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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1165
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:37:00 -
[1471] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:We know the end result, which is an ongoing investigation and ISK deletion.
yo
when does your eve sub lapse??? a rogue goon |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
467
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:40:00 -
[1472] - Quote
Inspiration wrote:corestwo wrote:Inspiration wrote:That and this thread really makes a case to remove insurance from the game altogether, as quite a few have arued over in the past. If someone wants insurance let the corp deal with it via mechanism or free market parties. Then if you loose ship after ship in pointless ways, your fee would go trough the roof or you just get plain rejected.
It would probably have the majority of the 0.0 folk go like cry baby, but it would return meaning to pvp victory and loss! Lets see how bad-ass those peeps really are :) Insurance had nothing to do with what we were doing, you know. Duh.....but if you look closely, the core of the whole matter is using market manipulation to get NPC favors! FW made it extra easy and lucrative as playing both sites gives extra control over the outcome! The same thing could be done with insurance to a lesser extend as that too is rooted in in-game market statistics.
It actually can't be, because once upon a time people did make many billions of isk (injecting new isk into the economy, which this didn't do) off of insurance fraud; CCP has since changed the formula. |
Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
188
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:41:00 -
[1473] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:We know the end result, which is an ongoing investigation and ISK deletion. How can you delete that which hasn't been created?
What are you, Socrates now?
The answer to your question would be: with the enter key. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
829
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:42:00 -
[1474] - Quote
Udonor wrote:I predict CCP will fail at addressing the real long term problem associated with this game flaw. I believe that up to now the GOONs have not wagged the whole economy on purpose. But when a group's monthly operations budget has 10s of trillions ISK and many of its members 100s of billions ISK its normal trade manipulations and for a lark experiments can impact large areas of EVE. And those days of disinterest in EVE wide control may be over.
The problem is that CCP has failed to provide anything meaningful for very wealthy groups to spend their ISK upon -- something MEANINGFUL to an endgame for EVE (when someone can be declared winner and then a fresh player scenario started). EVE is about flying ships to WIN.
*** I suggest player groups be allowed hostile stockmarket takeovers of NPC Empire corporations. That should absorb a good deal of excess liquid capital from huge null sec groups and I think factional warfare would become much more spontaneous.****
CCP should expect that any group with 100s of trillion in excess ISK will be bored with ordinary game play. They have nothing worthwhile to do with all that cash. As i understand it most long term Goons have already paid their subscriptions ahead for years. Ship losses are meaningless. If they all decide to start a fight and log off so their enemies can claim an empty victory...they can just buy new fleets and suffer only the pain of fitting the new ships.
Very few original or current EVE players have a lot of interest in endless SIMS soap opera about who has collected the most clothes....which unfortunately seems to be where CCP thinks EVE should go. Not that a few cool uniforms might not be nice for celebrating victories. Maybe CCP needs to think of branching off a 3rd political-social game for EVE-DUST watchers that is mostly just attached to EVE (gambling on battle outcomes etc) -- instead of changing the purpose of EVE. EVE has no endgame, nor should it. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Strong Black Woman
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:42:00 -
[1475] - Quote
Keep them reimbursable Tengu Fleets flying!! |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
537
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:42:00 -
[1476] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:We know the end result, which is an ongoing investigation and ISK deletion. How can you delete that which hasn't been created?
Ask Sreegs, hes the one who will be deleting the ISK that was not created.
Also, you can stop saying ISK wasnt created. Its a strawman arguement. Items were created. CCP cant delete the items (without backlash) because the buyers of the items were not all in on the abuse.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled **** poast. |
Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
154
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:42:00 -
[1477] - Quote
Delete created isk that wasn't created using exploits that arent actually exploits
Duh |
Lord Zim
906
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:43:00 -
[1478] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:We know the end result, which is an ongoing investigation and ISK deletion. How can you delete that which hasn't been created? What are you, Socrates now? The answer to your question would be: with the enter key. No isk was created, no isk can thus be deleted.
