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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.12 19:45:00 -
[1]
For information related to our previous Bond, please take a look here.
I'll address the details of this and then tackle the "why" right after.
First off, this is a Bond which will yield 7% + principle at the date of maturity. The maturity date will be 60 days from when this Bond is completely sold out. No money will be taken from any accounts untill the "start" of this Bond.
You must have an EBANK account to purchase this Bond, all Bonds will be held within EBANK (Bonds are not tradeable within EBANK at this time). This is essentially a virtualized Bond, however, it will show up on your accounts page if you buy into it. The money must be in your "sweep" account!It's a pain in the butt otherwise.
The interest rate per 30 days is 3.5% and 7% for 60 days. This is a shorter term Bond intended to inject cash into EBANK for the purposes of meeting loan demand. The return is slightly less than our first Bond, but the term of the Bond is shorter as well, which lessens the amount of time your cash is tied up within the Bond. We do encourage Bond purchases in excess of 1 billion obviously.
Now then....why are we doing this?
EBANK has experienced a rather unexpected and heavy demand for loans. These loans (for the most part) are good quality loans that EBANK is unable to properly provide at this time due to two factors:
1) Liquidity concerns. We recently experienced a "run on the bank" scenario which ended with us seeing a total of 8 billion isk in withdraws within a single day. Normally this is how much we handle in a week. As a result, we have shifted to a more conservative percent of funds held in cash. To date; we have always met a withdraw request within 24 hours...the goal is to keep it that way. This does however limit our ability to provide loans as we end up with less cash set aside for that.
2) Recent stagnation in fund growth through deposits. This is partially linked to #1.
EBANK's profits are as healthy as ever...but our growth is not quite what we'd like it to be. We're offering these Bonds as a way to accelerate the process of injecting capital in order for us to take advantage of these quality loan opportunities.
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Won Swunglow
Caldari Dead By Dawn
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Posted - 2008.02.12 20:30:00 -
[2]
I would like to reserve 1 bond
Isk will be deposited within 48hrs
Regards
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.02.12 21:24:00 -
[3]
I will take 2 bonds.
Will there be an announcement prior to the start? (Would like to have a day or two to get the isk deposited.)
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.12 21:28:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Shar Tegral I will take 2 bonds.
Will there be an announcement prior to the start? (Would like to have a day or two to get the isk deposited.)
Once we reach the amount I will both update the OP and reply to the thread as a notification. Start date and maturity date will be posted in both cases.
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Tachypnea
Blue Moon Rising Blood and Steel
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Posted - 2008.02.12 21:44:00 -
[5]
Out of curiosity, why is the buy in for the bond so high?
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.12 21:56:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tachypnea Out of curiosity, why is the buy in for the bond so high?
Honestly? Administrative purposes.
Until the Bond system is completed we have to process these manually. I'll speak on this a bit since I really can't keep this in the dark much longer now that we're doing more of these...
Bonds are EBANK's solution to CD's. The big goal here is to reduce the volatility of EBANK's liquid assets (cash) by finding ways to motivate people to keep their money "in the system". Now, this of course leads to fixed investments where money is "locked up" for a period of time...hence the natural CD (Certificate of Deposit) solution. However, what happens if you REALLY need your isk out of it?
The answer to this is a way to sell Bonds to other people...that way the money stays in EBANK (it's only shifting between "owners") and reduces cash fund volatility. This still allows people to "get their money" out of the Bond (keeping EBANK's focus on fund availability for the customer in mind) without taking the money out of the "system" as it were.
Now; where is this going? A Bond Exchange. Well, to be specific, a Stock Exchange that trades Bonds to begin with. This is part of a larger system that I'm building for EBANK but unfortunately it's not yet finished enough to begin automate Bond purchases....hence....we do it manually.
Again, for now, Bonds are a manual exercise. In the future, it should be automated.
