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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2173
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to the recruitment channel. This channel is intended for those players looking to find a new corporation, as well as those looking to enlist new players. Other activities, such as non-recruitment discussion is not permitted. No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporation's recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility.An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums.
So what gives, why are you going down the road of prohibiting scams? I understand why character and timecode scams are not allowed, due to the fact that they involve the purchasing of services from CCP, but recruitment? Really? This rule is vague, it is selectively enforced and it goes completely against the spirit of the game. This rule also doesn't stop players from scouting out corporations to infiltrate and rob blind, it doesn't stop recruiters from looking for saps to recruit and gank - it is specifically targeted towards one type of scam. So I ask, why the double standard? Remove this rule. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Jed Mosley
Bandito Industries Malicious Rage
2
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
So according to you, having the recruitment channel purely for recruitment = CCP banning all means of scamming?
OMG WTF CCP WAI U DO DIS LIK DIS IF U CRYED EVERITIM.
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Endeavour Starfleet
653
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Stop being a fool.
Only noobs use this channel and a scam there can literally deprive CCP of future funds.
It is a tradeoff. There has to be SOME protection of newer players due to the issues leading to difficulty getting into proper grouping that can help them advance (Not all want to go to Eve Uni)
Stop using the word "sandbox" every time you get stopped from abusing systems intended to help newer players. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2173
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Stop being a fool.
Only noobs use this channel and a scam there can literally deprive CCP of future funds.
It is a tradeoff. There has to be SOME protection of newer players due to the issues leading to difficulty getting into proper grouping that can help them advance (Not all want to go to Eve Uni)
Stop using the word "sandbox" every time you get stopped from abusing systems intended to help newer players.
"New players" don't tend to have 20b in the wallet, T3s gathering dust and 50M SP, hope that helps. The recruitment channel isn't exclusively used by new players.
"53 mil sp amarr focused, looking for mission corp in CALDARI space, 20 member minimum, US TZ, no pvp, not interested." "played this game for 7 years, have in excess of 100m sp and want to sell alliance. toon and isk so convo me if interested"
Yeah, that channel isn't exclusively used by newbs. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Kehro Urgus
139
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Goon tears I hear voices and they don't like you very much! |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
551
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm split. While I understand that protecting a channel that newbies are likely to use for recruitment makes sense, protecting people like the ones Andski described does not make sense. It's the difference between "newb" and "noob". The former deserves to be taught and welcomed to Eve. The latter deserves their ship taken away by explosion or scam. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers. US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join us. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. |
Grumpy Owly
242
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Andski wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Stop being a fool. ..... hope that helps
nope and your an arrogant idiot.
waah, waah, waah, I believe I'm entitled to everything and overturn rulings, just like all other rational systems implemented by CCP. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2173
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Andski wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Stop being a fool. ..... hope that helps nope and your an arrogant idiot. waah, waah, waah, I believe I'm entitled to everything and overturn rulings, just like all other rational systems implemented by CCP.
You are one of those who believes suicide ganking, scams and any sort of non-consensual PvP is bad for the game. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Xystance
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
261
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
This is the classic slippery slope.
No scamming in a recruitment channel for fear of losing everything. No finding out about people existing from recruitment channel for fear of losing everything. No scamming people. No can dropping in highsec for pvp. No pvp in highsec.
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Grumpy Owly
242
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Andski wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Andski wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Stop being a fool. ..... hope that helps nope and your an arrogant idiot. waah, waah, waah, I believe I'm entitled to everything and overturn rulings, just like all other rational systems implemented by CCP. You are one of those who believes suicide ganking, scams and any sort of non-consensual PvP is bad for the game.
Wrong, I beleive they are valid mechanics in the right frame IG. I do not condone the removal of them or their cessation.
PvP is good for the game. As an obvious example why would I be promoting bounty hunting?
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
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Endeavour Starfleet
653
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
I question that so called 7 year player using that channel (Assuming thats not a noob with a character bought from a friend or ebay which is against the EULA anyway) Yet I am now wondering.
Why are you needing to use that channel in the first place?
Fools trying to join Goons without going to SA first are a dime a dozen. You cant be seriously saying you are having enough trouble finding them to warrant needing free reign over that channel. |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
95
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP hates you. They hate hate hate your corp, they hate your alliance, they hate your smelly little dog, Toto too.
They want you to die in a horrible, smelly, festering, hate filled pit of hate and contempt.
Mostly they just hate you though.
Oh yea, Stuffs. Now. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
930
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
I disagree with scamming newbros, as well as disagree with blanket bans for behavior like this.
I'm pretty torn TBH, but this CCP decision is indeed on a slippery slope. It would be nice to design a "corp finder" with similar functionality to the agent finder so the channel itself could be free game again, but thats not a tiny task.
