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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Rensari
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.12.05 05:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Drones die ridiculously fast now. I know their HP haven't been changed or anything, but with the new AI they get targeted en masse by rats and can die in just a few seconds.
For example, I was doing the mission Damsel in Distress with my Rattlesnake. I have maxed out drones skills and Gallente BS V. So my drones get a bunch more hit points. I put out 5x Ogre IIs and was targetting the Battleships that were orbiting me at around 3-4k. The cruisers / battlecruisers would target an Ogre II and within a few seconds it would be into structure. I was watching them like a hawk, and was able to pull them in before they died... but if they had been further than say 4k from my ship? Dead Ogres.
Even after reaggroing everything and launching them again, the same thing would happen.
This is insane. Drones are pretty much worthless against NPCs now in higher level missions or content with a lot of rats.
I understand that we want to get away from the AFK drone boat style, but fully maxed out HP Ogre IIs dying in seconds is ridiculous.
I propose that CCP reduce damage to Drones from NPCs by 95%. This way no HP changes will affect PvP. Also this way you still can't AFK as your drones will still get popped. But it will give durability to drones such that they can be useful again for attacking targets over a longer range from your ship, and a careful player will be able to micro them back and forth to the ship.
Also it would be nice to have some sort of self repairing ability to repair drones armor / hull once inside your drone bay. |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
843
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Posted - 2012.12.05 05:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
you might be doing it wrong. Adapt? Don't use ogre 2s at the start? |
Rensari
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.12.05 05:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Clearly you didn't read my post or you would have saw:
>> Even after reaggroing everything and launching them again, the same thing would happen.
I've been using drone boats in missions for years. I know how the aggro system works. You do realize CCP changed mission AI right?
From the patch notes:
>> Sleeper AI has been added to mission and belt NPCs. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
254
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Posted - 2012.12.05 05:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
I've heard people use this tactic:
1) release set of cheap T1 drones;
2) allow rats to chew couple of them - they'll become "stuffed" and start to ignore drones;
3) call out T1 drones and deploy T2.
With this new "anti-drone" AI CCP could at least implement ability to inject new drones into drone bay directly from cargo w/o parking at station. |
baltec1
Bat Country
3038
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Posted - 2012.12.05 05:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rensari wrote:Clearly you didn't read my post or you would have saw:
>> Even after reaggroing everything and launching them again, the same thing would happen.
I've been using drone boats in missions for years. I know how the aggro system works. You do realize CCP changed mission AI right?
From the patch notes:
>> Sleeper AI has been added to mission and belt NPCs.
It would seem you no longer know how it works.
Adapt. |
Darkmus Zay
Bedlam.
4
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Posted - 2012.12.05 06:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
I partially agree, my issue is how fast cruisers change target to drones. sometimes it's nearly instant and you can risk having to recall and put out drones 4 to 6 times, before you can focus down anything without interruption.
This change is putting a HUGE nerf on all drone based ratting platforms, like sentry carriers.. |
DrunkenNinja
Sefem Ortus Swift Angels Alliance
18
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Posted - 2012.12.05 06:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
I like the metaphor of drones being wet paper bags :). |
Tarn Kugisa
Infinite Covenant Tribal Band
182
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Posted - 2012.12.05 06:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
sentries I Endorse this Product and/or Service Source Recorder-esque tool for EVE |
Reidar Oskald
The 12th Legion Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
8
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Posted - 2012.12.05 06:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Rensari wrote:Drones die ridiculously fast now. I know their HP haven't been changed or anything, but with the new AI they get targeted en masse by rats and can die in just a few seconds.
For example, I was doing the mission Damsel in Distress with my Rattlesnake. I have maxed out drones skills and Gallente BS V. So my drones get a bunch more hit points. I put out 5x Ogre IIs and was targetting the Battleships that were orbiting me at around 3-4k. The cruisers / battlecruisers would target an Ogre II and within a few seconds it would be into structure. I was watching them like a hawk, and was able to pull them in before they died... but if they had been further than say 4k from my ship? Dead Ogres.
Even after reaggroing everything and launching them again, the same thing would happen.
