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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
114
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Posted - 2012.06.23 17:42:00 -
[2671] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:
****. I wish I had a job were I could **** up twice, keep my job, and be toasted for it.
Become a tax auditor, or a senior member of management.
Non Nobis Domine Non Nobis Sed Nomine Tua Da Na Glorium |
Ariel Marquette
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.06.23 17:43:00 -
[2672] - Quote
Perhaps the investigation should last until the winter expansion is due. CCP could then launch the "No More Goons" expansion. It would really be the greatest release in years. |
Ariel Marquette
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.06.23 17:44:00 -
[2673] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Xython wrote:RAP ACTION HERO wrote:one day goons are going to cure cancer And the publords will ***** at us for causing a population crisis. What's funny is that in certain pubs, being a goon gets your face punched in. And as Lord of the Pubs, I hereby end this post by hoisting a pint of fine, brown ale to the devs. ****. I wish I had a job were I could **** up twice, keep my job, and be toasted for it.
Any government job should do. As a bonus, you won't be expected to produce anything of value.
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Tear Miner
Republic University Minmatar Republic
138
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Posted - 2012.06.23 17:45:00 -
[2674] - Quote
I've clicked the blue dev button so many times. The rest of us should just stop posting. Sreegs pretty much /thread'd this forum thread like 50x.
I find it hilarious there's this much butthurt over this problem. It seems pretty simple at this point, if you don't understand, maybe you should just take yourself out of the gene pool. Although playing Eve usually proves that case already true |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
148
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Posted - 2012.06.23 17:45:00 -
[2675] - Quote
Holander Switzerland wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:
I already addressed that. Please do not twist my statements. I'm not part of your propaganda campaign and won't allow it to interfere with our official communications to our customers.
Alright, I will not "twist" your words any longer, I will just state that they are nothing but words on a forum.
I think you just made his point for him actually
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Nakkano
Internet Space Pimps
1
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Posted - 2012.06.23 17:46:00 -
[2676] - Quote
Well done Goons. This game needs you for exactly this reason.. pushing the boundary of the sandbox environment. Breaking all the things that were never considered. So in a way this is a good deed, although there will be a penalty most likely, you must carry on and continue doing what you do.
And to be fair, punishing the goons wallet will hurt them yes, but they are not the only ones who have benefited here. Everyone with buy orders of minmatar FW items soaking up these item dumps has benefited greatly as well with the price rebound after this event. So really the ones hurt are those that were competing to sell items while Goons crashed the markets, while buyers made bank. A mixed bag of casualties and winners.
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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
475
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Posted - 2012.06.23 17:47:00 -
[2677] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:corestwo wrote:This would own. In a world where frigates are top dog, goons rule the universe. Don't know the swarms own history then? Goons used to do exactly that against BoB with newb ships. There is the problem though of no one actually having the isk to start an alliance, however...
No, I don't just happen to be a goon who's played since 2006, including during the period when BoB thought invading syndicate was significant, so I'm totally unfamiliar with our tactics at the time. CCP no longer respects its sandbox. Thanks, Sony. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
115
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 17:48:00 -
[2678] - Quote
Ariel Marquette wrote:Perhaps the investigation should last until the winter expansion is due. CCP could then launch the "No More Goons" expansion. It would really be the greatest release in years.
Only if they did away with alliances all together and gave corps a hard limit of 50 players. That would be fun to watch.
