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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2173
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to the recruitment channel. This channel is intended for those players looking to find a new corporation, as well as those looking to enlist new players. Other activities, such as non-recruitment discussion is not permitted. No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporation's recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility.An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums.
So what gives, why are you going down the road of prohibiting scams? I understand why character and timecode scams are not allowed, due to the fact that they involve the purchasing of services from CCP, but recruitment? Really? This rule is vague, it is selectively enforced and it goes completely against the spirit of the game. This rule also doesn't stop players from scouting out corporations to infiltrate and rob blind, it doesn't stop recruiters from looking for saps to recruit and gank - it is specifically targeted towards one type of scam. So I ask, why the double standard? Remove this rule. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Jed Mosley
Bandito Industries Malicious Rage
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
So according to you, having the recruitment channel purely for recruitment = CCP banning all means of scamming?
OMG WTF CCP WAI U DO DIS LIK DIS IF U CRYED EVERITIM.
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Endeavour Starfleet
653
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Stop being a fool.
Only noobs use this channel and a scam there can literally deprive CCP of future funds.
It is a tradeoff. There has to be SOME protection of newer players due to the issues leading to difficulty getting into proper grouping that can help them advance (Not all want to go to Eve Uni)
Stop using the word "sandbox" every time you get stopped from abusing systems intended to help newer players. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2173
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Stop being a fool.
Only noobs use this channel and a scam there can literally deprive CCP of future funds.
It is a tradeoff. There has to be SOME protection of newer players due to the issues leading to difficulty getting into proper grouping that can help them advance (Not all want to go to Eve Uni)
Stop using the word "sandbox" every time you get stopped from abusing systems intended to help newer players.
"New players" don't tend to have 20b in the wallet, T3s gathering dust and 50M SP, hope that helps. The recruitment channel isn't exclusively used by new players.
"53 mil sp amarr focused, looking for mission corp in CALDARI space, 20 member minimum, US TZ, no pvp, not interested." "played this game for 7 years, have in excess of 100m sp and want to sell alliance. toon and isk so convo me if interested"
Yeah, that channel isn't exclusively used by newbs. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Kehro Urgus
139
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Goon tears I hear voices and they don't like you very much! |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
551
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm split. While I understand that protecting a channel that newbies are likely to use for recruitment makes sense, protecting people like the ones Andski described does not make sense. It's the difference between "newb" and "noob". The former deserves to be taught and welcomed to Eve. The latter deserves their ship taken away by explosion or scam. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers. US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join us. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. |
Grumpy Owly
242
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Andski wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Stop being a fool. ..... hope that helps
nope and your an arrogant idiot.
waah, waah, waah, I believe I'm entitled to everything and overturn rulings, just like all other rational systems implemented by CCP. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2173
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Andski wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Stop being a fool. ..... hope that helps nope and your an arrogant idiot. waah, waah, waah, I believe I'm entitled to everything and overturn rulings, just like all other rational systems implemented by CCP.
You are one of those who believes suicide ganking, scams and any sort of non-consensual PvP is bad for the game. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Xystance
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
261
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
This is the classic slippery slope.
No scamming in a recruitment channel for fear of losing everything. No finding out about people existing from recruitment channel for fear of losing everything. No scamming people. No can dropping in highsec for pvp. No pvp in highsec.
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Grumpy Owly
242
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Andski wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Andski wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Stop being a fool. ..... hope that helps nope and your an arrogant idiot. waah, waah, waah, I believe I'm entitled to everything and overturn rulings, just like all other rational systems implemented by CCP. You are one of those who believes suicide ganking, scams and any sort of non-consensual PvP is bad for the game.
Wrong, I beleive they are valid mechanics in the right frame IG. I do not condone the removal of them or their cessation.
PvP is good for the game. As an obvious example why would I be promoting bounty hunting?
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
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Endeavour Starfleet
653
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
I question that so called 7 year player using that channel (Assuming thats not a noob with a character bought from a friend or ebay which is against the EULA anyway) Yet I am now wondering.
Why are you needing to use that channel in the first place?
Fools trying to join Goons without going to SA first are a dime a dozen. You cant be seriously saying you are having enough trouble finding them to warrant needing free reign over that channel. |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
95
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP hates you. They hate hate hate your corp, they hate your alliance, they hate your smelly little dog, Toto too.
They want you to die in a horrible, smelly, festering, hate filled pit of hate and contempt.
Mostly they just hate you though.
Oh yea, Stuffs. Now. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
930
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
I disagree with scamming newbros, as well as disagree with blanket bans for behavior like this.
I'm pretty torn TBH, but this CCP decision is indeed on a slippery slope. It would be nice to design a "corp finder" with similar functionality to the agent finder so the channel itself could be free game again, but thats not a tiny task.
My point is, there are much better ways to ensure new players have positive first experiences with EVE than this. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2175
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ocih wrote:CCP hates you. They hate hate hate your corp, they hate your alliance, they hate your smelly little dog, Toto too.
They want you to die in a horrible, smelly, festering, hate filled pit of hate and contempt.
Mostly they just hate you though.
Oh yea, Stuffs. Now.
That 1 billion ISK you paid for a vanity alliance ticker is surely paying off.
Akirei Scytale wrote:I disagree with scamming newbros, as well as disagree with blanket bans for behavior like this.
I feel that the whole "scamming new players" thing is just something that the ~anti-griefer~ crowd likes to harp on about. What defines a "new player?" How is a new player even worth scamming?
My experience is that scams see much more ISK going the other way - I've seen newbies in my alliance scam 70M SP bittervets out of ISK and ships in their first week. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Endeavour Starfleet
653
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:I disagree with scamming newbros, as well as disagree with blanket bans for behavior like this.
I'm pretty torn TBH, but this CCP decision is indeed on a slippery slope. It would be nice to design a "corp finder" with similar functionality to the agent finder so the channel itself could be free game again, but thats not a tiny task.
My point is, there are much better ways to ensure new players have positive first experiences with EVE than this.
There are many paths to removing these restrictions.
#1 Is this http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Possibly_Practical_POS_Performance_Proposal_%28CSM%29 fully modular permissions and divisions will mean the spy and thief threat can be better managed so noobs will be in demand again instead of shunned as potential spiez.
There are other good ideas as well.
So its not slippery slope. Its a temporary band aid. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2175
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:I disagree with scamming newbros, as well as disagree with blanket bans for behavior like this.
I'm pretty torn TBH, but this CCP decision is indeed on a slippery slope. It would be nice to design a "corp finder" with similar functionality to the agent finder so the channel itself could be free game again, but thats not a tiny task.
My point is, there are much better ways to ensure new players have positive first experiences with EVE than this. There are many paths to removing these restrictions. #1 Is this http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Possibly_Practical_POS_Performance_Proposal_%28CSM%29 fully modular permissions and divisions will mean the spy and thief threat can be better managed so noobs will be in demand again instead of shunned as potential spiez. There are other good ideas as well. So its not slippery slope. Its a temporary band aid.
That doesn't even apply outside of wormholes, and really, a perfectly viable solution exists in feeder/training corps. It's also not relevant. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
95
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 03:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Andski wrote:Ocih wrote:CCP hates you. They hate hate hate your corp, they hate your alliance, they hate your smelly little dog, Toto too.
They want you to die in a horrible, smelly, festering, hate filled pit of hate and contempt.
Mostly they just hate you though.
Oh yea, Stuffs. Now. That 1 billion ISK you paid for a vanity alliance ticker is surely paying off.
It was cheaper than a Monocle. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:I disagree with scamming newbros, as well as disagree with blanket bans for behavior like this.
I'm pretty torn TBH, but this CCP decision is indeed on a slippery slope. It would be nice to design a "corp finder" with similar functionality to the agent finder so the channel itself could be free game again, but thats not a tiny task.
My point is, there are much better ways to ensure new players have positive first experiences with EVE than this. There are many paths to removing these restrictions. #1 Is this http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Possibly_Practical_POS_Performance_Proposal_%28CSM%29 fully modular permissions and divisions will mean the spy and thief threat can be better managed so noobs will be in demand again instead of shunned as potential spiez. There are other good ideas as well. So its not slippery slope. Its a temporary band aid.
How about instead of implementing that proposal they just let the game continue to be a sandbox. They don't even need to do anything to do that. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3278
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
Much more rewarding to let the fruit ripen before you reap them.
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Cyprus Black
Cowboy Diplomacy
145
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
Andski wrote:Quote:EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to the recruitment channel. This channel is intended for those players looking to find a new corporation, as well as those looking to enlist new players. Other activities, such as non-recruitment discussion is not permitted. No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporation's recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility.An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums. So what gives, why are you going down the road of prohibiting scams? I understand why character and timecode scams are not allowed, due to the fact that they involve the purchasing of services from CCP, but recruitment? Really? This rule is vague, it is selectively enforced and it goes completely against the spirit of the game. This rule also doesn't stop players from scouting out corporations to infiltrate and rob blind, it doesn't stop recruiters from looking for saps to recruit and gank - it is specifically targeted towards one type of scam. So I ask, why the double standard? Remove this rule.
Now see here, uh... Hair Face. The recruitment channel is intended for recruitment and although you Goons are notorious recruit scammers, you will have to find your own channel to scam in. Follow my EvE blog at: http://cyprusblack.blogspot.com/ |
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Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
347
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
Because the recruitment channel is an official CCP moderated channel, and as such scamming is not tolerated there. Not to mention that the recruitment channel is part of the NPE, which is sacred to CCP.
Believe it or not, CCP does not actually endorse scamming. In fact, CCP's official policy on scamming is that it is undesirable, but not against the rules:
"TenTonHammer" wrote: CCP is against scams and scam artists of this nature in-general, but so long as people abide by the EULA, funds or assets acquired through what one would term fraud and/or embezzlement in RL are within the context of the game at-large, and thus not actionable by CCP.
CCP was referring to the EIB scam here. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2180
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
Taedrin wrote:Because the recruitment channel is an official CCP moderated channel, and as such scamming is not tolerated there. Not to mention that the recruitment channel is part of the NPE, which is sacred to CCP.
Great, then restrict its access to new players. Sound solution. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2180
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:Now see here, uh... Hair Face. The recruitment channel is intended for recruitment and although you Goons are notorious recruit scammers, you will have to find your own channel to scam in.
