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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
11802
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Posted - 2014.10.28 23:57:02 -
[1] - Quote
Hey everyone. We announced this new rig at EVE Vegas but I haven't made an official feedback thread yet, so here it is.
Short version is: we're adding a rig that slows you down quite a lot, doubles your mass and improves your agility a bit. It will also decrease warp speed as a drawback that can be reduced through the Astronautics Rigging skill.
We expect that this will have a few somewhat niche uses right away for miners and residents of wormholes (especially lower-class holes) and that players can come up with more creative ways to use it over time.
The rig will exist in all size variations, T1 only for now. It will have similar build costs to other T1 astronautics rigs. It will fall within the Astronautics Rigging section and use that skill.
It will be limited to one fitted per ship.
Stats are: 25 Calibration +100% Mass -55% Inertia -75% Max Velocity
Drawback of -10% Warp Speed (reduced by the Astronautics Rigging skill).
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1202
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Posted - 2014.10.29 00:01:28 -
[2] - Quote
First, 'all sizes, does include capital, yes?
Second, do you plan to potentially introduce a t2 variant in the future?
I cant see the use on this for many ships, but I could really see this being useful for my rorqual for getting in/out of asteroid belts in tighter gaps, and being less prone to bumps by bad miners warping in/out. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2499
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Posted - 2014.10.29 00:03:58 -
[3] - Quote
Iteresting concept, not sure what I think of these at the moment.
-
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
594
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Posted - 2014.10.29 00:05:58 -
[4] - Quote
So, this is now mandatory on all bridging Titans, right?
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1568
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Posted - 2014.10.29 00:26:20 -
[5] - Quote
Does the effect stack against inertia stabs or nanos? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
875
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Posted - 2014.10.29 00:38:22 -
[6] - Quote
is this to help people run away from pvp? |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
296
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Posted - 2014.10.29 00:42:43 -
[7] - Quote
These + hyperspacial and or ascendancy on capitals...mmm
I dont know that math too, but 55% may be a bit much. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1568
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Posted - 2014.10.29 00:50:29 -
[8] - Quote
Also what's the net effect on agility? I'm not to verses on the math. |
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
634
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Posted - 2014.10.29 00:50:42 -
[9] - Quote
I will return when you have them seeded on the Test server.
As the industrial, meta version of myself, I also need to know if you plan to make T2, ever and if you do will the parts remain the same or will you pull a switch out like you did with Liquid Cooled Electronics?
T1 LCE Damaged ANN Charred Micro circuit Conductive Polymer
T2 LCE ANN Power Circuit (10x the cost of Micro Circuits) Conductive Thermoplastic |
Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1202
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Posted - 2014.10.29 00:52:41 -
[10] - Quote
TheMercenaryKing wrote:These + hyperspacial and or ascendancy on capitals...mmm
I dont know that math too, but 55% may be a bit much.
With the way that mass affects ship agility, I believe it's an overall heavy agility nerf, the +55% agility is to just help counteract some of the warpout problems |
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Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
386
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Posted - 2014.10.29 00:58:27 -
[11] - Quote
Astronautic rigs cause a decrease in armor HP, CCP, not warp speed.
-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á "LIVE FAST DIE."
- traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
114
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Posted - 2014.10.29 01:22:43 -
[12] - Quote
Wait, this is coming in Phoebe? I thought this was for Rhea.
Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
114
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Posted - 2014.10.29 01:29:10 -
[13] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:TheMercenaryKing wrote:These + hyperspacial and or ascendancy on capitals...mmm
I dont know that math too, but 55% may be a bit much. With the way that mass affects ship agility,EDIT: It should be what, a 10% agility buff or so? Yes. 0.45*2 = 0.9. 1/0.9 = 0.111... so yeah, this will have the effect of increasing agility by about 11%
(Smart) miners will particularly enjoy the -75% velocity, as it'll allow them to stay fully aligned while mining for much longer before getting out of range.
Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
618
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Posted - 2014.10.29 01:29:17 -
[14] - Quote
I'm ok with this. Bumping will continue.
You should fix the jump changes by the way, the blops nerf is still death to them even with 50% modifier.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Finde learth
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
66
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Posted - 2014.10.29 02:15:52 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We expect that this will have a few somewhat niche uses right away for miners and residents of wormholes (especially lower-class holes) and that players can come up with more creative ways to use it over time.
For miner? Are you Sure ? You must be kidding. |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
114
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Posted - 2014.10.29 02:19:04 -
[16] - Quote
Finde learth wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:
We expect that this will have a few somewhat niche uses right away for miners and residents of wormholes (especially lower-class holes) and that players can come up with more creative ways to use it over time.
For miner? Are you Sure ? You must be kidding. No, he's not. Not more than two posts above you I explained why. Maybe you should read.
Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
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Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
1293
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Posted - 2014.10.29 03:01:22 -
[17] - Quote
Tinker rig :3
~
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Kromarx
AltHole
9
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Posted - 2014.10.29 03:35:20 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Stats are: +100% Mass -55% Inertia
From some physics site:
Quote:Mass is that quantity that is solely dependent upon the inertia of an object. The more inertia that an object has, the more mass that it has.
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Galphii
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
286
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Posted - 2014.10.29 03:44:46 -
[19] - Quote
Is the limit on one per ship necessary? Could the bonuses be roughly divided to allow three to be fitted with improvements over the current stats (say, 150% mass increase)? Arbitrary restrictions like 'limit of 1 per ship' make my brain itch A pity freighters can't use these too because bumping 'mechanics' are ridiculous and archaic.
X
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
119
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Posted - 2014.10.29 03:56:28 -
[20] - Quote
Kromarx wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Stats are: +100% Mass -55% Inertia From some physics site: Quote:Mass is that quantity that is solely dependent upon the inertia of an object. The more inertia that an object has, the more mass that it has. Ships in EVE have this really wacky sci-fi ability called antigravity which can alter inertia independently of mass. The inertia modifier of a ship is basically a multiplier that expresses how much of a ship's mass still resists acceleration in response to a force. That's the attribute which he's expressing simply as inertia.
Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
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Umino Iruka
ACME-INC
0
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Posted - 2014.10.29 03:57:16 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We announced this new rig at EVE Vegas but I haven't made an official feedback thread yet, so here it is.
Short version is: we're adding a rig that slows you down quite a lot, doubles your mass and improves your agility a bit. It will also decrease warp speed as a drawback that can be reduced through the Astronautics Rigging skill.
We expect that this will have a few somewhat niche uses right away for miners and residents of wormholes (especially lower-class holes) and that players can come up with more creative ways to use it over time.
The rig will exist in all size variations, T1 only for now. It will have similar build costs to other T1 astronautics rigs. It will fall within the Astronautics Rigging section and use that skill.
It will be limited to one fitted per ship.
Stats are: 25 Calibration +100% Mass -55% Inertia -75% Max Velocity
Drawback of -10% Warp Speed (reduced by the Astronautics Rigging skill).
I understand why someone would want this on a capital (a ship that barely moves as it is) but even battleships can achieve decent velocity numbers with an MWD - I just don't see where would this be used, other than capital ships - not to mention it's bad enough for capitals who want to jump to a POS with the recent changes...
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Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1202
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Posted - 2014.10.29 04:01:25 -
[22] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Finde learth wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:
We expect that this will have a few somewhat niche uses right away for miners and residents of wormholes (especially lower-class holes) and that players can come up with more creative ways to use it over time.
For miner? Are you Sure ? You must be kidding. No, he's not. Not more than two posts above you I explained why. Maybe you should read.
Or you know, the first post after the devpost lol.
Fussing around with my fitting a bit, I think I probably COULD get these on my hulks, and rorq, and still be able to tank the spawns with the hulks just fine. hulks would bounce around less, get out of position less often, and thered be less getting hung up on asteroids... |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1568
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Posted - 2014.10.29 04:29:49 -
[23] - Quote
Umino Iruka wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We announced this new rig at EVE Vegas but I haven't made an official feedback thread yet, so here it is.
Short version is: we're adding a rig that slows you down quite a lot, doubles your mass and improves your agility a bit. It will also decrease warp speed as a drawback that can be reduced through the Astronautics Rigging skill.
We expect that this will have a few somewhat niche uses right away for miners and residents of wormholes (especially lower-class holes) and that players can come up with more creative ways to use it over time.
The rig will exist in all size variations, T1 only for now. It will have similar build costs to other T1 astronautics rigs. It will fall within the Astronautics Rigging section and use that skill.
It will be limited to one fitted per ship.
Stats are: 25 Calibration +100% Mass -55% Inertia -75% Max Velocity
Drawback of -10% Warp Speed (reduced by the Astronautics Rigging skill). I understand why someone would want this on a capital (a ship that barely moves as it is) but even battleships can achieve decent velocity numbers with an MWD - I just don't see where would this be used, other than capital ships - not to mention it's bad enough for capitals who want to jump to a POS with the recent changes... Its essentially a 10% increase in agility (if a previous poster is correct). I can see plenty of highsec miners wanting to use these in defense of bumping (effectiveness not guaranteed). It also means some capitals may use these to get bumped out of position less often (orca). I'm curious to see if the effect on de-blobbing is going to be substantial or not.
Basically anyone who values agility vastly over speed. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
183
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Posted - 2014.10.29 04:32:14 -
[24] - Quote
WTB these for starbursting and dreadbuchet loads.
Yes, I do incursions. Find out more here
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
154
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Posted - 2014.10.29 05:03:44 -
[25] - Quote
Looks interesting. Where do you obtain the blueprints, is it available from the market or do you need to collect bpcs from sites?