In fact, isk has already been deleted, last I heard to the tune of 500b or thereabouts. |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1571
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:43:00 -
[1479] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Aryth wrote:I suppose you could be referring to nullsec domination? Far beyond the scope of what I was talking about though. using our numbers to an advantage in a "massively multiplayer online game" is an exploit you heard it on eve-o first
This made me laugh. :D Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
188
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:44:00 -
[1480] - Quote
Dramaticus wrote:Delete created isk that wasn't created using exploits that arent actually exploits
Duh
Because it's not an exploit until CCP says it's an exploit and this isn't an exploit because CCP has not said it's an exploit.
Therefore CCP will not label it an exploit because it isn't one because they haven't labeled it as one. |
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Cutter Isaacson
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
529
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:44:00 -
[1481] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:We know the end result, which is an ongoing investigation and ISK deletion. How can you delete that which hasn't been created?
As has been stated rather clearly already, anyone found to have knowingly profited from the use or abuse of an exploit or other game defect can and will have any ISK removed from their wallets. No use crying about it. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
537
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:46:00 -
[1482] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Dramaticus wrote:Delete created isk that wasn't created using exploits that arent actually exploits
Duh Because it's not an exploit until CCP says it's an exploit and this isn't an exploit because CCP has not said it's an exploit. Therefore CCP will not label it an exploit because it isn't one because they haven't labeled it as one.
The word you pick for it is arbitrary, in this case "abuse" instead of "exploit". Again, the end result is the same no matter how much you try to rationalize. We now return you to your regularly scheduled **** poast. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3721
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:46:00 -
[1483] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Dramaticus wrote:Delete created isk that wasn't created using exploits that arent actually exploits
Duh Because it's not an exploit until CCP says it's an exploit and this isn't an exploit because CCP has not said it's an exploit. Therefore CCP will not label it an exploit because it isn't one because they haven't labeled it as one. I see we've reached the end of our discussion, if you're unable to comprehend an exploit as something with more meaning than "a thing CCP has said is an exploit". Ahh well, worth a shot. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
829
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:46:00 -
[1484] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Dramaticus wrote:Delete created isk that wasn't created using exploits that arent actually exploits
Duh Because it's not an exploit until CCP says it's an exploit and this isn't an exploit because CCP has not said it's an exploit. Therefore CCP will not label it an exploit because it isn't one because they haven't labeled it as one. At this point, it actually pretty much is. It just wasn't a week ago.
Why are you having such a hard time with this concept? Things change, rules change, and everyone adapts.
Except highsec carebears. They just whine that goons need to banned. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Lord Zim
906
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:47:00 -
[1485] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:We know the end result, which is an ongoing investigation and ISK deletion. How can you delete that which hasn't been created? Ask Sreegs, hes the one who will be deleting the ISK that was not created. Also, you can stop saying ISK wasnt created. Its a strawman arguement. Items were created. CCP cant delete the items (without backlash) because the buyers of the items were not all in on the abuse. So why should this be treated any differently from when people were insurance frauding like mad for isk, and actively adding isk to the economy? Why should this be treated any differently from when Pax Amarria was refinable into nocx? Why should this be treated any differently from when tracking titans were used to take over tech moons?
Or, were anyone banned for either of those activities? Got their ISK deleted? Any reactions at all? |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
537
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:48:00 -
[1486] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Dramaticus wrote:Delete created isk that wasn't created using exploits that arent actually exploits
Duh Because it's not an exploit until CCP says it's an exploit and this isn't an exploit because CCP has not said it's an exploit. Therefore CCP will not label it an exploit because it isn't one because they haven't labeled it as one. I see we've reached the end of our discussion, if you're unable to comprehend an exploit as something with more meaning than "a thing CCP has said is an exploit". Ahh well, worth a shot.