Non Nobis Domine Non Nobis Sed Nomine Tua Da Na Glorium |
Geoscape
35
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Posted - 2012.06.23 17:49:00 -
[2679] - Quote
Wow what a shitstorm. |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
951
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Posted - 2012.06.23 17:51:00 -
[2680] - Quote
One thing to take from this is to make sure if you do something like this to prove a point, make sure you do it on an alt, or at the very least keep good accounting notes. |
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
29
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Posted - 2012.06.23 17:54:00 -
[2681] - Quote
What I take away from this is that some people spend too much time playing Eve, and that as soon as you start breaking out the spreadsheet to work out how best to take advantage of an exploit, you might as well go and shoot yourself. |
Powers Sa
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
232
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Posted - 2012.06.23 17:57:00 -
[2682] - Quote
Kazanir wrote:Kazanir wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:When do we get to the part where we stop pretending that a gap in the timing of value calculation (programming) wasn't what was being taken advantage of here? This wasn't just market manipulation it was taking advantage of a flaw in the code. That is absolutely not true, and to people who DO understand the mechanic it kind of calls into question whether you understand what you are talking about. The mechanic involved has nothing to do with timing or a "flaw" in the code. The system worked precisely as it was designed to. I'll make a larger post explaining it, but I wanted to put this out there first. To expand on this: The problem here had nothing to do with timing. It had to do with items that have no market volume, because they are useless, and yet are available from the Faction Warfare store. For example: Let's say there is an item, which I'll call 'Faction Warfare Boondoggle 44-z0r' for the sake of simplicity. This item has literally no use in the game except allowing the pilot who has it fitted to always efficiently complete every z0r chain he sees. Because few people care about this ability, the market price of this item languishes around 5 million ISK, with about 100 of them actually being traded per month. The Faction Warfare Boondoggle 44-z0r, meanwhile, is available from LP stores for 5 million ISK and 5000 LP. This makes it extremely unprofitable to buy with LP. But, now let's say that I take advantage of the item's low market volume to increase its average price. I do this by buying 5,000 of the 44-z0r Boondoggle (from the LP store, naturally), putting them on the market for 500M ISK apiece, and then buying out my own sell order. This costs me a tiny amount of ISK in the form of broker fees, as well as 25B ISK to get the material initially. But now the average price of that item is just under 500M ISK, since my own sales (to myself) utterly dominate the normal market volume of the Boondoggle in question. Now all of a sudden the worth of this item is 500M ISK. That means that for each Boondoggle I blow up, I get 50,000 LP. Basically I can now buy 50,000 LP for the cost of 5M ISK and 5,000 LP invested. (This is 111.11 ISK per LP, right around the actual value cited in Aryth's article.) Now then, what is the takeaway from my explanation? The takeaway is that there is no timing issue like Sreegs is saying. The market value of that item isn't affected by me repeatedly blowing it up for profit. It still has no use and it still isn't being sold on the market. I couldn't do this to a normal item, because the sales volume on the normal market would make my attempt at manipulation invisible. This is the key point. This doesn't depend on timing -- it doesn't matter when CCP updates their internal price index, because the average market price of this item is going to remain around 500M ISK. The market won't bring it back down because the market has no use for it. What we are looking at here is not a bug or a programming issue or an abuse of a timing problem. It is a design flaw. Using an average market index is a design flaw because it can be manipulated by players in the case of items that have no market volume. And I'm pretty sure that all of the players of EVE see a large difference between taking advantage of a design flaw and exploiting a programming bug (like the Ferrogel dupe.)
Game. Set.
z 0 r z 0 r z 0 r Match. |
15th Century Portrait
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2012.06.23 18:00:00 -
[2683] - Quote
i cannot believe how many of my drunken poasts made it through the dev pruning process. also. p.e.n.i.s.
i'm all for the suggestion to reboot eve where everyone starts from scratch. dibs on the name The Mittani |
Fix Lag
303
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Posted - 2012.06.23 18:00:00 -
[2684] - Quote
I don't get which part was against the rules, Sreegs, so maybe you can point it out for me: was it the part where they bought and sold things on the market or the part where they blew it up? |
Alain Kinsella
120
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Posted - 2012.06.23 18:01:00 -
[2685] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Vera Algaert wrote: if you ask CCP first, they will either say "no" or they will say "yes" and change their mind retroactively.
alliance tournament drama demonstrated the value & reliability of GM answers quite well.
Always get it by email, rather than in game. If CCP punishes you too harshly for following the GM's decision, there is, actually, precedent for legal action against CCP, regardless of the EULA, at that point. It hasn't been done specifically with video games, yet, but it has been done with aerospace contracts.
Braggs v. Linden Lab
Player discovers he can bid on land before it comes up in auction (manipulating a web page argument), gains several islands without bid fighting (timer started when he bid, expired and won before listed). LL bans, he sues (they are not cheap).
I believe they settled after a couple years, not sure of the outcome. The land was worthless by then anyway.
I may have come here from Myst Online, but that does not make me any less bloodthirsty than the average Eve player.
Just more subtle.
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Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
115
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 18:04:00 -
[2686] - Quote
Alain Kinsella wrote:
Braggs v. Linden Lab
Player discovers he can bid on land before it comes up in auction (manipulating a web page argument), gains several islands without bid fighting (timer started when he bid, expired and won before listed). LL bans, he sues (they are not cheap).
I believe they settled after a couple years, not sure of the outcome. The land was worthless by then anyway.
Was not aware of that one. Kudos.
