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Razzor Death
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
70
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I guess its time to give you guys an official response to what is at hand as I can't bare to watch any man be trolled by Riverini be him friend or foe.
2 weeks ago Bat Country decided with the upcoming elections for the CSM that we would do our part to help Dear Leader with his campaign. A few Bats came up with the glorious idea of showing you guys, the people of highsec that as much as we may play our game differently, that we do in fact care about the same issues and want what is best for this virtual world that we all share by attacking the most notorious botting region and inflicting as much pain and suffering as possible to those that violate the EULA and ruin the economy for us all.
As a token of fairness and good will we also decided to create our own reimbursement program where if we happened to kill someone who was not botting by accident that we would pay to replace their ship. Things in this department have been running very smoothly with 4bill+ so far being paid out to those that swear blind they where 'answering the door' or giving 'CPR to their Grandmother' and whilst there was some delay in payment we are quite happy with how this has been managed.
It was planned that once we had managed to reach 1000 dead botters that the campaign would be announced with stats and pie charts for all to bask in but there was one thing we had not accounted for, the chief propaganda minister and self appointed voice of high sec - Riverini. Despite having sent him mails before his "press release" telling him of our intentions and what our campaign was actually about, he took it upon himself to use this situation and the mixed impressions of the High Sec community to go ahead and send a shock wave through the Market in regards to Caldari Ice.
"No, I havenGÇÖt stocked up on Ice yet; a decision I might regret. WeGÇÖll keep an eye on this one. - Riverini" - heh I'm sure.
I think its safe to say that Riverini has made himself and his crew a very nice tidy profit after the scare that he has created via the use of his popular propaganda and CCP endorsed website Evenews24.com and we can only warn people and market buyers to be very careful when using information from Initiative Alliance's "news site" in the future.
I will say on one last final note, that 800 bots have now been destroyed by at most 15 guys with destroyers in the space of 2 weeks. Think about that when you want to sit there screaming at CCP for an impossible to manage situation. This is a Community and Sandbox game and you should approach such problems with those 2 points in mind.
Anyway High Sec, this has been our gift to you GÖÑ
From Bat Country with love
Vote Mittani for CSM
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Endeavour Starfleet
653
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mitt has been very forthcoming on my questions about incursions while Riverini in my opinion refused to politically defend himself about his involvement in the mothership destroying fleets with stated intentions to harm incursion runners. And instead resulting to childish words.
Therefore while I will never fully trust goons I will say IF you are truly attacking bots you have my thanks. I assume you are gathering data and hitting report bot to give CCP info needed to help to reduce the botting menace?
Botting and RMT remain the true threat to the future viability of EVE and its market.
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Razzor Death
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
70
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
All targets where reported |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
95
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't believe you. |
Endeavour Starfleet
653
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Posted - 2012.02.24 03:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Razzor Death wrote:All targets where reported
Thank you.
Before anyone screams that "report bot" doesn't work. Let me quote myself from another topic.
Quote:How do you know it is not working? Report bot does not automatically ban someone from the game. It takes an investigation to do it. AND it is better to watch and learn to find the signs that the bot is in use and ban everyone reported that matches it than one at a time.
Also you have to consider that bot makers often will "test" to see how well they can hide their bots similar to how cheat makers make use of the insta ban systems to test theirs. To counter this you dont ban in a predictable pattern. You have to force them to consider more than one factor at a time which reduces the bot's effectiveness.
This is how Valves VAC system works. Once it detects cheating it bans at a random time so you cant determine what caused you to be detected with any real accuracy.
So before you say "Report Bot" dosent work consider the real world before you discourage others from using it.
If more people would report the bots CCP would have better data to address the issue with.
And again
Quote:And even better if a deep investigation can reveal how far the chain goes up and do some real big bans. I look forward to the day where for instance a large amount of supercaps are just removed from the game for having majority bot produced mins in them. When they come and cry on the forums a simple GM response of how they removed some bot material from the game will involve laughter that will be heard throughout the EVE universe.
Yet in the meantime. The situation with botting is sadly just not simple. The best thing one can do is report bots. Ignore any alliance or corp rule that says you cant report blue bots. They do not have the right to tell their members to ignore EULA violating activity. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
158
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Keep up the good work in highsec. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
407
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks for the decent and informative post, Razzor Death.
It's not often one gets to read logic and reason in these forums, without the obligatory emo-fits and rages.
I have two friends ingame who were recently hit by your campaign - and subsequently reimbursed as advertised.
Whatever the Goons are, at the very least this campaign has cleaned-up a good portion of the real botters out there.
As for Riverini - the less said about him, the better.
