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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2507
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Posted - 2012.06.23 14:53:00 -
[2371] - Quote
Paint wrote: So you have no kills. OK Edit - I will freely admit I don't pay much attention to wars but when I look at the war browser, unless I am missing something, which is completely possible, it shows no kills. But please do feel free to show me kills and losses from the war. Especially yours. This seems important to you.
Look at the "Goonswarm Federation vs Star Fraction" war in the online war browser. It comes an overview of the campaign so far.
(Starting 31/05/2012) Current results are The Star Fraction coalition 14b isk killed and 110 ships blown up. (winning) vs Goonswarm Federation with 1.7b isk killed and 26 ships blown up (losing).
Now sure, I've not scored a personal kill in this particular war (its not our only one I've got 302 kills vs the Amarrians btw) But then neither has Mittani (and it was his big griefing initiative I thought.) In fact the only goons I've actually in space since you declared war have been 3 cowardly stealth bombers who all instantly fled from me when I locked them with a tornado.
So here's the thing. When you declare war on an entity the onus is on you to come disrupt their operations and make yourselves a pain. What's happened here is that I countered your dec by inviting hisec trade hub raiders in for free as allowed in the 1.0 wardec system and you guys are getting farmed by hisec players. You haven't had the slightest impact on Star Fraction playstyle or our own war against Amarrian Faction warfare.
And its pretty hypocritical for you to somehow think I should be personally fighting Mittani's "griefing war" when your leader isn't.
Where is Mittani on the killboard? Hiding as usual.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom Epic Inferno Wardec Test, Sign up and shoot Goons for free! |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1596
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:53:00 -
[2372] - Quote
Benedic wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Benedic wrote:I find it quite disturbing that you can be punished by finding clever ways to profit from the rules of Eve. This was no exploit, it was using the code and systems the way they were designed. Who knows what the **** you can get punished for next considering if it benefits you in any way they may randomly yank back all your profits. I find it disturbing that you think you could exploit a system to print money and crash markets and we'd just be like "Oh haha those cards". We haven't punished anyone to date. We haven't even decided if we will but boy howdy are we well within our rights to do so and I'm just astounded that I even have to explain that. Like the other posters in goonfleet I take exception to this idea that it's 'exploiting' a system when CCP designed these systems to do -exactly- what was done. When you build a system to allow you to lower LP costs and so forth it's not really an exploitation to use those systems to profit. An exploitation is when you use a system in a way that it was not intended to be used or find a way to outright break the system and use it wrongly. None of that was done, all the systems were used in the way they were intended and combined in a way that generated profit. I will say that I'll await the results of your investigation eagerly. Maybe the people responsible have lied to us and they really 'exploited' a system but so far all they've done as best I can see is use the systems you built in ways you didn't see when designing them and that means the fault lies with CCP, not the players. THAT is the nature of a sandbox. If you can't stand by your own bad design but instead seek to punish the players for finding the flaws in your designs then you deserve to lose the playerbase. Stand by your own shoddy work, not fling blame at the players.
Not once has anyone blamed any players. We're well aware of what a sandbox is. We made it.
If you print isk and I take away what you printed then you're in the same state you were prior to printing. That is not punishment it is fixing the problem. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
406
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:53:00 -
[2373] - Quote
Imiarr Timshae wrote:Contribution to threadnaught :
The point that Screegs is missing is that all previous exploits have, to my knowledge, been covert. The ferrogel thing, rat manipulation (if any of you remember back that far) and the wormhole -1 tracking thing etc.
Instead CCP wandered in, posted a "We're doing this and this and this.", some very smart players saw that and did the math and used that to their advantage in a seriously massive way.
It might not be the definition of what CCP considers and exploit or what the capsuleer population considers legitimate gameplay.
CCP has basically wandered into town with a billboard strapped to them that reads "If you're very smart and can be bothered here's a set of systems we are implementing that can make you astronomically rich." and now they are removing those profits.
There was no such announcement of ferrogel etc. This is the same as profiting from Technetium of PI in my opinion. You announced it, they read it, they took advantage of it.
Just because CCP didn't smart up and see the impact of what they are implementing (protip: They never do) doesn't mean the playerbase didn't.