This post was rated "C" for capsuleer.
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Kaldfir Gongukaslan
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
2
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Posted - 2014.10.29 07:21:43 -
[26] - Quote
This seems sort of out-of-place for a rig. I can't think of a rig currently in the game that drastically changes a ship this way. Feels more like a high-slot in terms of how drastically it affects the behavior of the hull (seems on-par with cloaks).
I'm not a game designer and I'm not claiming it would see more/less use like that. Just feels weirdly strong for a rig. |
Saisin
State War Academy Caldari State
163
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Posted - 2014.10.29 07:23:05 -
[27] - Quote
Sweet... Added to my shopping list post-phoebe!
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope
http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/2014/05/ok-now-im-betting-man.html
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Scheulagh Santorine
The Math Department
18
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Posted - 2014.10.29 08:08:45 -
[28] - Quote
I can see that I will want to add a section to my notes to make clear the effect on time-to-warp (Ship Motion in EVE Online).
In EVE, Mass and Inertia are interchangeable for purposes of bumping, but the increase in mass will deteriorate performance with any kind of MWD or AB modules. In a nutshell, this will make combat maneuvers ... difficult. For manual orbits, the maximum angular velocity that can be achieved when fitting this module compared to not fitting this module will be roughly half.
On the other hand, time to warp will half what it would have been without the module. (note, I did this calculation asymptotically instead of solving for the inverse of the v(t) equation.)
S. Santorine
============================== I used to shoot things, now I do math.
S. Santorine
Writings on some formal methods in EvE-Online: Ship Motion in EVE Online
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Axloth Okiah
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
532
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Posted - 2014.10.29 09:03:27 -
[29] - Quote
Making mining safer? Also how about mass-reducing ('Higgs Sail') rig?
W-Space Realtor
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Vulfen
Snuff Box
151
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Posted - 2014.10.29 09:14:03 -
[30] - Quote
Is anyone able to explain, what is the net gain by using these to agility compared to a Low Friction T2 rig? |
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Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1202
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Posted - 2014.10.29 09:31:07 -
[31] - Quote
Scheulagh Santorine wrote:I can see that I will want to add a section to my notes to make clear the effect on time-to-warp ( Ship Motion in EVE Online). In EVE, Mass and Inertia are interchangeable for purposes of bumping, but the increase in mass will deteriorate performance with any kind of MWD or AB modules. In a nutshell, this will make combat maneuvers ... difficult. For manual orbits, the maximum angular velocity that can be achieved when fitting this module compared to not fitting this module will be roughly half. On the other hand, time to warp will half what it would have been without the module. (note, I did this calculation asymptotically instead of solving for the inverse of the v(t) equation.) S. Santorine
You're a fat turd.
No really though I just wanted to say hi. Also, you sure about the getting into warp in half the time crap? I didn't think it'd be nearly that much faster, but that'd be sweet. Will have to hit the test server (once it is seeded...) |
Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1202
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Posted - 2014.10.29 09:36:42 -
[32] - Quote
Vulfen wrote:Is anyone able to explain, what is the net gain by using these to agility compared to a Low Friction T2 rig?
Low friction nozzle joint II: Agility increase 14% Armor amount decrease 10% reduced to 5% @ astro rigging 5 75 Calibration
Higgs-Boson GodRig I: Mass increase 100%
- Significantly less speed bonus for propulsion mods
- Less affect from being bumped
- Less Harassment from tumblr landwhales
Net agility increase 11% (3% less) -75% max velocity (get into warp in shorter distances, can align to warp speed at much slower speeds) Warp speed decrease 10%, reduced to 5% @ astro rigging 5 25 Calibration |
Amy Farrah FowIer
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2014.10.29 09:42:43 -
[33] - Quote
1. This wont work! "bumping" will now be more effective, because you wont get back in rage with -75% Max Velocity! (for example: you will not be bumped 60km, you will be bumped 30-40km and need the x4 time back to the asteroid)
2. This Rig will be used for WH-cycling - I am sure it will.
But bumping miners is clearly harrasment and my suggestion is the following:
Give every Exhumer/Mining Barge ect. the possibility to anhor in space. 30s time to go in "anhor mode" (you cant activate modules while anchoring your ship, you cant warp after you anchored your ship, so you have to unanchor before you will warp out.
With this changes you cant use this rig for WH-cycle! |
Samsara Nolte
Sternenschauer AG Random Thinking
20
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Posted - 2014.10.29 09:43:36 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We announced this new rig at EVE Vegas but I haven't made an official feedback thread yet, so here it is.
Short version is: we're adding a rig that slows you down quite a lot, doubles your mass and improves your agility a bit. It will also decrease warp speed as a drawback that can be reduced through the Astronautics Rigging skill.
We expect that this will have a few somewhat niche uses right away for miners and residents of wormholes (especially lower-class holes) and that players can come up with more creative ways to use it over time.
The rig will exist in all size variations, T1 only for now. It will have similar build costs to other T1 astronautics rigs. It will fall within the Astronautics Rigging section and use that skill.
It will be limited to one fitted per ship.
Stats are: 25 Calibration +100% Mass -55% Inertia -75% Max Velocity
Drawback of -10% Warp Speed (reduced by the Astronautics Rigging skill).
Looking at this from the perspective of a Wormhole-Resident - what i-¦m intrested to learn is, does this 100% mass addition stack with activated propulsion mods.
For example and 100MN Afterburner fitted on an Orca adds 50Million to the mass of the Orca resulting in a mass of 300Million - so with this rig fitted will an Orca with activated 100MN Afterburner have a mass of 250Million*2 +50Million = 550Million or will it be (250Million + 50Million)*2 = 600Million. |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
762
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Posted - 2014.10.29 09:49:20 -
[35] - Quote
Now that I'm thinking about it...
Mass is the main component when it comes to bumping efficiency, right ?
So an exhumer with an Anchor rig fitted will be more difficult to bump.
What if the bumper, instead of using a Machariel, uses a Machariel with an Anchor rig too ?
The effect is basically nullified if I'm not mistaken.
And if the bumper uses a Machariel with an anchor rig against a miner without an anchor rig...that will get funny very fast |
Amy Farrah FowIer
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2014.10.29 09:51:27 -
[36] - Quote
@SMT008
... -75% Max Velocity (if rig is fitted) |
Galphii
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
286
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Posted - 2014.10.29 10:05:27 -
[37] - Quote
Amy Farrah FowIer wrote:1. This wont work! "bumping" will now be more effective, because you wont get back in rage with -75% Max Velocity! (for example: you will not be bumped 60km, you will be bumped 30-40km and need the x4 time back to the asteroid)
2. This Rig will be used for WH-cycling - I am sure it will.
But bumping miners is clearly harrasment and my suggestion is the following:
Give every Exhumer/Mining Barge ect. the possibility to anhor in space. 30s time to go in "anhor mode" (you cant activate modules while anchoring your ship, you cant warp after you anchored your ship, so you have to unanchor before you will warp out.
With this changes you cant use this rig for WH-cycle! If the point of this is to reduce bumping then this is a much better idea than a rig. Then we just need to come up with a solution for freighter bumping.
X
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McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
0
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Posted - 2014.10.29 10:06:31 -
[38] - Quote
First thought: Why you nerf my playstyle CCP? Second thought: Procurer & Skiff pilots using these rigs and actually ruining their ability to be difficult to bump. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1354
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Posted - 2014.10.29 10:15:06 -
[39] - Quote
Nice rig
Signature Tanking - Best Tanking
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Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1202
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Posted - 2014.10.29 10:15:51 -
[40] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:Now that I'm thinking about it... Mass is the main component when it comes to bumping efficiency, right ? So an exhumer with an Anchor rig fitted will be more difficult to bump. What if the bumper, instead of using a Machariel, uses a Machariel with an Anchor rig too ? The effect is basically nullified if I'm not mistaken. And if the bumper uses a Machariel with an anchor rig against a miner without an anchor rig...that will get funny very fast
Bumping machariel would have to be mentally challenged to use the anchor rig. Sure, it increases your mass, but it cuts your velocity by 75%. So, you have double the mass, but less effect from your MWD given the higher mass, that alone, would mean the effect isn't nullified, but stack the 75% speed penalty on, and all of a sudden the mach is bumping for something like 1/5 of his original effect. |
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Reppyk
The Black Shell
696
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Posted - 2014.10.29 10:24:46 -
[41] - Quote
What a terrible idea.
It's already extremely hard to catch the growing invasion that are supercarriers assigning fighters from the edge of a forcefield. Now you can't really bump them.
I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK.
I AM A LOWSEC GANKER, HIGHSEC SCUM, NULLSEC BASTARD, WORMHOLE INVADER.
Welcome to, welcome to, welcome to my scramble. GÖÑ
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Yana Hendar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.10.29 11:10:59 -
[42] - Quote
So, an anti bumping rig... surely this should be a lowslot module, like the other hull stuff (or maybe just a cap-sized rig). If miners don't want to be bumped, or they want to avoid PVP outside of hisec, make them lose an MLU or stabs.
CCP Fozzie wrote: +100% Mass -55% Inertia
^ Science was never my strong point, but that makes zero sense. |
Galphii
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
286
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Posted - 2014.10.29 11:19:15 -
[43] - Quote
Yana Hendar wrote:So, an anti bumping rig... surely this should be a lowslot module, like the other hull stuff (or maybe just a cap-sized rig). If miners don't want to be bumped, or they want to avoid PVP outside of hisec, make them lose an MLU or stabs.
