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RRNL
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.27 11:46:00 -
[1]
The jump range need some love. With jdc 5 u can jump 4.5 ly max. I think covert cyno's will be more populair if the max range get a boost. Im thinking of max jumprange of 12 - 20 ly's. Maybe adding a special Black Op jump range skill to make this happen. Another level 14 skill that takes ages too learn to L5. Or just increasing base jumprange of 2 ly.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
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Posted - 2009.11.08 20:57:00 -
[2]
they could use a little boost |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.08 23:25:00 -
[3]
12-20 light years?!?! No way! That is way over powered. Now I would be more for a 25% boost in range max. It is a battleship, not a capital ship. Change your proposal to something more reasonable and I will give it a thumbs up.
Why are goons crying the most over the new sovereignty changes?
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.09 16:08:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Marlona Sky 12-20 light years?!?! No way! That is way over powered. Now I would be more for a 25% boost in range max. It is a battleship, not a capital ship. Change your proposal to something more reasonable and I will give it a thumbs up.
Yes u might be right, but they certainly need a boost according to the Qen Q3
"The least popular ship group that we can report on was the Black Ops battleship, with only 225 characters piloting them at the time of the snapshot."
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ZigZag Joe
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.10 02:11:00 -
[5]
Blackops need the most:
Hp buffed to at least the same as their t1 hulls. Some t2 racial resists. 40/20 would be excellent. Improved jump range (4 - 6.5ly base) Useful t2 bonuses Jump portal functioning with standard cyno gens (pos mod) Additional turret on panther.
Currently, the blackops can't even jump/bridge over most border systems, supposedly one of the main uses of BOs. At best, they can bridge about 3 jumps (in-region jumps), which is more or less useless. Never mind any sort of normal travel via jump drive is impossible, again due to horrid range.
Widow is the only ship that has functional t2 bonuses, agility bonuses? speed bonuses? wtf? The redeemer's bonus is at least not completely useless, but the rest.... ugh.
I'd propose something like:
Redeemer:
7.5% to large energy tracking, 10% to large energy optimal per level
Sin
7.5% to drone mwd speed per level, +10km drone control range per level
Panther
7.5% to large projectile tracking, 10% to large projectile falloff per level
Widow
30% bonus to ECM target jammer strength, 10% to cruise missile and torpedo flight time per level
The sin will always be sub-par as a black ops due to using drones: impossible to stay aloof because you can't align with sentries and/or have to wait for heavies to return. Panther could use another turret and/or being changed to be a shield tank ship. Thankfully, the AC fix panthers wont be too badly off
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.11.10 03:48:00 -
[6]
Quote: Maybe they need a new role in general (like the stealth bombers) or just some more tweaking, examle, the jump range need some love. With jdc 5 u can jump 4.5 ly max. I think covert cyno's will be more populair if the max range get a boost.
No they simply need to get unnerfed. They originally nerfed the stats because they thought they'd become the OMGSOLOPWNMOBILE.
1. Maximum Target Range nerfed vs t1 variant. Which is crazy. afaik no other t2 ship had this happen. 2. 25% @ lvl 5 Agility bonus on sin; yet 50% more mass. 3. Non-existent t2 resistances 10% for kin? meh? 4. 20% less armor/shields/strucutre then t1 5. Less powergrid yet more slots 6. less guns
That's for the sin moreso. Which is what I fly. Just for comparison. I happen to be in my oneiros atm as logistics 5 is almost done and i'm changing my fitting slightly. Anyway. Oneiros has...
1. 33% more maximum targeting range over t1 2. Oneiros is slightly less agile. but fairly acceptable. Plus oneiros generally matched up with command ships and battleships. So not an issue. 3. 48.75% more kin res vs 10% more for sin AND 32.5% more thermal res vs NO CHANGE for thermal on sin 4. 33% more armor/shields/structure then t1 5. has fitting bonus over t1 6. well gets 4 large rr vs 1 large rr or 4 large rr to 4 medium rr.
So how about we unnerf these? We dont need to talk about making them jump further or such.
Quote: Improved jump range (4 - 6.5ly base)
That really only may lead to other issues i wont mention.
Quote: Jump portal functioning with standard cyno gens (pos mod)
Black ops and titans can lock onto any sort of cyno. including beacons.
My suggestion would be the allowance for black ops to lock onto ANY alliance beacon. Regardless of alliance association. Which isnt that overpowered as you cant exactly move much to that enemy pos; that the pos cant alpha.
Quote: Currently, the blackops can't even jump/bridge over most border systems, supposedly one of the main uses of BOs. At best, they can bridge about 3 jumps (in-region jumps), which is more or less useless. Never mind any sort of normal travel via jump drive is impossible, again due to horrid range.
This is true. However by design sadly.
Quote: Sin 7.5% to drone mwd speed per level, +10km drone control range per level
This isnt that bad. Then again. I really like the agility. Cloaked velocity is fairly useless. On a ship so fat Anyway. Presumably. You jump into a camp. You ab/mwd-cloak and even with all that. You really arent going to get away from inties who run at you. The cloaked velocity would only work if it was like 1,000% per level. Then you're practically nano while cloaked. Which would be very fun but I cant see that happen.
THERE ARE MORE TITANS THEN BLACK OPS! ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
ZigZag Joe
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.10 06:18:00 -
[7]
Oops, forgot support.
They can't bridge to cyno gens (ccp did a dirty hack and made the bridge a passive mod so you can't).
The agility is nice, but really useless frankly. (this coming from someone with a sin) Only thing i've used it lately is a glorified loot transport: warps faster than a cs with a built in cloak-warp trick and more ehp. lol.
Being able to jump farther is critical for them to be of any use. If they can't jump/portal (portal range tied to jump range) a decent distance, un-nerfed or not they would still be more or less useless in the role ccp would like to see.
Oh, as far as the covops cloak stuff goes: Meh. It would be nice, but balancing it would be somewhat hard. I'd rather see jumping and ship stats addressed first.
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Curse VonPilgrim
Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.10 16:07:00 -
[8]
Totaly agree on the part bout boosting would be more fun
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Vall Kor
Minmatar Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2009.11.10 23:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: ZigZag Joe Blackops need the most:
Hp buffed to at least the same as their t1 hulls. Some t2 racial resists. 40/20 would be excellent. Improved jump range (4 - 6.5ly base) Useful t2 bonuses Jump portal functioning with standard cyno gens (pos mod) Additional turret on panther.
Currently, the blackops can't even jump/bridge over most border systems, supposedly one of the main uses of BOs. At best, they can bridge about 3 jumps (in-region jumps), which is more or less useless. Never mind any sort of normal travel via jump drive is impossible, again due to horrid range.
Widow is the only ship that has functional t2 bonuses, agility bonuses? speed bonuses? wtf? The redeemer's bonus is at least not completely useless, but the rest.... ugh.
I'd propose something like:
Redeemer:
7.5% to large energy tracking, 10% to large energy optimal per level
Sin
7.5% to drone mwd speed per level, +10km drone control range per level
Panther
7.5% to large projectile tracking, 10% to large projectile falloff per level
Widow
30% bonus to ECM target jammer strength, 10% to cruise missile and torpedo flight time per level
The sin will always be sub-par as a black ops due to using drones: impossible to stay aloof because you can't align with sentries and/or have to wait for heavies to return. Panther could use another turret and/or being changed to be a shield tank ship. Thankfully, the AC fix panthers wont be too badly off
I agree with this. I think they need real bonuses. I would like to see combat recons be allowed to use the bridge also. That would mix the clandestine fleet up a bit. "By way of deception, thou shalt do war"
My Blog
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Yon Krum
The Knights Templar R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2009.11.11 04:52:00 -
[10]
I would agree to boosting the black ops only if there were concurrent defenses implemented to provide both:
a) On-grid cloaking detection/aoe decloaking possibilities.
b) Sovereignty holder anti-afk cloaker possibilities.
Currently the black-ops is primarily a logistical tool for SB/recon gangs, and for that they are very effective. If there were tools to counter cloakers, offensively, not just using bait and hoping they make a mistake, then I'd be all-for increasing their jump/portal range far enough to make some of the very long inter-region leaps such as to the drone region from the north.
--Krum --Krum |
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Dave Meltdown
Capital Construction Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 11:45:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Dave Meltdown on 14/11/2009 11:45:25 yes they need some more love. Black Ops have great abiblities that comes with alot of skills that u need to train. The currenty form of black ops just dont make it worth training, buying them for 800m and use them.
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TimMc
Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 12:12:00 -
[12]
Originally by: ZigZag Joe Blackops need the most:
Hp buffed to at least the same as their t1 hulls. Some t2 racial resists. 40/20 would be excellent. Improved jump range (4 - 6.5ly base) Useful t2 bonuses Jump portal functioning with standard cyno gens (pos mod) Additional turret on panther.
hawt. Supporting this.
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Odetta Harpy
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Posted - 2009.11.14 13:39:00 -
[13]
Black ops do need alot of love before they will be used in any great numbers. I personaly think they should be based on more DPS as they are more like hit and run ships, sneaking up on someone then hitting them round the back of the head with a hammer comes to mind. But but at the moment they cant do hit and run because they can only fit a normal cloak instead of a covert ops,they are stuck waiting at gates instead. Also i wouldnt mind them being given a role bonus od 99% reduction in fitting needs of warfare links for a second role of FC ship for a covert fleet.
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Denga Vulture
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:46:00 -
[14]
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Vincent Gaines
Dirt Nap Squad
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:09:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 14/11/2009 20:12:02 I support any BO boost.
the pre-nerf needs to be removed, the range is meh but ok. It's a battleship, not a cap.
Leave it skill intensive, that will prevent mass proliferation.
They're not going to be solopwnmobiles, but WILL be useful. Any solo BO will remain a juicy target.
300-350mil is a good target cost. Do this then un-nerf it. At least the sin and panther. |
Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.11.14 21:30:00 -
[16]
i was honestly shocked when i looked at there combat capabilities... I do not fly one, but the fact that they have ess powergrid for fitting, less Hp, makes them made of paper, and less guns, means they cannot even stand up to regular dirt cheap Battleship in combat, and they cost about a bill. Give em proper stats please! ! Fix Destroyers |
Todd Cale
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Posted - 2009.11.16 22:41:00 -
[17]
bump!
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Dr T
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Posted - 2009.11.16 22:44:00 -
[18]
i want blackops boost...immideately!!!! i want it...and you ccp should do it...because(see what i want)...so..do that dodododo!!!!! you have a lot reasons to do that...and main one - is my wish!
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Promephius
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:19:00 -
[19]
It definitely needs a boost to make the ship more worth while. At the moment its just a expensive battle ship with jump drive attached......
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TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.21 12:17:00 -
[20]
I support giving blackops a little love. They could handle a bit more jump range, a bit more EHP, a bit more DPS without becoming overpowered.
I don't think many people will frontline them (preferring to bridge a fleet into battle and remain safe in another system) but if they are a little bit better than their T1 hulls that might happen more often.
I have a BO pilot trained but I've not yet bought the ship...
Vote TeaDaze for CSM #4
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Mike Azariah
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Posted - 2009.11.21 15:20:00 -
[21]
I think ccp summed it up best and drew the wrong conclusion.
If there are so few Black Ops ships in the game, less than even the Titans then that is NOT the reason to let is sit in the corner alone like some ugly stepchild . . . that is the reason to go back and give it some loving to bring it back into the fold.
If they are so committed to making ships begin to have specialized roles then ask what role the BO's should have and address the question of whether the current design does make someone look to this ship for that role or not.
Yes, they need someone looking into this.
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Marcus Henik
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Posted - 2009.11.21 21:36:00 -
[22]
Supported, up the jump range so that it can fill its intended role. cov ops cloak would be nice, and for god's sake please bump their base stats up so that they can be a match for their t1 counterparts. either that or mke a drastic reduction in the overall price of the ship, I think the main thing that is killing black ops is the billion isk price tag for a ship that has a nifty trick for its size. compaired to what else I can get my hands on for that amount of isk (carrier, marauder, some of the cheaper dreads,) and the capabilitys that these ships offer compaired to their simarly priced counterpart its just not worth the investment.
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Ryan Powers
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.22 06:26:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Ryan Powers on 22/11/2009 06:26:14 /signed.
I'm Caldari and even I don't want to fly a Widow. :[ Free Abathur! |
Lusulpher
Blackwater Syndicate Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.11.23 05:38:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Lusulpher on 23/11/2009 05:41:09
Originally by: Yon Krum I would agree to boosting the black ops only if there were concurrent defenses implemented to provide both:
a) On-grid cloaking detection/aoe decloaking possibilities.
b) Sovereignty holder anti-afk cloaker possibilities.
Currently the black-ops is primarily a logistical tool for SB/recon gangs, and for that they are very effective. If there were tools to counter cloakers, offensively, not just using bait and hoping they make a mistake, then I'd be all-for increasing their jump/portal range far enough to make some of the very long inter-region leaps such as to the drone region from the north.
--Krum
They are not more popular than Titans, so no BO defenses are even needed yet, you have to worry about the Titans first...priorities.
Anti-cloaking abilities need to go to those nimble[useless] dessies.
Seriously, having a jump portal ship that can't jump to NEXT DOOR is hilariously fail.
And the fuel consumption, Jesus, we are green tech in the future. High mileage, weak dps/ decent tank(to call in help and bait even). The first iteration was low mileage/weak dps/weak tank. HIGH price, so that you can stare at people?
Who thought that up?
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Deadly Hobbitses
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.24 00:52:00 -
[25]
My wish list for Black Ops, given they truely suck as is...
- Increase Fuel bay to 4km3 - What is the point of being able to fit a jump portal mod if your gang exhausts the fuel the first time you jump. These ships should be able to work in 0.0 without having to be refueled every time the gang needs to move somewhere. As-is, you either need a gang member to bring along a transport ship or you fit cargo expanders, either is a poor choice.
- Tanking - None of them can do this effectively unless it is all they do, and even then it is sub-par compared to their T1 or even faction equivalents. Tanking a Redeemer is an effort in futility. Tanking Sin & Panther require the use of Crystal implants and deadspace modules to get anywhere near being effective. The Widow, while able to tank, sacrifices all of its EW role in doing so.
- Fitting - This is another barrier to those who might have been wanting to fly a black ops. Using the Redeemer as an example, you need to waste your rig slots on reducing the CPU usage of your guns if you wish to fit T2 weapons and anything resembling a tank at the same time. Even then you must use faction mods if you want to have any form of tackle.
- Covert Cynosural Field Generation - DO NOT reduce the skill requirements for using these mods. Not everything in this game should be available to the random pubbie at a weeks notice. What does need to be changed though is the inability of transport ships and strategic cruisers with the covert subsystem to fit them. If a ship can go through the portal, it should be able to light a cyno for it as well. Should this be changed, some of the transport ships would need to be given an additional high slot so they can still fit their cloaks while filling this role.
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MonwrathDisortium
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.11.24 04:28:00 -
[26]
If nothing else BO need a longer jump range, at least on par with a dread.
I would like to see it warp cloaked as well but the jump range is the main complaint I have about my sin.
__________________________________________________
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.28 11:31:00 -
[27]
Originally by: MonwrathDisortium
I would like to see it warp cloaked as well but the jump range is the main complaint I have about my sin.
Im flying the sin aswell and im still wondering what is its role. It isnt tanking, it isnt dps, it isnt logistic, so wtf is it?
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Unfamed II
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.11.28 15:04:00 -
[28]
I love my +5% speed per BO skill level. Rank10 lol. (no, i don't, give something more useful please) Jump range could use a very small boost. Just a tiny bit more. Supporting this.
Originally by: Sandslinger of CA
So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
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AndzX11
Caldari Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.29 19:38:00 -
[29]
Known facts about black ops are:
They jump in, blow something up, jump out. Hit and run. I don't see where the tank is actually needed. DPS wise all of them can get 700-800.
So let's say a black ops fleet of 5 jumps in to gank a Rorqual or a ratting BS from a constellation that's near another and has blocked, defended gates in between... Do you need a tank to kill a rorq or any t1/t2 bs with 5 x 700 DPS black ops ships? Most will go down even with just 2 Black Ops BS shooting them very quickly.
For any operations where resistance is expected you will simply have to be more tactical about it. The more numbers game doesn't work with B-Ops. Is that bad or good? I think it's great.
The jump range could be 2.5 or 3 light years - but that's just a maybe.
The only real change I'd suggest is remove the Sin's drone damage bonus and it's drone bay. Just because Dominix was drone dependent doesn't mean that Sin has to be.
Now we have these bonuses on Sin: 4 Turrets
5% velocity/125% cloaked velocity modifier 5% to large hybrid turret damage & 10% per level to drone damage/hp
Afterwards: 5 turrets
5% velocity/125% cloaked velocity modifier 5% to hybrid turret damage & 5% to rate of fire
125m3 drone bay with 75 or 100Mbit/s(like T2 mega).
All in all if Sin would receive such a change it would be without the drone damage disability that slows donw hit and run operations and be like the other B-Ops ships.
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ZigZag Joe
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.30 10:31:00 -
[30]
Originally by: AndzX11 Known facts about black ops are:
They jump in, blow something up, jump out. Hit and run. I don't see where the tank is actually needed. DPS wise all of them can get 700-800.
So let's say a black ops fleet of 5 jumps in to gank a Rorqual or a ratting BS from a constellation that's near another and has blocked, defended gates in between... Do you need a tank to kill a rorq or any t1/t2 bs with 5 x 700 DPS black ops ships? Most will go down even with just 2 Black Ops BS shooting them very quickly.
For any operations where resistance is expected you will simply have to be more tactical about it. The more numbers game doesn't work with B-Ops. Is that bad or good? I think it's great.
The jump range could be 2.5 or 3 light years - but that's just a maybe.
The only real change I'd suggest is remove the Sin's drone damage bonus and it's drone bay. Just because Dominix was drone dependent doesn't mean that Sin has to be.
Now we have these bonuses on Sin: 4 Turrets
5% velocity/125% cloaked velocity modifier 5% to large hybrid turret damage & 10% per level to drone damage/hp
Afterwards: 5 turrets
5% velocity/125% cloaked velocity modifier 5% to hybrid turret damage & 5% to rate of fire
125m3 drone bay with 75 or 100Mbit/s(like T2 mega).
All in all if Sin would receive such a change it would be without the drone damage disability that slows donw hit and run operations and be like the other B-Ops ships.
Yes, black ops don't really need to tank but they should atleast have some t2 resists + the same hp as their t1 counterparts.
The main thing that kills them is ****ty bonuses, and horrible jump range. Sin is additionally disadvantaged due to drones and even as a gunship it would be rather subpar with rails being rather low dps but blasters can't reach 20km either. Rest of them can easily get about 25km range with their short range weapons.
Also, panther needs another turret and being changed to a shield tank (lows -> mids)
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iam nameless
Disgruntled Pilots Syndicate Retribution.
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Posted - 2009.11.30 12:36:00 -
[31]
this
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Dirkfall
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Posted - 2009.12.01 14:16:00 -
[32]
this |
Mr Xanatos
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Posted - 2009.12.01 14:26:00 -
[33]
700 mil waste of iskies.
My Sin has been sitting in the hanger for months. Did a couple of SB hot drops one day for the fun of it, thats about it really, the Sin stayed in hi sec all plated up for fear of gankers. No way id take it into low sec due to its fail combat stats.
I think my mains corp has a small pos that needs fuel so I might bridge a couple cov haulers from hi sec to the pos to refuel it. Then ill park her till next month when the pos cries again.
Black Ops needs a lot of luv |
Alexis Zalman
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Posted - 2009.12.01 15:00:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Mr Xanatos 700 mil waste of iskies.
My Sin has been sitting in the hanger for months. Did a couple of SB hot drops one day for the fun of it, thats about it really,
I've been having my sin for about 5 months, only use of it is for hotdroping with bombers, and this rarely happens, due to laughtable jump range.
BOs beed 10ly jump range after skills apply, better resists and Cov ops cloaks. I know this was highly disputed since they were introduced, but we've seen by now that ragular cloaks don't cut it. And since they are outperformed in tank and DPS by their T1 counterparts, cov ops cloaks will give em more situation to be useful in, instead of making them any kind of solopwnmobile.
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davet517
Raata Invicti Undivided
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Posted - 2009.12.01 17:48:00 -
[35]
Edited by: davet517 on 01/12/2009 17:54:21 I unwisely started training for the Widow as soon as they were announced. I've used it for its intended purpose a handfull of times, and was disappointed when I did.
They need a better jump range and fuel capacity (either increased hold or decreased consumption). Not being able to make many region jumps defeats the primary role of these ships. I don't think Dread range is unreasonable for a ship whose hull costs as much as some carrier hulls.
They need to warp cloaked. Being the only ship in a black-ops gang that can't makes using them, even in a recon and bomber gang, a minus in many cases.
They either need their HP restored, or they need T2 resists and command-ship-like mass and agility.
Look at what the ship costs. To justify that cost, the benefit that they provide needs to be a "must have". In other words, nobody would even consider taking out a recon and bomber gang without a Black-Ops. That isn't the case now. Not even close. ---------------- We're recruiting quality players. Check us out. |
Dave Meltdown
Capital Construction Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.02 16:04:00 -
[36]
Maybe it is a idea to add the titan cloak restriction to the black ops and give them cov op cloak. The titan cloak restriclion for 10 min after u have fired the dd is actualy what u need to make cov op black ops not to over powered.
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Arcane Azmadi
First Flying Wing Inc Primary.
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Posted - 2009.12.02 21:46:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Arcane Azmadi on 02/12/2009 21:46:14 Oh hell yes, this needs to be done ASAP! I think the simple problem is that they're WEAKER IN COMBAT THAN T1 BS, despite being 10-20 times as expensive and taking 50 times as long to train for. Yes, I know their primary role is not as a combat vessel, which is good because currently they're PATHETIC.
They're T2 battleships! We should be getting what we pay for here. Make them at least as tough as the T1 equivalents.
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Z0D
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Posted - 2009.12.02 23:40:00 -
[38]
Issue supported and raised for meeting 2.
Wiki page here pending approval. Click below for my manifesto.
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Soldarius
Black Ops Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.03 04:45:00 -
[39]
As a Caldari pilot heavily invested into covert/black ops and such, I cannot stress how important it is to have the right tools. The Black Ops battleship concept is fabulous. The implementation is EPIC FAIL!
Just in general, there is no doubt that any T2 ship should have superior stats than its T1 base. Having sub-par hp is inexcusable. Give them at least the same structure and armor as T1, if not more. Give them T2 resists. I don't expect them to go toe-to-toe with a Golem or Rohk. That is not their role. But they are battleships for crying out loud, not battle-cruisers.
The role is called Black Ops. They are supposed to drop ships in behind enemy lines, follow, wreak havoc, then get everyone the hell out. Why do they not have covert cloak when every other ship in that role does? Another fail. Make it happen.
Jump gate range is too short. 1 or 2 jumps for range is totally fail. May as well just use the darn gates. Oh, wait. No covert ops cloak. FAIL!
Price tag = cha-ching! $$$$$$$$$$$. Are you kidding? No one flies these, not because they are hard to produce, very rare, or even difficult to find. But because they suck. With so little demand for them, why are they still so expensive? Manufacturers should be giving these away by now! Slash prices to increase purchase incentive. More folks will buy them and perhaps find more inventive ways to use them.
Fail x4 = EPIC FAIL. These issues can be fixed easily. So lets make it happen.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.12.04 23:05:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 04/12/2009 23:08:58
Originally by: Z0D Issue supported and raised for meeting 2.
Wiki page here pending approval.
Looking forward towards the minutes
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Kyle Cataclysm
Blue.
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Posted - 2009.12.05 01:59:00 -
[41]
supported
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Dave Meltdown
Capital Construction Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.06 11:04:00 -
[42]
omg page 3
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Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.12.12 22:26:00 -
[43]
Haha, I actually got two characters who both can fly black ops (Redeemer and Panther), so I guess I should have a pretty high interest in supporting this issue. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.12.22 16:17:00 -
[44]
This has been passed by the CSM with 9 votes for and 0 against. More input about what to change always welcome, lets help ccp abit with sorting out stuff they needed to do ages ago...
