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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Grumpy Owly
244
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:31:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:And yet login statstics do demonstrate that the game has stagnated. That has more to do with space pants and other poor decision making on CCP's part than anything we are doing. If CCP could point to an actual statistic that showed them that scamming was actually hurting the game they would change the EULA and put a stop to it. Everything else is just hot air.
Ok fair enough so nothing to do with Goons, ok, so where is this amazing pull the Goons are demonstrating for the appeal to the game on the server graph, please point it out? Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:33:00 -
[62] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:And yet login statstics do demonstrate that the game has stagnated. That has more to do with space pants and other poor decision making on CCP's part than anything we are doing. If CCP could point to an actual statistic that showed them that scamming was actually hurting the game they would change the EULA and put a stop to it. Everything else is just hot air. Ok fair enough so nothing to do with Goons, ok, so where is this amazing pull the Goons are demonstrating for the appeal to the game on the server graph, please point it out?
Tell you what, point to the part on the graph that's the people leaving the game over scamming. Don't present data then ask questions that have no relevance to the data. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1647
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:34:00 -
[63] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:And yet login statstics do demonstrate that the game has stagnated. That has more to do with space pants and other poor decision making on CCP's part than anything we are doing. If CCP could point to an actual statistic that showed them that scamming was actually hurting the game they would change the EULA and put a stop to it. Everything else is just hot air. Ok fair enough so nothing to do with Goons, ok, so where is this amazing pull the Goons are demonstrating for the appeal to the game on the server graph, please point it out?
Umm..."nothing to do with Goons" means we don't have an effect on the server graph. I don't think you know what you're asking for.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Grumpy Owly
244
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:35:00 -
[64] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:I can't see the second one for some reason but the first one doesn't include post-crucible. That information is way to dated to be applied to the current situation. E: After getting that to load it shows a slight increase which further proves that you are completely wrong. Also the one you really want, is the number of subscribed accounts, not logins.
Sorry i dont see it, all I see from the long term graph (which is up to date) is a downard trend to a virtual flat line, there is no serious growth trend to account for and please attribute it to Goons playstyle.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:37:00 -
[65] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:And yet login statstics do demonstrate that the game has stagnated. That has more to do with space pants and other poor decision making on CCP's part than anything we are doing. If CCP could point to an actual statistic that showed them that scamming was actually hurting the game they would change the EULA and put a stop to it. Everything else is just hot air. Ok fair enough so nothing to do with Goons, ok, so where is this amazing pull the Goons are demonstrating for the appeal to the game on the server graph, please point it out?
Also your character was created way before the worst of it back in summer 2011. So you really don't have a clue how bad it actually was and couldn't possibly have a true perception of stagnation in this game. |
Grumpy Owly
244
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:37:00 -
[66] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:And yet login statstics do demonstrate that the game has stagnated. That has more to do with space pants and other poor decision making on CCP's part than anything we are doing. If CCP could point to an actual statistic that showed them that scamming was actually hurting the game they would change the EULA and put a stop to it. Everything else is just hot air. Ok fair enough so nothing to do with Goons, ok, so where is this amazing pull the Goons are demonstrating for the appeal to the game on the server graph, please point it out? Tell you what, point to the part on the graph that's the people leaving the game over scamming. Don't present data then ask questions that have no relevance to the data.
Sorry if someone is making the claim that the Goons playstyle is an improvement to server numbers they have to prove it.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:38:00 -
[67] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:La Nariz wrote:I can't see the second one for some reason but the first one doesn't include post-crucible. That information is way to dated to be applied to the current situation. E: After getting that to load it shows a slight increase which further proves that you are completely wrong. Also the one you really want, is the number of subscribed accounts, not logins. Sorry i dont see it, all I see from the long term graph (which is up to date) is a downard trend to a virtual flat line, there is no serious growth trend to account for and please attribute it to Goons playstyle.
Where is this graph now, link it for me? It certainly is not one of the two you linked, the first one is not even current and the server login graphs show a very slight increase. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:42:00 -
[68] - Quote
I have some proof that scamming is a draw to the game, take a look at this article from the New York Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/15/business/15views.html
Right there word of mouth advertising for the game and a draw to it.
A good quote from that article: "But the word from Reykjavik isnGÇÖt likely to comfort EbankGÇÖs depositors. EveGÇÖs creators at CCP GÇö which employs its own economist and philosopher GÇö take a laissez-faire approach, leaving most such matters to the gameGÇÖs users to sort out."
