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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Suqq Madiq
Amarr Empire
292
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 16:55:00 -
[211] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:This is a whole load of preventable drama
pointing the fingers at the players instead of the game
It's not the game that's abusing game mechanics. It's the players. Like every other instance in the past of the players abusing game mechanics, they pay for it first and then the mechanic is fixed. This should come as no surprise to anybody. |
Radgette
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 16:56:00 -
[212] - Quote
lol i think for any future posting Mr Sreegs you should ask for the community teams permission and get them to proof read any pish you write first because you come over as a total douche in both the news item and this thread.
a more informative and less aggresively toned news item would have avoided this entire stupid thread of back and forth crap.
yes this is unintended and needs to change BUT it's been happening for what 3 years now, hardly a new occurance and also you added a NEW way to do it recently with the main faction epic arcs. doing things unintended by ccp has been happening since eve began :p
fyi i have never done it because i make more money at my pc than doing this afk and haven't trained sentries .
|
SmashTech
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 16:57:00 -
[213] - Quote
Hey Sreegs, answer me this
How much money is "too much money"?
Give me a concrete answer, not just "a lot." Bullshit rules are vague. Good ones are not. |
Antal Jozsef
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 16:59:00 -
[214] - Quote
I'm very disappointed CCP. Just wait a little bit and the forums will be filled up with requests(whines) to make other things you can do while being afk, to be made a bannable offense. AFK cloaking, AFK mining to name a few. Others have said it, but here it is again; instead of fixing, you choose banning, which is always a stupid and lazy solution, and it's not even going to work. People will find a way around it in a short time. You should be ashamed CCP...
edit: ... And this thing is around for ages, and you knew about it, and is this the best you could come up with? |
Mike Head
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:02:00 -
[215] - Quote
Fozzy Dorsai wrote:We really need to get some clarification on this from CCP. Perhaps this is some special case situation, but since I do not do complexes the differentiation isn't obvious to me. It just seems to me that sitting my Rattlesnake in a mission, letting the little sentries clean up a room, and going to the kitchen to get a bite to eat is now a banned activity as I am generating income without being at the game. And as has been pointed out, if you can tank the rats, then you can just find a large roid, point you laser at it, hit a button and do AFK mining and then starting a load of laundry is again generating income without being at the game. While I doubt either of these activities are on the ban list, I'd really like to see a blue post saying so.
Fozzy, please read the entirety of the news article. It explicitly explains that only one form of AFK activity has been banned, and that eating, peeing, and anything that doesn't require you to be inactive for 24 hour stints is acceptable.
The reason mining is acceptable is because you can't possibly fit something to be AFK for 24 hours, continually mining and never run out of room, and never ONCE be touched to jettison cargo.
Certain elements were designed to be done in an AFK fashion, such as PI and trade.
What was NOT designed to be done in an AFK fashion is camping a rat respawn for days at a time, without touching your ship or issuing further commands.
I hope this clarifies everything, and if anyone else doesn't get it, I'm fairly certain you're a troll so please troll someone else's bridge. |
SmashTech
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:04:00 -
[216] - Quote
Here's my stance on your post: get out |
Mike Head
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:04:00 -
[217] - Quote
Antal Jozsef wrote:I'm very disappointed CCP. Just wait a little bit and the forums will be filled up with requests(whines) to make other things you can do while being afk, to be made a bannable offense. AFK cloaking, AFK mining to name a few. Others have said it, but here it is again; instead of fixing, you choose banning, which is always a stupid and lazy solution, and it's not even going to work. People will find a way around it in a short time. You should be ashamed CCP...
edit: ... And this thing is around for ages, and you knew about it, and is this the best you could come up with?
You can't read. They are working on fixing it. UNTIL THEY'RE DONE FIXING IT, IT'S A BANNABLE OFFENSE.
I decided to play EVE because I was under the impression you had to have a certain level of intellectual ability to play. But if you can't read the entirety of an article and get the gist, I think you should retake the tutorial. |
Ghost Frog
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:05:00 -
[218] - Quote
it occurs to me that in order to catch people doing this, you'll have to be flagging them in some way. why not just feed the flag to the NPCs? If {player name} kills {total number of rats for 1 plex spawn} then spawn {2*[total number of rats for 1 plex spawn]} Incursion rats. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
998
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:06:00 -
[219] - Quote
Antal Jozsef wrote:I'm very disappointed CCP. Just wait a little bit and the forums will be filled up with requests(whines) to make other things you can do while being afk, to be made a bannable offense. AFK cloaking, AFK mining to name a few. Others have said it, but here it is again; instead of fixing, you choose banning, which is always a stupid and lazy solution, and it's not even going to work. People will find a way around it in a short time. You should be ashamed CCP...
edit: ... And this thing is around for ages, and you knew about it, and is this the best you could come up with?
