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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.24 07:24:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Neoexecutor WHY?
See the CCP Prism X quote earlier in the thread.
You mean the one that confirms that it's a fail game design?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.24 07:27:00 -
[152]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 You mean the one that confirms that it's a fail game design?
No, the one that confirms that salvage isn't part of the mission rewards. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Neoexecutor
Minmatar Skynet Technologies
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Posted - 2011.04.24 07:28:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Neoexecutor WHY?
See the CCP Prism X quote earlier in the thread.
Just did. Made as much sense as the last time. Close to none.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.24 07:29:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Neoexecutor Just did. Made as much sense as the last time. Close to none.
Which part did you have problems understanding? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.24 07:35:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Neoexecutor Just did. Made as much sense as the last time. Close to none.
Which part did you have problems understanding?
The part where he says "because it's a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage" yet you cant scan down wrecks.Theres a lot more wrecks out there with noplayers near them,learn to use your scanner.I hear theres a good tutorial on youtube made by ccp.
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Neoexecutor
Minmatar Skynet Technologies
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Posted - 2011.04.24 07:37:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Neoexecutor Just did. Made as much sense as the last time. Close to none.
Which part did you have problems understanding?
Oh snap, not my reading comprehension! Now you've done it. I must counter insult. Same part you conformed (like all good sheep do) to.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.24 07:38:00 -
[157]
Edited by: Tippia on 24/04/2011 07:40:14
Originally by: HeIIfire11 The part where he says "because it's a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage" yet you cant scan down wrecks.
Why doesn't that make sense to you? Not being able to scan down wreck doesn't keep you from roaming around looking for them, or from hunting down locations where wrecks are likely to be found.
Originally by: Neoexecutor Same part you conformed to.
Which isà? And why do you have problems understanding it? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Neoexecutor
Minmatar Skynet Technologies
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Posted - 2011.04.24 07:50:00 -
[158]
Quote: Which isà?
The part where CCP tells us that wrecks don't belong to people that made them.
Quote: And why do you have problems understanding it?
Because it defies logic.
In before "Why does it defy logic?".
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Ivorr Bigun
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Posted - 2011.04.24 08:00:00 -
[159]
it was my ammo, my time, my standings and my acceptance of that mission that caused the salvage to exist in the first place.
As such its not too much to ask that stealing my salvage should flag the ninja.
Originally by: CCP Shadow bodily fluid
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.24 08:06:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Neoexecutor In before "Why does it defy logic?".
So if you can predict the question, why not simply answer it?
Wrecks are there to provide salvagers with something to salvage from. Why should the salvage belong to you, rather to a salvager, without any effort on your behalf?
Originally by: Ivorr Bigun it was my ammo, my time, my standings and my acceptance of that mission that caused the salvage to exist in the first place.
No it was not. None of that created any salvage whatsoever.
It was someone's salvaging module that did.
Quote: As such its not too much to ask that stealing my salvage should flag the ninja.
Stealing your salvage already flags the thief. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.24 08:11:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Neoexecutor In before "Why does it defy logic?".
So if you can predict the question, why not simply answer it?
Already been answered..reread the thread.
Originally by: Tippia Wrecks are there to provide salvagers with something to salvage from. Why should the salvage belong to you, rather to a salvager, without any effort on your behalf?
Why not?
Originally by: Tippia Stealing your salvage already flags the thief.
Nope.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.04.24 08:13:00 -
[162]
Looting and salvaging should give aggro. Wrecks should be freely tractorable, but tractoring a wreck you dont own should also give aggro.
But on the other hand FW agents should also sell short-duration (say 1-2 days) "Letters of Marque And Reprise" allowing FW players to engage without CONCORD interference (but of course still very much with faction navy interference) players with a modified standing of -5.00 or less to their faction.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Neoexecutor
Minmatar Skynet Technologies
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Posted - 2011.04.24 08:14:00 -
[163]
Quote: In before "Why does it defy logic?". So if you can predict the question, why not simply answer it?
Well if i did you couldn't ask "why" and since that's about all you're doing tonight it would be rude of me to leave you without a comeback.
Quote: Wrecks are there to provide salvagers with something to salvage from. Why should the salvage belong to you, rather to a salvager, without any effort on your behalf?