Grumpy Owly wrote:Sorry if someone is making the claim that the Goons playstyle is an improvement to server numbers they have to prove it.
Funny by that logic you should have to prove all of your points which you haven't and can't. I don't have access to CCP's internal server statistics or I would bother with showing you the raw data. I sure as hell am not going to use out dated or off subject data to flail around trying to prove my point while frothing at the mouth in an angry seizure. |
Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
173
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:50:00 -
[69] - Quote
This is not in any way new. Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter |
None ofthe Above
78
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:50:00 -
[70] - Quote
Andski wrote:Quote:EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to the recruitment channel. This channel is intended for those players looking to find a new corporation, as well as those looking to enlist new players. Other activities, such as non-recruitment discussion is not permitted. No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporation's recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility.An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums. So what gives, why are you going down the road of prohibiting scams? I understand why character and timecode scams are not allowed, due to the fact that they involve the purchasing of services from CCP, but recruitment? Really? This rule is vague, it is selectively enforced and it goes completely against the spirit of the game. This rule also doesn't stop players from scouting out corporations to infiltrate and rob blind, it doesn't stop recruiters from looking for saps to recruit and gank - it is specifically targeted towards one type of scam. So I ask, why the double standard? Remove this rule.
Heh, you sure wound folks up.
He's trolling you silly people. Its not like he just discovered this today. It's been well known, and I think Andski and I may have even bs'ed about it before.
One of the few rules CCP has. I think it can probably stay just fine and the Goonskis will get over it someday.
Even None ofthe Above supports Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7! |
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Grumpy Owly
244
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:51:00 -
[71] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:I have some proof that scamming is a draw to the game, take a look at this article from the New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/15/business/15views.htmlRight there word of mouth advertising for the game and a draw to it. A good quote from that article: "But the word from Reykjavik isnGÇÖt likely to comfort EbankGÇÖs depositors. EveGÇÖs creators at CCP GÇö which employs its own economist and philosopher GÇö take a laissez-faire approach, leaving most such matters to the gameGÇÖs users to sort out." Grumpy Owly wrote:Sorry if someone is making the claim that the Goons playstyle is an improvement to server numbers they have to prove it. Funny by that logic you should have to prove all of your points which you haven't and can't. I don't have access to CCP's internal server statistics or I would bother with showing you the raw data. I sure as hell am not going to use out dated or off subject data to flail around trying to prove my point while frothing at the mouth in an angry seizure.
So 1 article amongst the 100's of them about EvE in various forms of marketing material substantiates the whole argument.
I placed them as a contra argument to the claims being projected, mainly as we have seen significant evidence in the forums of the differences in opinion represented to the Goons, not as an absolute factual representation.
But I don't want to explore the Goon hate phenomina beyond what is needed to make a point, as I don't have or want to see any motivations for seeing Goons not being a relevant part of EvE. But I'm not going to simply swallow the BS either. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2183
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:52:00 -
[72] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:This is not in any way new.
et tu?
it's old news, but it's about trying to get some light on this again "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.02.24 05:57:00 -
[73] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote: I placed them as a contra argument to the claims being projected, mainly as we have seen significant evidence in the forums of the differences in opinion represented to the Goons, not as a factual representation.
But I don't want to explore the Goon hate phenomina beyond what is needed to make a point, as I don't have or want to see any motivations for seeing Goons not being a relevant part of EvE. But I'm not going to simply swallow the BS either.
You do realize that the forum population is not a representative sample of the actual eve population right?
Your argument is basically one big bandwagon fallacy. Everyone on the forums whines about goons scamming them therefore scams should be removed.
You aren't making a point and I'm not feeding you any BS. The only thing you've done this entire thread is link an out of date graph and link a graph that's data had nothing to do with the point you were trying to make.
So please make a point.
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Grumpy Owly
244
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:03:00 -
[74] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote: I placed them as a contra argument to the claims being projected, mainly as we have seen significant evidence in the forums of the differences in opinion represented to the Goons, not as a factual representation.
But I don't want to explore the Goon hate phenomina beyond what is needed to make a point, as I don't have or want to see any motivations for seeing Goons not being a relevant part of EvE. But I'm not going to simply swallow the BS either.
