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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
294
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Posted - 2012.09.18 15:39:00 -
[91] - Quote
cool4nd wrote:Regarding Omen & Thorax
The Omen & Thorax still cant fit 1600mm plate without tons of fitting mods
Winter Omen can fit Focused Medium Pulse, MWD, small cap booster, meta 1600mm plate, other reasonable stuff, with one PG mod.
Which kinda sucks when you forget how bad the Omen already is, for this reason: it's only like 60 PG short. If Focused Medium Pulse had gotten the 10% PG reduction that Heavy Pulse got, you could get by with a 3% PG implant.
I'm having to do the math myself for the 5% PG reduction on the guns, though, and might've gotten it wrong, but 1600mm fits with one ACR rig even using the current fitting stats for the guns.
What it can't do is fit laser rigs and 1600mm plate.
EDIT: heh, beaten to this point. |
Wivabel
Exanimo Inc Anger Management.
5
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Posted - 2012.09.18 15:43:00 -
[92] - Quote
yes accept the fact that its 1600 plate or go home. Balance around this or give us a good reason to use a damn 800. If you like to pew small gang style check us out.-á
http://exanimo.enjin.com/page/150364/recruitment-á |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
196
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Posted - 2012.09.18 15:44:00 -
[93] - Quote
Thorax is a bit underwhelming to be honest, i would think a utility high or an additional low slot would be better than extra med, unless we are all just going to continue on the merry way to LSE online. |
Klown Walk
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
139
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Posted - 2012.09.18 15:45:00 -
[94] - Quote
Will you add cruisers with a bonus to active tanking? I don't want to buffer tank everything. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
57
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Posted - 2012.09.18 15:53:00 -
[95] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Hoarr wrote:WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. These changes look awesome. It's good to see the omen getting some much needed love. The Omens the change I really like. Thorax too but I would prefer an extra low over the Shield Fit everyone will be flying. Give it some good Dmg as an Armor setup.
But this way you can do dual prop! which might be kinda cool |
Ty Delaney
Gambit Roulette
18
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Posted - 2012.09.18 15:55:00 -
[96] - Quote
Wivabel wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:Wivabel wrote:Not happy with the thorax. With an 800 plate I can fit only IONs with a 1600 plate I cant even fit electrons without fitting mods. On the shield side it barely fits with the lack of cpu. looks like you will not have tank or gank on this ship at the moment. Did you take into account the 25% engineering bonus to PG and the 25% electronics bonus to cpu, as well as weapon upgrades and AWU? Yep with max skills
Right in Fozzie's original post it says:
Quote:...you can still buffer tank them decently if you downgrade guns.
So what you're saying sounds like 'working as intended'. These are the attack cruisers. Putting 1600mm plates on a thorax would be the equivalent of... what? 400mm on an Atron? I submit that that's not what this line of ships is for, with this update. Moderate armor buffer (or an armor rep setup if Fozzie's comments from Bringing Solo Back #20 go through and active-rep ships stop being slow) with Ions, or shield, Neutrons, DCU, damage, and nanos. |
Rodj Blake
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1115
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Posted - 2012.09.18 15:57:00 -
[97] - Quote
I for one welcome our new drone-spamming Omen overlords. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
559
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Posted - 2012.09.18 16:00:00 -
[98] - Quote
i think i am giong to use this setup:
200 rails with jav
10 mn mwd
20 km point
two large sheild extenders
then 3 mag stabs
2 tracking enhancers
3 shield extending rigs
5 ecm 300
5 warrior II Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Martin0
Maximum-Overload
66
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Posted - 2012.09.18 16:04:00 -
[99] - Quote
The thorax need more powergrid or everyone wll just shield tank it. NOW it need a Ancillary current router to fit electrons and a 1600, if you want to ions and a 800 you still have fitting problems, with four mids a shield tank is best. I too would shield tank it and i hate shields |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
57
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Posted - 2012.09.18 16:06:00 -
[100] - Quote
These things are supposed to be fast,
Stop complaining your god damn 1600-¦s wont fit ffs.. |
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
560
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Posted - 2012.09.18 16:15:00 -
[101] - Quote