Jita local is intended for chat. So much for that! "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1647
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Taedrin wrote:Because the recruitment channel is an official CCP moderated channel, and as such scamming is not tolerated there. Not to mention that the recruitment channel is part of the NPE, which is sacred to CCP. Believe it or not, CCP does not actually endorse scamming. In fact, CCP's official policy on scamming is that it is undesirable, but not against the rules: "TenTonHammer" wrote: CCP is against scams and scam artists of this nature in-general, but so long as people abide by the EULA, funds or assets acquired through what one would term fraud and/or embezzlement in RL are within the context of the game at-large, and thus not actionable by CCP.
CCP was referring to the EIB scam here.
This is a dumb argument. If CCP doesn't want scamming in their game all they have to do is change the EULA.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
930
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
Andski wrote:
I feel that the whole "scamming new players" thing is just something that the ~anti-griefer~ crowd likes to harp on about. What defines a "new player?" How is a new player even worth scamming?
My experience is that scams see much more ISK going the other way - I've seen newbies in my alliance scam 70M SP bittervets out of ISK and ships in their first week.
That's a valid point, but here's how I see it.
Quite a few new players get royally screwed by scams, they are by far the most vulnerable group to them. This often results in lower player retention for EVE. Making it completely illegal to scam them is just a bad idea - it breaks the very core of EVE - but giving them somewhat safer means of getting themselves started only makes EVE better for everyone by maximizing player retention.
Things like channels where scamming is a bannable offense simply aren't the way to fix this. If anything, just gently nudge newer players towards groups like EUNI or Agony, so they can get on their feet before being swept off them for the first time.
Scams should simply never be bannable unless they are only possible as a result of blatant manipulation of mechanics. I'm all for making it harder to scam fresh-faced newbros, but not making it an impossibility. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Endeavour Starfleet
655
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Andski wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:I disagree with scamming newbros, as well as disagree with blanket bans for behavior like this.
I'm pretty torn TBH, but this CCP decision is indeed on a slippery slope. It would be nice to design a "corp finder" with similar functionality to the agent finder so the channel itself could be free game again, but thats not a tiny task.
My point is, there are much better ways to ensure new players have positive first experiences with EVE than this. There are many paths to removing these restrictions. #1 Is this http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Possibly_Practical_POS_Performance_Proposal_%28CSM%29 fully modular permissions and divisions will mean the spy and thief threat can be better managed so noobs will be in demand again instead of shunned as potential spiez. There are other good ideas as well. So its not slippery slope. Its a temporary band aid. That doesn't even apply outside of wormholes, and really, a perfectly viable solution exists in feeder/training corps. It's also not relevant.
I question how long you have seriously been playing EVE if you don't consider the huge issues of corp theft and it's effect on newer players relevant.
Regardless for the time being the rule is needed. Stop whining. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2180
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:I question how long you have seriously been playing EVE if you don't consider the huge issues of corp theft and it's effect on newer players relevant.
Regardless for the time being the rule is needed. Stop whining.
Corp theft happens when incompetent CEOs and directors hand out roles willy-nilly. And why is the rule necessary? It is not. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Terazul
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
More like the recruitment channel kiiiind of loses its luster if it's constantly being spammed by scam artists instead of people trying to actually get people into their corporation. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
930
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
Terazul wrote:More like the recruitment channel kiiiind of loses its luster if it's constantly being spammed by scam artists instead of people trying to actually get people into their corporation.
As if it was ever a good place to find a corp. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
670
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
Kehro Urgus wrote:Goon tears
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDFjaIlp74A
-áThough All Men Do Despise Us |
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Esbelta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
Everyone keeps acting as if noobs need protection from scamming. What part of "no one wants to scam a noob because they don't have jack ****" don' t you douche nozzles understand? |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
930
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:31:00 -
[32] - Quote
Esbelta wrote:Everyone keeps acting as if noobs need protection from scamming. What part of" no one wants to scam a noob because they don't have jack ****" don' t you douche nozzles understand?
I'm not talking about good scams. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Grumpy Owly
243
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:32:00 -
[33] - Quote
Esbelta wrote:Everyone keeps acting as if noobs need protection from scamming. What part of" no one wants to scam a noob because they don't have jack ****" don' t you douche nozzles understand?
What part of tough ****, CCP ruled it in favourable interests of the entire playerbase don't you reprobates that "do" understand but simply argue tooth and nail to the extent you think your some kind of special snowflake deserving unmitigated rights over others because your interests naturally have to come first? Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:34:00 -
[34] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:What part of tough ****, CCP ruled it in favourable interests of the entire playerbase don't you reprobates that "do" understand but simply argue tooth and nail to the extent you think your some kind of special snowflake deserving unmitigated rights over others because your interests naturally have to come first?
I have no clue what you said there bud, try again? |
Esbelta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Esbelta wrote:Everyone keeps acting as if noobs need protection from scamming. What part of" no one wants to scam a noob because they don't have jack ****" don' t you douche nozzles understand? What part of tough ****, CCP ruled it in favourable interests of the entire playerbase don't you reprobates that "do" understand but simply argue tooth and nail to the extent you think your some kind of special snowflake deserving unmitigated rights over others because your interests naturally have to come first?
I dont. I think everyone should have equal scamming opportunities and not have scamming selectively enforced. And like I said, quit talking about protecting people. True noobs arent worth scamming and everyone else should know better. |
Grumpy Owly
243
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:38:00 -
[36] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:What part of tough ****, CCP ruled it in favourable interests of the entire playerbase don't you reprobates that "do" understand but simply argue tooth and nail to the extent you think your some kind of special snowflake deserving unmitigated rights over others because your interests naturally have to come first? I have no clue what you said there bud, try again?
TH;DU; Stop being arrogant selfish kids who believe you have better rights over the entire playerbase.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
158
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
Andski wrote:Taedrin wrote:Because the recruitment channel is an official CCP moderated channel, and as such scamming is not tolerated there. Not to mention that the recruitment channel is part of the NPE, which is sacred to CCP. Great, then restrict its access to new players. Sound solution. Just like the rookie help. Nice one :) Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2180
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:40:00 -
[38] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:TH;DU; Stop being arrogant selfish kids who believe you have better rights over the entire playerbase.
Naturally you'd be just happy if suicide ganking was suddenly made bannable, your opinion is thus irrelevant because you're another "anti-griefer" carebear. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Esbelta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:41:00 -
[39] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:La Nariz wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:What part of tough ****, CCP ruled it in favourable interests of the entire playerbase don't you reprobates that "do" understand but simply argue tooth and nail to the extent you think your some kind of special snowflake deserving unmitigated rights over others because your interests naturally have to come first? I have no clue what you said there bud, try again? TH;DU; Stop being arrogant selfish kids who believe you have better rights over the entire playerbase.
Seriously what the hell are you going on about? I know Andski used some big words and proper grammar which might've thrown you for a loop, thus leading the rest of us to believe you in fact either didnt read the OP or are in fact a mouth breathing drool factory. If you need me to explain what is meant by "selective enforcement" I'll be happy to use little words and short sentences for you. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Hurrrrrr :downsmad:
Yes because wanting to preserve the sandbox, which applies to everyone means I want "better rights." (I think you mean favortism here but I'm not sure) Everyone should have equal scamming opportunities, happy now pubbie? |
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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1184
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
Goon tears best tears.
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Grumpy Owly
243
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
Andski wrote:Naturally you'd be just happy if suicide ganking was suddenly made bannable, your opinion is thus irrelevant because you're another "anti-griefer" carebear.
We've done this question above where I think I catagorically denied this projection of yours and went further to demonstrate your lack of judgement about my charctaer due to your incorrect determination of my attitudes to PvP and the game.
But I guess in one ear out the next.
Anyhow to refresh your short memory:
Grumpy Owly wrote:Andski wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Andski wrote:
hope that helps
nope and your an arrogant idiot. waah, waah, waah, I believe I'm entitled to everything and overturn rulings, just like all other rational systems implemented by CCP. You are one of those who believes suicide ganking, scams and any sort of non-consensual PvP is bad for the game. Wrong, I beleive they are valid mechanics in the right frame IG. I do not condone the removal of them or their cessation. PvP is good for the game. As an obvious example why would I be promoting bounty hunting?
So despite my attempts to clarify things you will continue to go with your assumptions anyhow. Arrogance and idiocy, QED. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
T0RT0ISE
KRAFTSTOFF GmbH KRAFTSTOFF
37
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:48:00 -
[43] - Quote
cry less, just recruit people from that channel without discussing anything in the channel itself and you cant be touched. for a goon you are pretty bad at meta gaming this situation, or were you hoping to create some dramatic uprising about restricting easy mode scamming of noobs. its pretty obvious allowing scamming in that channel instantly makes it worthless so just be a bit more creative and stop shitposting. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:49:00 -
[44] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:
So despite my attempts to clarify things you will continue to go with your assumptions anyhow. Arrogance and idiocy, QED.
You haven't really done anything but shitpost, please though do explain yourself.
E: Guy above me, newbs do not make good marks they have nothing of value so they are not scammed. Idiots with too much isk and too little brains those are the marks. |
Grumpy Owly
243
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:56:00 -
[45] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Hurrrrrr :downsmad: Yes because wanting to preserve the sandbox, which applies to everyone means I want "better rights." (I think you mean favortism here but I'm not sure) Everyone should have equal scamming opportunities, happy now pubbie?
And yet funnily enough its my belief that the very reason CCP introduced the ruling was very much to preserve this sandbox, and not just for "scammers".
Since I believe CCP have made this decision in order to benefit the growth of the community and to afford the purposeful use of the recruitment channel for its intended purpose. I see this as largely more beneficial to "whole" of EvE rather than just pandering to the interests of scammers who obviosuly don't give two hoots about the progression of EvE overall. They are more concerned about ensuring ISK is flowing into their own wallets.
+1 to CCP. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Kelvan Hemanseh
Starwinders The Unwilling.
16
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 04:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
I'm pretty sure goons are one of the reasons why this game is interesting and hasn't stagnated to death yet. From starting huge 0.0 wars, pulling off amazing heists, causing huge market fluctuations, interdicting an entire market, etc. In case you all forget they we're one of the voices that saved the game when it nearly died because of too much focusing of space barbies. So maybe we should listen to them and ask CCP for some policy change or statement about this. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:And yet funnily enough its my belief that the very reason CCP introduced the ruling was very much to preserve this sandbox, and not just for "scammers".
Why don't you explain this to me, how does preventing people with too much isk and too little brains from being scammed increase the sandbox potential?
I can answer it for you already, it doesn't restricting actions reduces sandbox potential. The only good exception to that is botting.
