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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Jason Sirober
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 23:10:00 -
[871] - Quote
Just tell me if I'm doing this wrong:
[NEW Stabber, New stabber] Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M NEW Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile NEW Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
2435m/s, 20.4k ehp, 285 dps.
What's wrong with the new stabber again? |
Soon Shin
Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost
199
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 23:24:00 -
[872] - Quote
Randy Wray wrote:Because let's face it: Those launcher slots on the hurricane, rupture and stabber never have been utilized and never will.
Indeed, I have never used launcher slots on my hurricane, well once, but the dps added was barely worth it when you can fit better utility.
Give the stabber another turret slot and get rid of those abysmal launcher slots. |
Gangname Style
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 23:37:00 -
[873] - Quote
Jason Sirober wrote:Just tell me if I'm doing this wrong:
[NEW Stabber, New stabber] Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M NEW Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile NEW Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
2435m/s, 20.4k ehp, 285 dps.
What's wrong with the new stabber again?
Keep in mind that in falloff your dps won't be anything near that already low 285. |
Goldensaver
Vorbild Industries Inc.
82
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 23:45:00 -
[874] - Quote
Jason Sirober wrote:Just tell me if I'm doing this wrong:
[NEW Stabber, New stabber] Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M NEW Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile NEW Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
2435m/s, 20.4k ehp, 285 dps.
What's wrong with the new stabber again? Well I just tried to EFT that, and it was over on CPU.
But if you meta the MWD, you can drop the RCU and put a nano/overdrive in place of it. Also, I'm getting more DPS than you (294).
[NEW Stabber, test] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II Overdrive Injector System II
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M NEW Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile NEW Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
24k EHP, 2739m/s, 294DPS so around 166 at 20km (assuming your target is flying at you, which either they will be doing, or they'll be running away trying to escape you).
I personally agree that the DPS of the stabber is... low at that range, but it has a surprisingly substantial tank, so after weakening the target from a range until they realized they couldn't win, you can burn in to finish them, as your DPS with RF EMP at 5km is 304. Still low, I know.
I'm in favor of a small buff to damage... not sure if I'm in favor of a fifth turret. That might add too much damage. Maybe change the ROF bonus to 7.5%. If that's not enough, try it with 5 turrets and the 5% bonus again. Keep messing around with it like that until it's in a good place |
Alara IonStorm
3408
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 23:46:00 -
[875] - Quote
Jason Sirober wrote: 2435m/s, 20.4k ehp, 285 dps.
About 200 actual DPS with falloff provided perfect tracking.
Jason Sirober wrote: Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I NEW Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile NEW Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile
RCU instead of tracking enhancer further decreases your actual DPS and using HAM's and 220mm instead of RLML and 425mm you get 20 DPS but lose all anti frigate capability and significant gun range which mean more damage lost in falloff.
Jason Sirober wrote: What's wrong with the new stabber again?
270-290 kiting DPS is a joke for a Cruiser and that number is complete and utter paper.
Around 350ish Kite and 450 close would be close to useable and significantly below the Vegabond and SFI current before buffs. If they have to drop the speed a little fine but a DPS featherweight is going to see so little use.
What is more this thing is going into the hands of the lower skilled where you are talking max skill. It could use some wiggle room. |
Gangname Style
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 23:54:00 -
[876] - Quote
confirming stabber DPS is pathetic and disgustingly low.
Get rid of the worthless one drone and buff the DPS considerably please. |
Jason Sirober
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 00:00:00 -
[877] - Quote
What I was Trying to get at here is that you can't expect it to be kiting king AND have lots of DPS... something has to give.
Yes change a missile to a turret. Also in order to fit a tank on any of the other cruisers you have to drop your guns to the smaller ones otherwise you have 14k ehp. Otherwise remove tank and then you can fit 425mm...I do think however it should get 50-100 more PG maybe even more. |
Jason Sirober
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 00:14:00 -
[878] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote: Well I just tried to EFT that, and it was over on CPU.
But if you meta the MWD, you can drop the RCU and put a nano/overdrive in place of it. Also, I'm getting more DPS than you (294).
[NEW Stabber, test] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II Overdrive Injector System II
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M NEW Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile NEW Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
24k EHP, 2739m/s, 294DPS so around 166 at 20km (assuming your target is flying at you, which either they will be doing, or they'll be running away trying to escape you).
