Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker

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Originally by: GM Grimmi

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[...]

3. You may not use your capital shipFs attributes to gain any sort of advantage over other players while in high security space.

GM Grimmi
Lead Game Master

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im very happy you changed your mind on this! Removing the Veldnaught from empire is to destroy something unique in EVE!

However, the above point is so wide open that Chribba wont be able to mine in it if interpreted in very strict sense!

Attributes. What about taking it out for mining and being equipped with ordinary armourplates, hardeners, shields etc. Will that be a reason for ban and movement? what about the number of Hitpoints the ship have?? etc. etc.

I agree that any cap should be moved upon offensive use, but the defensive and passive part of this rule regarding caps are highly unclear!

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Originally by: Kage Getsu

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Once again CCP caves to whining.

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Originally by: soldieroffortune 258

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"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"

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Originally by: 5pinDizzy

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Originally by: Roy Batty68

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Originally by: 5pinDizzy

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While I don't care too much either way whether Chribba keeps his dread in highsec.

What I find extremely disturbing is.

1. The mass amount of unwashed unthinking idiots who follow Chribba like a cult leader rather when a well respected player.

2. The chance that maybe they are only passing it off as an internal communication failure and they actually caved in to forum whining yet again.

If there is any truth in point 2 any faith I had in CCP's grand plan is dead and buried.

On the bright side if it's true, we can go necro the level 4 threadnaught and throw some more whinage and hits on it again till dev response!. Bring your 20 alts to post too!

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1) Chribba IS a well respected player, hence the turn out.

2) Anything you disagree with is labeled a whine. I think of it as more the playerbase letting CCP know how they feel about player made content getting tossed out with the wash. So apparently you do care (and oppose the idea of him having a dread in hisec), otherwise you wouldn't have called it a whine.

3) What the hell was it hurting? The veldnaught making certain posters feel inadequate or something? It's like complaining about the guy who has the luxury yacht. You say you don't care, but you do care about other people caring? WTH?

4) Quit being a nerd. Just because you don't have strong feelings about a particular subject doesn't mean that those who do are whining and crying. And there's quite a bit of difference about a piece of game content which doesn't affect anyone other than it being a status symbol of sorts compared to the debates about other game mechanics WHICH DO AFFECT TONS OF PEOPLE.


I think you're just being ****y for the sake of it.

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I am not Jealous of people who want to have their capital ship placed in a particular system that can't do anything useful other then let them wave it around outside the station like a big wang to wow the noobs.

I am jealous of :

1. People with Titans. (although to be honest too much responsibility so maybe no.)

2. People with 100 million skillpoints. (yes please, do want. )

What I DO care about is I think CCP are simply backtracking through pressure, and it's looking all too common.

1. Suicide nerf - Caved in through pressure.

2. Nanonerf - Balance test removed from test server and under revision through player pressure.

3. Now this as well apparently.

I hope I'm wrong but CCP are looking pretty spineless from where I'm sitting at the moment.

If I really cared about changing this situation then it's hard to remove the dreadnaught without nerfing Chribba, I mean you could make it more official and award him a unique ship possibly a dreadnaught variant for service to the eve comminity. like the ships awarded in tournaments, but I wouldn't even want to begin how you'd make fair judgement and decisions on who and why someone deserves something like that when it's not clear cut winners like an eve tournaments.

Gives more weight to it then sloppy patching changes that left capitals stuck in highsec.

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Originally by: soldieroffortune 258

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"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"

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Quote:

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if you actually read the rules they put in place, then you would konw that it pretty much is a "unique" ship, any abuse of the capitals in high sec is disciplined strongly through use of 2 week ban AND the low sec boot, i dont think anyone who has them in high sec is goign to risk getting that ban stick

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Originally by: Tortun Nahme

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personally I'm very disappointed in thsi whole afrair, they mishandled the timetable/warning, but they compounded the folly by backpeddaling

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Originally by: CCP Oveur

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...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed

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Originally by: Haradgrim

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Edited by: Haradgrim on 28/08/2008 02:18:22
CCP HQ: Reykjavik, Iceland.