This is insane. Drones are pretty much worthless against NPCs now in higher level missions or content with a lot of rats.
I understand that we want to get away from the AFK drone boat style, but fully maxed out HP Ogre IIs dying in seconds is ridiculous.
I propose that CCP reduce damage to Drones from NPCs by 95%. This way no HP changes will affect PvP. Also this way you still can't AFK as your drones will still get popped. But it will give durability to drones such that they can be useful again for attacking targets over a longer range from your ship, and a careful player will be able to micro them back and forth to the ship.
Also it would be nice to have some sort of self repairing ability to repair drones armor / hull once inside your drone bay.
CCP has been wanting people to get away from Soloing Level 4's, I think, and this is one of the changes. Granted, it does hurt a lot of PVE, I know in Null doing sites is more difficult due to this as well. Also, there is a 'bug' I've seen mentioned that CCP knows about and is working around for this, I won't give details but its there if you search.
Reidar |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
137
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 06:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rensari wrote:Drones die ridiculously fast now. I know their HP haven't been changed or anything, but with the new AI they get targeted en masse by rats and can die in just a few seconds.
For example, I was doing the mission Damsel in Distress with my Rattlesnake. I have maxed out drones skills and Gallente BS V. So my drones get a bunch more hit points. I put out 5x Ogre IIs and was targetting the Battleships that were orbiting me at around 3-4k. The cruisers / battlecruisers would target an Ogre II and within a few seconds it would be into structure. I was watching them like a hawk, and was able to pull them in before they died... but if they had been further than say 4k from my ship? Dead Ogres.
Even after reaggroing everything and launching them again, the same thing would happen.
This is insane. Drones are pretty much worthless against NPCs now in higher level missions or content with a lot of rats.
I understand that we want to get away from the AFK drone boat style, but fully maxed out HP Ogre IIs dying in seconds is ridiculous.
I propose that CCP reduce damage to Drones from NPCs by 95%. This way no HP changes will affect PvP. Also this way you still can't AFK as your drones will still get popped. But it will give durability to drones such that they can be useful again for attacking targets over a longer range from your ship, and a careful player will be able to micro them back and forth to the ship.
Also it would be nice to have some sort of self repairing ability to repair drones armor / hull once inside your drone bay.
This is what i said earlier today:
Spc One wrote:What patch notes don't tell you:
EXPANSION ABOUT NERFS, Because Missiles were ok for 6 years now but now they're overpowered.
a.) PVE
1. All missile ships are now obsolete (very low range and decreased damage) 2. All Drone ships are now obsolete due to new AI (your drones get targeted as soon as you deploy them) 3. All ships that rely on drones for protection against frigates are obsolete 4. NPC's tracking disruptor now affects optimal range and falloff instead of just optimal range, which makes 800mm's minmatar ships obsolete in pve. 5. All npc complexes and ark missions are now insanely hard to do, you can't use drones 6. There are only few ships that can save you from mission if you loose all of your drones and get stuck (scrambled with npc agression). 7. New meta 9 - 14 drone modules are obsolete for pve, since ai will always shoot your drones. 8. If you use marauders or other ships for guristas missions you'll get perma jammed, there's nothing you can do since you can't use drones.
b). PVP 1. All Heavy Missile ships are now obsolete 2. Drake is worst battlecruiser for pvp 3. Hurricane got nerfed so it is kinda useless now 4. Tengu now sucks compared to other t-3's 5. Very hard to gank someone ratting in low sec or 0.0 with stealth bombers or frigate since npc's will switch targets
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1828
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Posted - 2012.12.05 06:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Reidar Oskald wrote:CCP has been wanting people to get away from Soloing Level 4's, I think, and this is one of the changes. Granted, it does hurt a lot of PVE, I know in Null doing sites is more difficult due to this as well. Hm, yes. Time to think about triple rigging with drone HP bonuses. My ratting dominix alts have Gallente BS IV and Drone Durability IV... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
464
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Posted - 2012.12.05 06:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Spc One wrote:8. If you use marauders or other ships for guristas missions you'll get perma jammed, there's nothing you can do since you can't use drones.