When mommy sends you to sit in the corner you are still being punished weather they call it "time out" or not. We now return you to your regularly scheduled **** poast. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
829
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:48:00 -
[1487] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:We know the end result, which is an ongoing investigation and ISK deletion. How can you delete that which hasn't been created? As has been stated rather clearly already, anyone found to have knowingly profited from the use or abuse of an exploit or other game defect can and will have any ISK removed from their wallets. No use crying about it. But they have not actually GOTTEN any isk yet. Only items that will be sold for ~5 trillion over the next few months. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Cutter Isaacson
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
529
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:48:00 -
[1488] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote: No isk was created, no isk can thus be deleted.
Lord Zim wrote: In fact, isk has already been deleted, last I heard to the tune of 500b or thereabouts.
I'm sorry, could you be a little more unclear? As to your assertion that only "created" ISK can be deleted, this is a fallacy. Any ISK obtained outside the rules of the game, or due to faulty mechanics that are knowingly abused can and will be deleted. To think otherwise is pure folly.
Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Lord Zim
906
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:49:00 -
[1489] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:As has been stated rather clearly already, anyone found to have knowingly profited from the use or abuse of an exploit or other game defect can and will have any ISK removed from their wallets. No use crying about it. Insurance fraud? Pax Amarria refinery? Tracking titans? Neutral logis? Neutral freighter alts? |
Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
190
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:49:00 -
[1490] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Dramaticus wrote:Delete created isk that wasn't created using exploits that arent actually exploits
Duh Because it's not an exploit until CCP says it's an exploit and this isn't an exploit because CCP has not said it's an exploit. Therefore CCP will not label it an exploit because it isn't one because they haven't labeled it as one. The word you pick for it is arbitrary, in this case "abuse" instead of "exploit". Again, the end result is the same no matter how much you try to rationalize.
I was being facetious.
CCP will not punish them because it wasn't an exploit, it was unintended use of game mechanics which is completely different I'm told. (the difference between these are huge, from what the goons tell me)
What CCP will do is 'fix the glitch'. Which is def going to result in some negative goon wallets. This won't be a punishment however because nothing wrong was done.
But Goons are cool with that, because it's not about personal gain or exploiting, it's about pointing out game flaws and helping CCP. |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3721
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:49:00 -
[1491] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote: So why should this be treated any differently from when people were insurance frauding like mad for isk, and actively adding isk to the economy? Why should this be treated any differently from when Pax Amarria was refinable into nocx? Why should this be treated any differently from when tracking titans were used to take over tech moons?
Or, were anyone banned for either of those activities? Got their ISK deleted? Any reactions at all?
It is relatively pointless to try to argue with cipher jones: as you have seen he's not really capable of responding with a reasoned argument or even understanding one. He will simply repeat until hopefully those long words go away. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
829
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:50:00 -
[1492] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Lord Zim wrote: No isk was created, no isk can thus be deleted.
Lord Zim wrote: In fact, isk has already been deleted, last I heard to the tune of 500b or thereabouts.
I'm sorry, could you be a little more unclear? As to your assertion that only "created" ISK can be deleted, this is a fallacy. Any ISK obtained outside the rules of the game, or due to faulty mechanics that are knowingly abused can and will be deleted. To think otherwise is pure folly. Never heard of it happening due to faulty mechanics. Can you provide an example? Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Lord Zim
906
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:52:00 -
[1493] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Lord Zim wrote: No isk was created, no isk can thus be deleted.
Lord Zim wrote: In fact, isk has already been deleted, last I heard to the tune of 500b or thereabouts.
I'm sorry, could you be a little more unclear? As to your assertion that only "created" ISK can be deleted, this is a fallacy. Any ISK obtained outside the rules of the game, or due to faulty mechanics that are knowingly abused can and will be deleted. To think otherwise is pure folly. You apparently didn't catch the 500b which were sunk to acquire the goods. That isk is no longer in the EVE economy.
