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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Souisa
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:25:00 -
[1]
"In an effort to prepare for future graphics projects we are collecting information about graphics cards. This will allow us to better target the hardware of EVE's player base."
Why dont you do it the valve way? They have huge hardware surveys with hundreds of thousands of players submit they info voluntarily.
I just dont like the idea of you releasing a patch, suddenly allowing you to snatch my info.
Ok so its just my graphics card, but the policy really fails.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:28:00 -
[2]
Maybe Eve players are not Valve players and CCP wants to make the game better for its player base? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Recruitment -KB- |
Kaar
Art of War
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:30:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Maybe Eve players are not Valve players and CCP wants to make the game better for its player base?
Less logical posts please Jenny
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CCP Prism X
C C P
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:31:00 -
[4]
Edited by: CCP Prism X on 12/04/2008 13:31:48 Why would we do it the Valve way when we can do it the CCP way?
And I want to really emphasize that we're not releasing a patch which allows us to snatch this information. This information is already exposed by your operating system for good reasons (well not so good reasons to some people). We're just logging it now for information purposes rather than just discarding it.
Also, posting in a Jenny thread. ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006 |
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Souisa
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:32:00 -
[5]
well sure CCP, why dont you just take my browser history while your at it. That way you can see which forums i go to most on the eve-o website and create a better overall experience for me
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Souisa
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:33:00 -
[6]
well, we'll see about that
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:34:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Souisa well sure CCP, why dont you just take my browser history while your at it. That way you can see which forums i go to most on the eve-o website and create a better overall experience for me
I'm sure it's useless to them..
They know all the pron sites. V8I
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Souisa
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:36:00 -
[8]
This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.
Regards, The EVE Online Moderation team |
Karanth
Gallente Eve's Brothers of Destiny Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:40:00 -
[9]
This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.
Regards, The EVE Online Moderation team |
Souisa
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:41:00 -
[10]
This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.
Regards, The EVE Online Moderation team |
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:44:00 -
[11]
This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.
Regards, The EVE Online Moderation team |
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CCP Navigator
C C P
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:45:00 -
[12]
Ok guys and girls.
Please keep to the topic at hand. Discussions of ****ography on youtube or anywhere else is not relevant.
Navigator, Community Representative EVE Online, CCP Games Email/Netfang
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Ok guys and girls.
Please keep to the topic at hand. Discussions of ****ography on youtube or anywhere else is not relevant.
Spoilsport
V8I
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Alrione
Amarr Black Lagoon Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:52:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Alrione on 12/04/2008 13:52:05 OP, look at the forum posters. Now think again, what good would doing it valve way do. Oh and look PrismX replied, what did he get for it, flames and people ask why CCP doesnt post on forums as much. -------------------------------- :-O Sig got nerfed. Remaking >.< |
Cailais
Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.04.12 14:04:00 -
[15]
Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 12/04/2008 13:31:48 Why would we do it the Valve way when we can do it the CCP way?
And I want to really emphasize that we're not releasing a patch which allows us to snatch this information. This information is already exposed by your operating system for good reasons (well not so good reasons to some people). We're just logging it now for information purposes rather than just discarding it.
Also, posting in a Jenny thread.
Excellent news, Im pleased that your utlising already available data to improve the quality of game play. Also I appreciate you advertising the fact so that anyone who does not wish their information logged in this way (such as the OP) have the oportunity to stop playing, whilst those that are happy to keep playing don't feel 'decieved' in any fashion.
Keep up the good work!
C.
New Scanner Idea!
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Parifactor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.04.12 14:05:00 -
[16]
On the one hand, it's nice that CCP lists it in the patch notes but on the other hand, mandatory opt-in is very bad. A way to do this would be a pop-up after the patch asking the user if he wants to participate. This would also increase the trust that CCP doesn't just snoop around like warden.
Quote: We're just logging it now for information purposes rather than just discarding it.
This is exactly the kind of response that could break the trust.
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors
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Posted - 2008.04.12 14:06:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Gone''Postal on 12/04/2008 14:06:10
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 12/04/2008 13:31:48 Why would we do it the Valve way when we can do it the CCP way?
And I want to really emphasize that we're not releasing a patch which allows us to snatch this information. This information is already exposed by your operating system for good reasons (well not so good reasons to some people). We're just logging it now for information purposes rather than just discarding it.
Also, posting in a Jenny thread.
Excellent news, Im pleased that your utlising already available data to improve the quality of game play. Also I appreciate you advertising the fact so that anyone who does not wish their information logged in this way (such as the OP) have the oportunity to stop playing, whilst those that are happy to keep playing don't feel 'decieved' in any fashion.
Keep up the good work!
C.
Agreed. CCP can take my inside leg size if it helps them code, fix program or whatever.
V8I
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Cassandra Wolf
Gallente Men in Blue Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2008.04.12 14:09:00 -
[18]
Funny thing is "the valve way" is to make surveys about your hardware by asking you/your system AND creating funny maps of the locations you die in their games, the shots you shoot, the ways you walk, the things you look at etc without asking you.. even in their "single player (you playing and whole valve devs laughing at you)"-games
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TheArchJudge
Gallente FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.12 14:13:00 -
[19]
If i can't get to play eve on whatever crap pc i have i am quitting the game! :P
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Euriti
Gallente SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.04.12 14:19:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Souisa well sure CCP, why dont you just take my browser history while your at it. That way you can see which forums i go to most on the eve-o website and create a better overall experience for me
Go outside please, you need to.
Blizzard did this, HUGE outrage by trolls on the forums. Think they got bansticks for being offensive and the rest of the community just said /care.
Also, they are not logging your ****.
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Rover Vitesse
Gallente FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.12 14:29:00 -
[21]
Originally by: TheArchJudge If i can't get to play eve on whatever crap pc i have i am quitting the game! :P
Good. I am sick of hearing about your donkey powered laptop.
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Siresa Talesi
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.12 15:15:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Parifactor On the one hand, it's nice that CCP lists it in the patch notes but on the other hand, mandatory opt-in is very bad. A way to do this would be a pop-up after the patch asking the user if he wants to participate. This would also increase the trust that CCP doesn't just snoop around like warden.
Quote: We're just logging it now for information purposes rather than just discarding it.
This is exactly the kind of response that could break the trust.
Exactly. Trust in CCP is tenuous at best at the moment. This is not exactly the sort of action/response that will improve that trust. I don't expect anything inherently wrong here, but I do believe that CCP is pusing their luck. "Space is filled with countless hours of boredom...punctuated by moments of abject terror." - Capn. James T. Kirk, Starfleet Academy |
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2008.04.12 15:16:00 -
[23]
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!
EBIL CCP SNATCHING MY SEX SITES FROM MY INTERNETS BROWSAR!
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Cailais
Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.04.12 15:20:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Rover Vitesse
Originally by: TheArchJudge If i can't get to play eve on whatever crap pc i have i am quitting the game! :P
Good. I am sick of hearing about your donkey powered laptop.
LMAO.
C.
New Scanner Idea!
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Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.04.12 15:22:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 12/04/2008 15:22:14 Omg CCP is checking which GPU i have, but that is classified as top secret.
Anyone who has problem with CCP knowing which gpu you are using, welcome to the real world.
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Kharadran Sullath
Caldari The Fallen Gingerbread Men Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.12 15:25:00 -
[26]
Big Brother sees you! ------
Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
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Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.04.12 15:27:00 -
[27]
*starts distributing tin foil hats*
Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
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CCP Prism X
C C P
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Posted - 2008.04.12 15:40:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Siresa Talesi Exactly. Trust in CCP is tenuous at best at the moment. This is not exactly the sort of action/response that will improve that trust. I don't expect anything inherently wrong here, but I do believe that CCP is pusing their luck.
Why are we trying to cause hysteria? The fact that this is already exposed by your operating system to allow code to take advantage of this is known by every programmer except perhaps the most hardcore anti-MS techies out there.. and even then they know because they like to bash MS for doing it. If you're not a programmer I already stated this. I honestly don't see any reason in reiterating it other than drawing the attention of those who don't already know that their device information is accessible by whatever they connect to.
Furthermore: You are connecting to our servers. Saying we're bad for wanting to know what is connecting to our servers is like saying that person X is bad because he has caller ID and you're calling him. ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006 |
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Achran Dexx
Caldari CompleXion Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.12 15:48:00 -
[29]
Cancelling your account costs nothing, hell it even saves us the effort of reading posts like this.
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Siresa Talesi
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.12 15:48:00 -
[30]
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: Siresa Talesi Exactly. Trust in CCP is tenuous at best at the moment. This is not exactly the sort of action/response that will improve that trust. I don't expect anything inherently wrong here, but I do believe that CCP is pusing their luck.
Why are we trying to cause hysteria? The fact that this is already exposed by your operating system to allow code to take advantage of this is known by every programmer except perhaps the most hardcore anti-MS techies out there.. and even then they know because they like to bash MS for doing it. If you're not a programmer I already stated this. I honestly don't see any reason in reiterating it other than drawing the attention of those who don't already know that their device information is accessible by whatever they connect to.
Furthermore: You are connecting to our servers. Saying we're bad for wanting to know what is connecting to our servers is like saying that person X is bad because he has caller ID and you're calling him.
Having the information available and actively logging it/tracking it without consulting your customers first are two very different things. Just because the ability is there through a flaw in MS does not mean that exploiting that flaw is ethical. I don't really have a problem with giving CCP my hardware information, but I think it could have been approached in a way that would have been a bit better for PR. Really, would it have been so hard to ask your customers first? Having the ability to do something without permission does not necessarily make it right to do. For me, the trust issue is not about gathering the data, but about the fact that you as a company seem to have few compunctions about taking ethically questionable action. This latest act is just one more demonstration of that fact. "Space is filled with countless hours of boredom...punctuated by moments of abject terror." - Capn. James T. Kirk, Starfleet Academy |
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Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.04.12 15:55:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Siresa Talesi Having the information available and actively logging it/tracking it without consulting your customers first are two very different things. Just because the ability is there through a flaw in MS does not mean that exploiting that flaw is ethical. I don't really have a problem with giving CCP my hardware information, but I think it could have been approached in a way that would have been a bit better for PR. Really, would it have been so hard to ask your customers first? Having the ability to do something without permission does not necessarily make it right to do. For me, the trust issue is not about gathering the data, but about the fact that you as a company seem to have few compunctions about taking ethically questionable action. This latest act is just one more demonstration of that fact.
Just stop and think for a minute about what you're saying. CCP isn't taking this information for some evil plot to rule the world, they're doing it to help YOU, the costumer! By obtaining this data they'll know how to make the game client run more effectively on your computer.
I can see where you're coming from with the "you should ask first" attitude, but to be honest, should that really be necessary for something as trivial as the name of a graphics card? As Prism stated already, Windows openly exposes this information already, so if you don't want people to know about what hardware you are using, I recommend you shut down your computer immediately.
Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.12 15:55:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Kerfira on 12/04/2008 15:59:04
Originally by: CCP Prism X Why would we do it the Valve way when we can do it the CCP way?
And I want to really emphasize that we're not releasing a patch which allows us to snatch this information. This information is already exposed by your operating system for good reasons (well not so good reasons to some people). We're just logging it now for information purposes rather than just discarding it.
I'm FAIRLY certain the the operating system doesn't send this information to the CCP servers as of now.
If you look at it that way, the OS also expose the content of all files on our harddisk for good reason (so that programs can use what is in there), but that doesn't make it OK for you to transmit that to your HQ and log it.
Where do you draw the line????
The above example is probably quite easy (of.c. you shouldn't read files), but what if you want to know the percentage of people using a RAM-drive to store cached data, purely for 'informational purposes' of.c.? Ok, this might still be fine.... Then your finance director (who's usually quite powerful) decided that it would be great to know WHICH RAM-drive programs we're using, so he can contact those companies and maybe get some cooperation going... Hmmm, starting to get close to something not ok... Now you got cooperation with XYZ RAM-drive company. They then 'request' from you a list of who is using their software...... DANGER! DANGER! DANGER!