Definitely makes more sense for it to be a low slot module than a rig. Freighter rigs went through the same process
X
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Anthar Thebess
780
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Posted - 2014.10.29 12:13:24 -
[44] - Quote
Nice stuff for : - ship closing WH ( Full plates + MWD 100 + 100% mass yeah! ) - 'Shuttle' Interceptors ( They fly gate to gate after all ) - Dedicated T1 Haulers ( they don't need speed to much if not on AFK mode) - T2 Transport Ships ( even faster align time) - T3 Nullified and Stabbed Transport Cruisers ( zuummm! between gate camps) - Capitals using gates for travel - faster align time! , one rig will be mandatory!
Just few holes....
oh , and yes , super stuff for miners....
New Gate Connections in EVE!
Support idea for new gates that will make some more places to thrive.
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Nyalnara
AdAstra. Beach Club Red Whines.
3
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Posted - 2014.10.29 12:19:46 -
[45] - Quote
Samsara Nolte wrote:Looking at this from the perspective of a Wormhole-Resident - what i-¦m intrested to learn is, does this 100% mass addition stack with activated propulsion mods.
That. Usually i use a Maller with a 100MN MWD, and i'd like to know if that would allow me to reduce low-class Wh faster.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
11862
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Posted - 2014.10.29 12:38:37 -
[46] - Quote
The mass multiplier is applied after additive effects such as plates and prop modules.
It's also worth noting that if all you care about is align time, Low Friction Nozzle Joints will be more effective. However if you want align time combined with lower speed or higher mass, these are the rigs for you.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Syrias Bizniz
Zebra Corp The Bastion
362
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Posted - 2014.10.29 13:31:25 -
[47] - Quote
Not sure on this one:
How exactly does Mass manipulate Isotope-Consumption? I remember to NOT FCKING HAVE MY PROPMOD TURNED ON WHEN ON BRIDGES! |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
297
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 13:42:06 -
[48] - Quote
OK this completely went over my head.
a 100% increase in mass per each rig. What will this do about forcing wormholes to collapse? Sure it removed a ships ability to slow-boat it to the wormhole, but with the recent changes, most caps will warp off and back again. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
649
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Posted - 2014.10.29 13:54:07 -
[49] - Quote
These will be great for rage-rolling wormholes.
I could see hauler Orcas using these for the bump resistance. Couple the additional mass from the rig plus the 10 second align you can get from a MWD and they'd be pretty hard to bump.
I'm not sure how useful these would be for miners in a belt through. The bump resistance comes at a heavy cost to maneuverability. "Slowboating" will be redefined, and if you do managed to get bumped you're pretty well hosed.
There are some other potential uses rolling around in my head as well. Could be...interesting....
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content.
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
649
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Posted - 2014.10.29 13:54:53 -
[50] - Quote
TheMercenaryKing wrote:OK this completely went over my head.
a 100% increase in mass per each rig. What will this do about forcing wormholes to collapse? Sure it removed a ships ability to slow-boat it to the wormhole, but with the recent changes, most caps will warp off and back again. Limit one rig per ship.
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content.
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Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent
857
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Posted - 2014.10.29 14:08:25 -
[51] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:Not sure on this one:
How exactly does Mass manipulate Isotope-Consumption? I remember to NOT FCKING HAVE MY PROPMOD TURNED ON WHEN ON BRIDGES!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but iirc only jump portals consider mass of teleported ship when determining fuel consumption. So jump bridges, titan bridges, and blops portals. Jump drive capable ships would simply use their own jump drive which only considers distance into fuel consumption calculations.
The ships one would take through a bridge are not typically those that would benefit from having this rig, but they certainly aren't limited in that regard.
tl;dr: Higgs-rigged freighters will use twice the LO/stront if they take a jump/titan bridge. Blockade Runners certainly don't need them. Caps will simply jump to destination and not care.
"Remember remember the 4th of November!"
Phoebe. Coming soon to Eve Online.
|
Scheulagh Santorine
The Math Department
19
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 14:11:19 -
[52] - Quote
Yana Hendar wrote:So, an anti bumping rig... surely this should be a lowslot module, like the other hull stuff (or maybe just a cap-sized rig). If miners don't want to be bumped, or they want to avoid PVP outside of hisec, make them lose an MLU or stabs. CCP Fozzie wrote: +100% Mass -55% Inertia
^ Science was never my strong point, but that makes zero sense.
You are right about 'inertia' making no sense. The use of the term 'inertia' by CCP is not consistent with a physical model of ship motion. If you describe the motion of ships in the game according to physical rules for objects in the real world, inertia is better described as the reciprocal of drag!
I'll add a section to Chapter I on the impact of this module (if/when) I have time.
S. Santorine
============================== I used to shoot things, now I do math.
S. Santorine
Writings on some formal methods in EvE-Online: Ship Motion in EVE Online
|
Syrias Bizniz
Zebra Corp The Bastion
362
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 14:20:47 -
[53] - Quote
Basically: It's an agility rig that also enhances your bump-resilience. |
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
64
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 14:26:07 -
[54] - Quote
Yana Hendar wrote:So, an anti bumping rig... surely this should be a lowslot module, like the other hull stuff (or maybe just a cap-sized rig). If miners don't want to be bumped, or they want to avoid PVP outside of hisec, make them lose an MLU or stabs. CCP Fozzie wrote: +100% Mass -55% Inertia
^ Science was never my strong point, but that makes zero sense.
No, not an anti-bumping rig. In Kronos, the Procurer received a nerf to its ability to mine while aligned in order to buff the ability of high sec miners flying Procurers to avoid getting bumped. This rig not only eliminates the nerf, but offers the same benefit to all mining ships. I currently fit a low friction rig on all my mining ships. I'll just replace that with this rig, even if my align time winds up going up a second.
The Nosy Gamer - Free Wollari!-á Buy your EVE time codes through Dotlan maps!
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Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
239
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 14:29:27 -
[55] - Quote
Apparently it's very hard for people to pair up with a mining buddy, web each other down, and mine aligned at 20m/s.... |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1957
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 15:18:01 -
[56] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Apparently it's very hard for people to pair up with a mining buddy, web each other down, and mine aligned at 20m/s....
well now they dont have to.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
|
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1574
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 15:18:24 -
[57] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:tl;dr: Higgs-rigged freighters will use twice the LO/stront if they take a jump/titan bridge. Blockade Runners certainly don't need them. Caps will simply jump to destination and not care.
um...ill give you the benefit of doubt and assume derp moment |
Red Teufel
Mafia Redux Irresponsible Use of Capital.
388
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 15:20:14 -
[58] - Quote
I'm not a fan of giving botters even more of a chance to warp away. |
Jack Branigan
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
7
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 15:39:17 -
[59] - Quote
Amy Farrah FowIer wrote:1. This wont work! "bumping" will now be more effective, because you wont get back in rage with -75% Max Velocity! (for example: you will not be bumped 60km, you will be bumped 30-40km and need the x4 time back to the asteroid)
2. This Rig will be used for WH-cycling - I am sure it will.
But bumping miners is clearly harrasment and my suggestion is the following:
Give every Exhumer/Mining Barge ect. the possibility to anhor in space. 30s time to go in "anhor mode" (you cant activate modules while anchoring your ship, you cant warp after you anchored your ship, so you have to unanchor before you will warp out.
With this changes you cant use this rig for WH-cycle!
Are you serious? 75% of this rig even being created is for WH cycling... It's been needed ever since they destroyed the ability to actually close wh's for the smaller wh corps. don't believe me? take a trip through c4's and look at all the abandoned towers from people who just up and left.
The miner bumping aspect is just a side bonus |
Jack Branigan
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
7
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 15:44:11 -
[60] - Quote
TheMercenaryKing wrote:OK this completely went over my head.
a 100% increase in mass per each rig. What will this do about forcing wormholes to collapse? Sure it removed a ships ability to slow-boat it to the wormhole, but with the recent changes, most caps will warp off and back again.
As stated in the dev post........."We expect that this will have a few somewhat niche uses right away for miners and residents of wormholes (especially lower-class holes) and that players can come up with more creative ways to use it over time. " It's primarily going to be used by smaller corps in the lower class wormholes so that a bs (usual way to kill a wh currently..) will be over 200 mil kg. Putting it just shy of the orca. Put a prop mod on and now a domi will basically equal a non prop modded orca mass. Which was the prefered method before to close wormholes in the lower classes. (except C1's with their stupid low wh mass restrictions cause AIN'T NOBODY GOT TIME FOR DAT!) |
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
609
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 15:49:01 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The mass multiplier is applied after additive effects such as plates and prop modules.
It's also worth noting that if all you care about is align time, Low Friction Nozzle Joints will be more effective. However if you want align time combined with lower speed or higher mass, these are the rigs for you.
You have made it clear what it does to the ship. You haven't said what it is supposed to do for the game. Why is it being added?
|
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
72
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 15:54:36 -
[62] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:The mass multiplier is applied after additive effects such as plates and prop modules.
It's also worth noting that if all you care about is align time, Low Friction Nozzle Joints will be more effective. However if you want align time combined with lower speed or higher mass, these are the rigs for you. You have made it clear what it does to the ship. You haven't said what it is supposed to do for the game. Why is it being added?
Read the Post Jack branigan made on the previous page.... he explains it pretty well... |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1957
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 15:55:36 -
[63] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:The mass multiplier is applied after additive effects such as plates and prop modules.
