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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.02.08 10:57:00 -
[451]
Originally by: Proxyyyy Merdaneath knows his limitions but went after a dram anyways and he's now on the "over powered" train when a 200mm/Repper claw or 400mmplate claw with or without a ab can take him out everytime! Why didnt he come to the conclusion that the claw is omg overpowered?
Without actually making the effort and trying, any sort of argumentation becomes exceedingly hard to justify. Claw is not OP since there are numerous ways to defeat them without having to go to extreme lengths. It shouldn't be able to fit a cruiser plate though .. 400mm fit is just gay as hell MWD version can not defeat the AB Crusader, speed difference is too great, scorched to death. AB version you avoid unless in a kiting setup, scorched to death. Only caveat is that the Crusader might need to use an explosive resist rather than omni, a marginal change to base fit. QED.
I have tried most possible variations of the Slicer and have yet to find one that can kill a Dramiel, can get close but either you cap out, you die or he evades (ie. runs). Gatlings/DLP with tracking rigs are mandatory if you want to do more than tickle it. MWD fits dies horribly fast, Dramiel is four times faster than the Slicer after scram lands .. that is a huge speed difference.
I get the impression that a majority of the people complaining about the Dramiel has actually tried and failed repeatedly at killing them in fits that "should have worked". Once that happens, all that is left is gimp-fits specifically designed to counter that one hull but dying to the first armed noob ship it encounters.
Enjoy the OP hull for as long as it lasts. If the 'AF AB Boost' debacle is anything to go by, CCP will get around to test "us whiners" claims and knock it off its high perch .. just as soon as they fix the mess they made of null-sec that is
PS: Just what fit do you propose a Sentinel should use to defeat the standard Dramiel? A single MWD burst and his scram lands, you need 4-5 neut cycles to drain him (108 each vs. 450 cap) so a minimum of 6s .. unless he is standing still and you start at maximum neut range to begin with I don't see it happening. Damage from 4 small drones is only half if that of his (cap-less) dps. Even if by some stroke of luck you manage to get out of scram the drones are destroyed as fast as he is able to lock them.
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Darthewok
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.02.08 11:54:00 -
[452]
dramiel is the only ship that obsoletes all others of its class to such an extent. curse, broadsword, vindicator, whatever else do not make people give up falcon/rook/arazu/rapier, onyx/phobos, nightmares/megas/dominix etc. to such an extent as dramiels makes people give up t1 frigs, inties, and AF for dramiel.
OP.
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arbalesttom
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 12:11:00 -
[453]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
I get the impression that a majority of the people complaining about the Dramiel has actually tried and failed repeatedly at killing them in fits that "should have worked". Once that happens, all that is left is gimp-fits specifically designed to counter that one hull but dying to the first armed noob ship it encounters.
THis sums it up pretty nicely. ***Sig***
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Deva Blackfire
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.08 12:35:00 -
[454]
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
Originally by: Omara Otawan Edited by: Omara Otawan on 08/02/2010 01:56:46
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
Broadsword is arguable THE best Hictor, what with it having higher dps than Onyx, same tank, more agility, projectile buff etc etc etc etc.
What are you smoking? Not that dps matters on a HIC, but in fact the Onyx gets same dps as the Broadsword, with better range and no falloff penalty.
It has a better tank, SAME agility, etc etc etc etc.
You are right about it having no projectile buff though
It's 2 am. I'm at work. I'm pretty tired. You're wrong though, the Broadsword is better. I'm not going to check and come back with anything to disagree with you like numbers from eft or whatever. Just believe me. I mean, you can argue that it uses the Rupture hull, rather than the Moa. That alone justifies what I'm saying. You know I'm right.
No. You are trying to make a point (broad is best HIC) wheras you fail at basics. Broad is best at WHAT? DPS? Same as Onyx. Tank? Same as onyx, inferior to armor tanked HICs. Ability to tackle supercaps? Worse than armor tanked HICs (phobos and devoter) due to lack of injector (and if you use injector then you kill your tank). Ability to camp in lowsec? Worse than phobos (which is superior to all others as lowsec gatecamper ue to 4 mids and 6lowslot tank).