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Banni Vinda
The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2008.02.12 21:57:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Banni Vinda on 12/02/2008 21:57:48
Originally by: Tachypnea Out of curiosity, why is the buy in for the bond so high?
Since these are done in a slightly manual method, through EBank's website, it would help to cut down the logisitics of having to deal with numerous small investors. Also, the interest rate is only slightly higher than an EBank Savings account (approx 3% per month). Those accounts have a 500mil cap. So, really the buy-in level only affects those who fall between the 500m savings maximum, and the 1bil bond buy-in minimum. (No offence is intended by calling anyone with less than 1bil in their accounts 'small' btw. It's all relative after all.)
If there's enough interest in people grouping together who might not be able to otherwise afford a bond on their own, I'd offer to handle that on your behalf. However if I wasn't feeling generous, I might take a small fee for doing so, which means the return is little better than you'd get in a maxed-out savings account.
Edit to add: What Hexxx said above!
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Tachypnea
Blue Moon Rising Blood and Steel
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Posted - 2008.02.12 22:06:00 -
[8]
Ah thank you for that information. I will look into these savings accounts, as I always seem to arrive after IPOs are sold out, or don't have enough isk to invest in the big ones.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.12 22:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tachypnea Ah thank you for that information. I will look into these savings accounts, as I always seem to arrive after IPOs are sold out, or don't have enough isk to invest in the big ones.
EBANK understands that investor demand for investments typically exceeds supply of investments. To this end we extended our overall balance cap to 250 billion. (and are currently allowing new accounts to have both checking and savings the moment they are created)
Issueing Bonds such as these and exploring other alternatives serve to further satisfy this demand.
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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B00YAH
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.02.13 00:40:00 -
[10]
ebank starting 2 smell like a scam there asking 4 2 much isk in a very short space of time TBH
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Red Metal
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Posted - 2008.02.13 00:52:00 -
[11]
I also would like to reserve 1 bond .
I just opened an EBANK account , but I don't think it's active yet . When does the 1 billion need to be in the 'sweep' account ?
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.02.13 01:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: B00YAH ebank starting 2 smell like a scam there asking 4 2 much isk in a very short space of time TBH
Then don't invest in them. I put the chance of them scamming at less than 1%, if you think it's higher then you shouldn't invest, plain and simple.
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Ricdic
Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz
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Posted - 2008.02.13 01:20:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Red Metal I also would like to reserve 1 bond .
I just opened an EBANK account , but I don't think it's active yet . When does the 1 billion need to be in the 'sweep' account ?
Asap please
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE! |
Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.02.13 01:33:00 -
[14]
Originally by: B00YAH ebank starting 2 smell like a scam there asking 4 2 much isk in a very short space of time TBH
You're an idiot.
Why are you an idiot? Because several of the individuals running Ebank could each sell out 100B bonds and have between them easily 500B so why the **** would they ruin their reputations over this small amount? The answer is, they wouldn't and anyone that thinks they would is an idiot. There collective reputations are worth easily 10x this amount and even if they were scammers they aren't stupid enough to waste it on this trifling amount or even the some total of funds in Ebank, not that they have access to all of them as a significant portion is on loan, hence the issuance of this bond. If the people running Ebank were to run off with all the money presently available in it, it would be one of, if not the worst scams on an ISK/hour basis.
BTW, at least have balls to troll with your main Ufl.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Estate
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Posted - 2008.02.13 01:38:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Originally by: B00YAH ebank starting 2 smell like a scam there asking 4 2 much isk in a very short space of time TBH
You're an idiot.
As a courtesy and a general practice in MD, it would benefit all of us to politely respond to obvious trolls or poorly stated critiques or to simply ignore them outright. Aggressive responses only cause the reactions meant to be created, or to cause an offensive situation where there was none before.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.13 02:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Red Metal I also would like to reserve 1 bond .
I just opened an EBANK account , but I don't think it's active yet . When does the 1 billion need to be in the 'sweep' account ?