Non Nobis Domine Non Nobis Sed Nomine Tua Da Na Glorium |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
429
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 18:12:00 -
[2687] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Ok I'm going to go watch The Footy. It's been a gas folks.
go spain!
but we all know de Germans will win in the end...
PLEX FOR PIZZA! -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
429
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 18:13:00 -
[2688] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:I don't get which part was against the rules, Sreegs, so maybe you can point it out for me: was it the part where they bought and sold things on the market or the part where they blew it up?
dont worry your pretty little head you dont have to understand... its not a rule for gameplay...
PLEX FOR PIZZA! -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Andrea Roche
State War Academy Caldari State
120
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Posted - 2012.06.23 18:13:00 -
[2689] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Ok I'm going to go watch The Footy. It's been a gas folks. go spain! but we all know de Germans will win in the end...
i love spain but i must admit thee germans are very likell to win at the end |
Reptail
SPACE LIGHT EMPIRE
1
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Posted - 2012.06.23 18:14:00 -
[2690] - Quote
The point is CCP is taking a wrong direction
and not only , they do not care about Eve
but i know some old devs do!,
Actually some ppl care about EvE
instead of crappy players who just **** in their panties! |
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Fix Lag
304
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Posted - 2012.06.23 18:16:00 -
[2691] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Fix Lag wrote:I don't get which part was against the rules, Sreegs, so maybe you can point it out for me: was it the part where they bought and sold things on the market or the part where they blew it up? dont worry your pretty little head you dont have to understand... its not a rule for gameplay...
"its not a rule for gameplay"
I'd like you to expand on this. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
117
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 18:17:00 -
[2692] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:
I'd like you to expand on this.
It's sort of like when you use it against goons it's an exploit, but if they use it against you, it's a feature.
Non Nobis Domine Non Nobis Sed Nomine Tua Da Na Glorium |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
429
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 18:19:00 -
[2693] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Fix Lag wrote:I don't get which part was against the rules, Sreegs, so maybe you can point it out for me: was it the part where they bought and sold things on the market or the part where they blew it up? dont worry your pretty little head you dont have to understand... its not a rule for gameplay... "its not a rule for gameplay" I'd like you to expand on this.
sorry i did not see a please and thank you in there...
how rude...
PLEX FOR PIZZA! -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Dodeca Hedron
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
7
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Posted - 2012.06.23 18:23:00 -
[2694] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:I don't get which part was against the rules, Sreegs, so maybe you can point it out for me: was it the part where they bought and sold things on the market or the part where they blew it up?
This is also the part where I am hung up on. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
148
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Posted - 2012.06.23 18:23:00 -
[2695] - Quote
Xython wrote:So I just woke up from a couple hour nap -- has there been any actual updates rather than CCP Sreegs wading back into the murky depths of this thread and promptly getting trolled?
Funny given that trolling itself is supposedly against the forum rules
but yeah THATS just funny imo
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
53
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Posted - 2012.06.23 18:28:00 -
[2696] - Quote
You have got to be joking me. What I get from this is Goons took a game mechanic that had vulnerabilities, took advantage of it to make mega bucks, and doesn't want to give it back, as well as anyone else that happen to have done it.
1) If the Isk doesn't throw the game totally out of balance, CCP should tell ya to keep it. If it does throw it out of balance the participants that got it, have to give it back! it's that simple, like it or lump it. It's CCP's Call.
2) Shut the heck up about it, and move on.
3) If ya don't shut up, CCP always has the ban hammer, Participants that did this can always unsubscribe.
Goon'es ya all sound like a bunch of GD drama queens. I personally hope CCP just buries this in your butts. You deserve it for following that idiot.
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Piranhas
The Milkmen Test Alliance Please Ignore
19
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Posted - 2012.06.23 18:28:00 -
[2697] - Quote
So if this isn't intended gameplay what about:
Titans - There is a lot of them
Supercarriers - ^ see above
Tech
T2 BPOs
Just to give a few good examples. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
148
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Posted - 2012.06.23 18:29:00 -
[2698] - Quote
Haquer wrote:Tallon Sylph wrote:Is Eve still a sandbox? I'm pretty confused right now. It is until you hit an arbitrary limit in which it's "abuse" and then get your assets seized.