Martin0 wrote:The thorax need more powergrid or everyone wll just shield tank it. NOW it need a Ancillary current router to fit electrons and a 1600, if you want to ions and a 800 you still have fitting problems, with four mids a shield tank is best. I too would shield tank it and i hate shields
shield tank everything now a days... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Lelob
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
56
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Posted - 2012.09.18 16:18:00 -
[102] - Quote
Thorax: Cruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage 7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed Slot layout: 5 H, 4 M (+1), 5 L, 5 turrets Fittings: 820 PWG, 330 CPU (+30) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-324) / 1600(-41) / 1700(+175) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+75) / 490s(+25.25s) / 2.8 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235(+55) / 0.49(-0.0658) / 11280000 / 5.2s (-0.7) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km(-2.5) / 280(+21) / 6 Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric Signature radius: 130(-10) Cargo capacity: 465(+200)
Everything looks good here except for this fascination CCP seems to have with giving gallente ships more structure. Sure it's "racial," but nobody gives a **** about structure tanking because there really is no such thing outside of comedy fits. If you want to change the defense on the ship, just remove more of the structure and leave the shields/armor. Seriously, these things are already very thin as it is, so reducing the shields and armor like you have here just does not make sense. |
Alara IonStorm
3160
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 16:18:00 -
[103] - Quote
cool4nd wrote: Addionally Omen will suffer hard on capacitor, with ROF sucking cap like crazy.
I agree with this, Dmg would be better. I don't mind the 1 ACR for 1600mm Plate trade off. 37k EHP + 2 heatsinks isn't bad.
Garviel Tarrant wrote:These things are supposed to be fast,
Stop complaining your god damn 1600-¦s wont fit ffs.. I would very much like to stop complaining about 1600mm Plates and if 800mm Plates were worth a warm bucket of spit I would.
Better yet give 1600mm Plate a 1500 PG Requirement so they work on Battleships only and make 800mm worth it for Cruisers / Battlecruisers the same way LSE are. Then make an XLSE with 1000PG and 250 CPU for Battleships as well.
|
MIrple
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
111
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Posted - 2012.09.18 16:19:00 -
[104] - Quote
With the fear of being burned alive what needs to be done is a change to the fitting needs of LSE. I do agree though that if it is tight to fit a rax with ions and a 800 plate this might need to be changed. The biggest help to everything would be to make it harder to fit LSE to sub BS ships. As they way it is now they are way to easy to fit to everything. |
Alara IonStorm
3160
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 16:25:00 -
[105] - Quote
CCP please give the Stabber a full flight of small drones and 5th gun.
If you don't people will just continue to use the Rupture and they will use the Bellicose or it in the kiting role you set up for the Stabber.
Nerf the speed a bit if you have to but give just it a little more Dmg please.
Also the Caracal could use some work with the Heavy Nerf. |
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
197
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Posted - 2012.09.18 16:25:00 -
[106] - Quote
Lelob wrote:Thorax: Cruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage 7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed Slot layout: 5 H, 4 M (+1), 5 L, 5 turrets Fittings: 820 PWG, 330 CPU (+30) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-324) / 1600(-41) / 1700(+175) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+75) / 490s(+25.25s) / 2.8 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235(+55) / 0.49(-0.0658) / 11280000 / 5.2s (-0.7) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km(-2.5) / 280(+21) / 6 Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric Signature radius: 130(-10) Cargo capacity: 465(+200)
Everything looks good here except for this fascination CCP seems to have with giving gallente ships more structure. Sure it's "racial," but nobody gives a **** about structure tanking because there really is no such thing outside of comedy fits. If you want to change the defense on the ship, just remove more of the structure and leave the shields/armor. Seriously, these things are already very thin as it is, so reducing the shields and armor like you have here just does not make sense. I imagine it's to deter people from fitting nanos vs overdrives (think 'ranis) and also to give you some more EHP/time to cycle reps without buffing buffer tanks. |
Aaron Greil
Royal Imperial Navy Reserves
23
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Posted - 2012.09.18 16:46:00 -
[107] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:CCP please give the Stabber a full flight of small drones and 5th gun.
If you don't people will just continue to use the Rupture and they will use the Bellicose or it in the kiting role you set up for the Stabber.
Nerf the speed a bit if you have to but give just it a little more Dmg please.
