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Taz Devlin
Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.11.07 11:34:00 -
[1]
Originally by: disgruntled Eve player This is a decision that could only be made by a corporation that honestly doesn't give a damn.
No seriously, that's what CCP thinks is important to this game
The above quote was taken from these here forums(names removed to protect the innocent) And I got curious, how many here share this players sentiments?
Very basic question: Do you think CCP cares about Eve and it's community?
A) Yes they do.
B) Nope, only about where to get the next beer from.
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Delta3000
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.11.07 11:42:00 -
[2]
I think its fair to say that in the past their ideals were more about customer satisfaction than profits, but that is slowly shifting towards a business ideology. It's a natural progression I think and they can't be faulted for it, there becomes more than just the customer's satisfaction at stake - investors, staff, expansion, etc.
I do think that they care more about their customer's than other MMO developers, but they're not the most caring. It's a crown I think they once held but lost it around the time the white wolf merger happened.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2007.11.07 11:43:00 -
[3]
A
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Verone
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Posted - 2007.11.07 11:44:00 -
[4]
A
If they didn't give a toss, why would they bother setting up fanfests or flying equipment and people half way across the world to run an alliance tournament every 6 months?
>>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
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Brutus Rotter
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.11.07 11:47:00 -
[5]
A
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Stakhanov
The Good Fellas
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Posted - 2007.11.07 11:47:00 -
[6]
It's not so simple. Well , the ewar & sensor script changes are simply bad but I think CCP are in a rush to complete Trinity before xmas. Also , the interaction between the community and the devs must have dropped in quality (outside the fanfest ?) because of anonymity , and less than ideal "feedback" on the forums.
However , I am surprised that none of the many playing devs (those out there on TQ hunting people all day) vetoed inadequate changes implemented on sisi. Even if they can't , you'd think they have enough influence to be heard.
Originally by: F'nog One does not simply log into Jita.
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Xtreem
Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.07 11:48:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Verone A
If they didn't give a toss, why would they bother setting up fanfests or flying equipment and people half way across the world to run an alliance tournament every 6 months?
money?
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Saint Luka
The Illuminati. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.07 11:51:00 -
[8]
Community? No.
Getting paid? Human nature isn't it? -
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2007.11.07 11:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Xtreem money?
Is why they care about us.
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Corewin
Gallente Deathwatch Inc. Black-Out
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Posted - 2007.11.07 11:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Xtreem
Originally by: Verone A
If they didn't give a toss, why would they bother setting up fanfests or flying equipment and people half way across the world to run an alliance tournament every 6 months?
money?
You are correct good sir!
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Mia Neffzen
The Black Ops
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Posted - 2007.11.07 11:56:00 -
[11]
A
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Usshari
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.11.07 11:57:00 -
[12]
A.
Money is obviosuly a factor since it isnt a non profit organisation (can i get a DUH?), but I firmly believe CCP is very involved with the game and its community is a passionate way.
***
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Karen Serasia
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Posted - 2007.11.07 11:59:00 -
[13]
A to a certain extent as it's what keeps us playing thus paying (untill they start sending Wangler over to jab needle full of dopamine into our spinal cords hourly.)
But really, they probably don't care nearly as much as people like to think since at the end of the day there are probably gonna be 5 more people/alts to replace you after your gone.
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:00:00 -
[14]
I think it comes down to communication of which CCP can be very good with at times, but when you have all these impending changes that majority of eve's player base have not asked for and are unhappy about plus with the CCP have never given a real sense of where this is all going, you have to wonder sometimes.
At the end of the day, its the player base that what makes eve what it is today, without that EVE would be no more. Having said that, I think where entitled to some say of what direction we would like to play eve.
At the end of the day its the long term players who have spent months training for a ship only to find that they have a few weeks/days before major changes to the ship, that really feel the effects. Since i'm sure most would not train for a ship and fittings for it months on end if they knew huge changes where forth coming.
I sure most people here have friends who are playing eve that will make there decision of if there going to stay or not, when Rev3 comes out.
Risky move IMO, why change something that don't need to be nerfed that the majority of eve players use and are happy about.
Hopefully it won't end up like bombs , I mean when is the last time you saw a bomb on the KM from a ship that went pop.
Would it be correct to say lots of people are unhappy with the direction Eve looks like its heading .. only need to read this forum to find the answer to that.
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Gunzoid
Caldari Militaris Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:00:00 -
[15]
I think they care about the community, but just a certain portion. Why would they make all the changes to prevent solo PVP? Because they wanted to make it more fun for carebears and less fun for PVPers. They would get less of the "OMG I got killed, I'm quitting eve!" and more of the "This game is easy and fun!", hence increasing profits. But heh, you can't satisfy everybody at once, you just gotta make sure you satisfy the bigger crowd.
Thats my personal opinion anyway.
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Missy X
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:01:00 -
[16]
The question is not applicable. Caring about money and caring about the community in the context of an MMORPG are not mutually exclusive, and are in fact deeply inter-related.