You do realize that the forum population is not a representative sample of the actual eve population right? Your argument is basically one big bandwagon fallacy. Everyone on the forums whines about goons scamming them therefore scams should be removed. You aren't making a point and I'm not feeding you any BS. The only thing you've done this entire thread is link an out of date graph and link a graph that's data had nothing to do with the point you were trying to make. So please make a point.
Everyone off the forums, they hold no relevance or value, Goons have said so, pointless being here, nothing to see.
I have made points, don't expect you to like them and certainly would expect you to oppose them as a Goon. Not surprised you would simply try to deny the points.
TL;DR: IYO, bored now. I'll wait for CCP's comment.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:04:00 -
[75] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Everyone off the forums, they hold no relevance or value, Goons have said so, pointless being here, nothing to see. I have made points, don't expect you to like them and certainly would expect you to oppose them as a Goon. Not surprised you would simply try to deny the points. TL;DR: IYO, bored now. I'll wait for CCP's comment.
These points, where are they? |
Valentyn3
49
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:06:00 -
[76] - Quote
"A fool and his money are easily separated."
Every time someone comes here and QQ's about getting recruitment scammed I have to listen to them ***** about how they lost billions as a "sign up deposit" or something. How one gets that much money and sp's and doesn't think to research a corp before joining, especially if they ask for buttloads of cash, is beyond me.
While I think these stories are hilarious, I do think that the channels should be used for what they are designed for. Using the recruit channel to scam people with no intention accepting them is really no different than WTB/WTS spamming the channel. EvE why u no obey Newtonian Physics? |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:10:00 -
[77] - Quote
Valentyn3 wrote:While I think these stories are hilarious, I do think that the channels should be used for what they are designed for. Using the recruit channel to scam people with no intention accepting them is really no different than WTB/WTS spamming the channel.
That is a different type of advertisement and those two are not at all alike but I can agree with not letting the channel turn into Jita local. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
930
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:18:00 -
[78] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote: Sorry i dont see it, all I see from the long term graph (which is up to date) is a downard trend to a virtual flat line, there is no serious growth trend to account for and please attribute it to Goons playstyle.
I hope you're aware that time progresses from right to left on those graphs.
Try hovering your mouse over one. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Grumpy Owly
244
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:20:00 -
[79] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Valentyn3 wrote:While I think these stories are hilarious, I do think that the channels should be used for what they are designed for. Using the recruit channel to scam people with no intention accepting them is really no different than WTB/WTS spamming the channel. That is a different type of advertisement and those two are not at all alike but I can agree with not letting the channel turn into Jita local.
I see so when La Nairz says it it's a point. And you say your not in denial about my points:
Grumpy Owly wrote:Since I believe CCP have made this decision in order to benefit the growth of the community and to afford the purposeful use of the recruitment channel for its intended purpose.
Hypocrit. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
930
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:21:00 -
[80] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Hypocrite.
FTFY A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
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Grumpy Owly
244
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:29:00 -
[81] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote: Sorry i dont see it, all I see from the long term graph (which is up to date) is a downard trend to a virtual flat line, there is no serious growth trend to account for and please attribute it to Goons playstyle.
I hope you're aware that time progresses from right to left on those graphs. Try hovering your mouse over one. They were kind enough to label datapoints, even if they didn't have the foresight to properly label their axes.
So look at the last years figures, it starts in the 40k+ and stagnates down to the mid high 35k+.
Would you say that is a growth pattern?
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:31:00 -
[82] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:La Nariz wrote:Valentyn3 wrote:While I think these stories are hilarious, I do think that the channels should be used for what they are designed for. Using the recruit channel to scam people with no intention accepting them is really no different than WTB/WTS spamming the channel. That is a different type of advertisement and those two are not at all alike but I can agree with not letting the channel turn into Jita local. I see so when La Nairz says it it's a point. And you say your not in denial about my points: Grumpy Owly wrote:Since I believe CCP have made this decision in order to benefit the growth of the community and to afford the purposeful use of the recruitment channel for its intended purpose. Hypocrit.
I have no idea what you are trying to say. Are you calling yourself a hippocrite? All you said in your quote is that in your opinion CCP is right. You didn't make any points. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
930
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:32:00 -
[83] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote: Sorry i dont see it, all I see from the long term graph (which is up to date) is a downard trend to a virtual flat line, there is no serious growth trend to account for and please attribute it to Goons playstyle.