Shouldn't the ECM compensation skills make you less likely to get jammed in the first place? I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
137
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Posted - 2012.12.05 07:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Spc One wrote:8. If you use marauders or other ships for guristas missions you'll get perma jammed, there's nothing you can do since you can't use drones.
Shouldn't the ECM compensation skills make you less likely to get jammed in the first place? Let's take paladin for example. PALADIN has 12 sensor strength, that's less than t-1 cruiser.
Omen (t-1) cruiser has 15, Paladin has 12.
So even with everything on level 5, it still is stupid and you'll get jammed 99.8% of all time. Paladin with level 5 skills has 14.4 sensor strength. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
48
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Posted - 2012.12.05 07:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
I can't wait to get into my vengeance and try out those rocket nerfs. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2091
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Posted - 2012.12.05 07:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Spc One wrote:8. If you use marauders or other ships for guristas missions you'll get perma jammed, there's nothing you can do since you can't use drones.
Shouldn't the ECM compensation skills make you less likely to get jammed in the first place?
There are missions with up to 6 ECM Elite ships, the only way to EVER do them without a Caldari ship is to dual box them. One ship sits perma jammed silly, the other does the killing. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Reidar Oskald
The 12th Legion Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
8
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Posted - 2012.12.05 07:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:I can't wait to get into my vengeance and try out those rocket nerfs.
Nerf bats=best bats. You can hit all you want, cause some tears, and no one bruises so you can't get in trouble.
I haven't tried/even really read the missile nerfs since they don't really effect me, should look into it though... I will say it seems a lot of ship types are getting hit hard with this, and hope CCP sees this and the effect it is having.
Reidar |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
2171
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 07:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Use drone HP rigs.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5691
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 07:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Use drone HP rigs.
"but then I won't be cap stable!!!!" ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. An idea for improving corp management |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1832
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Posted - 2012.12.05 07:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Reidar Oskald wrote:Mara Pahrdi wrote:I can't wait to get into my vengeance and try out those rocket nerfs. Nerf bats=best bats. You can hit all you want, cause some tears, and no one bruises so you can't get in trouble. I haven't tried/even really read the missile nerfs since they don't really effect me, should look into it though... I will say it seems a lot of ship types are getting hit hard with this, and hope CCP sees this and the effect it is having. Mostly Drake and Tengu I thought?
I mean sure some other ships use the much cried about Heavy Missiles, but those are the big ones. Unless chaps are still ratting in Caracals. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
187
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Posted - 2012.12.05 07:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
All those tears are so delicious CCP. Good job with expansion.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2091
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Posted - 2012.12.05 07:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: I mean sure some other ships use the much cried about Heavy Missiles, but those are the big ones. Unless chaps are still ratting in Caracals.
My alt does! Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
2171
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Posted - 2012.12.05 07:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Andski wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Use drone HP rigs. "but then I won't be cap stable!!!!" Heh. I would say bring a friend to feed you cap, but we both know what the answer to that one is. In all honesty I have zero remorse for mission runners who are thrown for a loop by the AI change. They have enjoyed almost 10 years of missions being laid out in the exact same format and a little bit of drone damage sends them over the edge? Pathetic. If anything they should be thanking CCP like crazy considering they will be less plagued with ninja salvagers, mind numbing game play, mind numbing game play, mind numbing game play and mind numbing game play.
God I wish I could design a new system for how missions would work. No mission would ever be the same. Close as possible PvP situations. Solo mission grinding would be the worst way to make ISK/hour. Mission runners would be far more informed on game mechanics and scenarios when it comes to PvP. Then they would not run from risk and combat and glory but embrace it!
*sigh*
If only.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
137
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Posted - 2012.12.05 08:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:All those tears are so delicious CCP. Good job with expansion.
Well people will stop doing missions and move to incursions. Missions will become abandoned and ccp will ask themselves if new npc ai was necessary. People are making isk for pvp ships from missions, but now that missions are nerfed and acting the same way as incursions, why not do incursions instead ? |
Veinnail
FinFleet Raiden.
43
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Posted - 2012.12.05 08:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
the isk isn't even that good from soloing L4s. |
Matthew97
Pro Synergy ARK.
