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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
The Slayer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:10:00 -
[1651] - Quote
Shocked. |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
156
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:10:00 -
[1652] - Quote
Seen this all before. An incorrect punishment handed out because the developers didn't get a fix in time. Marketing over-correcting due to bad press. Mass revolt with threatened revenue streams and further bad press problems brings in management. Some backpedalling and quiet negotiations.
It all could have been avoided by doing something appropriate when that voice under the troll-bridge asks you who is clomp clomp clomping over their sandbox. |
Blawrf McTaggart
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1139
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:11:00 -
[1653] - Quote
dw guys we still own over 50% of all of the tech in the game |
ashley Eoner
18
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:11:00 -
[1654] - Quote
All I can say is....
HA HA
Keep crying it's amusing.
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Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
19
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:11:00 -
[1655] - Quote
Blawrf McTaggart wrote:one must ask what a world we have wrought when white hats are shat upon.
The 5 people involved were not white hats. They were grey hats. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1402
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:11:00 -
[1656] - Quote
Aryth wrote: As did I. They used to be. I guess not anymore though.
You talk like this time it's YOUR game that got ruined. And parody of the impossible, by your former big guy. I mean, even scripting this episode people would find it not believable. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Inspiration
Focused Radical Energy Engineering
27
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:12:00 -
[1657] - Quote
Xython wrote:Inspiration wrote:Arrgthepirate wrote:Inspiration wrote:Aryth wrote:CCP has now gone and nuked a ton of assets on our accounts. Meaning, we are losing wealth we had previous to this. Wow. But the message is clear. If you want to abuse something, you do not report it. As someone who tried to work with CCP, my advice to anyone in the future is. Don't. That is a pretty single sided view on the matter. If you had just proven the issue and not abuse it to no end, it would not been punished don't you think? And in some way I think goons got off light here. Remember the deal with moon goo being produced out of nothing (i forgot the details)? The players in corporations involved in that, all got banned! Scamming player is perfectly fine in this game, but NOT ALL scamming NPC so it seems. It would be good if CCP highlighted where the line is precisely. That way you would know for sure how far you can go! Nothing was produced from nothing. THey spent real isk to acquire assets. Get your facts right. I never said you produced something from nothing, you are mistaken me for someone else that run that argument. You did however gained excess LP that was convertible to goods and you did it by scamming the system. In this instance trough market manipulation (but not manipulating players), where with the pos example i think it was a bug with the effect of also flooding the market with stuff that realistically should not have been there in those quantities. SO before you accuse me of something, and I know your pissed right now, get your facts straight indeed! "excess LP" = something from nothing. Otherwise, it wouldn't be "excess", right?
That is one way to look at it, but its not producing which was the argument being made to me. |
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
19
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:12:00 -
[1658] - Quote
Time Funnel wrote:Oisin Sandovar wrote:Aryth wrote:CCP has now gone and nuked a ton of assets on our accounts. Meaning, we are losing wealth we had previous to this. Wow. But the message is clear. If you want to abuse something, you do not report it. As someone who tried to work with CCP, my advice to anyone in the future is. Don't. I think the message is really, file a bug report and don't exploit the bug/design flaw. Let me tell you what happens when you file a bug report: nothing. Some people abuse the system for a year, and then they deal with it after "too many" people find out about it. If only a few people know about it and exploit it it is no problem. Once the general population is aware of it, then it becomes a problem and then the exploiters have to find the next bug. Then don't complain when they take your stuff? Really, I'm sorry for their loses, but... Why not say CCP here's the situation....I'm about to blow up these ships...and....profit...!
Set the execution, but don't pull the trigger. |
Ghost Xray
Hedion University Amarr Empire
37
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:13:00 -
[1659] - Quote
Aryth wrote:
The more fair comparison, is to compare the CCP of today, with the CCP of years past. I am not trying to be all conspiracy theory here. But ever since they have gotten into bed with Sony, they seem to kneejerk much more readily to press. It's my belief that they are marketing driven now. A marketing department who doesn't understand the value of the sandbox, and just wants good press. Anything remotely negative gets you pounded. That is their right, but it's not the EVE many of us love.
CCP taking your ill gotten goods and a little extra sounds like a lite punishment to me. I expected some bannings. My guess is not getting banned is your reward for cooperating in the investigation. Plea bargaining and all.
I was never satisfied with the T20 incident, and that represents "old EvE". Maybe in "new EvE" things like that, and like this to some degree (I'll give you this was nothing compared to T20) will not be tolerated.
If you are planning on quitting because of this, I'd like to go on record with "Can I have your stuff"? |
Blawrf McTaggart
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1139
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:13:00 -
[1660] - Quote
Oisin Sandovar wrote:Blawrf McTaggart wrote:one must ask what a world we have wrought when white hats are shat upon.
The 5 people involved were not white hats. They were grey hats.
white, grey, they are but differing shades of brown when shat upon |
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Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1166
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:13:00 -
[1661] - Quote
ashley Eoner wrote:All I can say is....