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Kiithnaras
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2009.12.22 16:42:00 -
[45]
---Short List for the ADD--- Improved Jumprange Reduced Mass Recon Resists Covert Cynos in Highsec Lower Bridging Costs Panther and Sin Lovin' ----------------------------
I support this thought a hundred percent. Black ops would really benefit from Recon resists, improved jump range, and reduced mass (equal or less than T1 equivalent). Those three things across the board would make them much more useful. The other thing that should be extended to all black ops is the ability to light covert cynos in highsec (Seeing as covert cynos circumvent any form of cynojamming - they implemented that, right?). One more thing - I've always said that Covert Jump Portals should have their jumpPortalConsumptionMassFactor dropped from 1.8e-07 to 1.0e-07, in effect reducing the total amount of isotopes needed to bridge some of the bigger ships like force recons and black ops. That would make the cost to bridge, say, a Falcon just slightly more than jumping the black ops itself the same distance.
The Sin and Panther do need a bit of love. I would say with the panther that it would be okay to keep the bonuses as-is except swap the 5% velocity for 10% falloff and add an additional turret. With the Sin, some sort of additional drone or hybrid-based bonus would be good in place of the agility. Either some sort of control range bonus or optimal/tracking bonus for guns.
And I am one of those rare Panther pilots. It's fun, but I rarely use it.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2009.12.23 23:22:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 23/12/2009 23:25:16 Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 23/12/2009 23:22:34
Originally by: Kiithnaras
The Sin and Panther do need a bit of love. I would say with the panther that it would be okay to keep the bonuses as-is except swap the 5% velocity for 10% falloff and add an additional turret. With the Sin, some sort of additional drone or hybrid-based bonus would be good in place of the agility. Either some sort of control range bonus or optimal/tracking bonus for guns.
I think the complete Shiphull is wrong. Drones are not the right type for the job. Swapping the Sin hull for a Megathron would be better. The Black Op bonus should be a turret falloff bonus so its inline with the other Black Ops.
- Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to large hybrid turret damage and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per skill level
- Black Ops Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to large hybrid turret falloff per level and multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level
The Black Op bonus gives the pilot the option for more range and reduced damage or more damage and shorter range. However this all should be balanced out.
I totaly agree on these things:
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SebbyTheFreak
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2009.12.24 16:49:00 -
[47]
Edited by: SebbyTheFreak on 24/12/2009 16:49:22 They could AT LEAST have warfare links...
Like... the only way to have a warfare link in a blop gang is with a t3 cruiser...
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van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc Blade.
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Posted - 2009.12.28 11:40:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kiithnaras
---Short List for the ADD--- Improved Jumprange Reduced Mass Recon Resists Covert Cynos in Highsec Lower Bridging Costs Panther and Sin Lovin' ----------------------------
Your post has virtually everything needed to create a viable and fun Black Ops experience. They don't need more HP and they don't need more DPS. What they do need is better range and better fuel economy. Add to that the ability to use Covert Cynos in Highsec, then they're golden. The only thing I would like to add is that they remove the scan resolution penalty from cloaks.
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Dierdra Vaal
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.12.28 12:12:00 -
[49]
I think allowing covert cynos into high sec will make them more useful as that will allow for a more surprise warfare in high sec space. This was suggested to CCP by CSM3 and CCP was favourable towards the idea. Director of Education :: EVE University
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Shepard Book
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.12.28 14:39:00 -
[50]
Cov op cloaks, one more tank slot, and give Sin and Panther bigger drone bays is my vote.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.12.28 17:58:00 -
[51]
I can fly a BO. When I heard they were coming, I was excited... then I noticed the jump range and didn't get one.
I have seen BOs used. However considering the effort and expense and the actual results they had, the traditional "bait then bring in the fleet" method would have worked better.
Because of the SP and isk sunk into running a BO gang, there are generally only a few groups who do them in any given location. So, after running a BO gang a few times, the locals get wise and reverse the trap, trapping and eventually killing the BOs.
They need love. Range would make a huge difference. At the very least, enough range would make it significantly harder to track down the BOs that are bridging the gang in.
Fix Local |
Mike Roche
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.12.28 18:16:00 -
[52]
Blackops? Need more damage, flexability and EW to make up for poor tanks.
They are deployed for hit and run in gangs and all offer heavy duty gunnary DPS and some EW (not quite in the same class as recons) as well as command abilities:
Redeemer: 7.5% to large energy damage, 7.5% to large energy tracking, 10% to neut amount per level Sin: 7.5% to large hybrid damage, 7.5% to large hybrid tracking, 10% to warp disruption per level (screw drones give it 6 guns) Panther: 7.5% to large projectile damage, 20% to large projectile falloff, 10% to webifier range per level Widow: 5% to hybrid optimal, 5% to hybrid damage per level, 30% bonus to ECM target jammer strength
All of these ships should have 6 gun slots and 2 utility slots, they should also require command skills and be able to fit command modules (fitting usage reduction as per command ships).
New penalty to even things up -20% to active tank repair/boost (not sure if this should include remote repping too, probably) this in addition to their poor natural tank means that deploying them means weighing up the odds!
I also think the jump portal should give 100% more range but the whole fleet must jump through, including the black ops, if you are going to engage, do it and do it together and risk it, then jump out together if it lives!
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.12.28 18:54:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Mike Roche Blackops? they should also require command skills and be able to fit command modules (fitting usage reduction as per command ships).
Yeah, that would only make sense if the BO could turn itself inside out and jump through the bridge it made. If black ops had to, titans would also have to. In both cases, I think the pilots of said ships would not like this idea.
Fix Local |
Mike Roche
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.12.28 19:42:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Bagehi
Originally by: Mike Roche Blackops? they should also require command skills and be able to fit command modules (fitting usage reduction as per command ships).
Yeah, that would only make sense if the BO could turn itself inside out and jump through the bridge it made. If black ops had to, titans would also have to. In both cases, I think the pilots of said ships would not like this idea.
Hi bagehi, I'll talk to you on vent tonight with my main :)
I think titans should also have to use the jb when it is activated and move the whole fleet in one basicly it would open up a oversized wormhole and pull all fleet ships into it within a certain range. The idea of having a ship that basicly just sits around bridging people is annoying to me. In terms of physics.. creating wormholes basicly are turning yourself and space time inside out punching a hole in it and so going through the short way. So it is no more bizarre or unrealistic then that.
If you are in a fleet and are moving the fleet you should move with it, this would give more consequences tactics and basicly fun and risk to using this.
Plus the epicness of having a titan drop on you with a fleet. Same goes for black ops to a lesser extent.
Besides I digress. Black ops need to be the core of any black ops group not just sitting at a pos bridging stuff a pitiful distance and (rarely) failing in combat when actually used at the right time.
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Mystified
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.01.11 14:53:00 -
[55]
Have a discussion thread here about this as well:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1243868
The T1 battleships are more powerful than the BO. I bought one when they first came out and it has sat in my hangar collecting dust because it's pretty close to useless
Personally, I would like to see a Cov Op cloak and more stats in line with the tech level of the BO. Jump range would be nice and maybe better mileage as well.
For those of you who think it will be overpowered - with just better resists, longer jump range, and a cov op cloak it still won't be able to compete with a T1 BS (but, it will at least have a chance to get away)
It's my Character and I will play it how I want. |
Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.01.11 16:35:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Mike Roche Widow: 5% to hybrid optimal, 5% to hybrid damage per level, 30% bonus to ECM target jammer strength
Why would you give hybrid boni to a scorpion hull?
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H3llHound
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
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Posted - 2010.01.11 17:14:00 -
[57]
BO need a boost. Maybe double the jumprange to 9 ly on jdc5. Give them a HP buff and review the T2 resists on them. __________________________________________________
We are Recruiting |
Juwi Kotch
Fiat Iustitia
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Posted - 2010.01.11 18:44:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Juwi Kotch on 11/01/2010 18:45:41
Black Ops Ships were really cool when the idea came out. But CCP nerved them to oblivion. The role they were assigned to cannot be fulfilled by them, and for any other use they are too weak and too expensive. Pity, really, and no wonder that more Titans are flown in game than Black Ops Ships.
Do anything to them, regardless what, what gives them a use and a purpose based on their cyno and jump capabilities. EWAR is one of the ideas, for instance. Or something completely new and unique, like the ability to cloak during a fight or something. Anything. Or remove them from the game totally, keep those abominations out of our sight.
Support the Bounty Hunter Profession! |
Tuvar Hiede
Snuggle Muffins
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Posted - 2010.01.11 20:02:00 -
[59]
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.01.20 23:00:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 20/01/2010 23:00:23 yay, ccp gave them some love: "patches notes dominion 1.1: òShips with a Covert Jump Portal Generator can now bridge to a Cynosural Generator Array as well as a Cynosural Field."
However they need more love, they are still broken....
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.02.09 21:42:00 -
[61]
bumpies
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Flying ZombieJesus
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Posted - 2010.02.10 13:48:00 -
[62]
like to see the sin's base model switched to the mega; blasters over drones. The sin is only really useful to bridge stealth bombers, as it can't do hit and run like the other three black ops
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Newbee
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Posted - 2010.02.11 14:10:00 -
[63]
sorry but having more titans than blackops ingame is really... FAIL --> boost blackops
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Ithaki
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.12 23:20:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Ithaki on 12/02/2010 23:19:59 Make Black Ops the only type of vessel that can scan out another cloaker, should make things more interesting... ow and give the darn ship a covops cloak so it can move around in enemy space. And you thought you where safe at home? |
Lord Helghast
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Posted - 2010.02.12 23:25:00 -
[65]
isn't that always how it is they try to "not make a solo pwn ship" and instead they nerf the **** out of a ship till no one ever wants to fly it, and some races seem to get hit even worse than others
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Liol Wongsta
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.13 18:14:00 -
[66]
Covert cloak - Not fussed. Increase jump range by minimum 50% - YES. Can covert cyno into hisec space - YES. Reduce fuel usage by 60% and then BO led gangs are viable - YES Warfare links - YES PLEASE, but can understand why they wouldn't be added. HP / resists are a no brainer - Increase them above t1 hulls. Can fit probe launcher to scan out Cloakers - WIN. Watch BO numbers climb above carriers then. (make it massively skill intensive and KEEP it there however.
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van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc Blade.
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Posted - 2010.02.13 19:01:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Liol Wongsta Covert cloak - Not fussed. Increase jump range by minimum 50% - YES. Can covert cyno into hisec space - YES. Reduce fuel usage by 60% and then BO led gangs are viable - YES Warfare links - YES PLEASE, but can understand why they wouldn't be added. HP / resists are a no brainer - Increase them above t1 hulls. Can fit probe launcher to scan out Cloakers - WIN. Watch BO numbers climb above carriers then. (make it massively skill intensive and KEEP it there however.
This. Don't really care about the resist, but the rest, it seems so obvious.
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EdTeach
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Posted - 2010.02.15 03:57:00 -
[68]
Things I would change re: Black Ops ...
Covert Ops Cloak - As has been stated ad nauseum, why does the leader of a covert ops gang not have the same basic ability as the rest of the gang? If you have to balance it somehow.. remove 75m3 of drone bay from each Black Ops to 'make room' for cpu banks for Covert Ops Cloak. "A hiding ship launches no drones" should be on a plaque above every Black Ops command chair.
Jump Range - Again, it has been stated many times before. It needs to be able to do its job.
Fuel Use - Lowering the amount needed per ship, or raising the amount carried in Fuel bay would be nice. But, if the first two suggestions are implemented I feel that either there will be more Black Ops around to help, or folks won't mind bringing along a Blockade Runner to carry supplies.
----
As far as resists, ehp and dps... I have no problem keeping them either close to or exactly where they are(for now). This ship type is designed for a purpose. I do not believe that purpose is going 1v1 or toe-to-toe with anything... ever. Fitting the Covert Ops Cloak would greatly reduce the ship's vulnerability and any need to take or give damage.
You want to make it more survivable? Maybe give it a +2 warp strength. He who cloaks and warps away... lives to bridge his whole gang out.
I would like to see it become the support vessel it can be, without becoming a ship that pilots would to take into a real battle. You wouldn't throw your reppers out in front would you? I think the same concept applies here. Make the ship too valuable and fragile to risk in open combat, but not in a monetary sense. It should be your ride home, take care of it.
Covert cloak, range and fuel first, then let the dust settle to see if needs more love in the resists, ehp and dps department.
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foksieloy
Universal Army Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.15 09:30:00 -
[69]
Somehow i think black ops should be taken in the SB direction.
Make them paper thin DPS machines that can sneak in, call in more paper thin friends, make a blow, then run away... unless caught, which causes them to die horribly.
But in general, just the jump range, and maybe bit more tought out bonuses should do it for now. _______________________ We come for our people! |
Flying ZombieJesus
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Posted - 2010.02.16 16:27:00 -
[70]
Originally by: foksieloy Somehow i think black ops should be taken in the SB direction.
Make them paper thin DPS machines that can sneak in, call in more paper thin friends, make a blow, then run away... unless caught, which causes them to die horribly.
But in general, just the jump range, and maybe bit more tought out bonuses should do it for now.
They're already pretty paper thin - going even moreso would make them hard to use, as they're 650mil each. Losing even one of them means that you lost the battle, so they have to be a little resilient.
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Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.02.17 15:25:00 -
[71]
I agree, let it be able to probe out cloaked ships, require Astrometrics V .
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Zurin Arctus
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Posted - 2010.02.17 19:54:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Xtover I agree, let it be able to probe out cloaked ships, require Astrometrics V .
Idea of giving Black Ops a boost supported, but Xtover is a ****tard.
Issue one: According to CCP, the current database/server structuring does not allow people to query the location of cloaked ships. Everything would have to be overhauled to allow this.
Issue two: Even if it were feasible, would you really want to break cloaking by allowing anyone to scan down a cloaked ship? Bad idea and you should feel bad.
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Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.02.17 20:32:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Xtover on 17/02/2010 20:33:43
Originally by: Zurin Arctus
Originally by: Xtover I agree, let it be able to probe out cloaked ships, require Astrometrics V .
Idea of giving Black Ops a boost supported, but Xtover is a ****tard.
Wow you shoot the messenger too, eh? How DARE someone support a topic you don't agree with!
Quote: Issue one: According to CCP, the current database/server structuring does not allow people to query the location of cloaked ships. Everything would have to be overhauled to allow this.
[citation needed]
if there's no query showing how to find cloaked ships, however every ship and every item in a system has a coordinate. look it up when you make a bookmark. It's not in place but can be. I'd LOVE to see that quote. Please find it for me.
Quote:
Issue two: Even if it were feasible, would you really want to break cloaking by allowing anyone to scan down a cloaked ship? Bad idea and you should feel bad.
It's not breaking cloaking. it's taking a BLACK OPS VESSEL TO HUNT DOWN ANOTHER. it's a ship that costs anywhere from half to three-quarters of a billion isk (more than a carrier, for example), and that currently less people own than own titans in the game... LESS THAN 300 PEOPLE FLY THEM, and most don't want to train for it let alone spend the ISK.
First, I love everything cloaky. over 90% of my main's kills are in bombers.
I however also can fly a widow and would love to see it more useful instead of sitting in a station.
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Saerynn
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.02.19 17:06:00 -
[74]
Supporting significantly more love for BOBS to justify the cost and training. To start: - COCD - Increased base jump range - Increased fuel bay - Reduced portal consumption - T2 resists
I'd also like to see CCP revisit the bonuses and slot layouts on a per-ship basis, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I don't support allowing covert cynos in high-sec.
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Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.02.19 17:09:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Saerynn Supporting significantly more love for BOBS to justify the cost and training. To start: - COCD - Increased base jump range - Increased fuel bay - Reduced portal consumption - T2 resists
I'd also like to see CCP revisit the bonuses and slot layouts on a per-ship basis, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I don't support allowing covert cynos in high-sec.
I'd like to retract my support for allowing probing of cloaked ships, and reserve that for a new T2 destroyer class.
However I support the above, AND cynos in hisec. The only reason they're not allowed is because empires have "cynojammed every hisec system"
since they can bypass cynojammers, it only makes sense.
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Saerynn
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.02.19 17:21:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Xtover The only reason they're not allowed is because empires have "cynojammed every hisec system"
since they can bypass cynojammers, it only makes sense.
I agree that makes sense from a role/backstory basis (and TBH it would probably be fun) - I don't support it because I suspect it would lead to a proliferation of BOBS-based ganks in high-sec, eventual cries of "OMG OP" and ultimately being nerfed to worse than they are now. |
Graugaard
Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.19 17:23:00 -
[77]
I would start actually flying a redeemer if CCP did some love. /signed *sigh* |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.02.23 16:19:00 -
[78]
bumpie cause they are stil broken
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.02.23 22:01:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 23/02/2010 22:02:49
Originally by: Saerynn
Originally by: Xtover The only reason they're not allowed is because empires have "cynojammed every hisec system"
since they can bypass cynojammers, it only makes sense.
I agree that makes sense from a role/backstory basis (and TBH it would probably be fun) - I don't support it because I suspect it would lead to a proliferation of BOBS-based ganks in high-sec, eventual cries of "OMG OP" and ultimately being nerfed to worse than they are now.
Maybe limit the use to sec status, only allow Covert cyno's in 0.5 or .06 systems. Maybe allow covert cyno also to be used in mission/ trough gates aswell... Gives advantages and risk,.... bypassing ship restrictions but also allow hot drop risk. The last thing would be hard to implement, maybe allow them only in L4 missions.
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Javelin6
Dirt Nap Squad
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Posted - 2010.02.28 09:53:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Javelin6 on 28/02/2010 09:54:03 Since Black-Ops are being reviewed thanks to the CSM, He is my personal wish list:
- Swap the cloaked velocity bonus for a jump/portal range bonus.
- Remove scan resolution penalty for fitting cloaking devices.
- Swap Panther speed bonus for a projectile tracking bonus.
- Swap Sin agility bonus for hybrid ROF or tracking bonus.
- Use standard T2 resists for all Black-Ops Battleships
____________________________________________
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.02.28 11:08:00 -
[81]
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Melcairwen Taldir
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Posted - 2010.02.28 12:25:00 -
[82]
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Mistress Frome
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.02.28 23:38:00 -
[83]
Should give them more base jump range than carriers imo.
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Hun Jakuza
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2010.03.01 06:45:00 -
[84]
No thx. Not need more hotdrop for cloaky sh*t
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Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.01 06:46:00 -
[85]
No way
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
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Posted - 2010.03.01 07:17:00 -
[86]
Edited by: SkwisgaarSkwigelf on 01/03/2010 07:24:45 Panther and Sin need some major love still. Speed bonus? Lame.
Covops cloaks, I think yes.
Jump range... that's a tough one to make a call on.
The ability to scan down cloakers would be a nice counter, but would have to be evaluated carefully. Personally I would like to see a covops style t2 battlecruiser, maybe that would be a good role for such a ship. (T2 hurricane? pure sex!)
*EDIT* Nevermind. I re-evaluated my edit and edited it out.
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Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.03.01 12:35:00 -
[87]
Originally by: SkwisgaarSkwigelf Edited by: SkwisgaarSkwigelf on 01/03/2010 07:24:45 Panther and Sin need some major love still. Speed bonus? Lame.
Covops cloaks, I think yes.
Jump range... that's a tough one to make a call on.
The ability to scan down cloakers would be a nice counter, but would have to be evaluated carefully. Personally I would like to see a covops style t2 battlecruiser, maybe that would be a good role for such a ship. (T2 hurricane? pure sex!)
*EDIT* Nevermind. I re-evaluated my edit and edited it out.
not at T2 BC, a T2 destroyer- but anyway.
a covops cloak is a must have to the BOBS- sure it's powerful but also super expensive and skill-intensive.
as to jump range... 2ly is horrible. with JDC IV I can jump 13ly with a carrier.
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Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.03.01 12:47:00 -
[88]
Just make them worth to be used for their price tag+sp need.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.03.07 22:34:00 -
[89]
just bumping it up again to remind ccp what to do else beside fixing lag issues for next patch, more input always welcome to speed up the process
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.03.08 19:21:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen just bumping it up again to remind ccp what to do else beside fixing lag issues for next patch, more input always welcome to speed up the process
See CSM minutes :)
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
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Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.03.08 19:24:00 -
[91]
The CSM minutes didn't really give any info.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.03.09 15:13:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Xtover The CSM minutes didn't really give any info.
Then I suggest you read them again =p unless of course you want to know exactly how they wil be fixed - but I doubt even CCP knows that at this time.
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
Asterisk Grat
Best Path Inc. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.11 00:47:00 -
[93]
Black op are mostly ok as is, could use a few changes in its class though to make them more cool.
Changes I'd like to see:
1. Give them better T2 resistances 2. Give them more damage+tracking etc bonuses - remove cloaked velocity if you have to, who uses it? 3. Better targeting range and sensor resolution 3. Longer jump range? sure why not
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Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.03.14 15:52:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Xtover The CSM minutes didn't really give any info.
Then I suggest you read them again =p unless of course you want to know exactly how they wil be fixed - but I doubt even CCP knows that at this time.
yeah, that's kinda where I was going with that. Maybe a HINT.
I have the ISK ready to grab another widow, when it's viable.
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Al'kanree
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Posted - 2010.03.15 12:42:00 -
[95]
Increase the fuel bay.
supported
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Raetherana
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Posted - 2010.03.26 21:30:00 -
[96]
Increase fuel bay or decrease consumption needs - I don't want to have to put 7 expanded cargoholds to have enough fuel bay to jump a fleet.
its BLACK OPS - Black Ops is supposed to be the mother of all covert ops, and it doesnt have a Covert Ops cloak or a cloaking bubble to cloak a fleet.
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ghosttr
Amarr Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2010.03.27 08:18:00 -
[97]
I agree that black ops need a good looking over, but I wouldnt go sofar as to completely rebalance them. (tho i agree with the jumprange changes)
I would try to get them in the hands of more people first, then balance them as needed. I dont think a black ops (a T2 tier 1 bs) should cost more than a marauder (a T2 tier 2 bs), especially with demand as low as it is, not to mention the risk in flying a black ops in its intended role.
Adjust the black ops so that the build costs (at current demand) is somwhere around 300mil. And see what happens first, I think alot of people would be willing to fly them but as they currently are the costs and risk far outwieghs any benefits of flying the damn thing.
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Asterisk Grat
Best Path Inc. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.28 04:01:00 -
[98]
something I noticed, panther out of all black ops has the lowest targeting range.
At level 5 it has 60km targeting range. Pretty suck.
I think CCP took hull BSs targeting range and decreased it by 20%. why such penalty I don't know, this needs to improve imo.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.04.03 10:48:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 03/04/2010 10:48:14 still crap, ccp
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Julius Perfecto
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Posted - 2010.04.04 18:30:00 -
[100]
Even an idustriallist like me can see this need support
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.04.24 11:10:00 -
[101]
Anyone want to start a bet about when ccp will fix it?
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greymouse
Black Eclipse Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.24 14:44:00 -
[102]
/supported
Cry Havoc!! Release the Mice of Menace!!! |
Centurax
Eve Engineering
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Posted - 2010.04.25 20:34:00 -
[103]
I want to make some changes to the Back ops as part of my CSM campaign. I want to give the Black ops ships Covert Ops Cloak capability, increased jump range and remove the targeting delay. It might also benefit from a Marauder style bonus of 100% to weapons damage and limit the weapon slots to 4. This ship could them be used for raiding more effectively, hit and run on Outposts and jump out before your enemy can respond seems like a good role for this ship.
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Dogfighter
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Posted - 2010.04.26 11:37:00 -
[104]
These ships are crap, specially the Sin. Please review.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.05.02 21:18:00 -
[105]
Dear CCP,
Incase u worried that u have forgot to implement something,
bumpies
/hemmo
ps: i know your wathing this section of the forums pss: Someone got more great idea's, spam them here and give slow old grumpy CCP a hand
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Tibalt Avalon
Suck my Titan
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Posted - 2010.05.03 05:50:00 -
[106]
Supporting Your Sexual Thread. Hardstyle Ambassador |
Tibalt Avalon
Suck my Titan
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Posted - 2010.05.03 05:55:00 -
[107]
Supporting Your Sexual Thread. Hardstyle Ambassador |
ma perke
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Posted - 2010.05.04 15:01:00 -
[108]
Black ops need some very specific boost:
if you have ever been in a sb gang you would know that 95% of time you spend making bookmarks. Black Ops should be specialized ship for sb gang commander with particular functions for managing sb gang as:
- faster sb deployment - i.e. faster creation of bookmarks for fleet members - more accurate sb deploument - ability to warp/fleet warp at distance to moving targets(ships) - cov ops cloak is a must - no need for high dps - dps will come from sb fleet
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EdTeach
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Posted - 2010.05.05 21:18:00 -
[109]
Edited by: EdTeach on 05/05/2010 21:19:01 Same reply as every other Black Ops thread...