You see where I'm going? Starting to log information about your customers PRIVATE belongings (THEIR computer, THEIR purchase of a graphics card, THEIR OS etc.) is a slippery slope... It'll be just too easy to add just one more little thing to log... and then another... and then another.
To be frank, you as a commercial entity can not be TRUSTED to do this purely for the benefit of the game!
This is why we're asking you to do this voluntarily! Make it through an option in the settings, and ask during setup. I'm sure 90% or more of EVE customers will gladly provide this information as long as you're up-front and open about WHAT information you're collecting (in detail), and allow us not to participate.
I REALLY can't see any reason for you not to be up-front, open or making it voluntary, unless of.c. your intentions AREN'T as white as you claim.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Pan Crastus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.04.12 15:55:00 -
[33]
Will CCP delete my d3dx*.dll now? :-(
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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Major Stallion
Four Rings Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.12 15:55:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Souisa well sure CCP, why dont you just take my browser history while your at it. That way you can see which forums i go to most on the eve-o website and create a better overall experience for me
keep whining. It could be worse....SOE was caught red-handed 3 years ago, installing root-kits unbeknownst to their player base without informing them of the process. Be thankful CCP has the integrity to let you know what information theyre collecting from you, alot of other companies wouldnt.
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Siege
Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2008.04.12 15:56:00 -
[35]
If folks are really against this sort of thing, then I highly suggest to stop using the internet and cut the cord already, because it's out there much more than you know.
Just as a quick example, I run a small and meaningless website for myself. The ISP has logging and statistics I can check. It doesn't give me specifics on everybody, but in a general sense I can find out about my visitors...... -what country they are in -what OS they use -what browser they use -your IP address -what search engine they used to find me -anything they were linked to me from -what words they used in a search engine -how many added me to their favorites -what plug-ins the browsers support.
And that's just if you visit my website, which has no significance to it at all. If you ever go to microsofts website for a windows update, prepare for a full probing of your software for valdity and proof of registration.
------ begin signature -----
Little known Eve fact, The original race names were: Amarr Empire, Caldar Empire, Minmatar Republic, The Jovians, and The Remanaquie Federation. |
Pan Crastus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:00:00 -
[36]
Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 12/04/2008 13:31:48 Why would we do it the Valve way when we can do it the CCP way?
And I want to really emphasize that we're not releasing a patch which allows us to snatch this information. This information is already exposed by your operating system for good reasons (well not so good reasons to some people). We're just logging it now for information purposes rather than just discarding it.
The OS does not expose it to arbitrary "business partners" or companies whose games we play.
Not making the disclosure optional is tactless to say the least. People are reluctant to disclose personal information and that's a reasonable attitude when just about everyone tries to exploit people's "profiles" for advertising purposes.
Are you going to send us mails with "awesome" offers like recommended graphics card upgrades from your "partners"?
You would of course refrain from doing things like that even if it cost you money. Just like RMT. Oh, wait...
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:01:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Siege If folks are really against this sort of thing, then I highly suggest to stop using the internet and cut the cord already, because it's out there much more than you know.
Just as a quick example, I run a small and meaningless website for myself. The ISP has logging and statistics I can check. It doesn't give me specifics on everybody, but in a general sense I can find out about my visitors...... -what country they are in -what OS they use -what browser they use -your IP address -what search engine they used to find me -anything they were linked to me from -what words they used in a search engine -how many added me to their favorites -what plug-ins the browsers support.
And that's just if you visit my website, which has no significance to it at all. If you ever go to microsofts website for a windows update, prepare for a full probing of your software for valdity and proof of registration.
You may just have caused a bunch of paranoid people to have an heart attack...
Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
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Falkrich Swifthand
Caldari eNinjas Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:02:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Siresa Talesi Just because the ability is there through a flaw in MS does not mean that exploiting that flaw is ethical.
What flaw? Direct-X / Direct-3D HAS to provide software with some information about your graphics card for it to be able to use it. i.e. Name, amount of memory, HDR support, etc.
Personally, I'm fine with CCP knowing what graphics card I have, although I would prefer an opt-out to stop other people whining about it.
nullnull
My sig is not my sig. |
Pan Crastus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:04:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Siege If folks are really against this sort of thing, then I highly suggest to stop using the internet and cut the cord already, because it's out there much more than you know.
Just as a quick example, I run a small and meaningless website for myself. The ISP has logging and statistics I can check. It doesn't give me specifics on everybody, but in a general sense I can find out about my visitors...... -what country they are in
Unless they use proxies / anonymizers.
Quote:
-what OS they use
Unless they obfuscate or remove their User-Agent string (very easy) and have router or something that doesn't allow remote OS fingerprinting.
Quote:
-what browser they use
Extremely easy to avoid.
Quote:
-your IP address
Same as country.
Quote:
-what search engine they used to find me -anything they were linked to me from -what words they used in a search engine
Referer headers can be faked easily as well.
Quote:
-how many added me to their favorites
blocking favicon access is easy too
Quote:
-what plug-ins the browsers support.
If they allow the browser to disclose it.
Quote:
And that's just if you visit my website, which has no significance to it at all. If you ever go to microsofts website for a windows update, prepare for a full probing of your software for valdity and proof of registration.
Measure up to the best, not the worst.
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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Siege
Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:17:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Siege on 12/04/2008 16:22:21
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Unless they use proxies / anonymizers.
Unless they obfuscate or remove their User-Agent string (very easy) and have router or something that doesn't allow remote OS fingerprinting.
Extremely easy to avoid.
Same as country.
Referer headers can be faked easily as well.
blocking favicon access is easy too
If they allow the browser to disclose it.
Measure up to the best, not the worst.
Of course, I would assume that anybody who knows all of this already.... would most likely not be too worried about CCP trying to find out their graphics card. Wouldn't the same software and techniques work in both situations?
But you are correct, there is a difference between the informed and the uninformed. I just tend to assume some folks already know things, and I don't need to bother them with this stuff. |
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Blue Binary
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:19:00 -
[41]
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: Siresa Talesi Exactly. Trust in CCP is tenuous at best at the moment. This is not exactly the sort of action/response that will improve that trust. I don't expect anything inherently wrong here, but I do believe that CCP is pusing their luck.
Why are we trying to cause hysteria? The fact that this is already exposed by your operating system to allow code to take advantage of this is known by every programmer except perhaps the most hardcore anti-MS techies out there.. and even then they know because they like to bash MS for doing it. If you're not a programmer I already stated this. I honestly don't see any reason in reiterating it other than drawing the attention of those who don't already know that their device information is accessible by whatever they connect to.
Furthermore: You are connecting to our servers. Saying we're bad for wanting to know what is connecting to our servers is like saying that person X is bad because he has caller ID and you're calling him.
I think I understand where your coming from when the Eve client asks the OS for the GPU/Sound/etc to configure the game. Tbqh if that is the info you are going to use then you shouldn't have said anything, and just went ahead and collected it; we would be none the wiser for it. Some folk will get excited about such things and think you are spying on them.
So long as your not collecting/intercepting personal identifiable information from my system without my permission, then there is no problem.
The paranoia in this thread... folk need to get a grip. CCP isn't being malicious.
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Pan Crastus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:23:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Siege
Of course, I would assume that anybody who knows all of this already.... would most likely not be too worried about CCP trying to find out their graphics card. Wouldn't the same software and techniques work in both situations?
Nope, custom spyware requires custom countermeasures and I'm sure CCP would forbid that explicitly as well ...
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Xioden Acap
Lightspeed Enterprises Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:35:00 -
[43]
Someone should post some of those little images that show the viewers personal information for kicks. Half the people who are complaining about it are probably already unknowingly giving out tons of personal information without knowing they're doing it. It isn't some targetted violation of privacy. It's no different than some guy standing on a street corner and keeping track of the color of each car that passes. They're using information already readily available to them, or the maker of any piece of software you have installed. And I'm sure if you were to look, you probably have something on your computer installed that the ToS allows them to do a lot more than simply use the information to see where their clients stand technology wise.
And sorry to burst your bubble, but you actually have already agreed to allow them to retrieve information. But of course, actually reading a license for someone obviously so concerned about they're privacy, is too much to ask: "You hereby grant CCP permission to: (i) extract hardware system profile data from your computer; " So how about we stop complaining about CCP doing something that you already agreed to allow them to?
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Siresa Talesi
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:36:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Blue Binary
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: Siresa Talesi Exactly. Trust in CCP is tenuous at best at the moment. This is not exactly the sort of action/response that will improve that trust. I don't expect anything inherently wrong here, but I do believe that CCP is pusing their luck.
Why are we trying to cause hysteria? The fact that this is already exposed by your operating system to allow code to take advantage of this is known by every programmer except perhaps the most hardcore anti-MS techies out there.. and even then they know because they like to bash MS for doing it. If you're not a programmer I already stated this. I honestly don't see any reason in reiterating it other than drawing the attention of those who don't already know that their device information is accessible by whatever they connect to.
Furthermore: You are connecting to our servers. Saying we're bad for wanting to know what is connecting to our servers is like saying that person X is bad because he has caller ID and you're calling him.
I think I understand where your coming from when the Eve client asks the OS for the GPU/Sound/etc to configure the game. Tbqh if that is the info you are going to use then you shouldn't have said anything, and just went ahead and collected it; we would be none the wiser for it. Some folk will get excited about such things and think you are spying on them.
So long as your not collecting/intercepting personal identifiable information from my system without my permission, then there is no problem.
The paranoia in this thread... folk need to get a grip. CCP isn't being malicious.
Proof?
Having the information avaialable to the client running on your computer is necessary for technical purposes. Retrieving that information in the servers and logging it has no such requirement. CCP has stated what they intend to use this data for, but other companies would typically also state specifically what they will not use it for.
I would feel much better about this if it were given as an option with a written guarantee that the information would not be used for commercial/marketing purposes. As it is now, I see no such assurance. This isn't about what is technically possible, it's about a missed opportunity for CCP to engender the trust and faith with their playerbase that they have been losing as of late. "Space is filled with countless hours of boredom...punctuated by moments of abject terror." - Capn. James T. Kirk, Starfleet Academy |
Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:42:00 -
[45]
Originally by: CCP Prism X Why would we do it the Valve way when we can do it the CCP way?
Why would you do it the CCP way when you can do it in a way that doesn't impinge on your customers privacy?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Siege
Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:50:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: CCP Prism X Why would we do it the Valve way when we can do it the CCP way?
Why would you do it the CCP way when you can do it in a way that doesn't impinge on your customers privacy?
Well, if only like 10% of the playerbase respond to a voluntary poll, the data is effectively useless. Just think about how many folks can't be bothered to read a news item when they log in that says "24 hour patch tomorrow, train a long skill". Then you've got the CCP haters that will intentionally put in false information just for kicks.
Just doing a simple data log gets a massively better response numbers as well as better accuracy. Besides, what are you worried about them getting? your name, address, phone number and credit card info? They already have that.
Though I do agree, having some type of "opt-out" option may not be a bad idea.
------ begin signature -----
Little known Eve fact, The original race names were: Amarr Empire, Caldar Empire, Minmatar Republic, The Jovians, and The Remanaquie Federation. |
Siresa Talesi
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2008.04.12 17:02:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Siresa Talesi on 12/04/2008 17:02:37
Originally by: Siege
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: CCP Prism X Why would we do it the Valve way when we can do it the CCP way?
Why would you do it the CCP way when you can do it in a way that doesn't impinge on your customers privacy?
Well, if only like 10% of the playerbase respond to a voluntary poll, the data is effectively useless. Just think about how many folks can't be bothered to read a news item when they log in that says "24 hour patch tomorrow, train a long skill". Then you've got the CCP haters that will intentionally put in false information just for kicks.
Just doing a simple data log gets a massively better response numbers as well as better accuracy. Besides, what are you worried about them getting? your name, address, phone number and credit card info? They already have that.
Though I do agree, having some type of "opt-out" option may not be a bad idea.
