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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
609
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 15:49:01 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The mass multiplier is applied after additive effects such as plates and prop modules.
It's also worth noting that if all you care about is align time, Low Friction Nozzle Joints will be more effective. However if you want align time combined with lower speed or higher mass, these are the rigs for you.
You have made it clear what it does to the ship. You haven't said what it is supposed to do for the game. Why is it being added?
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Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
72
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 15:54:36 -
[62] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:The mass multiplier is applied after additive effects such as plates and prop modules.
It's also worth noting that if all you care about is align time, Low Friction Nozzle Joints will be more effective. However if you want align time combined with lower speed or higher mass, these are the rigs for you. You have made it clear what it does to the ship. You haven't said what it is supposed to do for the game. Why is it being added?
Read the Post Jack branigan made on the previous page.... he explains it pretty well... |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1957
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 15:55:36 -
[63] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:The mass multiplier is applied after additive effects such as plates and prop modules.
It's also worth noting that if all you care about is align time, Low Friction Nozzle Joints will be more effective. However if you want align time combined with lower speed or higher mass, these are the rigs for you. You have made it clear what it does to the ship. You haven't said what it is supposed to do for the game. Why is it being added?
FFS
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
609
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 16:06:46 -
[64] - Quote
I'm looking for Fozzie to say why they are putting it in the game. He or a CCP rep hasn't actually come out and said why they are introducing it. I'm looking for an 'officail' reason.
I get what the module does and I know how I'm going to abuse.... er use it. I think I know how some other folks are going to use it also. Again, I'm just looking for the Fozzinator to tell me why he (as CCPs representative on this module) put it in the game. That hasn't been put out yet (by CCP) |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1957
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 16:18:26 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We expect that this will have a few somewhat niche uses right away for miners and residents of wormholes (especially lower-class holes) and that players can come up with more creative ways to use it over time.
This hardly needs some translation but if i must.
Translation: 'Heres a tool for collapsing WH's and to make your barge harder to bump (edit- oh yeah and allow you to align out without really going anywhere), but we cant wait to see the crazy **** we could never think of you guys get upto with it'
why are you worrying about how you can abuse it? do whatever you can or want with it irrespective of what CCP intended it to be for. You only need to worry about 'abuse' when you start breaking the game with it, and we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
609
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 16:30:33 -
[66] - Quote
So the point it is to benefit wh closing and mining barge escape ability and bump immunity AND "some creative stuff players come up with"
So will this rig be available in capital sizes. There's already some discussion about supers nosing out of a POS and assigning drones. I think this is mostly going to be a capital module.
I think a good bit of balance would be that if a ship assigning drones gets bumped into a POS shield it should lose it's drones in space. Not disconnect with a possibility to reconnect later, but they are just lost period and can only be scooped into a cargo or drone bay. This is buffing the practice of nosing out of a POS and assigning drones/fighters, so let's get a down side to keep it balanced.
This rig is just free stuff to super POS nosers. I'm no expert, but that doesn't seem like it's a positive thing. The module buffs risk avoidance. Just ICK
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Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
72
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 16:37:39 -
[67] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:So the point it is to benefit wh closing and mining barge escape ability and bump immunity AND "some creative stuff players come up with"
So will this rig be available in capital sizes. There's already some discussion about supers nosing out of a POS and assigning drones. I think this is mostly going to be a capital module.
I think a good bit of balance would be that if a ship assigning drones gets bumped into a POS shield it should lose it's drones in space. Not disconnect with a possibility to reconnect later, but they are just lost period and can only be scooped into a cargo or drone bay. This is buffing the practice of nosing out of a POS and assigning drones/fighters, so let's get a down side to keep it balanced.