Do NOT make them any better at offense or defense.
DO give them more range for jump and/or better fuel usage for jumping the gang.
DO give them covert ops cloak.
DO make them cheaper(less mats for build)
It is a fragile special use ship. It is designed to get groups where they could not usually travel, and do it covertly. The whole 'covert' concept goes out the window when a Black Ops has to warp anywhere at present.
If Black Ops are given better resists and/or DPS they will become PvP ships, which we have plenty of already. Not every ship in the game needs to be a damage dealer.
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Esheleen
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Posted - 2010.05.06 10:14:00 -
[110]
Trained for one, decided not to bother buying one. Fully support a boost to these ships |
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Nerogk Shorn
Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.05.07 03:24:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Nerogk Shorn on 07/05/2010 03:24:38 I can fly one, but still haven't bought one. Partly because of the fact that the ships statistics and bonuses are confused and not very relevant to the ships' roles. They just don't seem very good, and they are so rarely used other than just bridging a cloaky gang.
The Bulbasaur Wizard D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
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Killer Gandry
TerraNovae
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Posted - 2010.05.07 17:56:00 -
[112]
Trained for it, bought it and sold it as quick as hell.
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Asterisk Grat
Best Path Inc. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.07 21:05:00 -
[113]
Do not support Covert Ops Cloaking on Black Ops. It's pretty obvious if CCP gives it covops cloak DPS will but cut in half. This ships needs other useful boosts with it's role.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.05.19 15:14:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 19/05/2010 15:15:08 I bet 50 mil that ccp is not going to fix it with tyrannis. Makes me wonder why there is a CSM since this problem has been disscussed in Iceland for over 2 times now.
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Gneeznow
Ship spinners inc
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Posted - 2010.05.20 09:08:00 -
[115]
these ships are so bad I completely forgot they were ingame
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Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.05.20 09:36:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Asterisk Grat Do not support Covert Ops Cloaking on Black Ops. It's pretty obvious if CCP gives it covops cloak DPS will but cut in half. This ships needs other useful boosts with it's role.
Like stealth bombers?
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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Marquis Zenas
I.X Research
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Posted - 2010.05.20 09:53:00 -
[117]
Definitely need a boost. I've had a redeemer kicing about for ages. My suggestions:
Leave cloaking as it is Remove weapon bonuses Add bonuses to increase sensor strength per level (harder to probe out) and/or reduce signature radius Small increase to jump range
Other alternative options for thought: The black ops feels like a covert support ship not an all out combat ship - probably should only be warping in to battle after the stealth bombers and recons have decimated the field and its arrival is purely to mop up the survivors.
Add bonuses to remote repair - not as much as logistics but enough to support the covert fleet for extended engagements.
Possibly even allow it fit a gang assist module -------------------------- The sig is empty |
Ugly Eric
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Posted - 2010.05.21 05:41:00 -
[118]
My idea of pimping the BOBS are quite different and not thought completely thru. They might not be thought on all sides of the coin, so if they are crap, do kill me (ingame) in horrible flames of death ;)
- Give them the allready earlier discussed cloacky bubble with slight implemention. Let the bubble cloak all uncloaked and uncloak all cloaked :) It would be a way to find cloakers. Easy, just fly randomly thru a system with AFK cloaker until you find it ;-) The cloaky bubble has few problems I were unable to find a satifying solution. A) If the bubble is 20km and there are 10 ships inside it, how to prevent uncloaking each other, or would it be ok to crash and still remain cloacked if inside bubble? B) If somebody is targetted, would it still cloak him? C) The size of the bubble? 5km, 15km, 55km? D) Should it need fuel?
- Give them a AoE weapon, maybe as simple as let them fit bomb launcher? Maybe new kind of bombs to BOBS usage only? A bomb that is immune to SB bombs, but not to other BOBS bombs? So that in a regular SB bombage, you could get one bomb more shot.
- It really needs to be able to fit warfare links. As for now a Cloacky sneaky gang is getting deacent gang bonuses only, if there is a skilled enough t3 pilot abroad, and frankly, quite often those t3's are fitted to something completely else (I may be wrong here, but doesn't the covert reconfiguration sub go to same slot as the one that makes warfarelink usage possible?). There could be created a bunch (three) new warfare links designed to covert usage. ... erh. ok the minmatar links are pretty awesome to SB gang already :p Speed, sig radius and propulsion jamming range. They really dont need anything else :) Should be so, that a BOBS giving fleet bonuses works only on a ship where is fitted covert cloaking device.
- Give the BOBS the covert cloak
- DO NOT give the BOBS more hp/resists/DPS. Leave it as it is, but give it some useful things, like those warfare links or the cloaky bubble.
- Give them increased fuel bay, so that it actually can "roam" around without a bunch of transport alts, but do not lower the fuel usage.
- Also increase slightly the jump range. Not too much, but so, that it would be a little more useful.
These were my thoughts of the Black ops battle ship pimpages. I know there may be some, that are technically impossible or it would ruin gamebalance completely, but as I have no experience flying a BOBS, only been jumped by one few times, so these are the things I realized. Also I think that in place of increased DPS/tank it should be given some more unique bonuses that fits into its role better.
Ugly Eric
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Dephlan Gruss
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Posted - 2010.05.22 17:12:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Dephlan Gruss on 22/05/2010 17:12:17 DO give them covert ops cloak.
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menacemyth
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Posted - 2010.05.23 08:34:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Lusulpher Edited by: Lusulpher on 23/11/2009 05:41:09
Originally by: Yon Krum I would agree to boosting the black ops only if there were concurrent defenses implemented to provide both:
a) On-grid cloaking detection/aoe decloaking possibilities.
b) Sovereignty holder anti-afk cloaker possibilities.
Currently the black-ops is primarily a logistical tool for SB/recon gangs, and for that they are very effective. If there were tools to counter cloakers, offensively, not just using bait and hoping they make a mistake, then I'd be all-for increasing their jump/portal range far enough to make some of the very long inter-region leaps such as to the drone region from the north.
--Krum
They are not more popular than Titans, so no BO defenses are even needed yet, you have to worry about the Titans first...priorities.
Anti-cloaking abilities need to go to those nimble[useless] dessies.
Seriously, having a jump portal ship that can't jump to NEXT DOOR is hilariously fail.
And the fuel consumption, Jesus, we are green tech in the future. High mileage, weak dps/ decent tank(to call in help and bait even). The first iteration was low mileage/weak dps/weak tank. HIGH price, so that you can stare at people?
Who thought that up?
sums it up perfectly. Tell your friends, we need more support! I might run for next CSM on this issue if it hasn't been fixed.
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jimmybeech
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.05.23 12:16:00 -
[121]
I have a widow and it needs some lov. Because Its only got 4 low slots you cant put on 7 cargo expanders like the other bo's... so you cant hold enouth fuel to be usefull. please please reduce the consumption amount for bridging! the jump range is also pathetic.. atleast 6-8ly please! and please give it t2 resists.. its worth nearly a billion isk for god sake. Cov-ops cloak would be usefull...its the olny ship in the stealth gang that cant fit one and its the most expensive. the no targting delay after de-cloak is pointless... you dont tackle in a 700-bil isk ship with 30-50k ehp.. so whats the point.
-Reduce consumption for bridging by atleast half... so you can bridge a gang back again without 7 expanders. if you cant carry 30k iso... you need to use less. 6666 is useless atm.
-Increase jump range and bridge range to atleast 6-8ly with skills.. it will then be worth bridging! be able to bridge to any cyno/beacon. bridging 3 jumps is just stupid.. its not worth the cost of the fuel you dont have enouth of.
-T2 resists so its less fragile!
-covert ops cloak would be realy helpfull for its role but not essential. its so slow and has such a big sig radious i cant see why not?
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.06.05 11:03:00 -
[122]
still not fixed
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Oljud Zork
Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.05 23:24:00 -
[123]
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CorryBasler
Amarr Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.06.18 17:46:00 -
[124]
i agree, mabe i would accauly fly my redeemer if it was more epic
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Spugg Galdon
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Posted - 2010.06.19 21:41:00 -
[125]
Make covert cyno's in hi sec possible. I mean, why the hell not. It will add a whole new dimension to hi sec wars.
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cBOLTSON
Shadow Legion. Talos Coalition
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Posted - 2010.06.20 03:33:00 -
[126]
Black ops certianly need looking at. I would say probably more than any other ship in game currently.
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Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2010.06.20 13:37:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 09/11/2009 22:36:14 Qen Q3
"The least popular ship group that we can report on was the Black Ops battleship, with only 225 characters piloting them at the time of the snapshot."
The above means that there are even moar titans piloted at the time of the snapshot than Black Ops...
Unlike Titan pilots Black Ops pilot aren't prisoners of their ship, so this comparison is pretty moot. The QEN numbers would be a lot more useful if they gave the number of chars owning a Black Ops. But the the QEN is mostly about delivering irrelevant numbers. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog |
Memorya
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Posted - 2010.06.21 21:38:00 -
[128]
+1 ------------------------ "English is a funny language; that explains why we park our car on the driveway and drive our car on the parkway."
English is my 5th. Language.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.06.30 13:52:00 -
[129]
still broken
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Poje
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Posted - 2010.06.30 14:37:00 -
[130]
JUMP RANGE !
Thats it.
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El Liptonez
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Posted - 2010.06.30 14:58:00 -
[131]
Yes, jump range. 50% seem like a good figure, more would be too much in my opinion. It's still a battleship.
The only issues I really have are #1, the missing T2 resists (I don't undestand how those could be left out) and the bad HP, respectively. And #2, the fuel use. That is just ridiculous. Let's take a Prorator with 11k cargohold as example, 5 recons and 10 bombers will deplete all the fuel in about 5 long jumps?
Reducing the fuel use to a ridiculously low amount would even negate the lacking jump range for me.
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Janos Saal
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Posted - 2010.07.01 00:31:00 -
[132]
Any improvement would be an improvement.
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Rahnim
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Posted - 2010.07.01 05:21:00 -
[133]
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xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.01 10:09:00 -
[134]
Black Ops skill bonus: +5% jump range per level
Also make Jump Portal Generation affect isotope fuel usage instead of just Strontium usage for titan JPGs.
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Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2010.07.01 10:18:00 -
[135]
Originally by: ZigZag Joe Blackops need the most:
Hp buffed to at least the same as their t1 hulls. Some t2 racial resists. 40/20 would be excellent. Improved jump range (4 - 6.5ly base) Useful t2 bonuses Jump portal functioning with standard cyno gens (pos mod) Additional turret on panther.
This.
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Geanos
Phoenix Tribe Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.07.01 10:42:00 -
[136]
Increase jump rage by at least 50% but keep portal range same as it is now. If you want to gank at greater distance, then put the BO on the front line.
Increase gank but keep resistances as they are now. BO's would fit well in the assasin's role with more gank than tank (strike covertly deep within enemy lines).
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Ardetia
Killer Koalas R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.07.02 21:10:00 -
[137]
Please! Please! Please, CCP! Im begging you - make some much needed changes to these ships! Ive been training for months to get into one, so please: Fix this ship at least within 2010. I dont want to wait years to play in a shiptype i actually like.
At the very least increase the jumprange and make bridge activation cost not so hurtful for everything above frigate I'd say base jumprange 3ly, to a maximum of 6.75ly, as that is still not enough to traverse huge amount of space And less than titan jumprange, which is pretty hillarious if you ask me :)
Finally, they need _alot_ more HP than they have now. At least 25% total hp buff. Although im not really asking for anything other than jumprange boost at the moment. Im having a hard time being useful, and the plea is simple: I want to be able to use the ship i like the most.
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Janos Saal
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Posted - 2010.07.03 02:36:00 -
[138]
Let them create jump portals in high sec. That's probably all the buff they need.
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Slick O'Hara
The Sons of Anarchy.
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Posted - 2010.07.03 17:16:00 -
[139]
Supported
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TopShatta
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.07.09 15:34:00 -
[140]
fix them pls
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athieros meritar
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Posted - 2010.07.14 13:14:00 -
[141]
These ships are designed for raiding behind enemy lines, as mentioned some regional jumps are massive.
Can't imagine the SAS or Delta force being too chuffed if they could only "just" get behind enemy lines or "sorry sarge the borders too far away to rescue the hostage"
Spec ops vehicles are normally more lightly armoured but have a hard punch
Range, HI Sec jumps and Damage bonus. Job done.
Ath
that's what's needed
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Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.07.14 19:43:00 -
[142]
boost them pls
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Alias Forgotten
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Posted - 2010.07.16 20:07:00 -
[143]
Black Ops + Damage + Command link modules + Covert Ops Cloak + Reduce fuel consumption
They don't need more tank - they should be fragile , they get to pick their fights.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.07.17 10:16:00 -
[144]
The main problem that I see with them, is that they generally have less damage/tank than their T1 counterparts. While the ability to bridge and move fast'ish under cloak has some value, it still is not enough to make people want to follow the bombers/recons through the looking glass.
They NEED to be worth risking in combat so that they jump with the herd. - Give them Marauder gun bonus while keeping high-slot # (lots more utility highs for supporting friendlies). - Increase base attributes (hull/armour/shields) to T1 level. Not as if they have full T2 resist bonuses so will only barely top T1. - Increase damage, the more damage the less need for tank so above can be reduced. an/or, - Make them gang friendly with partial bonuses borrowed from the various Titans or ability to use gang-links.
They make great bridge ships, now lets make them great at killing/dying as well!
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Trankimazin
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Posted - 2010.07.18 00:27:00 -
[145]
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James Arget
Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.07.18 01:27:00 -
[146]
Better resists, better fitting, better jump range. Extra DPS would be nice, but better targetting so it can be a RR/support ship for the Covert fleet would be nicer I think.
But I'd rather you just give it a covops cloak.
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
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Posted - 2010.07.18 13:20:00 -
[147]
Big Bump
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Der Valkirie
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Posted - 2010.07.21 19:12:00 -
[148]
Did not realize that you could not fit a cloak to a Black OP's BS. Have just wasted 40+ days of training to find that I would be flying ship inferior in most respects to my current BS. I whole heartedly agree that the ability to cloak would make this type of ship more useful.
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wr3cks
Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.07.21 22:11:00 -
[149]
4.5 LY is a joke. Triple it.
But even then, they'll just be used as cheap titans for bombers and recons. Definitely buff the resists and agility; probably give them a covops cloak, too.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.07.26 13:15:00 -
[150]
9 months passed, discussed twice in iceland, still no change. Will incarna give us a change?
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Corlan Dashiva
Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2010.07.27 03:28:00 -
[151]
Save the BOps! __________________________________________ |
Fak Jaelt
Cabal Armaments
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Posted - 2010.07.27 08:22:00 -
[152]
Just started flying a Sin and I now realize how terribly weak it is in many ways. Supporting change to black ops. |
Orb Lati
ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.29 23:36:00 -
[153]
I'm going to go out on a limb here. While I do agree that the black ops need some kind of buff, I don't think it should be the ability to use a covert cloak.
IMHO the role of the black ops is primary the ability to move covert ships around via jump portals. However the issue there is the low risk associated with a covert ops "hotdrop", The aggressor has the initiative to pick that low risk moment to spring a hot drop on a target.
The inability of a black ops to warp around cloaked means that there is a risk associated with using them. An example being to rescue stranded covert ships in a camped system.
The buffs i would be looking at is fuel consumption/fuel capacity and jump ranges. The jump portal is a blackops one unique feature and it is there you should be looking to buff it.
"We worship Strength because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Ghurthe
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Posted - 2010.07.30 06:39:00 -
[154]
I've flown the Sin and the Widow. I've never once considered using them as anything other than a platform to insert bombers into a fight via black ops cyno.
They're terribly expensive, very crunchy, and have such tiny fuel holds it's embarassing.
If they're not going to be improved as combat vessels at least step them all up to the widows usefulness by giving them all some sort of Ewar boost.
I can live with black ops being support if they can fill a support role, maybe an RR boost, or RR and Ewar. Just something more interesting than 600 Million isk battleship with as much HP as a T1 BC and about as much DPS that can jump and bridge a little bit.
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Mike C
MicroFunks Green Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.30 21:06:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Mike C on 30/07/2010 21:13:38 I currently own and operate both the Redeemer and Widow. The Redeemer is one hell of a ship to use for 0.0 jump bridge freighter ganking, and the jump-in-and-insta-perma-jam on the widow can be nice in lowsec. However, they (like all BOBS) were nerfed pre-release, and are excruciatingly underpowered, even compared to an EOS.
Sin needs to be a gun platform Drones are simply not a damage platform suitable for the black ops intended role. In fact, the Kronos is much better suited to a drone boat than the Sin, and vice versa. Now I don't fly the sin and I don't plan to (because I'm not rеtarded), but this is all common sense.
Black Ops need, at the very least, old mothership jump range (4.0ly base) There are some gate-to-gate jumps you can't make. Their entire purpose can be negated by such a ridiculous situation. However, BOBS were meant to have a very high barrier of entry, so having a Covert Cynosural Navigation skill (requiring BOBS 4 and JDC 5) extend BOBS range would also be sufficient. Not only all of what I mentioned about this, but I had JDC 5 before even injecting (or at that time no inject option so training for 2 seconds) any skill for jump-capable ships so I know what max range is like and how insufficient it is.
Massive bridge fuel reduction, now To bridge a BOBS can take 60x the fuel it would have taken to jump it. Do you know what one's fuel bay (at the time cargo bay) feels like after having to bridge all your fellow BOBS because only you have JDC5? Not only that, but the fuel use per LY is completely out of whack, being 27x the fuel used if a titan bridged the same ship the same distance.
Fuel bay inproportionate to fuel consumption Because of the bridging fuel use (see above), one may have to refuel two or three times just to bridge a bomber fleet through a single jump. However if bridge fuel use was lowered (set to 1/25 of current should suffice), this issue would no longer be problematic
Inadequate Cloak Yes yes we all know how cloaking is now, but this ship really needs the covert cloak. Unlike the stealth bomber which only helped (somewhat), the blackops actually NEEDS the covert cloak. It has little to no real combat capabilities comapared to any pvp ship in eve (and jump mechanics make them their only practical target save for unescorted haulers who have to be idiots to be doing that to begin with) and as such a covert cloak would be far from OP.
Ship Maintenance Bay I'm not asking for some huge bay, just enough to store two frigates or a single cruiser. In addition, the maintenance bay would behave like the rorqual's, in that the BOBS bay would only be able to store ships capable of using it's portal. Some may consider this OP, and I'll admit it may be a bit excessive in addition to the covert cloak, but this change (in addition to standard T2 bonuses) would give it a support role which would not necessitate the covert cloak, sort of like the 2008 mothership. Obviously I am not pushing for a corporate hangar, that would be overly excessive even in a wet dream.
TL;DR the black ops really needs Increased range, 4.0ly should suffice Bridge fuel coefficient changed to at least a humane level Fuel Bay proportional to bridge fuel use (Fuel Bay should hold enough isos to bridge BOBS and 25 Manticores 4.5ly @ Bridge 4 JFC 5) Very small JH2-only ship maintenance bay
My 2ó
EDIT: **** forgot to support lol
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1345049&page=1#15
Originally by: Chribba
Originally by: Mike C BUFF THE ****ING JUMP RANGE ALREADY.
THIS.
EDIT: As you can see Chribba has already spoken, SO ****ING MAKE IT SO ALREADY #1
↑↑ bar is just /quote ↑↑ [03:17:29] Trade Skills > Jesus believes in god [03:17:38] Mike C > believed* [03:17:48] Trade Skills > touche |
Gabriel Karade
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.07.31 00:32:00 -
[156]
If anything just tweak the build cost; they are much more palatable now that you can pick them up for under 400m - perhaps tweak it downwards further. The short range is an annoyance and could possibly be increased, but lots of the ideas here are barking.
As far as the Sin goes I quite like it as is (aligns and warps almost as fast as Vagabonds when used correctly) and is all round very versatile - it doesn't need changing into a carbon copy of the other Black Ops. But, if the damage were to be beefed up: change the 5% bonus to a 7.5% bonus instead of crazy ideas involving changing models and adding extra turrets (never going to happen).
--------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.08.20 23:26:00 -
[157]
Guess i need to keep bumping it untill it get fixed
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Rexy
DarkStar 1 Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.08.23 03:11:00 -
[158]
i like the small ship maintenance array idea
boost blops ------------------- <unusual big structure 4tw> |
Eve Orwell
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Posted - 2010.08.24 11:05:00 -
[159]
i agree, small ship maintainence bay would be awesome, and maybe give it (instead of a corp hangar) a bomb bay, to carry around bombs for the stealth bombers. Or not, if that sounds outrageous
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RRNL
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.09.03 10:56:00 -
[160]
bumping with a quote:
"Data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features..." -CCP
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ImmaSplodeYou
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Posted - 2010.09.03 14:43:00 -
[161]
Oh my god boost boost boost boost BOOST
AT LEAST let them have the Covops cloaking device, a larger Fuel bay and bigger jump range
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Absent Cloaker
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Posted - 2010.09.03 15:46:00 -
[162]
+1
but do to the lack of action from ccp I'll have to speculate that they might add another role of the BOps. It would be pretty epic if two BOps in the same fleet could open a wormhole between them for more conventional assaults. I promise that more ppl would fly them if that were the case |
ImmaSplodeYou
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Posted - 2010.09.04 18:01:00 -
[163]
Friendly bump - Support this
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Lev Aeris
b.b.k
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Posted - 2010.09.04 18:10:00 -
[164]
more range, larger fuel bays. Agreed that the gallente t2 BS are ass backwards...give the drones to the pve marauder and the guns to the black ops.
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ImmaSplodeYou
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Posted - 2010.09.04 19:38:00 -
[165]
Edited by: ImmaSplodeYou on 04/09/2010 19:40:12
Originally by: Lev Aeris more range, larger fuel bays. Agreed that the gallente t2 BS are ass backwards...give the drones to the pve marauder and the guns to the black ops.
Unfortunately that would make it ugly for CCP because Blackops = Tier 1 Tech 2 and Marauders = Tier 2 Tech 2, and Hulls of T2 ships share many attributes with their T1s. However your suggestion would be nice :(
Only thing I could think of is if they gave the Marauder a 100% drone damage role bonus and nerfed the turret highslots
Bump
Fix the ****ing blackops, this is now my crusade
JIHAAAAAD
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Javelin6
Dirt Nap Squad
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Posted - 2010.09.04 20:26:00 -
[166]
Here's my 2 ISK again.
- Change the cloaked velocity bonus to (or in addition to) a 20% per level reduction of scan resolution penalty of cloaking devices.
- Increase Jump and bridge range by 50% (should be enough to get some of those regional jumps that are just out of reach currently)
- Change the Sin's agility bonus to a 7.5% tracking bonus per level.
- Change the Panther's speed bonus to 10% falloff per level bonus.
IMO The other 2 ships should be fine with the top 2 bullets I made and the other aspects of the whole ship class is balanced in terms of tank/gank. ______________________________________________
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Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.04 22:45:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Rip Minner on 04/09/2010 22:47:44 Ya there pure crap for a tech 2 ship just becouse you can jump with alittle clocking abitly. wtf sorry ars of a BS if you ask me. Not so great of the fighting is there main problem.
O I can jump a little or alot and even if you inc jump range by 2000% there still crap in a fight.
A stealth bomber group is way more usefull/takes less time to train/and cost less.
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
ImmaSplodeYou
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Posted - 2010.09.06 19:57:00 -
[168]
B-bump
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2010.09.07 02:36:00 -
[169]
don't want to train for this type of ships anymore after reading what these ships are currently capable of :/
so i agree with the need for changes, at least jump range...
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AtheistOfFail
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Posted - 2010.09.07 06:47:00 -
[170]
Edited by: AtheistOfFail on 07/09/2010 06:47:46
Originally by: Raid'En Stuff.
