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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Ashriban Kador
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
13
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Posted - 2012.09.28 20:07:00 -
[541] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:-20% Penalty per lvl of Rig Skill Trained instead of -10%.
I don't think that's ever going to happen, or at least I hope not.
I'd think they should instead adjust rig penalties in such a way that every kind of rig is available to your fit. (IE Speed rigs for armor ships as an example.)
There should always be a trade off for a player to think about when fitting a ship, it makes things more interesting. Your goals may align with some ... and with others, collide with the force of suns. |
Alara IonStorm
3195
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Posted - 2012.09.28 20:11:00 -
[542] - Quote
Deerin wrote:People have already begun talking about last batch of cruisers....Fozzie where is the last batchof changes.
Please consider following bonus for Moa:
+30% tracking per level on RAILS only. (might be too much but you get the idea) +%5 resists per level 6 turrets
I would prefer 5% Dmg / 5% Opt / 6 Turrets / 6H 5M 4L / No Drones.
With proper fitting for 250mm of course. I don't think it needs close range weapons tracking or a super tank. About 30-35K would be fine, what it needs is project-able mid range Dmg and speed.
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Alara IonStorm
3195
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Posted - 2012.09.28 20:13:00 -
[543] - Quote
Ashriban Kador wrote: There should always be a trade off for a player to think about when fitting a ship, it makes things more interesting.
Their is a trade off, Nano's cut hull, Plates increase Mass, Extenders blow up Sig.
We do not need double penalties and we don't need penalties just for the sake of penalties.
Module penalties are enough, these don't make the game interesting they just make some classes of rigs unusable on sertain ships and that limits variety.
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2282
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Posted - 2012.09.28 20:17:00 -
[544] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Ashriban Kador wrote: There should always be a trade off for a player to think about when fitting a ship, it makes things more interesting.
Their is a trade off, Nano's cut hull, Plates increase Mass, Extenders blow up Sig. We do not need double penalties and we don't need penalties just for the sake of penalties. Module penalties are enough, these don't make the game interesting they just make some classes of rigs unusable on certain ships and that limits variety.
I want to see rig go one of two ways: - Rigs are completely optional. Trade shield HP for shield resists, trade weapon ROF for weapon alpha, etc. - Rig penalties go away at rig level 5.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Alara IonStorm
3195
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Posted - 2012.09.28 20:19:00 -
[545] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: - Rigs are completely optional. Trade shield HP for shield resists, trade weapon ROF for weapon alpha, etc.
That is pretty interesting. Difficult to implement but interesting. |
Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
219
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Posted - 2012.09.29 06:45:00 -
[546] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Liang Nuren wrote: - Rigs are completely optional. Trade shield HP for shield resists, trade weapon ROF for weapon alpha, etc.
That is pretty interesting. Difficult to implement but interesting. Sort off increase one area of a ship by lessening it in the same stat tree. So you can tweak a shield setup or Arty setup to preform a specific more narrow role. now that is the most interesting idea ive heard on rigs to date.
Of course there would be some rigs with basically no drawback IE +Falloff -Optimal on any autocannon ship is basically no drawback but its an interesting idea. |
Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
219
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Posted - 2012.09.29 06:52:00 -
[547] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Ashriban Kador wrote:Fixing armor tanking is easy (dunno why they haven't done it yet)
Move speed penalty from armor rigs to agility penalty. Move armor penalty from astronautics rigs to hull penalty.
Done.
On a side note: Why not have the Gallente have a similar play-style to minmatar? Armor or Shield tank with a lean towards armor, the minmatar leaning towards shields. I think you hugely underestimate the importance of agility. I don't think we'd see a real improvement with this solution. -Liang I disagree, right now, any idiot can kite a gallente ship: 1. Turn Guns On 2. Set "Keep At Range" or "Orbit At Range" 3. ??? 4. Profit
If the gallente ships were faster but less agile than the matari ships, it would at least take intelligence and a quick eye to kite instead of just using one of the CCP prescribed buttons.