It's also worth noting that if all you care about is align time, Low Friction Nozzle Joints will be more effective. However if you want align time combined with lower speed or higher mass, these are the rigs for you. You have made it clear what it does to the ship. You haven't said what it is supposed to do for the game. Why is it being added?
FFS
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
609
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 16:06:46 -
[64] - Quote
I'm looking for Fozzie to say why they are putting it in the game. He or a CCP rep hasn't actually come out and said why they are introducing it. I'm looking for an 'officail' reason.
I get what the module does and I know how I'm going to abuse.... er use it. I think I know how some other folks are going to use it also. Again, I'm just looking for the Fozzinator to tell me why he (as CCPs representative on this module) put it in the game. That hasn't been put out yet (by CCP) |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1957
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 16:18:26 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We expect that this will have a few somewhat niche uses right away for miners and residents of wormholes (especially lower-class holes) and that players can come up with more creative ways to use it over time.
This hardly needs some translation but if i must.
Translation: 'Heres a tool for collapsing WH's and to make your barge harder to bump (edit- oh yeah and allow you to align out without really going anywhere), but we cant wait to see the crazy **** we could never think of you guys get upto with it'
why are you worrying about how you can abuse it? do whatever you can or want with it irrespective of what CCP intended it to be for. You only need to worry about 'abuse' when you start breaking the game with it, and we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
609
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 16:30:33 -
[66] - Quote
So the point it is to benefit wh closing and mining barge escape ability and bump immunity AND "some creative stuff players come up with"
So will this rig be available in capital sizes. There's already some discussion about supers nosing out of a POS and assigning drones. I think this is mostly going to be a capital module.
I think a good bit of balance would be that if a ship assigning drones gets bumped into a POS shield it should lose it's drones in space. Not disconnect with a possibility to reconnect later, but they are just lost period and can only be scooped into a cargo or drone bay. This is buffing the practice of nosing out of a POS and assigning drones/fighters, so let's get a down side to keep it balanced.
This rig is just free stuff to super POS nosers. I'm no expert, but that doesn't seem like it's a positive thing. The module buffs risk avoidance. Just ICK
|
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
72
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 16:37:39 -
[67] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:So the point it is to benefit wh closing and mining barge escape ability and bump immunity AND "some creative stuff players come up with"
So will this rig be available in capital sizes. There's already some discussion about supers nosing out of a POS and assigning drones. I think this is mostly going to be a capital module.
I think a good bit of balance would be that if a ship assigning drones gets bumped into a POS shield it should lose it's drones in space. Not disconnect with a possibility to reconnect later, but they are just lost period and can only be scooped into a cargo or drone bay. This is buffing the practice of nosing out of a POS and assigning drones/fighters, so let's get a down side to keep it balanced.
This rig is just free stuff to super POS nosers. I'm no expert, but that doesn't seem like it's a positive thing. The module buffs risk avoidance. Just ICK
You are completely ignoring the fact that it's a rig slot.....That means that you're going to be sacrificing quite a bit to have it put on your ship as it's not going to be something you're going to be swapping back and forth constantly. I keep seeing people typing in here that it should be a module because it would sacrifice more which is just ridiculous. too often people ignore the fact that well designed fits can take a pretty major hit when you sacrifice a rig slot just for this. capital size rigs i imagine won't be cheap either. |
Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
80
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 17:12:01 -
[68] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:H Stats are: 25 Calibration +100% Mass -55% Inertia -75% Max Velocity
Drawback of -10% Warp Speed (reduced by the Astronautics Rigging skill).
Go Go GO ratting carriers : D |
Dave Stark
7078
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 17:16:03 -
[69] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Why is it being added?
because a sandbox with more toys is an awesome thing.
it doesn't matter if there's no reason what so ever, the cool things in eve come from CCP going "here's a thing" and the players going "i wonder how far up my backside i can put this" then we all get to stand around like doctors near a water fountain saying "i saw the dumbest **** in the ER this morning...." |
Sieonigh
Vengance Inc. Nulli Secunda
26
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 17:24:40 -
[70] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Why is it being added?
because a sandbox with more toys is an awesome thing. it doesn't matter if there's no reason what so ever, the cool things in eve come from CCP going "here's a thing" and the players going "i wonder how far up my backside i can put this" then we all get to stand around like doctors near a water fountain saying "i saw the dumbest **** in the ER this morning...."
"and it was this long...."
"anyway he now has a wooden leg with a real foot" |
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
609
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 17:52:51 -
[71] - Quote
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:So the point it is to benefit wh closing and mining barge escape ability and bump immunity AND "some creative stuff players come up with"
So will this rig be available in capital sizes. There's already some discussion about supers nosing out of a POS and assigning drones. I think this is mostly going to be a capital module.
I think a good bit of balance would be that if a ship assigning drones gets bumped into a POS shield it should lose it's drones in space. Not disconnect with a possibility to reconnect later, but they are just lost period and can only be scooped into a cargo or drone bay. This is buffing the practice of nosing out of a POS and assigning drones/fighters, so let's get a down side to keep it balanced.
This rig is just free stuff to super POS nosers. I'm no expert, but that doesn't seem like it's a positive thing. The module buffs risk avoidance. Just ICK
You are completely ignoring the fact that it's a rig slot.....That means that you're going to be sacrificing quite a bit to have it put on your ship as it's not going to be something you're going to be swapping back and forth constantly. I keep seeing people typing in here that it should be a module because it would sacrifice more which is just ridiculous. too often people ignore the fact that well designed fits can take a pretty major hit when you sacrifice a rig slot just for this. capital size rigs i imagine won't be cheap either.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'll make it simple. Rig or no rig, if a ship nosing out of a pos assigning fighters gets bumped into the shield that ship should lose the drones. It's about adding a down side to a risk averse tactic.
The only tie that desire has to this rig is that it makes bumping even more difficult giving an unearned advantage to POS nosers.
I'm good with new toys. I'm good with this rig as is. I'm just a bit skeptical that CCP would add it just to help miners and wh rolling. I think it helps ISboxers, which I don't care for and I think it helps POS nosers, which is yet another common form of 'no risk' pvp. I'm not a game designer, but I'm hoping this isn't their target population.
No matter how the rig ends up, I'd still like to see in space drones be lost when entering a POS shield. (scoopable only to get them back). |
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
72
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 18:21:18 -
[72] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:So the point it is to benefit wh closing and mining barge escape ability and bump immunity AND "some creative stuff players come up with"
So will this rig be available in capital sizes. There's already some discussion about supers nosing out of a POS and assigning drones. I think this is mostly going to be a capital module.
I think a good bit of balance would be that if a ship assigning drones gets bumped into a POS shield it should lose it's drones in space. Not disconnect with a possibility to reconnect later, but they are just lost period and can only be scooped into a cargo or drone bay. This is buffing the practice of nosing out of a POS and assigning drones/fighters, so let's get a down side to keep it balanced.
This rig is just free stuff to super POS nosers. I'm no expert, but that doesn't seem like it's a positive thing. The module buffs risk avoidance. Just ICK
You are completely ignoring the fact that it's a rig slot.....That means that you're going to be sacrificing quite a bit to have it put on your ship as it's not going to be something you're going to be swapping back and forth constantly. I keep seeing people typing in here that it should be a module because it would sacrifice more which is just ridiculous. too often people ignore the fact that well designed fits can take a pretty major hit when you sacrifice a rig slot just for this. capital size rigs i imagine won't be cheap either. I'm not ignoring anything. I'll make it simple. Rig or no rig, if a ship nosing out of a pos assigning fighters gets bumped into the shield that ship should lose the drones. It's about adding a down side to a risk averse tactic. The only tie that desire has to this rig is that it makes bumping even more difficult giving an unearned advantage to POS nosers. I'm good with new toys. I'm good with this rig as is. I'm just a bit skeptical that CCP would add it just to help miners and wh rolling. I think it helps ISboxers, which I don't care for and I think it helps POS nosers, which is yet another common form of 'no risk' pvp. I'm not a game designer, but I'm hoping this isn't their target population. No matter how the rig ends up, I'd still like to see in space drones be lost when entering a POS shield. (scoopable only to get them back).
How exactly is this helping ISboxers??? Trust me i'm not a fanboy , i hate isboxer i just don't understand how it's helping them. As for pos nosers.. meh don't really care. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
597
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 18:53:24 -
[73] - Quote
Helps ISBoxers? How?
ISboxing is apparently akin to Al Qaeda or raping babies.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
|
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2499
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 19:58:18 -
[74] - Quote
Some thoughts after some time to think about this.
First I thought bumping was a legitimate mechanic.
Second of this is to counter bumping why is it a rig slot and not a low slot where it needs to replace as; Mining Laser Upgrade, Damage Control, or a Expanded Cargohold.
-
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13722
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 21:16:13 -
[75] - Quote
Not entirely sure what to make of these.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
125
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 21:32:07 -
[76] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Apparently it's very hard for people to pair up with a mining buddy, web each other down, and mine aligned at 20m/s.... You do realize that unless they both warp at the exact same time, one of them is going to suddenly lose the web effect as his buddy warps off and will have to build up a pretty good chunk of his speed again before he too can warp off?
Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
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Gay Pornstar
Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling
10
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 22:15:31 -
[77] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:Apparently it's very hard for people to pair up with a mining buddy, web each other down, and mine aligned at 20m/s.... You do realize that unless they both warp at the exact same time, one of them is going to suddenly lose the web effect as his buddy warps off and will have to build up a pretty good chunk of his speed again before he too can warp off?