Hate to say but i agree. Didn't get the thread at all until we had a bomber gang and had to take a covert ops hauler along. I kept wondering what it was for... until we ran out of fuel.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.09.14 15:21:00 -
[171]
Dear ccp,
I refuse to pay plex with rl isk untill its fixed. This is costing u allready 6 x 3 x 27= 487 euro's
/Hemmo
ps:
bump
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RuleoftheBone
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2010.09.15 09:23:00 -
[172]
Please address this particular issue.
Titans don't need to drag around a fleet of haulers to do what they do.
Why should Black Ops require this?
Supported.
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D Scan
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Posted - 2010.09.15 23:47:00 -
[173]
Agree.
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zcar300
|
Posted - 2010.09.18 01:07:00 -
[174]
I think we need to rethink what black ops is. I say remove these black ops ships and replace them with something battle cruiser size. Something that isn't offensive but can jump between systems without a cyno and can use covert ops cloak. Hell, just make it jump into the system at 12,000km from the gate or something. So it can jump in and spy on the enemy without them knowing. Which to me is the point of black ops.
I just think black ops should be the ultimate spy ship. Not this half cloaker half damage useless mutant. And not something one has to have two payed accounts just to use.
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ImmaSplodeYou
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Posted - 2010.09.19 00:10:00 -
[175]
Bump
Please solve this, if nothing else make the Sin have Dampener bonuses and panther web/TP bouses just for the hell of it
But mainly allow them to fit a covops cloak and all that good stuff
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cBOLTSON
Reaction Theory Talos Coalition
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Posted - 2010.09.19 13:11:00 -
[176]
Black Ops needs some serious love. Hell , theres more titans flying around than BO`s (probably).
The jump range is a start but i think a little more innovation is whats needed with them. CCP please do something about them, I dont know what you guys are playing at.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2010.09.22 16:16:00 -
[177]
Is it too much to ask for some feedback here?
Managing to fix rockets but ignore this?
Bit sad really. Anyone from CCP or CSM care to comment or has this "priority CSM issue" been swept aside in favor of capital PVE in the forthcoming update?
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Gimmy Rotten
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Posted - 2010.09.23 10:37:00 -
[178]
BO ships really need an overall boost !
- cloak warp - bonus/skill level - skins - fuel bay - jump range - integrated covert cyno AND jump portal
Just Make It Happen !
o7
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RRNL
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.09.24 16:14:00 -
[179]
back to first page
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Viribus
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.09.25 02:23:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Viribus on 25/09/2010 02:25:06 Personally, I think to be in line with other covert-style ships, Blops should get a bonus to their racial ewar instead of useless things like velocity and agility, along with other improvements (less mass, for one, reduced fuel use, longer range (supposed to go behind enemy lines, not two jumps away...), actual T2 resists, better fitting, etc.)
The Widow is fine, for bonuses at least, but it would make sense to give the Sin a point range bonus, the Panther a web range bonus, and the Redeemer a neut transfer bonus. This would be consistent with the other covert/recon ships for each race.
It's a bit silly to compare tanking and offensive ability to their T1 counterparts, since blops ships aren't meant to be effective in straight-up combat, but they need a serious boost to mobility, fitting, and bonuses.
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Jackie Myth
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Posted - 2010.09.27 03:46:00 -
[181]
Please no covops cloak - not on Battleship size. Blackops jump through covert cyno, why covop cloak? jumping through gates? stupid idea use scouts to scout systems not blackops lol
+Longer jump range +boost resistances +boost targeting range +more bonuses
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.09.27 13:52:00 -
[182]
what about changing the bs size to t3 size. Not cruiser not battlecuizer but something in between battlecruizer and combat recon size. Price tag must be the same and enough powergrid to actualy fit it properly.
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Haiden Po
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Posted - 2010.09.28 11:52:00 -
[183]
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Tinkerbele
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
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Posted - 2010.09.30 14:50:00 -
[184]
Ok, I've completely skilled for this ship now. You can go ahead and remove the nerfs CCP.
Thanks for waiting!!!!
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.10.01 22:40:00 -
[185]
The only way i can decent fit the sin is by using 2 ancillairy current router T2's.
Fix Black Ops:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.10.03 20:57:00 -
[186]
back to page 1 Fix Black Ops:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Reaver Glitterstim
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Posted - 2010.10.03 21:28:00 -
[187]
Seems to be the answer is obvious. Keep the Black Ops underpowered in all soloist fields (damage, tank, etc.), but make sure its other roles are good enough to make it shine in its field and for there to be a purpose for using it that is concurrent with its hefty skill and isk costs. Achieving that, it doesn't matter so much if not many players fly these ships. Maybe their uses are more specialized, and not so many find themselves in the position to be using it.
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Hyperdallas
Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.10.08 13:30:00 -
[188]
bump Yarr |
Rawbone
|
Posted - 2010.10.09 00:16:00 -
[189]
Supported. Make them worth the investment in time and isk.
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Chris Cochrane
Gallente modro R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.10.09 08:09:00 -
[190]
The only boost they really need is the ability to warp while cloaked; keep in mind they are paper thin, so they're not really overpowered.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.10.10 21:05:00 -
[191]
Changes needed: Sin: -Sin needs 2000 base power more, a lol 8800 (ccp did u forgot a 1 in front of the 8800? redeemer has 17000 base power) base power on a semi hybrid boat is fail -Remove all turret slots and replace 5 % hybrid damage bonus for a 25m3 drone bandwidth usage bonus per gallente bs level and increase max drone usage from 5 to 10 (max dps 950 with ogre's). -Change agility bonus to a 7,5% bonus in max velocity of drone flight time -Give sin the special bonus of scooping drones from 7,500 meters and deploying drones at 5,000 meter.
Redeemer: -Need a 30% boost in large pulse damage and a reduction from 125m3 drone to 25m3 drone bandwidth)
Widow: -Needs a 200 cpu boost -Needs 25% boost in torpedo dps -Needs a slight boost in cap recharge 10-20%
Panther: -Needs 1 extra mid slot -Needs a 40% boost in projectile dps and a reduction from 125m3 to 25m5 drone bandwidth -Velocity bonus need to be changed in a 10% fall off bonus per Black Op level
Changes in general: -Range increase from max 4,5ly to 6,5ly -Range formula should get an exception that the Black Op can always jump 1 system jump. Some systems with + 4,5ly (10ly-20ly, A to B with +4,5ly range need to be done manually in the current state) -Standard fuel bay increase from 1000m3 to 3000m3 -A bonus should be given to the fuel bay amount when a Black Op Jump Portal is fitted, it will add a additional X amount of m3 of fuel bay per black op level, example adds 3000m3 to fuel bay per Black Op level. -The Black Op Jump Portal should give a 10% reduction in fuel usage of that module per black op level. Currently a recon that bridges uses 1500-1600 fuel while only 6666 fits in the fuel bay
Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
gonesideways
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Posted - 2010.10.11 01:54:00 -
[192]
Still nothing on this eh.
My main was considering this path. Seeing the swift action by ccp higherups ill stick to a BS and continue to pull the trigger with the precision of an untrained monkey...
...but not caldari they suck ;) that is another discussion...
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.10.12 10:44:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 12/10/2010 10:54:32 Dear CCP i did the creative part of thinking what changes are best in post #191, now go implement them in incarna
U can mail me ingame if u want explainations based on the % changes Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2010.10.12 13:44:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen
Changes in general: -Range increase from max 4,5ly to 6,5ly -Range formula should get an exception that the Black Op can always jump 1 system jump. Some systems with + 4,5ly (10ly-20ly, A to B with +4,5ly range need to be done manually in the current state) -Standard fuel bay increase from 1000m3 to 3000m3 -A bonus should be given to the fuel bay amount when a Black Op Jump Portal is fitted, it will add a additional X amount of m3 of fuel bay per black op level, example adds 3000m3 to fuel bay per Black Op level. -The Black Op Jump Portal should give a 10% reduction in fuel usage of that module per black op level. Currently a recon that bridges uses 1500-1600 fuel while only 6666 fits in the fuel bay
While I think your individual changes to the ships are ludicrous (BOs have no fitting issues, but the Sin and Panther suffer from bad BO bonuses, granted), your general changes are far more interesting. BOs need more range, not much, but they still need it 5.5-6 LY should suffice. Personally I'd like to se the BO-skill affect jumprange, not just Jump Drive Calibration. BOs need better fuel economy, whether that should be adjusted with a larger fuel bay or not doesn't matter to med. A handful of bombers and a Recon or two usually means a one way ride unless you bring a Blockade Runner along. I don't mind bringing a Blockade Runner but today you cant sustain longer campaigns without several of them.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.10.12 14:56:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 12/10/2010 15:02:20
The Individual changes are based on fitting the black ops semi faction in such a way that their bonus gets applied right and doing around 1000-1100 DPS, sin gets 950 DPS. Redeemer & panther as DPS boats, redeemer DPS for heavy stuff, panther DPS for smaller stuff (Fall Off bonus & good tracking, look macharial). The widow for semi heavy DPS vs bigger stuff (battleships and stuff) and still has a little bit of buffer tank with 3 multi spec's. The sin is on this way an anti support boat with 10 drones with max skills & a good amount of high and mid slots for supporting its anti support role. Removing the heavy drones from the other black ops are my explanation to the increase % of damage output to the main weapon group. Try to fit a sin in its current state with Blasters or Railguns. U will see that it is impossible to even come close to match the other Black Op's survival ability (ehp, buffer tank) and DPS. The only way to get it all fit is by fitting 2 T2 Ancillary Current Routers & by that the other Black Op's get an advantage since they don't have to fit fitting riggs. Besides that it takes alot of time to apply the DPS to the target due slow ogre's or fail sentry drone optimal and fall off.
Typhoon base power grid: 12500 Phanter base power grid: 12750
Armaggedon base power grid: 16500 Redeemer base power grid: 17000
Dominix base power grid: 9900 Sin base power grid: 8800
Scorpion base power grid: 9000 Widow base power grid: 8800
Why got a semi hybrid boat 1100 power less than its T1 counterpart while the other Black Op got 250 -500 more while the Sin is an Armour & Hybrid boat that needs allot of power alone for Armour plates & Hybrid guns (shield boat's (Widow) doesnt need power as much as armout boat's). Fitting a Large Armour Repair System is not a option because it will take 2300 power (1/4th) to get a 350 DPS tank with resist's that are lower than a cruiser. The capacitor isn't exactly big ether.
So in short Sin needs some individual changes. The other individual changes are to balance races more and make Black Op's more popular. They are fun to fly and it is a waste to let such fun pas fellow EVE players :)
Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2010.10.13 10:42:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen
So in short Sin needs some individual changes. The other individual changes are to balance races more and make Black Op's more popular. They are fun to fly and it is a waste to let such fun pas fellow EVE players :)
We've had no issues in turning our BOs from Covert Taxis into dps-boats when needed. With the exception of the Sin. But that is not due to fitting constraints rather than game mechanics. It's very hard to apply drone dps before a target is evaporated. But we've found other uses for it. Our experience tells us that Grid and CPU is enough on all boats for us to do what we please with them, but that the specific BO skills are a bit out of order for Sin and Panther. That seems, however, like a far lower priority than being able to jump and portal some friends to the next door system and back again.
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RRNL
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.10.14 13:41:00 -
[197]
bump
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.10.16 12:28:00 -
[198]
still need fixing Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.10.18 12:34:00 -
[199]
I would love to see the sin getting 10 drones Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Xorv
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Posted - 2010.10.19 07:54:00 -
[200]
Supported.
In addition to tweaks to the individual BO ships, and significant jump range boost, I also think that this class of ship and every Cov-ops ship should be removed from Local Chat to make them genuinely stealthy
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.10.20 21:41:00 -
[201]
omg not page 2 again Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.10.22 11:30:00 -
[202]
how about making T2 covert battleships not apear in local as only ship ingame? Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Tarkelan
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Posted - 2010.10.23 18:31:00 -
[203]
Supported.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.10.26 09:49:00 -
[204]
still need fix Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.10.28 13:42:00 -
[205]
bump Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.10.29 15:58:00 -
[206]
need fixing Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.11.01 11:01:00 -
[207]
still broken Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2010.11.01 12:51:00 -
[208]
More bumping.
Though... Black Ops is fine as a weak deployment vehicle. Hell, if you made it both weaker in combat terms but made it a better deployment vehicle, it would be much more awesome:
Step 1: Remove all turret/bay hardpoints, so top slots can only equip probes/utility stuff Step 2: Remove drone bay
Step 3: Double the base jump range, maybe more. Cut fuel costs to 10% or so of current. Step 4: Add a bay to distribute bombs/ammo to other members of the fleet.
There, fixed. Black Ops is now the raft that carries in the special forces for covert missions, rather than an orange-painted raft with two machine guns buckled to the sides for no apparent reason. Doesn't need a covops cloak, really, bonus to velocity is fine, from what I've seen from the guy that runs ours. ---
If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
Defenseless Miner
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Posted - 2010.11.02 14:57:00 -
[209]
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Midori Tsu
Did I just do that
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Posted - 2010.11.02 15:05:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Lost Greybeard More bumping.
Though... Black Ops is fine as a weak deployment vehicle. Hell, if you made it both weaker in combat terms but made it a better deployment vehicle, it would be much more awesome:
Step 1: Remove all turret/bay hardpoints, so top slots can only equip probes/utility stuff Step 2: Remove drone bay
Step 3: Double the base jump range, maybe more. Cut fuel costs to 10% or so of current. Step 4: Add a bay to distribute bombs/ammo to other members of the fleet.
There, fixed. Black Ops is now the raft that carries in the special forces for covert missions, rather than an orange-painted raft with two machine guns buckled to the sides for no apparent reason. Doesn't need a covops cloak, really, bonus to velocity is fine, from what I've seen from the guy that runs ours.
ludicris changes. i tihnk even less people would fly black ops ships if this changes were made.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.11.03 09:33:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Midori Tsu
Originally by: Lost Greybeard More bumping.
Though... Black Ops is fine as a weak deployment vehicle. Hell, if you made it both weaker in combat terms but made it a better deployment vehicle, it would be much more awesome:
Step 1: Remove all turret/bay hardpoints, so top slots can only equip probes/utility stuff Step 2: Remove drone bay
Step 3: Double the base jump range, maybe more. Cut fuel costs to 10% or so of current. Step 4: Add a bay to distribute bombs/ammo to other members of the fleet.
There, fixed. Black Ops is now the raft that carries in the special forces for covert missions, rather than an orange-painted raft with two machine guns buckled to the sides for no apparent reason. Doesn't need a covops cloak, really, bonus to velocity is fine, from what I've seen from the guy that runs ours.
ludicris changes. i tihnk even less people would fly black ops ships if this changes were made.
instead of giving a opinion of how it not should go figur a opinion how it does should chnage Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Datari Langour
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Posted - 2010.11.05 14:32:00 -
[212]
I hope ccp will ever fix blackops, its been a great idea, they introduced it, and then they don't look at the problems blackops ships have.
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Sepheir Sepheron
Legion..
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Posted - 2010.11.05 19:50:00 -
[213]
Zib zob zoobity bop fix the **** out of them.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.11.07 10:32:00 -
[214]
still not fixed Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
LordElfa
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Posted - 2010.11.07 17:26:00 -
[215]
I like the idea of removing the Sin's turrets, but rather than just add one drone controlled per level, give a 99% reduction in CPU and Power for Drone Control Units. Make them eat up 5 of those 7 high slots if they want to operate 10 drones.
Add to that a 20% bonus to drone damage and an additional 200 power cap and its a winner.
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aratillion
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.08 15:34:00 -
[216]
Edited by: aratillion on 08/11/2010 15:34:18 I believe that the black ops should be able to bridge all t2 crusier sized ships.recon or not,alsoi believe that all the bo should get a standard bounes to bridging -10% fuel need per skill black op lvl instead of the jump portal skill.i also think the jump range should be a bit longer and covert cynos should be able to be lit anywhere in empire aswell.but i think there should be a covert cyno jammer as well for system that have sov lv 5 for more than 5 months.but thats my idea for the black op.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.11.09 15:06:00 -
[217]
still no fix so im going to start bumping daily Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Slade Hoo
Retired Gunslingers
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Posted - 2010.11.10 00:07:00 -
[218]
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Mocam
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Posted - 2010.11.10 00:48:00 -
[219]
IMO -- big change to help them out: Allow black ops use in highsec. All the ship types can go there and covert cyno's bypass blocks so...
That'd make a very interesting change to some highsec war situations.
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Darirol
FEROX AQUILA Cold Steel Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.10 01:31:00 -
[220]
Edited by: Darirol on 10/11/2010 01:32:35 my sin is used as logistic ship - if it is used at all. shield tank, cargo rigs, cargo expander in low slots and i have enough fuel to bridge small covert op gangs around. but the bridge range is much to low for this kind of black op action. you can not have more then 2 or 3 target systems in range and even with so many cargo mods fitted you have not enough fuel to move your fleet around. cloaky t2 hauler dont have much more cargo space.
more bridge range or _much_! larger fuel bay would help for this kind of black op use.
i never used my black op in combat, because a 40 mio isk dominix > Sin even if the sin would cost only 100 mio isk i would still prefer a dominix for combat. if you want black ops in combat you should give them a much better tank.
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Baneken
School of the Unseen
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Posted - 2010.11.11 11:59:00 -
[221]
Edited by: Baneken on 11/11/2010 12:04:31 I second this proposal.
edit: One thing what about ability to use normal jump portal generators instead of just covert ops, give them 99% reduction for fitting and we would have a mini titan for a 10th of a price and smaller jump range that comes with it. This would also justify the small fuel bay and other drawbacks that BO's have, although sin and panther would still have useless bonuses that need to be tweaked.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Grimpak
The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.11 12:27:00 -
[222]
Edited by: Grimpak on 11/11/2010 12:27:41 general fix for them BO's:
- increase fuel bay and/or decrease fuel consumption of portal - increase base jump range, or give a bonus for jump range, or both. - remove penalties for using cloak (but not the ability of using cov ops cloak), cloak velocity bonus should be replaced by said above jump range bonus.
specific fixes:
- Sin's agility bonus is lol, sin's mass is lol, sin's agility is lol, sin's grid is, yet again, lol. change those for something more usefull like a drone bonus or a hull repairing bonus, since that's more useful than current bonus.
- panther's speed bonus back in the nano age was good. With the nano nerf, not any longer. change it for a tracking bonus or a falloff bonus or whatever. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Bubbled
|
Posted - 2010.11.11 13:44:00 -
[223]
Edited by: Bubbled on 11/11/2010 13:44:44 +1 for unnerf the BO
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
|
Posted - 2010.11.11 17:47:00 -
[224]
Reposted from S&M:
15% Reduction in Fuel need for Jump Drive Activation per level of BO 10% Reduction in Fuel need for Covert Jump Portal Activation per level of BO 20% Increase to Scan Resolution per level of BO . 20% Reduction to Cloaking Device Velocity penalty per level of BO . 10% Increase to Jump Drive and Covert Jump Portal range per level of BO . Role Bonus : No targeting delay after uncloaking and 25% velocity bonus while cloaking device is equipped ( passive bonus ). Special Bonus : Black Ops Insertion - Black Ops ships with an equipped Covert Cyno Generator can lock onto a system star rather than on to a Cyno field . Covert Jump Portal Generator cannot be equipped for this ability to be active . This is a passive ability enabled by the equipping of a Covert Cyno , but in turn disabled by the equipping of a Covert Portal Generator.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.11.14 22:47:00 -
[225]
bump Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Koronos
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.11.17 02:05:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Grimpak
general fix for them BO's:
- increase fuel bay and/or decrease fuel consumption of portal - increase base jump range, or give a bonus for jump range, or both. - remove penalties for using cloak (but not the ability of using cov ops cloak), cloak velocity bonus should be replaced by said above jump range bonus.
specific fixes:
- Sin's agility bonus is lol, sin's mass is lol, sin's agility is lol, sin's grid is, yet again, lol. change those for something more usefull like a drone bonus or a hull repairing bonus, since that's more useful than current bonus.
- panther's speed bonus back in the nano age was good. With the nano nerf, not any longer. change it for a tracking bonus or a falloff bonus or whatever.
This +11. Well, maybe not so much the hull repping bonus, but point well made.
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Defenseless Miner
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Posted - 2010.11.19 23:11:00 -
[227]
i support
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Soldarius
Caldari Independent Coalition DEM0N HUNTERS
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Posted - 2010.11.20 13:17:00 -
[228]
Almost a year ago I posted here voicing my support for the idea of buffing Black Ops. One or two suggestions have been adopted since then. That is appeciated. However, the options selected were of the most modest variety and for the most part, fairly ineffective at boosting the desirability of flying BlOps BS. Since I have now less than a week before completing all required training to fly a Widow, I am posting again to reinforce my continued support for this class of ship.
In general, all BlOps BS suffer from crappy tank when compared against their T1 variants. Either give them T2 resists, increased agility, decreased mass, or decrease signature radius. I think the reduced SigRad is a fine idea firmly in line with the concepts and traditions of Covert/Black Ops. These guys should be hard to catch, but not necessarily hard to kill.
First, everyone please recognize that there are 2 BS bonus slots, 2 BO bonus slots, and 2 role bonus slots. Let us start with the role bonus slots.
The ability to equip a covert cloak would place the vessel more properly into the BO role alongside its counterparts, the force recons, CovOps frigates, and SB. It would be no more "OP" than any other cov ops ship. And honestly, I don't see anyone popping a cov cyno with a BO. They cost far too much and are far too valuable as portal generators to perform a task that any other CovOps can do just as well, without having to sit immobile for 60 seconds in a barn-sized target with crappy EHP.
To balance the addition of covert cloak and not make BO into a do-it-all covert vessel remove the ability to light covert cynos.
The second role bonus is fitting a Covert Portal Generator. Needless to say, that should stay in place.
As far as the BS and BO per level bonuses, I feel that they are not in line with the intended role of BlOps, and need to be completely redone.
Since I suggested above that we should allow for covert cloaking devices, there is no reason to have a cloaked velocity modifier. Let us replace that with the oft and appropriately suggested jump drive range bonus. With a base range of 2ly and the JDC skill multiplier of 25% per level, we have a maximum range of a measly 4.5ly. Lets give the BlOps another 25% per Black Ops level. Currently, there is little incentive (other than the Widow's ECM bonus) to continue training BlOps skill. This would make it more desirable to continue training the skill, as well as be balanced. You want more range? Work for it.
Now we can address the second BlOps skill bonus. On all ships, this seems to be a utility bonus slot. Drop all the current bonuses and replace them with the standard Covert Ops CPU reduction of 96-100% per level.
Now, as for the battleship skill bonuses, nobody complains about having extra dps. However, they simply don't fit the role and could be better used in an EWAR capacity. Let's build on that theme. All bonuses are percent per level of BS skill.
Widow, +30% ECM strength and +5% RoF of launchers. Redeemer, +5% laser RoF and +20% Neut/Nos energy transfer amount. Sin, +5% large hybrid damage and +20% to Remote Sensor Dampening effectiveness. Screw the drones. Panther, +5% large projectile damage and +25% target painter effectiveness.
If you want logistics capability carry remote rep bots. Even the Widow can carry 1 set each of 5 medium rep bots 5 small ECM or combat drones. That's a great use for a BO drone bay imo.
One other thing I would do is to change the Jump Portal Generation skill to allow for it to reduce the amount of isotopes used by Covert Jump Portals. Currently it only reduces stront usage for Titan bridges. That would give folks the fuel reduction they want, again balanced by skill train time. (ref.)
I hope this post stimulates some positive conversation. I can envision some interesting new fits. "When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." |
Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy Spreadsheets Online
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Posted - 2010.11.20 16:14:00 -
[229]
Quote: approved by CSM x2, after 13 months no fix
That's because csm has no power and doesnt do anything. CCP fixes stuff at a rate. CSM just shotguns and talks about every issue and when ccp tells us what they are fixing. CSM claims success. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe.
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Stig Sterling
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Posted - 2010.11.21 18:17:00 -
[230]
As soon as I found out about the Black Ops ships, I wanted to fly one. I have put the bulk of my skills into flying a Sin. Once I wasnt so green anymore, I realized that they needed a little work.