You have failed to read the news item, failed to read the thread, and failed to even read CCP Sreegs' responses by clicking on the blue dev tags.
You should feel very bad about yourself and go sit in a corner for the next 15 minutes.
Here's your sign... |
Georgiy Giggle
REFORD Division REFORD
55
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:08:00 -
[220] - Quote
Bull sh*t. If you do not like your mechanic, maybe you should remove sentry drones from a game, hah?
Stop this cr*p! Better find out how to remove macrobots, who farm trillions per week and build cap ships every day. Bring a balance to game between real players and bots, instead of beating REAL players only!!!
BTW, are you talking about all complexes or only about rapidly-spawning npcs complexes? Not mastering proprieties, won't become firmly established. - Confucius |
|
Puissant
Tempora Heroica
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:09:00 -
[221] - Quote
Sarik Olecar wrote:Oh noez! My PI! My Market Orders! My Ice Mining!
Will I be banned too???
Seriously, if Drones weren't meant for AFK / Computer assisted play then what CCP? How much ISK could these AFK complex runners be injecting into the EVEverse? |
Naomi Shana
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:10:00 -
[222] - Quote
Mike Head wrote:Fozzy Dorsai wrote:We really need to get some clarification on this from CCP. Perhaps this is some special case situation, but since I do not do complexes the differentiation isn't obvious to me. It just seems to me that sitting my Rattlesnake in a mission, letting the little sentries clean up a room, and going to the kitchen to get a bite to eat is now a banned activity as I am generating income without being at the game. And as has been pointed out, if you can tank the rats, then you can just find a large roid, point you laser at it, hit a button and do AFK mining and then starting a load of laundry is again generating income without being at the game. While I doubt either of these activities are on the ban list, I'd really like to see a blue post saying so. Fozzy, please read the entirety of the news article. It explicitly explains that only one form of AFK activity has been banned, and that eating, peeing, and anything that doesn't require you to be inactive for 24 hour stints is acceptable. The reason mining is acceptable is because you can't possibly fit something to be AFK for 24 hours, continually mining and never run out of room, and never ONCE be touched to jettison cargo. Certain elements were designed to be done in an AFK fashion, such as PI and trade. What was NOT designed to be done in an AFK fashion is camping a rat respawn for days at a time, without touching your ship or issuing further commands. I hope this clarifies everything, and if anyone else doesn't get it, I'm fairly certain you're a troll so please troll someone else's bridge.
You're missing points as well.
Sreegs has said that you CAN sit in a belt letting your drones kill rats all day while afk but you CAN'T do the same exact thing in some specific missions because of the difference in income.
That boner, plus the plain old :CCP: knee-jerk heavy-handedness of "let's punish players for using what we've given them instead of addressing the code issue", has everyone concerned. |
Ghost Frog
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:11:00 -
[223] - Quote
Mike Head wrote:Antal Jozsef wrote:I'm very disappointed CCP. Just wait a little bit and the forums will be filled up with requests(whines) to make other things you can do while being afk, to be made a bannable offense. AFK cloaking, AFK mining to name a few. Others have said it, but here it is again; instead of fixing, you choose banning, which is always a stupid and lazy solution, and it's not even going to work. People will find a way around it in a short time. You should be ashamed CCP...
edit: ... And this thing is around for ages, and you knew about it, and is this the best you could come up with? You can't read. They are working on fixing it. UNTIL THEY'RE DONE FIXING IT, IT'S A BANNABLE OFFENSE. I decided to play EVE because I was under the impression you had to have a certain level of intellectual ability to play. But if you can't read the entirety of an article and get the gist, I think you should retake the tutorial. Perhaps your intellect isn't as sharp as you would like to believe. I was under the impression that everyone knew that the EVE forums were heavily populated with players looking to spin various arguments for their own purposes. "Meta" and all that. IF YOU READ CAREFULLY, MAYBE YOU WILL FIGURE IT OUT. But I doubt it. |
Kyle Frost
Atlantean Defense Fleet In Umbra Mortis
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:13:00 -
[224] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:Reading skill are not at 5 for a lot of posters here.
/me sad....