You may not be aware, but theres this new mechanic called fleet warping.
There is an idea of a Gay Pornstar; some kind of abstraction. But there is no real me: only an entity, something illusory. And though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable... I simply am not there.
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Quesa
D00M. Northern Coalition.
42
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 01:02:47 -
[78] - Quote
Dreadbuchet v2. |
Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1206
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 01:06:31 -
[79] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Nice stuff for :
- 'Shuttle' Interceptors ( They fly gate to gate after all ) - Dedicated T1 Haulers ( they don't need speed to much if not on AFK mode) - T2 Transport Ships ( even faster align time) - T3 Nullified and Stabbed Transport Cruisers ( zuummm! between gate camps) - Capitals using gates for travel - faster align time! , one rig will be mandatory! .
Or you know, you could use low friction nozzle joints, align even faster, and not kill your warp speed, and speed for getting out of bubbles in null. If you think these are good for interceptors, haullers, transport cruisers, t3 nullified transports, you are HIGHLY mistaken. As for capitals doing gate to gate, again, low friction will provide faster align time, and do you REALLY want to kill your already slow warp speed even further? |
Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1206
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 01:12:51 -
[80] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Some thoughts after some time to think about this.
First I thought bumping was a legitimate mechanic.
Second of this is to counter bumping why is it a rig slot and not a low slot where it needs to replace as; Mining Laser Upgrade, Damage Control, or a Expanded Cargohold.
If you are referring to miners specifically, you may want to take a refresher course on fitting mining ships. If your ship has an expanded cargohold on it, it's a failfit. Fitting a damage control on anything but a skiff or procurer is also killing your income, considering it's not going to give enough ehp to make you that much harder to kill, and you're getting less MLU's on. If this was a low slot module, it would never see the light of day on mining ships, so by making it a rig, at least it has some useful applications.
Second, bumping will still be a legitimate mechanic. If you stop to think for a moment, you will see that this makes it EASIER to bump miners, as while you will only bump them half as far, they will move at 1/4 speed, so if they fit this rig, you can effectively bump them twice as far. |
|
Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1206
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 01:19:06 -
[81] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The mass multiplier is applied after additive effects such as plates and prop modules.
It's also worth noting that if all you care about is align time, Low Friction Nozzle Joints will be more effective. However if you want align time combined with lower speed or higher mass, these are the rigs for you.
Any word if usage with siege/triage/industrial will give a beautiful 20x or just a 12x? |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
126
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 02:29:57 -
[82] - Quote
Gay Pornstar wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:Apparently it's very hard for people to pair up with a mining buddy, web each other down, and mine aligned at 20m/s.... You do realize that unless they both warp at the exact same time, one of them is going to suddenly lose the web effect as his buddy warps off and will have to build up a pretty good chunk of his speed again before he too can warp off? You may not be aware, but theres this new mechanic called fleet warping. Miners that know about fleet warping? Okay.
Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
|
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
145
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 07:23:42 -
[83] - Quote
Unbumpable mining barge anyone? |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
609
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 11:14:23 -
[84] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Helps ISBoxers? How?
ISboxing is apparently akin to Al Qaeda or raping babies.
Anything that helps ISboxer fleets avoid pvp (and by pvp in this context I mean gank the poop out of) is bad for the game. Making it easier for 1 dude farming simultaneously with a dozen accounts to quickly dock or pos up is just bad for the game. Risk free meal tickets are not what the game needs.
Totally get rid of local in null and delay it in low sex and I'll be all for this rig. I'll use it and it will help me, but I'm not seeing how it's making the game better overall.
If it's some kind of bone CCP is throwing to the WH folks after the mass/range dump they took on the mechanics.... The cows are already gone, shutting the barn door isn't going to do much at this point.
As far as ISBoxing being akin to all things bad.... I think it's bad for the game. It's a farming tool. This is a pvp game. Eve doesn't need better farming tools. I think it sux that 1 guy can out play 6 guys because he's running 12 accounts through a 3rd party program. The things that I think are most damaging about it are the guys that strip all the belts in HS systems and the guys w/ the nightmare fleets vacuuming up incursion isk. PVP-wise it's used for bomber fleets - which has caused CCP to compensate w/ a change that a lot of folks dislike. (Prohint - CCP is addressing a symptom not the problem, so the disease won't be cured). Raping babies or an act of terrorism.... not really. A shittttty practice allowed by CCP... yup. |
viverxia
Serenity Prime The Volition Cult
2
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 12:36:35 -
[85] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Helps ISBoxers? How?
ISboxing is apparently akin to Al Qaeda or raping babies. This is a pvp game
This is why we can't have nice things
I'm sure the industrial core of new Eden would love to have words :p |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
10398
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 12:52:06 -
[86] - Quote
Had been reserving judgement until I could have a longer look at these.
Looks like a good nod towards the wormhole community. (especially after you basically curb stomped them for whatever reason earlier this year)
As for bumping, it ends up accomplishing very little. I do love how the mere insinuation of it is enough to flood the thread with miners asking "hey, can I get perfect safety?", which is beyond hilarious.
All in all, thumbs up from me.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
598
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 13:05:02 -
[87] - Quote
See, ISBoxing has become the 2014 version of "because of Falcon." This rig really doesn't help someone multiboxing, with or without ISBoxer, any more than it helps a "solo player." You, and many others, just have it in your head that multiboxing is bad for Eve, so you throw out this completely irrelevant argument for everything you don't understand or like.
If I had any confidence that ISBoxer actually worked particularly well (it does not), I'd be seriously tempted to start multiboxing Falcons just to troll the living **** out of you and the rest of your kind - who are always looking for an excuse why someone else is better than you at Eve. But the reality is that an equal number of skilled players are always better than one dude trying to multibox with or without the software. There is a shortage of real players in this game. Basic rule of thumb, at least in 0.0, divide the number in local by three - that is the number of actual players. Then divide that number in half to figure out how many people are actually on comms and not AFK. ISBoxer is a symptom of the problem - not enough humans playing Eve - not the problem itself. Eve has always encouraged multiboxing, if the horse is out of the barn for anything, it's way too late for that one.
Back on topic, this is an interesting addition to Eve that will have some niche uses. That's about all that needs to be said.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
240
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 14:29:35 -
[88] - Quote
Translation for WH: "Sorry we didn't listen to y'all when you said it'd kill 90% of the smaller corps because rolling is too dangerous. Have this rig that *might* help you close a hole, except when it wont.... and we still wont release data about how empty WH space is. Oh by the way, on a totally unrelated subject to WHs emptying out, we're increasing the buy orders of blue loot." |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
609
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 14:58:43 -
[89] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:See, ISBoxing has become the 2014 version of "because of Falcon." This rig really doesn't help someone multiboxing, with or without ISBoxer, any more than it helps a "solo player." You, and many others, just have it in your head that multiboxing is bad for Eve, so you throw out this completely irrelevant argument for everything you don't understand or like.
If I had any confidence that ISBoxer actually worked particularly well (it does not), I'd be seriously tempted to start multiboxing Falcons just to troll the living **** out of you and the rest of your kind - who are always looking for an excuse why someone else is better than you at Eve. But the reality is that an equal number of skilled players are always better than one dude trying to multibox with or without the software. There is a shortage of real players in this game. Basic rule of thumb, at least in a 0.0 station system, divide the number in local by three - that is the number of actual players. Then divide that number in half to figure out how many people are actually on comms and not AFK. ISBoxer is a symptom of the problem - not enough humans playing Eve - not the problem itself. Eve has always encouraged multiboxing, if the horse is out of the barn for anything, it's way too late for that one.
Back on topic, this is an interesting addition to Eve that will have some niche uses. That's about all that needs to be said.
I've multiboxed since my born on date more or less. I'm not against multi boxing. I'm not against multiple accounts. I'm not against having 6 accounts - 3 in one corp, 1 spying in a rival corp, 1 flying w/ RvB and 1 mining halfassed deep in the bowels of derelik. I personally thing anyone trying to eve with a single account is crazy. I don't know how they do it.
I am against 1 guy w/ 12 nightmares vacuuming up incursions (which I don't even run) in HS. I am against 1 guy w/ 12 accounts vacuuming up all the belts in HS systems.
You basic rule of thumb math has nothing to do w/ ISBoxing. And yeah it is sort of like 'because of falcon' - a lot of dudes hate it and what it stands for. A lot of folks roll their eyes and shrug saying 'there really isn't anything I can do but accept it. Some dudes tuely don't care either way about it.
What you don't ever see is a non-ISBoxer exclaiming happily "Sweet there is an ISBoxer in my system farming stuff!!" THAT just doesn't happen. You think it's a symptom... I think it's a problem. I agree that not enough humans is also a problem... but that did not result in ISBoxing. CARBON started it and CCP tollerance is what allows it to persist.
I'd like to see a nice graph just for my own benefit:
ISBoxer accounts (which aren't difficult to figure out on the server end) vs PLEX prices and maybe a nice percentage of ISBoxer accounts that are renewed via PLEX.
And back on topic - I've already said I'll use it, I'll benefit from it, and I think it's also benefitting some things that I feel are wrong in eve. |
NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
945
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 16:00:07 -
[90] - Quote
MJD sniper boats will be fun with this Jump, screw up, run away, and have the jump on target more consistently |
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
598
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 16:07:18 -
[91] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:MJD sniper boats will be fun with this Jump, screw up, run away, and have the jump on target more consistently
I was thinking it might also be useful for Tornados- where being aligned at all times is important and you are frequently waiting for folks to undock or jump through.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1958
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 16:23:52 -
[92] - Quote
viverxia wrote:
This is why we can't have nice things
I'm sure the industrial core of new Eden would love to have words :p
FFS!