Please fix this so my skill training doesnt go to waste! I have traveled to many worlds, and seen many wonderful things, but now, I take to the stars to claim my place among the gods. |
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Defenseless Miner
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Posted - 2010.11.22 23:08:00 -
[231]
i support
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.11.23 05:26:00 -
[232]
What about addressing the portal range issue by providing a t2 and named variants of the portal generator?
As a fan of the Dominix, I would like to be able to transfer my drone skills to the Sin, and would happily give up the hybrids bonus and all the turret hard points for some more drone DPS/repping.
Slightly larger fuel bays, combined with slightly better bridging fuel efficiency and range due to named/T2 bridge generators, will address most of the issues people have with black ops. I would not want to see them buffed to the point of being capable frontline combatants, so if they become powerful enough to replace T1 ships when running missions you know something is wrong.
There should be some sacrifice for the ability to bridge in a sub-cap hull. In return the bridge should have utility that can be expanded with some expense.
Buff range by 5% to 50% based on some modules, reduce fuel consumption by a similar amount on others, have the pilot choose between higher range or better efficiency. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.11.23 16:28:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Mara Rinn What about addressing the portal range issue by providing a t2 and named variants of the portal generator?
As a fan of the Dominix, I would like to be able to transfer my drone skills to the Sin, and would happily give up the hybrids bonus and all the turret hard points for some more drone DPS/repping.
Slightly larger fuel bays, combined with slightly better bridging fuel efficiency and range due to named/T2 bridge generators, will address most of the issues people have with black ops. I would not want to see them buffed to the point of being capable frontline combatants, so if they become powerful enough to replace T1 ships when running missions you know something is wrong.
There should be some sacrifice for the ability to bridge in a sub-cap hull. In return the bridge should have utility that can be expanded with some expense.
Buff range by 5% to 50% based on some modules, reduce fuel consumption by a similar amount on others, have the pilot choose between higher range or better efficiency.
The problem with drones is that they dont apply damage on the target immedelately, so this should be fixed aswell, ether buff drone damage or drone vellocity bonus Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Javelin6
Dirt Nap Squad
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Posted - 2010.11.23 20:21:00 -
[234]
Keeping hope alive.
- Change the cloaked velocity bonus to a 20% per level reduction of scan resolution and speed penalty of fitting cloaking devices.
- Increase Jump and bridge range by 50% (should be enough to get some of those regional jumps that are just out of reach currently)
- Change the Sin's agility bonus to a 7.5% tracking bonus per level.
- Change the Panther's speed bonus to 10% falloff per level bonus.
- Add T2 resists.
______________________________________________
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TopShatta
Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.11.24 14:20:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Javelin6 Keeping hope alive.
- Change the cloaked velocity bonus to a 20% per level reduction of scan resolution and speed penalty of fitting cloaking devices.
- Increase Jump and bridge range by 50% (should be enough to get some of those regional jumps that are just out of reach currently)
- Change the Sin's agility bonus to a 7.5% tracking bonus per level.
- Change the Panther's speed bonus to 10% falloff per level bonus.
- Add T2 resists.
Jumprage should get a buff + an exeption to the rule that u can alwasy make 1 system jump even if the distance is bigger than the max jump range. The 7,5% tracking buff is useless without extra power grid to be able to fit them in the first place
. |
Javelin6
Dirt Nap Squad
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Posted - 2010.11.24 19:03:00 -
[236]
Originally by: TopShatta
Originally by: Javelin6 Stuff I said.
The 7,5% tracking buff is useless without extra power grid to be able to fit them in the first place
Point taken.
______________________________________________
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Koen L
Galactic Defence Consortium Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.11.25 04:17:00 -
[237]
Edited by: Koen L on 25/11/2010 04:17:21 Got the ship and skills now (widow). Its expensive and useless. I regret investing into this. I gonna reprocess it if it wont get unnerfed. At least the jump range needs a buff.
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Soldarius
Caldari Independent Coalition DEM0N HUNTERS
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Posted - 2010.12.01 05:19:00 -
[238]
lol @ reprocess. Better check the value of the reprocess results first. cba to do it myself. Bet the ship is worth more. Just sell it if you want to get rid of it. Someone will buy it.
...eventually. "When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." |
Ogogov
Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.12.01 18:51:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Soldarius Sin, +5% large hybrid damage and +20% to Remote Sensor Dampening effectiveness. Screw the drones.
Great, another worthless Gallente T2 ship nobody will want to fly. You are aware that Sensor damps and hybrids are absolutely terrible, right?
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.12.01 22:06:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Ogogov
Great, another worthless Gallente T2 ship nobody will want to fly. You are aware that Sensor damps and hybrids are absolutely terrible, right?
no they dont know. i doubt most ccp members even pvp. the other day i saw a topic about what activities devs are doin in eve. mostly were pvefng and fw. so my guess is that only a very small % dev/ccp employm actualy flies gallente ships.
anyway, i will see what incursion brings. if after patch 3.0 still no announcement is made or any change is visable im closing & changing all my posts from this topic in "srry my logs show nothing" as it is a waste of time and pixels past 14 months. its a shame that a good assemblyhall issue gets waved away. **trend continues, who cares about pvp anyway amirite?** Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
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mack trucker
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.12.02 03:58:00 -
[241]
when is ccp going to apply the boost to the black ops? i mean like the the 4ly base instead of the 2 ly base, and what not?
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.12.08 10:56:00 -
[242]
bump Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
So Cash
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Posted - 2010.12.08 13:08:00 -
[243]
One does not simply jump drive into mordor.
Why not... because you haven't got the range.
Black ops need a boost and CCP just ain't listening. Perhaps with more micro transactions on the verge Black Ops might not only be useless they might have a stupid skin painted on them too
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Draco Llasa
Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.09 05:21:00 -
[244]
Edited by: Draco Llasa on 09/12/2010 05:21:50 i too support the Black Ops boost.. range, t2 resists (should def be more HP than t1 hull), and useful bonuses.
I think its time already, lets get on with it
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Mielono
SWARTA
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Posted - 2010.12.09 09:09:00 -
[245]
I have dreams of the games I could play with the Widow, but at the moment it seems next to useless. I think about finding a lone pirate or miners sitting out in space, as I sit silently in a belt just waiting. Getting close while it moves around talking to its friends or firing at a few rocks, coming quickly out of cloak locking it down with a warp scramble and taking it apart with my missles while it screams for its friends. Picking over its corpse and drifting off back into cloak before its backup can arive.
At the moment this seems hard if not impossible to do.
Originally by: Culmen
A cat is like that carebear who sticks around only while there's food, and at best kills a few rats.A dog F*cking enforces NBSI, and deep down is slightly disappointed you aren't tak |
Alias 6322A
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Posted - 2010.12.10 04:28:00 -
[246]
I've never flown a BO but based on the descriptions this is what I figured: They are meant to be Hit & Run ships alongside the other covert ops ships. Effectively BO's are your portal generators and, with Stealth Bombers, your heavy hitters. Given the poor jump range its hard to get much done with these ships. They're not POS bashers but they ought to be excellent for pouncing on small gangs of miners, missioners, pirates...anything!
I've also always wondered why they don't use cov-ops cloak? Wouldn't this render the velocity boosts worthless (which means they could be switched to something not worthless)?
I think the idea behind the ships are great but they need some love if nobody flies them...I'd train for one but who the hell would want me to tag along in a BO when I have other, more useful ships?
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Geanos
Phoenix Tribe
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Posted - 2010.12.10 08:59:00 -
[247]
You cold split the BO ships in 2 classes, just like the command ships if it's so hard to balance them CCP. Have one weak class handle the covert bridging (the BO's we have right now) and the other be centered on small gang ganking (no bridging, but bigger jump range, better stats). You could also use the tier 3 hulls for the gank BO's to have a little bit of variation.
PS: we know how good the artists and programmers are at CCP, but you guys suck at gameplay design and balance. Don't be cheap CCP, hire a permanent balance team.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.12.12 10:35:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Geanos You cold split the BO ships in 2 classes, just like the command ships if it's so hard to balance them CCP. Have one weak class handle the covert bridging (the BO's we have right now) and the other be centered on small gang ganking (no bridging, but bigger jump range, better stats). You could also use the tier 3 hulls for the gank BO's to have a little bit of variation.
PS: we know how good the artists and programmers are at CCP, but you guys suck at gameplay design and balance. Don't be cheap CCP, hire a permanent balance team.
That is a exellent idea, 1 class with hugh fuelbay and bridge range/fule bonus and 1 for pwnage Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.12.13 12:37:00 -
[249]
Comming close to the 14th month of this topic.
I would like to remember ccp that i will be crying like a ***** with my alts all over the forums about csm if there is no real planning announced about the black op issue when incarna #3 is hit tranquility Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Professor Screweyes
I.M.M Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.12.13 16:08:00 -
[250]
Fix Black Ops. It's otherwise an overpriced and thin skinned primary.
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wolftin21
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.16 00:34:00 -
[251]
CCP has voted to 2x the jump base and/or reduce the fuel usage for the black ops however,when they are going to add the passed votes I do not know.I do know/think is that they will also allowed covert cyno to be lit in empire.now if CCP does follow through this will bring back the black op to its know glory and pvp will be at a new era.now if they would just allow the black ops to use a covert cloak,that will also give the black ops something worth buying but that's me.So CCP GET TO WORK AND MAKE THE BLACK OPS WORTH WILD CHOP CHOP.
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wolftin21
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.16 05:18:00 -
[252]
replying to that i support my post
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.12.16 11:08:00 -
[253]
Originally by: wolftin21 replying to that i support my post
Edit your post, tab on the box just above your character selection box.
This gives a yes vote (a hand with thums up) to your post and that get all summed up on start page. However i think i bumped this soo many times that it doesnt make any differance in outcome anymore Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Discodermolide
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Posted - 2010.12.16 12:53:00 -
[254]
FIX black ops now ccp
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Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.16 15:09:00 -
[255]
Not supported not need other hotdrop ship for blob.
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Jaari Val'Dara
Atomic Zeppelins BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.12.17 10:54:00 -
[256]
Black ops need longer jump range and less fuel usage NOW :)
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Tiger Prince
Democracy of Klingon Brothers R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.12.17 11:58:00 -
[257]
I would be fine with the following changes:
1.) The ability to use a covert ops cloak.
2.) Remove the velocity bonus and add in it's place 50% jump and portal range per BO level.
3.) Reduce the fuel needed for the covert jump portal.
Black Ops are the only ship that can use a covert ops cyno and not use a covert ops cloak.
The jump range bonus tied in with the BO skill would make it at max skills able to keep up with a dread/SC fleet. Keep the 2 light year range base, but with this proposed change it would increase to min skills being able to jump 6 ly and max skills jumping 11.25 ly thus keeping up with a dread/SC fleet.
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Meridian Siri
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Posted - 2010.12.18 21:18:00 -
[258]
Would devote some time to training this ship if it weren't for the short jump range and HUGE fuel use. Also would love to seen cov-ops cyno work in empire; might shake up some empire wars. More love for Black Ops
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Hun Jakuza
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.12.18 22:32:00 -
[259]
Not supported
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.12.23 22:57:00 -
[260]
I think all Black Ops should use the same fuel aswell, not different types for each race Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
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Blastfizzle
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.12.24 13:22:00 -
[261]
I don't see a reason why not to do so, therefore I support. _______________________________________ I believe I can be considered one of the MOST EPIC people of ALL TIMES! |
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
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Posted - 2010.12.24 16:44:00 -
[262]
I agree, having BOps ships not fit CovOps cloaks unlike all the other ships of its breed is simply silly. The jumprange/fuel efficiency buffs don't sound like a bad idea either.
As for covert cynos, covops T3s not being able to light them is mere silliness (I'm guessing its an artifact of the way the covert cyno is set up as opposed to the covert ops cloak), as they can do everything else a covops ship can. As other posters indicated, all the BRs except the Prowler would need an extra high slot (the Prowler would get an extra low in this case, to keep things from becoming rather strange) if they were given the ability to light covert cynos.
As for being able to light covert cynos in hisec: I'm not sure. This change would have to be discussed separate from any BOps buffs.
Other buffs to BOps ships (gank/tank/ewar) probably should be discussed separately as well.
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Dunkler Imperator
N.F.H.P. Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.12.29 04:23:00 -
[263]
Just got the Reedeemer was Very supervised With my inability to even jump past consolation's gates. For the ships price I expected much more So far it's just a shiny thing With no real use. It Will die real fast and burn a whole in my wallet. I don't see every using it in combat other than jumping a fleet a single jump...
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zus
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Posted - 2010.12.29 04:56:00 -
[264]
I don't see a reason why not to do so
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leich
bish bash bosh
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Posted - 2010.12.30 11:47:00 -
[265]
Edited by: leich on 30/12/2010 11:48:29 The Best idea ive heard in here is use what they are and thats fleet logistics.
Give them Bonuses to Gang links and ability to fit more than one would be great.
If they then introduced a Covert BC capable of using the bridge it would make sence.
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Shadow Sleuth
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.30 13:57:00 -
[266]
They really should use cov ops cloak.
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Arskaff
Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.12.30 14:01:00 -
[267]
Please fix Black Ops.
Must: Improve jump range Should: Revamp fuel consumption Can: Allow every ship with Jump Harmonics 2 to use the Covert Ops Cloaking Device. (specifically, the Black Ops) Can: Allow every ship with Jump Harmonics 2 to use the Covert Cynosural Field Generator (implies: adding another high slot for all Blockade Runners)
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Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
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Posted - 2010.12.30 19:12:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Arskaff Please fix Black Ops.
Must: Improve jump range Should: Revamp fuel consumption Can: Allow every ship with Jump Harmonics 2 to use the Covert Ops Cloaking Device. (specifically, the Black Ops) Can: Allow every ship with Jump Harmonics 2 to use the Covert Cynosural Field Generator (implies: adding another high slot for all Blockade Runners)
Except the Prowler, which already has 2 highs, but would probably appreciate an extra low slot for GTFO/cargo tradeoffness.
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Arskaff
Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.12.31 01:52:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Originally by: Arskaff Please fix Black Ops.
Must: Improve jump range Should: Revamp fuel consumption Can: Allow every ship with Jump Harmonics 2 to use the Covert Ops Cloaking Device. (specifically, the Black Ops) Can: Allow every ship with Jump Harmonics 2 to use the Covert Cynosural Field Generator (implies: adding another high slot for all Blockade Runners)
Except the Prowler, which already has 2 highs, but would probably appreciate an extra low slot for GTFO/cargo tradeoffness.
I'm not sure a Prowler with three high slots is such a bad idea Adding a low slot to the Prowler would change a different balance (within Blockade Runners - the ability to carry more than 10,000 m^3).
I any case, that is really minor compared with improving jump distance (or squashing the universe ) |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.12.31 15:40:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen
Originally by: Ogogov
Great, another worthless Gallente T2 ship nobody will want to fly. You are aware that Sensor damps and hybrids are absolutely terrible, right?
no they dont know. i doubt most ccp members even pvp. the other day i saw a topic about what activities devs are doin in eve. mostly were pvefng and fw. so my guess is that only a very small % dev/ccp employm actualy flies gallente ships.
anyway, i will see what incursion brings. if after patch 3.0 still no announcement is made or any change is visable im closing & changing all my posts from this topic in "srry my logs show nothing" as it is a waste of time and pixels past 14 months. its a shame that a good assemblyhall issue gets waved away. **trend continues, who cares about pvp anyway amirite?**
bumping myselve with a quote Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
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Xixa Nova
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Posted - 2010.12.31 18:29:00 -
[271]
Bump this up indeed!
I like the cloaked velocity actually, and they don't really need a covert cloak IMO, but...
They could use a jump/bridge range increase (just a small one) They desperately NEED more EHP/resists. Equal to T1+5% (shield/armor/hull) HP and standard T2 resists would be good. More Power/CPU - equal to their T1 version + 5-10% or so, to bring it in line with other T2 ships. Extra turret/missile hardpoints for Panther 12.5 or 15% drone damage per level (instead of 10%) for Sin.
As is, these ships are paper-thin and can't output any respectable DPS. They cost 800 million ISK, have high skill requirements to fly, and are completely suck. I want to love them so bad - I love stealthy ships. Making these ships into the natural progression from Cov Ops --> Recon --> Black Ops would be nice. As is, they are in a class by themselves and aren't very useful.
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MissBehaving
Caldari The Resident Haunting C0NVICTED
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Posted - 2011.01.06 18:45:00 -
[272]
+1 to this fix this **** already. D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. |
Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Certified Household Sweeping Consulting
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Posted - 2011.01.08 13:53:00 -
[273]
Guys in big alliances just want cheap jump bridge machine. But then they already have titans and they complain blackops are useless.
Change blackops into small gang vessels with decent fitting for damage and tank with sensible sensor strenght so someone would actually use these ships more often. I personally think blackops were balanced to be used by people who have no actual need for them at first place.
Plzx. :/
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MissBehaving
Caldari The Resident Haunting C0NVICTED
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Posted - 2011.01.09 05:19:00 -
[274]
BUMP fix it.. D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. |
Illyria1
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Posted - 2011.01.09 06:05:00 -
[275]
Supported. I would at least love extra jump range. I mean seriously. Bigger fuel bay would be good for 2nd.
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RagingRifter
Minmatar The Dark Space Initiative
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Posted - 2011.01.09 07:18:00 -
[276]
- does not warp cloaked like ever other ship that goes through a covert ops portal - not enough jump range - not a big enough fuel bay as to not require an alt with a cover hauler
i think any of one of these things "mainly jump range" would make this ship a bit more popular
CCP FIX YO ****
-Rage
PEACE THROUGH POWER
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2011.01.09 13:23:00 -
[277]
mabe ccp should give then most bonuses discribed in this topic and change their size to T2 battlecruisers. Desighn new T2 battleships (or T3) Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Zia Aiz
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Posted - 2011.01.10 15:42:00 -
[278]
Increased jump range & fuel bay size, why yes that does sound more tempting.
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rofflesausage
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Posted - 2011.01.10 16:10:00 -
[279]
-Players do not appear in local when in this ship
I can but dream....
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OC 2av2
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Posted - 2011.01.10 19:27:00 -
[280]
Ooops! I did post this in a wrong place before. I had intention to post here, but not into EVE General Discussion. That is why I am repeating it here:
Sorry, I didn't read all tread (too long), but I think Black Ops need fixing without doubts!
According this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_ops
"A black operation or black op is a covert operation typically involving activities that are highly clandestine and, often, outside of standard military protocol or even against the law. A key factor in making an operation "black" is that it is carried out with great secrecy; in many cases no official records of the operation are kept."
Obliviously Black Ops are using stealth-sneaking tactics and by all this Black Ops should have -99% CPU bonus for Covert Ops Cloaking Device II!!!
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Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.10 19:57:00 -
[281]
1) Extend the max rage of the jump portal. (if nothing else the ship can be used as a Transport ship best friend)
2) allow Covert cynos in high sec. (this will allow high sec war dec's the opportunity to set up Recon ambushes in high sec)
Those two things should give the black ops ship a good role within eve; Both in industry and combat.
Make it happen CCP!
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Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
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Posted - 2011.01.10 19:57:00 -
[282]
Originally by: OC 2av2
Obliviously Black Ops are using stealth-sneaking tactics and by all this Black Ops should have -99% CPU bonus for Covert Ops Cloaking Device II!!!
Pro-tip : you're a lot sneakier out of system that cloaked in it. I can't remind a single instance of me warping to a target anyway, always jumped to one.
As a Blackops pilot I don't think there is much wrong with them except perhaps the Sin. Sure I would be glad if they were buffed (more fittings, more slots) but the Covert Ops cloak would be of no use on mine.
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2011.01.10 20:58:00 -
[283]
I would love the Cov Ops Cloak to be given to the BOps, Is it needed? not really.
A bigger fuel bay, better fuel consumption and longer jump range is what they need, and out of all of those I would settle for the longer jump range.
As far as more damage / tank, that is really not the role of a BOps, If your standing toe to toe slugging it out with other battleships...
something went wrong
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2011.01.10 21:46:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Caius Sivaris As it is Black Ops can already bring 1000 unscoutable DPS, adding hardpoints and fittings would render them really OP.
Only the redeemer has 850 dps and 1000 with drones all l5 (decent 80k efh buffer tank, phanter got 900 damage fitted, widow with torps (<30 km) 600, sin 450 drone + 200 rails or 350 neut blaster (no tank at all). I agree with u that some ships are fine damage ( i know redeemer is decent) and slot layout but dont talk like every bo is the same because im gallente and i feel offended if u claim the sin has a good slot layout and a 1000 dps
Originally by: Caius Sivaris
I'd really love your definition of respectable dps...
It surely isnt the drones for the sin, takes too much time to apply damage and sentries are fail due range issues compined with sentry optimal and fall off
I would like to add a new fix to them, if u jump to cyno u get -70% cap bonus, thats a pain
Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
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Posted - 2011.01.10 21:56:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen
Originally by: Caius Sivaris As it is Black Ops can already bring 1000 unscoutable DPS, adding hardpoints and fittings would render them really OP.
Only the redeemer has 850 dps and 1000 with drones all l5 (decent 80k efh buffer tank, phanter got 900 damage fitted, widow with torps (<30 km) 600, sin 450 drone + 200 rails or 350 neut blaster (no tank at all).
Fail fits I guess. My Panther is 1021 dps before overloading for All level V (RF gyros) and 1073 for my actual skills and implants... And it bring an heavy neut too...
Bigger fuel bay and range while nice would only make eve smaller and the hotdrops gankiers... Not sure we want that...
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2011.01.10 21:56:00 -
[286]
Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen
Originally by: Caius Sivaris As it is Black Ops can already bring 1000 unscoutable DPS, adding hardpoints and fittings would render them really OP.
Only the redeemer has 850 dps and 1000 with drones all l5 (decent 80k efh buffer tank, phanter got 900 damage fitted, widow with torps (<30 km) 600, sin 450 drone + 200 rails or 350 neut blaster (no tank at all). I agree with u that some ships are fine damage ( i know redeemer is decent) and slot layout but dont talk like every bo is the same because im gallente and i feel offended if u claim the sin has a good slot layout and a 1000 dps
Originally by: Caius Sivaris
I'd really love your definition of respectable dps...
It surely isnt the drones for the sin, takes too much time to apply damage and sentries are fail due range issues compined with sentry optimal and fall off
I would like to add a new fix to them, if u jump to cyno u get -70% cap bonus, thats a pain
The Damage a BOps can do on its own is nothing compared to the damage it can bridge on top of you.
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Wollari
Phoenix Industries Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.10 22:39:00 -
[287]
Love 4 BlackOps please
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Alara Talorra
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Posted - 2011.01.11 00:05:00 -
[288]
As others have said, an increase in jump/portal range and reduction in fuel consumption would be great.
I'll throw in with the T2 resists, comparable to other T2 ships, and stats equal to or greater than their standard BS equivalents. Having the jump drive and portal ability doesn't justify a weaker ship - we pay and train to have that capability.
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Okie Wren
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Posted - 2011.01.11 01:07:00 -
[289]
Flog!
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Uzrial
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Posted - 2011.01.11 03:46:00 -
[290]
Aside from them needed a bit of a buff towards range and fuel. I think the major reason why you dont see them used so much is because they require a tremendous amount of planning and out of game skill. So many things need to go right and people need to really have their **** together to use them well. Its much easier to throw a gang together and roam your way to a target than it is to meticulously plan out logistics. That being said they still provide essential services.
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ShadowFire15
BOAE INC -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.01.11 07:17:00 -
[291]
Edited by: ShadowFire15 on 11/01/2011 07:19:14 /me hums the un-nerf blackops song. It has a very catchy tune.
Star light Star bright First star I see tonight I wish I may I wish I might Have this wish come true tonight
I wish for bigger fuel bay and extended jump range at least by a little. Please with a cherry on top. :) ccp I promise to not bother you about fixing other stuff....at least until tomorrow. It is impossible to pod Chuck Norris. |
Dasquirrel715
Gallente Universalis Imperium Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.01.11 09:20:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Mike C Edited by: Mike C on 30/07/2010 21:53:01 I currently own and operate both the Redeemer and Widow. The Redeemer is one hell of a ship to use for 0.0 jump bridge freighter ganking, and the jump-in-and-insta-perma-jam on the widow can be nice in lowsec. However, they (like all BOBS) were nerfed pre-release, and are excruciatingly underpowered, even compared to an EOS.
