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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Vrykolakasis
Trinity Operations Aurora Irae
49
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:42:00 -
[91] - Quote
CCP is making the very obtuse assumption that I require sleep. |
Damion Rayne
Lorentz Technology Group
107
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:44:00 -
[92] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Velarra wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:The core of the logic that's actually being applied here is that this only applies to fringe cases and anyone engaging in normal gameplay is completely unaffected.
Clearly the news item wasn't clear enough about that so I've had it edited. Within the context of this ruling, what is normal game play as regards shipping of goods? Fill up Freighter / Industrial with goods in cargo, set AP route for 50 jumps. How many of those jumps can be done fully AP'd? How many does a pilot have to be at the keys for? Nothing in this news article even remotely hints at anything remotely related to hauling or really any other activity that isn't farming plexes while unattended.
I honestly and whole hardheartedly believe you have NO clue what you're doing. I'm going to go out on a limb here and publicly denounce pretty much everything you say. I run plexes in 0.0 when I was in Test and Dark Rising and you are now effectively telling me that running those plexs with a drone boat, and going afk, is against the rules? I've got NO confidence in you as a Dev Sreegs, None. Teamwork.. Maturity.. Tactics.. www.tacticalgamer.com |
Brokers Clone
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:44:00 -
[93] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:If you are aware of a way for miners to mine AFK with no third party programs 24 hours a day without being at their machines and managing cargo then I'm all ears.
Enter belt with uuber-tanked ship and some nice shiney drones Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty etc...etc...etc... |
Damion Rayne
Lorentz Technology Group
107
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:46:00 -
[94] - Quote
Brokers Clone wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:If you are aware of a way for miners to mine AFK with no third party programs 24 hours a day without being at their machines and managing cargo then I'm all ears. Enter belt with uuber-tanked ship and some nice shiney drones Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty etc...etc...etc...
This Sreegs, you obviously don't play the game anymore mate. Teamwork.. Maturity.. Tactics.. www.tacticalgamer.com |
Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
36
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:47:00 -
[95] - Quote
Go Sreegs! \o/ |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
86
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:48:00 -
[96] - Quote
So this does not apply to afk mining, right? Or will afk mining be punished eventually too? Just curious. |
Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
36
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:48:00 -
[97] - Quote
Damion Rayne wrote:I run plexes in 0.0 when I was in Test and Dark Rising and you are now effectively telling me that running those plexs with a drone boat, and going afk, is against the rules? It's not and you are an idiot for thinking so.
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Febreeze
Pentergy
1
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:50:00 -
[98] - Quote
This news briefing was not well thought out, easy to misinterrpret and not overly useful. If there is some way to safely afk plex with some drones out and the drones arent being killed off and some how you are safe from PVP there is an issue that should be resolved instead of posting this confusing and aggrevating news brief.
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Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
654
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:50:00 -
[99] - Quote
Reading skill are not at 5 for a lot of posters here.
/me sad.... Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
Freelancer117
so you want to be a Hero
34
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:50:00 -
[100] - Quote
How nice of CCP that they tell their costumers what they can do with their product.
We even got permission to play the sandbox game a little from CCP Screegs.
I would have rather see a more diplomatic text from that new Marketing guy then an ex-Goon.
And no mention about how the the new barges will be monitored with their large ore holds. Eve Radio |
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1812
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:50:00 -
[101] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Dregol wrote:The "going to do your laundry" bit implies that doing any form of ratting whilst not sitting directly at your computer is now illegal. I mean, what if I have a dominix in an anom, and I go to get a drink or make a sandwich? With your definition, it makes it sound like any and all drone activity while you're not at your computer is a bannable offence.
it's fairly obvious that...
Dude don't overstimate MMO players or their inability to know the game. There's still people posting confused threads about why their Hulk started "behaving strange" since Inferno 1.2...
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Damion Rayne
Lorentz Technology Group
107
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:52:00 -
[102] - Quote
Lucas Quaan wrote:Damion Rayne wrote:I run plexes in 0.0 when I was in Test and Dark Rising and you are now effectively telling me that running those plexs with a drone boat, and going afk, is against the rules? It's not and you are an idiot for thinking so.