I personally agree that the DPS of the stabber is... low at that range, but it has a surprisingly substantial tank, so after weakening the target from a range until they realized they couldn't win, you can burn in to finish them, as your DPS with RF EMP at 5km is 304. Still low, I know.
I'm in favor of a small buff to damage... not sure if I'm in favor of a fifth turret. That might add too much damage. Maybe change the ROF bonus to 7.5%. If that's not enough, try it with 5 turrets and the 5% bonus again. Keep messing around with it like that until it's in a good place
Edit: AHH, screw it. Just thought about it and that small adjustment to the bonus is only an increase of 12.5% to turret DPS. So Turret DPS would go up from ~220 with Barrage to ~242 (still around half that at 20km), and the EMP damage would only go from 278 to ~300. Another turret would help, because they get more DPS than the missiles, what with the Gyros on there.
Check again on the CPU mate, it fits. Confirmed dps at 285. Also you dont seem concerned with CAP issues...no cap = no kill |
Gangname Style
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 00:25:00 -
[879] - Quote
Jason Sirober wrote:What I was Trying to get at here is that you can't expect it to be kiting king AND have lots of DPS... something has to give.
Yes change a missile to a turret. Also in order to fit a tank on any of the other cruisers you have to drop your guns to the smaller ones otherwise you have 14k ehp. Otherwise remove tank and then you can fit 425mm...I do think however it should get 50-100 more PG maybe even more.
you can't be a kiting king if you don't do any damage.
Kiting is all about being fast and doing good damage at range.
The stabber only goes fast.
And I thought that the new cruisers were going to be useful :( |
Goldensaver
Vorbild Industries Inc.
82
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 00:32:00 -
[880] - Quote
Jason Sirober wrote:Goldensaver wrote: Well I just tried to EFT that, and it was over on CPU.
But if you meta the MWD, you can drop the RCU and put a nano/overdrive in place of it. Also, I'm getting more DPS than you (294).
[NEW Stabber, test] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II Overdrive Injector System II
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M NEW Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile NEW Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
24k EHP, 2739m/s, 294DPS so around 166 at 20km (assuming your target is flying at you, which either they will be doing, or they'll be running away trying to escape you).
I personally agree that the DPS of the stabber is... low at that range, but it has a surprisingly substantial tank, so after weakening the target from a range until they realized they couldn't win, you can burn in to finish them, as your DPS with RF EMP at 5km is 304. Still low, I know.
I'm in favor of a small buff to damage... not sure if I'm in favor of a fifth turret. That might add too much damage. Maybe change the ROF bonus to 7.5%. If that's not enough, try it with 5 turrets and the 5% bonus again. Keep messing around with it like that until it's in a good place
Edit: AHH, screw it. Just thought about it and that small adjustment to the bonus is only an increase of 12.5% to turret DPS. So Turret DPS would go up from ~220 with Barrage to ~242 (still around half that at 20km), and the EMP damage would only go from 278 to ~300. Another turret would help, because they get more DPS than the missiles, what with the Gyros on there.
Check again on the CPU mate, it fits. Confirmed dps at 285. Also you dont seem concerned with CAP issues...no cap = no kill Ah, I messed that up. Thought it was a reactor control unit, not a CPR. Also, you have plenty of cap without the cap mods. 1m24s of cap with everything running without any of the cap mods. Just pulse the MWD (run yours when they're running theirs) and you'll only run out of cap when they do. Also, you can turn off the invuln if they aren't bothering to shoot at you, giving you 1m48s without cap mods/rigs. If they're shooting at you then odds are either that they're the same exact ship, and so the greater tank from the shield rigs will help you out more, or their guns use cap and they'll run out of cap faster than you running the invuln.
And I'm still getting 294 DPS with 4 220mm's with Barrage, 2 HAM's with CN Inferno and 2 gyros on all level 5.
I just don't think it's worth it to use cap mods in PvP versus fitting more tank or damage. Maybe the CPR in the low, but definitely not the rigs. |
|
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
154
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 08:49:00 -
[881] - Quote
Gangname Style wrote:you can't be a kiting king if you don't do any damage.
Kiting is all about being fast and doing good damage at range.
The stabber only goes fast.
And I thought that the new cruisers were going to be useful :( Projecting a lot of damage and being the fastest is often considered OP. Kiting never projected so much damage.