Grumpy Owly wrote: Since I believe CCP have made this decision in order to benefit the growth of the community and to afford the purposeful use of the recruitment channel for its intended purpose. I see this as largely more beneficial to "whole" of EvE rather than just pandering to the interests of scammers who obviosuly don't give two hoots about the progression of EvE overall. They are more concerned about ensuring ISK is flowing into their own wallets.
+1 to CCP.
Growth would have to be an increase as in more new players. Yet as many of us have already stated new players have nothing so they aren't marks. One of the attractions to EVE is that it is a cold, dark, and harsh place. Hell most of the word of mouth advertising from EVE comes from scams. I see no growth from allowing rich morons to keep their isk by protecting them from scams. |
Sverige Pahis
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
767
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:07:00 -
[48] - Quote
Hi CCP why are your GMs telling people that scamming outside of the channel "isn't advised" either. Is this a threat? Could you clarify that thanks. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1647
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:09:00 -
[49] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:And yet funnily enough its my belief that the very reason CCP introduced the ruling was very much to preserve this sandbox, and not just for "scammers"..
You don't know that. It's more likely that they got tired of getting so many barely legible support tickets from angry pubbies.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Grumpy Owly
243
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
Kelvan Hemanseh wrote:I'm pretty sure goons are one of the reasons why this game is interesting and hasn't stagnated to death yet. From starting huge 0.0 wars, pulling off amazing heists, causing huge market fluctuations, interdicting an entire market, etc. In case you all forget they we're one of the voices that saved the game when it nearly died because of too much focusing of space barbies. So maybe we should listen to them and ask CCP for some policy change or statement about this.
And yet login statstics do demonstrate that the game has stagnated.
There is a contra argument that EvE could be a more pleasurable experience for everyone should a larger majority of the playerbase be catered for. CSM interests seem to be taking a more focussed approach to simply ensure interests are being covered for a "select" set of individuals rather than looking at things in a more philanthropic way to generate more interest for a multitude of different playstyles which could perfectly co-exist side by side and without being an exclusion to each other.
As such there is quite an amount of distaste in the community as a result of Goon meta interest as a result whose to say it isnt having a detrimental effect? The added value Goons bring IG is fine as the boogeymen, criminal element, clowns, griefers whatever your preferred label, but we need to make the distinction here between IG antics and arguing about mechanics for selfish benefit.There are plenty of opportunites available to scammers IG.
However, as it's CCP who made the ruling fair enough, I'll let them give full details for the justification for them making the change. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
|
Esbelta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:13:00 -
[51] - Quote
Quit trying to pretend like you are intelligent. You're just spewing gibberish and not really convincing anyone of anything other than the fact you most likely eat your lunch from a Snoopy lunchbox every day. |
Inkdew
Space Jumpers Bringers of Death.
18
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:13:00 -
[52] - Quote
Shutup goonie, can't steal money from little newbies? Too scared to go do something real? -_- |
Esbelta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:16:00 -
[53] - Quote
Inkdew wrote:Shutup goonie, can't steal money from little newbies? Too scared to go do something real? -_-
You know Eve is a game, right? |
Robbie Circus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:17:00 -
[54] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:
And yet login statstics do demonstrate that the game has stagnated.
change.
This is quite interesting do you have actual stats? |
Rick Maken
Secure Space Test Alliance Please Ignore
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:17:00 -
[55] - Quote
CCP is destroying the whole concept of EVE by banning scamming in recruitment.
Not that I would partake in such shenanigans. |
Inkdew
Space Jumpers Bringers of Death.
18
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
Esbelta wrote:Inkdew wrote:Shutup goonie, can't steal money from little newbies? Too scared to go do something real? -_- You know Eve is a game, right?
You do realize I was being sarcastic? I just wanted to partake in the goon bashing :)
|
Kelvan Hemanseh
Starwinders The Unwilling.
20
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:23:00 -
[57] - Quote
To those that could not read his original post I tried to fix it but some things are beyond my help.
Grumpy Owly wrote:Kelvan Hemanseh wrote:I'm pretty sure goons are one of the reasons why this game is interesting and hasn't stagnated to death yet. From starting huge 0.0 wars, pulling off amazing heists, causing huge market fluctuations, interdicting an entire market, etc. In case you all forget they we're one of the voices that saved the game when it nearly died because of too much focusing of space barbies. So maybe we should listen to them and ask CCP for some policy change or statement about this. And yet login statistics do demonstrate that the game has stagnated. There is a counter argument that EvE could be a more pleasurable experience for everyone should a larger majority of the player base be catered for. CSM interests seem to be taking a more focused approach to simply ensure interests are being covered for a "select" set of individuals rather than looking at things in a more philanthropic way to generate more interest for a multitude of different play styles which could perfectly co-exist side by side and without being an exclusion to each other. As such there is quite an amount of distaste in the community as a result of Goon meta interest as a result whose to say it isn't having a detrimental effect? The added value Goons bring in game is fine as the boogeymen, criminal element, clowns, griefers whatever your preferred label, but we need to make the distinction here between in game antics and arguing about mechanics for selfish benefit.There are plenty of opportunities available to scammers in game. However, as it's CCP who made the ruling fair enough, I'll let them give full details for the justification for making them making the change.
Okay frankly everything you said there is basically BS, it was right when this character was started that Hilmar put out his SOS call as subscriptions plummeted and the average amount of logged in users was ~19,000. After the emergency summit in which the CSM (made up of 2 goons and others) helped revive the game. Since then subscriptions have been rising and the average amount of logged in users was ~30,000-40,000.
The CSM serves as a sanity filter to CCP, its purpose is to prevent horrible abominations like last summer. They basically revived the game so I have no idea why you hate them unless space barbies were a treasured thing of yours.
Also in case you didn't notice, goons do more things than make high sec miserable for a few stupid people. Look at 0.0 yes it exists, now look at that war going on. That huge war is another big draw to the game that you aren't giving them credit for. I'll give you that they are "bad guys" in this game but you cannot have "good guys" without bad guys. They serve a necessary part of this game and right now they are trying to act as a sanity filter against something being done probably out of laziness by CCP.
I can understand what CCP is trying to do as well, they want to address the horrible onslaught of stupid people petitioning being scammed. This isn't the right way to do that though this way creates more work and makes the game less of a sandbox.
Also for ****s sake put some effort into your posts I'm tired of having to get a decoder ring out just to figure out what you're saying. |
Grumpy Owly
244
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:24:00 -
[58] - Quote
Robbie Circus wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:
And yet login statstics do demonstrate that the game has stagnated.
change.
This is quite interesting do you have actual stats?
Sure:
http://i.imgur.com/Td3ex.jpg
http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
I dont see any significant growth pattern. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1647
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:27:00 -
[59] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:And yet login statstics do demonstrate that the game has stagnated.
That has more to do with space pants and other poor decision making on CCP's part than anything we are doing. If CCP could point to an actual statistic that showed them that scamming was actually hurting the game they would change the EULA and put a stop to it. Everything else is just hot air.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:29:00 -
[60] - Quote
I can't see the second one for some reason but the first one doesn't include post-crucible. That information is way to dated to be applied to the current situation.
E: After getting that to load it shows a slight increase which further proves that you are completely wrong.
Also the one you really want, is the number of subscribed accounts, not logins. |
|
Grumpy Owly
244
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:31:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:And yet login statstics do demonstrate that the game has stagnated. That has more to do with space pants and other poor decision making on CCP's part than anything we are doing. If CCP could point to an actual statistic that showed them that scamming was actually hurting the game they would change the EULA and put a stop to it. Everything else is just hot air.
Ok fair enough so nothing to do with Goons, ok, so where is this amazing pull the Goons are demonstrating for the appeal to the game on the server graph, please point it out? Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:33:00 -
[62] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:And yet login statstics do demonstrate that the game has stagnated. That has more to do with space pants and other poor decision making on CCP's part than anything we are doing. If CCP could point to an actual statistic that showed them that scamming was actually hurting the game they would change the EULA and put a stop to it. Everything else is just hot air. Ok fair enough so nothing to do with Goons, ok, so where is this amazing pull the Goons are demonstrating for the appeal to the game on the server graph, please point it out?
Tell you what, point to the part on the graph that's the people leaving the game over scamming. Don't present data then ask questions that have no relevance to the data. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1647
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:34:00 -
[63] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:And yet login statstics do demonstrate that the game has stagnated. That has more to do with space pants and other poor decision making on CCP's part than anything we are doing. If CCP could point to an actual statistic that showed them that scamming was actually hurting the game they would change the EULA and put a stop to it. Everything else is just hot air. Ok fair enough so nothing to do with Goons, ok, so where is this amazing pull the Goons are demonstrating for the appeal to the game on the server graph, please point it out?
Umm..."nothing to do with Goons" means we don't have an effect on the server graph. I don't think you know what you're asking for.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Grumpy Owly
244
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:35:00 -
[64] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:I can't see the second one for some reason but the first one doesn't include post-crucible. That information is way to dated to be applied to the current situation. E: After getting that to load it shows a slight increase which further proves that you are completely wrong. Also the one you really want, is the number of subscribed accounts, not logins.
Sorry i dont see it, all I see from the long term graph (which is up to date) is a downard trend to a virtual flat line, there is no serious growth trend to account for and please attribute it to Goons playstyle.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:37:00 -
[65] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:And yet login statstics do demonstrate that the game has stagnated. That has more to do with space pants and other poor decision making on CCP's part than anything we are doing. If CCP could point to an actual statistic that showed them that scamming was actually hurting the game they would change the EULA and put a stop to it. Everything else is just hot air. Ok fair enough so nothing to do with Goons, ok, so where is this amazing pull the Goons are demonstrating for the appeal to the game on the server graph, please point it out?
Also your character was created way before the worst of it back in summer 2011. So you really don't have a clue how bad it actually was and couldn't possibly have a true perception of stagnation in this game. |
Grumpy Owly
244
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:37:00 -
[66] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:And yet login statstics do demonstrate that the game has stagnated. That has more to do with space pants and other poor decision making on CCP's part than anything we are doing. If CCP could point to an actual statistic that showed them that scamming was actually hurting the game they would change the EULA and put a stop to it. Everything else is just hot air. Ok fair enough so nothing to do with Goons, ok, so where is this amazing pull the Goons are demonstrating for the appeal to the game on the server graph, please point it out? Tell you what, point to the part on the graph that's the people leaving the game over scamming. Don't present data then ask questions that have no relevance to the data.
