Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Cosmosa Magellan
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:20:00 -
[1]
I've been playing EVE for a moderate amount of time now, and I must say that it its quite endearing, if not a little dense. The gameplay is excellent and supported by some great fiction, especially the EVE Chronicles (my hat is off to CCP Abraxas). But there is a minor detail that I've seen cropped up in several places that I must object to - the temperature of space (and the transmission of said temperature) is not realistically portrayed.
1. Density of Space Space, despite what we normally perceive, is not what we would calle a ôperfect vacuumö û devoid of any and all matter. In fact, space is teeming with both atmospheric particles (within the vicinity of any planets with an atmosphere) and solar radiation that creates friction, drag, and density of itÆs own(1). Granted, none of these factors are large enough to affect the orbits of celestial objects (in fact, it seems celestial objects in EVE are immune to any outside influence!) or especially large ships but they are a force that should be considered regardless, especially in fiction where gameplay and technical issues are not a significant consideration.
2. Cosmic Background Radiation In addition, all space has some inherent background radiation. I understand that the area of space occupied by New Eden is both different in location than the Milky Way galaxy and several thousand years in the future, but as far as we know Background Radiation is present everywhere in the universe (with the exception of a startling ôholeö approximately 20 billion lightyears from our present location û but that is a different story(2)).
I believe that for the sake of realism these two factors should be taken into account in the Prime Fiction of the EVE universe, as it creates a more realistic and interesting grounding (and perhaps in the future it can offer new gameplay elements û who knows?). This leads me to the primary topic of this post û the temperature of space is not accurately portrayed in EVE.
1. Temperature There is a common misconception among the general public that space isàwellàcold. Extremely cold, in fact, certainly cold enough to kill any human exposed to it. But this is, in fact, not at all the case within the confines of any solar system(3)! Solar radiation and particles in and around planetary atmospheres affect the temperature of space, on average space within the boundaries of a solar system like ours is approximately 8 degrees Celcius, not comfortable but certainly not lethal by any means! I imagine that farther away from the center of a solar system the temperature would decrease, but to find a lethally-cold temperature one would have to be several hundred AUÆs away from the system center, and I have not seen a solar system so large in EVE (though I have not yet left empire space). It is safe to say that this is an inaccuracy that should be connected.
|
Cosmosa Magellan
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:21:00 -
[2]
2. Transfer of Heat Another common misconception is that transmission of temperature and heat in space works on the same scale that it does here on planet Earth (Or Amarr, or New Caldari, what have you). Here on earth, at a pressure of 14 PSI (sea level) we feel the effects of heat and cold quite quickly, from a breeze, campfire, or furnace. However, this is largly a factor of density, and how quickly we ôfeelö a temperature change is dependant onf the density of our environment(4). In space, since there is so little density of particles, being shoved out of an airlock would not create the gruesome and dramatic death as portrayed in EVEÆs Prime fiction(5). In fact, unless one sweats profusely (the sweat would very quickly evaporate, creating an impressive chill) the most likely cause of death for someone exposed to the vacuum of space would most likely die of suffocation or radiation poisoning. Unfortunately in several instances it is implied or explicitly stated(5) that those exposed to the vacuum of space die in all kinds of exotic ways, including having their skin boil, freezing, or having their heads explode. This is in no way accurate!
I hope that ths matter is corrected or at least acknowledged in the near future. Thankyou for your time, CCP!
My References:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum#Outer_space 2. Unfortunately I was unable to find a source for this but an article exists on Slashdot.org 3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature#Temperature_of_the_vacuum 4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature#Second-law_definition_of_temperature 5. http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/jul01-02.asp
|
Death Kill
Caldari direkte
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:21:00 -
[3]
Nice try
Call to arms!!! |
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:21:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Tarminic on 15/10/2007 17:21:31 Mysteriously takes first in an epic thread.
EDIT: Damnit. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:27:00 -
[5]
The boiling blood thing comes from the thought that sudden exposure to the lack of pressure in space would cause the dissolved gases in your blood to expand rapidly (essentially a tech2 variant of the bends).
Which would blow.
|
Sylvia Lafayette
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:27:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Sylvia Lafayette on 15/10/2007 17:27:54
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan 2. Transfer of Heat Another common misconception is that transmission of temperature and heat in space works on the same scale that it does here on planet Earth (Or Amarr, or New Caldari, what have you). Here on earth, at a pressure of 14 PSI (sea level) we feel the effects of heat and cold quite quickly, from a breeze, campfire, or furnace. However, this is largly a factor of density, and how quickly we ôfeelö a temperature change is dependant onf the density of our environment(4). In space, since there is so little density of particles, being shoved out of an airlock would not create the gruesome and dramatic death as portrayed in EVEÆs Prime fiction(5). In fact, unless one sweats profusely (the sweat would very quickly evaporate, creating an impressive chill) the most likely cause of death for someone exposed to the vacuum of space would most likely die of suffocation or radiation poisoning. Unfortunately in several instances it is implied or explicitly stated(5) that those exposed to the vacuum of space die in all kinds of exotic ways, including having their skin boil, freezing, or having their heads explode. This is in no way accurate!
I hope that ths matter is corrected or at least acknowledged in the near future. Thankyou for your time, CCP!
My References:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum#Outer_space 2. Unfortunately I was unable to find a source for this but an article exists on Slashdot.org 3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature#Temperature_of_the_vacuum 4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature#Second-law_definition_of_temperature 5. http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/jul01-02.asp
this just makes me think NASA shoving bunnies squirrels and other small critters out the airlock to find out what happens.... since we cant send people... can we?
|
Cosmosa Magellan
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:29:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Winterblink The boiling blood thing comes from the thought that sudden exposure to the lack of pressure in space would cause the dissolved gases in your blood to expand rapidly (essentially a tech2 variant of the bends).
Which would blow.
Ah, but I'm not sure that the sudden decrease in pressure would be enough (proportionally) to create such a dramatic effect...obviously there would be significant damage to the orifices and make one's last several minutes very unpleasant, but I'm not sure it would be enough to make one's blood literally boil.
|
EliteSlave
Minmatar Tau Ceti Global Production Knights Of the Southerncross
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:30:00 -
[8]
TL : DR
|
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh? ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
Mazzarins Demise
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:33:00 -
[10]
I'm sorry but when I read your topic, it was the only thing I thought of.
|
|
|
CCP Atropos
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
Haha! Mephysto and I were trying to work out the equivalent amount of TNT required by the firing of one Antimatter L round, the other day. Counterpoint to that is the use of Nuclear and Depleted Uranium rounds for Projectiles and such. How the crews don't get instantly irradiated and die a horrible death at the start of combat I don't know.
|
|
Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan 2. Transfer of Heat Another common misconception is that transmission of temperature and heat in space works on the same scale that it does here on planet Earth (Or Amarr, or New Caldari, what have you). Here on earth, at a pressure of 14 PSI (sea level) we feel the effects of heat and cold quite quickly, from a breeze, campfire, or furnace. However, this is largly a factor of density, and how quickly we ôfeelö a temperature change is dependant onf the density of our environment(4). In space, since there is so little density of particles, being shoved out of an airlock would not create the gruesome and dramatic death as portrayed in EVEÆs Prime fiction(5). In fact, unless one sweats profusely (the sweat would very quickly evaporate, creating an impressive chill) the most likely cause of death for someone exposed to the vacuum of space would most likely die of suffocation or radiation poisoning. Unfortunately in several instances it is implied or explicitly stated(5) that those exposed to the vacuum of space die in all kinds of exotic ways, including having their skin boil, freezing, or having their heads explode. This is in no way accurate!
I hope that ths matter is corrected or at least acknowledged in the near future. Thankyou for your time, CCP!
My References:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum#Outer_space 2. Unfortunately I was unable to find a source for this but an article exists on Slashdot.org 3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature#Temperature_of_the_vacuum 4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature#Second-law_definition_of_temperature 5. http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/jul01-02.asp
Well- I think you're right and wrong on this: I thought it studies indicated that within 30 seconds of the vacuum of space, the water in your blood would begin to freeze and evaporate. Apparently, this happened to 3 Russian Cosmonauts, although their fate was a bit different than being "spaced".
While you wouldn't "feel" the effects of extreme cold and you'd probably last a good 30 seconds (provided you've exhaled all of the oxygen from your lungs and curled up into a ball). The effects of terminal hypoxia on the brain, coupled with the threat of your veins and arteries popping very rapidly one at a time, as well as your helpless grasp at inhaling, would be terrifying.