No ship should be fastest and most agile and longest ranged, and thats what the hurricane is right now (if you count the HAM drake not the HML drake)
This wouldnt make gallente ships totally OP, but it would make them more powerful than they are now, and would add some interesting risk/reward ideas for fitting IE do you want to lose some hull and a low slot for a nanofiber to counteract your agility? |
FleetAdmiralHarper
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.09.29 11:28:00 -
[548] - Quote
are all of the cruisers getting visually revamped like the stabber?
or is the moa still going to look like a r3t@rd-osaurus-rex glued to the ass-end of idk what?
im looking forward to seeing some cool looking caldari cruiser for a change. its the reason i skipped them all. =P
but hey the stabber looks grate! so if its the only one. i guess ill defect to winmatar when i wanna pilot a cruiser =) |
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
9
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Posted - 2012.09.29 14:43:00 -
[549] - Quote
Quote:are all of the cruisers getting visually revamped like the stabber?
or is the moa still going to look like a r3t@rd-osaurus-rex glued to the ass-end of idk what?
im looking forward to seeing some cool looking caldari cruiser for a change. its the reason i skipped them all. =P
but hey the stabber looks grate! so if its the only one. i guess ill defect to winmatar when i wanna pilot a cruiser =)
U mad? CCP will never give the other races half the love like they give it the minnies. New Stabber, new Tempest.... and caldari and galente don-Št even have the V3 shader update. So: everything as usual. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
761
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Posted - 2012.09.29 16:06:00 -
[550] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Deerin wrote:People have already begun talking about last batch of cruisers....Fozzie where is the last batchof changes.
Please consider following bonus for Moa:
+30% tracking per level on RAILS only. (might be too much but you get the idea) +%5 resists per level 6 turrets
I would prefer 5% Dmg / 5% Opt / 6 Turrets / 6H 5M 4L / No Drones. With proper fitting for 250mm of course. I don't think it needs close range weapons tracking or a super tank. About 30-35K would be fine, what it needs is project-able mid range Dmg and speed.
Now that would be a decent Thorax !!
Ho wait...
brb |
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Alara IonStorm
3204
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Posted - 2012.09.29 16:31:00 -
[551] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Now that would be a decent Thorax !! Ho wait... What?
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Major Killz
Chaotic Tranquility Kraken.
70
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Posted - 2012.09.29 21:48:00 -
[552] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Glad @tleast some of you noticed what the proposed Thorax would be capable of. I alluded to it an earlier post, but I might as well go further. The proposed Thorax is a pseudo-Stabber fleet issues with more tracking. You could shield fit it, but why would you? There's something called signature tanking and because medium turrets cannot track cruisers without being effected by a ship bonus. A dual propulsion stabber fleet issue or the proposed Thorax can abuse the tracking of a shield-hurricane and sustain next to know damage from it's turrets (neuts will still f*uck you though).
I hope they give the Rupture a forth mid slot or else Thorax and possible a Vexor with increased velocity and 3 mids alone will own any other cruiser under warp scrambler/web range.
With that said. If CCP gave the Vexor another mid slot, then It will be king under 10k.
Also the Caracal will become a demon. The nano-drake of t1 cruisers without the silly tank, but still.
Anyway, the Thorax's real strength will be with dual propulsion. Which would make it an above class ship killer. All battlcruisers, hacs and cruisers without a tracking bonus, 2 med neuts or web on thier ship will be it's prey. Example: ferox, prophecy, cyclone, vagabond, cynabal etc.
These changes may mean that the Caracal and Omen will dominate "nano/kiting" and the Thorax and Vexor will dominate close range. Leaving the Rupture as the odd man out... Sad day if it comes to past but, I'm hoping the Rupture gets a 4th mid slot = (
Edit: also if you believe those light web drones will help you against the new omen hull in a shield thorax you are mistaken. Use a shield Harbinger against a shield Brutix and figure out the rest (dirty dub face = /).
Cross postings an old post = Posted: 2012.09.20 18:40 |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
763
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Posted - 2012.09.30 13:29:00 -
[553] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Major Killz wrote:Glad @tleast some of you noticed what the proposed Thorax would be capable of. I alluded to it an earlier post, but I might as well go further. The proposed Thorax is a pseudo-Stabber fleet issues with more tracking. You could shield fit it, but why would you? There's something called signature tanking and because medium turrets cannot track cruisers without being effected by a ship bonus. A dual propulsion stabber fleet issue or the proposed Thorax can abuse the tracking of a shield-hurricane and sustain next to know damage from it's turrets (neuts will still f*uck you though).