Actually, most statistical analyses would rate a 10% sample of a total population as a very accurate representation, hardly "useless." This is the way data collection of things like this has been handled for decades, and it worked. Why is such a method now invalid? "Space is filled with countless hours of boredom...punctuated by moments of abject terror." - Capn. James T. Kirk, Starfleet Academy |
Tok Machei
Caldari Shinra Shinra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.04.12 17:02:00 -
[48]
Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 12/04/2008 13:31:48 Why would we do it the Valve way when we can do it the CCP way?
And I want to really emphasize that we're not releasing a patch which allows us to snatch this information. This information is already exposed by your operating system for good reasons (well not so good reasons to some people). We're just logging it now for information purposes rather than just discarding it.
Also, posting in a Jenny thread.
so because you can you do it?
wow.... way to go ccp
how about you install a service and track "clients behaviour" to "increase our experience" ....
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Blue Binary
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.12 17:09:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Blue Binary on 12/04/2008 17:12:24
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
Originally by: Blue Binary
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: Siresa Talesi Exactly. Trust in CCP is tenuous at best at the moment. This is not exactly the sort of action/response that will improve that trust. I don't expect anything inherently wrong here, but I do believe that CCP is pusing their luck.
Why are we trying to cause hysteria? The fact that this is already exposed by your operating system to allow code to take advantage of this is known by every programmer except perhaps the most hardcore anti-MS techies out there.. and even then they know because they like to bash MS for doing it. If you're not a programmer I already stated this. I honestly don't see any reason in reiterating it other than drawing the attention of those who don't already know that their device information is accessible by whatever they connect to.
Furthermore: You are connecting to our servers. Saying we're bad for wanting to know what is connecting to our servers is like saying that person X is bad because he has caller ID and you're calling him.
I think I understand where your coming from when the Eve client asks the OS for the GPU/Sound/etc to configure the game. Tbqh if that is the info you are going to use then you shouldn't have said anything, and just went ahead and collected it; we would be none the wiser for it. Some folk will get excited about such things and think you are spying on them.
So long as your not collecting/intercepting personal identifiable information from my system without my permission, then there is no problem.
The paranoia in this thread... folk need to get a grip. CCP isn't being malicious.
Proof?
Why sow the seeds of doubt?
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
Having the information avaialable to the client running on your computer is necessary for technical purposes. Retrieving that information in the servers and logging it has no such requirement. CCP has stated what they intend to use this data for, but other companies would typically also state specifically what they will not use it for.
CCP already know my name, address, date of birth, credit card number. I honestly won't lose any sleep from them collecting data about what hardware i'm running. I mean come on, some folk proudly display their system specs in their sigs ffs.
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
I would feel much better about this if it were given as an option with a written guarantee that the information would not be used for commercial/marketing purposes. As it is now, I see no such assurance. This isn't about what is technically possible, it's about a missed opportunity for CCP to engender the trust and faith with their playerbase that they have been losing as of late.
I have only received newsletters from CCP, and certainly not any targeted marketing from third parties. ____________ Blue Binary |
Xioden Acap
Lightspeed Enterprises Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2008.04.12 17:10:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: CCP Prism X Why would we do it the Valve way when we can do it the CCP way?
Why would you do it the CCP way when you can do it in a way that doesn't impinge on your customers privacy?
Because their customers have already agreed to allow CCP to collect this data?
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.12 17:17:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Kerfira on 12/04/2008 17:17:53
Originally by: Siege
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: CCP Prism X Why would we do it the Valve way when we can do it the CCP way?
Why would you do it the CCP way when you can do it in a way that doesn't impinge on your customers privacy?
Besides, what are you worried about them getting? your name, address, phone number and credit card info? They already have that.
Once the line of them gathering data on customers computers has been crossed, they'll find excuses to add just a little bit more data to what they're collecting. They are, when all is said and done, a commercial company which loyalty is NOT to it's customer, but to its shareholders.
Look at the following scenario..... MicroSoft is one of CCP's biggest partners. A lot of CCP money is spent on MicroSoft services and products. Let's say that MicroSoft gives CCP this 'deal': "If you give us the home address and serial number of customers Windows installations, we'll give you a flat discount of 25% on all your purchases!" This only requires CCP to add a tiny amount of data to what they're gathering, the license number (also public on any windows machine).... The board of CCP hears about this, sees the $$$-increase of their shares, and orders this done.
This isn't really a far-fetched scenario. MicroSoft has been trying for years to do exactly this through windows itself, so they'd also try to do it through a partner.
I do use a licensed version of windows so I'm not personally worried about this scenario, but the whole point is that I don't want a commercial company cherry-picking what information from my computer they want, simply because I don't know what they'll take next without telling me!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.04.12 17:22:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
Actually, most statistical analyses would rate a 10% sample of a total population as a very accurate representation, hardly "useless." This is the way data collection of things like this has been handled for decades, and it worked. Why is such a method now invalid?
It depends, but I can see how 10% sample in this case would be more misleading than beneficial because of volunteer bias.
A random non-voluntary 10% sample would be very useful though. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.12 17:24:00 -
[53]
First CCP wants my credit card information, and billing information! And now my graphics card information!!! Is there no end to this invasion of my privacy!!!!???? ARGH!!!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Wild Rho
Amarr GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.04.12 17:25:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
The OS does not expose it to arbitrary "business partners" or companies whose games we play.
Not making the disclosure optional is tactless to say the least. People are reluctant to disclose personal information and that's a reasonable attitude when just about everyone tries to exploit people's "profiles" for advertising purposes.
Are you going to send us mails with "awesome" offers like recommended graphics card upgrades from your "partners"?
You would of course refrain from doing things like that even if it cost you money. Just like RMT. Oh, wait...
It's not "personal" information, it's some basic info on your graphics card provided by the OS card and they're using that information to help improve compatibility and reduce problems related to hardware issues.
The really daft thing is everything you've complained about in your post (and others like yours) has nothing to do with what CCP are doing, they're not collecting your personal information, they're not selling it to other companies or using it for advertising purposes. Stop being such drama queens.
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.12 17:25:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
Actually, most statistical analyses would rate a 10% sample of a total population as a very accurate representation, hardly "useless." This is the way data collection of things like this has been handled for decades, and it worked. Why is such a method now invalid?
It depends, but I can see how 10% sample in this case would be more misleading than beneficial because of volunteer bias.
A random non-voluntary 10% sample would be very useful though.
This is only true if there's a correlation between not being willing to divulge your data and what data CCP is leeching.... I can't really see there is, so it'll essentially be a random sample.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.12 17:27:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Wild Rho The really daft thing is everything you've complained about in your post (and others like yours) has nothing to do with what CCP are doing, they're not collecting your personal information, they're not selling it to other companies or using it for advertising purposes.
How do you know they're not? How do you know they won't expand it in the future??
You may trust CCP enough, but some doesn't....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Siege
Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2008.04.12 17:29:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Siresa Talesi Edited by: Siresa Talesi on 12/04/2008 17:02:37
Originally by: Siege
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: CCP Prism X Why would we do it the Valve way when we can do it the CCP way?
Why would you do it the CCP way when you can do it in a way that doesn't impinge on your customers privacy?
Well, if only like 10% of the playerbase respond to a voluntary poll, the data is effectively useless. Just think about how many folks can't be bothered to read a news item when they log in that says "24 hour patch tomorrow, train a long skill". Then you've got the CCP haters that will intentionally put in false information just for kicks.
Just doing a simple data log gets a massively better response numbers as well as better accuracy. Besides, what are you worried about them getting? your name, address, phone number and credit card info? They already have that.
Though I do agree, having some type of "opt-out" option may not be a bad idea.
Actually, most statistical analyses would rate a 10% sample of a total population as a very accurate representation, hardly "useless." This is the way data collection of things like this has been handled for decades, and it worked. Why is such a method now invalid?
A proper scientifically conducted poll is actually more complex and detailed than folks realise. There are a lot of checks and balances applied to make sure that no demographic is under or over represented. This is why the poll-takers approach YOU to get you to fill it out, not the other way around. Notice under most online polls, it says "not a scientific poll".
In this case, those who don't build/upgrade their own computers won't be able to accurately answer the questions and will have a good chance of either getting them wrong... or just get confused and not finish it. So you end up with data skewed to over-represent tech-saavy, high end users. And my guess is that this poll is about either implimentation of DX10 or support of the classic client. So it's important to get those low-end computer users included.
------ begin signature -----
Little known Eve fact, The original race names were: Amarr Empire, Caldar Empire, Minmatar Republic, The Jovians, and The Remanaquie Federation. |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.12 17:31:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Wild Rho The really daft thing is everything you've complained about in your post (and others like yours) has nothing to do with what CCP are doing, they're not collecting your personal information, they're not selling it to other companies or using it for advertising purposes.
How do you know they're not? How do you know they won't expand it in the future??
You may trust CCP enough, but some doesn't....
Goonswarm: Known for our unwavering trust of CCP.
What exactly do you think they're gonna get from this? The exact disposition of ATI vs nVidia vs Others cards?
Maybe it's a giant plan by CCP, ATI and nVidia to take over all graphics in the world!!! My eyes will never be safe again!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Siege
Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2008.04.12 17:33:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Siege on 12/04/2008 17:34:52
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Wild Rho The really daft thing is everything you've complained about in your post (and others like yours) has nothing to do with what CCP are doing, they're not collecting your personal information, they're not selling it to other companies or using it for advertising purposes.
How do you know they're not? How do you know they won't expand it in the future??
You may trust CCP enough, but some doesn't....
Goonswarm: Known for our unwavering trust of CCP.
What exactly do you think they're gonna get from this? The exact disposition of ATI vs nVidia vs Others cards?
Maybe it's a giant plan by CCP, ATI and nVidia to take over all graphics in the world!!! My eyes will never be safe again!
Or it may just be that they want to know if there are enough DX10 compatible cards out there to justify releasing the DX10 graphics? Or it may be that they want to know if it's still worth it to continue support of the classic graphics content.
Kinda like when they kept stats of OS use before discontinuing support for Win98. I mean, they HAVE done this before, just for other things instead of video cards.
------ begin signature -----
Little known Eve fact, The original race names were: Amarr Empire, Caldar Empire, Minmatar Republic, The Jovians, and The Remanaquie Federation. |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.12 17:36:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Siege Or it may just be that they want to know if there are enough DX10 compatible cards out there to justify releasing the DX10 graphics? Or it may be that they want to know if it's still worth it to continue support of the classic graphics content.
Kinda like when they kept stats of OS use before discontinuing support for Win98. I mean, they HAVE done this before, just for other things instead of video cards.
It could be. But I'm still gonna go with an evil plot to steal the world's graphics, with Carmen Sandiego as the mastermind behind this.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Lady Natacha
Minmatar Water and Power
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Posted - 2008.04.12 17:47:00 -
[61]
CCP could completely avoid a lot of mistrust issues here by clearly stating in writing (in their EULA) what they will NOT do with any data collected.
My bank and CC companies as well as the companies that make the software development tools I use all clearly state in general terms what any data collected will be used for, but most importantly, they all also contain clauses that detail specific limits as to exactly what the data can be used for, and details specifically who may see it, including 3rd parties.
My EVE sigs
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.12 17:54:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Kerfira on 12/04/2008 17:57:47
Originally by: An Anarchyyt What exactly do you think they're gonna get from this? The exact disposition of ATI vs nVidia vs Others cards?
I think they'll take the data their BUSINESS requires them to (see my post #51 above).
Once they start leeching data, it'll be SO easy for them to add just a little bit more.... for the good of the game of.c. (and CCP.... and partners.....). Problem is, at that point we have no way of knowing!
I don't trust ANY commercial company to go datamining on my PC. Why? Because their loyalty is not to me, but to their shareholders!
Besides, we're not really asking for anything they couldn't easily provide if their intentions were pure: 1. Ask us whether we want to participate or not, and respect a 'No'. 2. Provide FULL disclosure of what data is gathered, not just fluffy general phrases. A list of each specific piece of data!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad
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Posted - 2008.04.12 17:58:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Loyal Servant on 12/04/2008 18:00:45 Edited by: Loyal Servant on 12/04/2008 18:00:19 Edited by: Loyal Servant on 12/04/2008 17:59:38 Edited by: Loyal Servant on 12/04/2008 17:58:27 Oh for FRACKS SAKE PEOPLE!