Your account is generally created within 60 minutes of your deposit or less, this is because we are limited to one API query per hour. Remember, only deposit funds with "EBANK Ricdic".
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Iminyour Markets
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Posted - 2008.02.13 04:09:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
You're an idiot.
Why are you an idiot? Because several of the individuals running Ebank could each sell out 100B bonds and have between them easily 500B so why the **** would they ruin their reputations over this small amount? The answer is, they wouldn't and anyone that thinks they would is an idiot. There collective reputations are worth easily 10x this amount and even if they were scammers they aren't stupid enough to waste it on this trifling amount or even the sum-total of funds in Ebank, not that they have access to all of them as a significant portion is on loan, hence the issuance of this bond. If the people running Ebank were to run off with all the money presently available in it, it would be one of, if not the worst scams on an ISK/hour basis.
BTW, at least have the balls to troll with your main Ufl.
Your post has been reported. Personal attacks on the forums are not welcome. |
GeraldRatner
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Posted - 2008.02.13 04:13:00 -
[18]
There doesnt seem to be the usual rush to throw money at this.
Is Ebank having a 'Ratner' moment?
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GeraldRatner
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Posted - 2008.02.13 04:16:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 13/02/2008 01:40:12
Originally by: B00YAH ebank starting 2 smell like a scam there asking 4 2 much isk in a very short space of time TBH
You're an idiot.
Why are you an idiot? Because several of the individuals running Ebank could each sell out 100B bonds and have between them easily 500B so why the **** would they ruin their reputations over this small amount? The answer is, they wouldn't and anyone that thinks they would is an idiot. There collective reputations are worth easily 10x this amount and even if they were scammers they aren't stupid enough to waste it on this trifling amount or even the sum-total of funds in Ebank, not that they have access to all of them as a significant portion is on loan, hence the issuance of this bond. If the people running Ebank were to run off with all the money presently available in it, it would be one of, if not the worst scams on an ISK/hour basis.
BTW, at least have the balls to troll with your main Ufl.
I really wish they would run of with all the money just to prove what an illtempered illmannered overbearing ****** you are
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Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2008.02.13 04:41:00 -
[20]
Let's keep things on-topic and stop with the trolling and name calling. Invest or get out. If you don't like the offering, move along.
---------------------------------------------- Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way. |
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GeraldRatner
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Posted - 2008.02.13 05:05:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Let's keep things on-topic and stop with the trolling and name calling. Invest or get out. If you don't like the offering, move along.
Ricdics recent behaviour and how it has impacted on ebanks operations and reputation is entirely on topic.
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Raskor
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Posted - 2008.02.13 05:22:00 -
[22]
Originally by: GeraldRatner There doesnt seem to be the usual rush to throw money at this.
Is Ebank having a 'Ratner' moment?
Having just started dabbling in the trading arena with about 500-600m in play, I just can't get excited about 3-4% for a month. While I have the free isk to purchase a few of these bonds, I don't have enough to consider myself well diversified if doing so. That's just too large a cut of my assets in one pocket for my taste, no matter what the general perception of their risk is.
Plus there is the event I suspect you refer to, and while I don't personally believe a scam will arise of it, it does create turmoil and that (in my opinion) alters the risk / reward equation to where 3-4% just isn't enough, especially for such a large amount. Maybe in a few weeks after this all blows over and nothing bad comes of it, I will change my mind and put money back into my account.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.13 05:33:00 -
[23]
Originally by: GeraldRatner
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Let's keep things on-topic and stop with the trolling and name calling. Invest or get out. If you don't like the offering, move along.
Ricdics recent behaviour and how it has impacted on ebanks operations and reputation is entirely on topic.
There are other threads focusing on this, if you feel it's that important and isn't being addressed elsewhere, feel free to start your own.
This thread is for the sale and discussion of this paticular Bond.