And you apparently think this is different from insurance fraud, pax amarria refinery, etc etc etc. Oh, I know why, "goons" weren't the ones using those mechanics. |
Cutter Isaacson
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
529
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:52:00 -
[1494] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:We know the end result, which is an ongoing investigation and ISK deletion. How can you delete that which hasn't been created? As has been stated rather clearly already, anyone found to have knowingly profited from the use or abuse of an exploit or other game defect can and will have any ISK removed from their wallets. No use crying about it. But they have not actually GOTTEN any isk yet. Only items that will be sold for ~5 trillion over the next few months.
The fact that they have not yet sold those items is irrelevant. They have obtained items, whose combined value far exceeds the value of the items that were destroyed in order to obtain these ones. Thus they have already profited, and in doing so have unbalanced a system that, without CCP's direct intervention, will remain heavily damaged. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
350
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:53:00 -
[1495] - Quote
CCP is currently in the process of yanking tons of stuff from our accounts. Far beyond what was profited from. The sandbox indeed is not quite as sandboxy as we thought. |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
401
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:53:00 -
[1496] - Quote
WOW this thread still going on ? I thought arguments would be over by now and we are just waiting to see the after action report / blog from CCP.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
829
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:53:00 -
[1497] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:We know the end result, which is an ongoing investigation and ISK deletion. How can you delete that which hasn't been created? As has been stated rather clearly already, anyone found to have knowingly profited from the use or abuse of an exploit or other game defect can and will have any ISK removed from their wallets. No use crying about it. But they have not actually GOTTEN any isk yet. Only items that will be sold for ~5 trillion over the next few months. The fact that they have not yet sold those items is irrelevant. They have obtained items, whose combined value far exceeds the value of the items that were destroyed in order to obtain these ones. Thus they have already profited, and in doing so have unbalanced a system that, without CCP's direct intervention, will remain heavily damaged. Care to enumerate the damages, Mr. Carreon? Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
190
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:54:00 -
[1498] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:Lord Zim wrote: No isk was created, no isk can thus be deleted.
Lord Zim wrote: In fact, isk has already been deleted, last I heard to the tune of 500b or thereabouts.
I'm sorry, could you be a little more unclear? As to your assertion that only "created" ISK can be deleted, this is a fallacy. Any ISK obtained outside the rules of the game, or due to faulty mechanics that are knowingly abused can and will be deleted. To think otherwise is pure folly. Never heard of it happening due to faulty mechanics. Can you provide an example?
I have good news and bad news and more good news.
The good news is I have written a list of 64 examples of where this has happened.
The bad news is, discussing GM action is a bannable offense so I can't hook you up.
The more good news is, if you made mad LP store bank using this abuse/exploit/unintended but legitimate game mechanic you'll be able to soon serve as your own example! Talk about convenient. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1165
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:54:00 -
[1499] - Quote
Aryth wrote:CCP is currently in the process of yanking tons of stuff from our accounts. Far beyond what was profited from. The sandbox indeed is not quite as sandboxy as we thought.
welp a rogue goon |
Cutter Isaacson
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
529
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:54:00 -
[1500] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:Lord Zim wrote: No isk was created, no isk can thus be deleted.
Lord Zim wrote: In fact, isk has already been deleted, last I heard to the tune of 500b or thereabouts.
I'm sorry, could you be a little more unclear? As to your assertion that only "created" ISK can be deleted, this is a fallacy. Any ISK obtained outside the rules of the game, or due to faulty mechanics that are knowingly abused can and will be deleted. To think otherwise is pure folly. You apparently didn't catch the 500b which were sunk to acquire the goods. That isk is no longer in the EVE economy. And you apparently think this is different from insurance fraud, pax amarria refinery, etc etc etc. Oh, I know why, "goons" weren't the ones using those mechanics.
Did I mention insurance fraud? Or Pax Amarria? I do not believe that I did. All I said was that anyone caught knowingly abusing a flaw in the system can, and will, have that profit removed. Whether that is by putting wallets in the negative, or by removing items, such as in this case. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
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