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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1175
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Posted - 2015.05.12 08:44:33 -
[61] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:Null is self-sufficent right?
Wrong. Racial moon goos prevent this, in the R8 and R32 spectrum. Cant find much tech outside the north which means no nanotransistors or fullerides, and the lack of Scandium/titanium/tingsten/cobalt outside of its racial regions means you cant make other race's T2 ~stuff~ without imports. So they would have to take risks like I do when I run relic sites in null and have to make it back to high-sec which is how I make 90% of my ISK?
Did you really just equate moving a covops frigate to a jump freighter?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
No. |
Benzmann
invalid Pirate Coalition
6
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 08:51:43 -
[62] - Quote
i support this.
but only if warp to 0 will be removed, and have it warp to 15km like in the old days. |
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
347
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 08:54:28 -
[63] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:
If you cannot fly proper tools for an activity and shy away from risk, you should not go where you cannot control the risk well. That's the same for hauling and exploration: If you cannot use a JF to bring in big volumes, you do not start it with a freighter and hope for the best. You stick to BR and wormholes to move small goods with easily manageable risk. Likewise, if you cannot fly a T3 for exploration and don't like the like the risk of unavoidable bubble camps, you do not go to Null sec. Or at least do not enter Null sec through the low/high sec entry choke-you-to-death points and instead use wormholes, stay local and do not explore in busy areas.
I use wormholes and covert ops frigates / Asteros to run relic sites in hositle null. The thrill is the knowledge that a Tengu or worse could decloak right on top of me at any moment. I want JF pilots to have a tenth of that excitement so they don't get bored and leave the game! I think the fun in this game is derived from hanging it out and getting away with it. Not being safe.
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
347
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Posted - 2015.05.12 08:56:46 -
[64] - Quote
Benzmann wrote:i support this.
but only if warp to 0 will be removed, and have it warp to 15km like in the old days.
JF's would really be screwed then because they could only warp within 15km of a station instead of warping to an instadock after jumping to their 99.9% safe ping. Why make it much more dangerous than my suggestion that would only increase the danger a tiny amount? |
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
347
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 08:58:30 -
[65] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:Null is self-sufficent right?
Wrong. Racial moon goos prevent this, in the R8 and R32 spectrum. Cant find much tech outside the north which means no nanotransistors or fullerides, and the lack of Scandium/titanium/tingsten/cobalt outside of its racial regions means you cant make other race's T2 ~stuff~ without imports. So they would have to take risks like I do when I run relic sites in null and have to make it back to high-sec which is how I make 90% of my ISK? Did you really just equate moving a covops frigate to a jump freighter? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha No.
No I am describing how my ISK making actvity involves risk unlike cyno'ing a jump freighter into the docking range of a station in low-sec. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2078
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 09:03:10 -
[66] - Quote
Why would you want to make living and trading in lowsec more difficult? Is it not risky enough for you already? For goodness sake, JFs cost 7 billion (with a b) isk. That is more than entire hangars of most lowsec pilots in a single ship.
They are plenty enough exciting already, even flying through highsec. Maybe you should try it some time.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1175
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 09:10:40 -
[67] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:afkalt wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:Null is self-sufficent right?
Wrong. Racial moon goos prevent this, in the R8 and R32 spectrum. Cant find much tech outside the north which means no nanotransistors or fullerides, and the lack of Scandium/titanium/tingsten/cobalt outside of its racial regions means you cant make other race's T2 ~stuff~ without imports. So they would have to take risks like I do when I run relic sites in null and have to make it back to high-sec which is how I make 90% of my ISK? Did you really just equate moving a covops frigate to a jump freighter? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha No. No I am describing how my ISK making actvity involves risk unlike cyno'ing a jump freighter into the docking range of a station in low-sec.
Unless you fail at covops, the risk is the same.
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
347
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Posted - 2015.05.12 09:13:33 -
[68] - Quote
afkalt wrote: Unless you fail at covops, the risk is the same.
Trying to get through a properly set up bubble camp in a covops frigate is much higher. No interdictors, interceptors, and insta-locking sensor boosted ships in a deep safe in low sec. |
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
347
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 09:15:19 -
[69] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Why would you want to make living and trading in lowsec more difficult? Is it not risky enough for you already? For goodness sake, JFs cost 7 billion (with a b) isk. That is more than entire hangars of most lowsec pilots in a single ship.