Sin needs to be a gun platform Drones are simply not a damage platform suitable for the black ops intended role. In fact, the Kronos is much better suited to a drone boat than the Sin, and vice versa. Now I don't fly the sin and I don't plan to (because I'm not rеtarded), but this is all common sense.
Black Ops need, at the very least, old mothership jump range (4.0ly base) There are some gate-to-gate jumps you can't make. Their entire purpose can be negated by such a ridiculous situation. However, BOBS were meant to have a very high barrier of entry, so having a Covert Cynosural Navigation skill (requiring BOBS 4 and JDC 5) extend BOBS range would also be sufficient. Not only all of what I mentioned about this, but I had JDC 5 before even injecting (or at that time no inject option so training for 2 seconds) any skill for jump-capable ships so I know what max range is like and how insufficient it is.
Massive bridge fuel reduction, now To bridge a BOBS can take 60x the fuel it would have taken to jump it. Do you know what one's fuel bay (at the time cargo bay) feels like after having to bridge all your fellow BOBS because only you have JDC5? Not only that, but the fuel use per LY is completely out of whack, being 27x the fuel used if a titan bridged the same ship the same distance.
Fuel bay inproportionate to fuel consumption Because of the bridging fuel use (see above), one may have to refuel two or three times just to bridge a bomber fleet through a single jump. However if bridge fuel use was lowered (set to 1/25 of current should suffice), this issue would no longer be problematic
Inadequate Cloak Yes yes we all know how cloaking is now, but this ship really needs the covert cloak. Unlike the stealth bomber which only helped (somewhat), the blackops actually NEEDS the covert cloak. It has little to no real combat capabilities comapared to any pvp ship in eve (and jump mechanics make them their only practical target save for unescorted haulers who have to be idiots to be doing that to begin with) and as such a covert cloak would be far from OP.
Ship Maintenance Bay I'm not asking for some huge bay, just enough to store two frigates or a single cruiser. In addition, the maintenance bay would behave like the rorqual's, in that the BOBS bay would only be able to store ships capable of using it's portal. Some may consider this OP, and I'll admit it may be a bit excessive in addition to the covert cloak, but this change (in addition to standard T2 bonuses) would give it a support role which would not necessitate the covert cloak, sort of like the 2008 mothership. Obviously I am not pushing for a corporate hangar, that would be overly excessive even in a wet dream.
TL;DR the black ops really needs Increased range, 4.0ly base (9.0ly @ JDC5) should suffice Bridge fuel coefficient changed to at least a humane level Fuel Bay proportional to bridge fuel use (Fuel Bay should hold enough isos to bridge BOBS and 25 Manticores 4.5ly @ Bridge 4 JFC 5) Very small JH2-only ship maintenance bay
My 2ó
Most of this, and maybe enough of a maintenance bay for people to change mods, not hold any sort of ship.
Also, who was the dev who though of the agility bonus for sin WHAT WERE YOU THINKING! Improve these ccp and things will be better.
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ChromeStriker
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Posted - 2011.01.11 15:01:00 -
[293]
supported! not sure if its been said before but why not go along the stealth bomber root fit them out with capital weapons with some bonuses? anty capital anyone
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lwxsky oli
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.11 23:00:00 -
[294]
make them able to fit capital sized weapon and can shoot target battleship and up. (similar to the idea of stealth bomber)
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Lubomir Penev
Sausages of Truth
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Posted - 2011.01.12 02:32:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Dasquirrel715
Originally by: Mike C
Ship Maintenance Bay I'm not asking for some huge bay, just enough to store two frigates or a single cruiser. In addition, the maintenance bay would behave like the rorqual's, in that the BOBS bay would only be able to store ships capable of using it's portal.
Why are you quoting someone having no freaking idea of what he's talking about... The one time I used an Orca maintenance bay it was to drop a Tengu in it and it sure isn't a mining ship.
Frankly I was on a few Blacks Ops hotdrop recently and Black Ops pwn. Maybe they could use a light increase in range but even with Jump Drive calibration 4 they open lots of possibilities (exemple, systems in range from Osoggur with JDC4).
The fuel cost/fuel bay equation got the merit of limiting the size of the hotdropping gang, which is IMHO a good thing, the last thing EVE needs is mroe way to ridiculously outblob people.
Proposal wanting to make them sort of a carrier are plain stupid, I bet a good 95% of Black Ops pilots are carrier pilots, so if the situation call for a carrier they'll just jump in theirs...
The only thing I agree about 100% is that the Sin got issues and should basically be redone, but by someone with a clue for a change...
As for people wanting the covert ops cloak I've yet to read a single good reason, Black Ops don't warp to targets, they jump to them, and jumping from covert cyno to covert cyno is a way better way to evade camps than a covert ops cloak will ever be. Could someone provide a realistic scenario where a Covert Ops cloak would make a huge difference?
There are no macrominers in EVE |
Leovarian Lavitz
Minmatar Ghost Tribal Credit Union Sspectre
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Posted - 2011.01.12 05:51:00 -
[296]
. A variety of ideas were put forward which would make them harder to move around, the most promising of which was a æCyno SpoolingÆ time. Basically the idea is this: Cyno pilot drops a cyno in the destination system and depending on the distance from the departure system it takes a certain time to either get the cyno field up to the required strength or for the capital ships jump drives to get up to speed to make the jump. This time would increase with distance and the cyno would need to be defended during this period. This would limit the ability of Super-Capital (and Capital) fleets to hotdrop on targets with no warning from half the galaxy away, it would also mean that a Capital fleet would not be able to cross the entire galaxy in about 20 minutes. (taken from: http://keithneilson.co.uk/csm-summit-december-2010-part-3/)
This should not affect blackops jump drives and covert jumportals/covert cynos. That will be a huge boost to the stealth class.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2011.01.12 15:28:00 -
[297]
Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 12/01/2011 15:31:07
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Frankly I was on a few Blacks Ops hotdrop recently and Black Ops pwn. Maybe they could use a light increase in range but even with Jump Drive calibration 4 they open lots of possibilities (exemple, systems in range from Osoggur with JDC4).
What is your answere to the fact that some 0.0 are hugh? Sometimes u need to travel a region to get to a target region. How do u want to cross that without empty'ing your fuel bay for half? How about the +20 lightyear regional jumps? They still need to be done manualy and are often camped.
Idea: give bo always the possiblility to jump 1 connected system whateevr the ly is Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Avrose
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Posted - 2011.01.12 16:01:00 -
[298]
See here is the pinch.
You got a ship that can move around semi well without being seen that has okay dps where in a normal fight two BO ships de-cloaking of your port weapons locking without delay will shred anything before most people know what happened.
Just based on that mental picture non-cloakers first reaction is to nerf cloaking.
Long story short don't be afraid of the BO ships by buffing them fear being foolish in playing this multiplayer game alone!
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Lubomir Penev
Sausages of Truth
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Posted - 2011.01.12 16:48:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen How about the +20 lightyear regional jumps? They still need to be done manualy and are often camped.
if you can't escape a camp on a region gate you are pretty hopeless, most often people now camp one jump further to be on a smaller gate and that one is jump bridgeable.
There got to some risks still associated with BO, or are those calls for 'balance' are really call for a pwnmobile? There are no macrominers in EVE |
Trin Javidan
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Posted - 2011.01.12 21:50:00 -
[300]
Edited by: Trin Javidan on 12/01/2011 21:50:52 ccp pls fix them
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ShadowGod56
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Posted - 2011.01.14 04:38:00 -
[301]
i support the notion for Black Ops love
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2011.01.17 22:40:00 -
[302]
bump Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Jamtech Lingo
NosWaffle Nostradamus Effect
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Posted - 2011.01.23 09:11:00 -
[303]
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Froosh
Consolidated Capsuleers Protectorate
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Posted - 2011.01.24 22:41:00 -
[304]
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Ephemeron
Lubricous Rebel Alliance of New Eden
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Posted - 2011.01.24 23:19:00 -
[305]
I'd fly Black Ops in roaming PvP if they added 100 m/s to base speed
just one of the many possibilities to make it desirable
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Kelanoein
Eve University
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Posted - 2011.01.24 23:48:00 -
[306]
Is this the annual Raise the Black Op's thread?
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PC l0adletter
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Posted - 2011.01.25 05:50:00 -
[307]
It's been longer than 13 months, no?
Triple the range. Buff their tanks so people actually use them in combat instead of using them as mini-Titans.
How many more threads have to be posted about this?
I'm sick of begging CCP to fix their game while they waste my subscription dollars on vampires and console games.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2011.01.25 09:44:00 -
[308]
Originally by: PC l0adletter
I'm sick of begging CCP to fix their game while they waste my subscription dollars on vampires and console games.
his is why im closing this topic when i havnt heart about ccp in a week if they are working on it or not. This subject is running for 14 months, exellent prove that ccp dont even listen to CSM and that needs to be propaganded in a shot amount of time... Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Feffri
Sheep Teet Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.28 01:57:00 -
[309]
Edited by: Feffri on 28/01/2011 01:57:32 I support any buff to BO but I would suggest the domi hull used for sin and mega hull used for maurader be switched. Considering that domi is more pve and mega is more pvp. Plus guns are way better for bo role than drones. Main thing i would support would be allow covert clocking device on BO ships. For me the ability to warp while cloacked alone would make me more interested... or 50% price reduction. Secondary I support extended jump range and abilities being brought in line with their t1 counterparts which are about 1/10th the price. All other buffs I would consider gravy.
feff
ps c'mon ccp :)
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Natalia Kovac
Vivicide
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Posted - 2011.01.28 03:13:00 -
[310]
They still need to be looked at.
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Beck Thomson
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Posted - 2011.01.29 22:40:00 -
[311]
/signed
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2011.01.31 00:47:00 -
[312]
Bump for truth.
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Fournone
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Posted - 2011.01.31 03:00:00 -
[313]
I don't care how, fix the black ops.
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Selinate
Amarr Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.31 03:13:00 -
[314]
I honestly think that a delayed/removed local would be the best way to increase need and use of black ops. I don't honestly think the point of a black ops is to be a direct PvP boat.
As it stands now, local pretty much kills any purpose of a ship like this imo, since if you can't get some other ship into the target system without being detected in order to pop a covert cyno without being detected, etc., and then jump n' gank, there's not really much point to it imo.
But then again, that's just my opinion.
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Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
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Posted - 2011.02.02 10:26:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Selinate I honestly think that a delayed/removed local would be the best way to increase need and use of black ops. I don't honestly think the point of a black ops is to be a direct PvP boat.
As it stands now, local pretty much kills any purpose of a ship like this imo, since if you can't get some other ship into the target system without being detected in order to pop a covert cyno without being detected, etc., and then jump n' gank, there's not really much point to it imo.
But then again, that's just my opinion.
The point for the cyno is to be detected, aka baiting...
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Tranke Givenjer
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Posted - 2011.02.03 01:24:00 -
[316]
/signed
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Javelin6
Dirt Nap Squad
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Posted - 2011.02.04 16:11:00 -
[317]
Keeping hope alive. ______________________________________________
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Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.04 16:28:00 -
[318]
Finally.
Dead horse not need new cloaking ship buff. CCP Forget Black ops boost. Thx.
P.S.
Give cap usage for all cloak.
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Absent Cloaker
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Posted - 2011.02.08 19:36:00 -
[319]
Maybe just maybe my faith will be rewarded... |
Aerich e'Kieron
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Posted - 2011.02.16 15:11:00 -
[320]
+Support
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Adonis Magnko
LG Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.19 01:16:00 -
[321]
Support +1
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MAPUHO4KA
LG Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.20 03:23:00 -
[322]
Edited by: MAPUHO4KA on 20/02/2011 03:23:39 /signed
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Darksith69
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Posted - 2011.02.20 04:13:00 -
[323]
Edited by: Darksith69 on 20/02/2011 04:14:24 I support
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Lost Troll
Lethal Dosage. Violent Society
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Posted - 2011.02.20 19:53:00 -
[324]
The issues with black ops battleships, is either every one wants to give them a huge jump range for bridging the blockade runners or an insane damage out put with covert cloaking module.
Nether of these options fit the roll that the BO BS were intended to fill, and that was support.
Base Changes to All
- Have the Jump Portal Generation skill reduce isotope use by 10% per level on Covert Jump Portal Generator.
- Give a base Jump range 4 light years.
- Give all BO BS T2 resistances.
- Give all the use of the Covert Cloaking Module.
Individual Ship Changes
Redeemer
- Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in large energy turret capacitor use and 5% bonus to large energy turret rate of fire per level.
- Black Ops Skill Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously Cloaked and -96% to -100% reduced CPU need for cloaking device per level.
Widow
- Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus: 15% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level, 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal and falloff range per level, 20% Bonus to ECM Burst Range per level.
- Black Ops Skill Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously Cloaked and -96% to -100% reduced CPU need for cloaking device per level.
Sin
- Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to large hybrid turret damage and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per skill level.
- Black Ops Skill Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously Cloaked and -96% to -100% reduced CPU need for cloaking device per level.
Panther
- Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret Rate of Fire and 5% bonus to Siege and Cruise missile launcher Rate of Fire per level.
- Black Ops Skill Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously Cloaked and -96% to -100% reduced CPU need for cloaking device per level.
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William Loire
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Posted - 2011.02.22 20:24:00 -
[325]
Easy Band-aid: Why don't Black Ops just fall under Wormhole local rules.
I.E. They don't appear in local allowing them to act as logistics harass, not to mention Macro Scourge.
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Ba'lur Rorrot
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Posted - 2011.02.23 01:35:00 -
[326]
they need polish. better jump range +4 ly(titans still have a job moving every thing else ever) whats the use being sneaky if you cant get there. and all should probably do ewar stuff and damage bumps. and the all around T2 stuff they all get.(better fitting and race resist)
*IMHO- they should give them cov op cloak, but with the above stuff they would be useful enough for now.
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Sofaking Weetawded
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Posted - 2011.02.28 21:49:00 -
[327]
Edited by: Sofaking Weetawded on 28/02/2011 21:50:25
Originally by: Ryan Powers Edited by: Ryan Powers on 22/11/2009 06:26:14 /signed.
I'm Caldari and even I don't want to fly a Widow. :[
When I watch Clear Skies it makes me want to buy a Widow. Then I wake up. :(
edit: supported for some kind of improvement. Not really sure what since I don't fly them yet (even though I have a character that can.)
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Jade Knight07
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Posted - 2011.03.01 06:53:00 -
[328]
Closed...?
They really could use some help. Black ops ships could really use some help. Keep the thread alive someday they just might work on them.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2011.03.04 16:52:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Jade Knight07 Keep the thread alive someday they just might work on them.
I did,... for 15 months... guess avatars and rat pew pew stuffs is better to upgrade than working spazeshipz in a spaceshipz game? Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Marconus Orion
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.03.05 13:00:00 -
[330]
CCP please for the love of all that is holy throw us a bone!
Maybe you are not sure what to do with black ops but please, throw us a bone and un-nerf the scan resolution, lock range, hit points and give them T2 resistances. No it is not the silver bullet to fix black ops but it is a step in the right direction. It has been almost a year and a half. Please.
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Mavi Gioia
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Posted - 2011.03.10 08:41:00 -
[331]
They need to be un-nerfed wrt to ship stats, resists/hp/fitting/hardpoints etc. Then their jump range needs to be increased to something reasonable, less than a capital-class ship for sure, but more than it is now, an actual useable range. I mean currently Black Ops need to make two covert cyno jumps to go about 5 or 6 systems in some cases. It's so bad.
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Defenseless Miner
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Posted - 2011.03.27 18:57:00 -
[332]
any words on fanfest about bo?
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Dunkler Imperator
N.F.H.P. Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.03.27 20:24:00 -
[333]
had my redeemer for 4 months and have never used it in combat. Why would i?no advantage to do it.
Buff em make em usefull for other than a support platform. and so i don't have to fit it with cargo expanders to get some distance with a gang.
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RRNL
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.04 15:11:00 -
[334]
new quen quote:
"For the fifth quarter in a row, electronic attack ships were the least flown ship group. The growth in the number of titans being flown had led to them surpassing the number of black ops, with 472 titans and 449 black ops being piloted."
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Ospie
The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.04.06 14:33:00 -
[335]
Edited by: Ospie on 06/04/2011 14:33:02 I'd like to see:
- T2 resists (t2 ship bonuses in general improved) - Longer jump range - Nicer black ops skill bonus for all - Bit of love for panthers / sins, definitely sins (fly redeemer myself and aside from the above issues I generally think it's ok) - A little unrelated, but slightly different icon for covert cyno mod from regular cyno mod would be nice too (have lost a rapier before cause of this - AB/MWD got the love they needed and tbh the risk [per individual ship] is less w/ those)
As it is to get a real black ops gang going (not a bomber/recon briding BO's, but proper BOs) you want at least 4 heavy dps BOs (sorry sin :( ) since you really don't want to be sitting about in those expensive "shoot me cause I have little tank" ships for any amount of time. Trying to get enough people to hop in what's currently a bit of a gimmicky expensive gank ship at the same time can be tricky (before you even consider timezone / RL issues).
Anyway, I fully support any action that will improve the plight of these poor, though amazing, ships.
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Solaris Avanger
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Posted - 2011.04.10 01:23:00 -
[336]
suported i want a sin that do something better than just cloack compared to a domi
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Simeon Whiteheaven
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Posted - 2011.04.11 18:49:00 -
[337]
Black ops need some type of improvement, so I support this.
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EnthusiGASM
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Posted - 2011.04.12 02:09:00 -
[338]
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Spazz21
Angha
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Posted - 2011.04.12 04:15:00 -
[339]
Due to the Fact there are more Titans then BOPs, I feel as there is a gapping hole in BOPs as they are easy to build but obviously have less demand then a 50billion isk ship.
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Xtoveruss
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Posted - 2011.04.15 17:57:00 -
[340]
bump
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Jaik7
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Posted - 2011.04.16 00:31:00 -
[341]
the ship is purely to fill a logistical niche that very few people have. that being, getting a bunch of warships into a cyno jammed system in order to cause chaos. it is already a very powerful tool, capable of putting extremly dangerous ships deep into hostile "secured" space.
but it sucks at face to face engagements. the thing loses to its t1 counterpart. that said, WHY ARE YOU USING A BLACK OPS AS A DIRECT FIRE WEAPON?!?
the black ops is not supposed to be seen. it is supposed to move around ships that make people pee their pants when they see them. does ccp have to remove all combat bonuses to get you to see that? given my understanding of the ship's role, it is working as intended.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.16 08:59:00 -
[342]
Originally by: Spazz21 Due to the Fact there are more Titans then BOPs
Um, there are more Black Ops Battleships sold every month in Jita than there are titans in EVE. The QEN quote is the number of active hulls being used at the time the snapshot was taken, therefore it doesn't account for ships sitting in hangars while the owner is flying something else, or in SMAs, etc.
Because you can't dock a titan, more or less every character who owns one will have been sat in it at the time of the snapshot, whereas many of the blackops owners will have been flying around in other hulls.
Now, I don't disagree that the Blackops BSs are pretty underpowered and could do with some attention, but I thought I'd correct this misinterpretation of the data.
-----------------
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Alurie Santillian
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Posted - 2011.04.16 15:18:00 -
[343]
Yes it's a dead horse, but I'll bump it anyway. Yes, I am actually a BO pilot (BO V and all that).
A lot of people want BOs to be combat ships, but I simply want BOs to fulfill their role under a realistic set of in-game circumstances. Sure, they can fulfill their role in a limited fashion now, but only under ideal circumstance, which almost never present themselves. I won't get into individual race tweaks, though they could be a phase 2 of BO luv. In any case the class needs the following to become useful:
Non-Negotiable to Fulfill BO Role: òCovert cloak oI suppose the expectation now is the BO pilot is supposed to portal people in then sit there cloaked and wait to portal them out. Wow, that's fun CCP! Remember this is a game, and us foolish players actually want to enjoy it. òAbout double the jump range oThe current range is not tactically significant. òEither a larger fuel bay or less fuel consumption to portal ships oBringing along a Blockade Runner should not be mandatory for a highly specialized convert strike force. As it stand now all this means is someone has to drag an alt along, which is just plain tedious.
Would be nice: òHPs equal to T1 and Force Recon resistance bonuses òT3 able to fit Covert Cyno (Tangentially related)
I don't think these changes will take a lot of recourses from a Dev perspective, and I can't see there being much argument to these changes.
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Rosalina Sarinna
Intergalactic Syndicate Nulli Tertius
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Posted - 2011.04.16 17:37:00 -
[344]
Edited by: Rosalina Sarinna on 16/04/2011 17:39:11 Edited by: Rosalina Sarinna on 16/04/2011 17:37:57 I'll followup this last post just with the one suggestion;
Let Black Ops use Covert cloak, or some new Battleship version of it.
To be frank, it seems a bit silly that a BO has all the electronics and capability to create a covert portal, but can't even form a covert cloak around itself. Surely that would require less power/energy than creating a covert jump portal! We are, after all, talking about not only creating the portal, but cloaking the portal. I can't see how a portal would be easier to cloak than a battleship sized object seen as the object is just a 'solid shape' whereas a portal is a flux of energy the cloak has to adapt to or 'fight' with to maintain the cloak.
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Gabriel Karade
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.04.16 18:47:00 -
[345]
I actually quite like my Sin as it is, and wouldn't propose any major changes there. When the idea for T2 BS was first floated aeons ago however, I did hope sexy looking for a jump-drive capable blasterthron... though, on second thoughts, with blasters as they are these days - *lol*
Personally I see two possible routes: either make them worth the cost of acquiring in the first place i.e. beef up combat abilities e.t.c e.t.c
or,
accept them for what they are, but knock the build costs down signficantly (250M ish and I'd use it more often).
Either way, more jump range is also needed. --------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.04.17 02:45:00 -
[346]
DEAR OP
Quit your whining and raging and changing this topic on people. Repost with the original proposal now.
oh and it took 3 years for rockets.
Finally it's only a lost cause if you do something like this, so stop your *****ing and make it proper again. EvE never gave respect to anyone who backed downed and cried about it.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2011.04.17 12:29:00 -
[347]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk DEAR OP
Quit your whining and raging and changing this topic on people. Repost with the original proposal now.
oh and it took 3 years for rockets.
Finally it's only a lost cause if you do something like this, so stop your *****ing and make it proper again. EvE never gave respect to anyone who backed downed and cried about it.
yeah, your right, i know, it does kinda boost attention a bit tough,
Originally by: Jaik7 the ship is purely to fill a logistical niche that very few people have. that being, getting a bunch of warships into a cyno jammed system in order to cause chaos. it is already a very powerful tool, capable of putting extremly dangerous ships deep into hostile "secured" space.
but it sucks at face to face engagements. the thing loses to its t1 counterpart. that said, WHY ARE YOU USING A BLACK OPS AS A DIRECT FIRE WEAPON?!?
the black ops is not supposed to be seen. it is supposed to move around ships that make people pee their pants when they see them. does ccp have to remove all combat bonuses to get you to see that? given my understanding of the ship's role, it is working as intended.
Ugly troll spotted who doesnt know anything about black ops. ever tried bridging a recon? noob go check fluel consumption amount and pls reform your comment for your own good to not make u look like a complete fool Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Snaketzu
M. Corp M. PIRE
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Posted - 2011.05.04 21:02:00 -
[348]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Personally I see two possible routes: either make them worth the cost of acquiring in the first place i.e. beef up combat abilities e.t.c e.t.c
or,
accept them for what they are, but knock the build costs down signficantly (250M ish and I'd use it more often).
Either way, more jump range is also needed.
This. Understood that they are niche ships, but currently the niche is so small they are more of a curiosity than something useful. A little love would help. |
suptrader
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Posted - 2011.05.08 18:47:00 -
[349]
Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 31/12/2010 15:35:18 Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 11/10/2010 11:38:11 Changes needed: Sin: -Sin needs 2000 base power more, a lol 8800 (ccp did u forgot a 1 in front of the 8800? redeemer has 17000 base power) base power on a semi hybrid boat is fail -Remove all turret slots and replace 5 % hybrid damage bonus for a 25m3 drone bandwidth usage bonus per gallente bs level and increase max drone usage from 5 to 10 (max dps 950 with ogre's). -Change agility bonus to a 7,5% bonus in max velocity of drone flight time -Give sin the special bonus of scooping drones from 7,500 meters and deploying drones at 5,000 meter.