All HICs have their own strengths and weaknesses and have different uses so HIC situation is NOT comparable to dramiel situation at all.
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Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.02.08 13:09:00 -
[455]
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
b) say that I didn't realize how many whiny "PvPers" EVE had accumulated over the past two years
This, though the falcon and nano threads were actually way more epic than these (so far) ____________________________________________________________
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar Fuzzpuss Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 17:02:00 -
[456]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
Originally by: Omara Otawan Edited by: Omara Otawan on 08/02/2010 01:56:46
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
Broadsword is arguable THE best Hictor, what with it having higher dps than Onyx, same tank, more agility, projectile buff etc etc etc etc.
What are you smoking? Not that dps matters on a HIC, but in fact the Onyx gets same dps as the Broadsword, with better range and no falloff penalty.
It has a better tank, SAME agility, etc etc etc etc.
You are right about it having no projectile buff though
It's 2 am. I'm at work. I'm pretty tired. You're wrong though, the Broadsword is better. I'm not going to check and come back with anything to disagree with you like numbers from eft or whatever. Just believe me. I mean, you can argue that it uses the Rupture hull, rather than the Moa. That alone justifies what I'm saying. You know I'm right.
No. You are trying to make a point (broad is best HIC) wheras you fail at basics. Broad is best at WHAT? DPS? Same as Onyx. Tank? Same as onyx, inferior to armor tanked HICs. Ability to tackle supercaps? Worse than armor tanked HICs (phobos and devoter) due to lack of injector (and if you use injector then you kill your tank). Ability to camp in lowsec? Worse than phobos (which is superior to all others as lowsec gatecamper ue to 4 mids and 6lowslot tank).
All HICs have their own strengths and weaknesses and have different uses so HIC situation is NOT comparable to dramiel situation at all.
It's still better. And the Dramiel still doesn't need nerfing.
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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch TriMark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.08 17:11:00 -
[457]
as long as there are enough ships out there that can counter and kill a dramiel,i dont think it can be considered overpowered.
Two examples:
The navy slicer, it will strike deadly blows to the dramiel even if the dram is orbitting at 5,5km/s speed
The other is the caracal. It can rip a dramiel apart in few seconds.
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar Fuzzpuss Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 17:13:00 -
[458]
Originally by: Tamahra as long as there are enough ships out there that can counter and kill a dramiel,i dont think it can be considered overpowered.
Two examples:
The navy slicer, it will strike deadly blows to the dramiel even if the dram is orbitting at 5,5km/s speed
The other is the caracal. It can rip a dramiel apart in few seconds.
Exactly. And I'm sure a curse can rip it a new one as well. All this fuss and bother over an expensive little ship.
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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch TriMark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.08 17:18:00 -
[459]
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
Originally by: Tamahra as long as there are enough ships out there that can counter and kill a dramiel,i dont think it can be considered overpowered.
Two examples:
The navy slicer, it will strike deadly blows to the dramiel even if the dram is orbitting at 5,5km/s speed
The other is the caracal. It can rip a dramiel apart in few seconds.
Exactly. And I'm sure a curse can rip it a new one as well. All this fuss and bother over an expensive little ship.
the thing is, the dramiel is a pure 1v1 speedy frig. the chances for it to die rise drastically if more than 1 player is involved in the opposite group, no matter how many guys you have in your own group. And as such, as a 1v1 frig, it¦s targets are very limited too.
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar Fuzzpuss Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 17:34:00 -
[460]
Originally by: Tamahra
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
Originally by: Tamahra as long as there are enough ships out there that can counter and kill a dramiel,i dont think it can be considered overpowered.
Two examples:
The navy slicer, it will strike deadly blows to the dramiel even if the dram is orbitting at 5,5km/s speed
The other is the caracal. It can rip a dramiel apart in few seconds.
Exactly. And I'm sure a curse can rip it a new one as well. All this fuss and bother over an expensive little ship.
the thing is, the dramiel is a pure 1v1 speedy frig. the chances for it to die rise drastically if more than 1 player is involved in the opposite group, no matter how many guys you have in your own group. And as such, as a 1v1 frig, it¦s targets are very limited too.