[August 27, 2008 06:42 GMT]

*On the back wall of GM Gimmi's office a red warning light starts to flash. A sign, bordered in caution tape, below it reads: "Threadnaught Alarm"*

Swiftly inputting a few quick keystrokes a new screen flashes open. As her eyes open wide and her body goes rigid in fear, GM Grimmi manages to hit the intercom button opening a channel to CCP Wrangler.

Grimmi: Wrangler, *sob*, our worst fears have come true, *sob* its a threadnaught and the author is....*sob*sob*cry*

Wrangler: Damn it, get a hold of yourself women! Who's the author?

Grimmi: Its....its....CHRIBBAA!!!!!

Wrangler: *sound of phone dropping and hitting the ground*...."oh dear God NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" .....pause.......*sounds of a now disheveled man trying to put himself back together* "Ok, Grimmi *audible shaking in his voice* call a meeting of all senior GMs and Devs, make 10 litres of coffee and see if you can track down Kieron.....we're going to need all the help we can get. God have mercy on us all"

Grimmi: *sob*sob*

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Originally by: Dheorl

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Originally by: Akita T

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yawn

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I never knew it was possible to stretch your ego THAT much in 1 post

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Originally by: Joss Sparq

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Originally by: Tortun Nahme

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personally I'm very disappointed in thsi whole afrair, they mishandled the timetable/warning, but they compounded the folly by backpeddaling

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So if someone does something which is perceived as wrong, they shouldn't make any amends for it? A ridiculous statement and a ridiculous sentiment in this case.

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Originally by: Djens

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About whining, CCP in my oppinion didn't cave in to whines, they let common sense rule, really it's that simple. As for people wanting their dual mwd ravens back or cruise-Kestrels, sure go on and whine but it wont change the fact that the whine is out of porportions unjustified. Quite the opposite of this matter.

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Originally by: Schalac

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Originally by: Djens

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About whining, CCP in my oppinion didn't cave in to whines, they let common sense rule, really it's that simple. As for people wanting their dual mwd ravens back or cruise-Kestrels, sure go on and whine but it wont change the fact that the whine is out of porportions unjustified. Quite the opposite of this matter.

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So, what then did they do? CHRIBBA has a capital ship in high sec. CCP said hey lets finally get all of the cap ships that are in high sec out of there and not let any more in. CHRIBBA went ape shit on the forums about how EVE is now dead and all of his lackeys turned it into a 30+ page post about how unfair it is that a ship that doesn't belong in high sec was removed from it. CCP caved in and then made up new "rules" on the spot and reversed the action they just took. That looks an awful lot like caving to me and it is not common sense, common sense would be the community saying,"well no one else is allowed to have cap ships in high sec so why should he" and supported CCP for removing it.

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Originally by: CCP Oveur

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...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed

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Originally by: Haradgrim

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I know its semantics but I'm pretty sure that Chribba articulately conveyed a request for an explanation given the situation he was faced. It was everyone else that went Ape Shit!

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Originally by: Akira2501

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Everyone’s so quick to condemn CCP… see they did the right thing after all.
Just a mistake.

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Quote:

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A dread in high-sec, as highlighted already, is all but invincible and is certainly not something that can realistically be suicide-ganked. If Chribba (or anyone) was providing minerals en massT to one half of a warring alliance then he would most definitely be conferring a PvP advantage by using it. There's a bigger picture to look at here beyond the "omg Chribba is so great why oh why must he have to suffer".

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Originally by: Juleko

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A dread in high-sec, as highlighted already, is all but invincible

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Originally by: Juleko

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Originally by: Haradgrim

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I know its semantics but I'm pretty sure that Chribba articulately conveyed a request for an explanation given the situation he was faced. It was everyone else that went Ape Shit!