Also the Caracal could use some work with the Heavy Nerf.
I completely disagree. With the range bonus and the fact that TEs and TCs now increase missiles too, coupled with the speed very firmly make this a solid ship. Also, winmatards don't need another ship that outclasses everyone else. If the omen outshines the stabber just a hair in this line up, thats okay. Every race has its strong ships, not that I'm agreeing with your premise in the first place. Did you see the bellicose?
On another note, I love these changes. I'm glad they only gave drones to one ship this time, and to a ship that needed it the most. I also like the fact that they added some credence to shield thoraxes. I think gallente should have just a dash of shield fits, moreso than amarr anyway. On the same token, Armor thoraxes haven't been ruined in the process. The balance feels nice.
Also, there are a couple people whining about not being able to put battleship mods on their t1 cruisers without fitting mods.
A couple recommendations- While the omen's new drones are nice, 40 seems a bit much, even eclipsing the navy omen. Not sure about this. I would never want to see it nerfed, but to retain gallente's drone superiority, how about giving the thorax an additional 25 drone bay, for a few extra drone options on the fly. Also, the vexor had better be getting 100 bandwidth.
The thorax is hard pressed with the range of blasters. It seems it would be a wise choice to give it an additional 10m/s. speed. It needs to compensate for armor penalties.
The laser fitting buff is beyond awesome. I may have a reason to use beams now. Still, I think rails could use a little of that love too. |
whaynethepain
56
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Posted - 2012.09.18 16:47:00 -
[108] - Quote
Erm, oh yea baby.
Lower PG to fit med' guns.
Pure genius, though it must have taken much work to get the balance with fitting, across the range of hulls we have, and are to receive.
Reading the thread quickly, I don't think people will appreciate the potential of this fix, until it hits them Getting you on your feet.
So you've further to fall. |
Ashera Yune
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
50
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Posted - 2012.09.18 16:56:00 -
[109] - Quote
The stabber 5 m3 drone bay is silly. Get rid of the missiles slot, add a turret slot and 25m3 drone bay. "Yesterday we obeyed kings and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to truth."
-áKahlil Gibran |
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
150
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:07:00 -
[110] - Quote
Ashera Yune wrote:The stabber 5 m3 drone bay is silly. Get rid of the missiles slot, add a turret slot and 25m3 drone bay.
Actually it having any drones is silly. Keep it as it is and remove the drone. |
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Ashera Yune
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
53
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:10:00 -
[111] - Quote
Marcel Devereux wrote:Ashera Yune wrote:The stabber 5 m3 drone bay is silly. Get rid of the missiles slot, add a turret slot and 25m3 drone bay. Actually it having any drones is silly. Keep it as it is and remove the drone.
Only Gallente ships should have Drones.
Remove drones from all ships EXCEPT FOR GALLENTE SHIPS. "Yesterday we obeyed kings and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to truth."
-áKahlil Gibran |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
529
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 17:11:00 -
[112] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Stabber: Cruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed 7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff Slot layout: 6 H, 4 M (+1), 4 L (+1), 4 Turrets, 2 Launchers Fittings: 715 PWG (+15), 340 CPU (+40) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(+15) / 1400(+150) / 1400(+111) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1200(+137.5) / 427.5s(+46.25s) / 2.8(+0.01) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 285(+54) / 0.5(+0.02) / 11400000 / 5.3s (+0.2) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km(+7.5) / 320(+15) / 5 Sensor strength: 13 Ladar (+3) Signature radius: 105 Cargo capacity: 420
Doesn't the stabber already HAVE a sensor strength of 13? You certainly don't plan on making it 16..... I want my prevalent minnie ships with as low Sensor Strength as possible...
Also, overall the changes look good... I look forward to them!!! |
Bap1811
Club Bear
5
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:11:00 -
[113] - Quote
Marcel Devereux wrote:Ashera Yune wrote:The stabber 5 m3 drone bay is silly. Get rid of the missiles slot, add a turret slot and 25m3 drone bay. Actually it having any drones is silly. Keep it as it is and remove the drone.