They are plenty enough exciting already, even flying through highsec. Maybe you should try it some time.
I believe it is but I fail to see how having to jump into a safe before warping to an instadock adds a ton more risk.
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1411
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 09:27:42 -
[70] - Quote
Let's see... LowSechNaya sees your cyno char arrive in system and warp to a save. LSH really is good at the game and knows that something is going to cyno. They probe the cyno ship in a matter of seconds and then sit there with a bomber. You cyno your ship in, the bomber decloaks and points the JF while the rest of their buddies come in. Your webber, of course, has been neutralized multiple times as s/he attempted to come to the system. So, even if you do not cyno in because of your webber losses, you already lost several dozens of millions there. And if you decide to be ballsy, you lose billions in addition. Their titan/super kill history speaks for itself to demonstrate what kind of risk you add to this.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
777
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 10:13:05 -
[71] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Zappity wrote:Why would you want to make living and trading in lowsec more difficult? Is it not risky enough for you already? For goodness sake, JFs cost 7 billion (with a b) isk. That is more than entire hangars of most lowsec pilots in a single ship.
They are plenty enough exciting already, even flying through highsec. Maybe you should try it some time. I believe it is but I fail to see how having to jump into a safe before warping to an instadock adds a ton more risk.
I think the problem here is you seem to have never had to do large scale logistics.
In order for you to make a fair and balanced assessment of your recommendations virtues I suggest you get your self a JF and give it a go for a few weeks, jumping at least a couple of times a week to and from HiSec and the same target system in Null. Make sure you stay 10km off the docking ring or at a safe when you cyno in and let us know how your proposal works out for you.
After all its only seems fair and reasonable that you make recommendations on a subject you actually have some experience of after all.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
347
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Posted - 2015.05.12 10:35:42 -
[72] - Quote
Samillian wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:Zappity wrote:Why would you want to make living and trading in lowsec more difficult? Is it not risky enough for you already? For goodness sake, JFs cost 7 billion (with a b) isk. That is more than entire hangars of most lowsec pilots in a single ship.
They are plenty enough exciting already, even flying through highsec. Maybe you should try it some time. I believe it is but I fail to see how having to jump into a safe before warping to an instadock adds a ton more risk. I think the problem here is you seem to have never had to do large scale logistics. In order for you to make a fair and balanced assessment of your recommendations virtues I suggest you get your self a JF and give it a go for a few weeks, jumping at least a couple of times a week to and from HiSec and the same target system in Null. Make sure you stay 10km off the docking ring or at a safe when you cyno in and let us know how your proposal works out for you. After all its only seems fair and reasonable that you make recommendations on a subject you actually have some experience of after all. Edit: TQ not SiSi or its not a fair test.
I can't fly a JF and have no urge to. Would you mind testing it for me? |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
777
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 10:52:43 -
[73] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Samillian wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:Zappity wrote:Why would you want to make living and trading in lowsec more difficult? Is it not risky enough for you already? For goodness sake, JFs cost 7 billion (with a b) isk. That is more than entire hangars of most lowsec pilots in a single ship.
They are plenty enough exciting already, even flying through highsec. Maybe you should try it some time. I believe it is but I fail to see how having to jump into a safe before warping to an instadock adds a ton more risk. I think the problem here is you seem to have never had to do large scale logistics. In order for you to make a fair and balanced assessment of your recommendations virtues I suggest you get your self a JF and give it a go for a few weeks, jumping at least a couple of times a week to and from HiSec and the same target system in Null. Make sure you stay 10km off the docking ring or at a safe when you cyno in and let us know how your proposal works out for you. After all its only seems fair and reasonable that you make recommendations on a subject you actually have some experience of after all. Edit: TQ not SiSi or its not a fair test. I can't fly a JF and have no urge to. Would you mind testing it for me?
No need, I know very well what will happen.
You on the other hand seem to be happy to make recommendations on a subject with very little or no first hand experience and therefore need to do the basic research before throwing out "good ideas" with nothing to really back them up.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
237
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 11:08:48 -
[74] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Well at the moment it isn't a problem. It would seriously LIMIT which systems I could stock if I didn't use JF.