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb174531.aspx
There is no foul play here. Specifically, look at what can be gleaned:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb173058.aspx
So.. okay for those people that don't know what this is and happen to see the LUID reference.. it's not persistent across reboots. When you reboot the LUID is different.
THERE IS NOTHING THERE THAT CAN HURT YOU
(Assuming they are using the DirectX interface, and I am sure they are.)
Get a grip people.
Edit: the fracking links dont work???? I am looking right at them in msdn ... greh im fixing it... Edit 2,3,4: FIXED!
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:02:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Loyal Servant (Assuming they are using the DirectX interface, and I am sure they are.)
First of all, assumptions are the mother of all f-ups...
Secondly, you have an amount of trust in CCP that others might not have. This is the whole point! WE want to decide who takes information from OUR PC!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Mutabae
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:02:00 -
[65]
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Furthermore: You are connecting to our servers. Saying we're bad for wanting to know what is connecting to our servers is like saying that person X is bad because he has caller ID and you're calling him.
HOW DARE YOU USE LOGIC TO REBUT :TINFOIL: CLAIMS.
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Pantaloon McPants
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:03:00 -
[66]
moral of this story .. ppl dont like handing out there information without permision regardless if it was "free to air" or not :)
at least you told people what was happening, i guess the next step would be to give them a "yes i approve" and "no i dont approve im a paranoid bastard" buttons.
trust = win
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:03:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Loyal Servant (Assuming they are using the DirectX interface, and I am sure they are.)
First of all, assumptions are the mother of all f-ups...
Secondly, you have an amount of trust in CCP that others might not have. This is the whole point! WE want to decide who takes information from OUR PC!
Your a moron. I am a programmer and I know that this information is taken from you by every other goddamn game you play on this internet so stop whining.
AT LEAST THEY TOLD YOU THEY WERE GETTING IT!
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:06:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Loyal Servant Your a moron.
I respect the impressive quality of your arguments!
If you have to resort to this one, you haven't got anything arguments of value!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Siresa Talesi
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:06:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
Actually, most statistical analyses would rate a 10% sample of a total population as a very accurate representation, hardly "useless." This is the way data collection of things like this has been handled for decades, and it worked. Why is such a method now invalid?
It depends, but I can see how 10% sample in this case would be more misleading than beneficial because of volunteer bias.
A random non-voluntary 10% sample would be very useful though.
So, there is a connection between being willing to voluntarily respond to surveys and a tendency to purchase certain computer hardware? Because that's the only circumstances which would cause "volunteer bias" in this case.
Originally by: Wild Rho
It's not "personal" information, it's some basic info on your graphics card provided by the OS and they're using that information to help improve compatibility and reduce problems related to hardware issues.
The really daft thing is everything you've complained about in your post (and others like yours) has nothing to do with what CCP are doing, they're not collecting your personal information, they're not selling it to other companies or using it for advertising purposes. Stop being such drama queens.
CCP already has personal information on its customers. This combined with hardware information is very valuable to marketers. So far, the only assurances we have that this information will not be used in such a manner has come from fanbois like you. Excuse me if I don't take your word as verification of CCP's actions.
Originally by: Lady Natacha CCP could completely avoid a lot of mistrust issues here by clearly stating in writing (in their EULA) what they will NOT do with any data collected.
My bank and CC companies as well as the companies that make the software development tools I use all clearly state in general terms what any data collected will be used for, but most importantly, they all also contain clauses that detail specific limits as to exactly what the data can be used for, and details specifically who may see it, including 3rd parties.
This, exactly. Such a statement would not necessarily prevent CCP from abusing the information, but it would allow an avenue of legal recourse if they did. The fact that they are unwilling to state what any other reputable company would do as standard practice does not exactly encourage trust among their customers. That's my issue here, not so much the information they want, but that they continually behave in a manner that disregards their customers. "Space is filled with countless hours of boredom...punctuated by moments of abject terror." - Capn. James T. Kirk, Starfleet Academy |
Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:07:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Loyal Servant Your a moron.
I respect the impressive quality of your arguments!
If you have to resort to this one, you haven't got anything arguments of value!
Post with your main?
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:08:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Loyal Servant
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Loyal Servant Your a moron.
I respect the impressive quality of your arguments!
If you have to resort to this one, you haven't got anything arguments of value!
Post with your main?
Another quality argument! Now it REALLY shows you haven't got any GOOD arguments to support you
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Alrione
Amarr Black Lagoon Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:08:00 -
[72]
The tinfoil is strong in this one. Guys, CCP knows your name, where you live and bank details PANIC -------------------------------- :-O Sig got nerfed. Remaking >.< |
Trathen
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:10:00 -
[73]
The next thread will be uproar over how they know our I.P. addresses and service providers.
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:11:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
CCP already has personal information on its customers. This combined with hardware information is very valuable to marketers. So far, the only assurances we have that this information will not be used in such a manner has come from fanbois like you. Excuse me if I don't take your word as verification of CCP's actions.
Insightful. I think like a programmer and immediately dismissed this because I know what I would use this for, and that's not it.
I am a F/OSS developer and this data would be used for other purposes, not to identify someone and their video hardware for marketing purposes.
Okay, you have my attention and yes you are correct... this can be a problem.
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:14:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Alrione The tinfoil is strong in this one. Guys, CCP knows your name, where you live and bank details PANIC
It's not so much a matter of tinfoil as of wanting to be the one in control of what data I deliver to a commercial company.
If they ask me, and provide a list of exactly what they want, I'm happy to oblige. If not, I don't KNOW whether they're up to no good!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Cailais
Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:17:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Alrione The tinfoil is strong in this one. Guys, CCP knows your name, where you live and bank details PANIC
It's not so much a matter of tinfoil as of wanting to be the one in control of what data I deliver to a commercial company.
If they ask me, and provide a list of exactly what they want, I'm happy to oblige. If not, I don't KNOW whether they're up to no good!
Its a trust issue.
If you dont trust said company dont give access - its as simple as that. If you dont trust CCP to protect your data, then dont connect to EVE Online.
There you go - you have your option.
C.
New Scanner Idea!
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:18:00 -
[77]
My GOD! What harm could CCP do if they got their hands on things like my credit card information, or my address?! MY IDENTITY HAS BEEN COMPROMISED! ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Wild Rho
Amarr GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:20:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Alrione The tinfoil is strong in this one. Guys, CCP knows your name, where you live and bank details PANIC
It's not so much a matter of tinfoil as of wanting to be the one in control of what data I deliver to a commercial company.
If they ask me, and provide a list of exactly what they want, I'm happy to oblige. If not, I don't KNOW whether they're up to no good!
Its a trust issue.
If you dont trust said company dont give access - its as simple as that. If you dont trust CCP to protect your data, then dont connect to EVE Online.
There you go - you have your option.
C.
That's it in a nutshell basically. If you honestly believe that CCP are up to no good or will be up to no good regarding such information then just leave. They've been pretty upfront and honest with stating what info they are logging and why.
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Glassback
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:23:00 -
[79]
Personally I don't give a monkies.
Anyone with enough resources can find out every last detail of you life if they tried hard enough. The point is there are 100's of millions of people and tbh unless it's DL child **** do you really think anyone cares THAT much about what you do with your life?
G.
LinkedIn
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Siresa Talesi
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:27:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Siresa Talesi on 12/04/2008 18:29:55 Edited by: Siresa Talesi on 12/04/2008 18:28:33
Originally by: Wild Rho
That's it in a nutshell basically. If you honestly believe that CCP are up to no good or will be up to no good regarding such information then just leave. They've been pretty upfront and honest with stating what info they are logging and why.
If that's true, then why would it be so hard to offer a written statement as part of their EULA to verify that? Is it so unreasonable to expect CCP to give the same assurances that any other reputable company would? This is standard operating procedure when any company wants your information, the exception being those who would misuse it. The fact that CCP has not given the same standard assurances is what raises suspicion.
"Space is filled with countless hours of boredom...punctuated by moments of abject terror." - Capn. James T. Kirk, Starfleet Academy |
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Bradley Hudson
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:31:00 -
[81]
The only thing here that needs to know what hardware I'm running is the software inside my machine. Outside my machine, the information sent to ccp servers should be game data only.
So CCP wants to exploit it's playerbase for marketing purposes? ROFL, this is the kind of stuff that always digs a big hole for CCP.
Bradley.ini
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:36:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Bradley Hudson So CCP wants to exploit it's playerbase for marketing purposes? ROFL, this is the kind of stuff that always digs a big hole for CCP.
Bradley.ini
Please explain how this would be "exploited for marketing purposes" and not "exploited for more thorough QA."
---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
VinkNut
Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:40:00 -
[83]
oh shut up you weirdo's, seriously who cares ?
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Cailais
Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:42:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Siresa Talesi Edited by: Siresa Talesi on 12/04/2008 18:29:55 Edited by: Siresa Talesi on 12/04/2008 18:28:33
Originally by: Wild Rho
That's it in a nutshell basically. If you honestly believe that CCP are up to no good or will be up to no good regarding such information then just leave. They've been pretty upfront and honest with stating what info they are logging and why.
If that's true, then why would it be so hard to offer a written statement as part of their EULA to verify that? Is it so unreasonable to expect CCP to give the same assurances that any other reputable company would? This is standard operating procedure when any company wants your information, the exception being those who would misuse it. The fact that CCP has not given the same standard assurances is what raises suspicion.
Depends on what you deem 'reasonable action'. Again, if it doesnt meet your exacting requirements to the extent that you do not trust CCP then simply quit.
Really, its that simple.
C.
New Scanner Idea!
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:51:00 -
[85]
I don't midn marketting putpose cuz if my bilboard would habe some contant. Honesly, it is not realy a prublem. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Recruitment -KB- |
Siresa Talesi
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:52:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Bradley Hudson So CCP wants to exploit it's playerbase for marketing purposes? ROFL, this is the kind of stuff that always digs a big hole for CCP.
Bradley.ini
Please explain how this would be "exploited for marketing purposes" and not "exploited for more thorough QA."
I would rather CCP explain that. "Space is filled with countless hours of boredom...punctuated by moments of abject terror." - Capn. James T. Kirk, Starfleet Academy |
Siresa Talesi
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.12 18:55:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Cailais Depends on what you deem 'reasonable action'. Again, if it doesnt meet your exacting requirements to the extent that you do not trust CCP then simply quit.
Really, its that simple.
C.
What is so exacting about wanting a standard privacy disclaimer??? Honestly, I'm not asking that much, am I? "Space is filled with countless hours of boredom...punctuated by moments of abject terror." - Capn. James T. Kirk, Starfleet Academy |
Neth'Rae
Gallente Neth's Workshop
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Posted - 2008.04.12 19:13:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Kerfira but the whole point is that I don't want a commercial company cherry-picking what information from my computer they want, simply because I don't know what they'll take next without telling me!
Uhm.. That doesn't make sense at all.. Then you should not be playing at all, because that can happen even if they stop collecting the GPU information, so that argument is totally irrelevant..
It's like, the cleaner at your company says "I'm gonna start writting down how dirty each room I'm cleaning is" and you tell him "noway, then you might start writing down something else as well and not tell me".. But he might do that anyway, so it's not really a relevant argument..
Request signatures at EVE-GFX |
Blue Binary
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.04.12 19:14:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
Originally by: Cailais Depends on what you deem 'reasonable action'. Again, if it doesnt meet your exacting requirements to the extent that you do not trust CCP then simply quit.
Really, its that simple.
C.
What is so exacting about wanting a standard privacy disclaimer??? Honestly, I'm not asking that much, am I?
Dear Miss Neurosis,
If you live in Europe you are protected by The Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations, 2003. It states you have to be given the option of an "opt-out" in any marketing material sent to you.
Under UK law (Data Protection Act 1998), you have to tell the individual what you are doing with the information you are collecting. You can put in writing if you object to receiving any direct marketing material.