Sorry if someone is making the claim that the Goons playstyle is an improvement to server numbers they have to prove it.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:38:00 -
[67] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:La Nariz wrote:I can't see the second one for some reason but the first one doesn't include post-crucible. That information is way to dated to be applied to the current situation. E: After getting that to load it shows a slight increase which further proves that you are completely wrong. Also the one you really want, is the number of subscribed accounts, not logins. Sorry i dont see it, all I see from the long term graph (which is up to date) is a downard trend to a virtual flat line, there is no serious growth trend to account for and please attribute it to Goons playstyle.
Where is this graph now, link it for me? It certainly is not one of the two you linked, the first one is not even current and the server login graphs show a very slight increase. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:42:00 -
[68] - Quote
I have some proof that scamming is a draw to the game, take a look at this article from the New York Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/15/business/15views.html
Right there word of mouth advertising for the game and a draw to it.
A good quote from that article: "But the word from Reykjavik isnGÇÖt likely to comfort EbankGÇÖs depositors. EveGÇÖs creators at CCP GÇö which employs its own economist and philosopher GÇö take a laissez-faire approach, leaving most such matters to the gameGÇÖs users to sort out."
Grumpy Owly wrote:Sorry if someone is making the claim that the Goons playstyle is an improvement to server numbers they have to prove it.
Funny by that logic you should have to prove all of your points which you haven't and can't. I don't have access to CCP's internal server statistics or I would bother with showing you the raw data. I sure as hell am not going to use out dated or off subject data to flail around trying to prove my point while frothing at the mouth in an angry seizure. |
Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
173
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:50:00 -
[69] - Quote
This is not in any way new. Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter |
None ofthe Above
78
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:50:00 -
[70] - Quote
Andski wrote:Quote:EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to the recruitment channel. This channel is intended for those players looking to find a new corporation, as well as those looking to enlist new players. Other activities, such as non-recruitment discussion is not permitted. No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporation's recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility.An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums. So what gives, why are you going down the road of prohibiting scams? I understand why character and timecode scams are not allowed, due to the fact that they involve the purchasing of services from CCP, but recruitment? Really? This rule is vague, it is selectively enforced and it goes completely against the spirit of the game. This rule also doesn't stop players from scouting out corporations to infiltrate and rob blind, it doesn't stop recruiters from looking for saps to recruit and gank - it is specifically targeted towards one type of scam. So I ask, why the double standard? Remove this rule.
Heh, you sure wound folks up.
He's trolling you silly people. Its not like he just discovered this today. It's been well known, and I think Andski and I may have even bs'ed about it before.
One of the few rules CCP has. I think it can probably stay just fine and the Goonskis will get over it someday.
Even None ofthe Above supports Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7! |
|
Grumpy Owly
244
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:51:00 -
[71] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:I have some proof that scamming is a draw to the game, take a look at this article from the New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/15/business/15views.htmlRight there word of mouth advertising for the game and a draw to it. A good quote from that article: "But the word from Reykjavik isnGÇÖt likely to comfort EbankGÇÖs depositors. EveGÇÖs creators at CCP GÇö which employs its own economist and philosopher GÇö take a laissez-faire approach, leaving most such matters to the gameGÇÖs users to sort out." Grumpy Owly wrote:Sorry if someone is making the claim that the Goons playstyle is an improvement to server numbers they have to prove it. Funny by that logic you should have to prove all of your points which you haven't and can't. I don't have access to CCP's internal server statistics or I would bother with showing you the raw data. I sure as hell am not going to use out dated or off subject data to flail around trying to prove my point while frothing at the mouth in an angry seizure.
So 1 article amongst the 100's of them about EvE in various forms of marketing material substantiates the whole argument.
I placed them as a contra argument to the claims being projected, mainly as we have seen significant evidence in the forums of the differences in opinion represented to the Goons, not as an absolute factual representation.
But I don't want to explore the Goon hate phenomina beyond what is needed to make a point, as I don't have or want to see any motivations for seeing Goons not being a relevant part of EvE. But I'm not going to simply swallow the BS either. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2183
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:52:00 -
[72] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:This is not in any way new.
et tu?
it's old news, but it's about trying to get some light on this again "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 05:57:00 -
[73] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote: I placed them as a contra argument to the claims being projected, mainly as we have seen significant evidence in the forums of the differences in opinion represented to the Goons, not as a factual representation.
But I don't want to explore the Goon hate phenomina beyond what is needed to make a point, as I don't have or want to see any motivations for seeing Goons not being a relevant part of EvE. But I'm not going to simply swallow the BS either.
You do realize that the forum population is not a representative sample of the actual eve population right?
Your argument is basically one big bandwagon fallacy. Everyone on the forums whines about goons scamming them therefore scams should be removed.
You aren't making a point and I'm not feeding you any BS. The only thing you've done this entire thread is link an out of date graph and link a graph that's data had nothing to do with the point you were trying to make.
So please make a point.
|
Grumpy Owly
244
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:03:00 -
[74] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote: I placed them as a contra argument to the claims being projected, mainly as we have seen significant evidence in the forums of the differences in opinion represented to the Goons, not as a factual representation.
But I don't want to explore the Goon hate phenomina beyond what is needed to make a point, as I don't have or want to see any motivations for seeing Goons not being a relevant part of EvE. But I'm not going to simply swallow the BS either.
You do realize that the forum population is not a representative sample of the actual eve population right? Your argument is basically one big bandwagon fallacy. Everyone on the forums whines about goons scamming them therefore scams should be removed. You aren't making a point and I'm not feeding you any BS. The only thing you've done this entire thread is link an out of date graph and link a graph that's data had nothing to do with the point you were trying to make. So please make a point.
Everyone off the forums, they hold no relevance or value, Goons have said so, pointless being here, nothing to see.
I have made points, don't expect you to like them and certainly would expect you to oppose them as a Goon. Not surprised you would simply try to deny the points.
TL;DR: IYO, bored now. I'll wait for CCP's comment.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:04:00 -
[75] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Everyone off the forums, they hold no relevance or value, Goons have said so, pointless being here, nothing to see. I have made points, don't expect you to like them and certainly would expect you to oppose them as a Goon. Not surprised you would simply try to deny the points. TL;DR: IYO, bored now. I'll wait for CCP's comment.
These points, where are they? |
Valentyn3
49
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:06:00 -
[76] - Quote
"A fool and his money are easily separated."
Every time someone comes here and QQ's about getting recruitment scammed I have to listen to them ***** about how they lost billions as a "sign up deposit" or something. How one gets that much money and sp's and doesn't think to research a corp before joining, especially if they ask for buttloads of cash, is beyond me.
While I think these stories are hilarious, I do think that the channels should be used for what they are designed for. Using the recruit channel to scam people with no intention accepting them is really no different than WTB/WTS spamming the channel. EvE why u no obey Newtonian Physics? |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:10:00 -
[77] - Quote
Valentyn3 wrote:While I think these stories are hilarious, I do think that the channels should be used for what they are designed for. Using the recruit channel to scam people with no intention accepting them is really no different than WTB/WTS spamming the channel.
That is a different type of advertisement and those two are not at all alike but I can agree with not letting the channel turn into Jita local. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
930
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:18:00 -
[78] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote: Sorry i dont see it, all I see from the long term graph (which is up to date) is a downard trend to a virtual flat line, there is no serious growth trend to account for and please attribute it to Goons playstyle.
I hope you're aware that time progresses from right to left on those graphs.
Try hovering your mouse over one. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Grumpy Owly
244
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:20:00 -
[79] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Valentyn3 wrote:While I think these stories are hilarious, I do think that the channels should be used for what they are designed for. Using the recruit channel to scam people with no intention accepting them is really no different than WTB/WTS spamming the channel. That is a different type of advertisement and those two are not at all alike but I can agree with not letting the channel turn into Jita local.
I see so when La Nairz says it it's a point. And you say your not in denial about my points:
Grumpy Owly wrote:Since I believe CCP have made this decision in order to benefit the growth of the community and to afford the purposeful use of the recruitment channel for its intended purpose.
Hypocrit. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
930
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:21:00 -
[80] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Hypocrite.
FTFY A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
|
Grumpy Owly
244
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:29:00 -
[81] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote: Sorry i dont see it, all I see from the long term graph (which is up to date) is a downard trend to a virtual flat line, there is no serious growth trend to account for and please attribute it to Goons playstyle.
I hope you're aware that time progresses from right to left on those graphs. Try hovering your mouse over one. They were kind enough to label datapoints, even if they didn't have the foresight to properly label their axes.
So look at the last years figures, it starts in the 40k+ and stagnates down to the mid high 35k+.
Would you say that is a growth pattern?
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:31:00 -
[82] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:La Nariz wrote:Valentyn3 wrote:While I think these stories are hilarious, I do think that the channels should be used for what they are designed for. Using the recruit channel to scam people with no intention accepting them is really no different than WTB/WTS spamming the channel. That is a different type of advertisement and those two are not at all alike but I can agree with not letting the channel turn into Jita local. I see so when La Nairz says it it's a point. And you say your not in denial about my points: Grumpy Owly wrote:Since I believe CCP have made this decision in order to benefit the growth of the community and to afford the purposeful use of the recruitment channel for its intended purpose. Hypocrit.
I have no idea what you are trying to say. Are you calling yourself a hippocrite? All you said in your quote is that in your opinion CCP is right. You didn't make any points. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
930
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:32:00 -
[83] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote: Sorry i dont see it, all I see from the long term graph (which is up to date) is a downard trend to a virtual flat line, there is no serious growth trend to account for and please attribute it to Goons playstyle.
I hope you're aware that time progresses from right to left on those graphs. Try hovering your mouse over one. They were kind enough to label datapoints, even if they didn't have the foresight to properly label their axes. So look at the last years figures, it starts in the 40k+ and stagnates down to the mid high 35k+. Would you say that is a growth pattern?
Read them again.
Everyone knows Incarna bombed. Subs are climbing now. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Grumpy Owly
244
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:33:00 -
[84] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:
Hypocrite.
FTFY
have to excuse my clumsy fingers. thanks however.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
None ofthe Above
78
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:34:00 -
[85] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:
Heh, you sure wound folks up.
He's trolling you silly people. Its not like he just discovered this today. It's been well known, and I think Andski and I may have even bs'ed about it before.
One of the few rules CCP has. I think it can probably stay just fine and the Goonskis will get over it someday.