I hope you're aware that time progresses from right to left on those graphs. Try hovering your mouse over one. They were kind enough to label datapoints, even if they didn't have the foresight to properly label their axes. So look at the last years figures, it starts in the 40k+ and stagnates down to the mid high 35k+. Would you say that is a growth pattern?
Read them again.
Everyone knows Incarna bombed. Subs are climbing now. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Grumpy Owly
244
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:33:00 -
[84] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:
Hypocrite.
FTFY
have to excuse my clumsy fingers. thanks however.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
None ofthe Above
78
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:34:00 -
[85] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:
Heh, you sure wound folks up.
He's trolling you silly people. Its not like he just discovered this today. It's been well known, and I think Andski and I may have even bs'ed about it before.
One of the few rules CCP has. I think it can probably stay just fine and the Goonskis will get over it someday.
Andski has ranted at me quite earnestly in the "CSM7 Town Hall" chat channel in game.
Apparently no troll, those are genu-wine goon tears of rage folks.
My apologies, my dear Andski
Even None ofthe Above supports Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7! |
Grumpy Owly
244
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:35:00 -
[86] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote: Sorry i dont see it, all I see from the long term graph (which is up to date) is a downard trend to a virtual flat line, there is no serious growth trend to account for and please attribute it to Goons playstyle.
I hope you're aware that time progresses from right to left on those graphs. Try hovering your mouse over one. They were kind enough to label datapoints, even if they didn't have the foresight to properly label their axes. So look at the last years figures, it starts in the 40k+ and stagnates down to the mid high 35k+. Would you say that is a growth pattern? Read them again. Everyone knows Incarna bombed. Subs are climbing now.
Kind of missing the point, I know about the incarna bomb, I know about the crucible enthusiasm. I don't see any real growth to shout about, and I certainly dont see the issues attributable to Goons playstyle which is what the discussion was about. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
54
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:37:00 -
[87] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote: Read them again.
Everyone knows Incarna bombed. Subs are climbing now.
Incarna doesn't explain the stagnation since late 2009.
Think it's way too early to call whether the current growth is the start of an Apocrypha-like development (which lifted subscriptions from the level they were starting to stabilize at in 2008 to the current one) or just a temporary rise as we saw with Incursion. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
930
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:40:00 -
[88] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Kind of missing the point, I know about the incarna bomb, I know about the crucible enthusiasm, though that seems to have simply peaked and died from the graph. I don't see any growth to shout about, and I certainly dont see the issues attributable to Goons playstyle which is what the discussion was about.
You can't really track that sort of data without new player questionnaires over a multi-year period. If thats the point you were trying to make, linking to overall subscription graphs was honestly either very stupid or an attempt at misdirection.
I can tell you this however - Little Bees is why I came back to EVE after quitting in like 2006, and all of my RL friends ho played came back due to similar propaganda videos.
No one does propaganda like the CFC and historically, the Goons specifically. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
92
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:44:00 -
[89] - Quote
Xystance wrote:This is the classic slippery slope.
The inside of your hollow head is a slippery slope.
The relevant metaphor would be bad money drives out good. If scamming was allowed in the recruitment channel, then the recruitment channel would soon become only scams, and as a result it would be useless to everyone. |
Grumpy Owly
244
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:51:00 -
[90] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:
Kind of missing the point, I know about the incarna bomb, I know about the crucible enthusiasm, though that seems to have simply peaked and died from the graph. I don't see any growth to shout about, and I certainly dont see the issues attributable to Goons playstyle which is what the discussion was about.
You can't really track that sort of data without new player questionnaires over a multi-year period. If thats the point you were trying to make, linking to overall subscription graphs was honestly either very stupid or an attempt at misdirection. I can tell you this however - Little Bees is why I came back to EVE after quitting in like 2006, and all of my RL friends ho played came back due to similar propaganda videos. No one does propaganda like the CFC and historically, the Goons specifically.
Someone asked to see a graph of the details, I obliged, as I had explained that game interest has stagnated. Considering that numbers are vitually the same over the entire year I would say that is an accurate assessment. And not the hopefull growth patterns we might like to see for the betterment of EvE. Certainly no growth patterns as a supposed benefit from scamming.
Happy that you are and your friends are more enthused in the game however. And i do hope EvE is on a U turn and will turn into something more substantial in terms of a player base. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
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