What's even worse is the near instant and excruciating blindness caused by the liquids in your eyes evaporating and freezing over (10 seconds). Followed by your inner ears exploding (12 seconds) and finger tips completely freezing (15 seconds)
I could go on, but it gets progressively worse after that.
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:42:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Snake Doctor Well- I think you're right and wrong on this: I thought it studies indicated that within 30 seconds of the vacuum of space, the water in your blood would begin to freeze and evaporate. Apparently, this happened to 3 Russian Cosmonauts, although their fate was a bit different than being "spaced".
While you wouldn't "feel" the effects of extreme cold and you'd probably last a good 30 seconds (provided you've exhaled all of the oxygen from your lungs and curled up into a ball). The effects of terminal hypoxia on the brain, coupled with the threat of your veins and arteries popping very rapidly one at a time, as well as your helpless grasp at inhaling, would be terrifying.
What's even worse is the near instant and excruciating blindness caused by the liquids in your eyes evaporating and freezing over (10 seconds). Followed by your inner ears exploding (12 seconds) and finger tips completely freezing (15 seconds)
I could go on, but it gets progressively worse after that.
Please do actually, I'm morbid. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
Taedrin
Gallente Magellan Exploration and Survey Rare Faction
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
The sun spews out these things called photons. On Earth, we only receive low energy photons because the high energy photons are filtered out by the ozone layer, the Van Allen radiation belt, and Earths magnetic field. In space, you don't have any of these nifty things. When a high energy photon hits a molecule of your DNA, DNA Damage can occur. Now, consider that the number of high energy photons that collide with your DNA molecules in space is OVER NINE THOUSAND!!?!?!?!, you body has a tough time repairing all that damage. When your body can't keep up, you can get cancer, the affected cells die or go irreversibly dormant.
If this happens enough, stuff happens and you die.
|
Mordru Maligante
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:46:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Mordru Maligante on 15/10/2007 17:47:34
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
Haha! Mephysto and I were trying to work out the equivalent amount of TNT required by the firing of one Antimatter L round, the other day. Counterpoint to that is the use of Nuclear and Depleted Uranium rounds for Projectiles and such. How the crews don't get instantly irradiated and die a horrible death at the start of combat I don't know.
On my ships, my crew are sufficiently shielded such that they do not instantly die when combat commences. However, the majority of them do become deathly ill and only have a life expectancy of a few months. This is really not a big issue though. I just dock, recrew, and move on. :-O
As to interstellar standards of safe working conditions, only one area of great importance comes to mind: P O D!
|
Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
Haha! Mephysto and I were trying to work out the equivalent amount of TNT required by the firing of one Antimatter L round, the other day. Counterpoint to that is the use of Nuclear and Depleted Uranium rounds for Projectiles and such. How the crews don't get instantly irradiated and die a horrible death at the start of combat I don't know.
1. Depleted Uranium does not emit radiation. Poorly classified Depleted Uranium may emit some alpha particles. Be sure to wash your hands after touching it. 2. Nuclear ammo (like conventional nuclear weapons) consists of a nuclear fission material encased in an explosive charge. Working with these would be about as dangerous as working on a Russian Nuke sub-- Come to think of it, The Minnies are probably being dosed worse by their own ship cores than their ammunition :)
3. Just for ****s here, I don't think you fire a railgun with explosives. To get the antimatter effect out the round, however, it would take little more than *****ing the casing (or disabling the EM field in place to prevent the antimatter from touching the matter-based casing.)
Just some thoughts on physics :)
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:47:00 -
[17]
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
Haha! Mephysto and I were trying to work out the equivalent amount of TNT required by the firing of one Antimatter L round, the other day. Counterpoint to that is the use of Nuclear and Depleted Uranium rounds for Projectiles and such. How the crews don't get instantly irradiated and die a horrible death at the start of combat I don't know.
Well, irl nuclear submarine's crew don't die. The medium fregate's size is about the same size of these submarines.
I agree being shot at shouldn't be at no consequences, but it's a game :) Or CCP would have to modelize ice on ships and melting ice when they get too close to suns ? Would they have to localize damages too if realism is seeked ? 2isk
|
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
The sun spews out these things called photons. On Earth, we only receive low energy photons because the high energy photons are filtered out by the ozone layer, the Van Allen radiation belt, and Earths magnetic field. In space, you don't have any of these nifty things. When a high energy photon hits a molecule of your DNA, DNA Damage can occur. Now, consider that the number of high energy photons that collide with your DNA molecules in space is OVER NINE THOUSAND!!?!?!?!, you body has a tough time repairing all that damage. When your body can't keep up, you can get cancer, the affected cells die or go irreversibly dormant.
If this happens enough, stuff happens and you die.
1. Are you the OP's main. 2. I don't think 5 minutes in space is enough to give you radiation poisoning... 3. WHAT NINE THOUSAND?! ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:48:00 -
[19]
OP got forum-owned by a dev
Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking
I owned someone on forums!!! |
Slanty McGarglefist
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny OP got forum-owned by a dev
The Definition of forum-owned by a dev
__________________________________________________
Originally by: CCP Wrangler No
Doh! |
|
Cosmosa Magellan
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:49:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny OP got forum-owned by a dev
I'm not familiar with this term...
|
Tristeria
Phantasmal Collective Sylph Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:50:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Tristeria on 15/10/2007 17:53:19 Warning this thread conatins broked science mis-interpreted from what is originally an unreliable source.
For one thing the wiki states an object in orbit around earth is exposed to the same amount of solar radiation as the earth and radiation from the earths surface, resulting in an equilibrium temperature of 281K.
Now the Earth is 1 AU from the sun and if I recall correctly most eve systems stretch over dozens of AU. However Pluto with an orbit ranging between 30 and 49 AU has a mean surface temperature of 44K. Now admitedly there maybe some other factors affecting this temperature and again it is a value fished from wikipedia but it gives you some idea how significant a factor the distance from a solar body has on the temperature of an object in space.
Might post more if I cba
|
Mazzarins Demise
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:51:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tristeria Warning this thread conatins broked science mis-interpreted from what is originally an unreliable source.
For one thing the wiki states an object in orbit around earth is exposed to the same amount of solar radiation as the earth and radiation from the earths surface, resulting in an equilibrium temperature of 281K.
Now the Earth is 1 AU from the sun and if I recall correctly most eve systems stretch over dozens of AU. However Pluto with an orbit ranging between 30 and 49 AU has a mean surface temperature of 44K. Now admitedly there maybe some other factors affecting this temperature and again it is a value fished from wikipedia but it gives you some idea how significant a factor the distance from a solar body has on the temperature of an object.
Might post mroe if I cba
Isn't taking any information from Wikipedia a bad move in general?
|
Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:51:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
The sun spews out these things called photons. On Earth, we only receive low energy photons because the high energy photons are filtered out by the ozone layer, the Van Allen radiation belt, and Earths magnetic field. In space, you don't have any of these nifty things. When a high energy photon hits a molecule of your DNA, DNA Damage can occur. Now, consider that the number of high energy photons that collide with your DNA molecules in space is OVER NINE THOUSAND!!?!?!?!, you body has a tough time repairing all that damage. When your body can't keep up, you can get cancer, the affected cells die or go irreversibly dormant.
If this happens enough, stuff happens and you die.
Actually, in the case of direct sunlight, you're receive EM radiation and UV radiation. Photons aren't a worry, because you're long dead by then. The UV would penetrate you somewhere in the range of 85%, cooking your insides. It would take about 8 seconds to make you crispy on the inside.
Assuming you're in the dark, you could take a hit from the radiation and still live, provided you've got iodine onboard. Just DON'T drink it. DO NOT. DO NOT DO NOT drink iodine. I don't care what television tells you to do.
Just remember if exposed to radiation: If you puke, you're already dead.
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Sylvia Lafayette
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:55:00 -
[25]
I still want to send bunnies out the airlock... along with other critters
|
Tristeria
Phantasmal Collective Sylph Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:56:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Mazzarins Demise
Originally by: Tristeria Warning this thread conatins broked science mis-interpreted from what is originally an unreliable source.
For one thing the wiki states an object in orbit around earth is exposed to the same amount of solar radiation as the earth and radiation from the earths surface, resulting in an equilibrium temperature of 281K.