Andski has ranted at me quite earnestly in the "CSM7 Town Hall" chat channel in game.
Apparently no troll, those are genu-wine goon tears of rage folks.
My apologies, my dear Andski
Even None ofthe Above supports Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7! |
Grumpy Owly
244
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:35:00 -
[86] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote: Sorry i dont see it, all I see from the long term graph (which is up to date) is a downard trend to a virtual flat line, there is no serious growth trend to account for and please attribute it to Goons playstyle.
I hope you're aware that time progresses from right to left on those graphs. Try hovering your mouse over one. They were kind enough to label datapoints, even if they didn't have the foresight to properly label their axes. So look at the last years figures, it starts in the 40k+ and stagnates down to the mid high 35k+. Would you say that is a growth pattern? Read them again. Everyone knows Incarna bombed. Subs are climbing now.
Kind of missing the point, I know about the incarna bomb, I know about the crucible enthusiasm. I don't see any real growth to shout about, and I certainly dont see the issues attributable to Goons playstyle which is what the discussion was about. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
54
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:37:00 -
[87] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote: Read them again.
Everyone knows Incarna bombed. Subs are climbing now.
Incarna doesn't explain the stagnation since late 2009.
Think it's way too early to call whether the current growth is the start of an Apocrypha-like development (which lifted subscriptions from the level they were starting to stabilize at in 2008 to the current one) or just a temporary rise as we saw with Incursion. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
930
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:40:00 -
[88] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Kind of missing the point, I know about the incarna bomb, I know about the crucible enthusiasm, though that seems to have simply peaked and died from the graph. I don't see any growth to shout about, and I certainly dont see the issues attributable to Goons playstyle which is what the discussion was about.
You can't really track that sort of data without new player questionnaires over a multi-year period. If thats the point you were trying to make, linking to overall subscription graphs was honestly either very stupid or an attempt at misdirection.
I can tell you this however - Little Bees is why I came back to EVE after quitting in like 2006, and all of my RL friends ho played came back due to similar propaganda videos.
No one does propaganda like the CFC and historically, the Goons specifically. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
92
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:44:00 -
[89] - Quote
Xystance wrote:This is the classic slippery slope.
The inside of your hollow head is a slippery slope.
The relevant metaphor would be bad money drives out good. If scamming was allowed in the recruitment channel, then the recruitment channel would soon become only scams, and as a result it would be useless to everyone. |
Grumpy Owly
244
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:51:00 -
[90] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:
Kind of missing the point, I know about the incarna bomb, I know about the crucible enthusiasm, though that seems to have simply peaked and died from the graph. I don't see any growth to shout about, and I certainly dont see the issues attributable to Goons playstyle which is what the discussion was about.
You can't really track that sort of data without new player questionnaires over a multi-year period. If thats the point you were trying to make, linking to overall subscription graphs was honestly either very stupid or an attempt at misdirection. I can tell you this however - Little Bees is why I came back to EVE after quitting in like 2006, and all of my RL friends ho played came back due to similar propaganda videos. No one does propaganda like the CFC and historically, the Goons specifically.
Someone asked to see a graph of the details, I obliged, as I had explained that game interest has stagnated. Considering that numbers are vitually the same over the entire year I would say that is an accurate assessment. And not the hopefull growth patterns we might like to see for the betterment of EvE. Certainly no growth patterns as a supposed benefit from scamming.
Happy that you are and your friends are more enthused in the game however. And i do hope EvE is on a U turn and will turn into something more substantial in terms of a player base. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2183
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:52:00 -
[91] - Quote
Anya Ohaya wrote:Xystance wrote:This is the classic slippery slope.
The inside of your hollow head is a slippery slope. The relevant metaphor would be bad money drives out good. If scamming was allowed in the recruitment channel, then the recruitment channel would soon become only scams, and as a result it would be useless to everyone.
scamming had been allowed in the recruitment channel for years, fyi "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Grumpy Owly
244
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:57:00 -
[92] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:As for "you really want to look at subscribed accounts, not logged in characters" - nope, that's what CCP wants to look at, not waht I want to look at. I care how many other characters are in EVE that I can interact with, not how much money ends up in CCP's coffers.
I do take your point that entertainment and fun in EvE is most relevant to the argument. And i would say that the "metric" of in game activity rather than accounts is a more accurate reflection of the level of fun. As a result this value fuels the other nice value of player accounts that we would also like to see improve. As such they are both relevant as accounts pay for game development.
I'd like to see both grow, but will agree that the idea we do play the game is for the fun first and foremost. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Valei Khurelem
379
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:59:00 -
[93] - Quote
Kehro Urgus wrote:Goon tears
The sweetest tears of all :P
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
159
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 07:17:00 -
[94] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:Kehro Urgus wrote:Goon tears The sweetest tears of all :P There's a theory that one of our leading leaders may run off something similar to goon tears.
Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1648
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 07:26:00 -
[95] - Quote
Anya Ohaya wrote:Xystance wrote:This is the classic slippery slope.
The inside of your hollow head is a slippery slope. The relevant metaphor would be bad money drives out good. If scamming was allowed in the recruitment channel, then the recruitment channel would soon become only scams, and as a result it would be useless to everyone.
There was no rule posted about scamming in the recruitment channel until a couple months ago.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Parthonax
11
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 07:34:00 -
[96] - Quote
Andski wrote:Quote:EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to the recruitment channel. This channel is intended for those players looking to find a new corporation, as well as those looking to enlist new players. Other activities, such as non-recruitment discussion is not permitted. No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporation's recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility.An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums. So what gives, why are you going down the road of prohibiting scams? I understand why character and timecode scams are not allowed, due to the fact that they involve the purchasing of services from CCP, but recruitment? Really? This rule is vague, it is selectively enforced and it goes completely against the spirit of the game. This rule also doesn't stop players from scouting out corporations to infiltrate and rob blind, it doesn't stop recruiters from looking for saps to recruit and gank - it is specifically targeted towards one type of scam. So I ask, why the double standard? Remove this rule.
Oh dear oh dear You had a temporary ban from that scan a few weeks back didn't you and now feels CCP violated your ego
I hate to burts your bubble but even a sandbox has and need rules, and we all need to stick to those few simple rules even white trash goons
You broke one of those rules by using the recruiting channel with the sole purpose of scamming someone Doesn't matter if the victim was a 2 week old player or a 3 year old veteran ( his own stupidity for falling for a scam like that) you people would even scam a 2 week old newplayer if you had the chance just because you can and have absolute no sense of fair play and have this notion that you are untouchable And if you really expect that CCP is going to make exceptions for the goons alone you are wrong
Thank God Goons have one braincell more than a dog or they would hump each other legs so this is permanence |
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
289
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 07:36:00 -
[97] - Quote
Doing something against recruitment scams is a good idea. I have never fallen for one, but they serve only to benefit players we don't really need in EVE while driving many newer and less experienced players away.
So it is not about destroying the sandbox, but rather against those who do nothing but pissing into everyones sand.
tl;dr
u mad goon?` |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1648
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 07:38:00 -
[98] - Quote
Deviana Sevidon wrote:Doing something against recruitment scams is a good idea. I have never fallen for one, but they serve only to benefit players we don't really need in EVE while driving many newer and less experienced players away. So it is not about destroying the sandbox, but rather against those who do nothing but pissing into everyones sand. tl;dr u mad goon?`
And who are you to decide which kinds of players we need in Eve? Also, you have zero proof that scamming is driving anybody away from the game. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2184
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 07:45:00 -
[99] - Quote
Parthonax wrote:Oh dear oh dear You had a temporary ban from that scan a few weeks back didn't you and now feels CCP violated your ego disagreeing with a rule doesn't mean I got banned, oops
Parthonax wrote:I hate to burts your bubble but even a sandbox has and need rules, and we all need to stick to those few simple rules even white trash goons "white trash goons"
sorry pubbienax, get out of my thread
Parthonax wrote:You broke one of those rules by using the recruiting channel with the sole purpose of scamming someone Doesn't matter if the victim was a 2 week old player or a 3 year old veteran ( his own stupidity for falling for a scam like that) you people would even scam a 2 week old newplayer if you had the chance just because you can and have absolute no sense of fair play and have this notion that you are untouchable And if you really expect that CCP is going to make exceptions for the goons alone you are wrong
Thank God Goons have one braincell more than a dog or they would hump each other legs
abloo
bloo
bloo "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
608
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 09:04:00 -
[100] - Quote
Kehro Urgus wrote:Goon tears best tears... |
|
Jace Errata
Lawlz Brawlz
104
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 09:55:00 -
[101] - Quote
La Nariz wrote: Everyone on the forums whines about goons scamming them therefore Goons should be removed.
I'll support this. Let's...just assume there's some kind of signature here, 'k? ... ... OH WAIT. Jace Errata on Twitter |
|
GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
93
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 10:17:00 -
[102] - Quote
I was directed to this thread shortly after I updated the current MotD of the Recruitment Channel a few minutes ago.
To be succinct: 1. Scamming is not forbidden in EVE unless they are facilitated through bugs, exploits and the like. Likewise, if they are conducted in such a manner as to violate the ToS or EULA they will be stopped. 2. The onus of responsibility was always on the shoulders of both parties involved in recruitment. It was stated so in the MotD even, although it did not receive much attention. If the recruit or recruiter got scammed or betrayed in any way, it would be their responsibility for having entered into the deal. 3. For the simple purpose of keeping the channel somewhat usable, posting scams into it was considered off topic and therefore forbidden. Updating the MotD to emphasize this then spun into the current situation, which should now be (hopefully) clarified. Senior Game Master | EVE Online Customer Support Team | Info Group | CCP Games
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
|
testobjekt
Creative Accounting Institute
77
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 10:37:00 -
[103] - Quote
GM Spiral wrote:I was directed to this thread shortly after I updated the current MotD of the Recruitment Channel a few minutes ago.
To be succinct: 1. Scamming is not forbidden in EVE unless they are facilitated through bugs, exploits and the like. Likewise, if they are conducted in such a manner as to violate the ToS or EULA they will be stopped. 2. The onus of responsibility was always on the shoulders of both parties involved in recruitment. It was stated so in the MotD even, although it did not receive much attention. If the recruit or recruiter got scammed or betrayed in any way, it would be their responsibility for having entered into the deal. 3. For the simple purpose of keeping the channel somewhat usable, posting scams into it was considered off topic and therefore forbidden. Updating the MotD to emphasize this then spun into the current situation, which should now be (hopefully) clarified.