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ShardowRhino
Caldari Species 5618 R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:03:00 -
[17]
Go play a game run by sony that isnt everquest. Then come tell me that CCP isnt a billion times better then SOE. Soe only cared about everquest games. a huge amount of planetside's fan base believe that soe used the $$$ from our subs to fund projects for the eq players. we got in game ads to boost "development" but got nothing for a year but eq got even ***er horses and hotter elf chicks to beat off to. lots of expansions for eq, nothing for ps, kinda makes you think.
AS for CCP balancing things, chances are its needed nerfs in addition to adjustments needed for future content. if you nerf something in game now, a future counter or t3model wont have to be game breaking in order to be "good".
CCP doesnt want this to be "Carrier-Online" good for them. they are thinking about the future of their product. those greedy filthy *****s!! how dare they try fixing things now before its deemed unfixable in the future!!!! SHAME O N YOU CCP!!!
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Hanno Mir
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:03:00 -
[18]
Think about what your saying, CCP is a business and like all businesses they want (indeed, need) money, that being said they wouldn't do anything to sabotage themselves. Therefore I believe customer satisfaction is their top priority.
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Reverend Revelator
Elite Storm Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:06:00 -
[19]
First of all, there exists no 'CCP' to care for us. What there is, is a bunch of employees working for a company called CCP.
The primary motivation for these employees is to get a paycheck every month. This is the primary motivation of all employees all over the world, and I fail to see why ppl working for CCP would be different. Also, remember that these employees get paid the same no matter what happens, as long as the company doesn't go bankrupt. If EVE expands to 100 million subs, and gets awarded the Nobel Peace Price, there might be a small celebratory party with some alcohol and maybe, juuuust maybe, a T-shirt that says 'The Shareholders Of My Company Made Trillions, And All I Got Was This Stupid T-Shirt'.
Secondary motivation is to NOT get called into the bosses office and have to explain what they are doing, or not doing. If the nerf decisions come from the boss, and most likely they do, then arguing about it is just going to keep you in his office for longer, might **** him off and give him the excuse to give you an even ****tier assignment than what you already got, and is anyways highly unlikely to produce a positive result for you personally.
Tertiary motivation is to not **** off your fellow cow-orkers so much they retaliate by sabotaging you, or making your life a living utter hell, in other words to go along to get along.
As for caring, I mean really caring, about customers? The same customers who flame the everlasting **** out of them every single time there is any kind of change, or when there is no change, in fact flame them 24/7 year round for no discernible reason? Yeah right...
-- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love -- |
Verone
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:08:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Xtreem
Originally by: Verone A
If they didn't give a toss, why would they bother setting up fanfests or flying equipment and people half way across the world to run an alliance tournament every 6 months?
money?
You obviously don't even have the slightest grasp of how much time, and cost go into producing an alliance tournament, or the fanfest.
>>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:09:00 -
[21]
A
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Stakhanov
The Good Fellas
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:16:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Reverend Revelator As for caring, I mean really caring, about customers? The same customers who flame the everlasting **** out of them every single time there is any kind of change, or when there is no change, in fact flame them 24/7 year round for no discernible reason? Yeah right...
QFT. I really don't blame them for not replying to the mass of threads that tries to summon them. Still , that doesn't excuse an illogical / unclear stance on game changes.
I don't think they despise us , though. The visible obnoxious posters are a minority , they know about it.
Originally by: F'nog One does not simply log into Jita.
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Jherek Cornelian
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:17:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Brutus Rotter Edited by: Brutus Rotter on 07/11/2007 12:03:47
CCP do a lot for lager developers and publishers.
I couldn't resist :)
Oh and A.
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Val Vympel
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:18:00 -
[24]
A.
It will be a sad day when/if they no longer do. I like the genre of this game,this however is not what keeps me paying and playing.
I play because I like the skill based system and the fact that CCP has not become a bloated greed monster....yet
Unmitigated greed and boardroom politics obliterated SWG. If that business approach could deep six a game with the name recognition of "Star Wars"...EVE wouldn't stand a chance if it adopted the same mentality...regardless of the MMO niche it has carved out.
Just my opinion
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000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:18:00 -
[25]
LOL!!!
I love EVE, but if u think ccp is in this business for the friendly community, then ur all sadly mistaken.
Like someone said, i get the feeling there shifting more and more to the 'making money' side.
Anyways i think we should only start to worry when there starting to hire outside people who have never played nor ever will play the game. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:20:00 -
[26]
Edited by: SoftRevolution on 07/11/2007 12:23:29 On a pragmatic level they have to "care" (or do a very good impression of) because that is part and parcel of making their game a success.
It's an online game. It has a persistent world. Much of the job of organising the gameworld falls to players. Also it's a niche product.
"Caring" about the community is very much in the job description.
I'd almost go as far as to say a decent community and a good relationship with the community is something you'd consider an "asset" for a brand like EVE.
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Mag's
MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:22:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Mag''s on 07/11/2007 12:22:29
Originally by: Taz Devlin
Originally by: disgruntled Eve player This is a decision that could only be made by a corporation that honestly doesn't give a damn.
No seriously, that's what CCP thinks is important to this game
The above quote was taken from these here forums(names removed to protect the innocent) And I got curious, how many here share this players sentiments?
Very basic question: Do you think CCP cares about Eve and it's community?
A) Yes they do.
B) Nope, only about where to get the next beer from.