Just because CCP didn't hear the warnings amid all the other crap that fills the forums doesn't mean they're not going to correct it when it's abused to the tune of 5 trillion isk or whatever. If the warnings were even given. Do I believe Goons or do I believe CCP? I'm not going to sweat THAT decision for long. |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
69
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:53:00 -
[2374] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Holander Switzerland wrote:Man you guys messed up by telling them, they had no idea. You can tell because they just took everything FW away from the parties involved, regardless if it was earned beforehand. Either they don't have logs for this stuff, or they are just too incompetent to use them, or they don't care. We knew what was going on but it takes time to see scale. I'm going to warn you once not to misrepresent us in this thread and then I'm going to have your posting privileges revoked forever. Please do not interfere with our communication to our customers by inventing falsehoods.
You're doing this just fine yourself. |
Richard Dongue
Perkone Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2012.06.23 14:55:00 -
[2375] - Quote
Haquer wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Holander Switzerland wrote:Man you guys messed up by telling them, they had no idea. You can tell because they just took everything FW away from the parties involved, regardless if it was earned beforehand. Either they don't have logs for this stuff, or they are just too incompetent to use them, or they don't care. We knew what was going on but it takes time to see scale. I'm going to warn you once not to misrepresent us in this thread and then I'm going to have your posting privileges revoked forever. Please do not interfere with our communication to our customers by inventing falsehoods. You're doing this just fine yourself.
careful mate don't disagree with sreegs or you'll get your posting privileges revoked forever |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
69
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:55:00 -
[2376] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Benedic wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Benedic wrote:I find it quite disturbing that you can be punished by finding clever ways to profit from the rules of Eve. This was no exploit, it was using the code and systems the way they were designed. Who knows what the **** you can get punished for next considering if it benefits you in any way they may randomly yank back all your profits. I find it disturbing that you think you could exploit a system to print money and crash markets and we'd just be like "Oh haha those cards". We haven't punished anyone to date. We haven't even decided if we will but boy howdy are we well within our rights to do so and I'm just astounded that I even have to explain that. Like the other posters in goonfleet I take exception to this idea that it's 'exploiting' a system when CCP designed these systems to do -exactly- what was done. When you build a system to allow you to lower LP costs and so forth it's not really an exploitation to use those systems to profit. An exploitation is when you use a system in a way that it was not intended to be used or find a way to outright break the system and use it wrongly. None of that was done, all the systems were used in the way they were intended and combined in a way that generated profit. I will say that I'll await the results of your investigation eagerly. Maybe the people responsible have lied to us and they really 'exploited' a system but so far all they've done as best I can see is use the systems you built in ways you didn't see when designing them and that means the fault lies with CCP, not the players. THAT is the nature of a sandbox. If you can't stand by your own bad design but instead seek to punish the players for finding the flaws in your designs then you deserve to lose the playerbase. Stand by your own shoddy work, not fling blame at the players. Not once has anyone blamed any players. We're well aware of what a sandbox is. We made it. If you print isk and I take away what you printed then you're in the same state you were prior to printing. That is not punishment it is fixing the problem.
You didn't give back the assets/isk that they sunk into "printing isk" (that they got from other players so they, in effect, printed no isk whatsoever).
So no, they're not at the state prior to printing, and they were, in fact, punished. |
Robus Muvila
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:55:00 -
[2377] - Quote
This has been an absolutely fascinating arc of events and has made for wonderful reading. The first thing that comes to mind has been the knee jerk "Burned Earth" approach, as they started in regards to the Constantine Conspiracy, CCP is a big company, it takes time and planning to make anything happen, that's just how big companies work.
Hotfixes are drastic measures usually reserved for situations where there is something that is truely game breaking on a engine mechanics level, or it is a liability issue (Like deleting boot.ini ). What is essentially a balance issue (A huge one, but a balance issue none the less).
The sheer whammy and speed of this reaction combined with sicking CCP Sreegs on the forums in addition to the recent new rules about being mean to CCP staff on the forums to me looks less like a company dealing with a game exploit, and more like a company trying to save face on a PR level. They liked Burn Jita because although it involved upsetting a large section of the player base, they still had control of the situation, it was going to get out into the blogosphere and they could shape it and mould it to reflect positively on their product like pro's.
This wasn't a hack where players manipulated code or broke the game mechanics, this is a cut and dry case of the games playerbase being CONSIDERABLY smarter than the development team and a CCP that is clearly getting sick of disrespect from the playerbase.
I feel sorry for CCP in a way because they are in a clear Catch 22 situation here. If they rolled everything back, they're disturbing the sandbox, if they DIDN'T roll everything back Jade Constantine and Jester would have a god damn party about favouritism and goons being in CCP's pocket. They were damned if they did and they were damned if they didn't.