With barrage+ 2 gyro/1TE + 2HML, the stabber will project 225dps at 18km. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
83
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 12:39:00 -
[882] - Quote
AC kiting doing very little actual damage is nothing new. Hopefully it will be stopped altogether with a TE and projectile nerf. |
Jason Sirober
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 12:46:00 -
[883] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:[ Ah, I messed that up. Thought it was a reactor control unit, not a CPR. Also, you have plenty of cap without the cap mods. 1m24s of cap with everything running without any of the cap mods. Just pulse the MWD (run yours when they're running theirs) and you'll only run out of cap when they do. Also, you can turn off the invuln if they aren't bothering to shoot at you, giving you 1m48s without cap mods/rigs. If they're shooting at you then odds are either that they're the same exact ship, and so the greater tank from the shield rigs will help you out more, or their guns use cap and they'll run out of cap faster than you running the invuln.
And I'm still getting 294 DPS with 4 220mm's with Barrage, 2 HAM's with CN Inferno and 2 gyros on all level 5.
I just don't think it's worth it to use cap mods in PvP versus fitting more tank or damage. Maybe the CPR in the low, but definitely not the rigs. Ok If you put it that way then yes I see why you won't need cap mods. +1 to you |
Gangname Style
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 13:09:00 -
[884] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Gangname Style wrote:you can't be a kiting king if you don't do any damage.
Kiting is all about being fast and doing good damage at range.
The stabber only goes fast.
And I thought that the new cruisers were going to be useful :( Projecting a lot of damage and being the fastest is often considered OP. Kiting never projected so much damage. With barrage+ 2 gyro/1TE + 2HML, the stabber will project 225dps at 18km.
Any missile boat or even a thorax will make short work of that ship.
Esp since blasters are now wtfrange with null. |
Jason Sirober
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 15:24:00 -
[885] - Quote
Gangname Style wrote: Any missile boat or even a thorax will make short work of that ship.
Esp since blasters are now wtfrange with null.
Please do post a 18km Null-toting blaster fit Thorax. I'm dying to see that. |
Wivabel
Exanimo Inc Unclaimed.
40
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 15:37:00 -
[886] - Quote
Jason Sirober wrote:Gangname Style wrote: Any missile boat or even a thorax will make short work of that ship.
Esp since blasters are now wtfrange with null.
Please do post a 18km Null-toting blaster fit Thorax. I'm dying to see that.
Yay for alliance bro post.
To be a part of future EVE intrigue check us out. Sov in the south. Small gang pew is what we do when we not defending lovely space.-á
http://exanimo.enjin.com/page/150364/recruitment-á |
MIrple
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
160
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 15:39:00 -
[887] - Quote
Looking at the numbers I would not be against giving the stabber 25m3 drone bay or 5% ROF to launchers
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Alara IonStorm
3410
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 15:50:00 -
[888] - Quote
Jason Sirober wrote:Please do post a 18km Null-toting blaster fit Thorax. I'm dying to see that. Best I could come up with is 27dps at 18km with heavy ion II's... [Thorax, Null Kite] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Warrior II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5
It does more DPS at 18km then the Stabber with Warriors and ECM Drones. Much more if you use Valk's or Hammers which you don't seem apposed to because you HAM's on your ship. |
Dato Koppla
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
95
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 15:56:00 -
[889] - Quote
I'd say changing the 5% bonus to a 7.5% bonus is the best idea, and instead of a dronebay, I'm thinking move 1 high to a low, with some increased fitting, too much? |
Jason Sirober
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 16:14:00 -
[890] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote: [Thorax, Null Kite] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Warrior II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5
It does more DPS at 18km then the Stabber with Warriors and ECM Drones. Much more if you use Valk's or Hammers which you don't seem apposed to because you HAM's on your ship.
Nice fit. You skimped a bit on your tank though. Aslo please tell me how you envisage kiting a much faster ship than yourself? |
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Dato Koppla
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
95
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 16:22:00 -
[891] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Jason Sirober wrote:Please do post a 18km Null-toting blaster fit Thorax. I'm dying to see that. Best I could come up with is 27dps at 18km with heavy ion II's... [Thorax, Null Kite] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I Medium Ancillary Current Router I Warrior II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 It does more DPS at 18km then the Stabber with Warriors and ECM Drones. Much more if you use Valk's or Hammers which you don't seem apposed to because you HAM's on your ship.