Lo bud.
I would say A. But as the player base has grown, so has CCP, and the gap of understanding between both is now becoming an issue.
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Xtreem
Originally by: Verone A and other postings.....
money?
You obviously don't even have the slightest grasp of how much time, and cost go into producing an alliance tournament, or the fanfest.
You're naive to think, that money doesn't factor in what they do, tbh.
Edit: bad posting from me.
Mag's
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Cipher7
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:24:00 -
[28]
They have alot invested in Eve-Online and they want it to be as fun and playable as humanly possible. This is someone's nest-egg and retirement fund, and the trust fund they're going to pass on to their children.
They don't care about your pretty eyes.
When you go to your job at McDonalds, do you give a schit about the guy who just walked in and ordered a Big Mac?
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Drykor
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:25:00 -
[29]
Bit of a poor way of doing a poll, do you honestly think anyone is gonna vote B and make himself look like a ****? Of course CCP doesn't only care about beer, but money and care for community aren't mutually exclusive, in fact quite the opposite.
I do think that they are getting slightly tired of Eve though, it's not the same enthusiasm as when they started and you can't really expect that. I just hope enough remains to still continue in the right direction.
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Cygnus Zhada
Amarr The Wild Hunt
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:29:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 07/11/2007 12:31:07 Some thoughts;
- when a company gets bigger you HAVE to switch to a more business-like model - why on earth would they want/have to listen to the whining/ranting/no-clue a$$hats who haven't got the slightest ideas of actual facts, but are only interested in short term gains. - CCP are thinking long-term with the game in mind, (most) players think short term with their own personal benefits in mind. So yeah, CCP ain't gonna listen much. - when people whine about something that happened to them most of the times they will 'leave out' (ok, lie) some quite important details, but everyone will bandwagon onto the whine anyway.
The BEST thing for any MMO developer is to NEVER listen to their customers. They can take hints from them and perhaps accept some testing data if it's done by someone who's objective (which almost never happens) but apart from that and because of the above points CCP should not listen to us, the playerbase.
Does that give them a freebee on underperfoming on their service department? no, ofcourse not. It shouldn't take a week to get a petition answered but then I guess 85% of the petitions are something like "Hi, I'm stupid and lost my ship because of it, can you please give it back to me". That really doesn't help their queue.
Imo (and it's been stated before), do away with the ship reimbursement alltogether. That will free up a lot of GM/petition resources.
Welcome to EVE Online: Press 1 for Caldari, PVE Online Press 2 for Minmatar, PVP Online Press 3 for Gallente, PWN Online Press 4 for Amarr, Lulz Online |
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Corewin
Gallente Deathwatch Inc. Black-Out
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:32:00 -
[31]
If the player base is ok with a mediocre game its going to continue to get a mediocre developer involvement.
Not that I am saying Eve is such a game, but you should never loose sight of the fact you are paying for this game monthly. In doing so you are paying for the continuous growth of said game. Always compare the amount of involvement/time and money you have put into this, to the updates in content and how often they are applied.
Every 3 months you are essentially buying a brand new game at $45, give or take depending on your own currency.
The real question over whether CCP cares about its customers is if you are truly getting a new game's worth out of 3 months of a game you've been playing for X amount of months or years.
Additional content is what makes an old game seem new, not changing aspects to the current items within it. (those should be a given)
I am not paying to read the story of Eve, I am paying to see the fantastic ideas, we see developers praise, become reality in Eve. "soon tm" should not be a means of timing these expansion, but rather on the customers needs for new content in a nessicary time span.
This is how CCP will have to "care" about its community.
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Jakus Cemendur
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:04:00 -
[32]
Well personally i'd put a complete overhaul of the graphics engine for free as a good sign relating to CCP, given the fact other companies would probably have released it as "EVE 2"
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Alloures
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:06:00 -
[33]
The armchair CEO is even better than the armchair psychologist.
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Corewin
Gallente Deathwatch Inc. Black-Out
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:12:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Jakus Cemendur Well personally i'd put a complete overhaul of the graphics engine for free as a good sign relating to CCP, given the fact other companies would probably have released it as "EVE 2"
You DID pay for it (back to that whole monthly subcription fee), but yes a graphic overhaul is a good sign. However, it has been brought to CCPs attention for quite some time now that a graphics overhaul was in extreme order. Some may even argue that it is "late" in terms with how long the game has been out.
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BLAIYNE
Goats With Aqualungs Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:14:00 -
[35]
The answer has to be both A and B.
They have to make money, otherwise they couldn't afford to continue paying their staff and keeping the game going.
But they also care about the community and what the players actually think far more than any other game I've played.
Sure things don't always work out the way they plan them or the way some people want them to, but that's life. At least they care enough to want to keep trying. If they didn't, they'd just leave the basic game unchanged, charge us for upgrades/add-ons, and concentrate on maximising the numbers of new players.
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Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:15:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Verone A
If they didn't give a toss, why would they bother setting up fanfests or flying equipment and people half way across the world to run an alliance tournament every 6 months?
$ $ $ $ $ -- Awwwww Diddums! Did I wardec your highsec alt recently or something? |
Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:16:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Verone
You obviously don't even have the slightest grasp of how much time, and cost go into producing an alliance tournament, or the fanfest.