In the end regardless of what happens to the money the history of it all cannot be rolled back and cannot be hotfixed.
Goonswarm executed the scam of the century right under CCP's noses. And that is awesome, no matter what happens to the money.
And money is everything. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3733
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:56:00 -
[2378] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Holander Switzerland wrote:Man you guys messed up by telling them, they had no idea. You can tell because they just took everything FW away from the parties involved, regardless if it was earned beforehand. Either they don't have logs for this stuff, or they are just too incompetent to use them, or they don't care. We knew what was going on but it takes time to see scale. I'm going to warn you once not to misrepresent us in this thread and then I'm going to have your posting privileges revoked forever. Please do not interfere with our communication to our customers by inventing falsehoods. When you do the devblog on this, could you be clear what is/isn't allowed with the system, going forward? I think it's pretty clear that what was done here won't be allowed going forward (manipulating a price, then using that manipulated price), but as long as this mechanism is in the game there's going to be edge cases where you can make a profit essentially converting items into LP, though in much less crazy game-breaking ways. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1603
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:56:00 -
[2379] - Quote
Haquer wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Benedic wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Benedic wrote:I find it quite disturbing that you can be punished by finding clever ways to profit from the rules of Eve. This was no exploit, it was using the code and systems the way they were designed. Who knows what the **** you can get punished for next considering if it benefits you in any way they may randomly yank back all your profits. I find it disturbing that you think you could exploit a system to print money and crash markets and we'd just be like "Oh haha those cards". We haven't punished anyone to date. We haven't even decided if we will but boy howdy are we well within our rights to do so and I'm just astounded that I even have to explain that. Like the other posters in goonfleet I take exception to this idea that it's 'exploiting' a system when CCP designed these systems to do -exactly- what was done. When you build a system to allow you to lower LP costs and so forth it's not really an exploitation to use those systems to profit. An exploitation is when you use a system in a way that it was not intended to be used or find a way to outright break the system and use it wrongly. None of that was done, all the systems were used in the way they were intended and combined in a way that generated profit. I will say that I'll await the results of your investigation eagerly. Maybe the people responsible have lied to us and they really 'exploited' a system but so far all they've done as best I can see is use the systems you built in ways you didn't see when designing them and that means the fault lies with CCP, not the players. THAT is the nature of a sandbox. If you can't stand by your own bad design but instead seek to punish the players for finding the flaws in your designs then you deserve to lose the playerbase. Stand by your own shoddy work, not fling blame at the players. Not once has anyone blamed any players. We're well aware of what a sandbox is. We made it. If you print isk and I take away what you printed then you're in the same state you were prior to printing. That is not punishment it is fixing the problem. You didn't give back the assets/isk that they sunk into "printing isk" (that they got from other players so they, in effect, printed no isk whatsoever). So no, they're not at the state prior to printing, and they were, in fact, punished.
and you're not qualified to discuss the matter because anything you type is hearsay "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
70
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:58:00 -
[2380] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:and you're not qualified to discuss the matter because anything you type is hearsay
Oh damn son, you got me there.
Pack it in boys, the things that we heard straight from the people this happened to is hearsay.
We're finished. End of Goonswarm. |
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Tomytronic
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
184
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:58:00 -
[2381] - Quote
Hey Jade, how's the 8.7b isk doing that you made from this? Playing both sides of the argument doesn't do much for your respectability you know. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1603
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:58:00 -
[2382] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Holander Switzerland wrote:Man you guys messed up by telling them, they had no idea. You can tell because they just took everything FW away from the parties involved, regardless if it was earned beforehand. Either they don't have logs for this stuff, or they are just too incompetent to use them, or they don't care. We knew what was going on but it takes time to see scale. I'm going to warn you once not to misrepresent us in this thread and then I'm going to have your posting privileges revoked forever. Please do not interfere with our communication to our customers by inventing falsehoods. When you do the devblog on this, could you be clear what is/isn't allowed with the system, going forward? I think it's pretty clear that what was done here won't be allowed going forward (manipulating a price, then using that manipulated price), but as long as this mechanism is in the game there's going to be edge cases where you can make a profit essentially converting items into LP, though in much less crazy game-breaking ways.