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
199
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 17:42:13 -
[93] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Translation for WH: "Sorry we didn't listen to y'all when you said it'd kill 90% of the smaller corps because rolling is too dangerous. Have this rig that *might* help you close a hole, except when it wont.... and we still wont release data about how empty WH space is. Oh by the way, on a totally unrelated subject to WHs emptying out, we're increasing the buy orders of blue loot."
Because it didnt kill any corps. The data on wh population is also already out, and wormholes arent emptier than they used to. Lowclass income was below hisec lvl 3 missions, and had to be buffed.
I wish CCP could fix whiny babies in Rhea. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
610
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 18:02:24 -
[94] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:Translation for WH: "Sorry we didn't listen to y'all when you said it'd kill 90% of the smaller corps because rolling is too dangerous. Have this rig that *might* help you close a hole, except when it wont.... and we still wont release data about how empty WH space is. Oh by the way, on a totally unrelated subject to WHs emptying out, we're increasing the buy orders of blue loot." Because it didnt kill any corps. The data on wh population is also already out, and wormholes arent emptier than they used to. Lowclass income was below hisec lvl 3 missions, and had to be buffed. I wish CCP could fix whiny babies in Rhea.
I would love a link to your data. |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
241
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 00:22:57 -
[95] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Because it didnt kill any corps. The data on wh population is also already out,
[CITATION NEEDED] else obvious CCP alt detected. |
Rob Cobb
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
35
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 05:19:18 -
[96] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:Translation for WH: "Sorry we didn't listen to y'all when you said it'd kill 90% of the smaller corps because rolling is too dangerous. Have this rig that *might* help you close a hole, except when it wont.... and we still wont release data about how empty WH space is. Oh by the way, on a totally unrelated subject to WHs emptying out, we're increasing the buy orders of blue loot." Because it didnt kill any corps. The data on wh population is also already out, and wormholes arent emptier than they used to. Lowclass income was below hisec lvl 3 missions, and had to be buffed. I wish CCP could fix whiny babies in Rhea.
Ummm w-space is certainly getting smaller and losing residents...
On the bright side, CCP are trying to draw people back by increasing the value of lower tier loot (t3 dessies) and making it easier to roll holes (these rigs). They made a mistake, rather than going back they seem to be saving face and fixing it another way...
Happy to see they havent forgot about wormholers and am happy to see these changes + cant wait to see how many 600m mass orcas get trapped closing holes that have had unknown mass put on them :)
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Dalron
Infinite Holdings Ltd
9
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 06:49:26 -
[97] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:Translation for WH: "Sorry we didn't listen to y'all when you said it'd kill 90% of the smaller corps because rolling is too dangerous. Have this rig that *might* help you close a hole, except when it wont.... and we still wont release data about how empty WH space is. Oh by the way, on a totally unrelated subject to WHs emptying out, we're increasing the buy orders of blue loot." Because it didnt kill any corps. The data on wh population is also already out, and wormholes arent emptier than they used to. Lowclass income was below hisec lvl 3 missions, and had to be buffed. I wish CCP could fix whiny babies in Rhea.
The data on Wormhole space from the CSM Minutes was so far out of date as to be useless. It was only 2-3 weeks after the changes to wormhole space so before the exodus of people started.
Also the reason this cant be a module and has to be a rig is that otherwise you could take it off/turn it off. |
Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
114
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 11:52:12 -
[98] - Quote
Gay Pornstar wrote: You may not be aware, but theres this new mechanic called fleet warping.
And Fleet warping activates the web for all fleet members automatically at the same time? This mechanic is completely new to me, but have try it or I missunderstood something with the the warp-web-concept?!?
Oh sorry. You are an ISBoxer or something like that, correct? Now I understan how that may work for you. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
612
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 12:03:57 -
[99] - Quote
Rob Cobb wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:Translation for WH: "Sorry we didn't listen to y'all when you said it'd kill 90% of the smaller corps because rolling is too dangerous. Have this rig that *might* help you close a hole, except when it wont.... and we still wont release data about how empty WH space is. Oh by the way, on a totally unrelated subject to WHs emptying out, we're increasing the buy orders of blue loot." Because it didnt kill any corps. The data on wh population is also already out, and wormholes arent emptier than they used to. Lowclass income was below hisec lvl 3 missions, and had to be buffed. I wish CCP could fix whiny babies in Rhea. Ummm w-space is certainly getting smaller and losing residents... On the bright side, CCP are trying to draw people back by increasing the value of lower tier loot (t3 dessies) and making it easier to roll holes (these rigs). They made a mistake, rather than going back they seem to be saving face and fixing it another way... Happy to see they havent forgot about wormholers and am happy to see these changes + cant wait to see how many 600m mass orcas get trapped closing holes that have had unknown mass put on them :)
So other than the Fozzinator implying it has a niche use for rolling wh, can someone actually explain to me how this rig will make rolling wh better? I get the mass doubles, but the velocity goes to 25%. I see the mass being an interesting tool, but I see the 75% velocity reduction more than erasing any value the mass manipulation would have had.
Pretend I'm as obtuse as Baltec and explain how this will work. |
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
796
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 13:22:00 -
[100] - Quote
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:Gay Pornstar wrote: You may not be aware, but theres this new mechanic called fleet warping.
And Fleet warping activates the web for all fleet members automatically at the same time? This mechanic is completely new to me, but have try it or I missunderstood something with the the warp-web-concept?!? Oh sorry. You are an ISBoxer or something like that, correct? Now I understan how that may work for you. Like the fact that cycling your afterburner on and off helps put the ship's speed over the speed required for warp on heavy ships faster. A web also speeds up the situation where a ship alines to the correct destination. Situations that demonstrated this in the past are when a ship webs and scrams but the web hits and the scram does not on the server tic because of this a ship you think you caught gets a boost to escape from being webbed before he scram becomes effective. The de cloak insta warp trick is also a version of this if I am getting my facts straight.
If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide
See you around the universe.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
601
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 14:36:24 -
[101] - Quote
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:Gay Pornstar wrote: You may not be aware, but theres this new mechanic called fleet warping.
And Fleet warping activates the web for all fleet members automatically at the same time? This mechanic is completely new to me, but have try it or I missunderstood something with the the warp-web-concept?!? Oh sorry. You are an ISBoxer or something like that, correct? Now I understan how that may work for you.
If you are both aligned and at speed, then fleet warp will warp you at the same time.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
744
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 23:49:04 -
[102] - Quote
Galphii wrote:Is the limit on one per ship necessary? Could the bonuses be roughly divided to allow three to be fitted with improvements over the current stats (say, 150% mass increase)? Arbitrary restrictions like 'limit of 1 per ship' make my brain itch A pity freighters can't use these too because bumping 'mechanics' are ridiculous and archaic. Freighters don't have RIG SLOTS you numb skull.
"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves."
The Trial - Franz Kafka-á
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Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
37
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 00:19:29 -
[103] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We announced this new rig at EVE Vegas but I haven't made an official feedback thread yet, so here it is.
Short version is: we're adding a rig that slows you down quite a lot, doubles your mass and improves your agility a bit. It will also decrease warp speed as a drawback that can be reduced through the Astronautics Rigging skill.
We expect that this will have a few somewhat niche uses right away for miners and residents of wormholes (especially lower-class holes) and that players can come up with more creative ways to use it over time.
The rig will exist in all size variations, T1 only for now. It will have similar build costs to other T1 astronautics rigs. It will fall within the Astronautics Rigging section and use that skill.
It will be limited to one fitted per ship.
Stats are: 25 Calibration +100% Mass -55% Inertia -75% Max Velocity
Drawback of -10% Warp Speed (reduced by the Astronautics Rigging skill).
If you double the mass shouldn't this translate into extra hp, at least for hull and armour.
*awaits incoming hate from other players.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
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Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1587
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 00:25:18 -
[104] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:Galphii wrote:Is the limit on one per ship necessary? Could the bonuses be roughly divided to allow three to be fitted with improvements over the current stats (say, 150% mass increase)? Arbitrary restrictions like 'limit of 1 per ship' make my brain itch A pity freighters can't use these too because bumping 'mechanics' are ridiculous and archaic. Freighters don't have RIG SLOTS you numb skull. Thats what he said. |
Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
37
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 00:25:30 -
[105] - Quote
Kromarx wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Stats are: +100% Mass -55% Inertia From some physics site: Quote:Mass is that quantity that is solely dependent upon the inertia of an object. The more inertia that an object has, the more mass that it has.
Inertia and mass are one and the same thing. Inertia is just mass in motion.
CCP Should do their best to make the physics consistent though.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
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Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
38
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 00:35:29 -
[106] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:Unbumpable mining barge anyone?
I'm thinking of unbumpable ships outside jita 4-4 if I understand this right that is...
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
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Jason Ozran
Screaming Hayabusa Neo-Bushido Movement
26
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 11:20:16 -
[107] - Quote
Yet another attempt from CCP to allow people to run away from fights. Up to now they were only stabbed, but you still had a slight chance to lock them and get them, now they will be stabbed and warp instantly <3
This is literally becoming a no-risk game. Not a single improvement has been made on PVP side for a long time now apart from ship rebalancing, and a whole lot of things made to help people stay safe. Just go in low sec and looking for a fight those days is a crusade (when people didn't already left the game).