You obviously don't have the slightest grasp of "speculate to accumulate". Or have we both "obviously" got a case of the "Mother of all assumptions"? -- Awwwww Diddums! Did I wardec your highsec alt recently or something? |
Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:19:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Taz Devlin
Very basic question: Do you think CCP cares about Eve and it's community?
A) Yes they do.
B) Nope, only about where to get the next beer from.
A) They hope I have money and continue to have money. B) They care about my money becoming their money.
You can't please all the people all of the time, but you can please enough people enough of the time to be able to afford your vices. -- Awwwww Diddums! Did I wardec your highsec alt recently or something? |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:23:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/11/2007 13:26:24
Originally by: Verone A
If they didn't give a toss, why would they bother setting up fanfests or flying equipment and people half way across the world to run an alliance tournament every 6 months?
Because its good PR. Because it reignites interest in players growing bored of the game. Beacuse WOW and other games do it. Why do soft drink firms sponosr the olympic games, why do cigarette firms sponsor F1, why is the local wing at the hospital sponsored by a fast food firm.
Dont be naive.
A pretty bland question from the OP.
Of course the real answer is both a and b.
SKUNK
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Jakus Cemendur
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:27:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Jakus Cemendur on 07/11/2007 13:27:12
Quote: You DID pay for it (back to that whole monthly subcription fee), but yes a graphic overhaul is a good sign. However, it has been brought to CCPs attention for quite some time now that a graphics overhaul was in extreme order. Some may even argue that it is "late" in terms with how long the game has been out.
True i did pay for it in my monthly fee, but other MMOs would have charged on top of that for a complete graphics engine overhaul, or even for expansions with CCP releases for free(not counting monthly fee). Plus, with all the expansions, graphics overhaul and general bug fixing and running the servers, things would take a while, i mean do people expect them to constantly churn out tons of new content when their resources will be divided between different things.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:35:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Jakus Cemendur Edited by: Jakus Cemendur on 07/11/2007 13:27:12
Quote: You DID pay for it (back to that whole monthly subcription fee), but yes a graphic overhaul is a good sign. However, it has been brought to CCPs attention for quite some time now that a graphics overhaul was in extreme order. Some may even argue that it is "late" in terms with how long the game has been out.
True i did pay for it in my monthly fee, but other MMOs would have charged on top of that for a complete graphics engine overhaul, or even for expansions with CCP releases for free(not counting monthly fee). Plus, with all the expansions, graphics overhaul and general bug fixing and running the servers, things would take a while, i mean do people expect them to constantly churn out tons of new content when their resources will be divided between different things.
If CCP dared to try to charge for a content overview, they would lose a lot of their player base.
They are running a fine line with the players (what with various scandals in the past, overactive use of the nerf bat, unimaginative fresh content, and a general malaise and lack of direction in the gmae). Its only the addictivness of the game, in game ties, and the feeling of 'waste' that recyling your main character that keeps a lot of people playing.
This leaves them kind of stuck with the business model they have now.
SKUNK
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Torco
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:35:00 -
[42]
the point is, that good customer care is key for a successful game. With so many big and good mmorpgs around the customer just choses the best all around package. Look at SOE they suffer from their actions they did in the past. They are the "bad" mmorpg company and they will never recover from it.
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Haks'he Lirky
Dominion Imperium
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:37:00 -
[43]
A
I dont think any mmo company is as involved with the community as ccp is.
I sincerely think that the situation we have today, where people express their overly dramatic sentiments towards nerf/improvements, is because of that involvement from ccp.
They want to control what ccp does, not influence, and they do this with negative feedback and by trying to induce guilt by throwing around large negative "truths" about their feelings.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Hooligans Of War Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:46:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Le Skunk I note people who make the trip to the fan fest, and are courted by CCP ( a in joke with a Dev here, a sneaky preview there, an invite to EVE tv in between) are normaly more rabidly supportive of CCP then the normal player. Seems you lose your sense of perspective.
Or people that didn't have time and/or money to go there are bitter as they feel left out.
I do admit, after a few round table discussions with devs they do become a bit more than an anonymous name with a [CCP] tag.
As for the OP, of course they want to make money but at the same time they are damn passionate about the game.
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:53:00 -
[45]
A)
But ofcourse every mmo company is a business like any other. That should not surprise anyone. But having played a lot of mmo's i have never seen a game where the devs have been so active in the community as in EVE.
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Cailais
Amarr W A R
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:57:00 -
[46]
A.
Some players just don't understand the huge ammount of effort and the vast complexity of Eve Online and they come here to whinge about not getting instant gratification 100% of the time. Its a sad indication of how selfish and self obsessed modern society has become.
C.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
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Jakus Cemendur
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:59:00 -
[47]
Quote: If CCP dared to try to charge for a content overview, they would lose a lot of their player base.
They are running a fine line with the players (what with various scandals in the past, overactive use of the nerf bat, unimaginative fresh content, and a general malaise and lack of direction in the gmae). Its only the addictivness of the game, in game ties, and the feeling of 'waste' that recyling your main character that keeps a lot of people playing.
