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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
469
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Posted - 2012.06.22 22:33:00 -
[1771] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Aryth wrote:It's more than that. To justify seizing everything, and even assets unreleated to FW, they have to be saying, using their own game mechanics, and the design they were repeatedly told was bad, is an exploit. That is what is so chilling about it.
This isn't the CCP of 2 years ago. Sonyfied CCP is not the CCP we know and love. They are something different now. It wasn't until it hit PCGamer they took actoin. The CCP of 2 years ago couldn't pay it's bank loan. The Dude wrote:Yes, Walter, you're right. There is an unspoken message here. It's "**** YOU" Are you saying they sold out?
Sounds like it. I'm inclined to agree, really. CCP no longer respects its sandbox. Thanks, Sony. |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:34:00 -
[1772] - Quote
Welp. This is a little more than ridiculous. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1591
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:34:00 -
[1773] - Quote
Lol - well played goons - I think it's kinda funny - CCP fucks up FW even more than it vwas by making changes totally unasked for and goons check it out. As usual, CCP messed things up and goons take advantage of it. CCP should join my corp, but instead they 'punish' goons. Yeah - right .
A game mechanic is legal as long as it's not labeled an exploit.
Duh - doesn't take a genius to give it a try each time they change something fundamental because they mess it up 80% of the time and and usually never admit it for years - see general plexing mechanics in FW or Winmatar boredom in general. You know... morons. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
470
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:35:00 -
[1774] - Quote
Sven Hammerstorm wrote:It is pretty clear that next time someone finds something like this, the last thing they should do is to try help and tell ccp. Ironic isnt it :P
"Teacher teacher, I found a small knife in my lunch, my mom must have given me hers by accident, I just wanted to make sure it's kept safe."
"YOU'RE EXPELLED!"
This literally happened at a local school. That is literally what's happening here. Won't tell other players about legitimate but unintended mechanics like this in the future, but I definitely won't be telling CCP either. CCP no longer respects its sandbox. Thanks, Sony. |
Totalrx
NA No Assholes Silver Twilight Enterprises
11
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Posted - 2012.06.22 22:36:00 -
[1775] - Quote
Tokclik wrote:Better Than You wrote:By goons mentality, we all should be dropping to our knees and thanking Osama Bin Laden for tighter security at the airports. Making a comparison between someone who helped kill thousands and someone who found a loophole in a videogame is moronic. A better comparison is the best people in IT security all started out as hackers and respect the up and coming hackers teaching them new things.
Agreed on the terrorist comparison. That was in poor taste and a poor example overall. Using Charles Ponzi would have made for a better example.
The old days in the newsgroups of the phreakers.
Yes, M$ used us and we used them. It was mutual. So did Norton (after M$ stole defrag from them) as well a McAffee, Dr Solomon's, as well as a few other corporations who were making firewall and security software. They kind of looked the other way when we'd open our FTP's for accounts and anon's.
The problem started when some of the 2600 peeps decided they wanted to see how far they could push it. A portion of the Regulators decided they were so influential in the system that they could be above the law and protocol.
It backfired. All of the phreaks involved suffered due to the over-exploitive actions of a percentage of the group. Let me tell you, getting phone calls and certified letters from the legal counsel of major corporations whom you used to laugh & joke with while helping them find holes was no laughing matter. It was no laughing matter for one of my closest 2600 contacts who had a choice - the military or prison. He went into the Marines.
Your comparison fits in one aspect - attitude.
I've sat back and ate my popcorn on this one. You exploited the system to your personal gain. While I do agree that a programmed mechanic in Eve's economy should be CCP"s responsibility, I can't blame them for backlashing Goonsquad. The title of the thread, the way it was written up, etc all have a "look at how we put CCP in their place - HAHA!"
IMHO - petitioning the exploit to CCP would have been the "helping CCP out" thing to do. Instead, you had it planned pre-patch and went for weeks until you had amassed and ungodly amount of ISK in a very short period of time. Then you flaunted it and taunted CCP.
CCP shouldn't take pre-exploit assets, as long as it can be proven by server logs that they were pre-exploit, but you should not have entered into a cyber-ego competition with CCP. They will win simply because they author this piece of software and it's their call who wins.