I think they should give it a jump drive personally. Then it would be balanced. I don't really think it's fair that the Dramiel has to use stargates and can't just jump using a cyno, and it would give frigate pilots more solo options. Everyone moans that solo is dead. CCP please give the Dramiel a jump drive.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.02.08 17:39:00 -
[461]
Slicer does jack **** to a Dramiel. You get exactly one volley before its under the guns .. it has speed enough to tracking tank DLPII@4km for Goddess sake. Tried it and it doesn't work, you quite simply lose the dps race which decides all frig bouts. Caracal will by its very nature (Assault launchers everywhere now) prevent the Dramiel from ever engaging, so boohoo awesome counter. Dramiel has enough buffer and speed to go in to test the damage output and bug out if it isn't doable (can almost be done in an AB Crusader).
Yes Curse will probably kill a Dramiel if it chooses to engage, but so will a Titan DD .. see, anyone can make ridiculous statements.
And the gang/blob argument, really? Have you FoTM jockeys run out steam already? You still have to make a single argument that wasn't made in defence of nano's prior to Quantum Rise.
Dramiel can be killed, Dramiel does have counters .. but it can only be killed if it chooses to (ie. messes up) and counters are limited to 2-3 ships that is able to serve a purpose beyond killing Dramiel's, everything else needs gimp-fits to do it.
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Taua Roqa
Minmatar Vast Castle
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Posted - 2010.02.08 17:51:00 -
[462]
if god created the dramiel could he kill it~~~~~~ [ |
Hannibal Ord
Minmatar Fuzzpuss Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 17:53:00 -
[463]
Originally by: Taua Roqa if god created the dramiel could he kill it~~~~~~
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch TriMark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.08 17:57:00 -
[464]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Dramiel can be killed, Dramiel does have counters .. but it can only be killed if it chooses to (ie. messes up)
this is the case for any nano-inty or other speedy nano-frig...... its really nothing new
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Deva Blackfire
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.08 18:03:00 -
[465]
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
It's still better. And the Dramiel still doesn't need nerfing.
You are clueless in both cases it seems.
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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch TriMark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.08 18:04:00 -
[466]
Edited by: Tamahra on 08/02/2010 18:06:06 Edited by: Tamahra on 08/02/2010 18:04:40
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
I think they should give it a jump drive personally. Then it would be balanced. I don't really think it's fair that the Dramiel has to use stargates and can't just jump using a cyno, and it would give frigate pilots more solo options. Everyone moans that solo is dead. CCP please give the Dramiel a jump drive.
news-flash: the dramiel cant solo kill anything bigger than a t1 cruiser. its just not doable (except if your opponent is sitting in a gimp fit). Secondly: The dramiel sucks in group pvp.
Thirdly: Even if your opponent is sitting in a t1 cruiser, all he needs is a flight of warriors II to drive any dramiel off.
So this leaves only frigate pew pew for the dramiel, as its only role that it can fulfil effectively. And there are enough other frigates out there who can kill a dramiel.
To sum it up: Everything is perfectly fine with the dramiel
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.02.08 18:30:00 -
[467]
Originally by: Tamahra this is the case for any nano-inty or other speedy nano-frig...... its really nothing new
Guess what. Nano-inties are slower (Crusader needs two (2) ODII to get same speed as a Dramiel with no speed in lows!), have far less EHP and have much less damage. Orange meet Apple.
Originally by: Tamahra news-flash: the dramiel cant solo kill anything bigger than a t1 cruiser. its just not doable (except if your opponent is sitting in a gimp fit). Secondly: The dramiel sucks in group pvp.
Thirdly: Even if your opponent is sitting in a t1 cruiser, all he needs is a flight of warriors II to drive any dramiel off.
So this leaves only frigate pew pew for the dramiel, as its only role that it can fulfil effectively. And there are enough other frigates out there who can kill a dramiel.