This rig is just free stuff to super POS nosers. I'm no expert, but that doesn't seem like it's a positive thing. The module buffs risk avoidance. Just ICK
You are completely ignoring the fact that it's a rig slot.....That means that you're going to be sacrificing quite a bit to have it put on your ship as it's not going to be something you're going to be swapping back and forth constantly. I keep seeing people typing in here that it should be a module because it would sacrifice more which is just ridiculous. too often people ignore the fact that well designed fits can take a pretty major hit when you sacrifice a rig slot just for this. capital size rigs i imagine won't be cheap either. |
Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
80
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Posted - 2014.10.29 17:12:01 -
[68] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:H Stats are: 25 Calibration +100% Mass -55% Inertia -75% Max Velocity
Drawback of -10% Warp Speed (reduced by the Astronautics Rigging skill).
Go Go GO ratting carriers : D |
Dave Stark
7078
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 17:16:03 -
[69] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Why is it being added?
because a sandbox with more toys is an awesome thing.
it doesn't matter if there's no reason what so ever, the cool things in eve come from CCP going "here's a thing" and the players going "i wonder how far up my backside i can put this" then we all get to stand around like doctors near a water fountain saying "i saw the dumbest **** in the ER this morning...." |
Sieonigh
Vengance Inc. Nulli Secunda
26
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 17:24:40 -
[70] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Why is it being added?
because a sandbox with more toys is an awesome thing. it doesn't matter if there's no reason what so ever, the cool things in eve come from CCP going "here's a thing" and the players going "i wonder how far up my backside i can put this" then we all get to stand around like doctors near a water fountain saying "i saw the dumbest **** in the ER this morning...."
"and it was this long...."
"anyway he now has a wooden leg with a real foot" |
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
609
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 17:52:51 -
[71] - Quote
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:So the point it is to benefit wh closing and mining barge escape ability and bump immunity AND "some creative stuff players come up with"
So will this rig be available in capital sizes. There's already some discussion about supers nosing out of a POS and assigning drones. I think this is mostly going to be a capital module.
I think a good bit of balance would be that if a ship assigning drones gets bumped into a POS shield it should lose it's drones in space. Not disconnect with a possibility to reconnect later, but they are just lost period and can only be scooped into a cargo or drone bay. This is buffing the practice of nosing out of a POS and assigning drones/fighters, so let's get a down side to keep it balanced.
This rig is just free stuff to super POS nosers. I'm no expert, but that doesn't seem like it's a positive thing. The module buffs risk avoidance. Just ICK
You are completely ignoring the fact that it's a rig slot.....That means that you're going to be sacrificing quite a bit to have it put on your ship as it's not going to be something you're going to be swapping back and forth constantly. I keep seeing people typing in here that it should be a module because it would sacrifice more which is just ridiculous. too often people ignore the fact that well designed fits can take a pretty major hit when you sacrifice a rig slot just for this. capital size rigs i imagine won't be cheap either.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'll make it simple. Rig or no rig, if a ship nosing out of a pos assigning fighters gets bumped into the shield that ship should lose the drones. It's about adding a down side to a risk averse tactic.
The only tie that desire has to this rig is that it makes bumping even more difficult giving an unearned advantage to POS nosers.
I'm good with new toys. I'm good with this rig as is. I'm just a bit skeptical that CCP would add it just to help miners and wh rolling. I think it helps ISboxers, which I don't care for and I think it helps POS nosers, which is yet another common form of 'no risk' pvp. I'm not a game designer, but I'm hoping this isn't their target population.
No matter how the rig ends up, I'd still like to see in space drones be lost when entering a POS shield. (scoopable only to get them back). |
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights Galactic Skyfleet Empire
72
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 18:21:18 -
[72] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:So the point it is to benefit wh closing and mining barge escape ability and bump immunity AND "some creative stuff players come up with"
So will this rig be available in capital sizes. There's already some discussion about supers nosing out of a POS and assigning drones. I think this is mostly going to be a capital module.
I think a good bit of balance would be that if a ship assigning drones gets bumped into a POS shield it should lose it's drones in space. Not disconnect with a possibility to reconnect later, but they are just lost period and can only be scooped into a cargo or drone bay. This is buffing the practice of nosing out of a POS and assigning drones/fighters, so let's get a down side to keep it balanced.
