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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.02.05 09:32:00 -
[301]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Worm will be godly when/if CCP gets around to buffing rockets, start stockpiling them now
It's got two range-bonused missile slots. Rockets are going to have to be ridiculously boosted for it to be anything other than an expensive Ishkur. The Worm doesn't even have a drone damage bonus. The Dramiel gets 60% of its drone DPS and the equivalent of four turrets, each with superior weaponry while being twice as fast.
The sort of rocket boost necessary to balance the Worm with the Dramiel or Daredevil would probably result in hilarious 400 DPS Kestrels.
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Intigo
Amarr Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.02.05 09:38:00 -
[302]
Edited by: Intigo on 05/02/2010 09:40:15 WTS Jaguar used to kill Darthewok.
I don't bother flying AFs. :(
15k EHP! ___________________
HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it. |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol HellFleet
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Posted - 2010.02.05 10:02:00 -
[303]
lol
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Asuka Smith
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2010.02.05 10:04:00 -
[304]
Originally by: Intigo Edited by: Intigo on 05/02/2010 09:40:15 WTS Jaguar used to kill Darthewok.
I don't bother flying AFs. :(
15k EHP!
confirm dramiel is OP?
2010.01.29 17:54
Victim: someone whose name starts with an I, not sure who Corp: failgenes Alliance: FREGE RELOADED Faction: NONE Destroyed: Dramiel System: KBP7-G Security: 0.0 Damage Taken: 4155
Involved parties:
Name: Security: 1.3 Corp: Alliance: Faction: NONE Ship: Rapier Weapon: 425mm AutoCannon II Damage Done: 3299
Name: Security: 4.7 Corp: Alliance: Faction: NONE Ship: Unknown Weapon: Shrapnel Bomb Damage Done: 692
Name: Security: 0.4 Corp: Alliance: Faction: NONE Ship: Drake Weapon: Warrior II Damage Done: 90
Name: Security: 5.0 Corp: Alliance: Faction: NONE Ship: Catalyst Weapon: 75mm Gatling Rail II Damage Done: 74
Name: Security: 5.0 Corp: Alliance: Faction: NONE Ship: Hawk Weapon: Standard Missile Launcher II Damage Done: 0
Destroyed items:
Republic Fleet Fusion S, Qty: 108 Small Remote Armor Repair System I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Medium Shield Extender II Gyrostabilizer II Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S, Qty: 1500 (Cargo) Barrage S, Qty: 1523 (Cargo) Small Core Defence Field Extender I Small Auxiliary Thrusters I Small Projectile Burst Aerator I Warrior II (Drone Bay)
Dropped items:
200mm AutoCannon II 200mm AutoCannon II Republic Fleet Fusion S, Qty: 108 Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner Internal Force Field Array I Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Republic Fleet EMP S, Qty: 1498 (Cargo) Nanite Repair Paste, Qty: 100 (Cargo) Republic Fleet Fusion S, Qty: 1760 (Cargo) Dignity, Qty: 1 (Cargo)
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Intigo
Amarr Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.02.05 10:06:00 -
[305]
Edited by: Intigo on 05/02/2010 10:06:52 A Rapier killed a Dramiel with a gang as backup - how is that news? o.O
Not confused by the fact that Siigari tries to bring it up though, considering what a terrible PvP'er he is. You are really butthurt, Siigari. ___________________
HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it. |
Asuka Smith
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2010.02.05 10:21:00 -
[306]
Originally by: Intigo Edited by: Intigo on 05/02/2010 10:20:49 A Rapier killed a Dramiel with a gang as backup - how is that news? o.O
Not confused by the fact that Siigari tries to bring it up though, considering what a terrible PvP'er he is. You must be really angry, Siigari.
As a solo PvP'er you get a lot of losses to the blob. And you pick out that one? Oh dear...
An incursus would have solod that fit bro
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol HellFleet
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Posted - 2010.02.05 10:23:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Asuka Smith An incursus would have solod that fit bro
This. For beating your chest about how everybody is "terrible" and has "terrible" fits let me be the first to say:
That fit is terrible.
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Darthewok
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.02.05 10:36:00 -
[308]
Edited by: Darthewok on 05/02/2010 10:40:39
Originally by: Intigo Edited by: Intigo on 05/02/2010 09:40:15 WTS Jaguar used to kill Darthewok.
I don't bother flying AFs. :(
15k EHP!
dual mse prolly. purely anti-jag fit because you knew i was flying jag so you fit one specially. not too useful against other frigs as can't catch them. (no web) it wont do squat against a dramiel. not downplaying your achievement. just saying part of reason you won was cos you specially fit your ship to kill jag.
btw 3 genos kills and an arazu with one jag today.