Back tot he popcorn....yummy |
Sven Hammerstorm
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
31
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Posted - 2012.06.22 22:36:00 -
[1776] - Quote
It isnt really a secret that many a corp have gotten their titan/titans from exploiting FW before inferno. As long as you dont go public its ok |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:41:00 -
[1777] - Quote
Sven Hammerstorm wrote:It isnt really a secret that many a corp have gotten their titan/titans from exploiting FW before inferno. As long as you dont go public its ok
You can be sure that things like this will never go public again. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
475
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:43:00 -
[1778] - Quote
Sven Hammerstorm wrote:It is pretty clear that next time someone finds something like this, the last thing they should do is to try help and tell ccp. Ironic isnt it :P
No they should tell CCP but before they exploit the cr*p out of it.
If you walk in through an open door a nick some ones TV and goods, then a month later walk in and say, hey you kept leaving your door open and that's why your stuff keeps getting nicked, then are they going to :-
A. beat the crap out of you and call the police B. turn around and say thank you very much for pointing that out and teachibg us a lesson, heres a cookie.
Tal
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Better Than You
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2012.06.22 22:43:00 -
[1779] - Quote
Makes me wonder why there are removing other assets outside of the faction warfare ones... RMT much little goonies? |
Veryez
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2012.06.22 22:43:00 -
[1780] - Quote
Aryth wrote:
The test quickly became even bigger than anticipated because upon release, FW turned out to have a bug that rewarded LP for both dropped and exploded cargo, doubling the rewards. So we went to work, [/b]sending hundreds of billions of ISK worth of highend minerals to Yulai to be blown up. Why Yulai? Anyone enlisted in faction warfare gets shot at by faction police of the opposing factions. Yulai and its entire constellation are owned by CONCORD, which is neutral territory. Thus, both FW alts could move through peacefully. Also, Yulai has an GÇ£Inner CircleGÇ¥ station, which was just plain funny. How fitting that Yulai, once the most important system in Eve, finally becomes relevant again.
[b]CCP reacted quickly and patched this out, but the damage was done (not that it really mattered since it would merely have delayed the inevitable); the cabal had our GÇ£seedGÇ¥ LP.
I would have applauded your ingenuity at a very elaborate and well conducted scheme. And while it might not have been a big part of your plan, you pretty much stated you exploited this bug rather than report it. Maybe you actually reported it first, but failed to mention that part in your writeup. I think your statement kind of forced CCP's hand. It's a shame you didn't completely pull this off, as it would most likely shown people what's possible in eve and brought more in. |
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Inspiration
Focused Radical Energy Engineering
27
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Posted - 2012.06.22 22:43:00 -
[1781] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Lyron-Baktos wrote:why are people shocked that CCP is removing assets? They've done it in the past and they'll do it again. What's more shocking is that Goons did this in the first place. You had to have known you would not be allowed to keep everything I know people might not believe me. But I really did expect to be allowed to keep it. This was well within what I consider the boundaries of the game. Many people agree, this is EVE.
But...you do know those players in corporations exploiting moon go reactions (where the goo wasn't consumed) were all banned. Now we can discuss semantics and if this is identical (in a way it is, but not in all aspects), but just getting assets nuked doesn't seem the hardest op actions CCP could take in that context.
CCP loves meta gaming and Goons excel at it and thus CCP loves Goons. I think that if some smaller unknown entity had done this to this level they would all have been banned! The assets nuked not part of the recent gains might just be a way of rectifying what cannot be 100% perfectly rectified (due to trades, conversions and whatnot).
As for you honestly expecting to keep it all, well, to be a little blunt...there are personality disorders named after such social blindness to effect on other people. No disrespect, I think you did a great job of putting CCP fail on the spot and maybe they start listening next time, but i have my doubts.
My first reaction on reading the whole thing...they must fire they CCP people responsible for this! But I know devs, i am one (not for games or CCP) and worked with many devs throughout my career. One this is certain, nearly all are blind for their own mistakes and many are so self-content with what they make they disregard input from others. This is the typical dev profile, great devs however are totally different in the listening to aspect, while still a little blind to their own mistakes. But thats human i suppose and in a sense a good thing, we don't want devs to be machines, now do we?
In saying so, I think CCP has not a good mix people to set game mechanics and a questionably track record in such matters. This drama was all avoidable in the first place, by both CCP and Goons. |
Jonni Favorite
Sundown Logistics SpaceMonkey's Alliance
108
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:44:00 -
[1782] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Sven Hammerstorm wrote:It is pretty clear that next time someone finds something like this, the last thing they should do is to try help and tell ccp. Ironic isnt it :P "Teacher teacher, I found a small knife in my lunch, my mom must have given me hers by accident, I just wanted to make sure it's kept safe." "YOU'RE EXPELLED!" This literally happened at a local school. That is literally what's happening here. Won't tell other players about legitimate but unintended mechanics like this in the future, but I definitely won't be telling CCP either.