78
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Posted - 2012.12.05 08:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
Here's an idea:
Stop AFK running Missions
Stop Using drones
The AI on bucky when I was running tests with a Domi was fine, they rarely aggro'd drones and when I noticed that they had lost lock on me, I just re-called them, waited a few seconds, and re-deployed. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5327
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Posted - 2012.12.05 08:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
But what about the clause in the eula that says missions can only ever be buffed, never nerfed? MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything. Clockwork Pineapple
3
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Posted - 2012.12.05 08:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Spc One wrote: 3. Hurricane got nerfed so it is kinda useless now
Lmao please keep making awful posts that show off how bad you are at this game
All my vagacane fits still work 100% unmodified despite the powergrid hit
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Cutter Isaacson
Nouvelle Rouvenor
2152
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Posted - 2012.12.05 09:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Spc One wrote:What patch notes don't tell you:
EXPANSION ABOUT NERFS, Because Missiles were ok for 6 years now but now they're overpowered.
a.) PVE
1. All missile ships are now obsolete (very low range and decreased damage) 2. All Drone ships are now obsolete due to new AI (your drones get targeted as soon as you deploy them) 3. All ships that rely on drones for protection against frigates are obsolete 4. NPC's tracking disruptor now affects optimal range and falloff instead of just optimal range, which makes 800mm's minmatar ships obsolete in pve. 5. All npc complexes and ark missions are now insanely hard to do, you can't use drones 6. There are only few ships that can save you from mission if you loose all of your drones and get stuck (scrambled with npc agression). 7. New meta 9 - 14 drone modules are obsolete for pve, since ai will always shoot your drones. 8. If you use marauders or other ships for guristas missions you'll get perma jammed, there's nothing you can do since you can't use drones.
b). PVP 1. All Heavy Missile ships are now obsolete 2. Drake is worst battlecruiser for pvp 3. Hurricane got nerfed so it is kinda useless now 4. Tengu now sucks compared to other t-3's 5. Very hard to gank someone ratting in low sec or 0.0 with stealth bombers or frigate since npc's will switch targets
Lets see...
PvE:
1. Golem, Raven, any ship that uses HAM's or Rockets. These all just got a nice buff making them far from useless. 2. If you literally only ever relied on drones to complete a mission you were doing it wrong anyway. 3. See above. 4. Don't fly anymore so can't comment. 5. Oh noes, things aren't easy peasy ISK printers now? That's a shame. How about you adapt? 6. As with numbers 2 and 3. You seem to be stuck in a logic loop at this point. 7. AI always shot at your drones, now they do it a little more. Drones mods are still effective, please adapt. 8. I don't even...How about not accepting the mission? Or I don't know.......take someone with you!! Would you like your nose wiped as well as your hand held?
As for the PvP side of things I am less knowledgeable and therefore not qualified to make definitive statements. But considering your "Facts" I don't think I can do any worse.
1. This is called rebalancing. People used FOTM, it gets balanced, people switch to new FOTM and so on. See a pattern? 2. See above. 3. Please qualify your assertion with some actual facts. I fly the Hurricane and it seems to work just fine for me. Adapt. 4. This is just a stupid comment. I also fly a maxed out HAMgu, believe me, it is far from useless. 5. Awww, you mean you might have to work for your kills now? That's a crying shame.....
In summation, it appears you have no idea what game you are playing. "The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
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Cambion Andedare
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.12.05 09:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
Matthew97 wrote:Here's an idea:
Stop AFK running Missions
Stop Using drones
The AI on bucky when I was running tests with a Domi was fine, they rarely aggro'd drones and when I noticed that they had lost lock on me, I just re-called them, waited a few seconds, and re-deployed. And that behaviour was clearly mentioned as a bug by developers and is not how it works now on TQ. |
Sahjahn
Nex Exercitus Raiden.
11
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Posted - 2012.12.05 09:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
+1
It is a bit rediculous at the minute, try running level 5s, fighters dieing also in seconds as 20 BS and 20 BC instantly target and unleash hell, the frigates scramming and webbing them mean you've no chance to recall them so they die.
I really hope CCP reconsiders this and allows us to use drones/fighters in missions again. |
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