QFT
TLDR:
Everybody who is blaming CCP or whining about GÇ£the sandboxGÇ¥ GÇô get a f*****g clue!
Solution to the problem GÇô revise COSMOS missions and complexes. They havenGÇÖt been touched since they were implemented, and that was how long ago GÇô 6-7 years? Increase the rewards from COSMOS missions GÇô most of the storyline modules you receive are worthless and way too expensive to build. At the same time, increase the difficulty of the COSMOS missions GÇô make the NPCs tougher, maybe give them Sleeper-like AI. Turn COSMOS missions into a real end-game PvE content.
Long, idiot friendly version:
I canGÇÖt believe I am going to agree with a goon and defend CCP, but I am still not at the point where I will call the white color black, just because I donGÇÖt like it. So here it goesGǪ
Almost all legitimate (which do not include a third party automation software and will NOT get you banned) AFK activities in EVE are limited by game mechanics or by the EVE players themselves. For example - every afk miner has to empty his cargohold manually after a period of time (40 minutes or so), every afk mission runner has to manually move his ship to the next pocket after clearing the one he is currently in, afk ratting in 0.0 gets you killed and so on. The people that CCPGÇÖs message was addressed to, are not limited by game mechanics and they were exploiting this. So even though this was not made very clear in the original message, everyone with simple powers of deduction should have been able to reach this logical conclusion. For the special boys GÇô AFK MINING/MISSIONING IS NOT THE SAME AS AFK FARMING A COSMOS COMPLEX.
I can think of at least 3 or 4 complexes in the Caldari and Amarr COSMOS constellations which can be farmed by utilizing the sentry drones tactic. I guess there are some complexes in the Gallente and Minmatar constellations as well. The reason why there are BS-sized rats with high bounties spawning in those places, is because they are part of lvl 3-4 COSMOS missions and should pose an appropriate challenge. The reason why the rats respawn inside the complex constantly, is so that player B can come in, run the plex, and get his mission item after player A has done so before him. Keep in mind, that some of those complexes are not there solely for the purpose of certain missions, but they also provide you with tools and materials for producing the storyline items. For the special boys GÇô THE COMPLEXES ARE SERVING THEIR PURPOSE JUST FINE. (HINT GÇô THEIR PURPOSE IS NOT TO PROVIDE YOU WITH FREE ISK 23/7)
And now for all those wiseguys (like Jame Jarl Retief), saying this is CCPGÇÖs fault, they broke it, they should fix it, leave the AFK-ers alone, etc. THE COSMOS COMPLEXES ARE NOT BROKEN! They might be obsolete and in need of an update, but they are not broken. They served their purpose for a very long time. So before you start bitching, and whining, and pointing fingers again, please consider the following:
1. When COSMOS missions/complexes were first implemented 7 years ago, there were no passive tanked drone boats! The Gila and the Rattlesnake didnGÇÖt have drone and shield resist bonuses. The Ishtar was around, but back then there were no sentry drones. So NO, jackass GÇô I guess it didnGÇÖt occur to them that something like this could happen.
2. EVE is the largest, most diverse, player populated game universe. Creating and updating content for this universe is not exactly easy. If the devs could anticipate all the possible scenarios and how players would react in every given situation, they probably wouldnGÇÖt be bothering with EVE anymore GÇô they would be playing the stock market and winning millionsGǪ hey, Iceland probably wouldnGÇÖt have gone bankrupt.
Could this issue have been looked at and fixed earlier GÇô yeah, probably. But CCP seems to be on the right track now, so how about we cut them some slack?
And whoever suggested the GÇ£fixGÇ¥ with turning off drone automatic switching of targets GÇô thatGÇÖs a brilliant idea! As if drones are not stupid and irresponsive enough as it is, letGÇÖs make them even dumberGǪ genius!
P.S. When I first visited the EVE forums 6 years ago, I was impressed with how mature and sensible people were. Today, itGÇÖs like I am looking at a WoW forum, only with less leet-speak (for which I guess I should be grateful). Whining and stupidity all aroundGǪ the EVE world is going to hell, just like the real one. Any suggestions on how to fix that? Let the gun do the talking! |
Suqq Madiq
Amarr Empire
292
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:13:00 -
[225] - Quote
Georgiy Giggle wrote:Bring a balance to game between real players and bots, instead of beating REAL players only!!!