Or the case of a travelling salesman with a gun license in Indiana trying to check in his weapon at a convention in NY. He is now facing a gun charge. Goes to show it's better to apologize later than ask permission.. |
Meno Theaetetus
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
44
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Posted - 2012.06.22 22:44:00 -
[1783] - Quote
I presume CCP have claimed assets so that they can isolate damage whilst an investigation is on-going.
This is not an exploit, we need to draw a distinction between an exploit and a market manipulation. What was done was within the rules of the game, it was all done within the confines of set game mechanic.
Consider a very wealthy player buying out an entire market of an item, to simulate demand and to raise prices. This is market manipulation, as is buying out a faction warfare items to change the average value of an item. This is part of EVE, and to prevent people from doing this would completely break the sandbox dynamic.
Part of the FW mechanics meant you could blow up your own stuff and get LP for it, this was well know, and it was spelled out to CCP that this would happen. They patched out part of it but didn't realise this left it open to market manipulation.
You can not punish someone for taking advantage of market manipulation, just the same as you cannot punish someone for taking advantage of a game mechanic that CCP knew well already existed. It is not the job of the players to judge what is 'reasonable' amounts of ISK to be making from a game mechanic.
If CCP deem the amount of isk generated excessive and damaging then they are right to take action, but considering no rules were broken the players involved should have ONLY the isk they generated taken away, and they should to compensated for the time they spent playing eve online within the mechanics sold as part of their monthly subscription.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
374
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:44:00 -
[1784] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Sven Hammerstorm wrote:It is pretty clear that next time someone finds something like this, the last thing they should do is to try help and tell ccp. Ironic isnt it :P No they should tell CCP but before they exploit the cr*p out of it. If you walk in through an open door a nick some ones TV and goods, then a month later walk in and say, hey you kept leaving your door open and that's why your stuff keeps getting nicked, then are they going to :- A. beat the crap out of you and call the police B. turn around and say thank you very much for pointing that out and teachibg us a lesson, heres a cookie. Tal
People DID tell CCP before it was released in another thread. That is the point. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
476
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:44:00 -
[1785] - Quote
Haquer wrote:Sven Hammerstorm wrote:It isnt really a secret that many a corp have gotten their titan/titans from exploiting FW before inferno. As long as you dont go public its ok You can be sure that things like this will never go public again.
Aaaahh .. you'll exploit without telling anyone. Got it.
Good answer lol
Tal |
Dictator IV
EPOCH Industrial
0
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Posted - 2012.06.22 22:45:00 -
[1786] - Quote
Even though I have zero relation to GF or any of its members, I want to express my support of this endeavor. The ability to come up with a scheme on such a grand scale deserves to be lauded, not punished.
In my eyes, the appeal of EVE is that it allows you to beat others to the "top" in so many different way. Do you want to be the king or the peasant? You can be whatever you want if you put your mind to it, and that is what should separate EVE from the competition. Events like this actually bring me back into the game in hopes that I can someday be a space trillionaire. I'm sure that I am not alone in feeling that way.
Assets were gained legitimately, and should remain in their wallets/vaults/fortresses. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
476
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:46:00 -
[1787] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Sven Hammerstorm wrote:It is pretty clear that next time someone finds something like this, the last thing they should do is to try help and tell ccp. Ironic isnt it :P No they should tell CCP but before they exploit the cr*p out of it. If you walk in through an open door a nick some ones TV and goods, then a month later walk in and say, hey you kept leaving your door open and that's why your stuff keeps getting nicked, then are they going to :- A. beat the crap out of you and call the police B. turn around and say thank you very much for pointing that out and teachibg us a lesson, heres a cookie. Tal People DID tell CCP. That is the point.
Ok so then before you you walked through the open door you heard that they had been warned that this could happen, but did it anyway ??
Look it was some clever ****, but you had to know the cr*p was going to fly ?
Tal
|
No More Heroes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
695
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:46:00 -
[1788] - Quote
Dictator IV wrote:Even though I have zero relation to GF or any of its members, I want to express my support of this endeavor. The ability to come up with a scheme on such a grand scale deserves to be lauded, not punished.
In my eyes, the appeal of EVE is that it allows you to beat others to the "top" in so many different way. Do you want to be the king or the peasant? You can be whatever you want if you put your mind to it, and that is what should separate EVE from the competition. Events like this actually bring me back into the game in hopes that I can someday be a space trillionaire. I'm sure that I am not alone in feeling that way.
Assets were gained legitimately, and should remain in their wallets/vaults/fortresses.