Yeah but it is pretty low on EHP, I'd say close to my proposed Stabber fit which admittedly has less dps at 18km, but it starts to even out more at 24km, and with the TD in the mix it's no challenge. Also speed advantage and drone dps can be easily taken out.
This is all from very rough numbers though, feel free to correct me. |
Alara IonStorm
3410
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 16:33:00 -
[892] - Quote
Jason Sirober wrote: Nice fit. You skimped a bit on your tank though. Aslo please tell me how you envisage kiting a much faster ship than yourself?
Well the Stabber is no faster then current and everyone flies the Rupture as a kiter which is much, much slower so I am going to say I won't be fighting any Stabber because no one will be using Stabbers. If I do I am okay to watch them all run away simply enough.
The Thorax is a short range Cruiser with no range bonuses like the Stabber has out dmging the Stabber inside WD range with shorter range guns. It is faster then most current used Kiters in the game and it is better at both kiting and brawling in one fit.
Dato Koppla wrote: Yeah but it is pretty low on EHP, I'd say close to my proposed Stabber fit which admittedly has less dps at 18km, but it starts to even out more at 24km, and with the TD in the mix it's no challenge. Also speed advantage and drone dps can be easily taken out.
So fit the Thorax with a TD. Launch more Drones or pull back the Warriors that are being Dmg'd. I have had people try to off my drones a lot and I am not worried at all.
Outside of magical 1v1 the pathetic Dmg is a magic bullet that will pull this ship from use. Simply put the Stabber even at max skill does terrible Dmg and few people at max skill are even going to bother with the Stabber. So tell me as a new PvP'er that just got Cruisers what chance do you think you will have to find yourself in a Stabber that will do almost no DPS.
Stabber is terrible. It should be good. They should make it good. I don't care if they have to nerf some of that useless speed that hasn't helped it so far. |
Jason Sirober
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 16:50:00 -
[893] - Quote
Since you put it like that I have to agree with you. |
Gangname Style
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 16:59:00 -
[894] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote: Stabber is terrible.
+200
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Deena Amaj
Community for Justice Resurrection by Election
35
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 17:40:00 -
[895] - Quote
Randy Wray wrote:Deena Amaj wrote:There are so many ships that apply drones that it makes me wonder what makes Gallente "Gallente". I'd not want to see drones on the Stabber with these new bonuses.
UNLESS
If drones/bandwith are to be on just about every ship of eve , then apply more of the rare drone specific bonuses than the typical ones that had been around for ages.
Rough example: Stabber, Falloff and Drone Speed bonus.
And just lower overall HP (or not, as it is already a DPS-reduction for not having the Rate of Fire bonus).
Whatever way around, that falloff bonus is quite a big change - at least making the ship really efficient in hit and run. I wouldn't want to see the Stabber with too many features, but that has to apply to other similar "attack cruisers". How did you even come to think off this? The only case where I can see this being beneficial is if it got a 50 m3 drone bay, which wouldn't make any sense! The ship would be even more useless than it is right now on TQ! (Ive gotten kills in a stabber, but believe me its hard.) As mentioned earlier in the thread the stabber build currently on duality suffers from some very basic problems like having so great speed it spoils its own tracking (425mms with barrage really suck at tracking) and simply not living up to the capabilities of the other cruisers,
I forgot to add additional drone bay capacity to the bandwidth. With the slight reduction in EHP to compensate the Speed/Utility features, the idea was to have a Stabber that has the Falloff Range and medium drones that are fast enough to keep up with the Stabber. Granted, Valkyries have a base speed of some 2km/s.
But just a reminder, my post was related to the discussion above regarding "More drones for ships/stabber".
Yes, 425mm + Barrage punishes tracking, but that is the point of balance. The thing is that Stabber shouldn't be that much of a brawler as the Rupture is clearly the one for such a task.
A lot of ships have more than enough drones and I just find if somebody considers adding drones to Stabber, then also apply a drone specific buff. Yes, Drone Speed does not mean damage, but things go on like how people are complaining about, every ship will end up being the same - minus the hull-chassis ****.
Not to forget that that 5m-¦ drone is not quite much of a help. There may be heroic warstories of that single drone back then, but if it can be dropped for something else cool, I'd say go for it. Same for the RoF ship bonus. I know it is for raising Base DPS, but it would be cool to see a different bonus. Again, that Drone Speed bonus of course only makes sense if there is something like a 40m-¦ drone bay - as a no-brainer wills it.