This leaves them kind of stuck with the business model they have now.
SKUNK
Wait, so despite the fact that other companies would charge a seperate fee for things like Revelations or any of the other expansions that added in loads of new ships, tech 2, POS and all that jazz, if CCP did it it would be wrong?
Now i'm not saying they should, far from it as i really like CCPs policy of releasing loads of new content for free(excluding the monthly fee of course).
As for nerfs, i just view them as the devs attempting to balance the game and change things they didn't want to happen. And i speak as a person who's flying a Myrmidon with a drone bay full of Ogre IIs.
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spurious signal
Caldari Brainiacs
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Posted - 2007.11.07 14:02:00 -
[48]
A, obviously.
People only think B when they're angry about something. MMORPGs tend to generate strong feelings from their players and EVE is no exception. When we're blinded by strong emotions our brains don't work logically and we think and post stupid things.
Of course you missed out "C: EVE's devs care deeply but since they farmed some of their best talent off to run the (failing) China server the remaining team have lost their direction a bit."
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Leya Marcsson
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Posted - 2007.11.07 14:31:00 -
[49]
Of course they do care about the community. Not only do they love Eve, but we also pay their bills.
I have yet to see a MMORPG with better community-communication and -management than EvE have. Name me one!
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.07 14:38:00 -
[50]
Ah, this old chestnut.
CCP are a business, and have to pay the bills, otherwise no amount of caring about the community will make any difference.
I'm sure CCP are still passionate about their product, and the community - but I guess older players might see it differently to how it was "back in the day".
The old gits (and I include myself), especially those from beta and early release, were playing Eve because they shared a passion and a vision with CCP .. even if the actual product was, um, unpolished.
As Eve has evolved it has gained subscribers on the actual merits of the product, and that is great, but it changes to some extent the outlook of the community. As it grows the community moves away more from the dreamers and more in to the hands of the consumers. I think CCP have done a great job of moving with that change, and whilst I yearn for the "good old days", and miss many aspects of the old community, I can honestly say that, with a few notable exceptions, the Eve community is still something to be very proud of.
Sure maybe CCP have traded a little vision for growth, but if their vision does not evolve with the community both will stagnate, and then Eve dies.
I am actually quite excited about the next patch, because there is a lot there that harks back to an older vision of Eve - but with bells an whistles.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.11.07 14:55:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Jakus Cemendur
Quote: If CCP dared to try to charge for a content overview, they would lose a lot of their player base.
They are running a fine line with the players (what with various scandals in the past, overactive use of the nerf bat, unimaginative fresh content, and a general malaise and lack of direction in the gmae). Its only the addictivness of the game, in game ties, and the feeling of 'waste' that recyling your main character that keeps a lot of people playing.
This leaves them kind of stuck with the business model they have now.
SKUNK
Wait, so despite the fact that other companies would charge a seperate fee for things like Revelations or any of the other expansions that added in loads of new ships, tech 2, POS and all that jazz, if CCP did it it would be wrong?
Now i'm not saying they should, far from it as i really like CCPs policy of releasing loads of new content for free(excluding the monthly fee of course).
As for nerfs, i just view them as the devs attempting to balance the game and change things they didn't want to happen. And i speak as a person who's flying a Myrmidon with a drone bay full of Ogre IIs.
What I meant was, having established their business model (free content updates) for them to successfully flip to a pay per update system would require an overwhelmingly happy player base. This, even the most optimistic and blinkered fan will agree, they do not have.
That said, As I have said before, its an adrenalin pumping, excellant game 5% of the time. And a pretty good experience for the rest of it, and its incredibly cheap (in cash) compared to many alternative hobbys.
SKUNK
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Eriv Kendri
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.07 14:56:00 -
[52]
They care. Nothing this good ever got built because it provided a pay check. -------
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Val Vympel
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Posted - 2007.11.07 14:58:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Alloures The armchair CEO is even better than the armchair psychologist.
(Val Vympel raises hand)
Armchair
Please correct me if I'm wrong...but...this comment seems to suggest that nobody here speaks from practical business experience.
For the first 38 years of my life I worked for my family business. My father groomed me to take over the business, and at the age of 18 due to my fathers ill health I did so. I was the sole owner/operator of this business with a top payroll of 129 employees for nearly 20 years. Due to a degenerative condition that has left me deaf,I was forced to sell the business. I sold the business with the strict legal stipulation that the business be operated under the same principals it has operated under for 3 generations. My family name and reputation are attached to that product and as long as I'm alive I wanted to insure that a group of eager young college business graduates(all theory,ZERO experience) don't go and try to reinvent the wheel and drag my family name through the mud.
Allot of PERSONAL sacrifice went into making that business profitable. When a management team either because of apathy or greed loses sight of that,the business will decline. Unless you operate a monopoly,you simply can't operate with indifference towards your customer base if you wish to stay in business long. No brainer right?...Well you can't tell that by the way many businesses are operated today.
As for the armchair....well technically you are correct,I'm in one right now. And proven business tactics,morals and ethics have allowed me to sit in this armchair playing EVE for as long as I like. As I'm semi-retired,hurt for nothing,and most important of all debt free
CCP would do well not to forget where they came from,what has made them successful and to whom they owe it all to: Themselves,their employees and their customers...in equal portion.