This rig is just free stuff to super POS nosers. I'm no expert, but that doesn't seem like it's a positive thing. The module buffs risk avoidance. Just ICK
You are completely ignoring the fact that it's a rig slot.....That means that you're going to be sacrificing quite a bit to have it put on your ship as it's not going to be something you're going to be swapping back and forth constantly. I keep seeing people typing in here that it should be a module because it would sacrifice more which is just ridiculous. too often people ignore the fact that well designed fits can take a pretty major hit when you sacrifice a rig slot just for this. capital size rigs i imagine won't be cheap either. I'm not ignoring anything. I'll make it simple. Rig or no rig, if a ship nosing out of a pos assigning fighters gets bumped into the shield that ship should lose the drones. It's about adding a down side to a risk averse tactic. The only tie that desire has to this rig is that it makes bumping even more difficult giving an unearned advantage to POS nosers. I'm good with new toys. I'm good with this rig as is. I'm just a bit skeptical that CCP would add it just to help miners and wh rolling. I think it helps ISboxers, which I don't care for and I think it helps POS nosers, which is yet another common form of 'no risk' pvp. I'm not a game designer, but I'm hoping this isn't their target population. No matter how the rig ends up, I'd still like to see in space drones be lost when entering a POS shield. (scoopable only to get them back).
How exactly is this helping ISboxers??? Trust me i'm not a fanboy , i hate isboxer i just don't understand how it's helping them. As for pos nosers.. meh don't really care. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
597
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 18:53:24 -
[73] - Quote
Helps ISBoxers? How?
ISboxing is apparently akin to Al Qaeda or raping babies.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2499
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 19:58:18 -
[74] - Quote
Some thoughts after some time to think about this.
First I thought bumping was a legitimate mechanic.
Second of this is to counter bumping why is it a rig slot and not a low slot where it needs to replace as; Mining Laser Upgrade, Damage Control, or a Expanded Cargohold.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13722
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 21:16:13 -
[75] - Quote
Not entirely sure what to make of these.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
125
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 21:32:07 -
[76] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Apparently it's very hard for people to pair up with a mining buddy, web each other down, and mine aligned at 20m/s.... You do realize that unless they both warp at the exact same time, one of them is going to suddenly lose the web effect as his buddy warps off and will have to build up a pretty good chunk of his speed again before he too can warp off?
Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
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Gay Pornstar
Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling
10
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 22:15:31 -
[77] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:Apparently it's very hard for people to pair up with a mining buddy, web each other down, and mine aligned at 20m/s.... You do realize that unless they both warp at the exact same time, one of them is going to suddenly lose the web effect as his buddy warps off and will have to build up a pretty good chunk of his speed again before he too can warp off?
You may not be aware, but theres this new mechanic called fleet warping.
There is an idea of a Gay Pornstar; some kind of abstraction. But there is no real me: only an entity, something illusory. And though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable... I simply am not there.
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Quesa
D00M. Northern Coalition.
42
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 01:02:47 -
[78] - Quote
Dreadbuchet v2. |
Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1206
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 01:06:31 -
[79] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Nice stuff for :
- 'Shuttle' Interceptors ( They fly gate to gate after all ) - Dedicated T1 Haulers ( they don't need speed to much if not on AFK mode) - T2 Transport Ships ( even faster align time) - T3 Nullified and Stabbed Transport Cruisers ( zuummm! between gate camps) - Capitals using gates for travel - faster align time! , one rig will be mandatory! .
Or you know, you could use low friction nozzle joints, align even faster, and not kill your warp speed, and speed for getting out of bubbles in null. If you think these are good for interceptors, haullers, transport cruisers, t3 nullified transports, you are HIGHLY mistaken. As for capitals doing gate to gate, again, low friction will provide faster align time, and do you REALLY want to kill your already slow warp speed even further? |
Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1206
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 01:12:51 -
[80] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Some thoughts after some time to think about this.
First I thought bumping was a legitimate mechanic.
Second of this is to counter bumping why is it a rig slot and not a low slot where it needs to replace as; Mining Laser Upgrade, Damage Control, or a Expanded Cargohold.