But being blunt about drones, the Thorax, Vexor and Celestis should clearly be drone kings. I'd almost dare say a seperate, third bonus for the drones alone, to really show that Gallente have the overhand when it comes to drones. This would require the other 3 factions to have something as well - but that is wishful thinking and off topic. confirthisposmed
I'm probably typing on a Tablet too, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them. |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
116
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 20:32:00 -
[896] - Quote
I will repeat the most glorious way to fix the Stabber: Splitweapon glory !
Everything else will just be molding the Stabber either into a kind of Thorax or a kind of Rupture... |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
157
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 21:41:00 -
[897] - Quote
I made some calculation for the stabber : First, the important numbers :
0,25*falloff = dps*0,95 0,5*falloff = dps*0,8 0,75*falloff = dps*0,6 falloff = dps*0,4 2HML = 50dps 5 valkyries = 125dps@3000m/s 5 hammerheads = 155dps@2100/s 5 hobgobelins = 100dps@4200m/s
Fit are Alara's Thorax vs 220mm+2HML stabber (2gyro/1TE and 1gyro/2TE) vs 425mm stabber (2gyro/1TE and 1gyro/2TE).
Now, the numbers : stab220+2HML = 218@17km (EMP) = 226@18km (barrage) 2TE = 236@15km (EMP) = 200@21km (barrage) stab425= 175@18km (EMP) = 186@19km (barrage) 2TE = 195@16km (EMP) = 195@14km (barrage) = 155@24km (barrage) kitythorax= 219@18km (null sans drones) = 292@15km (null sans drones) = 146@22km (null sans drones)
Best stabber fit in this matchup is 220mm+HML/2TE. The Thorax is saved by its drones. Without them, it's pretty even and if the stabber stay at 20km, he can win. With lower damage drones (light drones/valkyries) the ammo damage type and ehp could make the difference.
Notice however that the stabber have its speed advantage : he can decide whether to take the fight or not and can disengage at will unless he is fully tackled (not by this thorax).
Thoug, such performances from a Thorax are a bit disturbing.
Anyway, if the Stabber lack something, it's very not by a lot IMO. Engagement choice is still a powerful ability. |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
157
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 22:02:00 -
[898] - Quote
Looking again at my numbers, a 425mm stabber with 2HML and 1gyro/2TE could take on this thorax IMO. It's very close fight, and the farther you are, the better, and you have the ammo type advantage, though you are deep in falloff and in border of point range and your tank is the same or worse than the thorax (2ACR rigs). You may want to try to fool the Thorax's tracking while you kill the drones, because you have the tracking advantage.
Very tough fight though. |
Krell Kroenen
Miners In Possession Brothers of Apocrypha.
68
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 22:20:00 -
[899] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Looking again at my numbers, a 425mm stabber with 2HML and 1gyro/2TE could take on this thorax IMO. It's very close fight, and the farther you are, the better, and you have the ammo type advantage, though you are deep in falloff and in border of point range and your tank is the same or worse than the thorax (2ACR rigs). You may want to try to fool the Thorax's tracking while you kill the drones, because you have the tracking advantage.
Very tough fight though.
So in this perfect storm of a fight with room to kite and wherein you have an experienced pilot with proper fitting skills. He might do okay against this thorax fit that has no friends in range to help him as you slowly whittle him down. I won't argue against that. But unless CCP wants stabbers to be flown only by vets that are too poor to buy a proper vagabond they may want to make some changes to it. |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
157
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Posted - 2012.11.07 23:03:00 -
[900] - Quote
Krell Kroenen wrote:So in this perfect storm of a fight with room to kite and wherein you have an experienced pilot with proper fitting skills. He might do okay against this thorax fit that has no friends in range to help it as the stabber slowly whittle it down all the while staying in point range and fending off drones. I won't argue that it can't be done. But unless CCP want stabbers to be flown only by vets that are too poor to buy a proper vagabond they may want to make some changes to it. We are speaking here about a kiting ship trying to kite a kiting ship.
Why should the stabber be the fastest cruiser (by a very large margin) and also be the best kiter ? What will become the other cruisers if the stabber finaly get it's damage buff and end having the most damage at range ? What will be able to kill such a stabber ? |
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