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Morel Nova
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.02.05 11:07:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Darthewok Edited by: Darthewok on 05/02/2010 10:52:22 WTS Jaguar used to kill Darthewok.
I don't bother flying AFs. :(
15k EHP!
dual mse prolly. purely anti-jag fit because you knew i was flying jag so you fit one specially.
not downplaying your achievement. just saying part of reason you won was cos you specially fit your ship to kill jag. you found out what ship i had and took 15 mins to specially choose a ship (jag) and specially counter fit it. which was correct. you didn't tell me what ship you were bringing till the last minute. so i didn't counter fit for the specific ship. which is fine. just describing the situation.
dual mse without web is not too useful against other frigs as can't catch them. inties will laugh at dual mse (kite because no web) and especially so will dramiel. it rocks vs other jags though of course and maybe vs cruisers. you were good at switching fit to the occasion.
you know, if you have a web and he doesnt you can just fly away right? unless you're terrible Reward small gang/solo pvp!
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Darthewok
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.02.05 11:14:00 -
[310]
got too excited lol. fixated till too late. yeah. i'm terrible! good fight. you guys are good no doubt. anyone want to 1v1 t2 frig fight and see me in amamake local convo me for easy kill!
- crazy solo pvp jag nut
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Darth Felin
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Posted - 2010.02.05 11:42:00 -
[311]
Actually I think that dramiel is fine. It just need its crazy speed to be decreased by 10-20%.
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Kirzath
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2010.02.05 11:57:00 -
[312]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Asuka Smith An incursus would have solod that fit bro
This. For beating your chest about how everybody is "terrible" and has "terrible" fits let me be the first to say:
That fit is terrible.
Look how stupid you are
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El'Tar
Caldari Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2010.02.05 11:57:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Asuka Smith An incursus would have solod that fit bro
That fit is terrible.
THESE TWO POSTS MAKES ME SO ANGRY ________________________________________________
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Kimura Masahiko
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.02.05 12:03:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Asuka Smith An incursus would have solod that fit bro
This. For beating your chest about how everybody is "terrible" and has "terrible" fits let me be the first to say:
That fit is terrible.
Lol. I was kinda taking you seriously with your post on last page, but that is pretty much the optimal solo Dram fit fyi (rigs and faction to taste of course). Besides a well flown and fitted rapier or curse is absolutely the number one counter for a dramiel.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol HellFleet
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Posted - 2010.02.05 12:46:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Kimura Masahiko Lol. I was kinda taking you seriously with your post on last page, but that is pretty much the optimal solo Dram fit fyi (rigs and faction to taste of course). Besides a well flown and fitted rapier or curse is absolutely the number one counter for a dramiel.
Do take it seriously. I am a proponent of the ship remaining the way it is. I don't see any problems with one ship being better than a few others. To be honest with you, it kind of fills my heart with joy to see so many people rage over something so trivial.
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Lee Dalton
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.02.05 13:12:00 -
[316]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Asuka Smith An incursus would have solod that fit bro
This. For beating your chest about how everybody is "terrible" and has "terrible" fits let me be the first to say:
That fit is terrible.
Wat, that fit is just fine. *** You're only as good as your last fight. |
Intigo
Amarr Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.02.05 15:16:00 -
[317]
Lee, if this isn't proof of how terrible your corp is I don't know what is. :D
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Asuka Smith An incursus would have solod that fit bro
This. For beating your chest about how everybody is "terrible" and has "terrible" fits let me be the first to say:
That fit is terrible.
Hahaha.
I love how while I'm at uni you guys manage to prove how completely clueless you are at the game.
You don't even need my help! It's incredible. ___________________
HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it. |
Cearain
Caldari ReSlavers
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Posted - 2010.02.05 15:51:00 -
[318]
I see allot of people complaining that they can't solo kill a 120 million isk set up (dramiel) in a 20 million isk setup (various tech 1 cruisers). Even the faction frigs only cost half of what a dramiel does for the hull. I would hope the dramiel will outperform a ship that costs half as much.
As for the other pirate faction ships it seems balanced with the daredevil. I think the worm may need a boost.
Most of the dramiel fits shown are scram fits which means they need to get in tight to hold a target. That means they will get ganked from time to time. Thats allot of isk to lose.
Yes the dramiel/daredevil makes it possible to do pvp solo - this is a *good* thing for the game. Eve needed a way to do this. If you you are willing to put a small gangs worth of isk into a single frigate you now have the power to take out a single frigates and certain t1 cruisers. I don't see this as overpowered.
What about in a gang? Well that 160 dps isn't so stellar anymore. And if you get multiple webs and scrams it may not be so easy to get out. So its much harder to justify bringing pirate faction frig in a gang. The pirate faction ships are ships built for solo work and they do that well. The fact that they do what they are intended to do well is not a problem.