Funny, just like everyone else lol
Or rather I should say, now the rules apply to you too. Kinda the same stuff you guys were screaming when you started doing thing BoB was doing that were afterwards said to be exploits. This is all very "not learning from history and doomed to repeat it" to me
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
SwahiliRapist Zuluabortion
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 18:31:00 -
[2699] - Quote
Aryth wrote:This is a story of what happens when the sandbox gets so complicated, it becomes possible for truly magical opportunities. Greed IS GoodWe went straight to plaid When Eve Online: Inferno was released, most people were underwhelmed. Missile effects were pretty, but functionally useless; ship balancing was mediocre; the inventory revamp was a complete disaster, and most people were simply wondering what the point of the whole thing was. There was even a revamp to Faction Warfare, an oft-maligned, unfun feature of the game. Most people wrote it off as CCP throwing a bone to the few subscribers who stuck around for that sort of thing. Most people are myopic. But not the Snip. Don't use ethnic stereotype slurs. -Guard bal. Occasionally you will see the odd forum poster that throws out wild conspiracy theories about shadowy figures controlling parts of the game, or in the case of the especially insane, Goons controlling the game. This has never been true...until now. As weGÇÖve said, in most ways, Inferno was a bust. But a throwaway blog about an obscure part of the upcoming faction warfare revamp was much more interesting than it seemed. A small group of market and game mechanics wizards sat in a channel, put their heads together and designed a theoretical exploit to game the system. It succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. The revamp to Faction Warfare in Inferno was the single biggest mistake CCP has ever made. It was bigger than guidance systems, which merely made us a couple of trillion isk. It was certainly bigger than deleting boot.ini, which merely cost CCP some bad press. It was possibly even bigger than Incarna, a potentially game ruining GÇÿexpansionGÇÖ *** cash grab. Simply put, Inferno was released with a way to destroy the value of missions. InfernoGÇÖs big design mistake was that it was released with a literal currency fountain, very nearly without limit. Unbeknownst to themselves, CCP had accidentally delved into the world of forex, providing a way to exchange one currency (isk) for another (LP) with only a few checks and balances built into the system. The original theory came about as many of the theories in the Snip. Don't use ethnic stereotype slurs. -Guard bal do: Aryth wondering what the implications of X may be if we did Y. Every theory in the collective is always vetted, and so, Mynnna went to work on a super spreadsheet. This sheet would end up breaking down every niche of FW into its components and checking them for leaks; much like everything in Spreadsheets Online, once created, the sheet had to be tested via running the numbers countless times. Luckily, they added up. It was time to wreck some pubby wallets :commissar: When CCP originally released their devblog on Inferno and revealed the formula they intended to use, we sat in shock. I immediately stated a phrase I would repeat many times: GÇ£/10000 will not save themGÇ¥. CCP made the assumption that rewarding a player 1/10th of the value of the playerGÇÖs kill at 1K ISK/LP, for a total of 10K ISK destroyed CCP Value/1 ISK reward, would prevent manipulation of the system. While this was an understandable mistake, it turned out to be several orders of magnitude off. We laid in wait. Much of what we believed to be true could not be tested on SISI. Patch day came and we immediately moved into action, enrolling alts into Minmatar FW & Amarr FW and moving freighters full of delicious zydrine/nocxium/megacyte into position. Goons had been invested heavily in minerals pre-patch, and with the massive recession all of EVE went into post CCP changes, Burn Jita, and Hulkageddon, we wanted to give them a way to cash out as well as get rich ourselves. Therefore, the test would start with a simple, yet hilarious murder of several innocent freighters full of extremely valuable highends. Freighter DeathThis also meant that we could cash out our hundreds of billions of ISK worth of minerals at prices far higher than on the market. For example, we cashed out Megacyte at 3300, Zydrine 1400, Nocxium at 900. So some of the very largest stockpiles of pre-drone nerf minerals no longer exists. Tying back into the mineral manipulation we have been engaging in. The test quickly became even bigger than anticipated because upon release, FW turned out to have a bug that rewarded LP for both dropped and exploded cargo, doubling the rewards. So we went to work, sending hundreds of billions of ISK worth of highend minerals to Yulai to be blown up. Why Yulai? Anyone enlisted in faction warfare gets shot at by faction police of the opposing factions. Yulai and its entire constellation are owned by CONCORD, which is neutral territory. Thus, both FW alts could move through peacefully. Also, Yulai has an GÇ£Inner CircleGÇ¥ station, which was just plain funny. How fitting that Yulai, once the most important system in Eve, finally becomes relevant again.
and you got more friends now? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1112
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 18:31:00 -
[2700] - Quote
Piranhas wrote:So if this isn't intended gameplay what about:
Titans - There is a lot of them Titans are rare, a major alliance might have one or two, some might even have as many as four titans.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
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