Respect o/
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Valentyn3
49
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thumbs up if true.
I still feel the reasons behind the campaign are less benevolent than advertised but it's nice to see it's not as "scorched earth" as people have painted it. EvE why u no obey Newtonian Physics? |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
309
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
First of all, grats to Khan Farshatok for breaking 2k points score!
Second, Riverini comes way, way late in the news (Feb 16).
I sort of started the whole stuff on Feb 11 and then made it much more visible on GD on Feb 15, 1 day before that blog.
As investor, I have to enter the markets (nitro isotopes in this case) before others do, therefore I try to find out those opportunities as fast as possible and possibly, to help them bloom.
Razzor Death wrote:All targets where reported
I am sure you killed a number of non bots (I kept my own statistics, some of those you popped mined for 2h a day and chatted in local). Did you report them as bots anyway? I see the "reimbursment" thing but if they get banned for something they did not know, it won't help to have some 100M ship back. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Endeavour Starfleet
658
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Posted - 2012.02.24 06:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Valentyn3 wrote:Thumbs up if true.
I still feel the reasons behind the campaign are less benevolent than advertised but it's nice to see it's not as "scorched earth" as people have painted it.
The side stuff is in game stuff the goons usually do. What is important to me is if they have developed a way to detect bots en masse on atleast a semireliable basis and report them. That will have a positive impact on the game for everyone.
Let's be real here. The way that bots operate they can replace losses quickly. It is the data the CCP can use to help identify who and how people are botting that will lead to far more involved being banned.
Botting is a serious and very complicated issue. Remember the best thing we ALL can do is gather data and hit report bot when we are reasonably sure a bot is involved.
And no I am NOT going to ask what steps the Goons take on identifying bots. You have to understand that bot makers are constantly on the hunt for info that can lead them to better hide their bots. |
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Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
412
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Posted - 2012.02.24 07:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:First of all, grats to Khan Farshatok for breaking 2k points score! Second, Riverini comes way, way late in the news (Feb 16). I sort of started the whole stuff on Feb 11 and then made it much more visible on GD on Feb 15, 1 day before that blog. As investor, I have to enter the markets (nitro isotopes in this case) before others do, therefore I try to find out those opportunities as fast as possible and possibly, to help them bloom. Razzor Death wrote:All targets where reported I am sure you killed a number of non bots (I kept my own statistics, some of those you popped mined for 2h a day and chatted in local). Did you report them as bots anyway? I see the "reimbursment" thing but if they get banned for something they did not know, it won't help to have some 100M ship back. They are goons, collateral damage was inevitable. Your gonna have to just trust CCP to investigate the reports before they hit the ban button(and that those 2h a day players weren't botting for 2h a day, tho that would make no sense). Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
2641
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Posted - 2012.02.24 08:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
If only you were able to hit the spam bots too that sit in station 23.5/7 spamming...
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Alara IonStorm
1673
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Posted - 2012.02.24 08:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Chribba wrote:If only you were able to hit the spam bots too that sit in station 23.5/7 spamming... That would take a lot of Tornados to Whelp a Station...
If a Station could be Whelped that is...
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Valentyn3
49
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Posted - 2012.02.24 08:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Valentyn3 wrote:Thumbs up if true.
I still feel the reasons behind the campaign are less benevolent than advertised but it's nice to see it's not as "scorched earth" as people have painted it. The side stuff is in game stuff the goons usually do. What is important to me is if they have developed a way to detect bots en masse on atleast a semireliable basis and report them. That will have a positive impact on the game for everyone. Let's be real here. The way that bots operate they can replace losses quickly. It is the data the CCP can use to help identify who and how people are botting that will lead to far more involved being banned. Botting is a serious and very complicated issue. Remember the best thing we ALL can do is gather data and hit report bot when we are reasonably sure a bot is involved. And no I am NOT going to ask what steps the Goons take on identifying bots. You have to understand that bot makers are constantly on the hunt for info that can lead them to better hide their bots.
I'm sure it's what ever most GM's in mmos look for such as repetitive actions, long activity with no break ect. People can program bots to have more randomness or take long breaks like a player would but the more human they act, the more that eats into time they could be farming money.
I'd say a great indicator is no reaction to being targeted when the guy next to you just got popped. EvE why u no obey Newtonian Physics? |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
310
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Posted - 2012.02.24 08:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Valentyn3 wrote: I'd say a great indicator is no reaction to being targeted when the guy next to you just got popped.
This only applies to minerals mining. Ice miners have like 12 to 18 minutes long cycles, you could pop half a belt before they alt tab back to check what's going on.