Sorry..for the longwind...feeling energetic this morning.
Cheers
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TheEndofTheWorld
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:08:00 -
[54]
Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 07/11/2007 15:08:15
Originally by: Taz Devlin
A) Yes they do.
B) Nope, only about where to get the next beer from.
B - some of the obvious stuff that affects only a small % of the player base has still not been fixed.
let me give you an example:
Bug with mission standings, the one where you only got a small % of the standings - fixed in a few days
Logging off at gates when you jump into a small/solo hostile(s) to save your ships - still here after 2+ years
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Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:22:00 -
[55]
I think they care, but they're so out of touch with most of their players that they're no longer capable of making sensible, even handed decisions. And they've completely forgotten what it's like to start off fresh with no skills. -- Support fixing the EVE UI | Suggest Jita fixes
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Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:25:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Corewin
Originally by: Jakus Cemendur Well personally i'd put a complete overhaul of the graphics engine for free as a good sign relating to CCP, given the fact other companies would probably have released it as "EVE 2"
You DID pay for it (back to that whole monthly subcription fee), but yes a graphic overhaul is a good sign. However, it has been brought to CCPs attention for quite some time now that a graphics overhaul was in extreme order. Some may even argue that it is "late" in terms with how long the game has been out.
The current graphics engine isn't that bad. What desperately needs an overhaul is the GUI. Sure the current graphics engine looks slightly dated, but gaming co-workers are regularly impressed with in game screenshots of what it can already do. Several posters have specifically mentioned people that quit because the GUI was so awful. I think "idiot right click menus" was a phrase used. -- Support fixing the EVE UI | Suggest Jita fixes
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:26:00 -
[57]
A ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
Jakus Cemendur
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:26:00 -
[58]
Quote: What I meant was, having established their business model (free content updates) for them to successfully flip to a pay per update system would require an overwhelmingly happy player base. This, even the most optimistic and blinkered fan will agree, they do not have.
That said, As I have said before, its an adrenalin pumping, excellant game 5% of the time. And a pretty good experience for the rest of it, and its incredibly cheap (in cash) compared to many alternative hobbys.
SKUNK
Ah right gotcha, misunderstood what you were trying to say.
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Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:34:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Eriv Kendri They care. Nothing this good ever got built because it provided a pay check.
Wow, that is one huge freaking lie. -- Support fixing the EVE UI | Suggest Jita fixes
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Kastar
Memphis Technologies Intergalactic Brotherhood
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:34:00 -
[60]
Sorry but this is a very stupid question.
Off course they care, it's their product. Not caring would lead to sloppiness and negligence, resulting in a worse product and subsequently less subscribers.
-----------------------------------------------
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Great Artista
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:35:00 -
[61]
A.
Was this a trick question? _______
Do yuo liek stabbers? ◕◡◕
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Ormen Tuttle
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:37:00 -
[62]
If you attended fanfest, or watched the Saturday events on EVE TV, then you know the answer to this question--CCP really cares about the game and the community. Yes, the make difficult decisions and we sometimes disagree with them, but this doesn't mean they don't care. They are doing the best job that can, and frankly, what they have accomplished so far is so much better than any other MMO on the market that we really have no room to doubt their commitment to the game and the community.
Ormen Tuttle, Fanboy at Large
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Kastar
Memphis Technologies Intergalactic Brotherhood
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:38:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Gaven Blands
Originally by: Verone A
If they didn't give a toss, why would they bother setting up fanfests or flying equipment and people half way across the world to run an alliance tournament every 6 months?
$ $ $ $ $
$$$$ are not the point. That's just how the economy works. If you can provide a nice fest as they did, do stuff for the community and gain some money in the process, why not ?
Don't blame them, blame capitalism. If they do all the above it just shows they go all the way. One does not do that without "caring". -----------------------------------------------
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Shanur
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:38:00 -
[64]
A. CCP clearly doesn't just want a quick lump sum of cash NOW (the EA Games approach), but likes money the next 5 years too (IOW, they are in it for the long haul). Keeping a product profitable beyond a few months requires keeping your customers happy so they have to care. |
Kastar
Memphis Technologies Intergalactic Brotherhood
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:47:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Jakus Cemendur Edited by: Jakus Cemendur on 07/11/2007 13:27:12
Quote: You DID pay for it (back to that whole monthly subcription fee), but yes a graphic overhaul is a good sign. However, it has been brought to CCPs attention for quite some time now that a graphics overhaul was in extreme order. Some may even argue that it is "late" in terms with how long the game has been out.
True i did pay for it in my monthly fee, but other MMOs would have charged on top of that for a complete graphics engine overhaul, or even for expansions with CCP releases for free(not counting monthly fee). Plus, with all the expansions, graphics overhaul and general bug fixing and running the servers, things would take a while, i mean do people expect them to constantly churn out tons of new content when their resources will be divided between different things.
If CCP dared to try to charge for a content overview, they would lose a lot of their player base.
They are running a fine line with the players (what with various scandals in the past, overactive use of the nerf bat, unimaginative fresh content, and a general malaise and lack of direction in the gmae). Its only the addictivness of the game, in game ties, and the feeling of 'waste' that recyling your main character that keeps a lot of people playing.