I hope they give the Rupture a forth mid slot or else Thorax and possible a Vexor with increased velocity and 3 mids alone will own any other cruiser under warp scrambler/web range.
With that said. If CCP gave the Vexor another mid slot, then It will be king under 10k.
Also the Caracal will become a demon. The nano-drake of t1 cruisers without the silly tank, but still.
Anyway, the Thorax's real strength will be with dual propulsion. Which would make it an above class ship killer. All battlcruisers, hacs and cruisers without a tracking bonus, 2 med neuts or web on thier ship will be it's prey. Example: ferox, prophecy, cyclone, vagabond, cynabal etc.
These changes may mean that the Caracal and Omen will dominate "nano/kiting" and the Thorax and Vexor will dominate close range. Leaving the Rupture as the odd man out... Sad day if it comes to past but, I'm hoping the Rupture gets a 4th mid slot = (
Edit: also if you believe those light web drones will help you against the new omen hull in a shield thorax you are mistaken. Use a shield Harbinger against a shield Brutix and figure out the rest (dirty dub face = /). Cross postings an old post = Posted: 2012.09.20 18:40
What he said, the shield Thorax will just murder anything of it's size/class and in gangs will simply be the sight you don't want to have by any means when you cross whatever gate, witch is silly but due to game mechanics and since you can shield/armor fit any ship. Does Thorax needs and deserves an extra mid? -absolutely BECAUSE armor tanking/weapon system Does Thorax needs and deserves more PG/CPU? - absolutely BECAUSE armor tanking/weapon system
But what in hell prevents or says you can't shield fit it and make it twice as strong as any other cruiser? -nothing, so do it.
brb |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
73
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Posted - 2012.09.30 13:47:00 -
[554] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote: What he said, the shield Thorax will just murder anything of it's size/class and in gangs will simply be the sight you don't want to have by any means when you cross whatever gate, witch is silly but due to game mechanics and since you can shield/armor fit any ship. Does Thorax needs and deserves an extra mid? -absolutely BECAUSE armor tanking/weapon system Does Thorax needs and deserves more PG/CPU? - absolutely BECAUSE armor tanking/weapon system
But what in hell prevents or says you can't shield fit it and make it twice as strong as any other cruiser? -nothing, so do it.
Armor versus shield once again.
I think, as CCP did with missiles, they should have balance armor tank versus shield tank before the ships. |
Harvey James
Prospero's Sight
28
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Posted - 2012.09.30 13:56:00 -
[555] - Quote
one way to solve the problem of armour tank vs shield tank is for large plates and shield extenders too be impossible to fit on medium hulls this will halve the penalties of sig bloom and mass increase and nerfs t3's and bc's tank in one go making battleships more desirable. Now ofc the medium plates/extenders may need a slight buff/balance to bridge some of the loss of tank and too increase their fitting requirements so frigs have to use smalls etc.
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Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
481
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Posted - 2012.09.30 13:57:00 -
[556] - Quote
I keep saying this: armor vs shield needs to be balanced or tiericide will not fully achieve its goals. The redesigned cruisers still have the same problem: their performance is mostly measured in good they are at the shield kiting game. It's stupid that a LSE Omen with shield rigs seems like a better choice than a trimarked 800mm plate fit.
Speed is a defensive and offensive stat in its on right. Gaining hitpoints in exchange for speed is just not a good trade for anything small than battleships. |
Operative X10-4
Aqua Team Inc.