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.13 05:42:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Raskor
Originally by: GeraldRatner There doesnt seem to be the usual rush to throw money at this.
Is Ebank having a 'Ratner' moment?
Having just started dabbling in the trading arena with about 500-600m in play, I just can't get excited about 3-4% for a month. While I have the free isk to purchase a few of these bonds, I don't have enough to consider myself well diversified if doing so. That's just too large a cut of my assets in one pocket for my taste, no matter what the general perception of their risk is.
Plus there is the event I suspect you refer to, and while I don't personally believe a scam will arise of it, it does create turmoil and that (in my opinion) alters the risk / reward equation to where 3-4% just isn't enough, especially for such a large amount. Maybe in a few weeks after this all blows over and nothing bad comes of it, I will change my mind and put money back into my account.
I wish you luck.
EBANK has a variety of options for investors, Bonds are simply one option for people who have more than 500 million to put into a Savings account. It is an option that may not appeal to everyone. If we were in a bigger hurry to attract funds we'd offer a higher rate...but we aren't, so we didn't. As I've mentioned before, EBANK does not intend to compete with IPO's in terms of returns, which is why the rates are always low comparitively. In terms of turmoil....I've addressed this about as bluntly as I can; we've had no problems meeting our liquidity levels or even getting paticularly low on cash. We do have the ability to shift around liquidity for moments such as this, just as we did when the Trinity patch was rolled out (we had somewhere around 40% of funds in cash...just to prepare for massive withdraws). None the less, if you really feel that way there's not much else I can say about it.
Additionally there are many, many other Stock/Bond options and of course, FuryBank. You can also try EGSEx or RESX where the total sum of all market capitalization is on the order of 3.2 trillion isk. Plenty of investments.
Or you could just trade on the markets....that's always an option too.
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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GeraldRatner
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Posted - 2008.02.13 05:54:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Hexxx
Originally by: GeraldRatner
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Let's keep things on-topic and stop with the trolling and name calling. Invest or get out. If you don't like the offering, move along.
Ricdics recent behaviour and how it has impacted on ebanks operations and reputation is entirely on topic.
There are other threads focusing on this, if you feel it's that important and isn't being addressed elsewhere, feel free to start your own.
This thread is for the sale and discussion of this paticular Bond.
This is what you said in your op :-
"1) Liquidity concerns. We recently experienced a "run on the bank" scenario which ended with us seeing a total of 8 billion isk in withdraws within a single day. Normally this is how much we handle in a week. As a result, we have shifted to a more conservative percent of funds held in cash. To date; we have always met a withdraw request within 24 hours...the goal is to keep it that way. This does however limit our ability to provide loans as we end up with less cash set aside for that.
2) Recent stagnation in fund growth through deposits. This is partially linked to #1."
Basically what you are saying is that Ricdics recent behaviour has caused a run on your bank and a reduction in your deposits. You are also saying that this has caused liquidity ratios to be adversely affected and that this bond is being issued to address those issues. Anybody thinking of investing in this bond should be FULLY aware of ALL the issues surrounding it.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.13 06:01:00 -
[26]
Originally by: GeraldRatner
This is what you said in your op :-
"1) Liquidity concerns. We recently experienced a "run on the bank" scenario which ended with us seeing a total of 8 billion isk in withdraws within a single day. Normally this is how much we handle in a week. As a result, we have shifted to a more conservative percent of funds held in cash. To date; we have always met a withdraw request within 24 hours...the goal is to keep it that way. This does however limit our ability to provide loans as we end up with less cash set aside for that.
2) Recent stagnation in fund growth through deposits. This is partially linked to #1."
Basically what you are saying is that Ricdics recent behaviour has caused a run on your bank and a reduction in your deposits. You are also saying that this has caused liquidity ratios to be adversely affected and that this bond is being issued to address those issues. Anybody thinking of investing in this bond should be FULLY aware of ALL the issues surrounding it.