If you are referring to miners specifically, you may want to take a refresher course on fitting mining ships. If your ship has an expanded cargohold on it, it's a failfit. Fitting a damage control on anything but a skiff or procurer is also killing your income, considering it's not going to give enough ehp to make you that much harder to kill, and you're getting less MLU's on. If this was a low slot module, it would never see the light of day on mining ships, so by making it a rig, at least it has some useful applications.
Second, bumping will still be a legitimate mechanic. If you stop to think for a moment, you will see that this makes it EASIER to bump miners, as while you will only bump them half as far, they will move at 1/4 speed, so if they fit this rig, you can effectively bump them twice as far. |
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Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1206
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 01:19:06 -
[81] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The mass multiplier is applied after additive effects such as plates and prop modules.
It's also worth noting that if all you care about is align time, Low Friction Nozzle Joints will be more effective. However if you want align time combined with lower speed or higher mass, these are the rigs for you.
Any word if usage with siege/triage/industrial will give a beautiful 20x or just a 12x? |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
126
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 02:29:57 -
[82] - Quote
Gay Pornstar wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:Nolak Ataru wrote:Apparently it's very hard for people to pair up with a mining buddy, web each other down, and mine aligned at 20m/s.... You do realize that unless they both warp at the exact same time, one of them is going to suddenly lose the web effect as his buddy warps off and will have to build up a pretty good chunk of his speed again before he too can warp off? You may not be aware, but theres this new mechanic called fleet warping. Miners that know about fleet warping? Okay.
Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
145
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 07:23:42 -
[83] - Quote
Unbumpable mining barge anyone? |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
609
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 11:14:23 -
[84] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Helps ISBoxers? How?
ISboxing is apparently akin to Al Qaeda or raping babies.
Anything that helps ISboxer fleets avoid pvp (and by pvp in this context I mean gank the poop out of) is bad for the game. Making it easier for 1 dude farming simultaneously with a dozen accounts to quickly dock or pos up is just bad for the game. Risk free meal tickets are not what the game needs.
Totally get rid of local in null and delay it in low sex and I'll be all for this rig. I'll use it and it will help me, but I'm not seeing how it's making the game better overall.
If it's some kind of bone CCP is throwing to the WH folks after the mass/range dump they took on the mechanics.... The cows are already gone, shutting the barn door isn't going to do much at this point.
As far as ISBoxing being akin to all things bad.... I think it's bad for the game. It's a farming tool. This is a pvp game. Eve doesn't need better farming tools. I think it sux that 1 guy can out play 6 guys because he's running 12 accounts through a 3rd party program. The things that I think are most damaging about it are the guys that strip all the belts in HS systems and the guys w/ the nightmare fleets vacuuming up incursion isk. PVP-wise it's used for bomber fleets - which has caused CCP to compensate w/ a change that a lot of folks dislike. (Prohint - CCP is addressing a symptom not the problem, so the disease won't be cured). Raping babies or an act of terrorism.... not really. A shittttty practice allowed by CCP... yup. |
viverxia
Serenity Prime The Volition Cult
2
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 12:36:35 -
[85] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Helps ISBoxers? How?
ISboxing is apparently akin to Al Qaeda or raping babies. This is a pvp game
This is why we can't have nice things
I'm sure the industrial core of new Eden would love to have words :p |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
10398
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 12:52:06 -
[86] - Quote
Had been reserving judgement until I could have a longer look at these.
Looks like a good nod towards the wormhole community. (especially after you basically curb stomped them for whatever reason earlier this year)
As for bumping, it ends up accomplishing very little. I do love how the mere insinuation of it is enough to flood the thread with miners asking "hey, can I get perfect safety?", which is beyond hilarious.
All in all, thumbs up from me.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
598
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 13:05:02 -
[87] - Quote
See, ISBoxing has become the 2014 version of "because of Falcon." This rig really doesn't help someone multiboxing, with or without ISBoxer, any more than it helps a "solo player." You, and many others, just have it in your head that multiboxing is bad for Eve, so you throw out this completely irrelevant argument for everything you don't understand or like.
