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Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
1516
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Posted - 2012.12.05 18:24:00 -
[121] - Quote
Spc One wrote:What patch notes don't tell you:
EXPANSION ABOUT NERFS, Because Missiles were ok for 6 years now but now they're overpowered.
a.) PVE
1. All missile ships are now obsolete (very low range and decreased damage) 2. All Drone ships are now obsolete due to new AI (your drones get targeted as soon as you deploy them) 3. All ships that rely on drones for protection against frigates are obsolete 4. NPC's tracking disruptor now affects optimal range and falloff instead of just optimal range, which makes 800mm's minmatar ships obsolete in pve. 5. All npc complexes and ark missions are now insanely hard to do, you can't use drones 6. There are only few ships that can save you from mission if you loose all of your drones and get stuck (scrambled with npc agression). 7. New meta 9 - 14 drone modules are obsolete for pve, since ai will always shoot your drones. 8. If you use marauders or other ships for guristas missions you'll get perma jammed, there's nothing you can do since you can't use drones.
b). PVP 1. All Heavy Missile ships are now obsolete 2. Drake is worst battlecruiser for pvp 3. Hurricane got nerfed so it is kinda useless now 4. Tengu now sucks compared to other t-3's 5. Very hard to gank someone ratting in low sec or 0.0 with stealth bombers or frigate since npc's will switch targets
A.) PVE
1. The range is now comparable to something a 720mm or heavy beam laser can achieve, welcome to our range. 90% Of people are reporting a loss of 60 DPS. Hardly the end of the world. 2. I still do think they're entirely THAT bad. I ran Stop the Thief last night and lost one drone to initial aggro (and they had webs so recalling didnt help) 3. See 2 4. You mean like the other two gun systems too? Hybrids and Lasers called, they said DEAL WITH IT 5. See 2 6. I guess bring a logi frigate? :D 7. See 2 8. Even when flying a marauder I haven't found that Guristas mission were any worse than the Serpentis missions. Granted, I haven't ran any Guristas missions since Retri so I can't say much to this one.
B.) PVP
1. See 1 of PVE 2. HAM drake will **** your **** up like a 425mm hurricane will 3. Powegrid reduction really that bad? I can't imagine it really is but that remains to be seen, so I'll leave this one. 4. Really? Compare a HAM Tengu to a HAM Legion or a HPL legion or a 425mm Loki or a neutron blaster Prot. HAM-gu stil scares me. 5. Okay yeah bombers being toast I'll give you but that's just sad if your AF gets pwned by belt rats. I will give you, though, that a anom full of frigs can do a number on any small ship pretty quick... The Drake is a Lie |
Veinnail
FinFleet Raiden.
46
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Posted - 2012.12.05 18:32:00 -
[122] - Quote
Thorn Galen wrote: FoF missiles on lvl5 actually mean something now.
ONLY if they removed the fof flagging of structures like "guristas wall" and "guristas elevator" because all of these structures, technically owned by the indigenous pirates get flagged for FOF targetting, and since the FOFs shoot the nearest thing first, it fails and takes forever.
If they have fixed this, then GREAT! if not, then FOFs are still useless in any mission with a destructible object.
some of these sites have dozens of HIGH HP structures. example would be the one that looks like the gallentean stargate. TONS of HP. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
2200
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Posted - 2012.12.05 18:35:00 -
[123] - Quote
A friend and I just ran what must have been about twenty level four missions. We had no issues in completing them. We were in Domis.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Amitious Turkey
The Scope Gallente Federation
40
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Posted - 2012.12.05 19:32:00 -
[124] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Amitious Turkey wrote:Wormhole pve has been this way for 3 years...and I seem to recall that even back then they wanted to expand the new AI to every npc. So congrats on protesting a change that's been 3 years in the making. Maybe you could look up wormhole fits and adapt them to lvl4's. Sigh, someone else that doesn't get the big picture. Wormholes and Incursions work because they were built from scratch to work the way they do. Missions and complexes weren't. Show my the wormhole site that STARTS with 35 npc ships on the field when you warp in. Show me the wormhole anom with 13 tacking npc frigs at warp in. What some of us suggested CCP do was fix the drone user interface and revamp missions to have fewer but more powerful rats like wormholes and incursions 1st THEN bring on the new AI. We got new AI 1st that is making Sansha and Blood Raider NPC space (for an example ) and many many other missions and complexes so annoying as to almost be undoable. in null sec this means the frigless Forsaken hubs and like anoms are going to get WAY more crowded than they have ever been, and those things spew isk unlike anoms with frigs that slow isk making down. If you see a bunch of inflation next quarter, blame those damn npcs lol.
