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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.30 00:41:00 -
[541]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Alot was said there and you expect me to pull something out of there?
It was a very short post where it all gets started, and it's quite clear what I mean if you look for the word "model" in the responses to that one, actually, so yes, I kind of expected you to. But ok, you've all heard it before:
You don't actually own the wreck ù it's free for all to use and abuse. The wreck contains an (owned) can that holds the loot. If the wreck is empty, the (owned) can is still there. You can't shoot the wreck because you damage the owned can. You can't tractor the wreck, because you'd also move the owned can. You can salvage the wreck because it's free for all.
Quote: So at least you are admitting that cans were replaced..we are going places.
Not really, no, for the simple reason that I never disputed it. If by "going places" you mean "we stay where we already are", then yesà
Quote: What makes it unfinished is that the game does not show that the wreck belongs to no one as intended by ccp.
Which once again raises the question of how they should have done that?
An empty can contains no loot. Apart fromm the fact that they were replaced and no longer exist to begin with.
Quote: I can and do because they could have changed the old content while bringing in the new.
What is the old and new content you're referring to here?
Quote: And that is only a fix if the mission runner chooses to abandon the wreck and does so.
It's a fix if it happens automatically to empty wrecks.
Quote: Giving it up in free will not because the game design dictates it like it should to reflect the intended design.
I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you're saying here so you'll have to correct me. I read this as ôauto-abandoning empty wrecks will not fix the ownership confusion because that would reflect the intended game designö (which obviously isn't the right interpretation since it doesn't make sense).
Quote: The sloppy unfinished content was thrown out there without changing the wrecks tag to reflect the intended game design.
Which again comes back to the question of: how should they have communicated loot ownership then? And how should they have handled empty wrecks?
Quote: I can teach you that the sky is green doesn't make it so.
Fortunately, that's not what I'm doing. I'm giving a model that explains why you can do the things you can do and can't do the things you can't do, and I'm trying to do it without going into the game design questions of who earns what from which profession because that just ends up confusing peopleà
Quote: Sorry no..thats what weve been arguing about for 18 pages. What belongs or appears to belong to who.
And in the end, the fact of the matter is that the flagging of the wreck is of exactly zero relevance to salvaging.
Quote:
Originally by: Mintala Arana The conflict between mission runner and ninja salvager is intentional.
Then why not flag the salvager and let the two go at it?
Because that's not the conflict they're going for and because that would boost the rewards of missions, which is definitely not what they're going for. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Tanya Tarajaka
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Posted - 2011.04.30 00:50:00 -
[542]
Originally by: Tippia You don't actually own the wreck ù it's free for all to use and abuse. The wreck contains an (owned) can that holds the loot. If the wreck is empty, the (owned) can is still there. You can't shoot the wreck because you damage the owned can. You can't tractor the wreck, because you'd also move the owned can. You can salvage the wreck because it's free for all.
Which is a pretty useless game mechanic, designed to create conflict but also inhibits conflict at the same time. Flag ninja salvagers as targets then conflict can actually commence rather than giving ninja salvagers a free ride.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.30 00:54:00 -
[543]
Originally by: Tanya Tarajaka Which is a pretty useless game mechanic, designed to create conflict but also inhibits conflict at the same time.
Nah. It's quite aptly designed to create a certain kind of conflict: competition over resources in the form of a "who gets it first" race. It's much like mining, only with very small asteroinds.
Quote: Flag ninja salvagers as targets then conflict can actually commence rather than giving ninja salvagers a free ride.
The conflict is already there ù it's inherent in the design of the race. And considering the work the ninja has to do, to qualify for the race, it's hardly a free ride. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Tanya Tarajaka
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Posted - 2011.04.30 01:04:00 -
[544]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Tanya Tarajaka Which is a pretty useless game mechanic, designed to create conflict but also inhibits conflict at the same time.
Nah. It's quite aptly designed to create a certain kind of conflict: competition over resources in the form of a "who gets it first" race. It's much like mining, only with very small asteroinds.
That's crap nothing like mining, ninja salvagers tend to get to work whilst you're busy in combat with the rats. It's not even a race, it's just free goods to the ninja if they happen to turn up, unless you blow the wreaks up and waste yours and their time.