To sum it up: Everything is perfectly fine with the dramiel
Not sure if you are trolling or if you are really that clueless. Let me counter your FoxNews-Flash with a RealWorldNews-Flash: - Frigates can kill anything except huge passive shield tanks. Only time is an issue, no ship except for the Sacrilege can perma-tank 150+ dps unless tanking is all it is setup to do. - Dramiel provides the fastest moving tackle, it provides AF level damage, it provides free midslot for eWar, it provides drones .. it is nearly perfect in group PvP. - Drones, especially lights, die really really fast if ship has enough tracking .. guess what Dramiel has.
You want to try again?
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar Fuzzpuss Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 18:44:00 -
[468]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
It's still better. And the Dramiel still doesn't need nerfing.
You are clueless in both cases it seems.
Well not really. You're just scared of a little frigate. 1 single ship that happens to be kinda neat and fun to fly. And there are counters to it, so I don't really see the problem.
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Prozacxx
Caldari Maximum Yarrage
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Posted - 2010.02.08 18:46:00 -
[469]
Originally by: Tamahra
news-flash: the dramiel cant solo kill anything bigger than a t1 cruiser. its just not doable (except if your opponent is sitting in a gimp fit). Secondly: The dramiel sucks in group pvp.
Thirdly: Even if your opponent is sitting in a t1 cruiser, all he needs is a flight of warriors II to drive any dramiel off.
So this leaves only frigate pew pew for the dramiel, as its only role that it can fulfil effectively. And there are enough other frigates out there who can kill a dramiel.
To sum it up: Everything is perfectly fine with the dramiel
My Dramiel would like to have a word with you
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar Fuzzpuss Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 18:51:00 -
[470]
Originally by: Prozacxx
Originally by: Tamahra
news-flash: the dramiel cant solo kill anything bigger than a t1 cruiser. its just not doable (except if your opponent is sitting in a gimp fit). Secondly: The dramiel sucks in group pvp.
Thirdly: Even if your opponent is sitting in a t1 cruiser, all he needs is a flight of warriors II to drive any dramiel off.
So this leaves only frigate pew pew for the dramiel, as its only role that it can fulfil effectively. And there are enough other frigates out there who can kill a dramiel.
To sum it up: Everything is perfectly fine with the dramiel
My Dramiel would like to have a word with you
NEAT! Maybe I should get one.
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Ammy Azimuth
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Posted - 2010.02.08 18:52:00 -
[471]
Hey prozacx I copy pasta'd your fit when i listed it in the OP. So yea, but its pretty close to the standard dramiel fits so I was like what the hell why not.
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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch TriMark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.08 19:14:00 -
[472]
Edited by: Tamahra on 08/02/2010 19:20:31
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Tamahra this is the case for any nano-inty or other speedy nano-frig...... its really nothing new
Guess what. Nano-inties are slower (Crusader needs two (2) ODII to get same speed as a Dramiel with no speed in lows!), have far less EHP and have much less damage. Orange meet Apple.
Originally by: Tamahra news-flash: the dramiel cant solo kill anything bigger than a t1 cruiser. its just not doable (except if your opponent is sitting in a gimp fit). Secondly: The dramiel sucks in group pvp.
Thirdly: Even if your opponent is sitting in a t1 cruiser, all he needs is a flight of warriors II to drive any dramiel off.
So this leaves only frigate pew pew for the dramiel, as its only role that it can fulfil effectively. And there are enough other frigates out there who can kill a dramiel.
To sum it up: Everything is perfectly fine with the dramiel
Not sure if you are trolling or if you are really that clueless. Let me counter your FoxNews-Flash with a RealWorldNews-Flash: - Frigates can kill anything except huge passive shield tanks. Only time is an issue, no ship except for the Sacrilege can perma-tank 150+ dps unless tanking is all it is setup to do. - Dramiel provides the fastest moving tackle, it provides AF level damage, it provides free midslot for eWar, it provides drones .. it is nearly perfect in group PvP. - Drones, especially lights, die really really fast if ship has enough tracking .. guess what Dramiel has.
