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Cambion Andedare
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:33:00 -
[91] - Quote
Agent Akari wrote:Let the npc bash your ship first, then use armor repping or shield boosting, it will make enmity on your ship. Then use your drones.
I thought this is rule 101 in mmo games. Just like Tank and Healers, where healers get aggro when they heal the tank on npc. Except it doesn't seem to work that way. Frigatesized npcs switch to small drones because their sig sizes are closer together. So if you have some frigates flying around you at short range, they change targets as soon as you release your drones and they alphastrike them out of space. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10545
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 14:33:00 -
[92] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Are you sure about that? Yes. PLEX don't come into being without the expenditure of cash.
No-one plays the game for free -- at best, they play on someone else's dollar, but it is never free. All non-trial accounts are paid for. Period. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Remiel Pollard
Devlin Security Devlin Alliance
242
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 14:34:00 -
[93] - Quote
Valion Audeles wrote:So far only the PvP'ers welcome this because it HELPS them in some way by forcing mission runners to get involved on other more risky stuff.
Wrong. As a PvE mission runner myself, I fully welcome the changes.
Quote:I'm not running L4's yet, BUT this means I will have to cross train into something else now. He will be useless for the next month or so.
You should have been training for various combat strategies and tactics already, and there is no such thing as a useless character. I've watched two-day-old characters in thrashers absolutely pwn both pvp and pve.
Quote:So in that month that I can't play I need to train skills, but I can't unsub because I need to train skills to be able to play the game. Notice my dilemma?
I only see a self-imposed dilemma created by the misconception of a problem - you seem to think that there is nothing to do in EVE. That's quite amusing.
Quote:I dont really care for PvP, i like the game idea of internet space ships but not that much to invest my entire free time into grinding isk for ships.
so.... what is your isk for, then, exactly? If you don't like PvP, then why are you playing a PvP game?
Quote:Some of us like to play casuals, if the only type of player accepted by the game community is a pvp addicted basement dweller then I do not wish to be a part of that community.
if you're the type of person that insists that people who like to engage in combat with real intelligence (ie other players) as opposed to grinding away on the AI must be "addicted basement dwellers", then you're probably not all that welcome here anyway.
When you leave... can I have your stuff? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Remiel Pollard
Devlin Security Devlin Alliance
242
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 14:35:00 -
[94] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Are you sure about that? Yes. PLEX don't come into being without the expenditure of cash. No-one plays the game for free -- at best, they play on someone else's dollar, but it is never free. All non-trial accounts are paid for. Period.
Yeah, that makes sense. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Cambion Andedare
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 14:40:00 -
[95] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Valion Audeles wrote: Some of us like to play casuals, if the only type of player accepted by the game community is a pvp addicted basement dweller then I do not wish to be a part of that community.
if you're the type of person that insists that people who like to engage in combat with real intelligence (ie other players) as opposed to grinding away on the AI must be "addicted basement dwellers", then you're probably not all that welcome here anyway. Yet you were the one posting earlier in the thread (page 3) that said the game would be better without casuals and good riddance to them... Sorry to pop your soapbubble, but without us casuals the game would very likely be dead. So stop acting so elitist. |
Pantson Head
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham Industrial Technonauts
10
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:42:00 -
[96] - Quote
Instead of all the rats target switching in unison, make them act like most player fleets. Have a couple of them chasing after a random slicer 50km from the main fight, have a few firing at primary, secondary and tertiary, one guy firing on his own fc and 6 of them 3 systems behind, asking where the fleet is. |
Valion Audeles
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:42:00 -
[97] - Quote
Ok, name an activity, apart from PVP, that i can do without a few skills beforehand. Why am i here? I liked the idea and i decided to try it out. My biggest issue is that i picked just the right race for my first train skills and now I'm stuck with them until i can train into something else. Also I dont really like guns, i like missiles somewhat but i hear that got nerfed as well.
Anyway, it's not the end of the world without my 3 subs. No, you cant have my stuff, i'll just let it rot there like a testament of my past mistakes and wrong choices. |
Gillia Winddancer
Shiny Noble Crown Services
135
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:46:00 -
[98] - Quote
Cambion Andedare wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Valion Audeles wrote: Some of us like to play casuals, if the only type of player accepted by the game community is a pvp addicted basement dweller then I do not wish to be a part of that community.
if you're the type of person that insists that people who like to engage in combat with real intelligence (ie other players) as opposed to grinding away on the AI must be "addicted basement dwellers", then you're probably not all that welcome here anyway. Yet you were the one posting earlier in the thread (page 3) that said the game would be better without casuals and good riddance to them... Sorry to pop your soapbubble, but without us casuals the game would very likely be dead. So stop acting so elitist.