Call it tears if you like, for me it is just an observation :) |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
601
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 15:57:44 -
[108] - Quote
Jason Ozran wrote:Yet another attempt from CCP to allow people to run away from fights. Up to now they were only stabbed, but you still had a slight chance to lock them and get them, now they will be stabbed and warp instantly <3
You should look at the actual stats on the module before you start whining. There are existing rigs in the game that will get them into warp faster than this one.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
345
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 02:31:27 -
[109] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Jason Ozran wrote:Yet another attempt from CCP to allow people to run away from fights. Up to now they were only stabbed, but you still had a slight chance to lock them and get them, now they will be stabbed and warp instantly <3
You should look at the actual stats on the module before you start whining. There are existing rigs in the game that will get them into warp faster than this one.
The funny part is, if the person manages to get away, it's still Player vs Player content. Just the other players goal was to run away.
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1871
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 03:50:23 -
[110] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Ships in EVE have this really wacky sci-fi ability called antigravity which can alter inertia independently of mass. The inertia modifier of a ship is basically a multiplier that expresses how much of a ship's mass still resists acceleration in response to a force. That's the attribute which he's expressing simply as inertia. So those big battleships with their tiny "inertia modifier" really have only slightly more inertia than a frigate, and the same power engines, and those giant glowing pads in the back are just for looks?
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
142
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 04:26:45 -
[111] - Quote
Nobody even understands why gravitational mass and inertial mass happen to always be the same value for anything in our universe. It's not completely inconceivable in a science fiction setting that they could be decoupled somehow.
Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1871
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 05:21:40 -
[112] - Quote
Perhaps they are the same thing in entirety and we merely choose to give them a different name when viewing from a different angle. Perhaps decoupling them would be akin to decoupling gravity from gravity.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
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Andre Coeurl
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
29
|
Posted - 2014.11.03 00:28:17 -
[113] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5170994#post5170994
Looks like this thread is an indirect aknowledgement to the issues expressed by countless players in that 103 pages' thread linked above... a direct answer (with actual data) would be much appreciated though :D |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
244
|
Posted - 2014.11.03 04:13:11 -
[114] - Quote
Andre Coeurl wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5170994#post5170994
Looks like this thread is an indirect aknowledgement to the issues expressed by countless players in that 103 pages' thread linked above... a direct answer (with actual data) would be much appreciated though :D
If the data supported Fozzie, he'd have released it ages ago instead of taking a much bigger interest in new "special" events for WH. |
Vrynia
Imhotep inc.
4
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 09:36:42 -
[115] - Quote
I am a bit curious, since the BPO for the rigg are currently available on singularity does that mean it will be shipped in phoebe today ? |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
208
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 09:48:26 -
[116] - Quote
Vrynia wrote:I am a bit curious, since the BPO for the rigg are currently available on singularity does that mean it will be shipped in phoebe today ? yep.
Yes, I do incursions. Find out more here
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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Lugh Crow-Slave
192
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 13:09:59 -
[117] - Quote
Amy Farrah FowIer wrote:1. This wont work! "bumping" will now be more effective, because you wont get back in rage with -75% Max Velocity! (for example: you will not be bumped 60km, you will be bumped 30-40km and need the x4 time back to the asteroid)
2. This Rig will be used for WH-cycling - I am sure it will.
But bumping miners is clearly harrasment and my suggestion is the following:
Give every Exhumer/Mining Barge ect. the possibility to anhor in space. 30s time to go in "anhor mode" (you cant activate modules while anchoring your ship, you cant warp after you anchored your ship, so you have to unanchor before you will warp out.
With this changes you cant use this rig for WH-cycle! When this was announced they brought up rolling with these so I think it's intended |
Tiger Tesla
Periphery Bound Dominatus Atrum Mortis
50
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Posted - 2014.11.04 13:33:40 -
[118] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Amy Farrah FowIer wrote:1. This wont work! "bumping" will now be more effective, because you wont get back in rage with -75% Max Velocity! (for example: you will not be bumped 60km, you will be bumped 30-40km and need the x4 time back to the asteroid)
2. This Rig will be used for WH-cycling - I am sure it will.
But bumping miners is clearly harrasment and my suggestion is the following:
Give every Exhumer/Mining Barge ect. the possibility to anhor in space. 30s time to go in "anhor mode" (you cant activate modules while anchoring your ship, you cant warp after you anchored your ship, so you have to unanchor before you will warp out.
With this changes you cant use this rig for WH-cycle! When this was announced they brought up rolling with these so I think it's intended
Exactly this.
These are rigs that help deal with both "miner bumping" and the increasing trend of players using battleships to roll wormholes. Because Orcas are completely helpless it makes more sense to roll with battleships, but what that does is limit you only by the polarization timer. By making these battleships faster at rolling holes, but more vulnerable for ganking, it "adds content" for both sides of the engagement. |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
629
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 13:51:25 -
[119] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Kromarx wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Stats are: +100% Mass -55% Inertia From some physics site: Quote:Mass is that quantity that is solely dependent upon the inertia of an object. The more inertia that an object has, the more mass that it has. Ships in EVE have this really wacky sci-fi ability called antigravity which can alter inertia independently of mass. The inertia modifier of a ship is basically a multiplier that expresses how much of a ship's mass still resists acceleration in response to a force. That's the attribute which he's expressing simply as inertia.
In other words this is CCPs universe, physics is their *****.
Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome
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Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
248
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Posted - 2014.11.05 07:56:26 -
[120] - Quote
Tiger Tesla wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Amy Farrah FowIer wrote:1. This wont work! "bumping" will now be more effective, because you wont get back in rage with -75% Max Velocity! (for example: you will not be bumped 60km, you will be bumped 30-40km and need the x4 time back to the asteroid)
2. This Rig will be used for WH-cycling - I am sure it will.
But bumping miners is clearly harrasment and my suggestion is the following:
Give every Exhumer/Mining Barge ect. the possibility to anhor in space. 30s time to go in "anhor mode" (you cant activate modules while anchoring your ship, you cant warp after you anchored your ship, so you have to unanchor before you will warp out.
With this changes you cant use this rig for WH-cycle! When this was announced they brought up rolling with these so I think it's intended Exactly this. These are rigs that help deal with both "miner bumping" and the increasing trend of players using battleships to roll wormholes. Because Orcas are completely helpless it makes more sense to roll with battleships, but what that does is limit you only by the polarization timer. By making these battleships faster at rolling holes, but more vulnerable for ganking, it "adds content" for both sides of the engagement.
The problem is, CCP is trying to FORCE pvp onto the player, and that is never a good thing. It made more sense to roll with capitals because of the massive amount carved out of the mass limit. Orcas, BS, and HICs were used after a capital passed through. |
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Jackson Apollo
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2014.11.05 20:59:45 -
[121] - Quote
Posting here as well as the issue thread
the module states 100 % Mass Reduction. I think that was spose to say Mass Increase unless I greatly misunderstood the devblog
CCP Fozzie wrote: Stats are: 25 Calibration +100% Mass -55% Inertia -75% Max Velocity
Drawback of -10% Warp Speed (reduced by the Astronautics Rigging skill).
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
11949
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Posted - 2014.11.05 21:03:59 -
[122] - Quote
Yup, the descriptions of the attributes in the show-info window on these rigs are quite misleading. We're rewording them and they should be much clearer after our next fixup patch.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Gerart en Daire
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.05 21:23:20 -
[123] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Nobody even understands why gravitational mass and inertial mass happen to always be the same value for anything in our universe. It's not completely inconceivable in a science fiction setting that they could be decoupled somehow.
Exactly. You know, even the name "Higgs Anchor" should be enough to point out that, you know, there might be some weird, exotic, science fiction physics going on where the mass is increased but inertia is not (and is even decreased). The Higgs boson was originally hypothesized as a theoretical particle that effectively allows for mass/gravity as concepts/forces to exist, to vastly/incorrectly summarize the theory. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
624
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 15:25:15 -
[124] - Quote
I think until we actually achieve warp capability for real I'm going to go w/ whatever CCP decides on all eve physics matters. I always get a chuckle when you physics 'professors' argue over these types of details while warping from gate to gate and not even questioning what you're doing.
If you really want physics reality in eve, then I need to be able to micro warp drive my manticore w/ 4 bombs in hull right into the heart of an archon and 'end it' on the spot. It needs to matter what I ram what with, what it's carrying and where I make contact.
Make it so I really can 'hot dog' a proteus w/ my tempest. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
693
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Posted - 2014.11.06 17:20:26 -
[125] - Quote
I'm a physicist by training and understand the theory behind the Higgs Boson, mass, inertia, etc., yet every time I see this new rig, I think "Hugs Anchor".
Given that I also sail IRL, this presents me with a rather hysterical, and sometimes morbid, mental image.
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content.
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Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
396
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Posted - 2014.11.06 21:37:14 -
[126] - Quote
Feedback: 1. Yay heavy battleships. 2. Is it intended that a 100MN MWD adds 100ktonnes instead of 50 (like normal?). This leads to a situation in which a raven can hit about 300k, but a scorp hits abou 307k and can't jump... Iguess we can move off of rolling domis for rollingmegas but is annoying. 3. Any thoughts on having a module reduce mass by a small amount similar to a nano, but for mass instead of agility? It would put the domi I know and love back in the hole crushing game with a slot taken for mass.