This leaves them kind of stuck with the business model they have now.
SKUNK
That also describes each and every consumer product ever brought into existence. You can only go as far with imagination as the means allow, and what that concerns there are very few niches left to explore in Eve. They do a good work to keep putting stuff in, though I think everybode is waiting for a real groundbreaking development that rocks the fundaments, like eg an overall empire war that can be brought upon with Factional Warfare.
Time for an alien invasion anyone ?
Second, I wish people would stop complaining about the nerfbat. Honestly has it ever turned out bad ? And don't come whine to me... I'm Amarr Some things were fun (cruise kestrels and dual mwd ruptures) but honestly to God you can't be thinking they were good for the game. Same for Privateers... While it seemed a fun initiative for someone like me, watching from the distance rarely leaving lowsec, it was a bit over the top.
Same goes for every nerf I can remember... in the end nothing has turned out badly. The only thing I'm starting to get annoyed the crap by is the lack of space... With peak concurrent users nearing 40K Eve should really be twice the size it is now. It needs to be vast, take an insane amount of time to go somewhere. -----------------------------------------------
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Weeka
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2007.11.07 16:06:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Taz Devlin
A) Yes they do.
B) Nope, only about where to get the next beer from.
The next beer (quite literally) comes from A .. the thing is .. I think ccps members are in fact part of the community they care about.. try finding that somewhere else.
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Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
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Posted - 2007.11.07 16:21:00 -
[67]
I think ccp cares about its income.
->My Vids<- |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.07 16:53:00 -
[68]
number of people whining < number of people not
all the math I need to prove CCP knows more than some of the asshat forum members
yeah A
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 04/11/2007 21:34:44 *EDIT* You know what, Tortun has this one under control...*
*Basks in the chaos of this thread |
Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2007.11.07 17:01:00 -
[69]
The people who make decisions at CCP could get more money elsewhere if all they cared about was money. ----- "Why can't you just be friends?" -- Oveur |
Asestorian
Domination.
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Posted - 2007.11.07 17:25:00 -
[70]
The original Dev's went several months without any pay at all when their funding ran out so they could complete the game. That's commitment there.
Ultimately they do need the money though. Of course they want to keep the ISK rolling in, otherwise they'd be living on the streets. Not to mention we wouldn't have a server to play on. But that said they do obviously care greatly about their game, and about the community that plays it. They have a 10 year plan or more, just because it provides cool stuff that they want to play.
---
MOZO
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Neon Genesis
The Landed Gentry
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Posted - 2007.11.07 17:50:00 -
[71]
A
In my opinion, they care. However they arn't perfect and the lack of forum moderation at the moment is a huge letdown. I'm dissapointed.
_
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Eshezo
Old Buggers
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Posted - 2007.11.07 17:54:00 -
[72]
A -- without a doubt
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MITSUK0
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Posted - 2007.11.07 17:56:00 -
[73]
Edited by: MITSUK0 on 07/11/2007 17:56:40 The "it's cool to be emo about the MMO you play" craze is hitting eve.
Unless I just didnt notice it before, this **** is rampant over on WoW.
/o\
Edit: oh and also - Yes of course they care about the game, it makes them money, if they didnt care about it then they would have sold out/wow cloned a long time ago.
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Dave White
Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2007.11.07 17:56:00 -
[74]
A+.
Originally by: GM Tacgnol Oveur descended from the heavens (also known as the second floor) and beat us all with his nerfbat. |
Razor Jaxx
Minmatar Cosmic Odyssey
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Posted - 2007.11.07 18:13:00 -
[75]
It's all about balance.
CCP certainly cares about the community, but it's a business nonetheless, with bills to pay and paychecks to sign, so they won't jeopardize their revenue for the good of this or that individual within the community.
So it's both A & B.
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Shar'Tuk TheHated
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Posted - 2007.11.07 18:23:00 -
[76]
A
DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale!
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES! |
agent apple
Applied Eugenics Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.11.07 18:24:00 -
[77]
They have like all successful businesses gone from a single shop, first name basis local store to Walmart. Doesn't mean they don't care anymore, only that they have more peoples opinions to care for. Whether this is a good or bad thing is another question entirely.
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Nathomos
Minmatar An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.11.07 18:24:00 -
[78]
A.
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Malarki X
Caldari Ad Astra Vexillum Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.07 18:37:00 -
[79]
A
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Mephistophilus
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Posted - 2007.11.07 19:06:00 -
[80]
B for sure
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Blackend Sky
The Paratwa Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.11.07 19:40:00 -
[81]
Would say A: If they would not care,none would buy their products any more...
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dursers
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Posted - 2007.11.07 19:49:00 -
[82]
being one who's recently been boned by GMs for no reason, Im starting to lean towards B.
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Galk
Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said
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Posted - 2007.11.07 20:10:00 -
[83]
Enough with the fanfest please.....
Holding a fanfest that only a tiny percentage of the playerbase can afford to reach each and every year is an insult to the word.