Yes, that's what I said. I addressed the reasons why we're issueing a Bond and you copied them (excellent work by the way) in your most recent reply. Is there some kind of additional point you're making here?
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2008.02.13 06:04:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Amarr Citizen 155 on 13/02/2008 06:05:01
Originally by: GeraldRatner
This is what you said in your op :-
"1) Liquidity concerns. We recently experienced a "run on the bank" scenario which ended with us seeing a total of 8 billion isk in withdraws within a single day. Normally this is how much we handle in a week. As a result, we have shifted to a more conservative percent of funds held in cash. To date; we have always met a withdraw request within 24 hours...the goal is to keep it that way. This does however limit our ability to provide loans as we end up with less cash set aside for that.
2) Recent stagnation in fund growth through deposits. This is partially linked to #1."
Basically what you are saying is that Ricdics recent behaviour has caused a run on your bank and a reduction in your deposits. You are also saying that this has caused liquidity ratios to be adversely affected and that this bond is being issued to address those issues. Anybody thinking of investing in this bond should be FULLY aware of ALL the issues surrounding it.
Anybody thinking of investing in this bond ALREADY KNOWS the situations that have happened recently and knows both sides of the issues not just the one side that you and others like you want to keep referencing.. Stop trolling and post with your main. Someone please clean up this thread and get rid of the trolls. Invest or gtfo.
---------------------------------------------- Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way. |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD Solidus Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.13 06:09:00 -
[28]
hummmm can't put my finger on it but my eyebrow hasn't come down from the previous issue, yet.
such a demand for loans is indeed unexpected. the general census seems to be, that there's too much money flying around - which is why you can sweep these expansions so easily and at such cheap interest rates. of course, this has nothing to do with each other but my gut just can't bring both tendancies together.
probably my paranoia playing tricks on me again, but this feeling is creeping up my neck that you issue a bond here, another larger one there...
but yeah - i'm no good with investing in (abstract) monetary services - i need to give money for stuff :D - happy to be proven wrong - putting the gist back into logistics |
GeraldRatner
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Posted - 2008.02.13 06:14:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Edited by: Amarr Citizen 155 on 13/02/2008 06:05:01
Originally by: GeraldRatner
This is what you said in your op :-
"1) Liquidity concerns. We recently experienced a "run on the bank" scenario which ended with us seeing a total of 8 billion isk in withdraws within a single day. Normally this is how much we handle in a week. As a result, we have shifted to a more conservative percent of funds held in cash. To date; we have always met a withdraw request within 24 hours...the goal is to keep it that way. This does however limit our ability to provide loans as we end up with less cash set aside for that.
2) Recent stagnation in fund growth through deposits. This is partially linked to #1."
Basically what you are saying is that Ricdics recent behaviour has caused a run on your bank and a reduction in your deposits. You are also saying that this has caused liquidity ratios to be adversely affected and that this bond is being issued to address those issues. Anybody thinking of investing in this bond should be FULLY aware of ALL the issues surrounding it.
Anybody thinking of investing in this bond ALREADY KNOWS the situations that have happened recently and knows both sides of the issues not just the one side that you and others like you want to keep referencing.. Stop trolling and post with your main. Someone please clean up this thread and get rid of the trolls. Invest or gtfo.
I suggest YOU stop trolling MY posts. Anybody NEW to this forum wouldnt know anything about the issues surrounding this bond.
This is your attitude towards investors :- "Invest or gtfo" I think many will take note of that and do exactly that i.e. gtfo
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.13 06:20:00 -
[30]
Originally by: GeraldRatner Anybody NEW to this forum wouldnt know anything about the issues surrounding this bond.
This is your attitude towards investors :- "Invest or gtfo" I think many will take note of that and do exactly that i.e. gtfo
Perhaps you should start your very own thread on the issue to properly warn all the new investors out there? It'd be hard to give a proper warning if it's buried in the pages of this Bond thread.
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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