You're an idiot for thinking it's wrong, I've got a child to take care of. You're telling me I'm not allowed to put out sentry drones, run a single plex afk, move to the next plex and do it again? What kinda fascist control crap is this? Well since i can't be at the key's 100% of my play time now, and Sreegs will ban me or something, If I walk away for 10 minuets, suppose I just stop logging in unless I can be at the keyboard for 6 hours straight. I'm sure my wife and 2 month old will enjoy my lack of being able to walk away from the computer. Ya know, because Id' rather net have "administrative action" taken against my account for walkign away for an hour. Teamwork.. Maturity.. Tactics.. www.tacticalgamer.com |
Ryakel
The Royal Guard Imperial Hull Tankers
0
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:53:00 -
[103] - Quote
OK, so EVE players may be able to get away with ducking out to nuke a hotpocket or a bowl of ramen, maybe even crack open a bottle of beer and/or drop a deuce. So help me though, if CCP catches you taking a shower or doing laundry or ironing, rest assured this violates the EULA.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1812
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 14:53:00 -
[104] - Quote
Legiolith wrote:It's a sandbox. You put in the mechanics and we make the most of them. If a plex is broken, fix it, don't throw bs around that you will ban people for afk'ing while playing this game as 90% of the damn game can be accomplished while beeing afk. INCLUDING SKILL TRAINING, TRADING, MINING etc...
For the record, I dont do this myself and I think it's f'ed up that you can do it. But if you play by the rules, ie. the game mechanics that are not broken, then you should not be banned for it.
So man the f up and change the plex(es?) in question so you can't do it for 23/7 and stop being a-holes and remove that ******** post about banning players for playing by the rules introduced by you. And we will pretend that his never happened and move on...
DO NOT BREAK THIS GAME! I enjoy it. And I am all that matters.
Love, Legio
They do this exactly to avoid "BREAK THIS GAME". COSMOS code is older than a dinosaur, it's some of that stuff you don't ever want to look at it again, and changing a *comment* in the source code might suddenly bug a random part of the game and make Avatars look like a giant phallus. Oh wait... Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
302
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 14:55:00 -
[105] - Quote
You discover an issue with game design that allows for unintended consequences. Now you can
(A) Fix game design so the unintended consequences can no longer happen. (B) Leave the "trick" in the game but ban everyone who uses it.
Takes a special kind of developer to choose (B).
This issue has been known for months and yet there is no proper fix (rework static plexes), instead we get a honeytrap because Sreegs just enjoys blowing up AT ships and banning unsuspecting players.
The very least you could do is give us an official database of behaviors that are consciously made possible but CCP but will get you banned - this news article and discussion thread will be buried in a few weeks and smart players will keep rediscovering this "exploit" over and over. I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1812
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 14:55:00 -
[106] - Quote
Caellach Marellus wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote: He isn't talking about missions
Pity, AFK missioners should get whacked with the same thing.
Missions are clearly static and their NPCs clearly respawn... Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
332
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 14:56:00 -
[107] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: Protip for the future: if your computer is logged in 24 (or way more than a person can) hours a day making money in a way that is meant to be active and you're not in front of it you're probably doing something wrong
Why is this being handled by Team Security instead of the GM team? It appears Team Security's only involvement in this case should be clearing the false positive botting mark against the account, then turning it over to the GM team which is in charge of determining what is and is not an exploit when no bots/hacks/etc is involved. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
332
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 15:00:00 -
[108] - Quote
I mean "the automated systems handling it" isn't something you've decided on as the proper way to handle non-bot eula violations: it's that the automated systems are creating a false positive and you're refusing to fix it. This isn't a botting issue, and it shouldn't be being handled by the botting team.
The algorithm ****** up. It should be fixed, not defined as "not ******* up" and team security taking over part of GM responsibilities instead of fixing it.
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Damion Rayne
Lorentz Technology Group
108
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 15:02:00 -
[109] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:You discover an issue with game design that allows for unintended consequences. Now you can
(A) Fix game design so the unintended consequences can no longer happen. (B) Leave the "trick" in the game but ban everyone who uses it.
Takes a special kind of developer to choose (B).
This issue has been well known for months and yet there is no proper fix (rework static plexes), instead we get a honeytrap because Sreegs just enjoys blowing up AT ships and banning unsuspecting players.
The very least you could do is give us an official database of behaviors that are consciously made possible but CCP but will get you banned - this news article and discussion thread will be buried in a few weeks (and compete for attention with many prior GD threads which generally declared this behavior legal) and smart players will keep rediscovering this "exploit" over and over.