Wreck wouldn't exist if i didn't create it. If i created the wreck then it's mine to salvage, leave to rot or destroy it. Someone else can salvage it sure, but like any other act of thievery should be labeled as one.
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Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2011.04.24 08:20:00 -
[164]
Tippia, I am in awe of your ability to continue trying to explain the obvious to the intransigently stupid.
I love these threads, and I love them all the more when my infoblock of pertinent dev quotes lands on page one, the way it did here. As far as I'm concerned, those quotes should be a thread-killer ... but they never are.
As somebody who was looting mission-runner cans all the way back in the days when missions were on the stargates and mission rats didn't even drop wrecks, I'd like to join the chorus of people who think it would be amusing to give these fools what they demand. Another aggression flag? I guarantee the folks who enjoy busting into missions will have more fun with that than the mission runners will! ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.24 08:28:00 -
[165]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Already been answered..reread the thread.
àand that answer was answered in turn. Time to respond to that.
Quote: Why not?
Not a sufficient reason. So again: Why should the salvage belong to you, rather to a salvager, without any effort on your behalf?
Quote: Nope.
Yes it does. Learn the mechanics before commenting.
Originally by: Neoexecutor Well if i did you couldn't ask "why" and since that's about all you're doing tonight it would be rude of me to leave you without a comeback.
Do you know why I keep asking that question? Because you keep not answering it.
Why should you get the salvage without any effort on your behalf? Why do you need to be paid more than you already are?
Quote: Wreck wouldn't exist if i didn't create it.
So what? The purpose of the wreck is to create something for salvagers to hunt down and salvage. What makes your participation relevant in those proceedings?
Wreck wouldn't exist if the miners didn't create the minerals in your ship. Are you saying that the salvage should belong to them? Why are you stealing from the poor miners ù unlike you, they could really need the buff.
Quote: If i created the wreck then it's mine to salvage, leave to rot or destroy it.
Why should it belong to you and not to the salvager for whom it actually serves a purpose? What have you done to deserve it? Why should you get the salvage without any effort on your behalf? Why do you need to be paid more than you already are? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.04.24 08:28:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Marlenus Tippia, I am in awe of your ability to continue trying to explain the obvious to the intransigently stupid.
I love these threads, and I love them all the more when my infoblock of pertinent dev quotes lands on page one, the way it did here. As far as I'm concerned, those quotes should be a thread-killer ... but they never are.
As somebody who was looting mission-runner cans all the way back in the days when missions were on the stargates and mission rats didn't even drop wrecks, I'd like to join the chorus of people who think it would be amusing to give these fools what they demand. Another aggression flag? I guarantee the folks who enjoy busting into missions will have more fun with that than the mission runners will!
Your "infoblock of pertinent dev quotes" is worthless because it doesn't address any of the topics mentioned in this thread.That you even refer to those quotes shows that you are infact the stupid one and a fanboy aswell.
0/10
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Neoexecutor
Minmatar Skynet Technologies
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Posted - 2011.04.24 08:29:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Marlenus stuff
Man where did you get a horse that high?
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Neoexecutor
Minmatar Skynet Technologies
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Posted - 2011.04.24 08:53:00 -
[168]
Quote: Do you know why I keep asking that question? Because you keep not answering it. Why should you get the salvage without any effort on your behalf? Why do you need to be paid more than you already are?
I don't want to salvage effortlessly and i don't want to be paid more. You keep putting words in people's mouth. What i want is that things i create would belong to me.
Quote: So what? The purpose of the wreck is to create something for salvagers to hunt down and salvage. What makes your participation relevant in those proceedings?
I created the wreck, that's what makes my participation relevant. When you manufacture a batch of ships using your own blueprint and your own minerals, do you expect said batch of ships to belong to you? No?
Quote: Wreck wouldn't exist if the miners didn't create the minerals in your ship. Are you saying that the salvage should belong to them? Why are you stealing from the poor miners ù unlike you, they could really need the buff.
I paid for my ship with ISK. As in ownership rights were given to me for an exchange of certain amount of ISK. I don't see ninja salvagers offering me any isk for my wrecks.