You know as well as I do that I can't conceive of every potential future scenario to clearly lay out the lines and requesting that is really bad forum lawyering. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Andrea Roche
State War Academy Caldari State
105
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:59:00 -
[2383] - Quote
Haquer wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Benedic wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Benedic wrote:I find it quite disturbing that you can be punished by finding clever ways to profit from the rules of Eve. This was no exploit, it was using the code and systems the way they were designed. Who knows what the **** you can get punished for next considering if it benefits you in any way they may randomly yank back all your profits. I find it disturbing that you think you could exploit a system to print money and crash markets and we'd just be like "Oh haha those cards". We haven't punished anyone to date. We haven't even decided if we will but boy howdy are we well within our rights to do so and I'm just astounded that I even have to explain that. Like the other posters in goonfleet I take exception to this idea that it's 'exploiting' a system when CCP designed these systems to do -exactly- what was done. When you build a system to allow you to lower LP costs and so forth it's not really an exploitation to use those systems to profit. An exploitation is when you use a system in a way that it was not intended to be used or find a way to outright break the system and use it wrongly. None of that was done, all the systems were used in the way they were intended and combined in a way that generated profit. I will say that I'll await the results of your investigation eagerly. Maybe the people responsible have lied to us and they really 'exploited' a system but so far all they've done as best I can see is use the systems you built in ways you didn't see when designing them and that means the fault lies with CCP, not the players. THAT is the nature of a sandbox. If you can't stand by your own bad design but instead seek to punish the players for finding the flaws in your designs then you deserve to lose the playerbase. Stand by your own shoddy work, not fling blame at the players. Not once has anyone blamed any players. We're well aware of what a sandbox is. We made it. If you print isk and I take away what you printed then you're in the same state you were prior to printing. That is not punishment it is fixing the problem. You didn't give back the assets/isk that they sunk into "printing isk" (that they got from other players so they, in effect, printed no isk whatsoever). So no, they're not at the state prior to printing, and they were, in fact, punished.
when CCP nerfed the sanctums and all the billions spend per alliance of upgrades of systems, they did not give anything back either. Nothing new there, regarding investments. So this completelly destroys your argument. |
Tomytronic
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
184
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:59:00 -
[2384] - Quote
Shouldn't the PR team be doing the communications here? |
Holander Switzerland
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
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Posted - 2012.06.23 14:59:00 -
[2385] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Holander Switzerland wrote:Man you guys messed up by telling them, they had no idea. You can tell because they just took everything FW away from the parties involved, regardless if it was earned beforehand. Either they don't have logs for this stuff, or they are just too incompetent to use them, or they don't care. We knew what was going on but it takes time to see scale. I'm going to warn you once not to misrepresent us in this thread and then I'm going to have your posting privileges revoked forever. Please do not interfere with our communication to our customers by inventing falsehoods.
Could you look at my previous posts in the thread about what is and isn't considered an exploit by CCP so I don't accidentally stumble across bad coding and end up banned? |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
202
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:59:00 -
[2386] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Enaris Kerle wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:By that standard the ferrogel exploit was also within the parameters. I don't know why this seems to not be sinking in. All exploits were programmed. The difference is that all of the components of this alleged exploit were working exactly as designed. You've always been able to manipulate the market. Shooting ships to get LP for the value of their cargo was what was stated on the devblog regarding the FW changes. So was upgrading the FW systems with LP to get lower prices from the LP store. The only thing that wasn't intended was a combination of all of these factors. This is entirely different from duping ferrogel, where it was never designed you could react stuff without using the inputs. It's closer to the insurance fraud scheme, where a working design (shoot ship, get insurance payout) was "abused" because you got more than the ship was worth. If we make a correction it clearly wasn't what we intended. You're not manipulating the price so much as taking advantage of time lapses in the calculation of value which pins a different currency to a seldom-changing somewhat arbitrary number that you can set. did CCP intend ship insurance to form a price bottom for minerals?
guess they did not, as insurance payout calculations were reworked to prevent such a thing from happening again...
An obviously flawed game mechanic that had massive effects on the mineral market, injected huge amounts of ISK into the economy and was exploited on a truly industrial scale (too lazy to dig up old numbers, Kazuo alone destroyed a few thousand battleships iirc) - but resulted in absolutely no backlash against the involved players.
Winter 2009/Spring 2010 was probably still before your time at CCP but until now we had no indication from CCP that their approach to balance "sandbox" vs "impact on game economy" had changed.
Whatever action you decide to take, please make sure that we leave this whole affair with a clearer understanding of what is acceptable vs what is considered an exploit.
The old precedents don't seem to give reliable guidance anymore. |
David Carel
Perkone Caldari State
260
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:01:00 -
[2387] - Quote
Tomytronic wrote:Hey Jade, how's the 8.7b isk doing that you made from this? Playing both sides of the argument doesn't do much for your respectability you know.