Sort of goes the other way around as well but for some funny reason that is always neglected. EVE is still first and foremost a MMO and a sandbox such, so just as much as you want those "elitist" players to accept your "casual" style of playing, you must also accept their style of gameplay which involves you possibly getting ganked, forced into PvP etc etc.
All sides kinda needs to learn to accept this or alternatively head to whichever direction Hello Kitty Online is at. |
Cambion Andedare
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:51:00 -
[99] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:Cambion Andedare wrote: Yet you were the one posting earlier in the thread (page 3) that said the game would be better without casuals and good riddance to them... Sorry to pop your soapbubble, but without us casuals the game would very likely be dead. So stop acting so elitist.
Sort of goes the other way around as well but for some funny reason that is always neglected. EVE is still first and foremost a MMO and a sandbox such, so just as much as you want those "elitist" players to accept your "casual" style of playing, you must also accept their style of gameplay which involves you possibly getting ganked, forced into PvP etc etc. All sides kinda needs to learn to accept this or alternatively head to whichever direction Hello Kitty Online is at. Oh i totally agree with that. Live and let (and make) die and all that stuff |
Harland White
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
53
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:53:00 -
[100] - Quote
non judgement wrote:you might be doing it wrong. Adapt? Don't use ogre 2s at the start?
Flame. |
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Konrad Kane
Dirt Nap Squad
30
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Posted - 2012.12.05 15:03:00 -
[101] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: FYI, the mission runners soloing level 4 and generating immense amounts of isk are a PROBLEM for the economy,[..]
Can you show me where CCP say this?
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Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
141
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 15:14:00 -
[102] - Quote
Troll to Reality Translator:
"Adapt" = "Conform. Become a cookie-cutter Drake/Tengu pilot like everyone else."
"switch your ship setup to buff drone hp" = "I've never actually used drones and don't realize how absurd this statement is. But I never having no idea what I'm talking about stop me from talking anyway. Just fit drone durability rigs and... umm, y'know, that other module. There is another module, right? Whatever, go buy a Drake/Tengu you pleb."
"No more AFK boat!!!" = "Although I've never actually been a drone captain, I still chose believe all of the ridiculous myths that my friends told me about them. Can we go back to whining about the HAM nerf now?"
"Now you can't solo anymore! This is intended by CCP!" = "Now you have to solo in a Drake/Tengu. This is intended by CCP!"
"switch to guns / missiles" = "Seriously, why is anyone not soloing L4s in a Drakes/Tengus?" EvE Forum Bingo |
Funky Lazers
Shin-Ra Ltd
17
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 15:29:00 -
[103] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:Troll to Reality Translator:
"Adapt" = "Conform. Become a cookie-cutter Drake/Tengu pilot like everyone else."
"switch your ship setup to buff drone hp" = "I've never actually used drones and don't realize how absurd this statement is. But I never having no idea what I'm talking about stop me from talking anyway. Just fit drone durability rigs and... umm, y'know, that other module. There is another module, right? Whatever, go buy a Drake/Tengu you pleb."
"No more AFK boat!!!" = "Although I've never actually been a drone captain, I still chose believe all of the ridiculous myths that my friends told me about them. Can we go back to whining about the HAM nerf now?"
"Now you can't solo anymore! This is intended by CCP!" = "Now you have to solo in a Drake/Tengu. This is intended by CCP!"
"switch to guns / missiles" = "Seriously, why is anyone not soloing L4s in a Drakes/Tengus?"
Lol so true about Adapt and switch to guns / missiles things.
People really have no idea about drones and missions, even when they say they do. Just like another myth how mission runners ruin ecenomy.
Actually without mission runners prices on Meta4 stuff will be very high, because no one will be supplying markets with them. |
Cambion Andedare
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 15:34:00 -
[104] - Quote
Funky Lazers wrote: Actually without mission runners prices on Meta4 stuff will be very high, because no one will be supplying markets with them.
Yeah, i hear many whine about miners and mission carebears, but i wonder how they would like their pvp if their ships and modules tripled in price |
Casirio
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
166
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 15:37:00 -
[105] - Quote
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:All those tears are so delicious CCP. Good job with expansion.
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March rabbit
Aliastra
280
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 15:55:00 -
[106] - Quote
Valion Audeles wrote:So far only the PvP'ers welcome this because it HELPS them in some way by forcing mission runners to get involved on other more risky stuff.