Now the Earth is 1 AU from the sun and if I recall correctly most eve systems stretch over dozens of AU. However Pluto with an orbit ranging between 30 and 49 AU has a mean surface temperature of 44K. Now admitedly there maybe some other factors affecting this temperature and again it is a value fished from wikipedia but it gives you some idea how significant a factor the distance from a solar body has on the temperature of an object.
Might post mroe if I cba
Isn't taking any information from Wikipedia a bad move in general?
Well if its for any kind of academic purpose then yes, wikipedia is only really useful as a nice and easy way of pulling up information that will at least give you some idea of what to expect. I actually like using the site myself but I always keep in mind that the information there is by no means reliable =)
|
Jimer Lins
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:57:00 -
[27]
There was a discussion about this a while back. I had thought your blood would boil and freeze simultaneously if you were exposed to vacuum, but I was incorrect- the human body itself insulates the liquid in you pretty well to keep that from happening.
What would happen, apparently backed up by studies involving animals (shudder), is that if you held your breath your lungs would rupture- ouch. If you didn't, you'd have about 5-10 seconds of usable consciousness before you start suffering from "the bends" (bubbles in the bloodstream), followed by other nastiness.
Anyway, not something you want to experience. And yeah, if you're exposed to sunlight in space directly, you'll fry fast.
-- EVE Glossary Exploration Video |
Cosmosa Magellan
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:57:00 -
[28]
I can support this with other sources, I just felt that Wikipedia was the most appropriate and easy to demonstrate
|
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:57:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan Ah, but I'm not sure that the sudden decrease in pressure would be enough (proportionally) to create such a dramatic effect...obviously there would be significant damage to the orifices and make one's last several minutes very unpleasant, but I'm not sure it would be enough to make one's blood literally boil.
Only one way to find out: send up Michael Jackson's pet monkey on a rocket and depressurize it. I recommend MJ's for this since it's already been named appropriately. :)
|
Jimer Lins
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:00:00 -
[30]
Ah, found the link.
-- EVE Glossary Exploration Video |
|
Sadayiel
Caldari Dragon Highlords THE R0NIN
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:01:00 -
[31]
wait does this mean ppl don't inflate on vacuum and explode!!!
bah the simpsons failed me again
Anyway nothing it's funier than implode things, helps on hauling ya know
|
Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:06:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Jimer Lins There was a discussion about this a while back. I had thought your blood would boil and freeze simultaneously if you were exposed to vacuum, but I was incorrect- the human body itself insulates the liquid in you pretty well to keep that from happening.
What would happen, apparently backed up by studies involving animals (shudder), is that if you held your breath your lungs would rupture- ouch. If you didn't, you'd have about 5-10 seconds of usable consciousness before you start suffering from "the bends" (bubbles in the bloodstream), followed by other nastiness.
Anyway, not something you want to experience. And yeah, if you're exposed to sunlight in space directly, you'll fry fast.
Rupture! Thats the word I was looking for. D'oh.
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Tristeria
Phantasmal Collective Sylph Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:08:00 -
[33]
Also to add to these discussions on solar radiation it seems your all assuming that the hypothetical human body in space is completely naked and has no protective clothing right? =p
|
Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:10:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Tristeria Also to add to these discussions on solar radiation it seems your all assuming that the hypothetical human body in space is completely naked and has no protective clothing right? =p
Well, duh. Don't you walk around your shuttle naked?
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:12:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan
1. Temperature There is a common misconception among the general public that space isàwellàcold. Extremely cold, in fact, certainly cold enough to kill any human exposed to it. But this is, in fact, not at all the case within the confines of any solar system(3)! Solar radiation and particles in and around planetary atmospheres affect the temperature of space, on average space within the boundaries of a solar system like ours is approximately 8 degrees Celcius, not comfortable but certainly not lethal by any means! I imagine that farther away from the center of a solar system the temperature would decrease, but to find a lethally-cold temperature one would have to be several hundred AUÆs away from the system center, and I have not seen a solar system so large in EVE (though I have not yet left empire space). It is safe to say that this is an inaccuracy that should be connected.
This is not quite true. Space is "cold". The definition of temperature is basically and simply put the average speed of particles in a system. High temperature in the air = "air"-particles moving fast. Problem is the distance between particles in space, greater parts of the zone between celestials, is huge and the definition of temperature is really not applyable anyways. It might be true though that if you throw an object out in space it might get heated or cooled down to a 8 degree celcius but this is purely from radiation that is heating the object and not the effect of temperature of space itsself. Space will actually work more or less like absolute zero towards objects in space heat-wise.
|
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:13:00 -
[36]
Can we all just agree the experience would be both short and horrible? :)
|
Sadayiel
Caldari Dragon Highlords THE R0NIN
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:15:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Winterblink Can we all just agree the experience would be both short and horrible? :)
yep also amusing to watch.
Don't like at me like that i'm a monster that podkill smaller monsters!!
|
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:24:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Tarminic on 15/10/2007 18:24:26 I'd like to dedicate this pseudo-whine to Maltitol, whose 15 million ISk donation made it all possible.
Sadly it does not appear to be a hit on the scale of my previous attempts, but I consider it a success regardless. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
Taedrin
Gallente Magellan Exploration and Survey Rare Faction
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:26:00 -
[39]
forum whoring at its finest, lol
|
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:27:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Taedrin forum whoring at its finest, lol
Don't forget, I'm still accepting offers. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:28:00 -
[41]
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
Haha! Mephysto and I were trying to work out the equivalent amount of TNT required by the firing of one Antimatter L round, the other day.
Did your estimates agree with the ones in this thread? My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Christina Bamar
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:43:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Snake Doctor
Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
The sun spews out these things called photons. On Earth, we only receive low energy photons because the high energy photons are filtered out by the ozone layer, the Van Allen radiation belt, and Earths magnetic field. In space, you don't have any of these nifty things. When a high energy photon hits a molecule of your DNA, DNA Damage can occur. Now, consider that the number of high energy photons that collide with your DNA molecules in space is OVER NINE THOUSAND!!?!?!?!, you body has a tough time repairing all that damage. When your body can't keep up, you can get cancer, the affected cells die or go irreversibly dormant.
If this happens enough, stuff happens and you die.
Actually, in the case of direct sunlight, you're receive EM radiation and UV radiation. Photons aren't a worry, because you're long dead by then. The UV would penetrate you somewhere in the range of 85%, cooking your insides. It would take about 8 seconds to make you crispy on the inside.
Assuming you're in the dark, you could take a hit from the radiation and still live, provided you've got iodine onboard. Just DON'T drink it. DO NOT. DO NOT DO NOT drink iodine. I don't care what television tells you to do.
Just remember if exposed to radiation: If you puke, you're already dead.
That makes no sense....
UV is EM radiation, just of a specific frequency range, and all EM radiation is made up of photons.
|
YunFu Yan
Yan Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:45:00 -
[43]
Having studied a few semesters of physics and always being interested in space and space travel I wanna give my 2 cents too...
Space IS cold.
What we feel and recognize as hot or cold is actually 'heat' leaving or entering our body. This happens according to the laws of thermodynamics which basicly say, that in a closed system different energy levels (temperature and pressure are the ones that matter in our case) smoothen out over time. The higher the diference between those levels, the faster the process occurs.
The oponents:
Pilot, 309 ¦K, 1 bar
vs
space, 8 ¦K, 0 bar
When exposed to the 'vacuum' a few things happen.
We have to consider the thermodynamics laws again cause this one is a bit tricky tricky. You'd actually think the different temperature levels would be the 1st thing to consider but thats not true. Due to the lack of a transfer medium (something to abosrb the heat from the pilots body) it's just not happening. So we're looking at more or less an isothermal process as the temerature 1st stays constant. What happens instead is, that the pressure inside of our poor pilots body tries to adapt. Liquids vaporize, gases expand... this is what was meant with 'blood boiling' probably. However the vaporization of a lquid or expansions of a gas cause it to cool down. (The same amount of particles suddenly has alot more space to move in, less collisions between particles occur, temperature drops.)
This could (speculation here) cause certain body fluids to vaporize 1st when the pressure adapts and at the same time freeze because of the resulting temperature drop.
So, after just a few seconds, our pilots skin would be frozen. The core temperature of his body would still be close to normal thou. But after the pressure adaption a large portion of his intern organs would be goo.
The 'exploding head' isn't going to happen... it'd be more like brain out of your ears and blood comming out of your eyes and face, freezing as soon as it exits the body (once again, this doesn't happen due to the difference in temperature but the difference in pressure).