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Tanya Tarajaka
Flag ninja salvagers as targets then conflict can actually commence rather than giving ninja salvagers a free ride.
The conflict is already there ù it's inherent in the design of the race. And considering the work the ninja has to do, to qualify for the race, it's hardly a free ride.
That's also crap, the conflict is somebody getting p***ed off because there's not too much they can do about it. So, simple answer is to flag the ninja so that actual combat can take place.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.30 01:12:00 -
[545]
Edited by: Tippia on 30/04/2011 01:12:36
Originally by: Tanya Tarajaka That's crap nothing like mining,
Sure it is. It's just that you've chosen to mine in a Raven, whereas the other guy has a Covetorà you've not really picked the right tool for the job (which is a rather unsurprising problem that comes with trying to do two things at once).
Quote: That's also crap, the conflict is somebody getting p***ed off because there's not too much they can do about it.
If they get that ****ed off, they can dec the guy or just blow him up regardless. Just because it's not a "pew-pew" conflict doesn't mean there's no conflict.
Quote: So, simple answer is to flag the ninja so that actual combat can take place.
It's not that simple, because that would increase the reward set for missions, and that wouldn't be goodà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Tanya Tarajaka
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Posted - 2011.04.30 01:22:00 -
[546]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 30/04/2011 01:12:36
Originally by: Tanya Tarajaka That's crap nothing like mining,
Sure it is. It's just that you've chosen to mine in a Raven, whereas the other guy has a Covetorà you've not really picked the right tool for the job (which is a rather unsurprising problem that comes with trying to do two things at once).
Quote: That's also crap, the conflict is somebody getting p***ed off because there's not too much they can do about it.
If they get that ****ed off, they can dec the guy or just blow him up regardless. Just because it's not a "pew-pew" conflict doesn't mean there's no conflict.
Quote: So, simple answer is to flag the ninja so that actual combat can take place.
It's not that simple, because that would increase the reward set for missions, and that wouldn't be goodà
Seems to me you you like it the way it is because you get a free meal ticket. And until ninja salvagers are flagged they will always get a free meal ticket.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.30 01:24:00 -
[547]
Originally by: Tippia It's not that simple, because that would increase the reward set for missions, and that wouldn't be goodà
Says you..but we'll save that for next weeks discussion.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.30 01:27:00 -
[548]
Originally by: Tanya Tarajaka Seems to me you you like it the way it is because you get a free meal ticket.
I do. Missions are about as "free meal ticket" as it gets, which is why I do them rather than (say) salvaging.
àok, not true: I salvage my missions as well to fill out the time and keep the books in order.
Quote: And until ninja salvagers are flagged they will always get a free meal ticket.
Seeing as how they have to work harder for the salvage than the mission-runner do, it's not really free. Nor is it really a meal ticket.
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Says you.
Says CCP. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.30 01:32:00 -
[549]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 30/04/2011 01:34:53
Originally by: Tippia Seeing as how they have to work harder for the salvage than the mission-runner do
Right...two weeks of skill training and a 1 million isk ship (fit) and a few days learning to scan.
Mission running takes way more until you get to where we are. I don't know if you fly a golem but my kronos damn sure took a lot more to get. Refitting and killing all the rats is still more effort than a ninja will ever do I don't see it.
Not to mention the required standing.
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Tanya Tarajaka
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Posted - 2011.04.30 01:40:00 -
[550]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Tanya Tarajaka Seems to me you you like it the way it is because you get a free meal ticket.
I do. Missions are about as "free meal ticket" as it gets, which is why I do them rather than (say) salvaging.
àok, not true: I salvage my missions as well to fill out the time and keep the books in order.
Quote: And until ninja salvagers are flagged they will always get a free meal ticket.
Seeing as how they have to work harder for the salvage than the mission-runner do, it's not really free. Nor is it really a meal ticket.
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Says you.
Says CCP.
The fact you're saying how hard it is suggests you either do it or have done it or you're not talking from experience.
Never tried it myself, but it does not seem that hard to me.
Sit outside a station that has a lvl 4 agent, then wait for example a battleship that does not go towards a gate or station. Then send your probes off after it. If the feed back from the probes gives a character name it would be even easier.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.30 01:44:00 -
[551]
Edited by: Tippia on 30/04/2011 01:45:38
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Right...two weeks of skill training and a 1 million isk ship (fit) and a few days learning to scan.