Edit: actually, while a real pilot will not stay forever watching paint ehm roids dry, a bot can be programmed to always check for flagged corp / ship kinds in local / arriving at belt and warp out. So the bot escapes, the real player does not.
Besides the "23/7" and the calling pilots with patterns (i.e. Joe01, Joe02 etc) I don't see any way to discern between a bot and an human.
Only basic way is to pop them and see if the pod keeps going from belt to station and vice versa, but I have noticed some bots now detect the pop and don't warp the pod to belt. They stay just outside of the station. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
The Groundskeeper
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
49
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Posted - 2012.02.24 09:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
The people conducting this campaign against ice-botting have lived in these systems for over a fortnight, now. They know the lil' dudes who are just logging in for an hour or two, and who warp off when scanned, and they know the ones who log in four minutes after downtime and mine nonstop through the timezones with convos turned off, even if you use a 100mn MWD cruiser to bump them 70km from the belt. |
Landrae
Sinners Among Saints
298
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Posted - 2012.02.24 09:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Razzor Death wrote: Things in this department have been running very smoothly with 4bill+ imaginary isk so far being paid out
Fixed
My cow collapsed, and now there's a human to animal infection outbreak among illegal immigrants. |
Razzor Death
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
87
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Posted - 2012.02.24 10:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thorn Galen wrote:
I have two friends ingame who were recently hit by your campaign - and subsequently reimbursed as advertised.
Landrae wrote:Razzor Death wrote: Things in this department have been running very smoothly with 4bill+ imaginary isk so far being paid out
Fixed
Is that you Riv ? |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
492
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Posted - 2012.02.24 10:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
01000100 01000101 01000001 01010100 01001000 00100000 01010100 01001111 00100000 01010100 01001000 01000101 00100000 01001101 01000001 01000011 01001000 01001001 01001110 01000101 01010011 http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Midge Mo'yb
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
87
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Posted - 2012.02.24 10:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
Landrae wrote:Razzor Death wrote: Things in this department have been running very smoothly with 4bill+ imaginary isk so far being paid out
Fixed
As Finance Minister and Second in Command of Bat Country, i beg to differ as i personally have proccessed all payments that the Dispute panel have agreed were executed in error.
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Eolithic WithaTwist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.02.24 10:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Midge Mo'yb wrote:
As Finance Minister and Second in Command of Bat Country, i beg to differ as i personally have proccessed all payments that the Dispute panel have agreed were executed in error.
Goon propaganda at its finest. |
Razzor Death
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
90
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Posted - 2012.02.24 10:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
Fun fact: 121billion has not been sold on the RMT market this fortnight.
While this maybe just a splash in the pond imagine what 4 corps of 15 guys could do in a month.
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Cebraio
Starfire Oasis
34
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Posted - 2012.02.24 10:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
Midge Mo'yb wrote: As Finance Minister and Second in Command of Bat Country, i beg to differ as i personally have proccessed all payments that the Dispute panel have agreed were executed in error.
Unfortunately for you, nobody believes in goon's words - except, of course, the guys you successfully scam.
Anyway, I am willing to believe in Razzor Death's words (for once) and say: Nice work |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
85
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Posted - 2012.02.24 10:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
Any work done to remove or explode BOTs is good work worth doing.
So grats and thanks to Bat Country for all the BOTs you exploded.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Caldari Acolyte
Perkone Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2012.02.24 12:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
Since the Huge Spring offensive against Deklien is aproaching, the Ice interdiction won't last much longer, Mittani will need all his sheep to defend it. |
Razzor Death
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
96
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Posted - 2012.02.24 12:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
Caldari Acolyte wrote:Since the Huge Spring offensive against Deklien is aproaching, the Ice interdiction won't last much longer, Mittani will need all his sheep to defend it.
Outstanding |
Jonah Gravenstein
47
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Posted - 2012.02.24 13:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nice work Bat Country, bots are the lowest of the low and it's nice to see that you're reimbursing those that you pop in error. War hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Midge Mo'yb
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
88
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Posted - 2012.02.24 16:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Nice work Bat Country, bots are the lowest of the low and it's nice to see that you're reimbursing those that you pop in error.
Our Pleasure. |
The Sardukar
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.02.24 16:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
Chribba wrote:If only you were able to hit the spam bots too that sit in station 23.5/7 spamming...
Not to mention the ratting bots running around Deklein and surrounding regions |
Razzor Death
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
97
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Posted - 2012.02.24 16:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
The Sardukar wrote:Chribba wrote:If only you were able to hit the spam bots too that sit in station 23.5/7 spamming... Not to mention the ratting bots running around Deklein and surrounding regions
heh let me guess, you read that on Evenew24 the site most famous for publishing a full blown guide on botting.
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