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Raiykjab
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Posted - 2011.04.24 09:03:00 -
[169]
I so agree with the OP, the ninja salvager should get flagged so there won't be any concord intervention, hell OP isn't even asking for an instant self-destruct nuke like I would. Seems also to be leading more toward this important part of the game, you know... PVP |
Neoexecutor
Minmatar Skynet Technologies
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Posted - 2011.04.24 09:04:00 -
[170]
On a side note, our little conversation tonight reminded me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qnq7N6X4x84, especially the part where Jesus tries to explain why killing people is wrong.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.04.24 09:07:00 -
[171]
I personally, would love to see ninja salvagers getting flagged. The flood of MR tears on these forums, would explode. (Pardon the pun)
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2011.04.24 09:09:00 -
[172]
This is still going?
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Your "infoblock of pertinent dev quotes" is worthless because it doesn't address any of the topics mentioned in this thread.That you even refer to those quotes shows that you are infact the stupid one and a fanboy aswell.
0/10
That quotes from CCP SHOULD have ended the thread. You just keep ignoring them. CCP said numerous times: This is intended game design. Although you may not like that descission made by the developer, it therefore is not "bad game design". In an MMO, encouraging player interaction is actually a good game design descission.
Just answer this question: Why should high sec players have even more guaranteed ISK when running lvl 4 missions. Don't give us any RL or "logical" reasons. This is simply about game balance.
Keep in mind that mission salvagers are rather uncommon outside of larger mission hubs. It's easy to avoid them. I personally have in the past and am now making my living doing lvl 4s and have only had mission salvagers in my missions twice in the past years.
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Zaqar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2011.04.24 09:11:00 -
[173]
Happy Easter, Eve forums. --
Originally by: Brian Ballsack please learn to use english if your gonna post
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.04.24 09:12:00 -
[174]
Edited by: Tippia on 24/04/2011 09:15:20
Originally by: Neoexecutor I don't want to salvage effortlessly and i don't want to be paid more.
Then you need to stop claiming that they're stealing from you.
Quote: What i want is that things i create would belong to me.
But that's just it: the rewards you create already belong to you. You didn't create the salvage (which, as mentioned so many times now, are the rewards for a completely different and separate activity), but you still want to claim it as yours. In other words, you want to get paid more, and you want the salvage to belong to you without any additional effort.
Quote: I created the wreck, that's what makes my participation relevant.
Yes, you created something that exist for salvagers to make use of, much like the ship manufacturer created ships for you to make use of. Why does creating that resource give you any say in how it is used? Should the ship manufacturers have any say in how you use the ships they created, or is it none of their business seeing as how the resource is actually there for you and you're the one who's actually making use of it?
And more to the point: you didn't participate in the creation of the salvage ù if you did, it would be yours. So why should you have any say as to whom it belongs to?
Quote: I paid for my ship with ISK. As in ownership rights were given to me for an exchange of certain amount of ISK. I don't see ninja salvagers offering me any isk for my wrecks.
Why should they? The wrecks aren't yours after all ù they were created for any salvager to come and use. If you don't want any salvager to come and use them, don't create them; don't let salvagers find you; don't let salvagers get the wrecks; etc etc etc.
Originally by: Raiykjab Seems also to be leading more toward this important part of the game, you know... PVP
Not really, no, since the whole problem is that there's already PvP, which apparently drives people nutsà v0v ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2011.04.24 09:13:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Neoexecutor
I don't want to salvage effortlessly and i don't want to be paid more. You keep putting words in people's mouth. What i want is that things i create would belong to me.
I created the wreck, that's what makes my participation relevant. When you manufacture a batch of ships using your own blueprint and your own minerals, do you expect said batch of ships to belong to you? No?
I understand your argument. The answer that CCP has been trying to put forward while being nice about it is "So!". So what if you created the wreck. Do you cry this much when someone kills your ship when you wonder into lo/nullsec? How, you created that ship, you earned the isk to buy it and then someone took it from you?
Same concept.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2011.04.24 09:15:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Neoexecutor
Quote: Do you know why I keep asking that question? Because you keep not answering it. Why should you get the salvage without any effort on your behalf? Why do you need to be paid more than you already are?