Yes. That's a few days more than the mission-runner needs.
Then there's the actual probing process, which is more work than rclick→warp to mission bookmark; dscanning the area and evaluating the hits (in relation to the ship(s) doing the mission), which is more work than sitting in the pocket and looking at the overview; travelling to each wreck and salvaging them, which is more work than sitting still and using tractorsà
Quote: Mission running takes way mor until you get to where we are.
Yes, mission-running requires a bit more than salvaging, but that's not what we're talking about ù this is about the work required to earn the salvage.
Quote: Refitting and killing all the rats is still more effort than a ninja will ever do I don't see it.
The mission-runner's effort to run the mission is compensated by the mission rewards. His effort to salvage the wrecks is compensated by the salvage, and that effort is much less than the ninja has to put in.
Quote: Not to mention the required standing.
Neither party needs any standing (beyond not being chased by the faction police) to salvage. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Dolm De'Mourne
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Posted - 2011.04.30 01:46:00 -
[552]
Originally by: Tanya Tarajaka
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Tanya Tarajaka Seems to me you you like it the way it is because you get a free meal ticket.
I do. Missions are about as "free meal ticket" as it gets, which is why I do them rather than (say) salvaging.
àok, not true: I salvage my missions as well to fill out the time and keep the books in order.
Quote: And until ninja salvagers are flagged they will always get a free meal ticket.
Seeing as how they have to work harder for the salvage than the mission-runner do, it's not really free. Nor is it really a meal ticket.
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Says you.
Says CCP.
The fact you're saying how hard it is suggests you either do it or have done it or you're not talking from experience.
Never tried it myself, but it does not seem that hard to me.
Sit outside a station that has a lvl 4 agent, then wait for example a battleship that does not go towards a gate or station. Then send your probes off after it. If the feed back from the probes gives a character name it would be even easier.
As opposed to already having the bookmark because you created the wreck and having 80km tractor beams instead of having to fly to each wreck, yeah comparatively it's much easier for the mission runner. NO scanning and minimal travel.
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Tanya Tarajaka
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Posted - 2011.04.30 01:58:00 -
[553]
Edited by: Tanya Tarajaka on 30/04/2011 02:03:02 Edited by: Tanya Tarajaka on 30/04/2011 02:02:48 Edited by: Tanya Tarajaka on 30/04/2011 02:00:28
Originally by: Dolm De'Mourne
As opposed to already having the bookmark because you created the wreck and having 80km tractor beams instead of having to fly to each wreck, yeah comparatively it's much easier for the mission runner. NO scanning and minimal travel.
Put the important part in bold from your quote here. 80km tractor beams? now I feel short changed using 20km ones myself. And those 20km ones take awhile to pull the wreak to you. I've had a ninja on one of my missions use an mwd, not something I'd fit normally for a mission anyway, but it did him no good as I just blew the wreaks just before he got to them.
Edit: And back to that important point you made, don't you think that someone who creates a wreak has a right to defend it. Then it's simple just flag ninja salvagers.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.30 01:58:00 -
[554]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 30/04/2011 01:59:48
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 30/04/2011 01:47:03
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Right...two weeks of skill training and a 1 million isk ship (fit) and a few days learning to scan.
Yes. That's a few days more than the mission-runner needs.
Then there's the actual probing process, which is more work than rclick→warp to mission bookmark; dscanning the area and evaluating the hits (in relation to the ship(s) doing the mission), which is more work than sitting in the pocket and looking at the overview; travelling to each wreck and salvaging them, which is more work than sitting still and using tractorsà
Quote: Mission running takes way mor until you get to where we are.
Yes, mission-running requires a bit more than salvaging, but that's not what we're talking about ù this is about the work required to earn the salvage.
Quote: Refitting and killing all the rats is still more effort than a ninja will ever do I don't see it.
The mission-runner's effort to run the mission is compensated by the mission rewards. His effort to salvage the wrecks is compensated by the salvage, and that effort is much less than the ninja has to put in.
Quote: Not to mention the required standing.
Neither party needs any standing (beyond not being chased by the faction police) to salvage.
Originally by: Tanya Tarajaka Never tried it myself
Maybe you shouldà
I can't understand the way you think really.It's posts like this that make me think "does this guy really believe what he's saying?". Because this whole post is way off and just not right in so many ways.