Agreed with pretty much all of this. Teamwork.. Maturity.. Tactics.. www.tacticalgamer.com |
nahjustwarpin
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
32
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:04:00 -
[110] - Quote
Damion Rayne wrote:Lucas Quaan wrote:Damion Rayne wrote:I run plexes in 0.0 when I was in Test and Dark Rising and you are now effectively telling me that running those plexs with a drone boat, and going afk, is against the rules? It's not and you are an idiot for thinking so. You're an idiot for thinking it's wrong, I've got a child to take care of. You're telling me I'm not allowed to put out sentry drones, run a single plex afk, move to the next plex and do it again? What kinda fascist control crap is this? Well since i can't be at the key's 100% of my play time now, and Sreegs will ban me or something, If I walk away for 10 minuets, suppose I just stop logging in unless I can be at the keyboard for 6 hours straight. I'm sure my wife and 2 month old will enjoy my lack of being able to walk away from the computer. Ya know, because Id' rather net have "administrative action" taken against my account for walkign away for an hour.
read the damn topic!
it's about a specific cosmos plex and not general nullsec anoms...... |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
2020
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 15:06:00 -
[111] - Quote
Damion Rayne wrote:Brokers Clone wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:If you are aware of a way for miners to mine AFK with no third party programs 24 hours a day without being at their machines and managing cargo then I'm all ears. Enter belt with uuber-tanked ship and some nice shiney drones Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty etc...etc...etc... This Sreegs, you obviously don't play the game anymore mate.
Except that he stated mining then used ratting as an example, which would certainly still be detected and fall into the same category. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
2020
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:08:00 -
[112] - Quote
Damion Rayne wrote:Lucas Quaan wrote:Damion Rayne wrote:I run plexes in 0.0 when I was in Test and Dark Rising and you are now effectively telling me that running those plexs with a drone boat, and going afk, is against the rules? It's not and you are an idiot for thinking so. You're an idiot for thinking it's wrong, I've got a child to take care of. You're telling me I'm not allowed to put out sentry drones, run a single plex afk, move to the next plex and do it again? What kinda fascist control crap is this? Well since i can't be at the key's 100% of my play time now, and Sreegs will ban me or something, If I walk away for 10 minuets, suppose I just stop logging in unless I can be at the keyboard for 6 hours straight. I'm sure my wife and 2 month old will enjoy my lack of being able to walk away from the computer. Ya know, because Id' rather net have "administrative action" taken against my account for walkign away for an hour.
What you're referring to was never mentioned in the news item. You're deciding for yourself what the news item means and applying it in a way that is not what is discussed. This has been edited in the news item and repeated more than once in this thread, but you're still deciding that I'm staring through the internet at you waiting for you to walk away from your PC instead of what the content of the news article is really about which is extreme and isolated scenarios where people are able to login at downtime, release sentries, and go do something else until the next downtime. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
335
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 15:09:00 -
[113] - Quote
100% passive income has been a part of this game since datacore agents were invented, and especially since PI was introduced. Both allow you to make money with less "at the keyboard"ness than this.
It's not a team security issue and team security has no business declaring it botting: it should be punted to the GM team and the game design team for exploit determinations and fixing respectively. The GM team exists to make consistent decisions that respect previous decisions on how the game can be played, and to provide the proper layers of asking things be looked at again by a fresh set of eyes. It has no business being the province of an algorithm gone rogue. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
986
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 15:11:00 -
[114] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:Reading skill are not at 5 for a lot of posters here.
/me sad....
On the other hand, thick-skull 5 and idiot 6 seems to be common enough.
People see the letters AFK and go all apeshit thinking it applies to every possible way to be AFK.
Here's your sign... |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
335
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 15:11:00 -
[115] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: What you're referring to was never mentioned in the news item. You're deciding for yourself what the news item means and applying it in a way that is not what is discussed. This has been edited in the news item and repeated more than once in this thread, but you're still deciding that I'm staring through the internet at you waiting for you to walk away from your PC instead of what the content of the news article is really about which is extreme and isolated scenarios where people are able to login at downtime, release sentries, and go do something else until the next downtime.
If you think it's an exploit, then the GM team should be alerted to the details and allowed to handle it as they see fit. We're all 100% clear it's not a bot, it's not RMT, it's not a hack, and so there's no reason for team security to be involved. |
Damion Rayne
Lorentz Technology Group
109
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:11:00 -
[116] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Damion Rayne wrote:Brokers Clone wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:If you are aware of a way for miners to mine AFK with no third party programs 24 hours a day without being at their machines and managing cargo then I'm all ears. Enter belt with uuber-tanked ship and some nice shiney drones Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty etc...etc...etc... This Sreegs, you obviously don't play the game anymore mate. Except that he stated mining then used ratting as an example, which would certainly still be detected and fall into the same category.
It's the same bloody thing! Let me give you an example,
I park my hulk in a belt, target roids, put out some drones and practically go afk watching tv on net flix while only every so often switching clients to have my alt come pick up a load. The main account is for all intents, AFK..pretty sure the way I understand how you're handling things lately, you'd ban us from doing this to eventually. I mean come on...what's the exact details of this?