Sick burrrrrrrrrrrrn |
Mechaet
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:01:00 -
[2388] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Benedic wrote:I find it quite disturbing that you can be punished by finding clever ways to profit from the rules of Eve. This was no exploit, it was using the code and systems the way they were designed. Who knows what the **** you can get punished for next considering if it benefits you in any way they may randomly yank back all your profits. I find it disturbing that you think you could exploit a system to print money and crash markets and we'd just be like "Oh haha those cards". We haven't punished anyone to date. We haven't even decided if we will but boy howdy are we well within our rights to do so and I'm just astounded that I even have to explain that. Some of us are watching with bated breath to see how this turns out. Are we going to have to wait until Monday for an outcome?
Personally speaking, I get what you're saying. Any other game developer would have come in and swung the banhammer far and wide a long time ago citing the repeated abuse of other players, the scamming, and the general bad nature of the people who make up Goonswarm (when operating in concert). Any other game developer would look at the money and item trail as it exists now a week plus after this all went down, and throw up their hands and say reversal was impossible, and ban the accounts that profited most from this. Any other game developer wouldn't have a bunch of players wondering WHY they would even consider punishing for this.
I'd consider (and I can't be alone in this) that punishment of the guys who went and pulled this off would be sandbox-breaking. There simply wasn't any exploitation done. A developer decided to introduce a reward calculation into the game that was reliant on a number that the players determined. It cannot be unforeseeable by the development team how this would turn out, so I have to assume they thought the playerbase too stupid to use that to their advantage. And by and large, they are right. Look at this thread. Why on earth anyone would ever use a number the players determined for the sizing of a reward handed out by "the game", in this game, is beyond me. The playerbase of this game is entirely focused on the numbers. They've filled in the math for a great number of mechanics that have never been explained in detail by experimenting with the mechanics and using the outcome to determine the math behind it. Hell, a lot of players refer to Eve as "Speadsheets Online". The simple fact that a developer chose to use a number that could be manipulated by the playerbase in a calculation for handing out rewards was a bad decision, and instead of punishment I'd much rather the developers use this as a horror story to prevent other developers from making a bad decision like this one in the future.
Nothing was duplicated, nothing was buffer-overrun, nothing was endlessly repeated via an automated macro bot. People simply figured out the math behind (as this playerbase is known to do), decided they could manipulate the outcome to their advantage via in-game, built-in, previously-approved mechanics, and did so (as this playerbase is known to do). Is the scale a bit daunting? Well, yes. And I understand the sensitivity to that. But don't punish the players for something that is rightly a fault of a developer who has hopefully learned an important lesson here and will code for the game a bit better from here on in and avoid a recurrence of this in the future. There simply isn't a cause to act against the playerbase for this and doing so would herald the end of the sandbox we all love. The sandbox where ill-gotten gains from actual developer manipulation was allowed to stand. The sandbox where people duped ferrogel into existence out of thin air for months and the gains were allowed to stand. The sandbox where Jita Burns happened and the developers gushed about how emergent the gameplay was. That's the sandbox I log in for, the sandbox I have been playing in for 8 years, the sandbox that contains the only MMO I've ever played consistently for any period of time and I'd think that a large portion of the playerbase would also feel the same way as I do. Although I've been playing for 8 years now, I've only been in Goonswarm for the last 16 months. Not all of us have been Goons since day one, some of us got there a bit late.
So while the players in here and their forum alts are screaming for you to break the sandbox, while some goons are in here taunting you to break the sandbox, and while some people are in here gloating about how the sandbox was exploited, I'm pleading with you to see this from a long-term-player's perspective (one you used to share when you were a player) and declare Business As Usual In The Sandbox, Sorry About That Math - It's Fixed. |
Prop Wash
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
50
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:02:00 -
[2389] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:
and you're not qualified to discuss the matter because anything you type is hearsay
Ok cool so why don't you just close this thread then |
Blawrf McTaggart
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1151
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:03:00 -
[2390] - Quote
that's certainly a post |
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Maggie Maggie
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:04:00 -
[2391] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Comparing removing the manipulated assets of a small number of people to a complete redesign of the game may just win the prize.
Hear me out. While I am a goon and of course I do feel that a member of my tribe is under attack, I'm speaking as a player.