Yan Enterprises - We mean business. |
Quutar
Ars ex Discordia
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:47:00 -
[44]
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
Haha! Mephysto and I were trying to work out the equivalent amount of TNT required by the firing of one Antimatter L round, the other day. Counterpoint to that is the use of Nuclear and Depleted Uranium rounds for Projectiles and such. How the crews don't get instantly irradiated and die a horrible death at the start of combat I don't know.
I have read the hands of a killer prime fiction...
we just get new crew when we dock... they are cheap.
Consider it a perk of employment... free sterilization when joining a pod piloted ship. Quutar Research Services Selling Amarr Outpost BPCs ME:10 |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:53:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan
1. Temperature There is a common misconception among the general public that space is…well…cold. ...
...on average space within the boundaries of a solar system like ours is approximately 8 degrees Celcius
Please think first
How do you think are all the outer moons deeply frozen (exceptions are moons close to giant planets which heat up because of tidal friction, but that is a different story)? Jupiter for example is around 5 AU away from the sun, so are their moons. Ganymed for example has a surface temperature of -160 ¦C. You go further away, you find even colder moons. The saturn moon Calypso has already a temperature of only -200 ¦C!
If 'space' would have a temperature of +8 degree celsius in the solar system, then all those frozen moons and planets would heat up and melt instantly.
What you misunderstood in the wikipedia article (temperature of vakuum) is that they mentioned the radiation income from the sun AT 1 AU DISTANCE.
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan
...to find a lethally-cold temperature one would have to be several hundred AU’s away from the system center...
Saturn is only 9-10 AU away from the sun and it is already there cold. Really cold! Colder than the beer in my fridge, and that says something! Actually the moons (as mentioned above) are deeply frozen at -200 degree celsius.
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan
2. Cosmic Background Radiation
Cosmic background radiation is around 3 ¦K. This is -270 ¦C. Not really warm. You can neglect it for practical considerations.
|
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:54:00 -
[46]
I remember back in the day when Event Horizon came out, that some "experts" chimed in that they had the most accurate representation of decompression that's been done in film. No bodies going SPLOOF, just a whole lot of lung damage, ruptured capillaries, and general owies.
Not the best of films, of course. Though I can't recall seeing a sci-fi movie where the braking thrusters of a SAR vessel nearly deafened the entire movie audience before.
|
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:56:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Winterblink I remember back in the day when Event Horizon came out, that some "experts" chimed in that they had the most accurate representation of decompression that's been done in film. No bodies going SPLOOF, just a whole lot of lung damage, ruptured capillaries, and general owies.
Not the best of films, of course. Though I can't recall seeing a sci-fi movie where the braking thrusters of a SAR vessel nearly deafened the entire movie audience before.
Wins the aware for most evil-looking FTL drive though. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
Barrick Stormsworn
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:15:00 -
[48]
I <3 the EVE community...
|
Sadayiel
Caldari Dragon Highlords THE R0NIN
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:18:00 -
[49]
did someone notice that CCP already knew that!!!
You get frozen corpses, not exploding corpses and even when the seconds seems more efficient to attack shielded oponents all the old zombie lovers as me still await the frozen corpse launcher MKII from ccp instead snow launcher on xmas
|
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:20:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Tarminic Wins the award for most evil-looking FTL drive though.
Hah, totally. :) I remember watching the movie where they're like "This is the core, the gravity drive", and I'm like ... what? Looks like something a baby Cenobite chews on when teething.
|
|
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:24:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Tarminic Wins the award for most evil-looking FTL drive though.
Hah, totally. :) I remember watching the movie where they're like "This is the core, the gravity drive", and I'm like ... what? Looks like something a baby Cenobite chews on when teething.
I imagined this scenario:
Scientist 1: Well, that's it. We've completed the core of the gravity drive! Scientist 2: Hrm...something seems a bit off... Scientist 1: Yeah...it does... Scientist 2: Does this look a little, y'know, evil to you? Scientist 1: Hmm...hey Dave! Come look at this, we have a question for you! Scientist 3: Yeah? Scientist 1: Does this Gravity Drive look a little evil to you? Scientist 3: With the spikes, and the creepy rotating rings and the black scaly metal? Totally. Scientist 2: SEE! Scientist 1: Hrm...yeah...strange coincidence though. Everything is built to specifications. Oh well. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:30:00 -
[52]
The OP makes the classic mistake of assuming space in EVE is not filled with vegetable oil.
We'll chalk this one up to experience though. ------
Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts! |
Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:36:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Christina Bamar
Originally by: Snake Doctor
Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
The sun spews out these things called photons. On Earth, we only receive low energy photons because the high energy photons are filtered out by the ozone layer, the Van Allen radiation belt, and Earths magnetic field. In space, you don't have any of these nifty things. When a high energy photon hits a molecule of your DNA, DNA Damage can occur. Now, consider that the number of high energy photons that collide with your DNA molecules in space is OVER NINE THOUSAND!!?!?!?!, you body has a tough time repairing all that damage. When your body can't keep up, you can get cancer, the affected cells die or go irreversibly dormant.
If this happens enough, stuff happens and you die.
Actually, in the case of direct sunlight, you're receive EM radiation and UV radiation. Photons aren't a worry, because you're long dead by then. The UV would penetrate you somewhere in the range of 85%, cooking your insides. It would take about 8 seconds to make you crispy on the inside.
Assuming you're in the dark, you could take a hit from the radiation and still live, provided you've got iodine onboard. Just DON'T drink it. DO NOT. DO NOT DO NOT drink iodine. I don't care what television tells you to do.
Just remember if exposed to radiation: If you puke, you're already dead.
That makes no sense....
UV is EM radiation, just of a specific frequency range, and all EM radiation is made up of photons.
Arrrg- Sorry about that. I was thinking in terms of EVE again. I do that too much- When I talk about EM, I simply meant Microwave and X ray. They wouldn't give you the same kind of nasty sunburn as UV.
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:37:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Tarminic I imagined this scenario:
Scientist 1: Well, that's it. We've completed the core of the gravity drive! Scientist 2: Hrm...something seems a bit off... Scientist 1: Yeah...it does... Scientist 2: Does this look a little, y'know, evil to you? Scientist 1: Hmm...hey Dave! Come look at this, we have a question for you! Scientist 3: Yeah? Scientist 1: Does this Gravity Drive look a little evil to you? Scientist 3: With the spikes, and the creepy rotating rings and the black scaly metal? Totally. Scientist 2: SEE! Scientist 1: Hrm...yeah...strange coincidence though. Everything is built to specifications. Oh well.
Indeed. I mean really, the guy's borderline suicidal over his wife's own suicide. Probably not the person to be put in charge of an engineering project involving creation of a black hole.
|
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:39:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Tarminic I imagined this scenario:
Scientist 1: Well, that's it. We've completed the core of the gravity drive! Scientist 2: Hrm...something seems a bit off... Scientist 1: Yeah...it does... Scientist 2: Does this look a little, y'know, evil to you? Scientist 1: Hmm...hey Dave! Come look at this, we have a question for you! Scientist 3: Yeah? Scientist 1: Does this Gravity Drive look a little evil to you? Scientist 3: With the spikes, and the creepy rotating rings and the black scaly metal? Totally. Scientist 2: SEE! Scientist 1: Hrm...yeah...strange coincidence though. Everything is built to specifications. Oh well.
Indeed. I mean really, the guy's borderline suicidal over his wife's own suicide. Probably not the person to be put in charge of an engineering project involving creation of a black hole.
And when it comes down to it, why for the love of GOD was the entire chamber covered in scaly iron spikes?! What possible scientific reason could there be for random spikes covering the entire surface of the engine chamber! ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
Jimer Lins
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:40:00 -
[56]
I liked Event Horizon overall, but I'm a SF horror junkie; not enough good SF horror, imo. ;)
My favorite part about that film is that you never actually *see* any bad guys, at least not direcctly. You only see what the people on the ship see themselves, which could be anything.
-- EVE Glossary Exploration Video |
Jimer Lins
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:41:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Tarminic And when it comes down to it, why for the love of GOD was the entire chamber covered in scaly iron spikes?! What possible scientific reason could there be for random spikes covering the entire surface of the engine chamber!
Magnetic waveguides.