I have to say if I were asked to make a great solo frigate that would end up costing 110-150 million isk - the daredevil and dramiel seem extremely well balanced.
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Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.02.05 18:25:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa The Taranis was the undisputed brawler of choice, and while some may disagree I believe it remains to be. Unless you're finding brawling Dramiels which in my opinion is dangerous and foolhardy.
Let it go. CCP is going to leave it alone.
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Asuka Smith An incursus would have solod that fit bro
This. For beating your chest about how everybody is "terrible" and has "terrible" fits let me be the first to say:
That fit is terrible.
HOHOHO
Dude, "that terrible fit" and it's derivatives is the reason everyone is complaining about the dram... And yeah, it's a scramrange brawler/kiter, it will die to blobbing (I'm proof of that)
Also, Ranis is now obsoleted by the Comet (directly, stat- by stat) and at least Dramiel and the Daredevil (semi- directly)
Stop sucking at the game tbh ____________________________________________________________
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Amneamnius
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Posted - 2010.02.05 18:38:00 -
[320]
We've seen it all before; with the amount of controversy, let alone whining, about the daredevil, CCP is going to change it.
Its obviously the best frigate class ship in the game currently; out performing other ships in their specific role.
I'm going to put it out there, SMARTBOMBING CARRIER = dead dramiel. :D
might want a few hundred lachesis + rapiers to let the carrier slowboat it to the dram. |
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.02.05 18:49:00 -
[321]
What I find hilarious about this thread is that back before the nano nerf it was considered Perfectly A-OK for a frig to go 5-10km/s... now that a frig is the only thing that can go 5-10km/s we see whining about it.
Oooooh, I get it - it's because the killmail doesn't land in your lap for free!
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
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Posted - 2010.02.05 19:24:00 -
[322]
Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 05/02/2010 19:26:21
Originally by: Seishi Maru Dramiel only found itself on this position because each of the pirate factions has a flavor and theme and the angel themes matches PERFECTLY the FRIGATE size combat repertorie.
Exactly. For BS it would be superior tank and/or DPS (imagine damnation's resistances and armor boni on abaddon). For cruiser-sized hull... uh, dunno, maybe some mix.
Originally by: Liang Nuren What I find hilarious about this thread is that back before the nano nerf it was considered Perfectly A-OK for a frig to go 5-10km/s... now that a frig is the only thing that can go 5-10km/s we see whining about it.
Well, maybe because ships are not some theoretical objects floating in pure vacuum, they interact with others?
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Cearain
Caldari ReSlavers
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Posted - 2010.02.05 20:22:00 -
[323]
Originally by: Darthewok Edited by: Darthewok on 04/02/2010 14:40:29
i am tempted to fly a dramiel, but don't want to agree with the new de facto standard frig of choice being an expensive pirate frig. thats leading towards a "pay for pvp victory" style of MMO i don't agree with.
That is an essential part of eve.
Consider this: You yourself fly t2 frigs. Their hulls cost 100x what a t1 frig hull costs, and they are better in pvp. Why is that ok but a frig that costs 3-5 times what a t2 frig costs (depending on fittings) shouldn't be more powerful? Eve mirrors reality in that wealth is a source of power. In order to have military presence you either need allot of money or you need allot of people. If I have 6 t1 frigs and cruisers I can spend less than the cost of a faction fit dramiel and have a much more effective military force. (Yes skill points and experience play a role too, but if that was all there was then eve would be a shallow game. The fact you need to have economic strategies or real life social/leadership skills adds to the game quite a bit.)
If you don't want to get isk or numbers then, you won't do as well. Increase your chances of winning by saving for more expensive gear or using bigger blobs. IMHO the pendulum was too far toward blobbing for the win. Now at least if you want to risk *allot* of isk you may be able to have fun without the blob. IMHO the pirate frigs are one of the best things to hit eve since small rigs. And I haven't even flown one for pvp yet. I have had my rifter destroyed in an ugly way to one already though.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.02.05 20:25:00 -
[324]
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess
Originally by: Liang Nuren What I find hilarious about this thread is that back before the nano nerf it was considered Perfectly A-OK for a frig to go 5-10km/s... now that a frig is the only thing that can go 5-10km/s we see whining about it.
Well, maybe because ships are not some theoretical objects floating in pure vacuum, they interact with others?
What I am pointing out here is that even the most ardent nano nerf supporters thought frigs should be able to do what the Dramiel can do now. Except now that they're seeing what they thought would be "just fine" they aren't all that impressed.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
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Posted - 2010.02.05 20:52:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Liang Nuren What I am pointing out here is that even the most ardent nano nerf supporters thought frigs should be able to do what the Dramiel can do now. Except now that they're seeing what they thought would be "just fine" they aren't all that impressed.