What do you define as "Normal Game-play", because I'd like to know. I've been online for 12-13 hour sessions before, and I know other people have. Teamwork.. Maturity.. Tactics.. www.tacticalgamer.com |
Fatbear
Starwinders The Unwilling.
5
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:12:00 -
[117] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:You discover an issue with game design that allows for unintended consequences. Now you can
(A) Fix game design so the unintended consequences can no longer happen. (B) Leave the "trick" in the game but ban everyone who uses it.
Takes a special kind of developer to choose (B).
This issue has been well known for months and yet there is no proper fix (rework static plexes), instead we get a honeytrap because Sreegs just enjoys blowing up AT ships and banning unsuspecting players.
The very least you could do is give us an official database of behaviors that are consciously made possible but CCP but will get you banned - this news article and discussion thread will be buried in a few weeks (and compete for attention with many prior GD threads which generally declared this behavior legal) and smart players will keep rediscovering this "exploit" over and over.
edit: on a related note: the drama around the recent give-aways (many people missing the deadlines as they never read the news items) has clearly shown that login screen items and news are not a suitable way to reach out to the EVE playerbase. Using this medium to spread information that is vital to players is asinine.
Most sensible post in this thread.
That aside, this is a monstrous example of poor developer posting and mismanagement of information. Created a s**t-storm over a limited bug/exploit, rattling the cages of plenty of innocent/uninvolved players. Far better option would've been to just fix the sodding problem and not panic every drone using high-seccer into a meltdown. |
Legiolith
Hard Knocks Inc.
0
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:12:00 -
[118] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Legiolith wrote:It's a sandbox. You put in the mechanics and we make the most of them. If a plex is broken, fix it, don't throw bs around that you will ban people for afk'ing while playing this game as 90% of the damn game can be accomplished while beeing afk. INCLUDING SKILL TRAINING, TRADING, MINING etc...
For the record, I dont do this myself and I think it's f'ed up that you can do it. But if you play by the rules, ie. the game mechanics that are not broken, then you should not be banned for it.
So man the f up and change the plex(es?) in question so you can't do it for 23/7 and stop being a-holes and remove that ******** post about banning players for playing by the rules introduced by you. And we will pretend that his never happened and move on...
DO NOT BREAK THIS GAME! I enjoy it. And I am all that matters.
Love, Legio They do this exactly to avoid "BREAK THIS GAME". COSMOS code is older than a dinosaur, it's some of that stuff you don't ever want to look at it again, and changing a *comment* in the source code might suddenly bug a random part of the game and make Avatars look like a giant phallus. Oh wait...
Haha, well I am happy that you spend most of your time messing with your avatars looks and that it's of a big concern to you. However for the rest of us that don't play "Dress Up My Little Pony" during downtime, "BREAK THIS GAME" means CCP telling us how to play a SANDBOX game. And old code is no excuse... |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
986
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 15:13:00 -
[119] - Quote
Damion Rayne wrote:Lucas Quaan wrote:Damion Rayne wrote:I run plexes in 0.0 when I was in Test and Dark Rising and you are now effectively telling me that running those plexs with a drone boat, and going afk, is against the rules? It's not and you are an idiot for thinking so. You're an idiot for thinking it's wrong, I've got a child to take care of. You're telling me I'm not allowed to put out sentry drones, run a single plex afk, move to the next plex and do it again? What kinda fascist control crap is this? Well since i can't be at the key's 100% of my play time now, and Sreegs will ban me or something, If I walk away for 10 minuets, suppose I just stop logging in unless I can be at the keyboard for 6 hours straight. I'm sure my wife and 2 month old will enjoy my lack of being able to walk away from the computer. Ya know, because Id' rather net have "administrative action" taken against my account for walkign away for an hour.
I would just like to have one thing clarified...
Is this the character with which you go AFK on to do your plexing?
Inquiring locator agents want to know... Here's your sign... |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
2020
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:14:00 -
[120] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:100% passive income has been a part of this game since datacore agents were invented, and especially since PI was introduced. Both allow you to make money with less "at the keyboard"ness than this.
It's not a team security issue and team security has no business declaring it botting: it should be punted to the GM team and the game design team for exploit determinations and fixing respectively. The GM team exists to make consistent decisions that respect previous decisions on how the game can be played, and to provide the proper layers of asking things be looked at again by a fresh set of eyes. It has no business being the province of an algorithm gone rogue.
Nobody ever said anything about passive income. Every example of passive income mentioned thus far has been designed purposely to be so. This was not. It becomes a security issue when it is egregious enough to be virtually identical to botting. The GM team is aware of this news item and the details and the game design team has committed to fixing the problem.
If you have some insight that I don't as to what is or isn't my team's responsibility however please feel free to clue me in because it seems to differ from that of my boss. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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