-- EVE Glossary Exploration Video |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:41:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Tarminic And when it comes down to it, why for the love of GOD was the entire chamber covered in scaly iron spikes?! What possible scientific reason could there be for random spikes covering the entire surface of the engine chamber!
Good spots for impaling post-it notes.
Don't even get me started on the inefficiencies of having like 500 explosive devices to disconnect the front of the ship from the back.
|
YunFu Yan
Yan Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:46:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Winterblink Don't even get me started on the inefficiencies of having like 500 explosive devices to disconnect the front of the ship from the back.
You have other ideas to counter the inertia of a few thousand tons of steel in a matter of seconds?
It makes sense if you think about it... well infact it doesn't... you'd need ALOT MORE explosives.
Yan Enterprises - We mean business. |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Sublime.
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:46:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Tristeria Well if its for any kind of academic purpose then yes, wikipedia is only really useful as a nice and easy way of pulling up information that will at least give you some idea of what to expect. I actually like using the site myself but I always keep in mind that the information there is by no means reliable =)
Go here. But since you're probably not a subscriber, you'll have to settle for this.
We went through this before, and I came up with a whole bunch of other [formal] studies that came to the same conclusion.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
|
|
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:48:00 -
[61]
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Originally by: Winterblink Don't even get me started on the inefficiencies of having like 500 explosive devices to disconnect the front of the ship from the back.
You have other ideas to counter the inertia of a few thousand tons of steel in a matter of seconds?
It makes sense if you think about it... well infact it doesn't... you'd need ALOT MORE explosives.
One much larger explosive device, with a single point of failure instead of 500 points of failure?
Or how about a set of clamps and some...I dunno...engines. They're all the rage on spaceships today. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
YunFu Yan
Yan Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:52:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Originally by: Winterblink Don't even get me started on the inefficiencies of having like 500 explosive devices to disconnect the front of the ship from the back.
You have other ideas to counter the inertia of a few thousand tons of steel in a matter of seconds?
It makes sense if you think about it... well infact it doesn't... you'd need ALOT MORE explosives.
One much larger explosive device, with a single point of failure instead of 500 points of failure?
Or how about a set of clamps and some...I dunno...engines. They're all the rage on spaceships today.
Engines can only output so much force. It'll take time to accelerate something as large as the bridge section of that ship. So no good as an emergency device.
One single, much larger explosive device, while applying the same force in the same timeframe, would work towards a much smaller area of the bridge. You'd have to built that area to basicly withstand a counterforce equal to the inertia of both parts of the ship.
Yan Enterprises - We mean business. |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Sublime.
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:58:00 -
[63]
Possibly if we all just used an Infinite Improbability drive, things would be easier.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
|
Metaller
Ocean Dynamics Dark Matter Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:14:00 -
[64]
"8 degree celsius"
dude you surely understood something wrong. you better listen to your physics lessons again. if space inside the boundaries of our solarsytem would have 8 degree celsius temperature, then the second law of thermodynamics would forbid any planet to be cooler than 8 degree celsius and every planet would be inhabitable.
would be cool to have though, holidays on uranus
|
Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:18:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Snake Doctor on 15/10/2007 20:17:54
Originally by: Metaller "8 degree celsius"
dude you surely understood something wrong. you better listen to your physics lessons again. if space inside the boundaries of our solarsytem would have 8 degree celsius temperature, then the second law of thermodynamics would forbid any planet to be cooler than 8 degree celsius and every planet would be inhabitable.
would be cool to have though, holidays on uranus
Maybe he means 8*K?
8C is just a teeeeeeeeny bit high...
8*k= -265.something*C
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Metaller
Ocean Dynamics Dark Matter Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:18:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan
Originally by: Winterblink The boiling blood thing comes from the thought that sudden exposure to the lack of pressure in space would cause the dissolved gases in your blood to expand rapidly (essentially a tech2 variant of the bends).
Which would blow.
Ah, but I'm not sure that the sudden decrease in pressure would be enough (proportionally) to create such a dramatic effect...obviously there would be significant damage to the orifices and make one's last several minutes very unpleasant, but I'm not sure it would be enough to make one's blood literally boil.
yes it would be!!! ive seen that myself, tho not on a human, but trying to get a vacuum into a closed bottle with water inside will make the water boil, or even ice will go to steam even without bothering to be liquid before that. temperature!!!
|
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:19:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Snake Doctor Edited by: Snake Doctor on 15/10/2007 20:17:54
Originally by: Metaller "8 degree celsius"
dude you surely understood something wrong. you better listen to your physics lessons again. if space inside the boundaries of our solarsytem would have 8 degree celsius temperature, then the second law of thermodynamics would forbid any planet to be cooler than 8 degree celsius and every planet would be inhabitable.
would be cool to have though, holidays on uranus
Maybe he means 8*K?
8C is just a teeeeeeeeny bit high...
8*k= -265.something*C
I'm pretty sure this is what he meant. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
Metaller
Ocean Dynamics Dark Matter Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:19:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Snake Doctor Edited by: Snake Doctor on 15/10/2007 20:17:54
Originally by: Metaller "8 degree celsius"
dude you surely understood something wrong. you better listen to your physics lessons again. if space inside the boundaries of our solarsytem would have 8 degree celsius temperature, then the second law of thermodynamics would forbid any planet to be cooler than 8 degree celsius and every planet would be inhabitable.
would be cool to have though, holidays on uranus
Maybe he means 8*K?
8C is just a teeeeeeeeny bit high...
8*k= -265.something*C
yeah, thats what im thinking too, and 8 Kelvin is lethal
|
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:19:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Metaller "8 degree celsius"
dude you surely understood something wrong. you better listen to your physics lessons again. if space inside the boundaries of our solarsytem would have 8 degree celsius temperature, then the second law of thermodynamics would forbid any planet to be cooler than 8 degree celsius and every planet would be inhabitable.
would be cool to have though, holidays on uranus
He probably meant Kelvin. Man who knew this would get so... heated. :D
|
Sylvia Lafayette
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:20:00 -
[70]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt Possibly if we all just used an Infinite Improbability drive, things would be easier.
WTB Infinite Improbability Drive for my Black ops Dominix
|
|
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:21:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Winterblink He probably meant Kelvin. Man who knew this would get so... heated. :D
I will spare you my wrath, but only because this thread is my creation and should be the proper place for campy humor. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:22:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Winterblink He probably meant Kelvin. Man who knew this would get so... heated. :D
I will spare you my wrath, but only because this thread is my creation and should be the proper place for campy humor.
I forgot you had your punny bone removed. :D
|
Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:23:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Sylvia Lafayette
Originally by: An Anarchyyt Possibly if we all just used an Infinite Improbability drive, things would be easier.
WTB Infinite Improbability Drive for my Black ops Dominix
/WIN.
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Jimer Lins
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:23:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Winterblink He probably meant Kelvin. Man who knew this would get so... heated. :D
Now, let's keep the friction to a minimum.
-- EVE Glossary Exploration Video |
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:24:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Winterblink He probably meant Kelvin. Man who knew this would get so... heated. :D
I will spare you my wrath, but only because this thread is my creation and should be the proper place for campy humor.
I forgot you had your punny bone removed. :D
You know those scenes in bad animes where someone said something so ridiculous that everyone in the room comically collapses in a single frame? I just did that. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
Maltitol
Gallente Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:24:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Tarminic Edited by: Tarminic on 15/10/2007 18:24:26 I'd like to dedicate this pseudo-whine to Maltitol, whose 15 million ISk donation made it all possible.
Sadly it does not appear to be a hit on the scale of my previous attempts, but I consider it a success regardless.
Thank you kindly! I figured whining about space to ccp to change it would be hilarious,and it actually was :P
Thanks!
|
Metaller
Ocean Dynamics Dark Matter Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:27:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Snake Doctor
Actually, in the case of direct sunlight, you're receive EM radiation and UV radiation. Photons aren't a worry, because you're long dead by then.
LOL
actually every EM radiation, is it UV, light, microwaves, gamma rays, x-rays consits of photons.
Im learning quantum mechanics for a big exam in 1.5 weeks. sorry to bother you guys with all that stuff
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:31:00 -
[78]
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
Haha! Mephysto and I were trying to work out the equivalent amount of TNT required by the firing of one Antimatter L round, the other day. Counterpoint to that is the use of Nuclear and Depleted Uranium rounds for Projectiles and such. How the crews don't get instantly irradiated and die a horrible death at the start of combat I don't know.
so how much tnt does it take to launch a round of antimatter to cover 250km instantly?
f=ma r2=r1 + vi*t+ 1/2*a*t^2
|
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:32:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
so how much tnt does it take to launch a round of antimatter to cover 250km instantly?
f=ma r2=r1 + vi*t+ 1/2*a*t^2
I think this was discussed in another thread...and it was a lot. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
Washell Olivaw
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:52:00 -
[80]
/cheers
for a thread full of hollywood movie science.