Limitations suck, but there are consequences for imposing them on and/or removing them from a game. Always. What I wonder, and what the original poster wonders, is just: What are the consequences? Seems like a fair question.
Rivr Luzade wrote:Let's see... LowSechNaya sees your cyno char arrive in system and warp to a save. LSH really is good at the game and knows that something is going to cyno. They probe the cyno ship in a matter of seconds and then sit there with a bomber. You cyno your ship in, the bomber decloaks and points the JF while the rest of their buddies come in. Your webber, of course, has been neutralized multiple times as s/he attempted to come to the system. So, even if you do not cyno in because of your webber losses, you already lost several dozens of millions there. And if you decide to be ballsy, you lose billions in addition. Their titan/super kill history speaks for itself to demonstrate what kind of risk you add to this.
Lowsechnaya Sholupen and many other such groups are good at picking off the weak and inflexible. I sometimes wonder if maybe that is for the best.
Security is not a simple thing to maintain. It is harder if the majority of people who might be good at providing it are instead trying to destroy it. It is harder when the few remaining people who are capable of providing security have virtually no incentive to do so. It is harder when the people who need security are hellbent on going it alone, even going to the extreme of denigrating and obsoleting the role of protector.
Needing other players gives rise to all sorts of icky and vulnerable feelings like trust and gratitude and admiration . . . but maybe giving players in capital ships a perfect defense was a bad idea from a gameplay standpoint. |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
237
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 11:18:34 -
[75] - Quote
Samillian wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:Zappity wrote:Why would you want to make living and trading in lowsec more difficult? Is it not risky enough for you already? For goodness sake, JFs cost 7 billion (with a b) isk. That is more than entire hangars of most lowsec pilots in a single ship.
They are plenty enough exciting already, even flying through highsec. Maybe you should try it some time. I believe it is but I fail to see how having to jump into a safe before warping to an instadock adds a ton more risk. I think the problem here is you seem to have never had to do large scale logistics. In order for you to make a fair and balanced assessment of your recommendations virtues I suggest you get your self a JF and give it a go for a few weeks, jumping at least a couple of times a week to and from HiSec and the same target system in Null. Make sure you stay 10km off the docking ring or at a safe when you cyno in and let us know how your proposal works out for you. After all its only seems fair and reasonable that you make recommendations on a subject you actually have some experience of after all. Edit: TQ not SiSi or its not a fair test.
It sounds like if cynos were changed the way the OP suggested, your spaceship might be vulnerable to space violence when it is flying in space. Holy ****balls, Batman! That would be un-ac-ceptable. Jump freighters should NEVER die in unsecure space. Only in high sec. Somebody kill this noob a jump freighter to learn him. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2078
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 11:30:53 -
[76] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:It sounds like if cynos were changed the way the OP suggested, your spaceship might be vulnerable to space violence when it is flying in space. Holy ****balls, Batman! That would be un-ac-ceptable. Jump freighters should NEVER die in unsecure space. Only in high sec. Somebody kill this noob a jump freighter to learn him. It sounds to me like you should get a jump freighter before you continue your ill-informed nonsense. Plenty of jump freighters die outside of highsec. Search for Freight Club.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Hicksimus
Xion Limited Resonance.
612
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 12:26:18 -
[77] - Quote
Every time somebody asks for CCP to make something easier the vets yell "EvE is hard, HTFU!"....every time CCP goes near the easy buttons exclusively available to the vets the vets cry and shitpost the suggestion out of existence.
Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you?
Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
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Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
238
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Posted - 2015.05.12 12:34:13 -
[78] - Quote
Should I believe:
Zappity wrote: Plenty of jump freighters die outside of highsec.
Or should I believe:
Xequecal wrote:The Eve economy pretty much depends on Freighters and Jump Freighters being 99.9% SAFE.
Arya Regnar wrote:I am a hellbent advocate on destruction and content creation, but even I see the need for SAFE JF jumps.
Nasar Vyron wrote:Some areas of logistics need to be nearly RISK-FREE.
Rivr Luzade wrote:When I want big chunks of assets moved, I EXPECT TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS ON MY OWN and not with someone else's unreliable help.