EVE has always been an open sandbox where players are allowed and encouraged to do things that materially affect the game. That is the one thing that sets EVE apart from every other MMO. There are other spaceship games. There are other games with a functioning market. There are other games where clever players do better than dumb people.
EVE has always been an open sandbox. If a player is afraid to experiment and push the game in new directions for fear that, should they win too big, they will lose everything, then that is not an open sandbox.
EVE has always been an open sandbox. If that is no longer the case, that constitues a complete redesign. Please don't take that first step. I like the game how it is. |
Dreiden Kisada
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:04:00 -
[2392] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: Not once has anyone blamed any players. We're well aware of what a sandbox is. We made it.
If you print isk and I take away what you printed then you're in the same state you were prior to printing. That is not punishment it is fixing the problem.
CCP Sreegs wrote: By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch.
Using terms like Abuse and Glitch when you're talking about a game mechanic designed into the game by you guys sounds like you're blaming the players. Sounds a lot like it actually.
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Prop Wash
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
50
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:04:00 -
[2393] - Quote
like what is even going to be the purpose of this thread if when anyone actually tries to discuss the topic of the thread we have someone with an official CCP title saying "you don't know what you're talking about get out," what could the purpose of this thread be besides inciting conflict between CCP employees and EVE players |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1603
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:04:00 -
[2394] - Quote
Prop Wash wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:
and you're not qualified to discuss the matter because anything you type is hearsay
Ok cool so why don't you just close this thread then
ugh you've called my bluff I can't close the thread :( "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3733
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:05:00 -
[2395] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: You know as well as I do that I can't conceive of every potential future scenario to clearly lay out the lines and requesting that is really bad forum lawyering.
I'm not asking you to lay down rules you'll be held to, and I'm fully aware that if you made a general "this is allowed" statement for something and then I found a way to generate absurd amounts of LP from it that you'd look poorly on it and trying to rules-lawyer my way out of it wouldn't work. I'm not trying to trick you or anything or ask you do it here since I'm sure this requires a lot of thought, I'm just genuinely interested in what will generally be allowed/not allowed going forward. |
Sister Evian
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:05:00 -
[2396] - Quote
Ban Goons and let the other 350,000 people enjoy the game ....
Maybe losing to BoB so many times has finally got to them. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1612
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:06:00 -
[2397] - Quote
Maggie Maggie wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Comparing removing the manipulated assets of a small number of people to a complete redesign of the game may just win the prize. Hear me out. While I am a goon and of course I do feel that a member of my tribe is under attack, I'm speaking as a player. EVE has always been an open sandbox where players are allowed and encouraged to do things that materially affect the game. That is the one thing that sets EVE apart from every other MMO. There are other spaceship games. There are other games with a functioning market. There are other games where clever players do better than dumb people. EVE has always been an open sandbox. If a player is afraid to experiment and push the game in new directions for fear that, should they win too big, they will lose everything, then that is not an open sandbox. EVE has always been an open sandbox. If that is no longer the case, that constitues a complete redesign. Please don't take that first step. I like the game how it is.
When do we get to the part where we stop pretending that a gap in the timing of value calculation (programming) wasn't what was being taken advantage of here? This wasn't just market manipulation it was taking advantage of a flaw in the code. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Prop Wash
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
50
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:06:00 -
[2398] - Quote
and let me just emphasize that "official title" part because this is pretty aggressive, confrontational behavior from someone whose every post comes with the authority of CCP itself, like we're in pretty dire straits if everyone at CCP is currently as wound up about this as you are |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1612
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:07:00 -
[2399] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: You know as well as I do that I can't conceive of every potential future scenario to clearly lay out the lines and requesting that is really bad forum lawyering.
I'm not asking you to lay down rules you'll be held to, and I'm fully aware that if you made a general "this is allowed" statement for something and then I found a way to generate absurd amounts of LP from it that you'd look poorly on it and trying to rules-lawyer my way out of it wouldn't work. I'm not trying to trick you or anything or ask you do it here since I'm sure this requires a lot of thought, I'm just genuinely interested in what will generally be allowed/not allowed going forward.
I'll try to give some guidance in the blog once the investigation's done but what you're asking for can be a bit difficult. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1172
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:07:00 -
[2400] - Quote
Sister Evian wrote:Ban Goons and let the other 350,000 people enjoy the game ....
Maybe losing to BoB so many times has finally got to them.
is this a really weak attempt at a troll or do you really think we lost to BoB so many times by disbanding their alliance and defeating every respawn since?
also lol @ "ban all the goons" a rogue goon |
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