Redeemer: -Need a 30% boost in large pulse damage and a reduction from 125m3 drone to 25m3 drone bandwidth)
Widow: -Needs a 200 cpu boost -Needs 25% boost in torpedo dps -Needs a slight boost in cap recharge 10-20%
Panther: -Needs 1 extra mid slot -Needs a 40% boost in projectile dps and a reduction from 125m3 to 25m5 drone bandwidth -Velocity bonus need to be changed in a 10% fall off bonus per Black Op level
Changes in general: -Range increase from max 4,5ly to 6,5ly -Range formula should get an exception that the Black Op can always jump 1 system jump. Some systems with + 4,5ly (10ly-20ly, A to B with +4,5ly range need to be done manually in the current state) -Standard fuel bay increase from 1000m3 to 3000m3 -A bonus should be given to the fuel bay amount when a Black Op Jump Portal is fitted, it will add a additional X amount of m3 of fuel bay per black op level, example adds 3000m3 to fuel bay per Black Op level. -The Black Op Jump Portal should give a 10% reduction in fuel usage of that module per Black Op level. Currently a recon that bridges uses 1500-1600 fuel while only 6666 fits in the fuel bay
new: -All bo should use same type of fuel.
Suported, exept the range boost.
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Fara Naava
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Posted - 2011.05.08 23:11:00 -
[350]
Edited by: Fara Naava on 08/05/2011 23:11:13 Something else: How would everyone feel about splitting blackops into two versions ?
-one "combat black ops" with no portal for others, but those nice t2 resists + all the grid + combat boni that were proposed
-one "support black ops" with increased jump range + much bigger fuel bay + (maybe some kind of command bonus stuff)
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2011.05.10 09:28:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Fara Naava Edited by: Fara Naava on 08/05/2011 23:11:13 Something else: How would everyone feel about splitting blackops into two versions ?
-one "combat black ops" with no portal for others, but those nice t2 resists + all the grid + combat boni that were proposed
-one "support black ops" with increased jump range + much bigger fuel bay + (maybe some kind of command bonus stuff)
Good idea, would deffinaly solve some issue's. Most T2 ships have 2 or more variants, exept the black op's. Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Sarina Rhoda
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Posted - 2011.05.10 10:42:00 -
[352]
IIRC the QEN works by taking a snapshot at a given moment of how many of a certain ship is being piloted. BÆOps are an extremely niche ship and will only be flown when being used as apposed to titans that have to have a pilot in them at all times.
My point ? a) The QENÆs snapshot can be borderline useless as it doesnÆt take into account length of time the ship is flown or the number of a particular ship owned. I am pretty sure if you counted up the number of BoÆps owned it would exceed titans by a extreme margin. b) Quoting QEN as a reason to buff BÆOps is a flawed argument.
However I am in favour of buffing BÆOps, but not their base stats. I would only buff their jump range and either decrease the amount of fuel it takes to bridge people or the increase the amount of fuel they can hold in their fuel bay. The fact they canÆt bridge a proper recon fleet to their max jump range due to fuel limitations I think is what cripples them the most.
They are and should be IMO a mini titan (overpriced and only really useful for bridging gangs on-top of people) and should relatively weak for any type of solo work.
TLDR: ONLY buff jump range and either increase their fuel bay or decrease the amount of fuel they require to jump
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.05.11 05:32:00 -
[353]
Originally by: Sarina Rhoda IIRC the QEN works by taking a snapshot at a given moment of how many of a certain ship is being piloted. BÆOps are an extremely niche ship and will only be flown when being used as apposed to titans that have to have a pilot in them at all times.
My point ? a) The QENÆs snapshot can be borderline useless as it doesnÆt take into account length of time the ship is flown or the number of a particular ship owned. I am pretty sure if you counted up the number of BoÆps owned it would exceed titans by a extreme margin. b) Quoting QEN as a reason to buff BÆOps is a flawed argument.
Excellent point Sarina. You know what they say, 90% of people blindly use statistics without actually knowing what they mean
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Samillian
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:54:00 -
[354]
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.05.12 01:58:00 -
[355]
Originally by: Alurie Santillian Yes it's a dead horse, but I'll bump it anyway. Yes, I am actually a BO pilot (BO V and all that).
A lot of people want BOs to be combat ships, but I simply want BOs to fulfill their role under a realistic set of in-game circumstances. Sure, they can fulfill their role in a limited fashion now, but only under ideal circumstance, which almost never present themselves. I won't get into individual race tweaks, though they could be a phase 2 of BO luv. In any case the class needs the following to become useful:
Non-Negotiable to Fulfill BO Role: òCovert cloak oI suppose the expectation now is the BO pilot is supposed to portal people in then sit there cloaked and wait to portal them out. Wow, that's fun CCP! Remember this is a game, and us foolish players actually want to enjoy it. òAbout double the jump range oThe current range is not tactically significant. òEither a larger fuel bay or less fuel consumption to portal ships oBringing along a Blockade Runner should not be mandatory for a highly specialized convert strike force. As it stand now all this means is someone has to drag an alt along, which is just plain tedious.
Would be nice: òHPs equal to T1 and Force Recon resistance bonuses òT3 able to fit Covert Cyno (Tangentially related)
I don't think these changes will take a lot of recourses from a Dev perspective, and I can't see there being much argument to these changes.
I'm on the fence on this one, as I have never piloted one, but just playing devil's advocate, I would like to ask if anyone has considered the unexpected side effects of these buffs?
I mean, I think buffs to other ships in the past, though meaning well and did fix the problems with the ships that they were meant to fix, caused shifts in the play balance in the game, which were unintentional (for example, I think somebody in the forums once mentioned that suicide ganking is now much easier and cost effective for the ganker than before).
I would then hypothesize that allowing a BO ship to use covert ops cloak would make it the griefing ship of choice.
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Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.05.12 11:53:00 -
[356]
Im just going to leave this here for the people who think black ops cant fight toe to toe, you just need to have the right setup.
As for what boosts I would like to see for them I dont think a covert cloak is going to be helpful, its supposed to be a support ship not some solo gank mobile.
However I certainly wouldnt argue against boosts in their tank, DPS and jump range or against a substantial increase in their fuel bay size because that increases their ability to do what they were supposed to do in the first place, to support and enhance covert gangs.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php |
Eperor
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:08:00 -
[357]
Propolsal to create new module or ability to black ops to see cloucked ships on grid and be able to warp to them and declouck, that wil give defenders chane proteckt agenst afk clouckers hoo siting in systems days and weeks .
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Trin Javidan
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Posted - 2011.05.19 12:02:00 -
[358]
Makes 2 classes with a damage variant and a logistic type would be perfect
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Cyberus
WEPRA CORP WILD BOARS
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Posted - 2011.05.19 14:35:00 -
[359]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
THERE ARE MORE TITANS THEN BLACK OPS!
Only because of this! ===== * Your signature file is broken. Please use one that will display - Fallout |
Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.05.19 14:43:00 -
[360]
Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 19/05/2011 14:45:10 Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 19/05/2011 14:44:32 Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 19/05/2011 14:43:45
Originally by: Cyberus
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
THERE ARE MORE TITANS THEN BLACK OPS!
Only because of this!
As you seem to be the kind of person who only pays attention to the headlines, I'll bring you up to speed on this, (apologies for the lack of credit to the one on the thread who originally cited this fact) -- this statistic is completelyMISLEADINGand already shown to be a a red herring. If you have a Titan, you most likely will leave it piloted, as you cannot dock. So the figures in the QEN are inflated (QEN does state this in fine print). There is, with a great degree of certainty, more black ops than titans.
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Cyberus
Caldari WEPRA CORP WILD BOARS
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Posted - 2011.05.19 14:58:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Kaelie Onren Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 19/05/2011 14:45:10 Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 19/05/2011 14:44:32 Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 19/05/2011 14:43:45
Originally by: Cyberus
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
THERE ARE MORE TITANS THEN BLACK OPS!
Only because of this!
As you seem to be the kind of person who only pays attention to the headlines, I'll bring you up to speed on this, (apologies for the lack of credit to the one on the thread who originally cited this fact) -- this statistic is completelyMISLEADINGand already shown to be a a red herring. If you have a Titan, you most likely will leave it piloted, as you cannot dock. So the figures in the QEN are inflated (QEN does state this in fine print). There is, with a great degree of certainty, more black ops than titans.
If the titans were so unpopular/useless as Back Ops then we basicly did not seen so much pilots flying them and mostly been parked in capital ship hangars at POS. Or even better ppl wont bother to build them ===== * Your signature file is broken. Please use one that will display - Fallout |
Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.05.19 15:23:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Cyberus
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
As you seem to be the kind of person who only pays attention to the headlines, I'll bring you up to speed on this, (apologies for the lack of credit to the one on the thread who originally cited this fact) -- this statistic is completely MISLEADING and already shown to be a white elephant. If you have a Titan, you most likely will leave it piloted, as you cannot dock. So the figures in the QEN are inflated (QEN does state this in fine print). There is, with a great degree of certainty, more black ops than titans.
If the titans were so unpopular/useless as Back Ops then we basicly did not seen so much pilots flying them and mostly been parked in capital ship hangars at POS. Or even better ppl wont bother to build them
My point was just that your statement was based on a false premise. (and even then, I only piped up because you made it a point to 20pt font and bold your false premise). I make no statements about the conjectural nature of whether or not you 'see' more titans or not. Surely that will depend on what kind of player you are, (null sec, high sec etc). But I would naively expect to 'see' black ops less, I mean, they do operate cloaked most of the time right?
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Mystical Might
Amarr The Imperial Fedaykin
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Posted - 2011.05.19 17:07:00 -
[363]
I don't get it... Widow gets ECM bonus. Redeemer SHOULD get Neuting Bonus. Sin should get the Point range and damp. bonus. And The Panther should get the Stasis web / target painting bonus.
They're, essentially, covert ops / Recon ships, just of a different size.
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Mike C
Caldari MicroFunks
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Posted - 2011.05.19 23:38:00 -
[364]
Edited by: Mike C on 19/05/2011 23:38:18 As someone who has owned two BOBS pretty much since launch (The two useful ones, Widow and Redeemer acquired in that order), I can honestly say that they should have been built on a BC platform.
Posted this many times before, but I think the BOBS should get a maintenance bay with 120km¦ of space in which you can only put Jump Harmonics 2 ships (like the rorq to barges). Thats enough to carry ONE force recon or a couple of covops/bombers. But mainly this allows you to let your people refit. Like I said, the BOBS should be a subcapital mothership. High tank, refit bays.
EDIT: And to avoid trolls trying to discredit me by stating BOBS were only created recently, I was speaking of the BOBS launch. |
Quindaster
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Posted - 2011.05.22 20:22:00 -
[365]
Edited by: Quindaster on 22/05/2011 20:27:31 Black Ops need:
-More HP or better resists, I prefere better resists, cos it T2 and not T1 ships.
-Need more fuel bay, around 3-4000m3, usually if you jump or portal 2-3 ships, you don't have fuel on jump back!
-All Black Ops need 3 rig slots
-All Black Ops need 6 ly jump range
-All Black Ops need more CPU on 150 minimum, and Widow more powergrid to fit torpedos and energy neuts or smartbombs.
-Sin need new bonuses, cos now it's useless ship. Sin is not logistic, not neutro ship, not DPS ship - something useles and expensive gallente trash.
-Panther - need one more turret slot.
- T3 Covert ships need to be able to use covert cyno.
- All Black Ops shouls have some or ship maintaince bay for Recon ships (so you can put few bombers or 2 recons or T3 ship in it) Or you can add abillity to use fitting service for Black Ops.
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Sarina Rhoda
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Posted - 2011.05.22 21:27:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Quindaster Edited by: Quindaster on 22/05/2011 20:27:31 Black Ops need:
-More HP or better resists, I prefere better resists, cos it T2 and not T1 ships.
No they don't
Originally by: Quindaster
-Need more fuel bay, around 3-4000m3, usually if you jump or portal 2-3 ships, you don't have fuel on jump back!
Agree'd
Originally by: Quindaster
-All Black Ops need 3 rig slots
lol wtf are you on about no t2 ship gets 3 rigs......
Originally by: Quindaster
-All Black Ops need 6 ly jump range
Cba to do the math right now but yes B'ops do need a range buff i would say +20% on what they currently have
Originally by: Quindaster
-All Black Ops need more CPU on 150 minimum, and Widow more powergrid to fit torpedos and energy neuts or smartbombs.
No they don't current fittings are fine you just need to be smart
Originally by: Quindaster
-Sin need new bonuses, cos now it's useless ship. Sin is not logistic, not neutro ship, not DPS ship - something useles and expensive gallente trash.
Sin's bonus's are fine. The issue is a more generic hybrid fix. However i've run in several fleets where sin is used as the utility B'ops (portal, neuts, RR etc)
Originally by: Quindaster
-Panther - need one more turret slot.
Lol no...
Originally by: Quindaster
- T3 Covert ships need to be able to use covert cyno.
Haven't made up my mind on this yet sooo maybe ..
Originally by: Quindaster
- All Black Ops shouls have some or ship maintaince bay for Recon ships (so you can put few bombers or 2 recons or T3 ship in it) Or you can add abillity to use fitting service for Black Ops.
No No No No
Have you actually flown B'ops?
Black ops are not meant to have huge dps or huge ehp, they are not brawlers. If you want a brawler go by a tier 1/2 BS.
Issue with B'ops is that their range and fuel bay limits their primary function of moving and supporting recon fleets. They need a slight range buff and a massive fuel bay buff. THAT IS ALL.
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Shepard Book
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Posted - 2011.05.22 21:36:00 -
[367]
Edited by: Shepard Book on 22/05/2011 21:36:39 Oh Sarina...Some people might want to use them for more than portaling around other people. Not everyone has multiple accounts. I am not saying make them a better than t2 BS. I am saying give them a cov op cloak and a buff to either gank or tank and some need fitting help. The bonuses you speak of are helpful and needed but not all that is needed.
OK tell us all about how your the only one that knows what BOPS need again...
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Sarina Rhoda
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Posted - 2011.05.22 22:01:00 -
[368]
Originally by: Shepard Book Edited by: Shepard Book on 22/05/2011 21:36:39 Oh Sarina...Some people might want to use them for more than portaling around other people. Not everyone has multiple accounts. I am not saying make them a better than t2 BS. I am saying give them a cov op cloak and a buff to either gank or tank and some need fitting help. The bonuses you speak of are helpful and needed but not all that is needed.
OK tell us all about how your the only one that knows what BOPS need again...
B'ops are slightly underpowered but this is a classic case of people demanding far too much. There are lots of things you can do to make them better but that doesn't mean you need to implement all of them.
playing around with simple fits I am getting figures like 1050 dps and 92k ehp from redeemer, 875dps and 93k ehp from the sin (still suffers from :hybrids:), 1222 dps + 78k ehp from the widow and 1046dps + 65k ehp from the panther. Bearing in mind that these are not brawling ships I would say they are doing ok actually.
The main limiting factor in B'ops fleets is fuel. The first issue we've hit in every B'ops fleet I've been in is running out of fuel to portal a recon fleet to any decent range. Second main limiting factor is jump range. The tiny jump range drastically restricts tactical game play when it comes to hiding your fleet and making use of all the nooks and crannies in eves real star map.
The ships themselves are fine they just need a buff in their primary function.
And jesus cov'ops cloak would seriously break B'ops in terms of low-sec balence.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2011.05.23 13:06:00 -
[369]
Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 23/05/2011 13:09:22 Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 23/05/2011 13:06:23
Originally by: Sarina Rhoda
playing around with simple fits I am getting figures like 1050 dps and 92k ehp from redeemer, 875dps and 93k ehp from the sin (still suffers from :hybrids:), 1222 dps + 78k ehp from the widow and 1046dps + 65k ehp from the panther. Bearing in mind that these are not brawling ships I would say they are doing ok actually.
Pls give me screeny about how u manage to get 1222 dps from widow, is that with officer launcher? Redeemer damage widow damage phanter damage sin damage
All fits are with faction mods. I have fitted them all with only short range guns to make it comparable. Widow is often more used as ecm boat like this: widow support ecm
This is all on L5 skills and with faction mods. Its funny if u see the sin. Only 323 dps from the blaster (witch suck) and 475 from Ogre II. Issue here is that drone dps is just slow to apply. If u would it all in damage curve u will see that a sin never can catch up with a redeemer or phanter because they can apply insta damage. For the record, with those drone upgrades the ogre's move at 1734,4 m/s at L5 skills. This sin fitting shows exacly all the mistakes of sin choise of bonus's and whole gallente as a race. T2 sentry drones are not really a option since they have weird optimals and short falloffs. They simply not practical to use them, no time to pick them up and u dont want to sit stationary in quick gank. I almost forgot, T2 torps are really bad with no bonus for exposion velocity ect. It sais it does alot of damage but in theory u just trow paper torp and u may happy if u do 300 dps on anything smaller than a carrier... Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Quindaster
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Posted - 2011.05.23 13:41:00 -
[370]
Originally by: Sarina Rhoda
Originally by: Quindaster Edited by: Quindaster on 22/05/2011 20:27:31
Have you actually flown B'ops?
Black ops are not meant to have huge dps or huge ehp, they are not brawlers. If you want a brawler go by a tier 1/2 BS.
Yes, I usually fly on BO, and I use it against BS, faction BS and under centry guns and not only against mining barge in belt like you. When you use it to kill mining barge in belt, yes, you don't need anything from the list that I'm writing, but against mining barge you don't need to use BO, it's enough only simple bomber. So, I know what I'm talking about. This is the only one thing in EVE which is intresting to me, is flying on BO and do some recon operation.
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Andy Landen
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.23 15:48:00 -
[371]
Here is a really REALLY cool idea: Ability to hold a lock while cloaked. That's true Black ops right there. Ship scanner or cargo scanner works while cloaked for black ops recon power. Stuff like that. Funny that no one considers themselves evil, even while caught in the thick of it. |
McFly
Peanut Factory
|
Posted - 2011.05.24 02:14:00 -
[372]
Black Ops are fine as they are. If I could have 2 wishes it'd be....
+15-20% Jump Range -10-15% Jump Fuel Use
Whether you bridge bombers/recons/t3s around or go in and hotdrop with the BoBS both of these would be greatly welcomed. All while keeping them balanced from becoming FOTM Solo Gankers.
List of Black Ops NO's No Covops Cloak No Tank Boost No DPS Boost
When utilized correctly they are quite effective. Turning them into some idealized pwnmobile will only lead to a massive nerf/rebalance no one flying black ops wants to see.
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Demonic Blitz
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Posted - 2011.05.24 10:18:00 -
[373]
Originally by: McFly Black Ops are fine as they are.
CCP added them pre-nerfed and acknowledge this.
As a prolific lover of cloaks, and someone who believes that they are much too available today, the BOBS need Covops Cloaks. In fact, I am willing to deny your intelligence because you do not believe this, while covering my ears and making childish noises.
In all seriousness, all "BOBS are fine" arguments aref actually invalid as CCP admitted they added them pre-nerfed, so screw off. |
Sarina Rhoda
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Posted - 2011.05.24 15:03:00 -
[374]
Originally by: Demonic Blitz CCP admitted they added them pre-nerfed, so screw off.
Will respond to the other posts later but i just wanted to say pre-nerfed =/= underpowered. Also can you link this quote please.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
|
Posted - 2011.05.28 12:35:00 -
[375]
bump Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
Legionos McGuiros
Legio Prima Victrix Imperius Legio Victrix
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Posted - 2011.05.28 14:24:00 -
[376]
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Creepy Goat
Collateral.
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Posted - 2011.05.29 19:04:00 -
[377]
Oh god please. I would take my Redeemer out of the hangar if even just as a temporary compromise, we could fit covert-ops cloaks untill CCP gave Blops a proper overhaul.
They have such potential :( ----
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Bait Van
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Posted - 2011.05.29 19:18:00 -
[378]
slightly better jump range, nothing too extreme though
better fuel usage...bridging anything immediately starts eating up your fuel, and having a cov hauler or two is helpful but eats more fuel as well
other than those two things, I'm very happy with my Panther, I don't feel like they need much more of a boost.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2011.05.31 09:59:00 -
[379]
check check still not fixed Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416 |
CelticRanger
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.06.06 00:00:00 -
[380]
Edited by: CelticRanger on 06/06/2011 00:02:11 I agree with litraly everything posted on this page. At least make them like their t1 variants but with cloaking and covert cyno or bridging abilities for normal ships to covert cyno's would be interesting but I think what ever ccp does they should revisit the BO stats in this next incara update at the end of June
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Red Teufel
Blackened Skies
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Posted - 2011.06.06 17:15:00 -
[381]
ccp please give the black ops some loving...pretty please
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Selinate
Mocking Birds
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Posted - 2011.06.06 22:54:00 -
[382]
I support this since Black Ops ships are basically on my list of future skills trained...
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TopShatta
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2011.06.18 14:44:00 -
[383]
fix this pls
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Gabriel Karade
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.06.19 20:54:00 -
[384]
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 19/06/2011 20:54:11
Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 23/05/2011 13:09:22 Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 23/05/2011 13:06:23
Originally by: Sarina Rhoda
playing around with simple fits I am getting figures like 1050 dps and 92k ehp from redeemer, 875dps and 93k ehp from the sin (still suffers from :hybrids:), 1222 dps + 78k ehp from the widow and 1046dps + 65k ehp from the panther. Bearing in mind that these are not brawling ships I would say they are doing ok actually.
sin damage
All fits are with faction mods. I have fitted them all with only short range guns to make it comparable.
This is all on L5 skills and with faction mods. Its funny if u see the sin. Only 323 dps from the blaster (witch suck) and 475 from Ogre II.
The problem isn't the ship, it's the fit you've tried to bolt onto it. The Sin's bonus is actually very good if used properly (equivalent effect on agility, of having 2x nanofiber fitted).
Really the only major problem with the Sin is the same as the others - not enough jump range to realistically *do* the sneaky beaky stuff. Oh and blasters... --------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.19 22:46:00 -
[385]
just make them be able to participate in small battles, as i would like to use them for fight and a logis probably wont be fielded with them ,make them much more resilient ,t2 resists at least + better base hp-s
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Johnny May
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Posted - 2011.06.20 07:15:00 -
[386]
i am flying redeemer and widow, don't know much about the other two blackops, but i assume they are compareable.
A bit more fuel space would be fine, but working with cloaked hauler buddies pretty much makes this a lot less of an issue.
people have been asking for adding a covert cloak to the blackops, and as a blackop pilot, i have to disagree, a covert ops cloak would boost the blackops way too high, it allready is a good ship for its purpose.
alot of people seem to be complaining about buffer, dps output or both, to those i can only say: learn to fit. a proper setup blackops can 1on1 most regular fit battleships.
then there is the *****ing about the jump range - guys remember that the blackops is no capital ship and can use regular gates aswell, the jump drive helps in its role as a suprise weapon, but it shouldn't be its primary means of moving arround.
i believe that most of the 'blackops need a change/boost' comes from a crowd that in itself has not found a way how to use the blackops yet - the same people that fit cargo extenders on it and use it for a simple bridge.
Blackops ships as they are are good, they just need to be used in the right role.
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Soldarius
Caldari Northstar Cabal Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.06.28 09:55:00 -
[387]
Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen words
You sir, know nothing about fitting ECM ships or using torps.
Max skills, 1089dps, permajam on any subcap without ECCM, and cap stable unless you run the MWD and/or smartbomb. It can be fit with different rigs and a ZMT3000 implant to get 1255 dps. Its only vulnerability is to large drones. So get yer jams on quick.
Widow solo BS Hunter-killer.
lows: 3x CN BCS 1x utility low (I prefer a PDS II for more cap/shield/fitting. But you could go DC II, 4th BCS, speed/agility mod, or meta 4 SDA for better jams.)