Are jump freighters 99.9% risk free ships that you can operate without help or does the fact that a paltry number of them dying in low sec to a group who is specialized at killing them evidence that they are 0.01% dangerous? Hmmm . . . |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1412
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 14:43:22 -
[79] - Quote
On my own means that I need to use 3 accounts at least. . On my own means that I do not trust anyone to web my freighters and that I have to do it with my own chars in order to keep them 99.9% safe. On my own means that I do not trust anyone to light a cyno for my JF/Carrier/Dread/other things without checking myself where the cyno is and in most cases I have to the cynos myself, which means a lot of chars, in order to keep my belongings 99.9% safe. This is "on my own". No JF works in its intended ways without help as for the above reasons. Where this help comes from, whether it's unreliable, untrustworthy strangers or my own assets of a trusted community, does not matter at all.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
105
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 15:28:09 -
[80] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:
No I am describing how my ISK making actvity involves risk unlike cyno'ing a jump freighter into the docking range of a station in low-sec.
If JF jumps to low-/nullsec stations really would be so safe, why are there so many kills on zkillboard with Jump Freighters?
To me it simply looks like you never have flown a capital ship before because otherwise you wouldn't compare the "risk" of flying a cloaky ship which costs less than 200 mio isk (incl. fit), a ship which can defend itself and even attack/kill other ships with the risk of flying a sitting duck aka "jump freighter" worth 7 billion, without the possibility to defend itself and slow as hell when it comes to warping, aligning or generally moving in space. Please also forget the point about webbing. Lighting a cyno in a system attracts much more people than enetering a system through a gate. A cyno is a clear indicator of fun and a nice fat killmail for every pvp player and typically you have visitors at your place within 15 seconds. Also don't forget that you would have to find new cyno spots for every jump and can't reuse existing ones. Nothing is easier to wait with a cloaked camper 5k off your standard spot and then launch a warp disruptor probe.
Making it impossible to dock immediately in LS/NS would kill the economy in these areas, especially the ones which don't have a direct and fast connection to Highsec. Only big allies could afford the required defense backbone to bring in goods with JF while any small group would fail and have to move back to High sec. Black Frog would have to cancel their flights or raise the costs and any free trader currently seeding ls/ns nullsec stations could go back to HS.
If you mention BR as replacements then you never had a look at the cargo size of goods. Feel free to tell me how you want to store bigger ships in a BR or how many runs you plan to do. A BR typically has around 8k cargo space, a JF around 300k. If you want to do 38 instead of a single run to bring in goods - well well.
If you come up with Wormhole routes as replacement then feel free to do it for a while. I have done it and can ensure you that after some weeks you just don't want to spend 2-3 hours scanning down a route from Null to Highsec just to bring in a cargo load which fits into an Orca.
So in short: NO. |
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Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
105
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 15:36:34 -
[81] - Quote
[edit] wrong button hit. grrrr |
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
349
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 15:47:23 -
[82] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:On my own means that I need to use 3 accounts at least. . On my own means that I do not trust anyone to web my freighters and that I have to do it with my own chars in order to keep them 99.9% safe. On my own means that I do not trust anyone to light a cyno for my JF/Carrier/Dread/other things without checking myself where the cyno is and in most cases I have to the cynos myself, which means a lot of chars, in order to keep my belongings 99.9% safe. This is "on my own". No JF works in its intended ways without help as for the above reasons. Where this help comes from, whether it's unreliable, untrustworthy strangers or my own assets of a trusted community, does not matter at all. "On my own" does not mean that I want total safety. This proposal, however, is beyond all tenable precariousness. Harrison Tato wrote:I use wormholes and covert ops frigates / Asteros to run relic sites in hositle null. The thrill is the knowledge that a Tengu or worse could decloak right on top of me at any moment. I want JF pilots to have a tenth of that excitement so they don't get bored and leave the game! I think the fun in this game is derived from hanging it out and getting away with it. Not being safe. Are you nuts? Have you even tried to move a JF through Niarja or Uedama for once when there are some bumpers around. Can you even imagine what kind of adrenaline rushes through your veins when you see that the bumper picks up speed and locks you? Or when your webber is out of range you just barely make it to web your JF in warp before the first bump lands? Or when all of a sudden Dreads appear behind your JF on the undock and bump you, both of you knowing full well that the undock range is just a couple of kilometers. Or when a titan warps in and you just sit there, hammering the Warp Abort button while the ominous glow of the DD builds up and you just pray that there's no lag. Or when you see a couple of red flashy pirates sitting on the station you want to cyno in and you know what they are up to (bumping your ship off the station as soon as it cynos in or when it tries to warp to the high sec gate) and you do not do anything and just let them rot on the undock. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about as you clearly have never experienced this kind of thrill. I have and I can tell you, it is better than anything else in this game. I don't care if I lose a 300M Ishtar/Eagle or a 600M Legion/Machariel in a fleet fight; however, I do absolutely feel a horrendous blood rush when I move freighters with double or high single digit billions through space, or JF through systems with known titan/super pilots where you need to warp to gates and kind of expect these big toys to uncloak and start pounding you.