HA HA
Keep crying it's amusing.
as predicted, the pubbies are gloating despite the fact that they are far from capable of pulling these kinds of things off a rogue goon |
Geertruida Zelle
Quantum Wake The Fendahlian Collective
17
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:13:00 -
[1662] - Quote
ok, some enterprising Goons did some homework and found a loophole and made some isk.- they didn't break the "law", they found a "legal loophole" and used it to their advantage.
Now its fine that CCP fix the loophole, but random seizure of assets is a step too far.
Shame on you CCP, you have done another poop in your own Sandpit. |
Ituhata
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:14:00 -
[1663] - Quote
Fuujin wrote:I hear if you fit a destroyer or battlecruiser for maximum dps, you can shoot people and blow them up in high security space before CONCORD gets there.
Why, if enough people do this they could even destroy entire freighters! CCP, please investigate and ban!
Poking my nose in to point out the difference in a carjacking by thugs and a multibillion dollar corporation in the news for swindling the (your country here-ican) people out of trillions of dollars due to an oversight in federal rules. Bad press and knee-jerk reactions.
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Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:14:00 -
[1664] - Quote
Really surprised CCP took negative action on this. Must have really pushed the embarassment button.
But I agree with the GOONs action. CCP is quite arrogant in ignoring reports of exploitable conditions.
I have reported how easily market conditions and averages can be exploited for years. I have watched other do so on a few billion ISK scale. And I admit I have tested my assumptions enough to see that it worked as I expected. Wasn't foolish enough to report it or continue given that I figured someone eventually do as the GOONs did - make it so obvious and grand CCP couldn't deny it.
In the meantime it was interesting how many EVE loyalists were willing to put on blinders. You could show them how it worked. But when you pointed to other areas of the market acting oddly - they tended to say CCP is on top of anything important and anyway that area of the market is too big to manipulate on any scale. They couldn't believe anyone had or would risk 100Bs ISK to manipulate 10-50% or more changes in market -- even when its was obvious that you couldn't lose ISK unless someone opposed you and was willing to lose big ISK doing so.
Unfortunately its now apparent that CCP itself took this show of loyalty by a small but significant fraction of players as partial proof that manipulation was not occurring and therefore not possible.
*** Contributing to the ease of manipulation of the EVE market is the lack of many RL constraints and differentiations such that the only realistic way to short circuit market price manipulation is to carry sale price with each item and then only include it in market data the first time its fitted to a ship. ****
Too many other times its impossible to tell -- retail from wholesale, buy orders (more a futures/wholesale market) from sell orders (at least items exists even if its not clearly going to enduser retail rather than wholesale). And what about all that loot with effectively zero manufacture cost and less labor than mining?
And of course I love how the CCP price warning suggests to noobs that the market average is necessarily a good retail price EVE wide when this might be a region which effectively produces wholesale with few retail sales. ROFLMAO -- lots of noobs are scared to place goods at higher levels for fear its a rules violation.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
358
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:14:00 -
[1665] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Aryth wrote: As did I. They used to be. I guess not anymore though.
You talk like this time it's YOUR game that got ruined. And parody of the impossible, by your former big guy. I mean, even scripting this episode people would find it not believable.
It's your game too. Would you not like to be able to engage at manipulation on this scale? |
Bridgette d'Iberville
DeadStar Marauders
24
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:14:00 -
[1666] - Quote
For the love of all that is GOOD!
T5 Cashout
Please tell me they let you keep the two Civilian Miners and the Miner I... Neut the bastards |
Cutter Isaacson
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
536
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 21:16:00 -
[1667] - Quote
Hmm, have we gone from "yay we are goons, we are awesome" to "oh dear we got caught and spanked" to "cheating should be ok because the mechanic was flawed" to "EVE is dying"? Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Werst Dendenahzees
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
18
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:17:00 -
[1668] - Quote
Oisin Sandovar wrote:Blawrf McTaggart wrote:one must ask what a world we have wrought when white hats are shat upon.
The 5 people involved were not white hats. They were grey hats.
By lashing out, CCP has just blackened their hats and souls with the darkest of infernal charcoal.
Pain will be dished out in due time. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
358
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 21:17:00 -
[1669] - Quote
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:For the love of all that is GOOD! T5 CashoutPlease tell me they let you keep the two Civilian Miners and the Miner I...
They did. Those were there as a troll incase people remember civ miner guy out there. I guess no one remembered him. |
The Slayer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:19:00 -
[1670] - Quote
CCP How many people who abused the Pax Amarria thing did you remove ISK from? Oh thats right none. |
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Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
205
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:19:00 -
[1671] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Hmm, have we gone from "yay we are goons, we are awesome" to "oh dear we got caught and spanked" to "cheating should be ok because the mechanic was flawed" to "EVE is dying"?
probably just a troll
I'll believe CCP fixed the problem when they say they fixed the problem. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
358
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 21:19:00 -
[1672] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Hmm, have we gone from "yay we are goons, we are awesome" to "oh dear we got caught and spanked" to "cheating should be ok because the mechanic was flawed" to "EVE is dying"?