Make two alts..one to run all lvl 4 missions and one to ninja salvage and then come back and tell me who gets going first.Not only that but tell me the costs of both professions and the end payout that isn't that far apart. Until then I'm going to stamp that post of yours as ******ed.
And yes lvl 4 agents require quite a bit of standing.
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Soma Parias Azaph
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Posted - 2011.04.30 02:04:00 -
[555]
Originally by: Tanya Tarajaka
Originally by: Dolm De'Mourne
As opposed to already having the bookmark because you created the wreck and having 80km tractor beams instead of having to fly to each wreck, yeah comparatively it's much easier for the mission runner. NO scanning and minimal travel.
Put the important part in bold from your quote here. 80km tractor beams? now I feel short changed using 20km ones myself. And those 20km ones take awhile to pull the wreak to you. I've had a ninja on one of my missions use an mwd, not something I'd fit normally for a mission anyway, but it did him no good as I just blew the wreaks just before he got to them.
Invest in a noctis. If you do a lot of salvaging it's worth it. You'll feel better about those tractor beams in no time As far as the salvage, it not in my hold or in my can, so it's not mine. You can't own [/b]potential[/b] resources since they do not exist.
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Dolm De'Mourne
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Posted - 2011.04.30 02:06:00 -
[556]
Whoops, posted from the wrong character
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Tanya Tarajaka
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Posted - 2011.04.30 02:10:00 -
[557]
Originally by: Soma Parias Azaph
Originally by: Tanya Tarajaka
Originally by: Dolm De'Mourne
As opposed to already having the bookmark because you created the wreck and having 80km tractor beams instead of having to fly to each wreck, yeah comparatively it's much easier for the mission runner. NO scanning and minimal travel.
Put the important part in bold from your quote here. 80km tractor beams? now I feel short changed using 20km ones myself. And those 20km ones take awhile to pull the wreak to you. I've had a ninja on one of my missions use an mwd, not something I'd fit normally for a mission anyway, but it did him no good as I just blew the wreaks just before he got to them.
Invest in a noctis. If you do a lot of salvaging it's worth it. You'll feel better about those tractor beams in no time As far as the salvage, it not in my hold or in my can, so it's not mine. You can't own [/b]potential[/b] resources since they do not exist.
If I'm able to tank the mission I tend to salvage whilst killing the rats, saves time in the long run.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.30 02:14:00 -
[558]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 30/04/2011 02:15:42
Ill break it down for you. In order to even get the chance to profit from a lvl 4 including its salvage you need...
1.Start at lvl 1. Tools needed...a frig fully fit around 5 million isk.
2.move on to lvl 2. Tools needed...a destroyer fully fit around 10 million isk.
3.move on to lvl 3. Tools needed...a battlecruiser fully fit around 60 million isk.
4.move on to lvl 4. Tools needed...a fully fit and well skilled battleship costing around 200 million isk.
And to do them fast and easy including tractor beaming and being able to salvage you need a marauder costing almost a billion isk fully fit.And a lot of skills in weapons and tank.
Now lets look at the salvagers career..lol do I even need to start?!?
Now who has it easier to get to that lvl salvage? Oh right it was the salvager
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.30 02:22:00 -
[559]
Edited by: Tippia on 30/04/2011 02:25:31
Originally by: Tanya Tarajaka Put the important part in bold from your quote here.
The bolded part is spectacularly unimportant.
Quote: 80km tractor beams?
It's called the Noctis. It's quite neat.
Quote: And back to that important point you made, don't you think that someone who creates a wreak has a right to defend it.
Nah. They've already been paid for creating it, after allà
Originally by: HeIIfire11 I can't understand the way you think really.
It's very simple:
Mission-running is mission-running, and it gets rewarded with mission-running rewards (base ISK, time bonus, LP, standing, bounties, loot ownership). Salvaging is salvaging, and it gets rewarded with salvaging rewards (salvage).
A mission-runner who wants to earn the rewards of salvaging has to engage in salvaging. To do this, he has to train the skill, equip the module, trundle over to the wreck(s) (or a distance away, if he also trained for and equipped a tractor beam), and activate the Salvager module.