The only risk in this game is ISK and pride. You losing your JF hits me as hard as me losing an Astero. It is all relative to the assets you have in the game. My entire experience with JF's is seeming them pop into existance at the undock of LS stations in almost empty systems. It lookes pretty safe from where I am at.
Can't you just avoid Niarja and Uedama in a Jump Freigter? Isn't that what they are for? |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1412
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 16:18:21 -
[83] - Quote
Because we make it so that it is safe. Being good at the game is now a punishable crime?
Uh, and who pays for that jump to 2 cynos? Who pays me for the fuel? For the effort that it is to move the cynos in place, as well as the webber? Who pays my extra expenses when I move a CC through there? Who pays for the extra fuel when I want to seed the markets in my home? People like you? For people like you even adding 10% to the Jita price is too much to money. People like you love to complain about prices in Null sec being too expensive and that we logistics people shouldn't add fuel, transport cost on top of our profit. People like you would rather see us move CCs for 10k/Jump through the entire clusters and thank you that you gave me the opportunity to work for you. As stated before, you have absolutely no idea whatsoever what you are talking about.
This nerf to any cyno related movement is not needed. /End of Discussion.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
105
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 16:18:33 -
[84] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:[ The only risk in this game is ISK and pride. You losing your JF hits me as hard as me losing an Astero. It is all relative to the assets you have in the game. My entire experience with JF's is seeming them pop into existance at the undock of LS stations in almost empty systems. It lookes pretty safe from where I am at.
Can't you just avoid Niarja and Uedama in a Jump Freigter? Isn't that what they are for?
Your response proves that you have no clue about capital ships which explains your feature request.
Niarja/Uedama are off topic because Highsec. Check Hothomouh or Vehan instead. Both low secs with several JF kills despite the fact that they can immediately dock.
Please explain me why killing my JF (worth 7 billion) hits me "as hard" as killing an Astero worth 200 mio(?). There is a clear discrepancy in the isk involved here - 6.8 billion more. It only would be identically hard if I would be able to replace it as easy as I can replace an Astero - which takes me one evening exploration in nullsec.
People only do things If the reward is worth the risk (here: 7 billion loss). So JF would have to become much cheaper or the prices for the goods must go up in any area outside Highsec. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2906
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Posted - 2015.05.12 17:13:42 -
[85] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Mayhaw Morgan wrote:It sounds like if cynos were changed the way the OP suggested, your spaceship might be vulnerable to space violence when it is flying in space. Holy ****balls, Batman! That would be un-ac-ceptable. Jump freighters should NEVER die in unsecure space. Only in high sec. Somebody kill this noob a jump freighter to learn him. It sounds to me like you should get a jump freighter before you continue your ill-informed nonsense. Plenty of jump freighters die outside of highsec. Search for Freight Club.
Or just peruse zkillboard under jump freighters. On the front page for Rhea's at zkillboard, there are 21 Rhea kills in low or null sec out of a total of 50 kills. Seems reasonable to me.
Oh and Mayhew Morgan is wrong....again.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2908
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Posted - 2015.05.12 17:19:41 -
[86] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:Should I believe:
Are jump freighters 99.9% risk free ships that you can operate without help or does the fact that a paltry number of them dying in low sec to a group who is specialized at killing them evidence that they are 0.01% dangerous? Hmmm . . .