While personaly i could afford to reach it.... iv'e no intention of spending +100 a pounds a night on a hotel for 3 or 4 nights... paying the extreme costs involved in stoping in iceland food and beverage wise... not to mention the costs of airfair compared to flying elsewhere within europe.
Something over the region of 1000 pounds for 4 days away for just a fan gathering is just insane.. you have to be an eve nut to even consider it imho.... you can get a week or two away in the sun for that...
Do CCP's original reasons for holding it only in iceland still hold true?
That being that the small operation they had going were virtualy chained to their desks constantly involved in game development.
From everything they say and do now, that wouldn't appear to be the case....
So why no uk/american.. central european fanfest... where the fans actualy are.. and where they can gather.... hell going/traveling to america would be cheaper than iceland from here in the uk:/
That would be truely pushing it out for the fans if you're using that one as an example of saying that they do. ______
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Xtreem
Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.08 18:35:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Xtreem
Originally by: Verone A
If they didn't give a toss, why would they bother setting up fanfests or flying equipment and people half way across the world to run an alliance tournament every 6 months?
money?
You obviously don't even have the slightest grasp of how much time, and cost go into producing an alliance tournament, or the fanfest.
lots of effort, cost of fan fest ticket, bits sold ie mugs other tokens of eve, kick back from accom, happy players = more money its all the same thing mate.
you think i work so hard at work, planning all kinds of things so i can think wow i done all that, or the ú300 i get at the end of the day? you think they would do the fanfest if they made no money or good promotion out it? give me a break.
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sapanda1102222
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Posted - 2007.11.08 18:44:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Taz Devlin
Originally by: disgruntled Eve player This is a decision that could only be made by a corporation that honestly doesn't give a damn.
No seriously, that's what CCP thinks is important to this game
The above quote was taken from these here forums(names removed to protect the innocent) And I got curious, how many here share this players sentiments?
Very basic question: Do you think CCP cares about Eve and it's community?
A) Yes they do.
B) Nope, only about where to get the next beer from.
No they don't. The GMs take action before taking a look at the facts and when the facts are given to them and highlighted they ignore them thinking the problem will go away.
Mistakes only go away if you fix them CCP. Not if you ignore them and pretend they don't exist.
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Siresa Talesi
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Posted - 2007.11.08 21:20:00 -
[86]
A because of B
Originally by: Val Vympel
Originally by: Alloures The armchair CEO is even better than the armchair psychologist.
(Val Vympel raises hand)
Armchair
Please correct me if I'm wrong...but...this comment seems to suggest that nobody here speaks from practical business experience.
For the first 38 years of my life I worked for my family business. My father groomed me to take over the business, and at the age of 18 due to my fathers ill health I did so. I was the sole owner/operator of this business with a top payroll of 129 employees for nearly 20 years. Due to a degenerative condition that has left me deaf,I was forced to sell the business. I sold the business with the strict legal stipulation that the business be operated under the same principals it has operated under for 3 generations. My family name and reputation are attached to that product and as long as I'm alive I wanted to insure that a group of eager young college business graduates(all theory,ZERO experience) don't go and try to reinvent the wheel and drag my family name through the mud.
Allot of PERSONAL sacrifice went into making that business profitable. When a management team either because of apathy or greed loses sight of that,the business will decline. Unless you operate a monopoly,you simply can't operate with indifference towards your customer base if you wish to stay in business long. No brainer right?...Well you can't tell that by the way many businesses are operated today.
As for the armchair....well technically you are correct,I'm in one right now. And proven business tactics,morals and ethics have allowed me to sit in this armchair playing EVE for as long as I like. As I'm semi-retired,hurt for nothing,and most important of all debt free
CCP would do well not to forget where they came from,what has made them successful and to whom they owe it all to: Themselves,their employees and their customers...in equal portion.
Sorry..for the longwind...feeling energetic this morning.
Cheers
Well said Sir.
Originally by: Asestorian The original Dev's went several months without any pay at all when their funding ran out so they could complete the game. That's commitment there.
That's par for the course in the computer game making world. If they give up and don't complete the game, then they never get paid for their work. There's the real commitment for you.
In my experience, the amount of caring an MMO company has for its subscribers can be measured by the level of communication. I'm not commenting one way or the other on CCP's communication levels, just ponder the thought for a few minutes.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.11.08 21:52:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Siresa Talesi
Originally by: Asestorian The original Dev's went several months without any pay at all when their funding ran out so they could complete the game. That's commitment there.
That's par for the course in the computer game making world. If they give up and don't complete the game, then they never get paid for their work. There's the real commitment for you.
In my experience, the amount of caring an MMO company has for its subscribers can be measured by the level of communication. I'm not commenting one way or the other on CCP's communication levels, just ponder the thought for a few minutes.
Its par for the course for any new 'entreuperneurial' business what so ever really.
Also I wonder how 'the power of two' fits into peoples fanboism.
A deliberate and calculated attempt to wring more cash out of the players by getting them dependant on alt using/ starting up more alts, then getting stuck with with them. Kind of like the dealer - offering 'free' samples of his new drug outside the school gates.
Also how does the overpriced commercialized garbage they flog in the EVE shop factor into devs caring about us. 50 quid for a poster? Whats the markup on that I wonder.
SKUNK
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