A ninja who wants to earn the rewards of salvaging also has to engage in salvaging. To do this, he has to train the skill, train the probing skills (multiple), learn how to probe (and dscan, to be effective), equip both salvager and probe launcher, probe out and evaluate a likely spot for good wrecks, travel there, trundle over to the wreck, and activate the Salvager module.
Comparing mission-running and salvaging is rather pointless, and if you want to argue the effort-vs-reward of various professions, that's a whole other topic.
Comparing a mission-runner and a ninja doing the same thing is something else, though, and as you can see from the lists above, the ninja is the one who has to do more work to earn the same stuff.
Quote: Make two alts..one to run all lvl 4 missions and one to ninja salvage and then come back and tell me who gets going first.
The salvager, obviously. But again: that's not the point ù the point is who has to work harder pursuing the same set of rewards, the mission-runner or the ninja. Obviously, it's the ninja.
Quote: And yes lvl 4 agents require quite a bit of standing.
àbut salvaging does not. For either party.
Quote: In order to even get the chance to profit from a lvl 4 including its salvage you need...
àand it's in the underlined word that you go astray. Just because the mission-runner needs more to run the mission (an effort he's rewarded for through the mission rewards, btw) doesn't mean he needs more to earn the salvage. So let's remove that part since it has nothing to do with the salvaging process, and then revisit your list:
Quote: 1.Start at lvl 1. Tools needed...a frig fully fit around 5 million isk.
2.move on to lvl 2. Tools needed...a destroyer fully fit around 10 million isk a frig fully fit around 5 million isk.
3.move on to lvl 3. Tools needed...a battlecruiser fully fit around 60 million isk a frig fully fit around 5 million isk.
4.move on to lvl 4. Tools needed...a fully fit and well skilled battleship costing around 200 million isk a frig fully fit around 5 million isk.
Fancy thatà
Quote: Now lets look at the salvagers career..lol do I even need to start?!
Let me: a frig fully fit around 5 million isk and salvaging skills (and skillz) and gear. That's more than the mission-runner needs for the same task.
Quote: Now who has it easier to get to that lvl salvage?
The mission-runner, because he already knows the location, because he knows the value of the site, and because he can tractor the wrecks. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Dolm De'Mourne
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Posted - 2011.04.30 02:26:00 -
[560]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 30/04/2011 02:19:52
Ill break it down for you. In order to even get the chance to profit from a lvl 4 including its salvage you need...
1.Start at lvl 1. Tools needed...a frig fully fit around 5 million isk.
2.move on to lvl 2. Tools needed...a destroyer fully fit around 10 million isk.
3.move on to lvl 3. Tools needed...a battlecruiser fully fit around 60 million isk.
4.move on to lvl 4. Tools needed...a fully fit and well skilled battleship costing around 200 million isk.
And to do them fast and easy including tractor beaming and being able to salvage you need a marauder costing almost a billion isk fully fit.And a lot of skills in weapons and tank.
Now lets look at the salvagers career..lol do I even need to start?!?
Now who has it easier to get to that lvl salvage? Oh right it was the salvager
And if you'#re going for the marauder route battleship 5 alone takes like 30 days skill training. I'll make you 3 ninjas in that time.
Personally I use a 2 ship method, but that aside, I can salvage anywhere. It doesn't have to be in a lvl 4.Why should lvl 4's be any different? Someone can ninja an overseer from me in a DED plex. They can ninja the cans in a radar site. They can also mine the ore out from around me in a grav site. What makes lvl 4's so special that they should be immune to intrusion unlike everything else in the game?
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The Forum Twins
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Posted - 2011.04.30 02:30:00 -
[561]
Ninja lifestyle is fun, but too predictable. Piracy and griefing big lazy alliances are where it's at.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.30 02:38:00 -
[562]
You're full of it lol. I think I gave you too much credit. Okay lets "race for the salvage". Oh wait ..without the mission runner there is no lvl 4 salvage. Lets roam the belts and scrap for two years in order to afford a cruiser
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Tanya Tarajaka
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Posted - 2011.04.30 02:39:00 -
[563]
Originally by: Tippia stuff..
You called it a race earlier, but a battleship can not compete against a destroyer for speed. The ninja shows up when you're in the middle of a mission, the 5 mill(ish) salvaging destroyer that belongs to the person doing the mission is useless to them at this point. So the person finishes the section and rushes off to get his salvager by the time he gets back the ninja has already salvaged (looted too if indeed the mission person did leave the site).