You think these players who park their Sentry ships in PLEXes 23hrs / day, 7days / week are real players. That's your problem. They're no better than bots and deserve to be banned. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
270
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:14:00 -
[226] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: I'm merely going to quote this. It's not going to please everyone and certainly not going to please those who were making isk while going about their lives doing things other than playing EVE actively but at the end of the day we're only referring to situations in THIS PARTICULAR CASE where you could in theory generate isk 24 hours a day without ever touching your computer. This does not apply to every situation you might perhaps maybe possibly use sentry drones in and nobody's going to ban your accounts because you went to get a cup of coffee.
There were however cases where this was being abused and so we're stating publically that abusing it is wrong and from this point forward the automated systems will handle it.
Protip for the future: if your computer is logged in 24 (or way more than a person can) hours a day making money in a way that is meant to be active and you're not in front of it you're probably doing something wrong
Protip for CCPs higher ups if your PvE has withered so bad and is prone to such 'exploights' then it needs a serious revamp. In CCP Unifex's last interview he was proud & crowing over only having 4 content designers in his employ while having many programmers. How about putting these programmers to work on the content so we don't have these issues... like say immediately start implementing sleeper & Incursion AI on missions & complexes you don't see these being AFK'd now do you? This is not a case of the players doing something wrong this is a case of CCP doing something wrong. =========================================================
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
303
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:15:00 -
[227] - Quote
Ghost Frog wrote:You can't read. They are working on fixing it. UNTIL THEY'RE DONE FIXING IT, IT'S A BANNABLE OFFENSE.
they had about half a year (from the point where their false positives started to get discussed in GD) to fix it already, so what makes you think that they will actually take the hard route (digging through old & nasty code) instead of trying to keep the bandaid around for as long as possible? I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
Sexy Cakes
Poasting
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:15:00 -
[228] - Quote
The level of reading comprehension in this thread is pathetic.
I'm not sure if you can take what Sreegs is saying out of context anymore than you idiots are. |
SmashTech
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
78
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:15:00 -
[229] - Quote
Seriously Sreegs, how much money is too much money? |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1000
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:15:00 -
[230] - Quote
Naomi Shana wrote:That boner, plus the plain old :CCP: knee-jerk heavy-handedness of "let's punish players for using what we've given them instead of addressing the code issue", has everyone concerned.
Except for the part where they said they're working on a way to fix the plexs that cause this issue, right?
Or is it more fun to pretend you didn't read that part so you can complain louder and look sillier? Here's your sign... |
|
Daisy Vinthyn
Cassandra's Light
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:18:00 -
[231] - Quote
I've been "out of game" for about two years now but still log in to keep my skills changed. It appears in that two year span all the new players that have joined the game have the comprehension skills of a turtle. |
Naomi Shana
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:21:00 -
[232] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Naomi Shana wrote:That boner, plus the plain old :CCP: knee-jerk heavy-handedness of "let's punish players for using what we've given them instead of addressing the code issue", has everyone concerned. Except for the part where they said they're working on a way to fix the plexs that cause this issue, right? Or is it more fun to pretend you didn't read that part so you can complain louder and look sillier?
Damage control detected.
CCP alt?
Yes, CCP says they are working on it. But that doesn't change the fact that they are going to punish players for doing something over HERE that's perfectly fine to do over THERE. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1000
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:23:00 -
[233] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Ghost Frog wrote:You can't read. They are working on fixing it. UNTIL THEY'RE DONE FIXING IT, IT'S A BANNABLE OFFENSE.
they had about half a year (from the point where their false positives started to get discussed in GD) to fix it already, so what makes you think that they will actually take the hard route (digging through old & nasty code) instead of trying to keep the bandaid around for as long as possible?
I'd say the fact that they haven't implemented any of the quick and dirty half-baked suggestions that keep cropping up in this thread points to CCP digging through the old nasty code and looking for a way to genuinely improve it rather than slap a bandaid fix into the code.
Also - this probably isn't the highest priority in the world as far as programming time goes.
If CCP tells you "don't put your hand in the oven too long, you'll get burned", a reasonable human being ought to be able to understand and heed this warning until child-proof locks can be put on the oven door.
Here's your sign... |
Suqq Madiq
Amarr Empire
292
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:26:00 -
[234] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:immediately start implementing sleeper & Incursion AI on missions & complexes you don't see these being AFK'd now do you? This is not a case of the players doing something wrong this is a case of CCP doing something wrong.