My apologies to the 2 or 3 posters in here that actually managed to get most of it right.
To the OP: All of the effects you mentioned are negligable to space ships under active power. Only stuff like the voyager space probes need to take it into account, since they're coasting along for billions of miles.
Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
|
|
Acacia Everto
Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 21:10:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
so how much tnt does it take to launch a round of antimatter to cover 250km instantly?
f=ma r2=r1 + vi*t+ 1/2*a*t^2
I think this was discussed in another thread...and it was a lot.
I calculated it out for one of the projectile rounds in another thread. It ended up being on the order of the output of the all United State's nuclear reactors...for two weeks. Some massive amount of power.
|
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 22:26:00 -
[82]
Originally by: YunFu Yan Having studied a few semesters of physics and always being interested in space and space travel I wanna give my 2 cents too...
Space IS cold.
What we feel and recognize as hot or cold is actually 'heat' leaving or entering our body. This happens according to the laws of thermodynamics which basicly say, that in a closed system different energy levels (temperature and pressure are the ones that matter in our case) smoothen out over time. The higher the diference between those levels, the faster the process occurs.
The oponents:
Pilot, 309 ¦K, 1 bar
vs
space, 8 ¦K, 0 bar
When exposed to the 'vacuum' a few things happen.
We have to consider the thermodynamics laws again cause this one is a bit tricky tricky. You'd actually think the different temperature levels would be the 1st thing to consider but thats not true. Due to the lack of a transfer medium (something to abosrb the heat from the pilots body) it's just not happening. So we're looking at more or less an isothermal process as the temerature 1st stays constant. What happens instead is, that the pressure inside of our poor pilots body tries to adapt. Liquids vaporize, gases expand... this is what was meant with 'blood boiling' probably. However the vaporization of a lquid or expansions of a gas cause it to cool down. (The same amount of particles suddenly has alot more space to move in, less collisions between particles occur, temperature drops.)
This could (speculation here) cause certain body fluids to vaporize 1st when the pressure adapts and at the same time freeze because of the resulting temperature drop.
So, after just a few seconds, our pilots skin would be frozen. The core temperature of his body would still be close to normal thou. But after the pressure adaption a large portion of his intern organs would be goo.
The 'exploding head' isn't going to happen... it'd be more like brain out of your ears and blood comming out of your eyes and face, freezing as soon as it exits the body (once again, this doesn't happen due to the difference in temperature but the difference in pressure).
Actually an unprotected (no spacesuit) human survives alot longer then most think when exposed to space. You dont explode, thats for sure. 1bar drop in pressure difference isnt good for the body sure but its not extreme enough to start brain fluids to rush out of your ears. A human can stay conscious for a minute or so in space and after losing it still be alive for up to several minutes. Ofcourse there will be health problems after this like "diving" sickness and frozen body parts etc.
|
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 22:31:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
Haha! Mephysto and I were trying to work out the equivalent amount of TNT required by the firing of one Antimatter L round, the other day. Counterpoint to that is the use of Nuclear and Depleted Uranium rounds for Projectiles and such. How the crews don't get instantly irradiated and die a horrible death at the start of combat I don't know.
so how much tnt does it take to launch a round of antimatter to cover 250km instantly?
f=ma r2=r1 + vi*t+ 1/2*a*t^2
Uhm this somehow doesnt make sense. You cant get anything instantly anywhere. Every particle that is capable of transporting information (bullets etc go into this category) is speed capped at light speed.
|
Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 22:32:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: YunFu Yan Having studied a few semesters of physics and always being interested in space and space travel I wanna give my 2 cents too...
Space IS cold.
What we feel and recognize as hot or cold is actually 'heat' leaving or entering our body. This happens according to the laws of thermodynamics which basicly say, that in a closed system different energy levels (temperature and pressure are the ones that matter in our case) smoothen out over time. The higher the diference between those levels, the faster the process occurs.
The oponents:
Pilot, 309 ¦K, 1 bar
vs
space, 8 ¦K, 0 bar
When exposed to the 'vacuum' a few things happen.
We have to consider the thermodynamics laws again cause this one is a bit tricky tricky. You'd actually think the different temperature levels would be the 1st thing to consider but thats not true. Due to the lack of a transfer medium (something to abosrb the heat from the pilots body) it's just not happening. So we're looking at more or less an isothermal process as the temerature 1st stays constant. What happens instead is, that the pressure inside of our poor pilots body tries to adapt. Liquids vaporize, gases expand... this is what was meant with 'blood boiling' probably. However the vaporization of a lquid or expansions of a gas cause it to cool down. (The same amount of particles suddenly has alot more space to move in, less collisions between particles occur, temperature drops.)
This could (speculation here) cause certain body fluids to vaporize 1st when the pressure adapts and at the same time freeze because of the resulting temperature drop.
So, after just a few seconds, our pilots skin would be frozen. The core temperature of his body would still be close to normal thou. But after the pressure adaption a large portion of his intern organs would be goo.
The 'exploding head' isn't going to happen... it'd be more like brain out of your ears and blood comming out of your eyes and face, freezing as soon as it exits the body (once again, this doesn't happen due to the difference in temperature but the difference in pressure).
Actually an unprotected (no spacesuit) human survives alot longer then most think when exposed to space. You dont explode, thats for sure. 1bar drop in pressure difference isnt good for the body sure but its not extreme enough to start brain fluids to rush out of your ears. A human can stay conscious for a minute or so in space and after losing it still be alive for up to several minutes. Ofcourse there will be health problems after this like "diving" sickness and frozen body parts etc.
Don't forget to take into account an airlock decompression takes time and would be excruciating. The exploding heads come from that decompression, not a sudden vaccuum. If you're sucked out into space due to a hull breach, you may last longer. Also, you probably wont **** yourself until the VERY end (unless you lose your cool).
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 22:36:00 -
[85]
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Originally by: Winterblink Don't even get me started on the inefficiencies of having like 500 explosive devices to disconnect the front of the ship from the back.
You have other ideas to counter the inertia of a few thousand tons of steel in a matter of seconds?
It makes sense if you think about it... well infact it doesn't... you'd need ALOT MORE explosives.
One much larger explosive device, with a single point of failure instead of 500 points of failure?
Or how about a set of clamps and some...I dunno...engines. They're all the rage on spaceships today.
Engines can only output so much force. It'll take time to accelerate something as large as the bridge section of that ship. So no good as an emergency device.
One single, much larger explosive device, while applying the same force in the same timeframe, would work towards a much smaller area of the bridge. You'd have to built that area to basicly withstand a counterforce equal to the inertia of both parts of the ship.
Uhm well this isnt a huge problem. You simply put the guns on suspension with some sort of damp and/or feather system.
|
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 22:38:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 15/10/2007 22:38:55
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Don't forget to take into account an airlock decompression takes time and would be excruciating. The exploding heads come from that decompression, not a sudden vaccuum. If you're sucked out into space due to a hull breach, you may last longer. Also, you probably wont **** yourself until the VERY end (unless you lose your cool).
No there are no heads exploding during a slow decompression either. A 1 bar decompression isnt enough.
|
Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 22:44:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Originally by: Winterblink Don't even get me started on the inefficiencies of having like 500 explosive devices to disconnect the front of the ship from the back.
You have other ideas to counter the inertia of a few thousand tons of steel in a matter of seconds?
It makes sense if you think about it... well infact it doesn't... you'd need ALOT MORE explosives.
One much larger explosive device, with a single point of failure instead of 500 points of failure?
Or how about a set of clamps and some...I dunno...engines. They're all the rage on spaceships today.
Engines can only output so much force. It'll take time to accelerate something as large as the bridge section of that ship. So no good as an emergency device.
One single, much larger explosive device, while applying the same force in the same timeframe, would work towards a much smaller area of the bridge. You'd have to built that area to basicly withstand a counterforce equal to the inertia of both parts of the ship.
Uhm well this isnt a huge problem. You simply put the guns on suspension with some sort of damp and/or feather system.
Depends on the system- Firing an XL railshot would do nearly nothing in terms of recoil, since the kinetic energy of the launch is transferred to an expense of electrical energy in the rails.