Hmm, didn't think about that. I stand corrected. I like to lick things.
Haunting the forums since 03. |
Sedalectra
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.12.05 19:55:00 -
[125] - Quote
Ioci wrote:You mean like the kite fit HML Tengu they just nerfed? CCP's war on their own content won't slow down because of silly little things like players.
The nerf to HML was so negligible, I wouldn't have noticed if I didn't look at my fitting window. I think I lost like not even 20 dps. Oh the horror. |
Dark Assassin15
Failed Diplomacy
99
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Posted - 2012.12.05 20:37:00 -
[126] - Quote
insert witty comment here.. [img]http://www.invokemethod.com/repo/failedsig.png[/img] |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
782
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 20:42:00 -
[127] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:A friend and I just ran what must have been about twenty level four missions. We had no issues in completing them. We were in Domis.
It is the solo mission runner like myself, who runs missions to pay for pvp who is really in the poo poo This is not a signature. |
starbelt stacy
Project-Gonk
17
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Posted - 2012.12.05 20:45:00 -
[128] - Quote
god bless the "cancel subscription" button ... Sack the dumb mofo who decided to nerf level 4's? .... again!!! |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
782
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Posted - 2012.12.05 20:56:00 -
[129] - Quote
starbelt stacy wrote:god bless the "cancel subscription" button ...
In another thread some time ago, I said that my biggest mistake was paying for Eve by annual subscription.
On the good side, perhaps I shall find something else to do in Eve before my subscription gets renewed, or not, next July.
I am currently training Cruiser V to get into an Ishtar for exploration, the one thing that I have always really wanted to do.
Ishtar and Drones - lol This is not a signature. |
Master Gotama
Black Sky Hipsters
11
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Posted - 2012.12.05 21:01:00 -
[130] - Quote
has anyone tried RR'ing drones once they're aggroed? could act as a nice drone tank if done properly. |
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
238
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Posted - 2012.12.05 22:01:00 -
[131] - Quote
Master Gotama wrote:has anyone tried RR'ing drones once they're aggroed? could act as a nice drone tank if done properly.
Better hope your target is in your grill or you are in a carrier, that 8km only helps with Sentries.
So Phoon, Domi, Rattler, Gila, Ishtar, Geddon, and Mach (and Navy variants) those are you sub caps.
........and have fun with the elite frigates on those ships that only have 125m3 Drone Bays, you can't neut out rats. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2118
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 22:18:00 -
[132] - Quote
Amitious Turkey wrote:Wormhole pve has been this way for 3 years...and I seem to recall that even back then they wanted to expand the new AI to every npc. So congrats on protesting a change that's been 3 years in the making. Maybe you could look up wormhole fits and adapt them to lvl4's.
WH PvE had up to 35 ships insta-aggroing you, starting at 2000 meters and possibly with webbing + cruise towers?
That's new to me. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
391
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 22:21:00 -
[133] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Amitious Turkey wrote:Wormhole pve has been this way for 3 years...and I seem to recall that even back then they wanted to expand the new AI to every npc. So congrats on protesting a change that's been 3 years in the making. Maybe you could look up wormhole fits and adapt them to lvl4's. WH PvE had up to 35 ships insta-aggroing you, starting at 2000 meters and possibly with webbing + cruise towers? That's new to me. Question, do sleepers tend to do as much damping, jamming and tracking disruption as mission rats? Also, it's worth noting that sleepers don't have the sig based AI which makes drones the top of the menu for NPC frigates at last check. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
26
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Posted - 2012.12.05 22:32:00 -
[134] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Amitious Turkey wrote:Wormhole pve has been this way for 3 years...and I seem to recall that even back then they wanted to expand the new AI to every npc. So congrats on protesting a change that's been 3 years in the making. Maybe you could look up wormhole fits and adapt them to lvl4's. WH PvE had up to 35 ships insta-aggroing you, starting at 2000 meters and possibly with webbing + cruise towers? That's new to me. Question, do sleepers tend to do as much damping, jamming and tracking disruption as mission rats? Also, it's worth noting that sleepers don't have the sig based AI which makes drones the top of the menu for NPC frigates at last check.
Should I remember you what a BC sized Sleeper can do to your team?
-shoot A:check -rep buddy Sleeper:check -neut B:check -disrupt C:check
Not sure if this is still happening but at some point or at least in some sites the same rat could also on top top of the list above, web someone else and do other nasty stuff not sure about since makes a long time I haven't been there.