I don't want to salvage effortlessly and i don't want to be paid more. You keep putting words in people's mouth. What i want is that things i create would belong to me.
So this is your main, I guess?
Maybe not effortless, but without any competition. Having salvagers flagged for salvaging would only remove the salvager mini profession from the game. You would still have a bunch of people scanning your mission and salvaging/looting your wrecks just to have you shoot them.
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Iceman10117
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Posted - 2011.04.24 09:22:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Amarraz Missions are not risk free. That's spoken from the perspective, I'm guessing, of someone who's played the game for well over a year. I've lost more than a dozen ships in missions.
I think you're doing something wrong... I know i've done all kind of missions (1-5) and NEVER lost a ship...
Originally by: Amarraz
If it takes a ninja salvager 30 minutes to locate my mission wrecks (it took him considerably less), does that really outweigh even a 2% chance that I will lose a 500 million ship?
If you loose a 500 million ship, because of the rats shooting you, you're doing something wrong. But it's not ninja salvager's fault. It's yours! And you're doing a lot more ISK, than the ninja salvager. Enough so you can pay a 500 million ship.
Originally by: Amarraz I don't think so, and that's been my point from the beginning: with ninja salvaging, there is absolutely zero risk.
What happens if the ninja warps in and gets aggro from the rats?
Originally by: Amarraz Now the designers of EVE can state all they want that this is an intentional feature of the game, and a function of non-instanced missions, but that doesn't make it good game design.
No comments...
----------------------------------------------- If someone finds spelling mistakes, you can keep them.
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Captain Megadeath
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Posted - 2011.04.24 09:22:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Captain Megadeath on 24/04/2011 09:24:23
Originally by: Mag's I personally, would love to see ninja salvagers getting flagged. The flood of MR tears on these forums, would explode. (Pardon the pun)
Indeed........ lol
Not only that, but when the missionrunner loses said faction BS/Maruder with officer/faction fittings we can direct their vitrol towards HeIIfire11 and proudly say "Blame him. This change is all his fault because he couldnt grasp the fact that the wreck "you make" is NOT yours BY DESIGN, only the loot dropped is."
We will be up to our necks in delicious carebear tears.....
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails my name actually is short for catherine
Yeah, Katie Door perhaps...... lol
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Neoexecutor
Minmatar Skynet Technologies
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Posted - 2011.04.24 09:27:00 -
[179]
Quote: Then you need to stop claiming that they're stealing from you.
Is this some kind of lame threat over the internet. I believe what i believe in and i make claims based on those beliefs.
Quote: But that's just it: what you create already belongs to you. You didn't create the salvage, but you still want to claim it as yours. In other words, you want to get paid more, and you want the salvage to belong to you without any additional effort.
I created the material that makes the salvage. I should be the owner of this material. What i decide to do with it is irrelevant. Are you dense?
Quote: Yes, you created something that exist for salvagers to make use of, much like the ship manufacturer created ships for you to make use of. Why does creating that resource give you any say in how it is used? Should the ship manufacturers have any say in how you use the ships they created, or is it none of their business seeing as how the resource is actually there for you and you're the one who's actually making use of it?
Right because manufacturer just hands out his ships for free right?
Quote: Why should they? The wrecks aren't yours after all
Aaaaaand we're back to CCP SAYS SO AND IT'S THE TRUTH
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Lissian
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Posted - 2011.04.24 09:32:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Ivorr Bigun it was my ammo, my time, my standings and my acceptance of that mission that caused the salvage to exist in the first place.
As such its not too much to ask that stealing my salvage should flag the ninja.
To be fair, you created the wreck, and your loot inside it. It's only your salvage if you have trained the Salvaging skill, have a Salvager fitted to your ship and salvage the wreck you've made.
There is a very similar mechanic in WoW, if you'll forgive the analogy. With the Skinning profession, you could skin the corpses of beasts that other players killed. If you learned the profession, you could skin your own corpses. Of course, Skinning was not suitable for every class, and you were limited in WoW to only two professions, unlike EVE. Skinning a corpse of a beast another player killed did not flag you as a thief; salvaging a wreck of a ship another player destroyed should have the same outcome.
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