My point is this, I'm a new player, my mission running alt has ALL his skills dumped into drones. I'm not running L4's yet, BUT this means I will have to cross train into something else now. He will be useless for the next month or so. So in that month that I can't play I need to train skills, but I can't unsub because I need to train skills to be able to play the game. Notice my dilemma?
It's already kind of boring as a new player while I wait for skills to complete to get some basic funcionality now I have my last 2 months of training on that guy wasted, so thanks.
that was answered already so i just tell you my story. Maybe it will give you another way....
When i started Eve Online i couldn't use english properly and didn't know about russian community. So first 1-2 months it was solo game for me. OK. Money was always something tricky for me. Only after 5-6 months i got enough to spend on "useless" stuff. Time.... Well. My main idea for first year was "i can't spend 2 days to training some skill. I need something RIGHT NOW". That's funny: always being gallente armor tank i got T2 armor hardeners and reppers by 1st year of play Being drone "master" got T2 heavies after 13-15 months. Still have no skills for T2 sentries. My longest skill for 1st year was Drones 5. It was real pain to wait for 4(!!!) days.
BTW: speaking about learning skills i always disagree with those who talk "you need to sit in station until you get all learning skills to 5 because you will loose training time elsewere! For few months you are useless!". I have never had any learning skill to 5. And it was real planning to decide what do i want and should i train some learning skill to speed-up my plan. I really sure Eve Online lost some part of strategy planning with learning skills.
What about ships? Well. I never waited for "proper skill set" to fly something. Have always jumped into new ship once i've collected enough money to buy it and enough skills to activate. Some of my fits can be found in killboard (i advice to take a look to get some good laughs). However i've never waited!
TLDR: waiting for "proper skill set" to fly something is a very bad idea. It hurts you more than any AI, gankers, scammers, whatever. Just forget about such stupid idea and start to enjoy game you paid already for. |
CARB0N FIBER
Derailleurs
64
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 15:57:00 -
[107] - Quote
Konrad Kane wrote:Louis deGuerre wrote: All the new players who have put all their skillpoints into Drones and Gallente are just going to love that bit of advice.
My ratting alt has max drone skills, I'm not delighted I'm now going to have to dock up his boat until the drone UI gets buffed. However; practically speaking you'll have to bounce to a new setup or spend all day raging. CCP aren't going to change this for a while, so do something else. Good idea. I bought Dead Island, that game rocks. Granted I've only been playing for a week or 2, but not have the rules have changed yet. My baseball bat still does the samething as yesterday. I'm good. |
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9 Quantum Cafe
114
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 16:05:00 -
[108] - Quote
WOOOW - Not that I want to turn this into a WH pissing contest, I forget how easy kSpace has (HAD) it sometimes. Drones STILL kick ass, the difference now is your management of them and the combat space.
AKA situational awareness... much less autopilot. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
782
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 16:18:00 -
[109] - Quote
Veinnail wrote:the isk isn't even that good from soloing L4s.
Tell that to the null-sec moaners. This is not a signature. |
eddie valvetino
Snuff Box
76
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 16:31:00 -
[110] - Quote
BoBoZoBo wrote:WOOOW - Not that I want to turn this into a WH pissing contest, I but forget how easy kSpace has (HAD) it sometimes. Drones STILL kick ass, the difference now is your management of them and the combat space.
AKA situational awareness... much less autopilot.
With this and the new crimewatch tears.. AWESOME JOB CCP
I thought the WH dwellers would be laughing about the changes to AI and drone agression.
I have no opinion really, I guess my alt lvl4 solo/semi afk ishtar is now ******... oh well, back to extortion to make money. |
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Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
277
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 16:36:00 -
[111] - Quote
I think the problem is that most people just release drones and ignore them. Well, yeah, they're gonna die now. Drones have to be managed, even before the AI change. Watch what happens, change play style, adapt. Ran a number of missions last night with ships that I rely on drones to HELP with DPS on, and I lost one Warrior II out of five missions.
The only thing I'm still working out is the old-style "drop the Sentries and fly off" thing. Can't really do that anymore (except in my Gila) without sitting where you launched them. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1905
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 16:40:00 -
[112] - Quote
So this means that AFK missioning is dead.... what's the problem?
As for drones, it's like after a certain point you only use them to kill scrammer jammer frigates anyway. Keep them in your pocket until they get close.
One thing I learned in 6 years is, never train Gallente only. Things will always change against drone/blaster boats, even when things go good for a while, it's only a matter if time until another bending over occurs. This is why I fly mainly Minmatar and Caldari.