Speed of cruiser+ classes were rebalanced as well. So imo post-QR frigs are able to do almost the same set of things as pre-QR frigs (except for 'have speed over 9000' thingy)
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Ammy Azimuth
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Posted - 2010.02.05 21:10:00 -
[326]
Honestly I did not think this thread would last this long. At most I was expecting 1-2 pages.
But anyhow the main problems I got with the dramiel is that it doesn't abide with the nano nerf constraints, and it generally doesn't fit at all compared to all other frigate ship classes.
Yes, angel faction is meant to be fast, but is it meant to be faster than interceptors who fit speed mods, compared toa dramiel that hits 5km/s without any speed mods at all.
I'd just like it to be slower than interceptors that are fit with speed mods. Sure, you gotta be able to be tanky like an AF you just spent 70m on a frigate hull.
Sure it got an almost perfect combination of guns/drones/slot layout but you get what you pay for.
So end result is, faster than AF's but slower than interceptors. That would be a nie mix. It would still allow wtfpwn of having a faction frigate but not as much whine.
The suggestions to take away a medium slot is alright, but people would throw a hissy fit most likely. You wouldn't be able to do a dual prop/MSE but you would get a dual prop, dmg control/plate/rep, with a scram, guns and a vamp or something. It would still allow the dramiel to zoom around all it wants, but makes it much more succeptible to neuts or something.
Personally, I just think it needs a tweak to its speed to make it in line with other frigates. Yes, you SHOULD get performance for your buck, and you will even if the speed gets smidged a bit down to upper high speeds.
And about the nano nerf stuff, if ALL frigate were flying aroudn at 5-10km/s I wouldn't be whining. It's just this one ship gets to fly around at those speeds no one else can.
And you can't get the deadspace mwd's to make up for that if your ship was slower.
Ps. Worm needs to get fixed though. That thing sucks so much ass. And something is wrong with the succubus also, its just weird.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2010.02.05 21:20:00 -
[327]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 05/02/2010 21:23:51 T1 frigate < Navy Frigate < T2 Frigate < Pirate Frigate.
This is exactly, precisely how the frigate class was intended to be balanced with the last patch according to CCP.
The only controversy that I see is that 1 or 2 of the faction frigate may need a minor tweak here and there to bring them in line with the Dramiel and Daredevil.
To put it another way, assuming equal pilot skill and equipment, an interceptor or assault frigate is INTENDED to be at a disadvantage against a pirate faction frigate.
Stop your belly aching and read the Dev Blog that specifically describes why Navy and Pirate faction ships were balanced (in relation to T1 and T2) the way that they were. You will find it quite enlightening.
===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2010.02.05 21:29:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 05/02/2010 21:23:51 T1 frigate < Navy Frigate < T2 Frigate < Pirate Frigate.
This is exactly, precisely how the frigate class was intended to be balanced with the last patch according to CCP.
The only controversy that I see is that 1 or 2 of the faction frigate may need a minor tweak here and there to bring them in line with the Dramiel and Daredevil.
To put it another way, assuming equal pilot skill and equipment, an interceptor or assault frigate is INTENDED to be at a disadvantage against a pirate faction frigate.
Stop your belly aching and read the Dev Blog that specifically describes why Navy and Pirate faction ships were balanced (in relation to T1 and T2) the way that they were. You will find it quite enlightening.
there is also another issue. CCP themselves said they balance LP store baased on assumption of 1k isk per lp. That means navy frigates are way too MUCH expensive compared to T2 and pirate ones. THey need to get a reduction in their LP cost. That by itself would be a slight nerf to dramiel, sicen the not so good, but stil interesting firetail woudl be used more. Now.. there is ZERO reason to get a firetail.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.02.05 21:29:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Ammy Azimuth
I'd just like it to be slower than interceptors that are fit with speed mods. Sure, you gotta be able to be tanky like an AF you just spent 70m on a frigate hull.
Wait what? No, it is *intended* to be faster than interceptors. There are things that can be done to make it less "awesome" without completely redesigning it.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.02.05 21:30:00 -
[330]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 05/02/2010 21:32:19
Originally by: Ranger 1
To put it another way, assuming equal pilot skill and equipment, an interceptor or assault frigate is INTENDED to be at a disadvantage against a pirate faction frigate.
Sure, the thing is people are complaining about the fact that an interceptor as well as an assault frigate are at a disadvantage against a particular frigate.
No problem with doing the combat interceptor part better, but doing the assault frigate part better as well is a bit over the top.
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