6
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Posted - 2012.09.30 23:00:00 -
[557] - Quote
The caracal buffer is great, it seens that finaly Caldari will have a cruiser that can go toe to toe against other cruisers as a brawler, the most closely thing we have is the moa but still subpar. thumbs up +1 |
Garr Earthbender
Justified Chaos
55
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Posted - 2012.10.01 00:40:00 -
[558] - Quote
Range you say? Tracking Disrupting Arbitrator I say. -Rock is overpowered, Scissors is fine. |
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Random Rule Conform Corpname A Point In Space
53
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Posted - 2012.10.01 08:53:00 -
[559] - Quote
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang wrote:Quote:are all of the cruisers getting visually revamped like the stabber?
or is the moa still going to look like a r3t@rd-osaurus-rex glued to the ass-end of idk what?
im looking forward to seeing some cool looking caldari cruiser for a change. its the reason i skipped them all. =P
but hey the stabber looks grate! so if its the only one. i guess ill defect to winmatar when i wanna pilot a cruiser =) U mad? CCP will never give the other races half the love like they give it the minnies. New Stabber, new Tempest.... and caldari and galente don-Št even have the V3 shader update. So: everything as usual.
wtf dude !? caldari & gallente got V3'ed 6 months or more before minmatar (which was btw the last race to get V3'ed) as you not seem to have noticed, there are different factional paint jobs to be seen in the market for the catalyst, which is a hint of beeingV3'ed as subtle as a punch in your face. caldari already got 2 ships redesigned, amarr got 1 and this by good measure beforehand of any changes to minmatar ship design.
on the topic of attack cruisers; please make them testable like now? :D
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Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
11
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Posted - 2012.10.01 09:11:00 -
[560] - Quote
Quote:wtf dude !? caldari & gallente got V3'ed 6 months or more before minmatar (which was btw the last race to get V3'ed) as you not seem to have noticed, there are different factional paint jobs to be seen in the market for the catalyst, which is a hint of beeingV3'ed as subtle as a punch in your face. caldari already got 2 ships redesigned, amarr got 1 and this by good measure beforehand of any changes to minmatar ship design.
on the topic of attack cruisers; please make them testable like now? :D
Okay our level is already sinking here.... Then compare the "remodeled" drake with the old drake and you will see almost no difference. Then compare old stabber and new stabber. WOW!!!!! Awesome model. And if caldari really already has v3...erm then ccp has really screwd sth. It never looks as good like amarr or minmatar ships. |
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Nagarythe Tinurandir
Random Rule Conform Corpname A Point In Space
53
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Posted - 2012.10.01 11:41:00 -
[561] - Quote
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang wrote:Quote:wtf dude !? caldari & gallente got V3'ed 6 months or more before minmatar (which was btw the last race to get V3'ed) as you not seem to have noticed, there are different factional paint jobs to be seen in the market for the catalyst, which is a hint of beeingV3'ed as subtle as a punch in your face. caldari already got 2 ships redesigned, amarr got 1 and this by good measure beforehand of any changes to minmatar ship design.
on the topic of attack cruisers; please make them testable like now? :D Okay our level is already sinking here.... Then compare the "remodeled" drake with the old drake and you will see almost no difference. Then compare old stabber and new stabber. WOW!!!!! Awesome model. And if caldari really already has v3...erm then ccp has really screwd sth. It never looks as good like amarr or minmatar ships.
you really have no clue what you are talking about.... i wasn't even counting the drake in, because it was only a small overhaul. raven and scorpion. both remakes are awesome. maybe google a little bit to find the old models. maybe in general look at pics from gallente and caldari ships shortly after the graphic overhaul introduced in "trinity" expansion and compare them to the ships now ingame. especially T2 ships. you will notice a big difference. it kind of makes me wonder why you haven't noticed until now (hint, hint look in the crucible change log ifyou do not believe me. key word: ships ) http://community.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?newpatchlogID=3219
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Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
11
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Posted - 2012.10.01 11:54:00 -
[562] - Quote
Quote:you really have no clue what you are talking about.... i wasn't even counting the drake in, because it was only a small overhaul. raven and scorpion. both remakes are awesome. maybe google a little bit to find the old models. maybe in general look at pics from gallente and caldari ships shortly after the graphic overhaul introduced in "trinity" expansion and compare them to the ships now ingame. especially T2 ships. you will notice a big difference. it kind of makes me wonder why you haven't noticed until now (hint, hint look in the crucible change log ifyou do not believe me. key word: ships ) http://community.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?newpatchlogID=3219
Okay okay. But tbh caldari ships and galente ships look like.... erm. Especially the hookbill is such an ugly piece of.... Merlin and Kestrel are okay. Caracal, blackbird...... erm.... Super shader update that you do not even see it. Yes the scorpion and raven look great but some others.... Blackbird is....whats that???? Especially galente could really need some love. Their ships look like frogs after a car accident. But the new minmatar and amarr ships look really great. I have to admit.