ALL HAIL GM Spiral! you sir are a ******* hero of the sandbox! Please send my regards to GMs Haggris and Syndemic.
To protect new players against scams, i would like for CCP to implement a giant red warning to be mailed to new accounts reading: "TRUST NOONE" |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2184
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 10:39:00 -
[104] - Quote
testobjekt wrote:To protect new players against scams, i would like for CCP to implement a giant red warning to be mailed to new accounts reading: "TRUST NOONE, especially goons"
fyp (I don't trust goons myself HEH) (except the mittani, the most trustworthy man in eve) "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2184
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 10:43:00 -
[105] - Quote
GM Spiral wrote:I was directed to this thread shortly after I updated the current MotD of the Recruitment Channel a few minutes ago.
To be succinct: 1. Scamming is not forbidden in EVE unless they are facilitated through bugs, exploits and the like. Likewise, if they are conducted in such a manner as to violate the ToS or EULA they will be stopped. 2. The onus of responsibility was always on the shoulders of both parties involved in recruitment. It was stated so in the MotD even, although it did not receive much attention. If the recruit or recruiter got scammed or betrayed in any way, it would be their responsibility for having entered into the deal. 3. For the simple purpose of keeping the channel somewhat usable, posting scams into it was considered off topic and therefore forbidden. Updating the MotD to emphasize this then spun into the current situation, which should now be (hopefully) clarified.
Thank you for clarifying the situation, friend! I'll buy you a beer when I go to the post-Jove expansion Fanfest. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 10:47:00 -
[106] - Quote
Andski wrote:
scamming had been allowed in the recruitment channel for years, fyi
So what? Lots of things used to be allowed and are now not allowed. Anyone else remember the lofty scam?
I personally love the Goonswarm recruitment scam, it never gets old. I also believe that Goonswarm will still get lots of successful recruitment scam victims.
Recruitment is a CCP-made channel, not player made. So just like the Rookie Help and Help channels, CCP can setup special rules in these channels if they so wish.
It's like you can't can bait in rookie starter systems but you are allowed to can flip in any other system. The sandbox is not broken by this and the sky is not falling.
The way I read the new rules and the GM response is that Goonswarm can post away in Recruitment as it is not a scam yet. It only turns into a scam once the people convo a Goonswarm member and then they are on their own as they have been warned.
Thumbs up from me! |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2185
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 10:58:00 -
[107] - Quote
Vaal Erit wrote:Andski wrote:
scamming had been allowed in the recruitment channel for years, fyi
So what? Lots of things used to be allowed and are now not allowed. Anyone else remember the lofty scam? I personally love the Goonswarm recruitment scam, it never gets old. I also believe that Goonswarm will still get lots of successful recruitment scam victims. Recruitment is a CCP-made channel, not player made. So just like the Rookie Help and Help channels, CCP can setup special rules in these channels if they so wish. It's like you can't can bait in rookie starter systems but you are allowed to can flip in any other system. The sandbox is not broken by this and the sky is not falling.
GM Spiral clarified the channel policies. I personally agree with the "don't advertise in the channel" rule - people trying to sell their 1.2b ISK PLEX in the channel would not allow us to find potential recruits! "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries Bloodbound.
75
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 12:32:00 -
[108] - Quote
GM Spiral wrote:I was directed to this thread shortly after I updated the current MotD of the Recruitment Channel a few minutes ago.
To be succinct: 1. Scamming is not forbidden in EVE unless they are facilitated through bugs, exploits and the like. Likewise, if they are conducted in such a manner as to violate the ToS or EULA they will be stopped. 2. The onus of responsibility was always on the shoulders of both parties involved in recruitment. It was stated so in the MotD even, although it did not receive much attention. If the recruit or recruiter got scammed or betrayed in any way, it would be their responsibility for having entered into the deal. 3. For the simple purpose of keeping the channel somewhat usable, posting scams into it was considered off topic and therefore forbidden. Updating the MotD to emphasize this then spun into the current situation, which should now be (hopefully) clarified.
Nope, you didn't clarify that at all.
Can you be scammed as part of the recruitment process while using the Recruitment Channel. Yes or No? I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
testobjekt
Creative Accounting Institute
80
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 12:48:00 -
[109] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:GM Spiral wrote:I was directed to this thread shortly after I updated the current MotD of the Recruitment Channel a few minutes ago.
To be succinct: 1. Scamming is not forbidden in EVE unless they are facilitated through bugs, exploits and the like. Likewise, if they are conducted in such a manner as to violate the ToS or EULA they will be stopped. 2. The onus of responsibility was always on the shoulders of both parties involved in recruitment. It was stated so in the MotD even, although it did not receive much attention. If the recruit or recruiter got scammed or betrayed in any way, it would be their responsibility for having entered into the deal. 3. For the simple purpose of keeping the channel somewhat usable, posting scams into it was considered off topic and therefore forbidden. Updating the MotD to emphasize this then spun into the current situation, which should now be (hopefully) clarified. Nope, you didn't clarify that at all. Can you be scammed as part of the recruitment process while using the Recruitment Channel. Yes or No?
You can be scammed.
But people are not allowed to post anything outside of legitimate recruitment advertises in the channel, which means if a Goon writes "Join Goon NOW! Convo me for details" he can get punished for that, just like someone writing "goons stink" or "WTS 10 Hulks only direct trade" as its all off topic |
Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries Bloodbound.
75
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 12:56:00 -
[110] - Quote
testobjekt wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:GM Spiral wrote:I was directed to this thread shortly after I updated the current MotD of the Recruitment Channel a few minutes ago.
To be succinct: 1. Scamming is not forbidden in EVE unless they are facilitated through bugs, exploits and the like. Likewise, if they are conducted in such a manner as to violate the ToS or EULA they will be stopped. 2. The onus of responsibility was always on the shoulders of both parties involved in recruitment. It was stated so in the MotD even, although it did not receive much attention. If the recruit or recruiter got scammed or betrayed in any way, it would be their responsibility for having entered into the deal. 3. For the simple purpose of keeping the channel somewhat usable, posting scams into it was considered off topic and therefore forbidden. Updating the MotD to emphasize this then spun into the current situation, which should now be (hopefully) clarified. Nope, you didn't clarify that at all. Can you be scammed as part of the recruitment process while using the Recruitment Channel. Yes or No? You can be scammed. But people are not allowed to post anything outside of legitimate recruitment advertises in the channel, which means if a Goon writes "Join Goon NOW! Convo me for details" he can get punished for that, just like someone writing "goons stink" or "WTS 10 Hulks only direct trade" as its all off topic
Nope, still doesn't make sence.
You cannot post anything but legitimate post in channel, i.e. no scams, but at the same time you can be scammed.
It's got to be one or the other. Want a GM responce to this. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
|
Tore Vest
238
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:03:00 -
[111] - Quote
Im a little torn here... I hate scam.... but.... ppl that want to join goons getting scamed .... I have no problem with that A real highsec carebear. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2194
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:04:00 -
[112] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:Im a little torn here... I hate scam.... but.... ppl that want to join goons getting scamed .... I have no problem with that
You're aware that a lot of people in your new alliance are scammers, right? Especially the ISRAD guys - goons never change~ "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Parthonax
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:07:00 -
[113] - Quote
Andski wrote: With your bitterness towards members of my alliance, don't you believe that anybody wishing to join us, especially one willing to put down ISK for the privilege, deserves to be scammed?
Regarding new players, they are simply not worth scamming. As a general rule, we just don't bother with anybody less than 6 months old - they are unlikely to have the ISK or assets to make the process of social engineering worthwhile.
anyway,
abloo
bloo
bloo
m!m
goon tears the best tears If you really think that you and your alliance can stand above the rules and therefore have a cart blanc to harras and grief anyone you like you are wrong There some good people in your alliance aswell but in general you goons just act like spoiled little brats who cry murder if the rules or game mechanics work against them and you get caught Like i said before even a sandbox need rules end of the discussion you broke the rules you pay the penalty so this is permanence |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2194
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:11:00 -
[114] - Quote
Parthonax wrote:m!m
goon tears the best tears If you really think that you and your alliance can stand above the rules and therefore have a cart blanc to harras and grief anyone you like you are wrong There some good people in your alliance aswell but in general you goons just act like spoiled little brats who cry murder if the rules or game mechanics work against them and you get caught Like i said before even a sandbox need rules end of the discussion you broke the rules you pay the penalty
ugh forum alts "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Ptraci
StoneWall Metals Productions Bloodbound.
340
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:14:00 -
[115] - Quote
"A fool and his money are soon parted"
It's not CCP's fault, nor is it the fault of the rest of the EVE community, that the above statement holds true. That is just human nature. Rather than try to make a world that encourages foolishness by artificially removing the consequences of acting without thinking, how about leaving things the way they are. If you are stupid enough to fall for a scam then you did not deserve to have that ISK anyway. If you rage-quit because of this then the EVE community will be -1 stupid player and will benefit as a whole.
Think of it as a sort of Darwinistic mechanism where fools tend to weed themselves out over time. If you remove that mechanism then we will simply accumulate more fools who will require more rules, more special treatment and more pampering. This is the road to Hello Kitty Online, where nothing matters because the Good Nanny CCP will always fix things anyway. |
|
GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
110
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:25:00 -
[116] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:Nope, still doesn't make sence.
You cannot post anything but legitimate post in channel, i.e. no scams, but at the same time you can be scammed.
It's got to be one or the other. Want a GM responce to this.
You are always responsible for the outcome of any deal you enter into yourself in EVE Online, Customer Support can not protect you from your own choices.
Posting scams in the Recruitment Channel is forbidden in the same way that posting off topic there is forbidden. It is a measure of moderation of the channel, being a member of the channel does not carry with it any implied protection from such scams any more than being a member of the Help channel does. Senior Game Master | EVE Online Customer Support Team | Info Group | CCP Games
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
|
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1345
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:32:00 -
[117] - Quote
Andski ..
well played. |
Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries Bloodbound.
77
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:32:00 -
[118] - Quote
GM Spiral wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:Nope, still doesn't make sence.
You cannot post anything but legitimate post in channel, i.e. no scams, but at the same time you can be scammed.
It's got to be one or the other. Want a GM responce to this. You are always responsible for the outcome of any deal you enter into yourself in EVE Online, Customer Support can not protect you from your own choices. Posting scams in the Recruitment Channel is forbidden in the same way that posting off topic there is forbidden. It is a measure of moderation of the channel, being a member of the channel does not carry with it any implied protection from such scams any more than being a member of the Help channel does.