You want to try again?
well i did some more testing on tranq. As it seems right now, yes, the dramiel is, probably, overpowered vs assault frigs. If you look at it from this angle, yes then i agree, maybe if they nerf the speed of the dramiel down a bit to bring it in line, that could be a good thing balance-wise.
so. my voting after extensive testing, so far, would be: The dramiel is fine as it is, it just needs a speed nerf. Can we all agree on that?
But IF they did this speed nerf, they would still have to take the price of the dramiel into consideration. It costs 80 million isk, the hull alone. Thats a good sum, and such a price DOES justify superior performance. It will not be easy to do the balancing right there. No one wants to sit in a 80 million (hull alone) suck ship
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
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Posted - 2010.02.08 19:30:00 -
[473]
Originally by: Tamahra But IF they did this speed nerf, they would still have to take the price of the dramiel into consideration. It costs 80 million isk, the hull alone. Thats a good sum, and such a price DOES justify superior performance. It will not be easy to do the balancing right there. No one wants to sit in a 80 million (hull alone) suck ship
Giving it some more focused role will do. More focused role implies that it will have some weak points :P
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Proxyyyy
Caldari The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.02.08 19:31:00 -
[474]
Edited by: Proxyyyy on 08/02/2010 19:32:18
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Slicer does jack **** to a Dramiel. You get exactly one volley before its under the guns .. it has speed enough to tracking tank DLPII@4km for Goddess sake. Tried it and it doesn't work, you quite simply lose the dps race which decides all frig bouts. Caracal will by its very nature (Assault launchers everywhere now) prevent the Dramiel from ever engaging, so boohoo awesome counter. Dramiel has enough buffer and speed to go in to test the damage output and bug out if it isn't doable (can almost be done in an AB Crusader).
Yes Curse will probably kill a Dramiel if it chooses to engage, but so will a Titan DD .. see, anyone can make ridiculous statements.
And the gang/blob argument, really? Have you FoTM jockeys run out steam already? You still have to make a single argument that wasn't made in defence of nano's prior to Quantum Rise.
Dramiel can be killed, Dramiel does have counters .. but it can only be killed if it chooses to (ie. messes up) and counters are limited to 2-3 ships that is able to serve a purpose beyond killing Dramiel's, everything else needs gimp-fits to do it.
Anyways Im not sure why pilots are so in love with duel lights! Gats have better tracking, less cap usage, with a slight damage reduction. The slicer is pretty much a tanky crusader with less overall dps and speed. The kiting fit that is out there alot can easly taken out and fill killboards everywhere! The ship it self is slower than the hookbill and the firetail can skool it all day! imo it should be tanked and operate under scram range. Now if you gimp the tank and put just reppers alonet even a claw/ranis can still take it out which my corpmate quickly found out! The plate and active repair adds the ehp and damage mitigation nessecary to make that fight one sided.
Crusader lacks the tank of the slicer and capacitor. So imo its better equipped and i was mainly recommending it to someone who is a amarr role player who can only fly amarr ships. It also maybe unbelievable to pilots on these forums that feel there fits are better than others and no one should ever use anything else. What this thread perceived to be a "general fit" is not what is use ingame by the majority of pilots. Alot of the dram fits out there are kiting or ab drams and its very rare that you'll actually engage duel-prop/drams. So yeah in that case that slicer fit has more than the ability to engage them effectively!
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.02.08 19:43:00 -
[475]
Originally by: Tamahra well i did some more testing on tranq. As it seems right now, yes, the dramiel is, probably, overpowered vs assault frigs. If you look at it from this angle, yes then i agree, maybe if they nerf the speed of the dramiel down a bit to bring it in line, that could be a good thing balance-wise.
so. my voting after extensive testing, so far, would be: The dramiel is fine as it is, it just needs a speed nerf. Can we all agree on that?
That is what we are trying to figure out. How to decrease the god factor without making it utterly useless.
My take on the whole thing is that: Angel hull provides speed/agility above all else. Guristas (new one anyway) provide drones and tank above all else. Serpentis provides OMFG-my-Face! damage above all else. Sansha provides a semi-ranged dps (what the hell do they do anyway? )
In that vein I would like to see it keep most of its speed speed/agility but lose damage, tracking and cap (it has way too much for its size/weapon type). Basically make it more similar to its bigger brothers Cynabal/Machariel, ie. fall-off/damage or RoF bonus.