*from my phone please excuse typos. |
Doddy
Esoteric Operations
905
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 00:40:56 -
[127] - Quote
So we are back with pvp avoidance modules again huh. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1619
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 01:15:13 -
[128] - Quote
Doddy wrote:So we are back with pvp avoidance modules again huh. maybe you should explain your point there sir. |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
29
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 08:12:42 -
[129] - Quote
could also put armor rigs on to slow yourself down even more.
[quote] So 50 retreivers and 1 ganker walk into a bar, and the ganker turns to all the retreivers and says "I know how to play this game, you're wrong, now give me your money and then let me blow you up". That's the joke. [/quote]
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
628
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 12:51:38 -
[130] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Doddy wrote:So we are back with pvp avoidance modules again huh. maybe you should explain your point there sir.
It aids in aligning and warping back to the station as soon as someone enters local. It's not really PVP avoidance per say, it's more of a risk minimalization module, which can be translated to pvp avoidence fairly reasonably.
I don't think it will help on gates much, but will be a boon to a farming carrier in your average dead end null theme park. (theme park being a system that is max upgraded for farming). Ganking a farmer isn't pvp to some folks, but it is to others, so I get what he's saying. Any time you tackle some ratting noob in a carrier he shouldn't be in, there is always that hope that folks come to his rescue and you get a little fight out of it.
It's just small gang fun when something builds up out of nothing. It's what a lot of guys look for. |
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Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
396
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 16:07:48 -
[131] - Quote
Doddy wrote:So we are back with pvp avoidance modules again huh.
Right, because a raven with 75% reduction in speed and 55% reduction in agility landing 12km from an entrance and burning back with a 120m/s too speed makes it so hard to catch...
I'm just glad I can solo close holes in a reasonable time frame..
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Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1625
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 20:17:34 -
[132] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Rowells wrote:Doddy wrote:So we are back with pvp avoidance modules again huh. maybe you should explain your point there sir. It aids in aligning and warping back to the station as soon as someone enters local. It's not really PVP avoidance per say, it's more of a risk minimalization module, which can be translated to pvp avoidence fairly reasonably. I don't think it will help on gates much, but will be a boon to a farming carrier in your average dead end null theme park. (theme park being a system that is max upgraded for farming). Ganking a farmer isn't pvp to some folks, but it is to others, so I get what he's saying. Any time you tackle some ratting noob in a carrier he shouldn't be in, there is always that hope that folks come to his rescue and you get a little fight out of it. It's just small gang fun when something builds up out of nothing. It's what a lot of guys look for. how is it different from any agility rig or even an istab? Its bonus to agility is less. The only effective differences are a reduction in speed and higher mass to make bumping more difficult. I don't see any avoidance here that doesnt already exist in something else. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
103
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 20:50:38 -
[133] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Rowells wrote:Doddy wrote:So we are back with pvp avoidance modules again huh. maybe you should explain your point there sir. It aids in aligning and warping back to the station as soon as someone enters local. It's not really PVP avoidance per say, it's more of a risk minimalization module, which can be translated to pvp avoidence fairly reasonably. I don't think it will help on gates much, but will be a boon to a farming carrier in your average dead end null theme park. (theme park being a system that is max upgraded for farming). Ganking a farmer isn't pvp to some folks, but it is to others, so I get what he's saying. Any time you tackle some ratting noob in a carrier he shouldn't be in, there is always that hope that folks come to his rescue and you get a little fight out of it. It's just small gang fun when something builds up out of nothing. It's what a lot of guys look for.
expect this gives worst alignment time then what is currently possible with rigs in game now. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
396
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 20:54:49 -
[134] - Quote
What in gods name are you guys talking about? It doesn't give you agility or speed. It takes it away. Essentially Amy ship with one of these fit is a giant punching bag (I guess it takes less speed that agility so you could theoretically go to warp faster). This is essentially a free cheap kill in wormhole space. Or a useful way to roll holes with ships that can actually put up a fight instead of having a sacrificial orca.
Of course my rolling mega will be stabbed up and hoping I don't rum into a bubble. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
396
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 20:56:09 -
[135] - Quote
*posting from my mobile excuse the typos above please. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
103
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 20:59:05 -
[136] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:What in gods name are you guys talking about? It doesn't give you agility or speed. It takes it away. Essentially Amy ship with one of these fit is a giant punching bag (I guess it takes less speed that agility so you could theoretically go to warp faster). This is essentially a free cheap kill in wormhole space. Or a useful way to roll holes with ships that can actually put up a fight instead of having a sacrificial orca.
Of course my rolling mega will be stabbed up and hoping I don't rum into a bubble.
it decreases time to get into warp. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
396
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 22:48:38 -
[137] - Quote
Dear lord, so do agility rigs, and they would do a better job than this. The only time this really constitutes PvP avoidance is if people mine or rat aligned, since you could mine for quite a while with reduced speed. The rest of the time it makes no sense.
Can we get some wormhole feedback, since its the obvious purpose instead of the tinfoil PvP avoidance theories?
No, you're right, this rig is obviously designed to thwart your ability to catch battleships and retrievers since they are such hard targets already. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1625
|
Posted - 2014.11.07 23:47:28 -
[138] - Quote
Technically PVP avoidance is considered pvp since its a contest between two people playing tag basically. So there's that too. |
Arla Sarain
99
|
Posted - 2014.11.08 14:31:29 -
[139] - Quote
The reduced Time-to-warp is marginal in comparison to the majority of existing modules/rigs.
I'm unsure if people who argue that this rig reduces TTW understand the purpose of this rig. It is not to warp out faster.
Mass addition reduces bumping severity. Speed penalty reduces drift. This rig is for pretty much miners alone and nothing else. Fit rig -> mine -> align, reduce speed to 75% of your already 75% lower speed - thats going to be about 38m/s on a procurer. The purpose of the rig is to reduce drift in respect to asteroids when aligning for warpout.
The agility reduction and Mass addition cancel each other out and result in roughly the same acceleration time constant (slightly less, but go to EFT and compare it to existing modules - it's not worth for the warp-out-time). |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
198
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 02:14:15 -
[140] - Quote
Why are there so many people thinking that the agility increase is the point of this rig?
Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
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Scheulagh Santorine
The Math Department
20
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Posted - 2014.11.16 20:52:16 -
[141] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:I think until we actually achieve warp capability for real I'm going to go w/ whatever CCP decides on all eve physics matters. I always get a chuckle when you physics 'professors' argue over these types of details while warping from gate to gate and not even questioning what you're doing.
If you really want physics reality in eve, then I need to be able to micro warp drive my manticore w/ 4 bombs in hull right into the heart of an archon and 'end it' on the spot. It needs to matter what I ram what with, what it's carrying and where I make contact.
Make it so I really can 'hot dog' a proteus w/ my tempest.
Ms. Lost,
There is indeed real physics in EVE. Its been there from the beginning (True story, bro). Its true that some of the terms used for motion parameters are misnomers, i.e. 'inertia' is really the reciprocal of a velocity-drag coefficient (Notes from Newton). These label issues, however, do not change the fact that underlying all non-warp ship motion is motion that is fundamentally based on physical systems.
This model also has the benefit that it has sufficient degrees of freedom to make it possible for developers to make motion parameter related choices that make the game-play consistent with their goals without altering the underlying model.
Regards,
S. Santorine
============================== I used to shoot things. Now I do math.
S. Santorine
Writings on some formal methods in EvE-Online: Ship Motion in EVE Online
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Wingmate
Raven's Flight Vanguard.
263
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 22:24:07 -
[142] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Why are there so many people thinking that the agility increase is the point of this rig?
you're expecting plebes to actually consider strategies beyond what's spoonfed to them?
i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
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RomeStar
BOVRIL bOREers Mining CO-OP Brave Collective
540
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 16:29:41 -
[143] - Quote
Oh the code tears are going to flow.
Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
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Square PI
Hedion University Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2014.12.10 15:26:04 -
[144] - Quote
Doddy wrote:So we are back with pvp avoidance modules again huh.
Not really. It is, at most, a combat avoidance module, not a PVP avoidance module. It is a really big difference.
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Solj RichPopolous
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
98
|
Posted - 2014.12.10 18:54:30 -
[145] - Quote
WHY? No more modules that help people run pls thanx! |
Navigation Boy
Edge of Existence
13
|
Posted - 2014.12.17 08:31:36 -
[146] - Quote
Apparently 'by some measures', miners are not doing well in wormhole space.
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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1725
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 19:04:32 -
[147] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. We announced this new rig at EVE Vegas but I haven't made an official feedback thread yet, so here it is.
Short version is: we're adding a rig that [attempts to make carebears safer from bumping and ganking]. It will also decrease warp speed as a drawback that can be reduced through the Astronautics Rigging skill.
We expect that this will have a few somewhat niche uses right away for miners and residents of wormholes (especially lower-class holes) and that players can come up with more creative ways to use it over time.
Hey Fozzie,
When will the T2 Hello-Kitty variant come out? You know, the one that makes miners 100% safe from ganks, perhaps causing a bumpers ship to simply explode on contact?
All this foreplay is killing me.
F
Would you like to know more?
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VonKolroth
Section 8. Fatal Ascension
50
|
Posted - 2015.01.08 01:35:35 -
[148] - Quote
Solj RichPopolous wrote:WHY? No more modules that help people run pls thanx!
Need more sneeky to put on my cloaky, non-d-scannable, instawarping ratting Curse. Can I get probe immunity?
Sent from my Gallente Erabus Titan on -FA- SRP
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