My point is, there are much better ways to ensure new players have positive first experiences with EVE than this. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2175
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ocih wrote:CCP hates you. They hate hate hate your corp, they hate your alliance, they hate your smelly little dog, Toto too.
They want you to die in a horrible, smelly, festering, hate filled pit of hate and contempt.
Mostly they just hate you though.
Oh yea, Stuffs. Now.
That 1 billion ISK you paid for a vanity alliance ticker is surely paying off.
Akirei Scytale wrote:I disagree with scamming newbros, as well as disagree with blanket bans for behavior like this.
I feel that the whole "scamming new players" thing is just something that the ~anti-griefer~ crowd likes to harp on about. What defines a "new player?" How is a new player even worth scamming?
My experience is that scams see much more ISK going the other way - I've seen newbies in my alliance scam 70M SP bittervets out of ISK and ships in their first week. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Endeavour Starfleet
653
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:I disagree with scamming newbros, as well as disagree with blanket bans for behavior like this.
I'm pretty torn TBH, but this CCP decision is indeed on a slippery slope. It would be nice to design a "corp finder" with similar functionality to the agent finder so the channel itself could be free game again, but thats not a tiny task.
My point is, there are much better ways to ensure new players have positive first experiences with EVE than this.
There are many paths to removing these restrictions.
#1 Is this http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Possibly_Practical_POS_Performance_Proposal_%28CSM%29 fully modular permissions and divisions will mean the spy and thief threat can be better managed so noobs will be in demand again instead of shunned as potential spiez.
There are other good ideas as well.
So its not slippery slope. Its a temporary band aid. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2175
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:I disagree with scamming newbros, as well as disagree with blanket bans for behavior like this.
I'm pretty torn TBH, but this CCP decision is indeed on a slippery slope. It would be nice to design a "corp finder" with similar functionality to the agent finder so the channel itself could be free game again, but thats not a tiny task.
My point is, there are much better ways to ensure new players have positive first experiences with EVE than this. There are many paths to removing these restrictions. #1 Is this http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Possibly_Practical_POS_Performance_Proposal_%28CSM%29 fully modular permissions and divisions will mean the spy and thief threat can be better managed so noobs will be in demand again instead of shunned as potential spiez. There are other good ideas as well. So its not slippery slope. Its a temporary band aid.
That doesn't even apply outside of wormholes, and really, a perfectly viable solution exists in feeder/training corps. It's also not relevant. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
95
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Andski wrote:Ocih wrote:CCP hates you. They hate hate hate your corp, they hate your alliance, they hate your smelly little dog, Toto too.
They want you to die in a horrible, smelly, festering, hate filled pit of hate and contempt.
Mostly they just hate you though.
Oh yea, Stuffs. Now. That 1 billion ISK you paid for a vanity alliance ticker is surely paying off.
It was cheaper than a Monocle. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:I disagree with scamming newbros, as well as disagree with blanket bans for behavior like this.
I'm pretty torn TBH, but this CCP decision is indeed on a slippery slope. It would be nice to design a "corp finder" with similar functionality to the agent finder so the channel itself could be free game again, but thats not a tiny task.
My point is, there are much better ways to ensure new players have positive first experiences with EVE than this. There are many paths to removing these restrictions. #1 Is this http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Possibly_Practical_POS_Performance_Proposal_%28CSM%29 fully modular permissions and divisions will mean the spy and thief threat can be better managed so noobs will be in demand again instead of shunned as potential spiez. There are other good ideas as well. So its not slippery slope. Its a temporary band aid.
How about instead of implementing that proposal they just let the game continue to be a sandbox. They don't even need to do anything to do that. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3278
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
Much more rewarding to let the fruit ripen before you reap them.
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Cyprus Black
Cowboy Diplomacy
145
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
Andski wrote:Quote:EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to the recruitment channel. This channel is intended for those players looking to find a new corporation, as well as those looking to enlist new players. Other activities, such as non-recruitment discussion is not permitted. No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporation's recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility.An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums. So what gives, why are you going down the road of prohibiting scams? I understand why character and timecode scams are not allowed, due to the fact that they involve the purchasing of services from CCP, but recruitment? Really? This rule is vague, it is selectively enforced and it goes completely against the spirit of the game. This rule also doesn't stop players from scouting out corporations to infiltrate and rob blind, it doesn't stop recruiters from looking for saps to recruit and gank - it is specifically targeted towards one type of scam. So I ask, why the double standard? Remove this rule.