Oh we are lauding alright. It's all this pubbie mess right here that can't understand the diabolical genius behind it. . |
Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
143
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:47:00 -
[1789] - Quote
lol @ this thread, ego ************
I'm an American, English is my second language... |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
470
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:47:00 -
[1790] - Quote
Better Than You wrote:Makes me wonder why there are removing other assets outside of the faction warfare ones... RMT much little goonies? Other assets removed were datacores Aryth had purchased prior to any of this starting. CCP can't tell the difference between datacores purchased prior to this and datacores that came from the LP store. Shocking, right? CCP no longer respects its sandbox. Thanks, Sony. |
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Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1168
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:48:00 -
[1791] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Ok so then before you you walked through the open door you heard that they had been warned that this could happen, but did it anyway ??
Look it was some clever ****, but you had to know the cr*p was going to fly ?
Tal
thank you for your opinion ex-ASCN guy a rogue goon |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
537
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:51:00 -
[1792] - Quote
Quote:A game mechanic is legal as long as it's not labeled an exploit.
And CCP reserves the right to do anything they want to your account at any time for any reason, just like every game EULA.
The same people crying in this thread are the same people telling me CCP will never enforce said rule in other threads.
Quote:'cause when the fry dies down what the **** you gonna do Damn it feels good to be a gangsta
We now return you to your regularly scheduled **** poast. |
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
25
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Posted - 2012.06.22 22:51:00 -
[1793] - Quote
Paint CCP also did nothing about the trillions (with a 'T') isk worth of profit BoB and their CCP allies made off the BPOs, 'player' events, etc.[/quote wrote:
True they never took away all the motherships that Bob/some others exploited out of the those events before they sacked all those player gms either did they.
Are you saying that CCP adapted? |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
374
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:52:00 -
[1794] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Aryth wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Sven Hammerstorm wrote:It is pretty clear that next time someone finds something like this, the last thing they should do is to try help and tell ccp. Ironic isnt it :P No they should tell CCP but before they exploit the cr*p out of it. If you walk in through an open door a nick some ones TV and goods, then a month later walk in and say, hey you kept leaving your door open and that's why your stuff keeps getting nicked, then are they going to :- A. beat the crap out of you and call the police B. turn around and say thank you very much for pointing that out and teachibg us a lesson, heres a cookie. Tal People DID tell CCP. That is the point. Ok so then before you you walked through the open door you heard that they had been warned that this could happen, but did it anyway ?? Look it was some clever ****, but you had to know the cr*p was going to fly ? Tal
No, we didn't. As far as we were concerned, this was a rah-rah thing for the EVE storyline in general, with no long term damage to EVE. Everything about the plan revolved around that. So no, we didn't think anything would be flying. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1168
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:52:00 -
[1795] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Quote:A game mechanic is legal as long as it's not labeled an exploit. And CCP reserves the right to do anything they want to your account at any time for any reason, just like every game EULA. The same people crying in this thread are the same people telling me CCP will never enforce said rule in other threads. "Then they came for me, and nobody was left to speak up for me." a rogue goon |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
476
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:53:00 -
[1796] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Ok so then before you you walked through the open door you heard that they had been warned that this could happen, but did it anyway ??
Look it was some clever ****, but you had to know the cr*p was going to fly ?
Tal
thank you for your opinion ex-ASCN guy
Ex who ? what's that got to do with the price of eggs, oh knows, the guy that was part of a corp that was allied with with some forgotten Alliance has an opinion, woe is me, apart form the fact you just described half of Eve
Tal
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Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
147
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:54:00 -
[1797] - Quote
Loads of money |
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
65
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:55:00 -
[1798] - Quote
Better Than You wrote:Makes me wonder why there are removing other assets outside of the faction warfare ones... RMT much little goonies?
[Citation Needed]
Read the new forum rules, thanks. No rumors. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
537
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:57:00 -
[1799] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Quote:A game mechanic is legal as long as it's not labeled an exploit. And CCP reserves the right to do anything they want to your account at any time for any reason, just like every game EULA. The same people crying in this thread are the same people telling me CCP will never enforce said rule in other threads. "Then they came for me, and nobody was left to speak up for me." ~ sun tzu
The difference of course is that you bitches never spoke for me. We now return you to your regularly scheduled **** poast. |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
64
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:58:00 -
[1800] - Quote
Haquer wrote:Better Than You wrote:Makes me wonder why there are removing other assets outside of the faction warfare ones... RMT much little goonies? [Citation Needed] Read the new forum rules, thanks. No rumors. that rule only applies to goon posts Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
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