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It's academic really, the vast majority of people who replied on here didn't even bother considering the bigger picture - they saw "Chribba nerfed" and hit Reply instantly.

Now we're back to a situation where capitals are in high-sec that are subject to ambiguous rules. One of which - the key one imo - is that they can't be used in PvP. What context are we talking about here? Saying "you can't pew-pew with your capital" is pretty black and white, but a capital in high-sec is practically invincible, and there are ways of using it outside of combat which would constitute PvP (e.g. mining for a warring alliance who can do nothing to stop it, etc).

I posted this in another thread but I believe it's relevant:

People often bring up mining as being a PvP mechanism and although I don't do it myself I agree that it is. Bringing a bigger and/or faster mining ship to a roid party than the guys you're competing with confers you an advantage over them - the difference being that with sufficient funds they can do likewise, with high-sec capitals being the exception. Ultimately being able to mine faster than other people means you can control the market accordingly, you can set mineral prices lower than pilots in regular high-sec ships can comfortably afford to compete with - and this most definitely is a form of PvP.

I've always liked the fact that in Eve there's been no glass ceiling in any aspect of the game - if you have sufficient ISK and/or sufficient time to train skills then you can be every bit as efficient/good as the next guy. Sadly capitals in high-sec (since they can no longer be built there) are essentially an unattainable Eve endgame+1 for a select few that no one else can hope to ever achieve. That, fundamentally, is a bad thing imo.

A dread in high-sec, as highlighted already, is all but invincible and is certainly not something that can realistically be suicide-ganked. If Chribba (or anyone) was providing minerals en massT to one half of a warring alliance then he would most definitely be conferring a PvP advantage by using it. There's a bigger picture to look at here beyond the "omg Chribba is so great why oh why must he have to suffer".

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Originally by: CCP Oveur

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...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed

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Originally by: Schalac

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Originally by: Djens

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About whining, CCP in my oppinion didn't cave in to whines, they let common sense rule, really it's that simple. As for people wanting their dual mwd ravens back or cruise-Kestrels, sure go on and whine but it wont change the fact that the whine is out of porportions unjustified. Quite the opposite of this matter.

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So, what then did they do? CHRIBBA has a capital ship in high sec. CCP said hey lets finally get all of the cap ships that are in high sec out of there and not let any more in. CHRIBBA went ape shit on the forums about how EVE is now dead and all of his lackeys turned it into a 30+ page post about how unfair it is that a ship that doesn't belong in high sec was removed from it. CCP caved in and then made up new "rules" on the spot and reversed the action they just took. That looks an awful lot like caving to me and it is not common sense, common sense would be the community saying,"well no one else is allowed to have cap ships in high sec so why should he" and supported CCP for removing it.

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Originally by: Djens

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Originally by: Schalac

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Originally by: Djens

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About whining, CCP in my oppinion didn't cave in to whines, they let common sense rule, really it's that simple. As for people wanting their dual mwd ravens back or cruise-Kestrels, sure go on and whine but it wont change the fact that the whine is out of porportions unjustified. Quite the opposite of this matter.

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So, what then did they do? CHRIBBA has a capital ship in high sec. CCP said hey lets finally get all of the cap ships that are in high sec out of there and not let any more in. CHRIBBA went ape shit on the forums about how EVE is now dead and all of his lackeys turned it into a 30+ page post about how unfair it is that a ship that doesn't belong in high sec was removed from it. CCP caved in and then made up new "rules" on the spot and reversed the action they just took. That looks an awful lot like caving to me and it is not common sense, common sense would be the community saying,"well no one else is allowed to have cap ships in high sec so why should he" and supported CCP for removing it.

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Common sense to me is not about being all out rational about what is fair and what is not. It's about knowing when an exception should be made. CCP made a poor decision NOT when bringing it back but when removing it. And for the record I don't care for who ever has the caps be it you or Chribba or anyone else for that matter.