No. Just that the game has changed a bit. Everyone will have their own opinion on if that is a good thing or not. Obviously I am biased but I have had this opinion every since they got neg-pressed into banning mittens. For something they clearly saw with their own eyes and ignored. |
Khergit Deserters
Gallente Federation
61
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:19:00 -
[1673] - Quote
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:Oisin Sandovar wrote:Blawrf McTaggart wrote:one must ask what a world we have wrought when white hats are shat upon.
The 5 people involved were not white hats. They were grey hats. By lashing out, CCP has just blackened their hats and souls with the darkest of infernal charcoal. Pain will be dished out in due time. Big girls don't cry. |
Werst Dendenahzees
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
18
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:21:00 -
[1674] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:Werst Dendenahzees wrote:Oisin Sandovar wrote:Blawrf McTaggart wrote:one must ask what a world we have wrought when white hats are shat upon.
The 5 people involved were not white hats. They were grey hats. By lashing out, CCP has just blackened their hats and souls with the darkest of infernal charcoal. Pain will be dished out in due time. Big girls don't cry.
It's not even a threat, it's a statement. |
Sizeof Void
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
260
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:23:00 -
[1675] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Sizeof Void wrote:Aryth wrote:The major point being. There is no incentive to report anything to CCP. You are far better off trying to get away with it quietly. Uh, no. And, just for the record, suggesting that players engage in this sort of behavior is a much more serious EULA violation - one which can get you slapped with a ban, not just a negative wallet. No matter how upset you might be, don't go there, Aryth. By me suggesting people are far better off trying to game the system quietly than overtly? There were no exploits here as far as I am concerned. CCP romping around siezing assets not even related to this clearly shows they feel differently. Playing the game to the limits of their design is now officially an exploit. This is bigger than this specific case. This is not the CCP of old. This was meant as advice, not criticism. You appear to be overly upset with CCP's response, so I'm just suggesting that you calm down before posting anything that might make matters worse.
When Helicity and Liang got banned last year, they both lost their temper in public and said a few things - true or not - that wasn't appreciated by CCP. They would have both done better to cool off and stay away from the keyboard for a couple of hours.
Note: I have a hot temper, too, and I end up deleting more of my responses than I actually post on the forums. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
224
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 21:23:00 -
[1676] - Quote
The Slayer wrote:CCP How many people who abused the Pax Amarria thing did you remove ISK from? Oh thats right none. I'd be interested to see if possible the total worth of the Pax Amarria issue as compared to this. |
Cutter Isaacson
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
536
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 21:23:00 -
[1677] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:Hmm, have we gone from "yay we are goons, we are awesome" to "oh dear we got caught and spanked" to "cheating should be ok because the mechanic was flawed" to "EVE is dying"? No. Just that the game has changed a bit. Everyone will have their own opinion on if that is a good thing or not. Obviously I am biased but I have had this opinion every since they got neg-pressed into banning mittens. For something they clearly saw with their own eyes and ignored.
If there are members of your alliance who have had items removed despite not having anything to do with this mess, then I have plenty of sympathy for them, but for those who knew exactly what they were doing I have none to spare. Bringing up past and unrelated incidents does nothing to strengthen your argument I'm afraid. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
526
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:25:00 -
[1678] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Hmm, have we gone from "yay we are goons, we are awesome" to "oh dear we got caught and spanked" to "cheating should be ok because the mechanic was flawed" to "EVE is dying"? We've gone from 'isn't this an awesome game where players control their own destinies in an open sandbox and this sort of thing is possible' to, 'hmmm, guess we were wrong about the whole open sandbox thing'.
Eve Online 2012: Winning is an exploit. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Cutter Isaacson
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
537
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:25:00 -
[1679] - Quote
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:Khergit Deserters wrote:Werst Dendenahzees wrote:Oisin Sandovar wrote:Blawrf McTaggart wrote:one must ask what a world we have wrought when white hats are shat upon.
The 5 people involved were not white hats. They were grey hats. By lashing out, CCP has just blackened their hats and souls with the darkest of infernal charcoal. Pain will be dished out in due time. Big girls don't cry. It's not even a threat, it's a statement.
That sort of statement is unwarranted and is a complete over reaction to the current situation. You would do well to take a self enforced break from gaming if you cannot distance yourself properly. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
469
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Posted - 2012.06.22 21:25:00 -
[1680] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:Hmm, have we gone from "yay we are goons, we are awesome" to "oh dear we got caught and spanked" to "cheating should be ok because the mechanic was flawed" to "EVE is dying"? No. Just that the game has changed a bit. Everyone will have their own opinion on if that is a good thing or not. Obviously I am biased but I have had this opinion every since they got neg-pressed into banning mittens. For something they clearly saw with their own eyes and ignored.
Right. CCP got in bed with Sony for DUST and it clearly changed their sensibilities. Sony doesn't do sandbox games, Sony does games with very strict rules. That concept and sandbox games don't mesh well.
Tyberius Franklin wrote:The Slayer wrote:CCP How many people who abused the Pax Amarria thing did you remove ISK from? Oh thats right none. I'd be interested to see if possible the total worth of the Pax Amarria issue as compared to this.
1.8 billion units of nocxium were produced from the Pax Amarria thing. |
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