So this race of yours in a bit one sided in favour of the ninja.
Best course of action if a ninja shows up is just blow all the wreaks. At least the person doing the mission still gets the bounties.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.30 02:47:00 -
[564]
Originally by: Tanya Tarajaka You called it a race earlier, but a battleship can not compete against a destroyer for speed.
Well, that's what you get for picking the wrong tool for the job (which is hard to avoid if you try to do two things at once). Fortunately, you can transfer your advantages to another person who did bring the right tools and get the upper hand that way.
Quote: So this race of yours in a bit one sided in favour of the ninja.
It's one-sided for the person who has picked the right toolsà and rightfully so.
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Oh wait ..without the mission runner there is no lvl 4 salvage.
àand he gets paid for the service as well. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Corina's Bodyguard
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Posted - 2011.04.30 02:49:00 -
[565]
So for the last week I've tested both professions (lvl 4 mission running and ninjaing peoples wrecks). In 3 days (average of 4 hours each day) of level 4 mission running, I made 115 million (looting all wrecks, salvaging none). Lost one ship because I made a foolish mistake forgetting a flight of light drones. Took every mission offered. EVE survival made running them easy.
In 3 days of ninja salvaging in some popular mission hubs, I made about 50 million (only salvaging, no looting), though I might have made more if I looked around for the best prices instead of only in the one region. Lost one ship (insta popped by a very angry carebear who did not care about the cost of his BS). Most of my time was spent scanning, or flying through acceleration gates just to find that the player was already salvaging their wrecks and had only a few left.
Honestly, I now hate salvaging as a profession. Too much work, not enough goodies. Might have been an off week. But I'd much rather just sit outside Amarr EFA and Jita 4:4 and steal war target loot. Less work, more pay.
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Tanya Tarajaka
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Posted - 2011.04.30 02:54:00 -
[566]
Edited by: Tanya Tarajaka on 30/04/2011 02:54:47
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Oh wait ..without the mission runner there is no lvl 4 salvage.
àand he gets paid for the service as well.
At least the mission runner earned his keep, where as the ninja salvagers are nothing but scavengers, protected scavengers at that. You should pay Concord a percentage of that isk from ninja scavaging, as a form of protection money.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.30 03:06:00 -
[567]
Originally by: Tanya Tarajaka At least the mission runner earned his keep, where as the ninja salvagers are nothing but scavengers, protected scavengers at that.
Mehà the ninja still puts more effort into this salvaging than the mission-runner does, and provides just as useful a service to the game at large.
Quote: You should pay Concord a percentage of that isk from ninja scavenging, as a form of protection money.
They do, in a wayà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Tanya Tarajaka
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Posted - 2011.04.30 03:08:00 -
[568]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Tanya Tarajaka At least the mission runner earned his keep, where as the ninja salvagers are nothing but scavengers, protected scavengers at that.
Mehà the ninja still puts more effort into this salvaging than the mission-runner does, and provides just as useful a service to the game at large.
Quote: You should pay Concord a percentage of that isk from ninja scavenging, as a form of protection money.
They do, in a wayà
Ninja salvagers would do even a better service to the game if they could be legally shot at.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.30 03:11:00 -
[569]
Originally by: Tanya Tarajaka Ninja salvagers would do even a better service to the game if they could be legally shot at.
So you also think that mission deadspace should be locally downgraded to lowsec, I take it? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Mortania
Minmatar No Compromise Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.04.30 03:11:00 -
[570]
Originally by: Tippia Mehà the ninja still puts more effort into this salvaging than the mission-runner does, and provides just as useful a service to the game at large.
You can't honestly believe this.
Yes, missioning can become pretty trivial, but it takes a LONG time to build up to that ability. 3 months at a minimum, and likely much longer before it becomes near autopilot.
Ninja salvagers can be salvaging in days, weeks at the outside.
I'll grant you the payoff for the salvage is not that great. But the risk is near trivial. Lose a 5 million ISK frigate. boo-hoo.
Make a mistake as a level 4 missioner and you're out what? 80 million minimum (drake) and upwards of a billion or more?
You can't honestly believe what you're saying. Not genuinely.
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