Mids: 4x Hypnos Multispec ECM 1x meta 4 TP 1x T2 Warp Disruptor 1x Quad LiF Booster Rockets 1x Sensor Booster II w/scan res script (can be replaced with a webber or warp scrambler II)
Highs: 5x T2 Seige Missile Launchers w/Inferno Rage torps 1x Improved Cloaking Device II 1x Large Notos Explosive Charge
Rigs: Large Warhead Flare Catalyst Large Particle Dispersion Augmentor
Drones: 5x Hornet EC-300 5x Hammerhead II
No implants required. But if you want some more dps you can invest in a ZMT type implant to increase you raw dps. Couple fitting points: obviously for solo work you need a warp disruptor/scrambler of some kind. That means close in work. SO the range bonus of racial ECMs is useless. Also, the cumulative jam chance with 4 multispecs is better against a single target than if you had a rainbow rack. TP is great because it takes that 450m signature radius of a BS and pumps it to 650, which is just what your explosion radius is with Rage torps. Your flare rig brings the explosion velocity to just about 100m/s, which is just about the top velocity of most BS. The sebo is to compensate for the slower lock time due to the cloaking device and let you get your jams on before they can lock you and send out drones. The smartbomb can kill a flight of medium T2 drones within the buffer of its shields. If you want, you can swap the sebo for a webber or warp scrambler. But tbh, its a pain to get in range of a web/scram with a widow, even with the cloak. Medium drones for extra dps, and small ECM drones if the shiznit hits the fan and you need to gtfo.
Originally by: Krutoj You dont have a supercapital? buy PLEX trade it for ISK, buy supers. Just like any other mmo you can use your RL to pimp your character out (or tank for that matter).
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2011.07.19 12:37:00 -
[388]
they are finaly getting looked at....
Fix Black Op's |
Last Star Fighter
|
Posted - 2011.07.19 15:04:00 -
[389]
Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen they are finaly getting looked at....
WATCHING WHAT THEY DO, AND NOT WHAT THEY SAY CREW CHECKING IN. ***SPACESHIPS > ROBOTS*** |
Rayohth
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Posted - 2011.07.19 15:18:00 -
[390]
supported
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Trail Stevens
|
Posted - 2011.07.19 16:55:00 -
[391]
Edited by: Trail Stevens on 19/07/2011 17:16:30 Two words: Interdiction nullification.
Flame me.
Edit: and something that makes me having BLOPS lvl 5 worthwhile. Starting to think I should have trained jump cal V or carrier V instead. :p
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Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
|
Posted - 2011.07.19 17:07:00 -
[392]
The only tweaks BLOPS need are fuel bay size and jump range. Based on our corps experiences running BLOPS these are the only concerns that come up consistently no matter what type of fleet we try to use.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php |
Miskoranda
Sudden Buggery
|
Posted - 2011.07.20 07:35:00 -
[393]
To those who say they shouldn't use a covops cloak, I add: T3's. You can get 104K EHP out of a Proteus which can fit a cloak, has lower sig than any Black Ops BS, does 450DPS and gets scram range bonus, much greater scan res and agility, all fitted for the same cost as a Blops hull. If you compare the Black ops BS's to this, how could giving them a covert cloak create an out-of-control solo pwnmobile?
People are running massed cloaky T3 gangs, or T3 gangs with interdiction nullifiers, as it is. T3's have outclassed even a wet dream Blops scenario of covops cloak cloaky-warping battleships around.
I think the idea from '09 of splitting the class into two roles like Command Ships has merits: one for porting, the other for cloaky gangs. There is no such space as w-space.
There's just a-hole space. |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
|
Posted - 2011.07.21 01:05:00 -
[394]
Originally by: Miskoranda To those who say they shouldn't use a covops cloak, I add: T3's. You can get 104K EHP out of a Proteus which can fit a cloak, has lower sig than any Black Ops BS, does 450DPS and gets scram range bonus, much greater scan res and agility, all fitted for the same cost as a Blops hull. If you compare the Black ops BS's to this, how could giving them a covert cloak create an out-of-control solo pwnmobile?
OK ill bite. Lets say we give black ops the covert cloak.
Now we have a ship that has the ability to enter a system completely undetected save by the local count increasing (Because you jumped in to your covert cyno), no intel on how you got in or where you landed(the cyno is invisible unless you're on grid), no indication of where you went after you arrived (because you covert cloak) and no way to catch you unless you're the kind of idiot who makes cletus the slack jawed yokel look like stephen ****ing hawking. Oh and you can do all of this starting from a system light years away because you're jump capable, in ships that can easily get 1000dps from a combat focused fit.
And to top it all off if things are too tough for you solo just bring some friends, they dont even have to worry about getting into the target system thanks to the handy jump portal you can make for them.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php |
Javelin6
Dirt Nap Squad
|
Posted - 2011.07.21 02:45:00 -
[395]
Originally by: Darek Castigatus
Originally by: Miskoranda To those who say they shouldn't use a covops cloak, I add: T3's. You can get 104K EHP out of a Proteus which can fit a cloak, has lower sig than any Black Ops BS, does 450DPS and gets scram range bonus, much greater scan res and agility, all fitted for the same cost as a Blops hull. If you compare the Black ops BS's to this, how could giving them a covert cloak create an out-of-control solo pwnmobile?
OK ill bite. Lets say we give black ops the covert cloak.
Now we have a ship that has the ability to enter a system completely undetected save by the local count increasing (Because you jumped in to your covert cyno), no intel on how you got in or where you landed(the cyno is invisible unless you're on grid), no indication of where you went after you arrived (because you covert cloak) and no way to catch you unless you're the kind of idiot who makes cletus the slack jawed yokel look like stephen ****ing hawking. Oh and you can do all of this starting from a system light years away because you're jump capable, in ships that can easily get 1000dps from a combat focused fit.
And to top it all off if things are too tough for you solo just bring some friends, they don't even have to worry about getting into the target system thanks to the handy jump portal you can make for them.
Further imagine that it's 100 guys and not one.
I like the idea of covert cloaks on them, but larger groups of them I feel would be game breaking. And as we all know small groups is not the current paradigm. ______________________________________________
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Miskoranda
Sudden Buggery
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Posted - 2011.07.21 05:15:00 -
[396]
Originally by: Darek Castigatus
OK ill bite. Lets say we give black ops the covert cloak.
Now we have a ship that has the ability to enter a system completely undetected save by the local count increasing (Because you jumped in to your covert cyno), no intel on how you got in or where you landed(the cyno is invisible unless you're on grid), no indication of where you went after you arrived (because you covert cloak) and no way to catch you unless you're the kind of idiot who makes cletus the slack jawed yokel look like stephen ****ing hawking. Oh and you can do all of this starting from a system light years away because you're jump capable, in ships that can easily get 1000dps from a combat focused fit.
Guess what, there's these things called wormholes. wuuurm. hoooles.
So, your argument is that Blops can enter a system undetected except for +1 local, and this unbalances the game how? You can do this with recons, T3's already, if you live in w-space. Its not an auto-win button by a long shot. For a start, Local is too much of a crutch for you crybaby nullsec carebears. Oh, sorry, I mean hardass PVP deathdozers. When we lived in a C3 with K346 null static, we'd jump into system, hit d-scan. 5 drakes, wrecks. 10s later, either local has cleared (logoffski's) or d-scan has cleared (warp to safe, cloak). Then, if your carebears are desperate for cash and the mafioso they pay rent to are bored, you have 10-30+ dudes turn up in Local and it all turns to pup tents, kumbayah and smoky barbeque. They find your wormhole, and light a cyno, and you've got 3 aeons camping a wormhole exit. Yeah, a cloaky-warping BS is going to unbalance that right there!
You then go on to complain that Blops are a force multiplier which allows you to leverage multiple frinds from a system far, far away. like some kind of Darth Vader special weapon. Except, your average nullbear schoolgirl insta-safe POS-hugging My Little Pony tribute ratter will more than likely have the ability to port cap ships and supercaps.
If you think I'm kidding, you clearly don't know nullsec. its a hive of weenies, cowards and is safer than highsec these days because you can't be caught by neutral RR because there's no such thing. IMO, the more they free up black ops, the better it will make PVP in nullsec.
You'd be better off complaining aboutthe upcoming degradation of Local channel functionality in un-upgraded space. Then you'll be at risk for the first time ever. There is no such space as w-space.
There's just a-hole space. |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
|
Posted - 2011.07.21 12:09:00 -
[397]
Can you create a wormhole on demand in any system you chose for a few hundred units of ice products? A wormhole that is impossible to detect unless the person making it is a total idiot and cant be camped because it only exists for a few minutes? Didnt think so.
Trying to compare wormholes to covert cynos is missing the point on an epic scale. You also make the mistake of assuming I'm only talking about nullsec, although your comments about the timidity of a lot of the people who live there are fair. My alliance has been running lowsec black ops gangs for months and we're well aware of how powerful they can be.
The simple fact is that the black ops does not need any extra capabilitites to be a powerful and viable ship, what it needs is a boost to the things it can already do ie. extra jump range and increased fuel bay size.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2011.07.21 14:19:00 -
[398]
Originally by: Darek Castigatus
Originally by: Miskoranda To those who say they shouldn't use a covops cloak, I add: T3's. You can get 104K EHP out of a Proteus which can fit a cloak, has lower sig than any Black Ops BS, does 450DPS and gets scram range bonus, much greater scan res and agility, all fitted for the same cost as a Blops hull. If you compare the Black ops BS's to this, how could giving them a covert cloak create an out-of-control solo pwnmobile?
OK ill bite. Lets say we give black ops the covert cloak.
Now we have a ship that has the ability to enter a system completely undetected save by the local count increasing (Because you jumped in to your covert cyno), no intel on how you got in or where you landed(the cyno is invisible unless you're on grid), no indication of where you went after you arrived (because you covert cloak) and no way to catch you unless you're the kind of idiot who makes cletus the slack jawed yokel look like stephen ****ing hawking. Oh and you can do all of this starting from a system light years away because you're jump capable, in ships that can easily get 1000dps from a combat focused fit.
And to top it all off if things are too tough for you solo just bring some friends, they dont even have to worry about getting into the target system thanks to the handy jump portal you can make for them.
Do u even are fimiliar with the cyno mechanics? How do u cyno in a undetecable? u realize u need a cyna alt yes? Would he be blue? (thats retorical question)
Fix Black Op's |
Reaver Glitterstim
Legio Geminatus
|
Posted - 2011.07.23 02:09:00 -
[399]
I think the most important thing as far as getting Black Ops to be used more is not to buff the ships themselves, but rather to buff the black ops actions which they are designed to be used for.
So what I'm saying is, instead of trying to upgrade their stats, there should be changes to gameplay outside of the ships that make using them a much more popular strategy. --
Thousand Papercuts Project |
br'akken
|
Posted - 2011.07.23 03:13:00 -
[400]
The only things that black ops need are better tracking (explosion radius,velocity, and torp speed. For the widow.). And covert ops cloak. áá
NOT so it can jump in and warp undetected. But so it can ALSO warp around the system undetected.
We waited in belt so long once, áI actually fell asleep! á Once I finally make contact yes. áBlack ops is adzactly a WTF pawn mobile in 1v1 situations. á
As well it should be when it cost more than a carrier. á But you add a couple more ships and it can quickly become a trophy kill to even the noobest pvp gang. á
As it is now just bring a buddy to rat in the belt your in, áand wait until somone takes the bait. áNow you have even more mid slots for ECM, áand some backup.
Covert cloak isn't overpowered because of the saftey in numbers philosophy that already neutralizes the Black Ops today. áIt just gives the pilot more PVP opportunities. á Some of which will cost him a billion ISK. If you can afford to PVP in that everyday you deserve to.á
And no a large % of people cannot afford to do it. á
Now where's my BLOPS Carrier?!? áIt could be a regular carrier that can still use drones while cloaked. That's all.
Oh yeah the compromise could be that the BLOPS could only cloak from 0 to 3/4 warp speed ámaking it scannable withought making it impractical. áAnd as far as jumping in a fleet why not just give it a mass limit like wh's? áSay enough for a fleet of 6 bombers? Or mabe a stealth carrier? Hmmm?
Until then... if you warp in on me ratting "alone" áin a lach, dont bother calling for backup, ádon'táwaste time trying to run. áMy alts are flying a widow, and a command Loki. áMy Lach doubles as a cyno straight to my triage mom fleets teet; áAnd for you it's already way too late.
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Midnight Pheonix
Dark Reality Unified INVICTUS ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2011.07.23 08:11:00 -
[401]
In a recent interview. CCP Soundwave suggested that they will be repurposing the Black Ops like they did with the Bombers. Any hopes and maybe speculation on what they might turn into in the near future?
http://www.tacticalgamer.com/content/141-eve-online-incarnated.html
In the interview from Timestamp 11:00 to 11:30 is where it is specifically discussed.
Cheers,
Midna |
SMT008
|
Posted - 2011.07.23 14:18:00 -
[402]
Originally by: Fara Naava Edited by: Fara Naava on 08/05/2011 23:11:13 Something else: How would everyone feel about splitting blackops into two versions ?
-one "combat black ops" with no portal for others, but those nice t2 resists + all the grid + combat boni that were proposed
-one "support black ops" with increased jump range + much bigger fuel bay + (maybe some kind of command bonus stuff)
THIS !
CCP, you're doing things that are usually great and all, and thank you for that.
But still, it takes you YEARS to change some stats regarded as "Overly stupid" ! How hard would it be to see that Black Ops are underused ? Then, how hard would it be to change like, 3 or so values and to see what happens ? It's not like EVE's going to collapse if you buffed then a bit too much.
Really, two versions of the BO. That would fix everything. The Combat Black Op for quick "I'm in ! I'm ganking you and oohh session change timer is done, I killed you, I'm jumping out !"
T2 Resistances Shield/Armor/Structure HP according to it's "combat battleship" status About the same DPS as right now (More or less, 1k per ship) More powergrid (+2k on every BOs), seriously. The Sin have 11000 at max skills, you can't even fit 4 neutron blasters without needing any PWG module. That is awfull. Less stupid bonuses (Agility, Speed ?). In my humble opinion :
Panther =>
Battleship bonus : 5% Damage, 5% ROF BO bonus : 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers, 10% Web Range
That would prevent the target from going away. at lvl 5, that would be a 15km web range with T2, and something like 19.5km web range with T2 and overload.
Redeemer =>
Battleship bonus : 10% reduction to cap use, 5% ROF BO bonus : 20% reduction to neutralizers cap usage, 15% reduction to neutralizers duration.
Those bonuses would allow fast (reduction to neuts duration :)) neutralization capabilities, but without using too much cap, as capacitor is needed to jump out afterward.
Sin =>
Battleship bonus : 5% Damage, 10% drone hitpoints and damage BO bonus : 15% bonus to warp scramblers/disruptors range, 10% Remote sensor dampeners efficiency.
Looks like a big Arazu with a jump drive. Can scramble at 18.9km with T2 and overload.
Widow =>
Battleship bonus : 10% bonus to missile velocity, 10% bonus to explosion velocity and signature radius BO bonus : 30% bonus to ECM Target jammer strength, and an other one, maybe like target painter bonus ?
Nothing to say here. Except that, with BOs being sturdier, less ECMslots will be needed, and that makes room for Target painters.
And the second version, more like covert gang support, and that means :
T2 Resistances Actual Shield/Armor/Structure HP Poor DPS (Like, a good cruiser's DPS) but good Ewar capabilities No Covert Ops Cloacking, it's already really difficult to catch. Increased jump range Dramatically increased fuel bay capacity (10k. Or reduce the fuel needed per ton, that would fix the problem aswell) Special Command bonuses (Maybe create a new set of bonuses, like things that would be usefull to cloacky ships ? Scan resolution ? Reduced "delay before locking" for recon cruisers ?)
That would successfully create a ship that can jump and bridge ships for quite a long time, that can jump on the field (Covert cyno is 30s, Bridge is 20s, so you can actually get on the field right after your covertmates, so you can give them bonuses ! Also, DPS would be so poor that it wouldn't be used as a combat ship (Cloacky T3 would be cheaper and would have the same tank/DPS)
And, just in the end, I would allow this version of the Black Op Battleship to have a fitting service. It doesn't sounds too powerfull to me, since the Black Op is supposed to be an undercover mobile base of operation for covert gangs.
Finally, it's all about cost/capabilities. For such an expensive and skill intensive ship, that's what I would want to get in the end.
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Reithan
Sick Tight BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.07.24 04:23:00 -
[403]
Holy hell yes. Blops have so much promise to be such an awesome fun toy to use in game, but they're currently SOOOOO limited, SOOOOO overpriced and SOOOOOO underpowered.
For example, the widow vs the scorpion has:
Less Structure Less Shields Less Armor Less targeting range Less rig slots Less PG No turret hards (-4)
More thermal resist (10%more) Smaller Sig Better Scan res 12 more m/s 1 more high (used for cloak) 10 more CPU (used for cloak) 1 more launcher hard
It's just not a good tradeoff for the money. Scorpion is roughly 50m, maybe 70m fitted. Widow is NEARLY A BILLION FITTED.
So, for the price of a DOZEN scorpions, I can have a scorpion that has some awesome nifty abilities...but it fundamentally LESS GOOD than the scorpion? NO THANK YOU.
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Yana Steel
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Posted - 2011.07.24 12:04:00 -
[404]
This point may have been raised already.
Any buff or review should seriously consider the fact that it takes considerable time training skills up to be an effective Blops pilot yet the class is largely something of a gimmick or novelty due to its ineffectiveness unless blobbing with them or used as a poor mans titan.
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SMT008
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Posted - 2011.07.26 16:01:00 -
[405]
Bumping for great justice. |
Trail Stevens
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Posted - 2011.08.06 17:13:00 -
[406]
Here's one.
1) Add covert cloak
2) Player in black ops = player not in local
There, now you can pvp in null sec without having to try to miraculously catch people before they run to posses or have to fight supers. Not being in local is not game breaking because it is like that in wormhole so that is established as reasonable.
For all the nubs that think being able to warp cloaked and cyno is some sort of an overpowered advantage. You should look into combat scanner probes. They can kinda cover an entire system with no prob. And 30 seconds required to covert cyno is more than enough time to spot someone.
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Lance Stratos
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Posted - 2011.08.06 19:25:00 -
[407]
needs a boost to EWAR to make them more used. or give them a better tank. that what i say.
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Kali Omega
Pitch Black.
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Posted - 2011.08.07 02:38:00 -
[408]
A covert ops cloak would be cool but, ya I can see it being a bit to overpowered. For me I think the only thing that needs to be changed is jump range and maybe fuel bay but I won't push it. No need to change dps rate/ rate of fire or any of that...
Who ever made the comment about them taking a long time to train....really a jump drive equipped battleship takes to long?! Give me a break...
They are pricy, but well worth the cost. I have no issue paying the current price for them.
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Learath
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Posted - 2011.08.08 05:09:00 -
[409]
Originally by: Darek Castigatus
Originally by: Miskoranda To those who say they shouldn't use a covops cloak, I add: T3's. You can get 104K EHP out of a Proteus which can fit a cloak, has lower sig than any Black Ops BS, does 450DPS and gets scram range bonus, much greater scan res and agility, all fitted for the same cost as a Blops hull. If you compare the Black ops BS's to this, how could giving them a covert cloak create an out-of-control solo pwnmobile?
OK ill bite. Lets say we give black ops the covert cloak.
Now we have a ship that has the ability to enter a system completely undetected save by the local count increasing (Because you jumped in to your covert cyno), no intel on how you got in or where you landed(the cyno is invisible unless you're on grid), no indication of where you went after you arrived (because you covert cloak) and no way to catch you unless you're the kind of idiot who makes cletus the slack jawed yokel look like stephen ****ing hawking. Oh and you can do all of this starting from a system light years away because you're jump capable, in ships that can easily get 1000dps from a combat focused fit.
And to top it all off if things are too tough for you solo just bring some friends, they dont even have to worry about getting into the target system thanks to the handy jump portal you can make for them.
Wow! That sounds *nearly* as bad as WH space. |
Aramis Rosicrux
Gallente Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris
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Posted - 2011.08.10 19:10:00 -
[410]
I OPPOSE MOST OF THESE IDEAS, AND HERE IS WHY:
You are trying to make the ship a better combat vehicle, and we got craploads of great combat vehicles already.
This is a small gang covert semi-dedicated as a jump bridge for coverts...
Lets think about what a small gang, far into o.o needs.
1. How about a fitting room for ships, and a repair bay? And they can be used by the smaller gang ships (but NOT the BO ship itself) when repairs and refits are needed.
2. How about a covert area shield, a ship uncloaked by itself is effectively cloaked when near to the BO ship, allow ammo changes, refit and repairs.
3. How about an Anti-cloak pulse that breaks ALL cloaks in the grid (friendly and enemy and neutral?)
4. How about ability to fit one gang warfare module?
5. How about it grants extra bonuses to gang mates in grid, maybe extra sensor/ECCM/agility or maybe a speed bonus to whole fleet while in the same grid as the BO ship?
My point is we dont need an extra turret or more damage as they make the ship more useful for average pilots and soloers, but do little for the intended role.
Thank you,
Aramis Rosicrux
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Gabriel Karade
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.08.10 20:14:00 -
[411]
More jump range, lower build cost - job done.
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Video - 'War-Machine' |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2011.08.10 20:33:00 -
[412]
Originally by: Aramis Rosicrux I OPPOSE MOST OF THESE IDEAS, AND HERE IS WHY:
You are trying to make the ship a better combat vehicle, and we got craploads of great combat vehicles already.
This is a small gang covert semi-dedicated as a jump bridge for coverts...
Lets think about what a small gang, far into o.o needs.
1. How about a fitting room for ships, and a repair bay? And they can be used by the smaller gang ships (but NOT the BO ship itself) when repairs and refits are needed.
2. How about a covert area shield, a ship uncloaked by itself is effectively cloaked when near to the BO ship, allow ammo changes, refit and repairs.
3. How about an Anti-cloak pulse that breaks ALL cloaks in the grid (friendly and enemy and neutral?)
4. How about ability to fit one gang warfare module?
5. How about it grants extra bonuses to gang mates in grid, maybe extra sensor/ECCM/agility or maybe a speed bonus to whole fleet while in the same grid as the BO ship?
My point is we dont need an extra turret or more damage as they make the ship more useful for average pilots and soloers, but do little for the intended role.
Thank you,
Aramis Rosicrux
You have several neat suggestions... Although I'm not sure on the implementation of many of them: 1.) This is pretty much like a mini carrier... that uses/fields covert cynos/bridges. Probably not appropriate for the BO BS. 2.) This is a very interesting idea, but would be such a PITA to program, its just not feasible! What happens when you cloak another ship? Can it warp? Can it target? Can it launch drones? Can it activate mods? Does it suffer a decloaking targeting penalty? What happens if it has drones out, and you cloak it? Will they fail to cloak if their w/in 2 km's of an object? I can think of many ways to exploit this by cloaking my enemy! 3.) This would be OP on gatecamps.... The BO sits 300 km's on grid, decloaks and pulses anytime a cloaky ship tries to enter system. There's no defense, and the BO is a little too safe. Perhaps if it was a much more limited in range, like 20 km's, and the burst counts as aggression. 4.) This could be nice... 5.) Currently fleet bonus' work by system.... I don't think they can program in grid-only bonus', as if they could, they would probably have changed gang links to work only when on grid by now!
Finally, of course they are trying to make the BO about combat... What is the primary use of a covert cyno bridge? To hotdrop... Logistics with BO is just too expensive and limited in terms of range and fuel.... This is not how the ship is designed!
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Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari Deep Space Nomads Corp
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Posted - 2011.08.18 09:27:00 -
[413]
Black ops needs a buff of their jump range and fuel bay.
Base jump range should be at least: 4LY, 9LY with lvl5 jump drive calibration. That's the very least, it wouldn't be overpowered even if it surpassed carrier jump range. Their role is to ambush and sitting 2 jumps from the target system is not what I call ambush.
Black ops fuel bay should increase at least up to 3000m^3 at the very least, possibly even up to 5000m^3. Or they could decrease fuel usage, either way works.
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ZagaBoom
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Posted - 2011.09.09 12:19:00 -
[414]
There's probably good reason most of you havn't suggested this, but I cant help it :D
Give em cloaky warp! if i could cloaky warp in a black ops bs, id have one right now!
especially if you lowered sensor strength to account for the lawls pwn factor of having a 700 dps redeemer uncloak on you.
jst two cents, and their probably not so shiny as some other suggestions. |
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