So the practical outcome will be that if you do get scamed, then tough luck and you don't get your stuff back, but at least the scammers themselves will be punished. Do I have that right? I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
609
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:33:00 -
[119] - Quote
testobjekt wrote:GM Spiral wrote:I was directed to this thread shortly after I updated the current MotD of the Recruitment Channel a few minutes ago.
To be succinct: 1. Scamming is not forbidden in EVE unless they are facilitated through bugs, exploits and the like. Likewise, if they are conducted in such a manner as to violate the ToS or EULA they will be stopped. 2. The onus of responsibility was always on the shoulders of both parties involved in recruitment. It was stated so in the MotD even, although it did not receive much attention. If the recruit or recruiter got scammed or betrayed in any way, it would be their responsibility for having entered into the deal. 3. For the simple purpose of keeping the channel somewhat usable, posting scams into it was considered off topic and therefore forbidden. Updating the MotD to emphasize this then spun into the current situation, which should now be (hopefully) clarified. ALL HAIL GM Spiral! you sir are a ******* hero of the sandbox! Please send my regards to GMs Haggris and Syndemic. To protect new players against scams, i would like for CCP to implement a giant red warning to be mailed to new accounts reading: "TRUST NOONE" LOL it's only for that channel like anyone uses it |
Triskian
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:36:00 -
[120] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:GM Spiral wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:Nope, still doesn't make sence.
You cannot post anything but legitimate post in channel, i.e. no scams, but at the same time you can be scammed.
It's got to be one or the other. Want a GM responce to this. You are always responsible for the outcome of any deal you enter into yourself in EVE Online, Customer Support can not protect you from your own choices. Posting scams in the Recruitment Channel is forbidden in the same way that posting off topic there is forbidden. It is a measure of moderation of the channel, being a member of the channel does not carry with it any implied protection from such scams any more than being a member of the Help channel does. So the practical outcome will be that if you do get scamed, then tough luck and you don't get your stuff back, but at least the scammers themselves will be punished. Do I have that right?
You have really bad reading comprehension skills. I don't see how he could've made it any more clear.
P.S. Your posting stinks. |
|
Parthonax
14
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:38:00 -
[121] - Quote
Andski wrote:testobjekt wrote:To protect new players against scams, i would like for CCP to implement a giant red warning to be mailed to new accounts reading: "TRUST NOONE, especially goons" fyp (I don't trust goons myself HEH) (except the mittani, the biggest egocentric liar in eve) corrected that for you so this is permanence |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2196
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:39:00 -
[122] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:So the practical outcome will be that if you do get scamed, then tough luck and you don't get your stuff back, but at least the scammers themselves will be punished. Do I have that right?
Correct, they'll be punished with the burden of having your ISK/assets. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Killiana Lett
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:39:00 -
[123] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:GM Spiral wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:Nope, still doesn't make sence.
You cannot post anything but legitimate post in channel, i.e. no scams, but at the same time you can be scammed.
It's got to be one or the other. Want a GM responce to this. You are always responsible for the outcome of any deal you enter into yourself in EVE Online, Customer Support can not protect you from your own choices. Posting scams in the Recruitment Channel is forbidden in the same way that posting off topic there is forbidden. It is a measure of moderation of the channel, being a member of the channel does not carry with it any implied protection from such scams any more than being a member of the Help channel does. So the practical outcome will be that if you do get scamed, then tough luck and you don't get your stuff back, but at least the scammers themselves will be punished. Do I have that right?
No, no you do not. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1193
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:40:00 -
[124] - Quote
Here's some cheese to go with all the whine in this thread.
How hilarious.
Bucket loads of testy goonie tears.
CCP needs to throw some glue on this thread.
There's just way too much 'waaa waaa waaa' to mop up.
|
Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries Bloodbound.
77
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:40:00 -
[125] - Quote
Triskian wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:GM Spiral wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:Nope, still doesn't make sence.
You cannot post anything but legitimate post in channel, i.e. no scams, but at the same time you can be scammed.
It's got to be one or the other. Want a GM responce to this. You are always responsible for the outcome of any deal you enter into yourself in EVE Online, Customer Support can not protect you from your own choices. Posting scams in the Recruitment Channel is forbidden in the same way that posting off topic there is forbidden. It is a measure of moderation of the channel, being a member of the channel does not carry with it any implied protection from such scams any more than being a member of the Help channel does. So the practical outcome will be that if you do get scamed, then tough luck and you don't get your stuff back, but at least the scammers themselves will be punished. Do I have that right? You have really bad reading comprehension skills. I don't see how he could've made it any more clear. P.S. Your posting stinks.
Your a goon. Goons have trouble with subtleties. Enough said. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Killiana Lett
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:42:00 -
[126] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Your a goon. Goons have trouble with subtleties. Enough said.
You're*
Also, he was right about your reading comprehension skills and bad posting. |
Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries Bloodbound.
77
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:45:00 -
[127] - Quote
Killiana Lett wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:
Your a goon. Goons have trouble with subtleties. Enough said.
You're* Also, he was right about your reading comprehension skills and bad posting.
You're quite correct about you're. Still a goon though. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2196
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:47:00 -
[128] - Quote
Why would a senior GM not be explicit about such a thing? Subtly implying it will end up with him getting swamped with escalations when things go wrong - if using the channel to find people to scam was not allowed, he wouldn't hint towards it, he'd be very clear about it. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1099
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 13:55:00 -
[129] - Quote
0/10 for the blantantly obvious troll. 1/10 for making people fall for it. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Triskian
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 14:01:00 -
[130] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:Triskian wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:GM Spiral wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:Nope, still doesn't make sence.
You cannot post anything but legitimate post in channel, i.e. no scams, but at the same time you can be scammed.
It's got to be one or the other. Want a GM responce to this. You are always responsible for the outcome of any deal you enter into yourself in EVE Online, Customer Support can not protect you from your own choices. Posting scams in the Recruitment Channel is forbidden in the same way that posting off topic there is forbidden. It is a measure of moderation of the channel, being a member of the channel does not carry with it any implied protection from such scams any more than being a member of the Help channel does. So the practical outcome will be that if you do get scamed, then tough luck and you don't get your stuff back, but at least the scammers themselves will be punished. Do I have that right? You have really bad reading comprehension skills. I don't see how he could've made it any more clear. P.S. Your posting stinks. Your a goon. Goons have trouble with subtleties. Enough said.
That's prejudice, you sir are not only a bad poster, but racist against Goons. Even when they're trying to help you by giving you constructive criticism and making a subtle suggestion you reread the post you resort to stereotyping me simply because of what I am. |
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 14:04:00 -
[131] - Quote
GM Spiral wrote:I was directed to this thread shortly after I updated the current MotD of the Recruitment Channel a few minutes ago.
To be succinct: 1. Scamming is not forbidden in EVE unless they are facilitated through bugs, exploits and the like. Likewise, if they are conducted in such a manner as to violate the ToS or EULA they will be stopped. 2. The onus of responsibility was always on the shoulders of both parties involved in recruitment. It was stated so in the MotD even, although it did not receive much attention. If the recruit or recruiter got scammed or betrayed in any way, it would be their responsibility for having entered into the deal. 3. For the simple purpose of keeping the channel somewhat usable, posting scams into it was considered off topic and therefore forbidden. Updating the MotD to emphasize this then spun into the current situation, which should now be (hopefully) clarified.
GM Spiral wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:Nope, still doesn't make sence.
You cannot post anything but legitimate post in channel, i.e. no scams, but at the same time you can be scammed.
It's got to be one or the other. Want a GM responce to this. You are always responsible for the outcome of any deal you enter into yourself in EVE Online, Customer Support can not protect you from your own choices. Posting scams in the Recruitment Channel is forbidden in the same way that posting off topic there is forbidden. It is a measure of moderation of the channel, being a member of the channel does not carry with it any implied protection from such scams any more than being a member of the Help channel does.
Can you please answer the petition I have regarding this? |
Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries Bloodbound.
77
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 14:08:00 -
[132] - Quote
Triskian wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:Triskian wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:[quote=GM Spiral]Nope, still doesn't make sence.
You cannot post anything but legitimate post in channel, i.e. no scams, but at the same time you can be scammed.
It's got to be one or the other. Want a GM responce to this. You are always responsible for the outcome of any deal you enter into yourself in EVE Online, Customer Support can not protect you from your own choices. Posting scams in the Recruitment Channel is forbidden in the same way that posting off topic there is forbidden. It is a measure of moderation of the channel, being a member of the channel does not carry with it any implied protection from such scams any more than being a member of the Help channel does. So the practical outcome will be that if you do get scamed, then tough luck and you don't get your stuff back, but at least the scammers themselves will be punished. Do I have that right? Your a goon. Goons have trouble with subtleties. Enough said. That's prejudice, you sir are not only a bad poster, but racist against Goons. Even when they're trying to help you by giving you constructive criticism and making a subtle suggestion you reread the post you resort to stereotyping me simply because of what I am.
I am a racist against Goons. Not against EULA though.....
Andski says I have it right, and Killiana Lett says I do not. Not going to trust goons anyways, so still seaking a GM clarification.
I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Triskian
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 14:19:00 -
[133] - Quote
Scammer A posts in Recruitment channel looking for people to "join" his corp for the opportunity of a lifetime. Mark B gets scammed by Scammer A. Mark B reports Scammer A. Mark B gets told "tough luck" by CCP. Scammer A gets punished by CCP for posting "off topic" in the channel, we'll say this punishment is a ban from the channel (which is a likely outcome). Scammer A gets to keep what he scammed but is unable to find more marks in the channel.
How hard is this to understand? |
Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries Bloodbound.
77
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 14:27:00 -
[134] - Quote
Triskian wrote:Scammer A posts in Recruitment channel looking for people to "join" his corp for the opportunity of a lifetime. Mark B gets scammed by Scammer A. Mark B reports Scammer A. Mark B gets told "tough luck" by CCP. Scammer A gets punished by CCP for posting "off topic" in the channel, we'll say this punishment is a ban from the channel (which is a likely outcome). Scammer A gets to keep what he scammed but is unable to find more marks in the channel.
How hard is this to understand?