So no, lvl4 rats can't and don't ever to all of this at the same individually except for some frigates webbing/disrupting/shoot and are less than a problem. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1838
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 22:34:00 -
[135] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Should I remember you what a BC sized Sleeper can do to your team? Thanks, I think I remember now. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Amanda Haley
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.12.05 22:45:00 -
[136] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Amitious Turkey wrote:Wormhole pve has been this way for 3 years...and I seem to recall that even back then they wanted to expand the new AI to every npc. So congrats on protesting a change that's been 3 years in the making. Maybe you could look up wormhole fits and adapt them to lvl4's. WH PvE had up to 35 ships insta-aggroing you, starting at 2000 meters and possibly with webbing + cruise towers? That's new to me. Question, do sleepers tend to do as much damping, jamming and tracking disruption as mission rats? Also, it's worth noting that sleepers don't have the sig based AI which makes drones the top of the menu for NPC frigates at last check. Should I remember you what a BC sized Sleeper can do to your team? -shoot A:check -rep buddy Sleeper:check -neut B:check -disrupt C:check Not sure if this is still happening but at some point or at least in some sites the same rat could also on top top of the list above, web someone else and do other nasty stuff not sure about since makes a long time I haven't been there. So no, lvl4 rats can't and don't ever do all of this at the same and individually, except for some frigates webbing/disrupting/shoot but are less than a problem.
That's why through all my wh gang experience I only saw Domi, proteus and myrm ships clearing anomalies. Definitely not tengus and drakes 90% of time. The only droneboats i saw were carriers or some young tourist cleaning c1s.
dont forget to tell me how many anoms have gets in them and how you cant control range where to land on NPC to be in right distance with ship and that rewards are so bad compared.
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Akiyo Mayaki
Industrial Justice Corporation
17
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Posted - 2012.12.05 22:58:00 -
[137] - Quote
Buff drones! (-: |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
391
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 22:58:00 -
[138] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Amitious Turkey wrote:Wormhole pve has been this way for 3 years...and I seem to recall that even back then they wanted to expand the new AI to every npc. So congrats on protesting a change that's been 3 years in the making. Maybe you could look up wormhole fits and adapt them to lvl4's. WH PvE had up to 35 ships insta-aggroing you, starting at 2000 meters and possibly with webbing + cruise towers? That's new to me. Question, do sleepers tend to do as much damping, jamming and tracking disruption as mission rats? Also, it's worth noting that sleepers don't have the sig based AI which makes drones the top of the menu for NPC frigates at last check. Should I remember you what a BC sized Sleeper can do to your team? -shoot A:check -rep buddy Sleeper:check -neut B:check -disrupt C:check Not sure if this is still happening but at some point or at least in some sites the same rat could also on top top of the list above, web someone else and do other nasty stuff not sure about since makes a long time I haven't been there. So no, lvl4 rats can't and don't ever do all of this at the same and individually, except for some frigates webbing/disrupting/shoot but are less than a problem. Mission rats tend not to have to do all of this individually due in large part to their greater numbers, especially against solo pilots, but I ask as we have at least 1 if not 2 differences in the 2 AI's. 3 if you count splitting Ewar/DPS to different targets. I've not been damped by sleepers the way I have by serpentis, nor jammed frequently if at all as I recall. And either I just didn't notice as I was using missiles at the time or I've never been under TD affects from them either. The more important one is that sleeper frigs to my knowledge don't have any greater propensity to hate drones than anything else, while mission AI now hates drones by design at the frigate level.
So I am genuinely asking, do sleepers do all those types of ewar while having dedicated drone haters? |
Beiny Lemmont
Boot Camp. CZECH Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.12.05 23:05:00 -
[139] - Quote
first : about new "AI" its not AI but: .. I AAAAAA, I AAAAAAA or DRONESHOLOCAUST
Why ? Result is simple CCP damaged all players around. I bougt one day before this patch finaly raven navy to run lev 4 misions after half year of skilling. Now I cant run level 4 missions because I DONT HAVE DRONES ! all my drones are killed in few seconds imediately after putting out.. Without drones Im totaly loosed because I cant aply dmg by shooting cruise missiles on frigates or destroyers sou im not able to continue in mission (frustrate). of course this is not only problem of raven navy ..
so what to say ? CCP damaged all players around / next nonsens of CCP
"thanks CCP",, realy good strategy how to brown players off ... |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2124
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Posted - 2012.12.05 23:11:00 -
[140] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: So no, lvl4 rats can't and don't ever do all of this at the same and individually, except for some frigates webbing/disrupting/shoot but are less than a problem.
You should do some more missions.