First off that was somebody's subjective probability assessment, not some number carved in stone somewhere. It is nobody else's fault if you are foolish when it comes to probabilities and are unable to evaluate other people's statements.
And here we are again...Mayhew Morgan...wrong yet again.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
238
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Posted - 2015.05.12 18:23:23 -
[87] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Or just peruse zkillboard under jump freighters. On the front page for Rhea's at zkillboard, there are 21 Rhea kills in low or null sec out of a total of 50 kills.
Or, in other words, most of the jump freighter kills take place where jump freighters cannot jump to 0km of a station. Yeah, that seems like a reasonable result of the game mechanics to me as well.
Teckos Pech wrote:First off that was somebody's subjective probability assessment, not some number carved in stone somewhere. It is nobody else's fault if you are foolish when it comes to probabilities and are unable to evaluate other people's statements.
"Are jump freighters 99.9% risk free ships that you can operate without help or does the fact that a paltry number of them dying in low sec to a group who is specialized at killing them evidence that they are 0.01% dangerous?"
^ this not mean what it say. It mean jump freighter safe if pilot play good EVE. Jump freighter die if pilot play bad EVE. That not fun if you not jump freighter pilot. If you want kill jump freighter, you can only do if pilot stupid or make accident. I sorry to use big words for you not understand.
I hope that clears it up for you. BTW, one of those quoted was a Goon. Does your Goon overlord know you are disagreeing with him? I wouldn't want you to get beat or lose your space rations or suffer other puishment for disagreeing with him. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
575
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 19:00:56 -
[88] - Quote
I agree with Mayhaw Morgan.
It is the same issue of supers being moved solo. Move it like that and prepare to get rekt.
Be Adviced The Garade Door is Now Closing. Closing. Closing. Shut.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
105
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Posted - 2015.05.12 19:17:55 -
[89] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote: It mean jump freighter safe if pilot play good EVE. Jump freighter die if pilot play bad EVE. That not fun if you not jump freighter pilot. If you want kill jump freighter, you can only do if pilot stupid or make accident. I sorry to use big words for you not understand.
This rule applies to every ship type. If you know how to use it, then there is no or only a risk to loose it. You also almost can-¦t loose a properly fit BR in lowsec or a travel raptor. So why punish the ones who know how to use their ships?
I want to add something to the last response: concerning " only about isk and pride and a JF loss hits as hard as the loss of an Astero":
Let-¦s assume you earn the same amount isk/hour when flying an Astero and doing some jobs than when using a JF to haul goods. I already mentioned that it takes (me) only one evening running explorations to replace a lost Astero (I earn around 200 mio isk/evening doing this). To get an idea how hard a JF loss hits you only have to compare how much more a JF costs - around 23 times. To replace a JF I have to run explorations for 23 days. Use this info and transfer it to the Astero. Imagine you would have to play for 23 evenings to replace your Asterowhen you loose it and then think about the idea of jumping around with this ship in unsecured nullsec. Now you know how it feels when when you move around a capital. Add the issues of such a ship (no defense, no warp core stabs, no cloak, no agility, sloooow speed and a huge size which makes targeting, scanning down and hitting it very easy), top it with the need of using a cyno which is visible for anyone in the system and can be warped at immediately and there you are.
And you really want to make this even harder? I can predict that in such a case almost everyone will stop using it. At least I wouldn-¦t risk 7 or even more billions (because JF are used to haul goods which also cost money) if I would loose one of them every 2-3 travel to nullsec, at least not when the income is as low as it is at the moment. I would continue it only if the income would be much higher which would result in much higher prices for the transported goods. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
983
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Posted - 2015.05.12 21:59:51 -
[90] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:The Eve economy pretty much depends on Freighters and Jump Freighters being 99.9% safe. Do you want everything in the game to cost 10x as much? If you make these ships killable, that's exactly what will happen.
I think you mean the goon (fill in any large null alliance here) memberships base and bottom line depend on JF safety. Get your head out of you patoot and you'll notice that most of eve does not revolve around null space.
Quit blathering.
Feel free to put some maths behind 10x more expensive. I need the laugh.
JF fear is pretty tasty. I think I like it. |
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