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
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Posted - 2010.02.08 19:44:00 -
[476]
Originally by: Proxyyyy Anyways Im not sure why pilots are so in love with duel lights! Gats have better tracking, less cap usage, with a slight damage reduction. The slicer is pretty much a tanky crusader with less overall dps and speed. The kiting fit that is out there alot can easly taken out and fill killboards everywhere! The ship it self is slower than the hookbill and the firetail can skool it all day! imo it should be tanked and operate under scram range. Now if you gimp the tank and put just reppers alonet even a claw/ranis can still take it out which my corpmate quickly found out! The plate and active repair adds the ehp and damage mitigation nessecary to make that fight one sided.
Slicer is in no way counter to dramiel, period.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.02.08 20:02:00 -
[477]
Originally by: Proxyyyy ...
DLPs allow engaging at the edge of overheated scram range without dps loss /gatlings have 9k range/, tracking is enough for every frighull except dram and ab inties. Slicer is imo 24k mwd kiter that can deliver around 170dps to 25k+, but it has serious cpu issues /and you cant engage canes etc in it like in crow/. If you want ab fit, you can use sader. Id maybe use ab slicer if there were faction neuts for 5mil, 6k neut range just isnt enough for me. Standard dram fit /i was talking about dualprop+mse fit/ isnt used by majority of pilots ofc. Majority of dram pilots use failfits /yes, i can use slicer effectively to engage failfit drams!/. But if dram pilot is using proper pvp fit, theres almost 0 chance for slicer. And if dram pilot decides to go for armor tanked td fit, theres almost 0 chance for any frig /but he will have hard time disengaging when blob lands on him/.
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Proxyyyy
Caldari The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.02.08 20:32:00 -
[478]
Anyways on topic; all ships splode at some point or another to whatever. There are plenty of ships that can take out the dram not to mention the good old gank!
null Jaguar V Dram
null Worm V Dram
null Thrasher V Dram
Anyways there was this dude that took out 5 drams in his slicer. 2 of them being the same dram fit this thread is on about... I have to ask my bro for the link again and ill post it.
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
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Posted - 2010.02.08 21:43:00 -
[479]
Originally by: Proxyyyy Anyways on topic; all ships splode at some point or another to whatever. There are plenty of ships that can take out the dram not to mention the good old gank!
null Jaguar V Dram
null Worm V Dram
null Thrasher V Dram
Anyways there was this dude that took out 5 drams in his slicer. 2 of them being the same dram fit this thread is on about... I have to ask my bro for the link again and ill post it.
Killmails are lame argument because they don't offer all the information for analysis. Fraps from both sides, gamelogs, list of skills, equipment and implants can provide enough info for that.
Otherwise... t1 cruiser kills carrier c/d?
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Proxyyyy
Caldari The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.02.08 22:10:00 -
[480]
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 08/02/2010 21:48:07 Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 08/02/2010 21:46:33
Originally by: Proxyyyy Anyways on topic; all ships splode at some point or another to whatever. There are plenty of ships that can take out the dram not to mention the good old gank!
null Jaguar V Dram
null Worm V Dram
null Thrasher V Dram
Anyways there was this dude that took out 5 drams in his slicer. 2 of them being the same dram fit this thread is on about... I have to ask my bro for the link again and ill post it.
Killmails are lame argument because they don't offer all the information for analysis. Fraps from both sides, gamelogs, list of skills, equipment and implants can provide enough info for that.
Otherwise... t1 cruiser kills carrier c/d?
ps I know Mortaly... CEO of his corp are my friends :P he flies ab-only jag. Why all these counters barely can kill dram while they don't offer such mobility and several other cool thingies?
Whatever! I dont care about all that or realy why it happened only that it did and was hella funny! Anyways the point was all ships explode, not every pilot in eve is good or has max skillz. ME SHOOT IT WIT ME GUNNZ!!! Plus yeah i agree with you about the Killmail/killboards whatever. Ab/jag ftw btw... STABBA POWA = )
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