Iceland also has privacy laws, but i don't understand Icelandic to read the details.
I'm not sure if CCP fall under the duristiction of UK law. They have premises (servers) located in London, so they must operate under UK law as well as Icelandic law?
Anyway, as others have pointed out if you really object to it, then simply quit Eve. Or consult a lawyer...
Personally, i think your making mountains. ____________ Blue Binary |
F'nog
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2008.04.12 19:17:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Wild Rho The really daft thing is everything you've complained about in your post (and others like yours) has nothing to do with what CCP are doing, they're not collecting your personal information, they're not selling it to other companies or using it for advertising purposes.
How do you know they're not? How do you know they won't expand it in the future??
You may trust CCP enough, but some doesn't....
So you can trust CCP with all sorts of personal info, like your credit card number, but your graphics card, or any other type of hardware in your computer is over the line? That makes sense. |
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Anson Halleck
Lost Eden
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Posted - 2008.04.12 19:25:00 -
[91]
Originally by: F'nog So you can trust CCP with all sorts of personal info, like your credit card number, but your graphics card, or any other type of hardware in your computer is over the line? That makes sense.
Heh, good point! |
Ivy Axisur
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Posted - 2008.04.12 19:28:00 -
[92]
This has got to be one of the dumbest posts ever...
Keep your paranoid idiocy to yourself.
I for one am glad that the programers who some in this community constantly insult for their "bugs" are taking proactive steps to test future solfware releases on YOUR hardware config.
This will provide better support and more reliable patches.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.12 19:28:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Kerfira Why? Because their loyalty is not to me, but to their shareholders!
I believe CCP is a privately held company.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Neth'Rae
Gallente Neth's Workshop
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Posted - 2008.04.12 19:30:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Neth''Rae on 12/04/2008 19:31:37
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Wild Rho The really daft thing is everything you've complained about in your post (and others like yours) has nothing to do with what CCP are doing, they're not collecting your personal information, they're not selling it to other companies or using it for advertising purposes.
How do you know they're not? How do you know they won't expand it in the future??
You may trust CCP enough, but some doesn't....
So if they say that they will stop collecting the gpu information - but in reality they don't.. How do you know!? And maybe they are already collecting private information.. How do you know!? Maybe they spend your subscription money on drugs instead of server upgrades.. How do you know!?
Can't you see that this is irrelevant, because if you don't trust ccp anyways then there's no end to what they might be doing... How do you know!?
Request signatures at EVE-GFX |
Cutie Chaser
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.12 19:34:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Neth'Rae
Maybe they spend your subscription money on drugs instead of server upgrades.. How do you know!?
With all the crap they get on these forums I hope that they spend at least some of it on drugs.
I wouldn't have their job w/o the occasional company-sponsored trip to Amsterdam for some green and maybe a kiss and a cuddle.
*** Thats a Templar, the amarr fighter. Its a combat drone used by carriers. |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.04.12 19:35:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
Actually, most statistical analyses would rate a 10% sample of a total population as a very accurate representation, hardly "useless." This is the way data collection of things like this has been handled for decades, and it worked. Why is such a method now invalid?
It depends, but I can see how 10% sample in this case would be more misleading than beneficial because of volunteer bias.
A random non-voluntary 10% sample would be very useful though.
So, there is a connection between being willing to voluntarily respond to surveys and a tendency to purchase certain computer hardware? Because that's the only circumstances which would cause "volunteer bias" in this case.
Is it plausible that there would be a significant volunteer bias? Yes, absolutely. Would there actually be one? That's the problem. There's no way of knowing without a different sample that minimized self-selection.
* * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
DigitalCommunist
Obsidian Core
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Posted - 2008.04.12 19:36:00 -
[97]
I'm actually surprised this hasn't been done since EVE began, considering they use hardware configurations to distinguish one PC using multiple IPs. But like he said, they already have the info, the only difference is whether or not to discard it or turn it into a nice pie chart.
Some people seem to forget that software is simply instructions for your hardware, and this game isn't being played on consoles with one configuration. _______________________________ http://epicwords.net/ |
Batwigg
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Posted - 2008.04.12 19:41:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Batwigg on 12/04/2008 19:42:08 Oh god, the sheer amount of stupid in this thread is mind blowing.
It seems that people will start running around like headless chickens, screaming "MAH PRIVACY!!!!" for any silly excuse these days.
Honestly. If you feel that CCP is violating your PRIVACY by collecting some very basic info on your computer, then you are nuts. CCP isn't collecting any relevant information to your person whatsoever, and thus, by the very definition of the word, this is not a invasion of your PRIVACY. Take your tinfoil hats somewhere else.
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Siege
Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2008.04.12 19:47:00 -
[99]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist I'm actually surprised this hasn't been done since EVE began, considering they use hardware configurations to distinguish one PC using multiple IPs. But like he said, they already have the info, the only difference is whether or not to discard it or turn it into a nice pie chart.
Some people seem to forget that software is simply instructions for your hardware, and this game isn't being played on consoles with one configuration.
It WAS done at least one other time that I know of, and that's when they did the statistics regarding OS useage, prior to halting support for Win98
------ begin signature -----
Little known Eve fact, The original race names were: Amarr Empire, Caldar Empire, Minmatar Republic, The Jovians, and The Remanaquie Federation. |
Luh Windan
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2008.04.12 19:47:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Batwigg this is not a invasion of your PRIVACY. Take your tinfoil hats somewhere else.
I agree - this is not an invasion of my privacy - it's an invasion of my poor computers privacy - even I don't know what it's graphics card is without looking....
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Shadow Joy
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Posted - 2008.04.12 19:57:00 -
[101]
There are lots of legitimate things to gripe at CCP about.
This isn't one of them.
Fact is they could of collected all the information they wanted without saying anything, and the majority of the player base would have never known. And I bet the portion who are savvy enough to detect it wouldn't care.
Way to take an attempt to be more open and turn it into a witch hunt.
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MT Pjar
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Posted - 2008.04.12 20:05:00 -
[102]
For lunch specials today, we have the Fanbois Special, a delicate maduro nose served in between two hindquarters, goes well with everything and anything.
We also have the 3D Policy FricassTe, a whole live chicken prepared by forcing it into the corner and choking it till tells us what graphic card it's been using.
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Cutie Chaser
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.12 20:08:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Cutie Chaser on 12/04/2008 20:10:30
Originally by: Luh Windan
I agree - this is not an invasion of my privacy - it's an invasion of my poor computers privacy - even I don't know what it's graphics card is without looking....
Can you invade a computers privacy
I mean, how can you get consent from the computer itself? Not only that, and even if you could, is there any computer that can both play eve and is old enough to give consent? Both my boxes would be too young to enter into any legal contracts or consent to anything, except maybe in some REALLY backwards country.
Originally by: MT Pjar For lunch specials today, we have the Fanbois Special, a delicate maduro nose served in between two hindquarters, goes well with everything and anything.
We also have the 3D Policy FricassTe, a whole live chicken prepared by forcing it into the corner and choking it till tells us what graphic card it's been using.
Luckily people are here to compliment this meal with a big bowl of PARANOIA and a side order of technical-knowledge incompetence, all served up in a GIANT TINFOIL HAT.
*** Thats a Templar, the amarr fighter. Its a combat drone used by carriers. |
Feilamya
Minmatar Pelennor Swarm
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Posted - 2008.04.12 20:09:00 -
[104]
CCP won't get my hardware details.
I know how to protect it
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No21
Malevolent Intervention Reavers.
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Posted - 2008.04.12 20:13:00 -
[105]
Still, it would be in our interest to know what exactly they will use it for and not. Crowd Control Productions has a reputation to uphold, it would be good to answer our/the concerns if they like to keep it in good form.
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Marlona Sky
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.12 20:31:00 -
[106]
I don't care if they get hardware data from me. I have nothing to hide. Maybe some of you do?...
There has to be some level of trust in anything in the world or we all would just stay curled up in a corner afraid of everything.
One of the most worthless post ever imo. Seriously, get a life.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you and... scouts, logistic ships, people to web you, alts with bonuses, not fitting nice gear, avoiding trafic hubs, etc... easy right?? |
Asuka Smith
Gallente StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.04.12 20:53:00 -
[107]
This thread is why Dev's have stopped posting. Prism, thanks for braving the pack of wolves.
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Siresa Talesi
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.12 21:03:00 -
[108]
Originally by: John Bishop honestly you naysayers are idiots. and this is a trust issue???? you give them credit card details,,, have they misused that trust??? i mean of all the things you could be worried about them knowing,,,,
i hope you pull your heads out of your collective asses before you suffocate.
Idiocy is being willfully ignorant and intentionally naieve.
Yes, I give them credit card details. If they were to abuse this information, it would quickly show up on my billing statement and I would be able to dispute it and trace the perpetrator. There are sa***uards in place.
Taking credit card details in combination with hardware data is a powerful and valuable tool to hardware marketers. Anyone who doesn't recognize this knows nothing about marketing. Because of this, it is considered good faith and standard ethical practice for companies wanting this information for legitimate purposes to request consent to gather it and use it as well as to issue written (i.e. legal) statements to their customers detailing what the information will and will not be used for. This provides a legal sa***uard for the customers, as if the information is misused, they will have cause for recourse.
CCP has issued no such statements, and as such no sa***uards in place. We are not expected to take it on their word that there will be no abuse, as no such word has been given. We are left only to rely on pure trust without anything on the part of CCP to solidify that trust. Remember that this is coming from a company that in recent past has had a number of abuse scandals from within, which were dealt with rather weakly. Even if CCP as a company would not abuse the information, there is little guarantee against abuse by individual employees.
The fact is that while the software can query the hardware information, there is no reason for the information to go beyond the client-side software without the consent of the user. In a questionable move, CCP has decided to catalog such information without the permission of their customers, or the assurance that it will not be abused. "Space is filled with countless hours of boredom...punctuated by moments of abject terror." - Capn. James T. Kirk, Starfleet Academy |
Siresa Talesi
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.12 21:05:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Siresa Talesi on 12/04/2008 21:05:12
Originally by: Blue Binary
Dear Miss Neurosis,
If you live in Europe you are protected by The Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations, 2003. It states you have to be given the option of an "opt-out" in any marketing material sent to you.
Under UK law (Data Protection Act 1998), you have to tell the individual what you are doing with the information you are collecting. You can put in writing if you object to receiving any direct marketing material.
Iceland also has privacy laws, but i don't understand Icelandic to read the details.
I'm not sure if CCP fall under the duristiction of UK law. They have premises (servers) located in London, so they must operate under UK law as well as Icelandic law?
Anyway, as others have pointed out if you really object to it, then simply quit Eve. Or consult a lawyer...
Personally, i think your making mountains.
Expecting standard customer legal protection makes me neurotic? Hmm, hyperbole and insults in the same post, how nice.
You base all your statements on one assumption. I do not live in any part of Europe, therefore the rest of your post is worthless to me.
Have I made mountains out of this? Not my intention, I've only been attempting to point out why CCP's actions in this case could be construed as less than trustworthy, especially in the shadow of previous events. I think the statements of others characterizing anyone who takes issue with this as either mentally unstable or unintelligent (see John Bishop above) have done much more to overinflate the issue.
All I seek is the same standard courtesy that a reputable, trustworthy company would give its customers. The fact that CCP has not done so, whether intentionally or just because they didn't even consider it, is frankly damaging to their customer relations. I will state it for the fourth time now: I personally would have no problem giving this information to CCP were it asked of me. The very act of the request is a show of good faith. The fact is that this situation could have been good PR for CCP if it had been handled correctly, but they botched it. If you cannot see why some would find such actions insulting at the least, and dishonest at the worst, then I can only conclude that you ignore it willfully out of either stuborness or stupidity. "Space is filled with countless hours of boredom...punctuated by moments of abject terror." - Capn. James T. Kirk, Starfleet Academy |
Mikhail Koshkin
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Posted - 2008.04.12 21:21:00 -
[110]
It's easy to see why CCP doesn't want to ask people to answer the bloody question.