This is most definitely a case of the players doing something wrong. That you can't see or comprehend that is down to your own narrow-sightedness. The mechanics that prevent Sleeper and Incursion sites from being AFK farmed 23 hours a day have absolutely nothing to do with what allows static PLEXes to be AFK farmed for 23 hours a day. Giving the static PLEX NPCs Sleeper AI would do nothing to curb this botting problem. Banning the botters will. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
345
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:26:00 -
[235] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Naomi Shana wrote:That boner, plus the plain old :CCP: knee-jerk heavy-handedness of "let's punish players for using what we've given them instead of addressing the code issue", has everyone concerned. Except for the part where they said they're working on a way to fix the plexs that cause this issue, right? Or is it more fun to pretend you didn't read that part so you can complain louder and look sillier? Most of what you've been claiming in this thread is completely disproven by the actual sequence of events at issue. |
Antal Jozsef
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:27:00 -
[236] - Quote
Ghost Frog wrote:Mike Head wrote:Antal Jozsef wrote:I'm very disappointed CCP. Just wait a little bit and the forums will be filled up with requests(whines) to make other things you can do while being afk, to be made a bannable offense. AFK cloaking, AFK mining to name a few. Others have said it, but here it is again; instead of fixing, you choose banning, which is always a stupid and lazy solution, and it's not even going to work. People will find a way around it in a short time. You should be ashamed CCP...
edit: ... And this thing is around for ages, and you knew about it, and is this the best you could come up with? You can't read. They are working on fixing it. UNTIL THEY'RE DONE FIXING IT, IT'S A BANNABLE OFFENSE. I decided to play EVE because I was under the impression you had to have a certain level of intellectual ability to play. But if you can't read the entirety of an article and get the gist, I think you should retake the tutorial. Perhaps your intellect isn't as sharp as you would like to believe. I was under the impression that everyone knew that the EVE forums were heavily populated with players looking to spin various arguments for their own purposes. "Meta" and all that. IF YOU READ CAREFULLY, MAYBE YOU WILL FIGURE IT OUT. But I doubt it.
And thats exactly why ccp should not do things like this. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
345
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:27:00 -
[237] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:immediately start implementing sleeper & Incursion AI on missions & complexes you don't see these being AFK'd now do you? This is not a case of the players doing something wrong this is a case of CCP doing something wrong. This is most definitely a case of the players doing something wrong. That you can't see or comprehend that is down to your own narrow-sightedness. The mechanics that prevent Sleeper and Incursion sites from being AFK farmed 23 hours a day have absolutely nothing to do with what allows static PLEXes to be AFK farmed for 23 hours a day. Giving the static PLEX NPCs Sleeper AI would do nothing to curb this botting problem. Banning the botters will. There is, according to everyone involved, no bots involved here. This is not botting. It never has been botting. It never will be botting. |
Antal Jozsef
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:29:00 -
[238] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:immediately start implementing sleeper & Incursion AI on missions & complexes you don't see these being AFK'd now do you? This is not a case of the players doing something wrong this is a case of CCP doing something wrong. This is most definitely a case of the players doing something wrong. That you can't see or comprehend that is down to your own narrow-sightedness. The mechanics that prevent Sleeper and Incursion sites from being AFK farmed 23 hours a day have absolutely nothing to do with what allows static PLEXes to be AFK farmed for 23 hours a day. Giving the static PLEX NPCs Sleeper AI would do nothing to curb this botting problem. Banning the botters will.
They are banning the botters for years, thats why we don't have any oh wait... |
SmashTech
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
79
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:36:00 -
[239] - Quote
can someone point out for me where the automatic keystroke and mouseclick generation parts are
because I must have missed them |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1001
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:38:00 -
[240] - Quote
Naomi Shana wrote:War Kitten wrote:Naomi Shana wrote:That boner, plus the plain old :CCP: knee-jerk heavy-handedness of "let's punish players for using what we've given them instead of addressing the code issue", has everyone concerned. Except for the part where they said they're working on a way to fix the plexs that cause this issue, right? Or is it more fun to pretend you didn't read that part so you can complain louder and look sillier? Damage control detected. CCP alt?
CCP Common Sense** - You caught me!
** - not really, afaik, there is no one in CCP with Common Sense ++
++ - with Common Sense as their nickname that is!
:)
Honestly, I'm not a CCP alt, never worked for CCP, and am totally not impersonating anyone in any shape or form. When I think they deserve a good bashing, I'll bash 'em. When I think CCP is doing it right and people on the forums are being idiots, I'll speak up then too.
This would be another one of the "then too" moments. Here's your sign... |
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