If I had any confidence that ISBoxer actually worked particularly well (it does not), I'd be seriously tempted to start multiboxing Falcons just to troll the living **** out of you and the rest of your kind - who are always looking for an excuse why someone else is better than you at Eve. But the reality is that an equal number of skilled players are always better than one dude trying to multibox with or without the software. There is a shortage of real players in this game. Basic rule of thumb, at least in 0.0, divide the number in local by three - that is the number of actual players. Then divide that number in half to figure out how many people are actually on comms and not AFK. ISBoxer is a symptom of the problem - not enough humans playing Eve - not the problem itself. Eve has always encouraged multiboxing, if the horse is out of the barn for anything, it's way too late for that one.
Back on topic, this is an interesting addition to Eve that will have some niche uses. That's about all that needs to be said.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
240
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 14:29:35 -
[88] - Quote
Translation for WH: "Sorry we didn't listen to y'all when you said it'd kill 90% of the smaller corps because rolling is too dangerous. Have this rig that *might* help you close a hole, except when it wont.... and we still wont release data about how empty WH space is. Oh by the way, on a totally unrelated subject to WHs emptying out, we're increasing the buy orders of blue loot." |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
609
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 14:58:43 -
[89] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:See, ISBoxing has become the 2014 version of "because of Falcon." This rig really doesn't help someone multiboxing, with or without ISBoxer, any more than it helps a "solo player." You, and many others, just have it in your head that multiboxing is bad for Eve, so you throw out this completely irrelevant argument for everything you don't understand or like.
If I had any confidence that ISBoxer actually worked particularly well (it does not), I'd be seriously tempted to start multiboxing Falcons just to troll the living **** out of you and the rest of your kind - who are always looking for an excuse why someone else is better than you at Eve. But the reality is that an equal number of skilled players are always better than one dude trying to multibox with or without the software. There is a shortage of real players in this game. Basic rule of thumb, at least in a 0.0 station system, divide the number in local by three - that is the number of actual players. Then divide that number in half to figure out how many people are actually on comms and not AFK. ISBoxer is a symptom of the problem - not enough humans playing Eve - not the problem itself. Eve has always encouraged multiboxing, if the horse is out of the barn for anything, it's way too late for that one.
Back on topic, this is an interesting addition to Eve that will have some niche uses. That's about all that needs to be said.
I've multiboxed since my born on date more or less. I'm not against multi boxing. I'm not against multiple accounts. I'm not against having 6 accounts - 3 in one corp, 1 spying in a rival corp, 1 flying w/ RvB and 1 mining halfassed deep in the bowels of derelik. I personally thing anyone trying to eve with a single account is crazy. I don't know how they do it.
I am against 1 guy w/ 12 nightmares vacuuming up incursions (which I don't even run) in HS. I am against 1 guy w/ 12 accounts vacuuming up all the belts in HS systems.
You basic rule of thumb math has nothing to do w/ ISBoxing. And yeah it is sort of like 'because of falcon' - a lot of dudes hate it and what it stands for. A lot of folks roll their eyes and shrug saying 'there really isn't anything I can do but accept it. Some dudes tuely don't care either way about it.
What you don't ever see is a non-ISBoxer exclaiming happily "Sweet there is an ISBoxer in my system farming stuff!!" THAT just doesn't happen. You think it's a symptom... I think it's a problem. I agree that not enough humans is also a problem... but that did not result in ISBoxing. CARBON started it and CCP tollerance is what allows it to persist.
I'd like to see a nice graph just for my own benefit:
ISBoxer accounts (which aren't difficult to figure out on the server end) vs PLEX prices and maybe a nice percentage of ISBoxer accounts that are renewed via PLEX.
And back on topic - I've already said I'll use it, I'll benefit from it, and I think it's also benefitting some things that I feel are wrong in eve. |
NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
945
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 16:00:07 -
[90] - Quote
MJD sniper boats will be fun with this Jump, screw up, run away, and have the jump on target more consistently |
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