When you go to a website and something pops up asking you to participate in a short survey for QA purposes... now be honest... how many people click NO or just close the window?
Pretty close to All, I'd say.
Now, how would this idea work while starting up a game with rabidly devoted players, like, say, EVE?
'Hmmm... Nope, gimme the login screen. LOGIN. DAMNIT. -clickclickclickclick-
It just won't work. Even if people here say they'd willingly participate if given the option, I bet they wouldn't. I don't care if CCP knows what GPU I'm using. Hell, I'll tell them right here. I have a GeForce 8500GT on my PC and Intel GMA950 on my Mac. Look, I've just told everyone. Someone do something bad to me.
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Captain Agemman
Minmatar Legio Ultra
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Posted - 2008.04.12 21:27:00 -
[111]
Guys, if you don't want your PC to send out informations, please disconnect it from the internet now. Thank you.
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Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.12 21:28:00 -
[112]
Someone wake me up, I'm having a dream where people are flaming a company for using readily available information to improve the game for its players.
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Neth'Rae
Gallente Neth's Workshop
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Posted - 2008.04.12 21:54:00 -
[113]
Seriously, Haven't any of you ever applied for a MMO-Beta test where you had to send your dxdiag.txt?
Request signatures at EVE-GFX |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.04.12 21:54:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Thorradin Someone wake me up, I'm having a dream where people are flaming a company for using readily available information to improve the game for its players.
Can't you see it? They flame at CCP because making things better would rob them of things to flame about. Now that I typed it, everything makes SO much more sense. -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds
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Rshu Jhorlk
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Posted - 2008.04.12 21:58:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Thorradin Someone wake me up, I'm having a dream where people are flaming a company for using readily available information to improve the game for its players.
*makes note that you apparently have a keyboard attached to your computer*
Forums: ... RABBLE! Rabblerabblerabblerabblerabblerabblerabble!!!
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Cyriel Longinus
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.04.12 22:05:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Thorradin Someone wake me up, I'm having a dream where people are flaming a company for using readily available information to improve the game for its players.
Yea man. It's r3tard3d.
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Lt Angus
Caldari Wicked Crew
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Posted - 2008.04.12 22:12:00 -
[117]
I miss the good old day when you had to know what you were doing to use the interweb, seems they let anyone on these days |
J Valkor
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.04.12 22:20:00 -
[118]
Oh Goons. Keep trolling EVE to try and destroy it with stupid paranoid **** like this.
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The Belgian
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Posted - 2008.04.12 22:24:00 -
[119]
Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 12/04/2008 13:31:48 Why would we do it the Valve way when we can do it the CCP way?
And I want to really emphasize that we're not releasing a patch which allows us to snatch this information. This information is already exposed by your operating system for good reasons (well not so good reasons to some people). We're just logging it now for information purposes rather than just discarding it.
Also, posting in a Jenny thread.
It does not really matter. There's only 3 main types of graphics cards available. Those based on ATI, Nvidia or Intel GPU's. Since there's a lot more to graphic performance besides just the type of card, it's not going to do much for you as far as future improvements go.
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Ashlee Darksky
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Posted - 2008.04.12 22:51:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Souisa This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.
Regards, The EVE Online Moderation team
Originally by: Souisa This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.
Regards, The EVE Online Moderation team
Hahahahaha! ROFL! Pwned, twice!!
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Tom Willson
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Posted - 2008.04.12 23:33:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Tom Willson on 12/04/2008 23:35:20 If you are so concerned about this just quit. There's no real point in arguing about it since unless you mean you care about our lives and that ye'll weep for us when CCP comes along, hand in hand with Microsoft to stomp on our little houses.
They won't log your info anymore, you'll be happy and we can keep the forums cleaner from stuff we don't care about. This falls into the same category as announcing "I'm leaving EVE due to <Insert pointless whine here>".
And if you merely do this to try and change stuff read the x other posts by people, and by CPP. If you can't trust this then see top, quit.
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Aism
Caldari FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.12 23:37:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Rover Vitesse
Originally by: TheArchJudge If i can't get to play eve on whatever crap pc i have i am quitting the game! :P
Good. I am sick of hearing about your donkey powered laptop.
I second your donkey powered laptop and raise you a gerbil powered one!
Aism
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Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.12 23:41:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Kerfira I don't trust ANY commercial company to go datamining on my PC. Why? Because their loyalty is not to me, but to their shareholders!
And you just missed something alot of people miss.
If CCP's loyalty is to their shareholders, then they will do things to make the shareholders happy.
Collecting GFX data to help improve the game and make it more appealing for playings, causing higher account retention means more money. Shareholders are happy.
Collecting GFX data, then deciding to collect more data that isn't needed, would cause backlash like with SOE's rootkit, causing players to leave and revenue to drop. Shareholders are unhappy. |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.12 23:46:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Thorradin
Originally by: Kerfira I don't trust ANY commercial company to go datamining on my PC. Why? Because their loyalty is not to me, but to their shareholders!
And you just missed something alot of people miss.
If CCP's loyalty is to their shareholders, then they will do things to make the shareholders happy.
Collecting GFX data to help improve the game and make it more appealing for playings, causing higher account retention means more money. Shareholders are happy.
Collecting GFX data, then deciding to collect more data that isn't needed, would cause backlash like with SOE's rootkit, causing players to leave and revenue to drop. Shareholders are unhappy.
CCP is not a public company, therefore I'm fairly certain that it doesn't have shareholders. |
Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.13 00:00:00 -
[125]
Heh..great mentality.
Players: "OMG CCP FIX YOUR GAME SO ITS COMPATIBLE WITH ALL OUR DODGY GPU'S!!" CCP: Okay Players: "..WTF?? OMFG!! CCP YOU ARE VIOLATING OUR PRIVACY!! I NEVER SAID YOU COULD HAVE MY GPU DETAILS!!" CCP: ..but... Players: "NO!! YOU ARE EBIL!! YOU WILL SELL MY DETAILS TO FICTIONAL SHAREHOLDERS THAT DONT EXIST AND VARIOUS MARKET AVENUES FOR PROFITZ!!" CCP: "..But you said..." Players: "AMAGAWD WHY DIDNT YOU TELL US!!!" CCP: "We just wanted to make the game bett*is interupted*" Players: "FIX THE GAME AND DONT STEAL MAH COMPUTER INFOz!!" CCP: ...
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Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.13 00:03:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Siresa Talesi Edited by: Siresa Talesi on 12/04/2008 18:29:55 Edited by: Siresa Talesi on 12/04/2008 18:28:33
Originally by: Wild Rho
That's it in a nutshell basically. If you honestly believe that CCP are up to no good or will be up to no good regarding such information then just leave. They've been pretty upfront and honest with stating what info they are logging and why.
If that's true, then why would it be so hard to offer a written statement as part of their EULA to verify that? Is it so unreasonable to expect CCP to give the same assurances that any other reputable company would? This is standard operating procedure when any company wants your information, the exception being those who would misuse it. The fact that CCP has not given the same standard assurances is what raises suspicion.
The EULA already states that CCP may collect data from you:
D. Software Updates CCP may from time to time update or otherwise modify the Software electronically. You hereby grant CCP permission to: (i) extract hardware system profile data from your computer; (ii) extract information from your computer's file directories pertaining to the Game and your ability to access the System; (iii) download to your computer content and Game files and any data related to the operation of the Game. The foregoing applies to any computer from which you log into the System using your Account.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.04.13 00:13:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Cadela Fria Heh..great mentality.
Players: "OMG CCP FIX YOUR GAME SO ITS COMPATIBLE WITH ALL OUR DODGY GPU'S!!" CCP: Okay Players: "..WTF?? OMFG!! CCP YOU ARE VIOLATING OUR PRIVACY!! I NEVER SAID YOU COULD HAVE MY GPU DETAILS!!" CCP: ..but... Players: "NO!! YOU ARE EBIL!! YOU WILL SELL MY DETAILS TO FICTIONAL SHAREHOLDERS THAT DONT EXIST AND VARIOUS MARKET AVENUES FOR PROFITZ!!" CCP: "..But you said..." Players: "AMAGAWD WHY DIDNT YOU TELL US!!!" CCP: "We just wanted to make the game bett*is interupted*" Players: "FIX THE GAME AND DONT STEAL MAH COMPUTER INFOz!!" CCP: ...
Sad but true :(
"NOW FIX THE DAMN GAME OR I WILL QUIT WITH ALL OF MY ACCOUNTS AND ALL MY FRIENDS WILL QUIT TOO AND I AM WRITING IN CAPS BECAUSE I AM A PAYING CUSTOMER ANDIWILLWRITEINCAPSASLONGASIWANTANDRABBLERABBLERABBLEBADGERBADGERMUSHROOMSNAKELOLOLOLOLNEWBSROFLZOMGMAO!!!!!!!!1111oneeleven!!"
No wonder the devs are feeling so abused |
Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.13 00:21:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Thorradin
Originally by: Kerfira I don't trust ANY commercial company to go datamining on my PC. Why? Because their loyalty is not to me, but to their shareholders!
And you just missed something alot of people miss.
If CCP's loyalty is to their shareholders, then they will do things to make the shareholders happy.
Collecting GFX data to help improve the game and make it more appealing for playings, causing higher account retention means more money. Shareholders are happy.
Collecting GFX data, then deciding to collect more data that isn't needed, would cause backlash like with SOE's rootkit, causing players to leave and revenue to drop. Shareholders are unhappy.
CCP is not a public company, therefore I'm fairly certain that it doesn't have shareholders.
Then replace shareholders with whoever is getting all the revenue, would still be just as valid. |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.13 00:25:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Thorradin Then replace shareholders with whoever is getting all the revenue, would still be just as valid.
What point? Suggesting that CCP is loyal to itself is like suggesting that human being generally don't like dying.
What possible reason could they have for this aside from improving their QA procedures and developing more accurate testing environments? |
Kharadran Sullath
Caldari The Fallen Gingerbread Men Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.13 00:30:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Thorradin The EULA already states that CCP may collect data from you:
D. Software Updates CCP may from time to time update or otherwise modify the Software electronically. You hereby grant CCP permission to: (i) extract hardware system profile data from your computer; (ii) extract information from your computer's file directories pertaining to the Game and your ability to access the System; (iii) download to your computer content and Game files and any data related to the operation of the Game. The foregoing applies to any computer from which you log into the System using your Account.
And that's the end of the argument. Everyone who has spent too much time with "The Matrix", "A Scanner Darkly" and "1984" can go away. ------
Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
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Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.13 00:37:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Thorradin Then replace shareholders with whoever is getting all the revenue, would still be just as valid.
What point? Suggesting that CCP is loyal to itself is like suggesting that human being generally don't like dying.
What possible reason could they have for this aside from improving their QA procedures and developing more accurate testing environments?
That's my point. Someone was raving that CCP would sell the info or whatever, yet doing so would cost them more than they'd likely gain, and since no company is going to intentionally hurt itself, it's not likely CCP is going to start selling GPU info and causing discontent with the players when they can use to to improve the game and their income.
tl;dr version:
CCP aren't going to sell the info because it will do them more harm than good.
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Parifactor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.04.13 00:38:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Thorradin The EULA already states that CCP may collect data from you:
D. Software Updates CCP may from time to time update or otherwise modify the Software electronically. You hereby grant CCP permission to: (i) extract hardware system profile data from your computer; (ii) extract information from your computer's file directories pertaining to the Game and your ability to access the System; (iii) download to your computer content and Game files and any data related to the operation of the Game. The foregoing applies to any computer from which you log into the System using your Account.
I did read the EULA when I signed up and I'm fairly certain (i) was missing. Must have been in one of the EULA updates over the last few years.
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Major Death
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.04.13 00:57:00 -
[133]
Why Worry. This is just CCP trying to raise the bar again when it comes to patch screw ups. Last time they rendered PC's unbootable by knocking out the OS. This time they aim to go one further and destroy hardware (endless test loop overheats GPU). Who knows, maybe the ambulation patch will injure users?