So what about you, do you always prefer equality/fairness over uniqueness? If not what is your take on this one? It's not like the Veldnaught are threatening anyone (except asteroids maybe)

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Some people here REALLY need to google "grandfather clause"

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Originally by: CCP Oveur

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...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed

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Originally by: CCP Mitnal

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please don't make allegations about other people's sexuality, post in avoidance of the forum filter and especially not post derogatory comments about someone else's mother

Originally by: Tortun Nahme

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because a very small minority of players whined out loud enough for the jedi to hear it?
CCP has legitimate reasons for doing exatly what they did, had they given proper notification of intention instead of just ninja'ing it, i would have no problem with their actions.
However, the set a horrible precedent by even appearing to cave to any apparent favoritism by backpeddaling on this decision. There is no "legitimate" reason to allow "some" people to have cap ships in high sec while everyone else is forbidden.

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Originally by: Schalac

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Originally by: Djens

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Originally by: Schalac

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Originally by: Djens

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About whining, CCP in my oppinion didn't cave in to whines, they let common sense rule, really it's that simple. As for people wanting their dual mwd ravens back or cruise-Kestrels, sure go on and whine but it wont change the fact that the whine is out of porportions unjustified. Quite the opposite of this matter.

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So, what then did they do? CHRIBBA has a capital ship in high sec. CCP said hey lets finally get all of the cap ships that are in high sec out of there and not let any more in. CHRIBBA went ape shit on the forums about how EVE is now dead and all of his lackeys turned it into a 30+ page post about how unfair it is that a ship that doesn't belong in high sec was removed from it. CCP caved in and then made up new "rules" on the spot and reversed the action they just took. That looks an awful lot like caving to me and it is not common sense, common sense would be the community saying,"well no one else is allowed to have cap ships in high sec so why should he" and supported CCP for removing it.

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Common sense to me is not about being all out rational about what is fair and what is not. It's about knowing when an exception should be made. CCP made a poor decision NOT when bringing it back but when removing it. And for the record I don't care for who ever has the caps be it you or Chribba or anyone else for that matter.

So what about you, do you always prefer equality/fairness over uniqueness? If not what is your take on this one? It's not like the Veldnaught are threatening anyone (except asteroids maybe)

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I always prefer equality and fairness in video games. There are few things that I despise. First is rules applied to some and not others. Second is hackers/cheaters. Parrots that follow people around and hang on their every word like it is the word of god. Last is people that feel that because they have more levels/money/bigger guild or corp, they are "1337" and everyone should bow down to them and do everything they say because they have those things.

Can anyone here honestly say though that if anyone else made this thread it would of been looked at the same way? I truly believe if I was in CHRIBBAS shoes and made a post I would not have a capital ship back in my high sec hanger right now.

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Originally by: Schalac

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I always prefer equality and fairness in video games. There are few things that I despise. First is rules applied to some and not others. Second is hackers/cheaters. Parrots that follow people around and hang on their every word like it is the word of god. Last is people that feel that because they have more levels/money/bigger guild or corp, they are "1337" and everyone should bow down to them and do everything they say because they have those things.

Can anyone here honestly say though that if anyone else made this thread it would of been looked at the same way? I truly believe if I was in CHRIBBAS shoes and made a post I would not have a capital ship back in my high sec hanger right now.

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Originally by: Tortun Nahme

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Originally by: Joss Sparq

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Originally by: Tortun Nahme

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personally I'm very disappointed in thsi whole afrair, they mishandled the timetable/warning, but they compounded the folly by backpeddaling

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So if someone does something which is perceived as wrong, they shouldn't make any amends for it? A ridiculous statement and a ridiculous sentiment in this case.

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because a very small minority of players whined out loud enough for the jedi to hear it?
CCP has legitimate reasons for doing exatly what they did, had they given proper notification of intention instead of just ninja'ing it, i would have no problem with their actions.
However, the set a horrible precedent by even appearing to cave to any apparent favoritism by backpeddaling on this decision. There is no "legitimate" reason to allow "some" people to have cap ships in high sec while everyone else is forbidden.

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