(Some minnie boats have some good drone bays though)
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Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
142
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 17:04:00 -
[113] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:So this means that AFK missioning is dead.... what's the problem?
Non-AFK missioning died with it. That's the problem.
EvE Forum Bingo |
Damsel in Distress
Men staring at Boobs
37
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Posted - 2012.12.05 17:09:00 -
[114] - Quote
Rensari wrote: For example, I was doing the mission Damsel in Distress with my Rattlesnake. I have maxed out drones skills and Gallente BS V. So my drones get a bunch more hit points. I put out 5x Ogre IIs and was targetting the Battleships that were orbiting me at around 3-4k. The cruisers / battlecruisers would target an Ogre II and within a few seconds it would be into structure. I was watching them like a hawk, and was able to pull them in before they died... but if they had been further than say 4k from my ship? Dead Ogres.
Sorry :( |
Amitious Turkey
The Scope Gallente Federation
38
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Posted - 2012.12.05 17:17:00 -
[115] - Quote
Wormhole pve has been this way for 3 years...and I seem to recall that even back then they wanted to expand the new AI to every npc.
So congrats on protesting a change that's been 3 years in the making. Maybe you could look up wormhole fits and adapt them to lvl4's. I like to lick things.
Haunting the forums since 03. |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
242
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 17:28:00 -
[116] - Quote
Amitious Turkey wrote:Wormhole pve has been this way for 3 years...and I seem to recall that even back then they wanted to expand the new AI to every npc. So congrats on protesting a change that's been 3 years in the making. Maybe you could look up wormhole fits and adapt them to lvl4's.
You mean like the kite fit HML Tengu they just nerfed? CCP's war on their own content won't slow down because of silly little things like players. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Toroup
Prometheus Deep Core Mining and Salvage
42
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Posted - 2012.12.05 17:29:00 -
[117] - Quote
I switched to Hobi IIs in my Rattler and used them to focus on the BCs/cruisers/frigates and used my Torps (or Cruises depending on mission) to focus on the Battleships. I had no issue running like 3 level 4s last night and didn't really have any losses - you can stuff 80 Hobis in the Rattler's drone bay. |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
242
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 17:32:00 -
[118] - Quote
Toroup wrote:I switched to Hobi IIs in my Rattler and used them to focus on the BCs/cruisers/frigates and used my Torps (or Cruises depending on mission) to focus on the Battleships. I had no issue running like 3 level 4s last night and didn't really have any losses - you can stuff 80 Hobis in the Rattler's drone bay.
You found the solution CCP was looking for.
Take longer, make less.
Waiting for ships to drop in price to reflect the new income levels. I'll get back to you in 10 years. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
492
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 17:38:00 -
[119] - Quote
Amitious Turkey wrote:Wormhole pve has been this way for 3 years...and I seem to recall that even back then they wanted to expand the new AI to every npc. So congrats on protesting a change that's been 3 years in the making. Maybe you could look up wormhole fits and adapt them to lvl4's.
Sigh, someone else that doesn't get the big picture.
Wormholes and Incursions work because they were built from scratch to work the way they do. Missions and complexes weren't. Show my the wormhole site that STARTS with 35 npc ships on the field when you warp in. Show me the wormhole anom with 13 tacking npc frigs at warp in.
What some of us suggested CCP do was fix the drone user interface and revamp missions to have fewer but more powerful rats like wormholes and incursions 1st THEN bring on the new AI. We got new AI 1st that is making Sansha and Blood Raider NPC space (for an example ) and many many other missions and complexes so annoying as to almost be undoable.
in null sec this means the frigless Forsaken hubs and like anoms are going to get WAY more crowded than they have ever been, and those things spew isk unlike anoms with frigs that slow isk making down. If you see a bunch of inflation next quarter, blame those damn npcs lol.
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
Averyia
Black Label Mafia Axiomatic Dominion
37
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 17:56:00 -
[120] - Quote
The changes to the AI changes a lot of things, drones aren't the only one. Sansha rats will now tracking disrupt you always instead of by chance. This forced me to change my apoc fitting to compensate.
I'd imagine that gallente based rats are going to be sensor dampening you to hell. That will also cause a complete change in how ships are fit.
So if you are ratting with drones... say goodbye to that or adapt. It is really that simple.
On a side note, it does appear that the Raven and other missile ships are only going to get more used. All warfare is based on deception and logistics. Battles and soldiers are secondary priorities. |
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