There are some where you get ECM (6 elite ships) in one room with one damage type, then damp in the next room (and another damage type). Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
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Irya Boone
Escadron leader
82
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 23:27:00 -
[141] - Quote
NPC should have Defenders missiles too I guess Improve C2 class WH More anos more signs ...RENAME null sec system With the name Of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It xill be awesome-á |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
208
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 23:53:00 -
[142] - Quote
Excellent change for the game. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2126
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 23:54:00 -
[143] - Quote
Irya Boone wrote:NPC should have Defenders missiles too I guess
Some have FoF. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
ashley Eoner
63
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 00:00:00 -
[144] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:ashley Eoner wrote:Quote: Additionally, if you think CCP is going to have any financial problems from the teeny few people unsubbing who probably use plex on their accounts anyway due to far-too-much isk generation from level 4 missions... well, let's just say there's a reason the tantrum posts like yours have not been addressed by the devs.
Uh someone had to pay real money for that plex at some point. The rest of your post was about as coherent... Are you sure about that? People don't pay $20 for a plex (which is $5 more than a one month sub and does the same thing) to fund their account. If people are using plex to extend their count, they are buying it in game with isk, not real money, hence how some people actually play the game for free. The only people who buy isk with real money are those that are selling it in game for isk to people that want to use it to extend their sub for free, paying isk instead of real money. Do you understand how it works now, or shall I teach you how to use a calculator? If people are buying isk off the eve store for $5 more than a one month sub to extend their sub, then they have already failed at eve. Wow you are certainly a special person..In order for a plex to appear in game someone somewhere had to of paid real money for it. So NO one is playing the game for free EVERYONE is paying either directly or indirectly. The fact that you cannot comprehend such a simple concept really shines a light on the rest of your incoherent rants.. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
783
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 00:28:00 -
[145] - Quote
I am so pleased with the nerf to drones that I am really looking forward to playing ARMA 3 This is not a signature. |
Count of MonteCylon
MonteCylon Money Acquisition and Demolition Ltd.
15
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Posted - 2012.12.06 00:33:00 -
[146] - Quote
I'm sad, I don't stay up to date on the patches or changes and play Eve solo. I JUST had the idea that I could run missions more easily in a Myrmidon that mostly stays out of enemy range, and apparently people have been doing it for a long time, and now it gets nerfed like two days after I started doing it |
Pitrolo Orti
State Protectorate Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.12.06 18:46:00 -
[147] - Quote
Instead of shooting at rocks now I shoot at my drones :P I think sleepers are way easier than some LVL 4 rooms WEALTH-á0.56 ISK |
Funky Lazers
Shin-Ra Ltd
26
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Posted - 2012.12.06 19:09:00 -
[148] - Quote
I said this before and will say this again. The new drone AI didn't make missions harder, it made them more time wasting. I.e. you lost XX drones, now it's time to invent and make more of them. For some people it means another run to Jita. "Adapt" - means you have to stop using the ship you like and start flying Drake or Tengu like the rest nullbear newbs. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
525
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Posted - 2012.12.06 19:24:00 -
[149] - Quote
Pitrolo Orti wrote:Instead of shooting at rocks now I shoot at my drones :P I think sleepers are way easier than some LVL 4 rooms
Hell if you thinka lvl 4 is bad now, go to null sec, find a Blood Raiders Naval Ship Yard.
Go in with spider tanking cap boosting battleships (spider tank needs cap lol) and a logi ship , all BS with at least 2 types of EWAR in an attempt to juggle aggro off the logi, set self destruct and watch your entire little fleet die long before the 1st ship can explode it's self lol. That's what I and a mate just did, dind't want those Dominixes (Dominii?) anyways (not the self destruct part, but those ships were dead long before 2 mins were up).
Thank you ccp for the "more engaging PVE", and by more engaging pve I mean "never ever gonna do a Blood 10/10 again" . CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
152
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Posted - 2012.12.06 20:04:00 -
[150] - Quote
My rebuttle to the entire WH thinly-veiled e-peen waving argument: Risk vs Reward.
If I want my drones taking WH level risks then I want to see WH level rewards at the end.
Regular drone captains who are just doing regular missions are not collecting WH level rewards, so why should they have to put up with WH level risk?
Fine, you elitist WH dwelling weirdos, we get it. We're just not as cool as you. We didn't sign up back in 2001 or whatever and don't have a billion SP and a trillion ISK to show for being bad-ass enough to live in WH space. Now step off your pedestal for a minute and try to remember that people who aren't taking the same risks as you aren't getting the same rewards, either. It's called fair trade. Our "softer" playstyle doesn't pay as much. Well guess what? We're fine with that. If we wanted the rewards that badly we would be taking those risks. But we're not, because we don't.
But now the risks of WH space have come to encroach on our nice little "comfort zone" and we're not seeing any sort of compensation for our pains. Get it?
CCP has added risk but has failed to add any reward. EvE Forum Bingo |
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