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Octaviun
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.13 01:07:00 -
[134]
Why do people post this crap forgive CCP for trying to improve your performance
I don't think anyone really cares if their computer specs are taken CCP even told you before they did it another company would probably take it anyways if they wanted to use it without telling you.
Thanks CCP for improving my game. |
Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.13 01:27:00 -
[135]
Next you'll whine about your IPs being recorded... Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Animin Mannja
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Posted - 2008.04.13 02:38:00 -
[136]
Also from the EULA:
Quote: B. Personal Information CCP does not guarantee that personal information transmitted to the System, including without limitation information in your Account, will not be disclosed to third parties. While CCP's aim is to keep your personal information confidential and CCP employs security measures to protect the System, third parties may unlawfully intercept transmissions or private communications, or access data within the System. Additionally, CCP may (and you hereby expressly authorize CCP to) disclose information about you to private entities, law enforcement or other government officials, as CCP, in its sole discretion, deems necessary or appropriate to investigate or resolve possible crimes or to respond to judicial, regulatory, agency or similar inquiries.
CCP may monitor usage of the System to gather statistical information that it may disclose to third parties. CCP may also contact you using the information you provided to, for example, provide technical support, respond to user inquiries, transmit questionnaires and offer products and services. You may also verify and update your Account information by logging into your Account through the account management page at https://secure.eve-online.com/login.asp.
Note that it differentiates between personal and statistical information. They'll be able to tell people "63% of users use Nvidia cards" but can't tie that to personal info unless legal doohickeys are involved. Oh and that first bit "does not guarantee" is just CYA in case of hackers.
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Shaun Klaroh
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Posted - 2008.04.13 04:44:00 -
[137]
I'm usually not a big fan of logging, but I really don't see what the problem is here. By understanding what cards are being used, CCP can pro-actively select which cards to support. One thing that can possibly be holding the system back is legacy support for older hardware. By having this information available, CCP will be able to make decisions that need to be made about how to improve the client. ----
By the way.. this is the best thread I've ever read.
And now for something completely different.
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Amastat
Caldari Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.04.13 05:39:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Amastat on 13/04/2008 05:39:33 This is a log entry from GM petitions:
--- -- 11/06/2007: WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE RWAR RWAR WHINE WHINE NERF NERF NERF WHINE WHINE PIRATE GRIEF GRIEF GRIEF WHINE CRY CRY CRY WHINE CRY
11/08/2007: CRY CRY CRY CRY CRY CRY NERF NERF NERF CRY CRY NERF AMARR NERF NERF DRONES DRONES CRY CRY CRY CRY BLOBS CRY CRY BOB BOB BOB CRY CRY GOONS CRY
11/11/2007: CRY WHINE CRY NERF NERF CRY HELPME HELPME
12/05/2007: CRY CRY CRY WHINE CRY CRY HELPME DIE DIE DIE CRY DIE WHINE WHINE IHATEYOU --- --
As you may of guessed those aren't real entry's - they aren't, but the point is overwhelmingly prevalent
Stop griefing CCP - give them a break, they are doing this to improve the game play - you have nothing to fear unless your computer is filled with inappropriate pictures of preteen children or if your computer houses the server for some ISK farming site.
If you persistant to be a critic, to the Simon's out there - it sounds like you have something to hide or you are too accustomed at complaining. "All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu, the Art of War |
Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.04.13 06:44:00 -
[139]
Want to keep your personal info and browsing habits safe from all prying eyes? Go to Wal-Mart and get one of thier $299 computer bundles to do all your **** surfing and bill paying and only use your leet $2000 gaming rig for well.. Gaming. How hard can it be?
Originally by: Malcanis Too many people confuse "Waah, I didn't get my own way" with 'poor customer service'.
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Evita Achura
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.04.13 07:00:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Souisa ...tin foil hattery...
There is an easy way to protect your privacy from the evil graphics card monsters at CCP. Quit the game give me your stuffs. Also regarding forums. MSN already does that. Google already does that. Yahoo already does that. How is this any different from any other "egregious privacy violation" that takes completly useless data that you are over protective of and makes genuine good use of. When they start sniffing credit card numbers gime a call till then less QQ.
also... Posting in a thread where the dev made the first joke! |
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The Icefox
Gallente Under the Wings of Fury Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.04.13 07:06:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Cadela Fria Edited by: Cadela Fria on 13/04/2008 00:13:12 Heh..great mentality.
Players: "OMG CCP FIX YOUR GAME SO ITS COMPATIBLE WITH ALL OUR DODGY GPU'S!!" CCP: Okay Players: "..WTF?? OMFG!! CCP YOU ARE VIOLATING OUR PRIVACY!! I NEVER SAID YOU COULD HAVE MY GPU DETAILS!!" CCP: ..but... Players: "NO!! YOU ARE EBIL!! YOU WILL SELL MY DETAILS TO FICTIONAL SHAREHOLDERS THAT DONT EXIST AND VARIOUS MARKET AVENUES FOR PROFITZ!!" CCP: "..But you said..." Players: "AMAGAWD WHY DIDNT YOU TELL US!!!" CCP: "We just wanted to make the game bett*is interupted*" Players: "FIX THE GAME AND DONT STEAL MAH COMPUTER INFOz!!" CCP: ...
--- Not only that, but I'm pretty sure it says in the EULA that you give CCP permission to get that information.
EDIT: Like the bright young man quoted below me..good job! So..there you all have it. Now. Hush and come back to reality.
Lol and This. You sir are win. |
MassonA
Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.13 08:52:00 -
[142]
BAWWWWWWWWWWWWW
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Primnproper
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Posted - 2008.04.13 09:34:00 -
[143]
Anyone who really cares about this, just quit, you lame ass, whiney biatches.
You've already given permision for them to do it, its only your gpu information, you already trust them with your credit card, your just making a issue out of it because your idiots.
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Aclyn Seriy
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.13 10:02:00 -
[144]
To everyone in here that seems to think CCP is evil and underhand for recording your GPU/Mem/CPU info to make EVE a better game please quit.
Are you that stupid, that moronic that you can find evil plans in something so completely mundane and normal? Do any of you get out at all? Do you even live in the real world?
What exactly do you lot think they are going to do with such freely available information anyway? Let them take the system information for god sake, then perhaps we wont see anymore threads screaming "OMG EVE KILLED MY GFX CARD" or "OMG TEH MEM LEAK IS KILLIN MA PC" and other things of that ilk. If we as customers provide CCP with as much information about our setups as we can, that will allow CCP to cater for more of us.
Gone will be the days of players finding that the latest patch of EVE didnt work with their GFX cards, gone will be the days of people having to scrounge round the EO forums or some nerdy fansite looking for poor, temporary fixes to their woes. Hell, we dont even have to DO anything to help, no questionnaires, no e-mails, no mess no fuss. Come on people, how often do we ALL moan about something not working right? Now we have an opportunity to do something constructive.
So lets put away our tin-foil hats and lay down our copies of 1984 and join the real world, If you want EVE to be a better place, do your bit. I for one will do everything I can to make EVE better, even if it means sitting down and manually collating and e-mailing this info to CCP myself.
And if it all bothers you THAT much, then do as I suggested at the beginning of my post.......quit. |
Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.13 10:25:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Kerfira on 13/04/2008 10:25:33 You can make all the arguments in the world why we should trust CCP to be the worlds purest rosy-smelling company, but the fact is that some of us don't! I haven't got a beef with them getting info about graphics card. It's a non-topic really since everyone can see the usefulness of that. What I'm worried about is what they'll attach to the list of what they collect NEXT (without telling)! There's all kind of lucrative data on a PC that any marketing department would like their hands on. Browser history... Other installed software... etc. etc. You may trust CCP's marketing department to be goody-goody people not wishing to do any harm, but when all is said and done, they're there to make money, not to ensure your privacy. As long as that is their priority list, they're not trustworthy.
What's the big problem in letting those of us who don't trust them opt out? Hell, even make the option 'On' by default is no problem as long as we get the option.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Francis Verdictio
BGG Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.04.13 11:14:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Francis Verdictio on 13/04/2008 11:39:38
Originally by: Kerfira
You can make all the arguments in the world why we should trust CCP to be the worlds purest rosy-smelling company, but the fact is that some of us don't! I haven't got a beef with them getting info about graphics card. It's a non-topic really since everyone can see the usefulness of that. What I'm worried about is what they'll attach to the list of what they collect NEXT (without telling)! There's all kind of lucrative data on a PC that any marketing department would like their hands on. Browser history... Other installed software... etc. etc. You may trust CCP's marketing department to be goody-goody people not wishing to do any harm, but when all is said and done, they're there to make money, not to ensure your privacy. As long as that is their priority list, they're not trustworthy.
What's the big problem in letting those of us who don't trust them opt out? Hell, even make the option 'On' by default is no problem as long as we get the option.
The question is: Why are you still buying a product you don't trust? It's like buying haircare products from Cher, she's wearing a wig!
First point: CCP has had access to this information from day one of EVE Online.
Second point: They actually told us that they are going to do a global infogather on that info, before doing it.
Now, I don't mind if they do put an 'opt out' on the installer, for PR reasons, but do realize that it is absurd. If you don't trust CCP, why would you trust the 'opt-out' button? Why would you trust them not to datamine your computer right now, since they obviously have the means and opportunity, and you can't trust them to do what they say when they're telling you what they're going to do?
If trust is your issue, then you need to really reconsider using the product. Or, you may also realize that allowing for this thing to happen does not remove the barrier for CCP to data-mine other things from your computer, if in fact they haven't done so already.
But since we obviously can't trust CCP, and all who do are raving fanbois, CCP must already have your pant size, little 'medical' problems, mortgage information, car make, model and color, criminal record, bank account balances and the malaysian sex slave midget you hold in your closet written down somewhere. It's like they're global FBI, Interpol, CIA and Mossad doing cooperative datagathering on all their 400k subscribers (*).
So don't worry and learn to love the bomb. :D
(*) Of course, they don't have info on all of us, just the interesting ones, y'know, the kind that make the devs laugh.
Edit: fixed quotes.
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Luh Windan
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2008.04.13 11:43:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Kerfira
What I'm worried about is what they'll attach to the list of what they collect NEXT (without telling)! There's all kind of lucrative data on a PC that any marketing department would like their hands on. Browser history... Other installed software... etc. etc.
!!!
So you don't trust CCP to not steal info from your computer - what the hell are you doing with anything written by them installed on it then? Do you have any other software installed either? do you have it plugged into the internet. What makes you trust your a) operating system vendor? b) your ISP more than you trust CCP. Especially since a good amount of operating system vendors and ISP's have been shown to collect information (and occasionally stuff they really shouldn't be)
My advice to you - assuming the points you are making are what you actually think - is turn you computer off right now.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.04.13 11:45:00 -
[148]
Edited by: LaVista Vista on 13/04/2008 11:46:21 Are you afraid they are gonna steal information?
You just failed the first test then, didn't you? They have your IP address already
Also, as far as i understand quite a bit of data about the state of the client is sent to the server on auth(). So seriously, what difference is it gonna make, other than the fact more people will be able to run future things more smoothly?
EDIT: Lack of pirate smilies
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2008.04.13 12:02:00 -
[149]
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: Siresa Talesi Exactly. Trust in CCP is tenuous at best at the moment. This is not exactly the sort of action/response that will improve that trust. I don't expect anything inherently wrong here, but I do believe that CCP is pusing their luck.
Why are we trying to cause hysteria? The fact that this is already exposed by your operating system
Yes, what is the big hue and cry, anyway? Your car has a licence plate. Anyone who has half a beef against you can use that to find out who you are, where you work, where you live... and more. Many new cars have your VIN etched right into the window and I know I can walk right up and steal your car uncontested by any cop (or even assisted by a cop) at any time I wish with that information. Your name is typically on your mailbox, too, which already gives everyone enough info to use for their own ends.
All of this is freely available to anyone at any time but 98% of the world won't care that it is or use it if they did.
So, okay, MS delivers my system hardware info to anyone that asks... no way I can effectively block that short of doing some really creepy technical gymnastics. You can block messenger not to spam your IP out there to anyone and everyone, but beyond that you need some heavy duty tech savvy.