To the stabber critics guys: I think CCP wants to get the stabber in the REALLY fast attack ship role. So kite blaster cruisers to hell or I suppose main role: Kill frigs. I mean: This ship will be more a BIG frig instead of a cruiser and that is cool too. It will simply eat T2 frigs. The new model is really awesome. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
1730
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Posted - 2012.10.01 13:05:00 -
[563] - Quote
Hey guys. Don't worry I have not forgotten this thread. I just finished reading all the posts I had missed over the weekend.
We're very aware of the issues facing armor tanking, and how those issues hurt ships like the Omen. We're working on it, although I can't give you all an ETA quite yet. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Harvey James
Prospero's Sight
30
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Posted - 2012.10.01 13:11:00 -
[564] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys. Don't worry I have not forgotten this thread. I just finished reading all the posts I had missed over the weekend.
We're very aware of the issues facing armor tanking, and how those issues hurt ships like the Omen. We're working on it, although I can't give you all an ETA quite yet.
so CCP Fozzie what is the solution you're working on?
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
1730
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Posted - 2012.10.01 13:16:00 -
[565] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys. Don't worry I have not forgotten this thread. I just finished reading all the posts I had missed over the weekend.
We're very aware of the issues facing armor tanking, and how those issues hurt ships like the Omen. We're working on it, although I can't give you all an ETA quite yet. so CCP Fozzie what is the solution you're working on?
Changing all the things.
Also heat. Lots and lots of heat. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Harvey James
Prospero's Sight
30
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Posted - 2012.10.01 13:18:00 -
[566] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Harvey James wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys. Don't worry I have not forgotten this thread. I just finished reading all the posts I had missed over the weekend.
We're very aware of the issues facing armor tanking, and how those issues hurt ships like the Omen. We're working on it, although I can't give you all an ETA quite yet. so CCP Fozzie what is the solution you're working on? Changing all the things. Also heat. Lots and lots of heat.
lol... is this a jest or a hint maybe some work on overheating mods for longer ? |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
132
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Posted - 2012.10.01 13:25:00 -
[567] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys. Don't worry I have not forgotten this thread. I just finished reading all the posts I had missed over the weekend.
We're very aware of the issues facing armor tanking, and how those issues hurt ships like the Omen. We're working on it, although I can't give you all an ETA quite yet. Wohoo.
I will still be flying gank Thorax tho |
MIrple
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
132
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Posted - 2012.10.01 13:53:00 -
[568] - Quote
Using EVE HQ I was able to put the new ship stats in and have a peek at the new Caracal. I really like how it all works out the only question I have is. Will there be a CPU PG change on the HAM system and will there be any increase in the DPS of HAMS as well. A dual BCU HAM Caracal tops out at 350 DSP. This is a little anemic compared to the other close range weapon systems. |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
91
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Posted - 2012.10.01 13:59:00 -
[569] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Harvey James wrote:
so CCP Fozzie what is the solution you're working on?
Changing all the things. Also heat. Lots and lots of heat.
inb4 super OP vengeance |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2290
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Posted - 2012.10.01 16:27:00 -
[570] - Quote
Sigras wrote: I disagree, right now, any idiot can kite a gallente ship: 1. Turn Guns On 2. Set "Keep At Range" or "Orbit At Range" 3. ??? 4. Profit
If the gallente ships were faster but less agile than the matari ships, it would at least take intelligence and a quick eye to kite instead of just using one of the CCP prescribed buttons.
No ship should be fastest and most agile and longest ranged, and thats what the hurricane is right now (if you count the HAM drake not the HML drake)
This wouldnt make gallente ships totally OP, but it would make them more powerful than they are now, and would add some interesting risk/reward ideas for fitting IE do you want to lose some hull and a low slot for a nanofiber to counteract your agility?
Agility is one of the most important attributes for both kiting and catching kiters. The fact that you don't know this is depressing and helps kill my faith in humanity. How, exactly, do you hope to sling shot someone without great agility? You literally have no idea what you're talking about here.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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