And add a gun. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
529
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 17:14:00 -
[114] - Quote
Are the stats for t2 versions of these ships changing at the same time??? Or are they just going to be.... left as is until the next major rebalance? |
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
150
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 17:23:00 -
[115] - Quote
Bap1811 wrote:Marcel Devereux wrote:Ashera Yune wrote:The stabber 5 m3 drone bay is silly. Get rid of the missiles slot, add a turret slot and 25m3 drone bay. Actually it having any drones is silly. Keep it as it is and remove the drone. And add a gun.
That is silly as well. Under microwarp that thing moves 2,392 m/s (that is not overheating or other speed modules). So you want longest damage projection, fastest ship, pretty decent tank, no capacitor use for weapons, and a titan-ton of damage? Yup that sounds balanced to me. Ship it. |
Ashera Yune
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
55
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:27:00 -
[116] - Quote
Marcel Devereux wrote:Bap1811 wrote:Marcel Devereux wrote:Ashera Yune wrote:The stabber 5 m3 drone bay is silly. Get rid of the missiles slot, add a turret slot and 25m3 drone bay. Actually it having any drones is silly. Keep it as it is and remove the drone. And add a gun. That is silly as well. Under microwarp that thing moves 2,392 m/s (that is not overheating or other speed modules). So you want longest damage projection, fastest ship, pretty decent tank, no capacitor use for weapons, and a titan-ton of damage? Yup that sounds balanced to me. Ship it.
Hahaha you dummy. Titan-ton of damage, longest damage projection? You must be a braindead ******. "Yesterday we obeyed kings and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to truth."
-áKahlil Gibran |
Svennig
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
82
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:28:00 -
[117] - Quote
Ashera Yune wrote:The stabber 5 m3 drone bay is silly. Get rid of the missiles slot, add a turret slot and 25m3 drone bay.
Yeah, that won't be unbalanced at all!~ |
Alara IonStorm
3161
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 17:28:00 -
[118] - Quote
Marcel Devereux wrote: That is silly as well. Under microwarp that thing moves 2,392 m/s (that is not overheating or other speed modules). So you want longest damage projection, fastest ship, pretty decent tank, no capacitor use for weapons, and a titan-ton of damage? Yup that sounds balanced to me. Ship it.
It can currently move at that speed and no one uses it. Even with a Drone Bay and a Gun it will still do less Damage then the Rupture which is used currently and has one more low for an extra TD making the bonus all the less spectacular.
I don't care if they knock 30m/s off of it, it needs more Dmg if it is going to be used at all. Otherwise it is in the same position it was in before.
Svennig wrote: Yeah, that won't be unbalanced at all!~
It honestly would not. The ship would have a worse tank then the Vaga and less Dmg with worse fitting and slots.
It would be a baby Vagabond. Hard to catch but we are talking 360 Paper DPS with Barrage, 430 with normal decreased by Falloff. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
288
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:31:00 -
[119] - Quote
Still not convinced that axing grid and reducing arty requirement is the way to make sure auto boats are not free-to-fit-anything + max dps. Yes, ships designed for artillery has a massive surplus when fitting autos, but wouldn't increasing auto fittings solve that just as well without making artillery a lot more viable on other races hulls?
Thorax is going to be the new FoTM. Dual prop it and abuse that tracking bonus .. holy mother of the sacred hot potato .. hope you nerf/remove ECM drones before that goes live or space risks being very bland (more than now) indeed |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
58
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:34:00 -
[120] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Marcel Devereux wrote: That is silly as well. Under microwarp that thing moves 2,392 m/s (that is not overheating or other speed modules). So you want longest damage projection, fastest ship, pretty decent tank, no capacitor use for weapons, and a titan-ton of damage? Yup that sounds balanced to me. Ship it.
It can currently move at that speed and no one uses it. Even with a Drone Bay and a Gun it will still do less Damage then the Rupture which is used currently and has one more low for an extra TD making the bonus all the less spectacular. I don't care if they knock 30m/s off of it, it needs more Dmg if it is going to be used at all. Otherwise it is in the same position it was in before. Svennig wrote: Yeah, that won't be unbalanced at all!~
It honestly would not. The ship would have a worse tank then the Vaga and less Dmg with worse fitting and slots. It would be a baby Vagabond.
With the falloff bonus i'm pretty sure it will outdps the rupture at 20 km? I havn't done the math though so i could be wrong. |
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