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Ryau
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.13 12:03:00 -
[150]
This post has no sense at all. It seems that some people think that CCP is making a conspiration against us, the customer, and the first setep is to know which GPU we have installe on the computer?
Anyway, the fact is that I thought they already knew which GPU I had so...
This is completely legal, dones not have any negative effect on anyone so where is the problem, I am unable to see where is the problem. Just play and stop worrying about nonsenses, you'll have one less problem to worry about.
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.04.13 12:47:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Loyal Servant Your a moron.
I respect the impressive quality of your arguments!
If you have to resort to this one, you haven't got anything arguments of value!
I lol'd at this one. Impressive quality indeed.
Maybe try reading fewer books on programming languages and pick one up on the english language. If you're going to call someone a moron, at the very least don't sound like a moron yourself when you say it. Could have been worse I suppose... at least you spelled moron correctly.
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Neth'Rae
Gallente Neth's Workshop
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Posted - 2008.04.13 13:39:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Loyal Servant Your a moron.
I respect the impressive quality of your arguments!
If you have to resort to this one, you haven't got anything arguments of value!
He simply meant to write "I am your moron.".. because he's your Loyal Servant after all :P
Request signatures at EVE-GFX |
jason hill
Caldari Nightmare Holdings Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.13 13:43:00 -
[153]
hmmm im just waiting for sephra to put in some "one world government ...they are all out to get us " paranoid delusional post.
but one thing does strike me . surely CCP already have this information with regards to the amount of peeps using classic eve then those useing the premium content... or am I still hung over from last night .
destroy everything you touch |
Scilent Enigma
Minmatar Vae Victis Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.13 13:50:00 -
[154]
Ok.. seriously, if you are paranoid about what information that is snatched from your computer by the EVE client, just install http://www.wireshark.org/ and have it running with a "host you.rip.add.res" filter while you log in. That way you get a full detail about all the information packages that are transmitted to and from your computer.
As for the whole data mining turn in CCP, I trust CCP enough to take their word for that they are using it only for better QA and more streamlined graphics content. Though personally I think they could have handled this better (and saved themselves the headache) by making it optional.
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J Valkor
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.04.13 14:16:00 -
[155]
Slippery slop is a logical fallacy. "If you got nothing to hide then what are you worried about?" is another one. The thing is, this information is already being sent to them by your compies, they are just now keeping track of it. Nothing you have "hidden" is being sent to them.
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Armoured C
Gallente Globaltech Industries The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.04.13 14:19:00 -
[156]
there is nothing you can do about it
when you sign up to this game there is a statment in the EULA ... which you obviously didnt read saying infact stating that they can do this
it to make the game better like to see how many people run trinity or what ever so thatthey know for ambulation that they might need a non trinity version or something, how mnay people use DX 10
stop being a fool you scaremongering child
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Bagdon
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.04.13 15:35:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
Actually, most statistical analyses would rate a 10% sample of a total population as a very accurate representation, hardly "useless." This is the way data collection of things like this has been handled for decades, and it worked. Why is such a method now invalid?
No, they would rate a 10% RANDOM sample of a total population as a very accurate representation. A 10% response rate on a survey (which would be in this case) is completely useless.
The reason why movies suck, music on the radio sucks, TV sucks, etc. is because the only people who agree to be sampled are either exhibitionists or idiots (considering the highly intrusive nature of the surveys) which gives you a huge bias in the surveys. Would you discuss your sexual life, disease history and toilet habits for a cookie? No? Neither would I, but that's the sort of people who answer those surveys.
And regarding the topic. At work we collect the User-Agent strings of all our visitors. This allowed us (the developers at the place) to make a web designer shut up and let us use Firefox and IE for development instead of Safari (less than 1%) which he was trying to force us to use because he's a Mac weenie. If CCP can do something like that, I'm all for it. Quality is good, and for quality you need information of where you should allocate your resources.
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Pan Crastus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.04.14 02:05:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Kharadran Sullath
Originally by: Thorradin The EULA already states that CCP may collect data from you:
D. Software Updates CCP may from time to time update or otherwise modify the Software electronically. You hereby grant CCP permission to: (i) extract hardware system profile data from your computer; (ii) extract information from your computer's file directories pertaining to the Game and your ability to access the System; (iii) download to your computer content and Game files and any data related to the operation of the Game. The foregoing applies to any computer from which you log into the System using your Account.
And that's the end of the argument. Everyone who has spent too much time with "The Matrix", "A Scanner Darkly" and "1984" can go away.
If you EULA cheerleaders think that whatever the EULA says is the law and the end of all arguments, perhaps you should tell CCP to put something like "... and the right to delete vital system files from your computer" in the EULA ...
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.14 03:14:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 13/04/2008 10:25:33 You can make all the arguments in the world why we should trust CCP to be the worlds purest rosy-smelling company, but the fact is that some of us don't! I haven't got a beef with them getting info about graphics card. It's a non-topic really since everyone can see the usefulness of that. What I'm worried about is what they'll attach to the list of what they collect NEXT (without telling)! There's all kind of lucrative data on a PC that any marketing department would like their hands on. Browser history... Other installed software... etc. etc. You may trust CCP's marketing department to be goody-goody people not wishing to do any harm, but when all is said and done, they're there to make money, not to ensure your privacy. As long as that is their priority list, they're not trustworthy.
What's the big problem in letting those of us who don't trust them opt out? Hell, even make the option 'On' by default is no problem as long as we get the option.
And if CCP crosses that line you think people wouldn't come across it and there'd be hell to pay like with the Sony Rootkits? I doubt many companies are going to want to be the one to cross the line into mas invasion of its customers.
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Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.14 03:20:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Neth'Rae
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Loyal Servant Your a moron.
I respect the impressive quality of your arguments!
If you have to resort to this one, you haven't got anything arguments of value!
He simply meant to write "I am your moron.".. because he's your Loyal Servant after all :P
You know, nitpicking someone's grammar on an international forum gives you a fairly good chance of coming out the fool if you're bashing someone whose native language isn't english.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.04.14 03:42:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Thorradin
You know, nitpicking someone's grammar on an international forum gives you a fairly good chance of coming out the fool if you're bashing someone whose native language isn't english.
Even i would do this. My native language isn't exactly english, but people who confuse "your" and "you're", or "then" and "than" give me a headache while reading, too.
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Caligulus
Legion of Lost Souls Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.04.14 04:01:00 -
[162]
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: Siresa Talesi Exactly. Trust in CCP is tenuous at best at the moment. This is not exactly the sort of action/response that will improve that trust. I don't expect anything inherently wrong here, but I do believe that CCP is pusing their luck.
Why are we trying to cause hysteria? The fact that this is already exposed by your operating system to allow code to take advantage of this is known by every programmer except perhaps the most hardcore anti-MS techies out there.. and even then they know because they like to bash MS for doing it. If you're not a programmer I already stated this. I honestly don't see any reason in reiterating it other than drawing the attention of those who don't already know that their device information is accessible by whatever they connect to.
Furthermore: You are connecting to our servers. Saying we're bad for wanting to know what is connecting to our servers is like saying that person X is bad because he has caller ID and you're calling him.
Personally, I don't mind that you know what's connecting to your server. It's the fact that your logging and storing personal information for which I cannot personally guarantee the security of that information.
CCP has had database compromises in the past and from an engineering standpoint no system is 100% secure. If it can be made it can be unmade. Fortunately the data that CCP is mining in this instance is of little use but it's the principle of the matter. CCP should fully disclose the information they are "storing" from our systems and do it in such a manor as it can't be tracked to an individual user.
If CCP wishes to take this situation lightly then why the **** should anyone trust them with their CC information? Lets see some policy consistency. ------------------------------------------------- **** You're out of your mind!
**** Well that's between me and my mind. |
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari Stickler inc
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Posted - 2008.04.14 04:07:00 -
[163]
Quote: CCP should fully disclose the information they are "storing" from our systems and do it in such a manor as it can't be tracked to an individual user.
Here's a better idea. Lock your system down properly. But to be honest, the only way to do that really is to not connect it to the Internet.
But seriously, if there's so much info on your computer you "don't want CCP knowing about" then lock it down. Just don't complain when you can't run 99% of programs anymore.
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Aria Stane
Minmatar Madar Kheyl tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.14 04:50:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Pan Crastus If you EULA cheerleaders think that whatever the EULA says is the law and the end of all arguments, perhaps you should tell CCP to put something like "... and the right to delete vital system files from your computer" in the EULA ...
They do, as does just about every other company that publishes software of any kind whatsoever. In CCP's case...
Originally by: CCP DISCLAIMER OF DAMAGES In no event shall CCP, its affiliates, licensors or suppliers be liable to you or to any third party for any special, indirect, incidental, consequential, punitive or exemplary damages (including without limitation, lost profits or lost data), arising out of or in connection with your Account, the System, Software, Game, Game Content, User Content, EULA, or any other services or materials provided in connection therewith, whether based on warranty, contract, tort or any other legal theory, and whether or not CCP is advised of the possibility of such damages, and even if any stated remedy fails of its essential purpose.
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Kaaze Meriivaas
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Posted - 2008.04.14 05:57:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Aria Stane They do, as does just about every other company that publishes software of any kind whatsoever. In CCP's case...
paging that dude who summed up why indemnity clauses are nonsense (it was something like "you can't indemnify someone for committing an illegal act or causing you harm") the last time this conversation reared its head.
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Jmanis Catharg
Caldari Stickler inc
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Posted - 2008.04.14 06:02:00 -
[166]
Quote:
paging that dude who summed up why indemnity clauses are nonsense (it was something like "you can't indemnify someone for committing an illegal act or causing you harm") the last time this conversation reared its head.
And what's illegal about collecting information which you, the user of your computer, freely offer? If you didn't want people to see it, you'd obviously hide it.
Oh hang on, sorry, I'm familiar with IT support and how totally naive people are when it comes to computers, I'll stop applying logic and go back to my hole,,,
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Kaaze Meriivaas
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Posted - 2008.04.14 06:16:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg And what's illegal about collecting information which you, the user of your computer, freely offer? If you didn't want people to see it, you'd obviously hide it.
Oh hang on, sorry, I'm familiar with IT support and how totally naive people are when it comes to computers, I'll stop applying logic and go back to my hole,,,
while you're in their, google up "consumer privacy" and see if you can follow a link or two. Wikipedia's got a good article on it.
anyway, they're not asking for information, they're taking it, and if it violates local or national law in the jurisdiction of the person who's running the client software, ding ding ding we have a winner. By winner I mean crime. And you can't indemnify a person or a company from any act which would be a crime where you live.
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F'nog
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2008.04.14 06:57:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Kaaze Meriivaas
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg And what's illegal about collecting information which you, the user of your computer, freely offer? If you didn't want people to see it, you'd obviously hide it.
Oh hang on, sorry, I'm familiar with IT support and how totally naive people are when it comes to computers, I'll stop applying logic and go back to my hole,,,
while you're in their, google up "consumer privacy" and see if you can follow a link or two. Wikipedia's got a good article on it.
anyway, they're not asking for information, they're taking it, and if it violates local or national law in the jurisdiction of the person who's running the client software, ding ding ding we have a winner. By winner I mean crime. And you can't indemnify a person or a company from any act which would be a crime where you live.
I'm so happy I wasn't drinking anything when I read this, else I'd need a new screen and keyboard.
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.04.14 09:36:00 -
[169]
It's only possibly illegal if they save your identity together with your graphics card information. If it's a simple statistic that doesn't connect to the individual, there's no way your privacy is being infringed on as you as a person are not part of the collected data.
That CCP is adding means to gather data on how EvE works out on individual computers is a very good idea for quality insurance. They usually only can test out EvE on a limited amount of computers themselves, which may cause some more obscure combinations of hard and software to fail. Now they add a means to include information from a wide variety of computer setups into their QA process, which will allow them to resolve issues that some people have with eve.
If you don't want to assist CCP with their QA, I'm afraid, you'll have to cancel your account(s). -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds
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