Now could a GM say this please. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
testobjekt
Creative Accounting Institute
83
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 14:38:00 -
[135] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:Triskian wrote:Scammer A posts in Recruitment channel looking for people to "join" his corp for the opportunity of a lifetime. Mark B gets scammed by Scammer A. Mark B reports Scammer A. Mark B gets told "tough luck" by CCP. Scammer A gets punished by CCP for posting "off topic" in the channel, we'll say this punishment is a ban from the channel (which is a likely outcome). Scammer A gets to keep what he scammed but is unable to find more marks in the channel.
How hard is this to understand? Now could a GM say this please.
I believe GMs have more important tasks then helping you understand basic english. Maybe ask your teacher ? |
Franklin D Roosevelt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
48
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 14:57:00 -
[136] - Quote
This is a pretty good thread. I like when pubbies don't get what they want. It just proves that goons still control Eve because of CCP Sreegs having formerly been their CEO and Mittani and him being very very very very close friends. Sorry pubbies but you need to learn that this is a goon game first and then a mining simulator second.
Pubbies keep your eyes out for a bigger scandal than the T20 one to happen soon... Mark my words. This rabbit hole goes super super deep. |
Ptraci
StoneWall Metals Productions Bloodbound.
340
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:02:00 -
[137] - Quote
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote: It just proves that goons still control Eve .
LOL! Yeah. OK. Keep telling yourself that. |
Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
670
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:02:00 -
[138] - Quote
I don't understand this thread. Goons don't scam.
-áThough All Men Do Despise Us |
Franklin D Roosevelt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
48
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:03:00 -
[139] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Franklin D Roosevelt wrote: It just proves that goons still control Eve . LOL! Yeah. OK. Keep telling yourself that.
Andski complained and rule changed. When is the last time a pubby had that pull? |
testobjekt
Creative Accounting Institute
86
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:05:00 -
[140] - Quote
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:Ptraci wrote:Franklin D Roosevelt wrote: It just proves that goons still control Eve . LOL! Yeah. OK. Keep telling yourself that. Andski complained and rule changed. When is the last time a pubby had that pull?
There was no rule change. Andskis brilliant reasoning just made it clear to CCP that the current wording of the rule in the recruitment channel was inappropriate and needed to be made clear. We all should be thankful for this. |
|
Rachel Rose
Heroes of the Past Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:08:00 -
[141] - Quote
NEVER compromise the sandbox
Edit: GM Spiral to the rescue!, Eve Hero |
Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries Bloodbound.
77
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:11:00 -
[142] - Quote
testobjekt wrote:Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:Ptraci wrote:Franklin D Roosevelt wrote: It just proves that goons still control Eve . LOL! Yeah. OK. Keep telling yourself that. Andski complained and rule changed. When is the last time a pubby had that pull? There was no rule change. Andskis brilliant reasoning just made it clear to CCP that the current wording of the rule in the recruitment channel was inappropriate and needed to be made clear. We all should be thankful for this.
Except it's not clear.
People using the channel need to know if they can be scammed or not. A GM telling them that recruitment scams are not allowed, but then when they do get scammed it's tough luck, is only mudding the waters.
If something happens that is not allowed, people want to be reimbursed and compensated.
Still waiting for a full and final clarification from a GM. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
testobjekt
Creative Accounting Institute
86
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:17:00 -
[143] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:testobjekt wrote:Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:Ptraci wrote:Franklin D Roosevelt wrote: It just proves that goons still control Eve . LOL! Yeah. OK. Keep telling yourself that. Andski complained and rule changed. When is the last time a pubby had that pull? There was no rule change. Andskis brilliant reasoning just made it clear to CCP that the current wording of the rule in the recruitment channel was inappropriate and needed to be made clear. We all should be thankful for this. Except it's not clear. People using the channel need to know if they can be scammed or not. A GM telling them that recruitment scams are not allowed, but then when they do get scammed it's tough luck, is only mudding the waters. If something happens that is not allowed, people want to be reimbursed and compensated. Still waiting for a full and final clarification from a GM.
you know whats the best way to test it? Just get scammed by a goon for everything you have and get final confirmation from a GM. |
Esbelta
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:17:00 -
[144] - Quote
You cant really be this dumb. |
Franklin D Roosevelt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
48
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:19:00 -
[145] - Quote
testobjekt wrote:Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:Ptraci wrote:Franklin D Roosevelt wrote: It just proves that goons still control Eve . LOL! Yeah. OK. Keep telling yourself that. Andski complained and rule changed. When is the last time a pubby had that pull? There was no rule change. Andskis brilliant reasoning just made it clear to CCP that the current wording of the rule in the recruitment channel was inappropriate and needed to be made clear. We all should be thankful for this.
Two goons were just reprimanded for using the recruitment channel to find marks and had billions of isk taken from them. The rule prior to this clarification was that the recruitment channel should not be used as a tool in scamming as evidenced by their enforcement. Now those two goons will get their precious isk back it seems as the rule was dumb and now changed. You can play semantics but the reality is that prior to this change things were moderated quite differently and it changed because goons cried.
People came into this thread to say goon tears are the best tears not realizing that goon tears get major changes made to this game and pubby tears mean nothing. |
Drew Solaert
University of Caille Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:22:00 -
[146] - Quote
Its a tiny part of the game be happy you have as much freedom to scam as you already do tbh. |
Franklin D Roosevelt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
48
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:25:00 -
[147] - Quote
Drew Solaert wrote:Its a tiny part of the game be happy you have as much freedom to scam as you already do tbh. Good job reading the thread. (hint goons always get what they want) |
testobjekt
Creative Accounting Institute
86
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:25:00 -
[148] - Quote
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:testobjekt wrote:Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:Ptraci wrote:Franklin D Roosevelt wrote: It just proves that goons still control Eve . LOL! Yeah. OK. Keep telling yourself that. Andski complained and rule changed. When is the last time a pubby had that pull? There was no rule change. Andskis brilliant reasoning just made it clear to CCP that the current wording of the rule in the recruitment channel was inappropriate and needed to be made clear. We all should be thankful for this. Two goons were just reprimanded for using the recruitment channel to find marks and had billions of isk taken from them. The rule prior to this clarification was that the recruitment channel should not be used as a tool in scamming as evidenced by their enforcement. Now those two goons will get their precious isk back it seems as the rule was dumb and now changed. You can play semantics but the reality is that prior to this change things were moderated quite differently and it changed because goons cried. People came into this thread to say goon tears are the best tears not realizing that goon tears get major changes made to this game and pubby tears mean nothing.
An in reallity this happend:
A junior GM got a petition, he never did before. It was late at night/he works in the US and does what he thinks is right based on the information he gets from the Channel MOTD. He reimburses the guy who got scammed and takes the money from the scammer.
Next morning, Senior GM Spiral, looks at the case and sees the error that was made. He decides that the rule was not stated in a clear and precise manner and corrects this.
He clearly states the rule did not changed and what the purpose is (to keep offtopic out of the channel, not to prevent scams)
|
Triskian
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:26:00 -
[149] - Quote
Franklin D Roosevelt wrote:testobjekt wrote:[quote=Franklin D Roosevelt][quote=Ptraci][quote=Franklin D Roosevelt] It just proves that goons still control Eve . pubby tears mean nothing.
This is by no means true at all. Pubbie tears are sweet ambrosia, a balm for all goon ailments. They are what motivate us to get up in the morning. We cherish each and every one.
|
|
GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
111
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 15:33:00 -
[150] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:Except it's not clear.
People using the channel need to know if they can be scammed or not. A GM telling them that recruitment scams are not allowed, but then when they do get scammed it's tough luck, is only mudding the waters.
If something happens that is not allowed, people want to be reimbursed and compensated.
Still waiting for a full and final clarification from a GM.
If you enter into any deal in EVE Online and get scammed, without the aid of a bug or an exploit, then you are not eligible for reimbursement of any of the loss you may have suffered. This is regardless of what chat channel you may or may not be a member of at the time. You enter into deals with other players in EVE Online at your own risk and responsibility.
Players posting scams on the channel may expect warnings or even bans, if verified. As with many other channels in EVE, the recruitment channel is not moderated and relies on players reporting inappropriate language and behaviour to us through the petition system. If it was not clear enough, posting scams in the recruitment channel is considered on the same level as posting obscene links or language and will be treated accordingly.
Scamming, recruitment or not, is not forbidden in EVE. We encourage all pilots to exercise caution and common sense when dealing with other pilots in the game world. Your most valuable commodity in EVE is always going to be your trust, please don't sell it cheap.
Senior Game Master | EVE Online Customer Support Team | Info Group | CCP Games
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
|
|
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1030
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 16:40:00 -
[151] - Quote
Off topic posts and inappropriate language removed. Please stay civil, polite and on topic.
I would also like to remind you on rules 9, 10 and 13 of our forum rules. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries Bloodbound.
77
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 16:49:00 -
[152] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Off topic posts and inappropriate language removed. Please stay civil, polite and on topic. I would also like to remind you on rules 9, 10 and 13 of our forum rules.
CCP Phantom, you deleted GM Sprials post which was ment to be a final clarification of the issue at hand. Is he going to repost it? I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
|
GM Spiral
Game Masters C C P Alliance
111
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 17:16:00 -
[153] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:Except it's not clear.
People using the channel need to know if they can be scammed or not. A GM telling them that recruitment scams are not allowed, but then when they do get scammed it's tough luck, is only mudding the waters.
If something happens that is not allowed, people want to be reimbursed and compensated.
Still waiting for a full and final clarification from a GM.
If you enter into any deal in EVE Online and get scammed, without the aid of a bug or an exploit, then you are not eligible for reimbursement of any of the loss you may have suffered. This is regardless of what chat channel you may or may not be a member of at the time. You enter into deals with other players in EVE Online at your own risk and responsibility.
Players posting scams on the channel may expect warnings or even bans, if verified. As with many other channels in EVE, the recruitment channel is not moderated and relies on players reporting inappropriate language and behaviour to us through the petition system. If it was not clear enough, posting scams in the recruitment channel is considered on the same level as posting obscene links or language and will be treated accordingly.
Scamming, recruitment or not, is not forbidden in EVE. We encourage all pilots to exercise caution and common sense when dealing with other pilots in the game world. Your most valuable commodity in EVE is always going to be your trust, please don't sell it cheap.
Senior Game Master | EVE Online Customer Support Team | Info Group | CCP Games
Helping capsuleers since 2004. |
|
Franklin D Roosevelt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
52
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 17:20:00 -
[154] - Quote
I think that this change fostered by goons is a good one for Eve as a whole because it puts more pubbies at a disadvantage against the constant goon onslaught. Thank you GM Spiral for your hard work at oppressing pubbies at the request of your goon masters. |
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