Now see here, uh... Hair Face. The recruitment channel is intended for recruitment and although you Goons are notorious recruit scammers, you will have to find your own channel to scam in. Follow my EvE blog at: http://cyprusblack.blogspot.com/ |
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Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
347
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Posted - 2012.02.24 04:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
Because the recruitment channel is an official CCP moderated channel, and as such scamming is not tolerated there. Not to mention that the recruitment channel is part of the NPE, which is sacred to CCP.
Believe it or not, CCP does not actually endorse scamming. In fact, CCP's official policy on scamming is that it is undesirable, but not against the rules:
"TenTonHammer" wrote: CCP is against scams and scam artists of this nature in-general, but so long as people abide by the EULA, funds or assets acquired through what one would term fraud and/or embezzlement in RL are within the context of the game at-large, and thus not actionable by CCP.
CCP was referring to the EIB scam here. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2180
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
Taedrin wrote:Because the recruitment channel is an official CCP moderated channel, and as such scamming is not tolerated there. Not to mention that the recruitment channel is part of the NPE, which is sacred to CCP.
Great, then restrict its access to new players. Sound solution. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2180
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:Now see here, uh... Hair Face. The recruitment channel is intended for recruitment and although you Goons are notorious recruit scammers, you will have to find your own channel to scam in.
Jita local is intended for chat. So much for that! "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1647
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Taedrin wrote:Because the recruitment channel is an official CCP moderated channel, and as such scamming is not tolerated there. Not to mention that the recruitment channel is part of the NPE, which is sacred to CCP. Believe it or not, CCP does not actually endorse scamming. In fact, CCP's official policy on scamming is that it is undesirable, but not against the rules: "TenTonHammer" wrote: CCP is against scams and scam artists of this nature in-general, but so long as people abide by the EULA, funds or assets acquired through what one would term fraud and/or embezzlement in RL are within the context of the game at-large, and thus not actionable by CCP.
CCP was referring to the EIB scam here.
This is a dumb argument. If CCP doesn't want scamming in their game all they have to do is change the EULA.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
930
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
Andski wrote:
I feel that the whole "scamming new players" thing is just something that the ~anti-griefer~ crowd likes to harp on about. What defines a "new player?" How is a new player even worth scamming?
My experience is that scams see much more ISK going the other way - I've seen newbies in my alliance scam 70M SP bittervets out of ISK and ships in their first week.
That's a valid point, but here's how I see it.
Quite a few new players get royally screwed by scams, they are by far the most vulnerable group to them. This often results in lower player retention for EVE. Making it completely illegal to scam them is just a bad idea - it breaks the very core of EVE - but giving them somewhat safer means of getting themselves started only makes EVE better for everyone by maximizing player retention.
Things like channels where scamming is a bannable offense simply aren't the way to fix this. If anything, just gently nudge newer players towards groups like EUNI or Agony, so they can get on their feet before being swept off them for the first time.
Scams should simply never be bannable unless they are only possible as a result of blatant manipulation of mechanics. I'm all for making it harder to scam fresh-faced newbros, but not making it an impossibility. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Endeavour Starfleet
655
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Andski wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:I disagree with scamming newbros, as well as disagree with blanket bans for behavior like this.
I'm pretty torn TBH, but this CCP decision is indeed on a slippery slope. It would be nice to design a "corp finder" with similar functionality to the agent finder so the channel itself could be free game again, but thats not a tiny task.
My point is, there are much better ways to ensure new players have positive first experiences with EVE than this. There are many paths to removing these restrictions. #1 Is this http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Possibly_Practical_POS_Performance_Proposal_%28CSM%29 fully modular permissions and divisions will mean the spy and thief threat can be better managed so noobs will be in demand again instead of shunned as potential spiez. There are other good ideas as well. So its not slippery slope. Its a temporary band aid. That doesn't even apply outside of wormholes, and really, a perfectly viable solution exists in feeder/training corps. It's also not relevant.
I question how long you have seriously been playing EVE if you don't consider the huge issues of corp theft and it's effect on newer players relevant.
Regardless for the time being the rule is needed. Stop whining. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2180
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:I question how long you have seriously been playing EVE if you don't consider the huge issues of corp theft and it's effect on newer players relevant.
Regardless for the time being the rule is needed. Stop whining.
Corp theft happens when incompetent CEOs and directors hand out roles willy-nilly. And why is the rule necessary? It is not. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Terazul
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.02.24 04:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
More like the recruitment channel kiiiind of loses its luster if it's constantly being spammed by scam artists instead of people trying to actually get people into their corporation. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
930
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
Terazul wrote:More like the recruitment channel kiiiind of loses its luster if it's constantly being spammed by scam artists instead of people trying to actually get people into their corporation.
As if it was ever a good place to find a corp. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
670
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
Kehro Urgus wrote:Goon tears
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDFjaIlp74A
-áThough All Men Do Despise Us |
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