Arty's would pose quite a problem. A shot of XL arty would send your ship spinning wildly out of control, unless you had a retro to counter the blast. Even some sort of gimbaled mount is going to exert a force on the ship. You could mix a gimbaled mount and a buffer spring of some sort to soften the blow, but the shot may still send you flying.
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 22:45:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 15/10/2007 22:38:55
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Don't forget to take into account an airlock decompression takes time and would be excruciating. The exploding heads come from that decompression, not a sudden vaccuum. If you're sucked out into space due to a hull breach, you may last longer. Also, you probably wont **** yourself until the VERY end (unless you lose your cool).
No there are no heads exploding during a slow decompression either. A 1 bar decompression isnt enough.
Therin lies the problem- you'd suffocate long before anything else.
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Adonis 4174
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 22:50:00 -
[89]
This is the big secret of Eve.
The Eve gate opened into another universe where the laws of physics work a little differently. Nobody observed this fact since by the time they got a chance it had collapsed and plunged their civilisations into a new dark age and when they emerged they had forgotten all that olde-worlde Earth physics. All anyone remembered was how it worked in this universe. ----- Visible Implants - good for so many occasions |
Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 23:00:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Adonis 4174 This is the big secret of Eve.
The Eve gate opened into another universe where the laws of physics work a little differently. Nobody observed this fact since by the time they got a chance it had collapsed and plunged their civilisations into a new dark age and when they emerged they had forgotten all that olde-worlde Earth physics. All anyone remembered was how it worked in this universe.
/win.
/no further arguement
Rifter Flight Manual! |
|
Vrizuh
Eve Defence Force Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 23:01:00 -
[91]
So, what evolutionary defect made so many races enjoy asymmetrical ship designs? I mean, I get that it is space and you don't need symmetry or aerodynamics, but people still expect some degree of symmetry and "order".
Else why have your pod "simulate" sound in space?
|
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Sublime.
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 23:02:00 -
[92]
It's gettin' hot in here...
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
|
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 23:20:00 -
[93]
Great first post!
Actually, not really. Get a corp. ----------------- Friends Forever
Kill. BoB. Dead. |
Fogy
Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 23:36:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan Ah, but I'm not sure that the sudden decrease in pressure would be enough (proportionally) to create such a dramatic effect...obviously there would be significant damage to the orifices and make one's last several minutes very unpleasant, but I'm not sure it would be enough to make one's blood literally boil.
Only one way to find out: send up Michael Jackson's pet monkey on a rocket and depressurize it. I recommend MJ's for this since it's already been named appropriately. :)
I'm a scuba diver.. If i stay at depth of 30 meeters, for 1 hour i'w gone past what is considerd safe with the conserns of gasses binded into my boddy.. now if i did a rapide accent, the surounding preasure will rapidly fall, and the gasses will turn from liquid form in my body to gass form within my boddy..
It's like having a bottle of coca cola, when the cap is on and it's still sealed.. the preasure in the little air space inside is equal to the preasure in the liquid.. when you open it, the preasure in the air space is lover than the liquid causing the carbondiocide to disolve from it..
The same happens in your body when a rappid fall in preasure happens around you.. like if you were to be trown out of a air lock without any protection suite. Gases would disolve and you'd gett what is commonly named a bense.
theoreticly.. you'r skin can actually "boil" from all the gass disolving in it.. so can your bones, blood, brain, fatt tissues.
Did you know astronougths in the ISS station exercise and breath high % of oxygen befor they go outside on a mission? This is to reduse the nitrogen lvl's in theyr boddy.. wich is the gass that actually causes bens.
Cheers! Fogy
"From my rotting boddy flowers shall grow and I am in them, and that is eternity"
|
Orivanna
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 23:39:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Orivanna on 15/10/2007 23:42:52 Edited by: Orivanna on 15/10/2007 23:39:52
Originally by: Vrizuh So, what evolutionary defect made so many races enjoy asymmetrical ship designs? I mean, I get that it is space and you don't need symmetry or aerodynamics, but people still expect some degree of symmetry and "order".
Else why have your pod "simulate" sound in space?
Symmetry would still help to get your center of mass right. As it is they need different thrusts on different arm lenghts from the CM...eegh, what's the point?
EDIT: Also, fundamentally different laws of physics would be noticed by the colonists.
|
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 23:40:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan 2. Transfer of Heat I hope that ths matter is corrected or at least acknowledged in the near future. Thankyou for your time, CCP!
As it's been said before..
Go jump out an airlock.. and upload it to U-Toobe so we can see if you do indeed die....
|
Adonis 4174
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 23:44:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Orivanna Also, fundamentally different laws of physics would be noticed by the colonists.
A handful of them maybe. Most would never be piloting spacecraft to notice. Add in some corporate whitewash to avoid panicking the consumers and you have as good an excuse as you need.
----- Visible Implants - good for so many occasions |
Orivanna
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 23:44:00 -
[98]
Originally by: DeODokktor
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan 2. Transfer of Heat I hope that ths matter is corrected or at least acknowledged in the near future. Thankyou for your time, CCP!
As it's been said before..
Go jump out an airlock.. and upload it to U-Toobe so we can see if you do indeed die....
You spelled You Tube wrong. According to scientific research done by Wikipedia, there is only one way to spell You Tube, and everyone who spells it differently must be an arts major because they don't care for science.
|
Orivanna
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 23:46:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Adonis 4174
Originally by: Orivanna Also, fundamentally different laws of physics would be noticed by the colonists.
A handful of them maybe. Most would never be piloting spacecraft to notice. Add in some corporate whitewash to avoid panicking the consumers and you have as good an excuse as you need.
I think everyone would notice that the space outside of their ships has suddenly turned into sugar syrup for pancakes. The demand for pancakes would rise considerably.
|
Adonis 4174
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 23:48:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Orivanna
Originally by: Adonis 4174
Originally by: Orivanna Also, fundamentally different laws of physics would be noticed by the colonists.
A handful of them maybe. Most would never be piloting spacecraft to notice. Add in some corporate whitewash to avoid panicking the consumers and you have as good an excuse as you need.
I think everyone would notice that the space outside of their ships has suddenly turned into sugar syrup for pancakes. The demand for pancakes would rise considerably.
Well yes. It was the resulting universal indigestion which overloaded the eve gate in the first place. ----- Visible Implants - good for so many occasions |
|
Vrizuh
Eve Defence Force Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 23:49:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Orivanna Edited by: Orivanna on 15/10/2007 23:42:52 Edited by: Orivanna on 15/10/2007 23:39:52
Originally by: Vrizuh So, what evolutionary defect made so many races enjoy asymmetrical ship designs? I mean, I get that it is space and you don't need symmetry or aerodynamics, but people still expect some degree of symmetry and "order".
Else why have your pod "simulate" sound in space?
Symmetry would still help to get your center of mass right. As it is they need different thrusts on different arm lenghts from the CM...eegh, what's the point?
EDIT: Also, fundamentally different laws of physics would be noticed by the colonists.
My god, you're right. There are PRACTICAl reasons to make ships not look irritatingly asymmetrical. Everytime I see one of those stupid designs I think to myself: "What are you trying to do CCP, bludgeon me with the 'oh look, its space, no aerodynamics' thing?? Doesnt hold much water with me when you got webbed deceleration, shuttles knocking dreads off alignment etc"
|
Orivanna
|
Posted - 2007.10.15 23:52:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Vrizuh
Originally by: Orivanna Edited by: Orivanna on 15/10/2007 23:42:52 Edited by: Orivanna on 15/10/2007 23:39:52
Originally by: Vrizuh So, what evolutionary defect made so many races enjoy asymmetrical ship designs? I mean, I get that it is space and you don't need symmetry or aerodynamics, but people still expect some degree of symmetry and "order".
Else why have your pod "simulate" sound in space?
Symmetry would still help to get your center of mass right. As it is they need different thrusts on different arm lenghts from the CM...eegh, what's the point?
EDIT: Also, fundamentally different laws of physics would be noticed by the colonists.
My god, you're right. There are PRACTICAl reasons to make ships not look irritatingly asymmetrical. Everytime I see one of those stupid designs I think to myself: "What are you trying to do CCP, bludgeon me with the 'oh look, its space, no aerodynamics' thing?? Doesnt hold much water with me when you got webbed deceleration, shuttles knocking dreads off alignment etc"
Well, I guess Art Major =! Science Major (No offense to anyone), and the art department was more concerned with unique designs than scientific applications. At least we are not flying chilche sci-fi ships.
|
Luigi Thirty
Caldari 19th Star Logistics
|
Posted - 2007.10.16 00:09:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Luigi Thirty on 16/10/2007 00:10:52 I'm sorry, I can see nothing wrong. Please try to think before you make accusations, Mr. Magellan. ---- DOMINIX IS INVINCIBLE:(((( |
Some Caldari
Caldari Sanguine Raiders
|
Posted - 2007.10.16 00:24:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Mazzarins Demise
I'm sorry but when I read your topic, it was the only thing I thought of.
Objection! ------------
Originally by: Banana Torres Gurls are overrated, they nick your money and hurt your ears. Just so you can have limited access to their soft and squishy bits.
|
Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari Daikoku Fleet Shipyards
|
Posted - 2007.10.16 00:41:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan
Originally by: Winterblink The boiling blood thing comes from the thought that sudden exposure to the lack of pressure in space would cause the dissolved gases in your blood to expand rapidly (essentially a tech2 variant of the bends).
Which would blow.
Ah, but I'm not sure that the sudden decrease in pressure would be enough (proportionally) to create such a dramatic effect...obviously there would be significant damage to the orifices and make one's last several minutes very unpleasant, but I'm not sure it would be enough to make one's blood literally boil.
It should be very rapid. Consider that at the peak of mount everest the pressure is low enough that water boils at approximately 60 degrees c (so you can't make a decent cup of tea!!!). You drop this to for-all-intents-and-purposes a pressure free environment and deposit a liquid like say... blood... into it, all nicely pre-heated to just under 40 degrees c....
It boils really quickly.
~Ryoji Tanakama
Daikoku Fleet Shipyards |
Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.10.16 02:52:00 -
[106]
Photons more specifically xray and UV.
Love to the Assault Frigate! |
Dr Ming
Mindworks
|
Posted - 2007.10.16 03:24:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan
My References:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum#Outer_space 2. Unfortunately I was unable to find a source for this but an article exists on Slashdot.org 3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature#Temperature_of_the_vacuum 4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature#Second-law_definition_of_temperature 5. http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/jul01-02.asp
Wikipedia and Slashdot?
Yea, that combination of scholastic integrity is packed full of epic win.
|
Maglorre
|
Posted - 2007.10.16 03:38:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Maglorre on 16/10/2007 03:38:23 And just to be a little pedantic, it's "kelvin", not "degrees kelvin" as some of you have used.
Sorry, but the incorrect usage makes me hot under the collar.
|
Toohotforyou
|
Posted - 2007.10.16 06:09:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
The sun spews out these things called photons. On Earth, we only receive low energy photons because the high energy photons are filtered out by the ozone layer, the Van Allen radiation belt, and Earths magnetic field. In space, you don't have any of these nifty things. When a high energy photon hits a molecule of your DNA, DNA Damage can occur. Now, consider that the number of high energy photons that collide with your DNA molecules in space is OVER NINE THOUSAND!!?!?!?!, you body has a tough time repairing all that damage. When your body can't keep up, you can get cancer, the affected cells die or go irreversibly dormant.
If this happens enough, stuff happens and you die.
So what you're saying is EVE causes cancer right.
|
Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
|
Posted - 2007.10.16 06:57:00 -
[110]
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
Haha! Mephysto and I were trying to work out the equivalent amount of TNT required by the firing of one Antimatter L round, the other day. Counterpoint to that is the use of Nuclear and Depleted Uranium rounds for Projectiles and such. How the crews don't get instantly irradiated and die a horrible death at the start of combat I don't know.
How I can't tell you -there are some possibilities if you really want to know- but solar systems are filled with really, really nasty radiation that, when you're not protected by the atmosphere and magnetic fields of a planet, will kill you in a matter of weeks. It only takes a small fraction of the lethal dose to cause all sorts of birth defects and there are civilians spending there lives in space so they obviously have some type of highly affective radiation shielding. Presumably military ships are even further hardened so it wouldn't be at all unrealistic to assume that these ships can protect their crews from the ration of a few nukes, assuming that you accept that they can protect the crews from the usual background radiation.
|
|
Pudnucker
Boennerup Banden
|
Posted - 2007.10.16 07:11:00 -
[111]
It's a Sci-Fi internet spaceships game for ****'s sakes.
You log in, and do stuff.
l2physics
|
an internet
Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.10.16 07:13:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Snake Doctor
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Originally by: Winterblink Don't even get me started on the inefficiencies of having like 500 explosive devices to disconnect the front of the ship from the back.
You have other ideas to counter the inertia of a few thousand tons of steel in a matter of seconds?
It makes sense if you think about it... well infact it doesn't... you'd need ALOT MORE explosives.
One much larger explosive device, with a single point of failure instead of 500 points of failure?
Or how about a set of clamps and some...I dunno...engines. They're all the rage on spaceships today.
Engines can only output so much force. It'll take time to accelerate something as large as the bridge section of that ship. So no good as an emergency device.
One single, much larger explosive device, while applying the same force in the same timeframe, would work towards a much smaller area of the bridge. You'd have to built that area to basicly withstand a counterforce equal to the inertia of both parts of the ship.
Uhm well this isnt a huge problem. You simply put the guns on suspension with some sort of damp and/or feather system.
Depends on the system- Firing an XL railshot would do nearly nothing in terms of recoil, since the kinetic energy of the launch is transferred to an expense of electrical energy in the rails.
Arty's would pose quite a problem. A shot of XL arty would send your ship spinning wildly out of control, unless you had a retro to counter the blast. Even some sort of gimbaled mount is going to exert a force on the ship. You could mix a gimbaled mount and a buffer spring of some sort to soften the blow, but the shot may still send you flying.
Wrong, you'd always have recoil, no matter what the propulsion mechanism. Kinetic energy isn't transferred into electrical, electrical energy is used to provide a force, or electrical energy is converted into kinetic via a not so efficient process. But the rails are also pushed, with the exact force on the projectile, in the opposite direction of the round.
|
Cortei
|
Posted - 2007.10.16 08:56:00 -
[113]
Bah
If a ship got punctured and you weren't in a space suit...
1.) Mouth shut and air in lungs= ruptured lungs and drowning from blood.
2.) ruptured sinus cavities and air pockets (ie ear drums)
3.) frozen eyes/mouth going down to stomach/lungs
4.) You went into shock by step 1 or 2 depending on circumstances and are out by 3 at the latest due to the brain shutting down from the trauma. At most five seconds of pain and then nothingness. Death might follow minutes later, but you wouldn't care because you wouldn't know.
Want proof and some grisly info, look at the beginning diving suit autopsies from before they put in dead-switches that maintained pressure if the air pump shut off. They blacked out almost instantly from the shock of the pressure change. Sure their body ended up being sucked/pushed up the hose and died up to a minute later, but they already blacked out before that.
|
Adonis 4174
|
Posted - 2007.10.16 09:18:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Cortei Bah
If a ship got punctured and you weren't in a space suit...
1.) Mouth shut and air in lungs= ruptured lungs and drowning from blood.
Do you think you could keep your mouth shut under those forces? More likely it = air forced from your lungs through your mouth. ----- Visible Implants - good for so many occasions |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.10.16 09:30:00 -
[115]
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
Haha! Mephysto and I were trying to work out the equivalent amount of TNT required by the firing of one Antimatter L round, the other day. Counterpoint to that is the use of Nuclear and Depleted Uranium rounds for Projectiles and such. How the crews don't get instantly irradiated and die a horrible death at the start of combat I don't know.
radiation takes a few hours to kil the person. That is what DT is for, crew replacement.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Shadowfax2121
Gallente Black Lance Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.10.16 10:03:00 -
[116]
1. Event Horizon was a interesting movie.
2. Can someone please find the article for his second source for the large 'hole' that was found? I am quite interested in reading about this
|
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.10.16 10:29:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Shadowfax2121 1. Event Horizon was a interesting movie.
2. Can someone please find the article for his second source for the large 'hole' that was found? I am quite interested in reading about this
You realize you're just begging for someone to send you to goatse, right? :)
|
Washell Olivaw
|
Posted - 2007.10.16 11:27:00 -
[118]
Linkage
NASA scientist, backed up by NASA doctor, on various common misconceptions of space. Including the human body in a 0 pressure environment.
Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |