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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.15 19:48:00 -
[61]
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Originally by: Winterblink Don't even get me started on the inefficiencies of having like 500 explosive devices to disconnect the front of the ship from the back.
You have other ideas to counter the inertia of a few thousand tons of steel in a matter of seconds?
It makes sense if you think about it... well infact it doesn't... you'd need ALOT MORE explosives.
One much larger explosive device, with a single point of failure instead of 500 points of failure?
Or how about a set of clamps and some...I dunno...engines. They're all the rage on spaceships today. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
YunFu Yan
Yan Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.10.15 19:52:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Originally by: Winterblink Don't even get me started on the inefficiencies of having like 500 explosive devices to disconnect the front of the ship from the back.
You have other ideas to counter the inertia of a few thousand tons of steel in a matter of seconds?
It makes sense if you think about it... well infact it doesn't... you'd need ALOT MORE explosives.
One much larger explosive device, with a single point of failure instead of 500 points of failure?
Or how about a set of clamps and some...I dunno...engines. They're all the rage on spaceships today.
Engines can only output so much force. It'll take time to accelerate something as large as the bridge section of that ship. So no good as an emergency device.
One single, much larger explosive device, while applying the same force in the same timeframe, would work towards a much smaller area of the bridge. You'd have to built that area to basicly withstand a counterforce equal to the inertia of both parts of the ship.
Yan Enterprises - We mean business. |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.10.15 19:58:00 -
[63]
Possibly if we all just used an Infinite Improbability drive, things would be easier.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Metaller
Ocean Dynamics Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:14:00 -
[64]
"8 degree celsius"
dude you surely understood something wrong. you better listen to your physics lessons again. if space inside the boundaries of our solarsytem would have 8 degree celsius temperature, then the second law of thermodynamics would forbid any planet to be cooler than 8 degree celsius and every planet would be inhabitable.
would be cool to have though, holidays on uranus
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Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:18:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Snake Doctor on 15/10/2007 20:17:54
Originally by: Metaller "8 degree celsius"
dude you surely understood something wrong. you better listen to your physics lessons again. if space inside the boundaries of our solarsytem would have 8 degree celsius temperature, then the second law of thermodynamics would forbid any planet to be cooler than 8 degree celsius and every planet would be inhabitable.
would be cool to have though, holidays on uranus
Maybe he means 8*K?
8C is just a teeeeeeeeny bit high...
8*k= -265.something*C
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Metaller
Ocean Dynamics Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:18:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan
Originally by: Winterblink The boiling blood thing comes from the thought that sudden exposure to the lack of pressure in space would cause the dissolved gases in your blood to expand rapidly (essentially a tech2 variant of the bends).
Which would blow.
Ah, but I'm not sure that the sudden decrease in pressure would be enough (proportionally) to create such a dramatic effect...obviously there would be significant damage to the orifices and make one's last several minutes very unpleasant, but I'm not sure it would be enough to make one's blood literally boil.
yes it would be!!! ive seen that myself, tho not on a human, but trying to get a vacuum into a closed bottle with water inside will make the water boil, or even ice will go to steam even without bothering to be liquid before that. temperature!!!
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:19:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Snake Doctor Edited by: Snake Doctor on 15/10/2007 20:17:54
Originally by: Metaller "8 degree celsius"
dude you surely understood something wrong. you better listen to your physics lessons again. if space inside the boundaries of our solarsytem would have 8 degree celsius temperature, then the second law of thermodynamics would forbid any planet to be cooler than 8 degree celsius and every planet would be inhabitable.
would be cool to have though, holidays on uranus
Maybe he means 8*K?
8C is just a teeeeeeeeny bit high...
8*k= -265.something*C
I'm pretty sure this is what he meant. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
Metaller
Ocean Dynamics Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:19:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Snake Doctor Edited by: Snake Doctor on 15/10/2007 20:17:54
Originally by: Metaller "8 degree celsius"
dude you surely understood something wrong. you better listen to your physics lessons again. if space inside the boundaries of our solarsytem would have 8 degree celsius temperature, then the second law of thermodynamics would forbid any planet to be cooler than 8 degree celsius and every planet would be inhabitable.
would be cool to have though, holidays on uranus
Maybe he means 8*K?
8C is just a teeeeeeeeny bit high...
8*k= -265.something*C
yeah, thats what im thinking too, and 8 Kelvin is lethal
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:19:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Metaller "8 degree celsius"
dude you surely understood something wrong. you better listen to your physics lessons again. if space inside the boundaries of our solarsytem would have 8 degree celsius temperature, then the second law of thermodynamics would forbid any planet to be cooler than 8 degree celsius and every planet would be inhabitable.
would be cool to have though, holidays on uranus
He probably meant Kelvin. Man who knew this would get so... heated. :D
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Sylvia Lafayette
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:20:00 -
[70]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt Possibly if we all just used an Infinite Improbability drive, things would be easier.
WTB Infinite Improbability Drive for my Black ops Dominix
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:21:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Winterblink He probably meant Kelvin. Man who knew this would get so... heated. :D
I will spare you my wrath, but only because this thread is my creation and should be the proper place for campy humor. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:22:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Winterblink He probably meant Kelvin. Man who knew this would get so... heated. :D
I will spare you my wrath, but only because this thread is my creation and should be the proper place for campy humor.
I forgot you had your punny bone removed. :D
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Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:23:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Sylvia Lafayette
Originally by: An Anarchyyt Possibly if we all just used an Infinite Improbability drive, things would be easier.
WTB Infinite Improbability Drive for my Black ops Dominix
/WIN.
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Jimer Lins
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:23:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Winterblink He probably meant Kelvin. Man who knew this would get so... heated. :D
Now, let's keep the friction to a minimum.
-- EVE Glossary Exploration Video |
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:24:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Winterblink He probably meant Kelvin. Man who knew this would get so... heated. :D
I will spare you my wrath, but only because this thread is my creation and should be the proper place for campy humor.
I forgot you had your punny bone removed. :D
You know those scenes in bad animes where someone said something so ridiculous that everyone in the room comically collapses in a single frame? I just did that. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
Maltitol
Gallente Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:24:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Tarminic Edited by: Tarminic on 15/10/2007 18:24:26 I'd like to dedicate this pseudo-whine to Maltitol, whose 15 million ISk donation made it all possible.
Sadly it does not appear to be a hit on the scale of my previous attempts, but I consider it a success regardless.
Thank you kindly! I figured whining about space to ccp to change it would be hilarious,and it actually was :P
Thanks!
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Metaller
Ocean Dynamics Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:27:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Snake Doctor
Actually, in the case of direct sunlight, you're receive EM radiation and UV radiation. Photons aren't a worry, because you're long dead by then.
LOL
actually every EM radiation, is it UV, light, microwaves, gamma rays, x-rays consits of photons.
Im learning quantum mechanics for a big exam in 1.5 weeks. sorry to bother you guys with all that stuff
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:31:00 -
[78]
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
Haha! Mephysto and I were trying to work out the equivalent amount of TNT required by the firing of one Antimatter L round, the other day. Counterpoint to that is the use of Nuclear and Depleted Uranium rounds for Projectiles and such. How the crews don't get instantly irradiated and die a horrible death at the start of combat I don't know.
so how much tnt does it take to launch a round of antimatter to cover 250km instantly?
f=ma r2=r1 + vi*t+ 1/2*a*t^2
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:32:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
so how much tnt does it take to launch a round of antimatter to cover 250km instantly?
f=ma r2=r1 + vi*t+ 1/2*a*t^2
I think this was discussed in another thread...and it was a lot. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare |
Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2007.10.15 20:52:00 -
[80]
/cheers
for a thread full of hollywood movie science.
My apologies to the 2 or 3 posters in here that actually managed to get most of it right.
To the OP: All of the effects you mentioned are negligable to space ships under active power. Only stuff like the voyager space probes need to take it into account, since they're coasting along for billions of miles.
Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Acacia Everto
Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.15 21:10:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
so how much tnt does it take to launch a round of antimatter to cover 250km instantly?
f=ma r2=r1 + vi*t+ 1/2*a*t^2
I think this was discussed in another thread...and it was a lot.
I calculated it out for one of the projectile rounds in another thread. It ended up being on the order of the output of the all United State's nuclear reactors...for two weeks. Some massive amount of power.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.15 22:26:00 -
[82]
Originally by: YunFu Yan Having studied a few semesters of physics and always being interested in space and space travel I wanna give my 2 cents too...
Space IS cold.
What we feel and recognize as hot or cold is actually 'heat' leaving or entering our body. This happens according to the laws of thermodynamics which basicly say, that in a closed system different energy levels (temperature and pressure are the ones that matter in our case) smoothen out over time. The higher the diference between those levels, the faster the process occurs.
The oponents:
Pilot, 309 ŠK, 1 bar
vs
space, 8 ŠK, 0 bar
When exposed to the 'vacuum' a few things happen.
We have to consider the thermodynamics laws again cause this one is a bit tricky tricky. You'd actually think the different temperature levels would be the 1st thing to consider but thats not true. Due to the lack of a transfer medium (something to abosrb the heat from the pilots body) it's just not happening. So we're looking at more or less an isothermal process as the temerature 1st stays constant. What happens instead is, that the pressure inside of our poor pilots body tries to adapt. Liquids vaporize, gases expand... this is what was meant with 'blood boiling' probably. However the vaporization of a lquid or expansions of a gas cause it to cool down. (The same amount of particles suddenly has alot more space to move in, less collisions between particles occur, temperature drops.)
This could (speculation here) cause certain body fluids to vaporize 1st when the pressure adapts and at the same time freeze because of the resulting temperature drop.
So, after just a few seconds, our pilots skin would be frozen. The core temperature of his body would still be close to normal thou. But after the pressure adaption a large portion of his intern organs would be goo.
The 'exploding head' isn't going to happen... it'd be more like brain out of your ears and blood comming out of your eyes and face, freezing as soon as it exits the body (once again, this doesn't happen due to the difference in temperature but the difference in pressure).
Actually an unprotected (no spacesuit) human survives alot longer then most think when exposed to space. You dont explode, thats for sure. 1bar drop in pressure difference isnt good for the body sure but its not extreme enough to start brain fluids to rush out of your ears. A human can stay conscious for a minute or so in space and after losing it still be alive for up to several minutes. Ofcourse there will be health problems after this like "diving" sickness and frozen body parts etc.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.15 22:31:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Cosmosa Magellan or radiation poisoning.
eh?
Haha! Mephysto and I were trying to work out the equivalent amount of TNT required by the firing of one Antimatter L round, the other day. Counterpoint to that is the use of Nuclear and Depleted Uranium rounds for Projectiles and such. How the crews don't get instantly irradiated and die a horrible death at the start of combat I don't know.
so how much tnt does it take to launch a round of antimatter to cover 250km instantly?
f=ma r2=r1 + vi*t+ 1/2*a*t^2
Uhm this somehow doesnt make sense. You cant get anything instantly anywhere. Every particle that is capable of transporting information (bullets etc go into this category) is speed capped at light speed.
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Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.15 22:32:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: YunFu Yan Having studied a few semesters of physics and always being interested in space and space travel I wanna give my 2 cents too...
Space IS cold.
What we feel and recognize as hot or cold is actually 'heat' leaving or entering our body. This happens according to the laws of thermodynamics which basicly say, that in a closed system different energy levels (temperature and pressure are the ones that matter in our case) smoothen out over time. The higher the diference between those levels, the faster the process occurs.
The oponents:
Pilot, 309 ŠK, 1 bar
vs
space, 8 ŠK, 0 bar
When exposed to the 'vacuum' a few things happen.
We have to consider the thermodynamics laws again cause this one is a bit tricky tricky. You'd actually think the different temperature levels would be the 1st thing to consider but thats not true. Due to the lack of a transfer medium (something to abosrb the heat from the pilots body) it's just not happening. So we're looking at more or less an isothermal process as the temerature 1st stays constant. What happens instead is, that the pressure inside of our poor pilots body tries to adapt. Liquids vaporize, gases expand... this is what was meant with 'blood boiling' probably. However the vaporization of a lquid or expansions of a gas cause it to cool down. (The same amount of particles suddenly has alot more space to move in, less collisions between particles occur, temperature drops.)
This could (speculation here) cause certain body fluids to vaporize 1st when the pressure adapts and at the same time freeze because of the resulting temperature drop.
So, after just a few seconds, our pilots skin would be frozen. The core temperature of his body would still be close to normal thou. But after the pressure adaption a large portion of his intern organs would be goo.
The 'exploding head' isn't going to happen... it'd be more like brain out of your ears and blood comming out of your eyes and face, freezing as soon as it exits the body (once again, this doesn't happen due to the difference in temperature but the difference in pressure).
Actually an unprotected (no spacesuit) human survives alot longer then most think when exposed to space. You dont explode, thats for sure. 1bar drop in pressure difference isnt good for the body sure but its not extreme enough to start brain fluids to rush out of your ears. A human can stay conscious for a minute or so in space and after losing it still be alive for up to several minutes. Ofcourse there will be health problems after this like "diving" sickness and frozen body parts etc.
Don't forget to take into account an airlock decompression takes time and would be excruciating. The exploding heads come from that decompression, not a sudden vaccuum. If you're sucked out into space due to a hull breach, you may last longer. Also, you probably wont **** yourself until the VERY end (unless you lose your cool).
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.15 22:36:00 -
[85]
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Originally by: Winterblink Don't even get me started on the inefficiencies of having like 500 explosive devices to disconnect the front of the ship from the back.
You have other ideas to counter the inertia of a few thousand tons of steel in a matter of seconds?
It makes sense if you think about it... well infact it doesn't... you'd need ALOT MORE explosives.
One much larger explosive device, with a single point of failure instead of 500 points of failure?
Or how about a set of clamps and some...I dunno...engines. They're all the rage on spaceships today.
Engines can only output so much force. It'll take time to accelerate something as large as the bridge section of that ship. So no good as an emergency device.
One single, much larger explosive device, while applying the same force in the same timeframe, would work towards a much smaller area of the bridge. You'd have to built that area to basicly withstand a counterforce equal to the inertia of both parts of the ship.
Uhm well this isnt a huge problem. You simply put the guns on suspension with some sort of damp and/or feather system.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.10.15 22:38:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 15/10/2007 22:38:55
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Don't forget to take into account an airlock decompression takes time and would be excruciating. The exploding heads come from that decompression, not a sudden vaccuum. If you're sucked out into space due to a hull breach, you may last longer. Also, you probably wont **** yourself until the VERY end (unless you lose your cool).
No there are no heads exploding during a slow decompression either. A 1 bar decompression isnt enough.
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Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.15 22:44:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Originally by: Winterblink Don't even get me started on the inefficiencies of having like 500 explosive devices to disconnect the front of the ship from the back.
You have other ideas to counter the inertia of a few thousand tons of steel in a matter of seconds?
It makes sense if you think about it... well infact it doesn't... you'd need ALOT MORE explosives.
One much larger explosive device, with a single point of failure instead of 500 points of failure?
Or how about a set of clamps and some...I dunno...engines. They're all the rage on spaceships today.
Engines can only output so much force. It'll take time to accelerate something as large as the bridge section of that ship. So no good as an emergency device.
One single, much larger explosive device, while applying the same force in the same timeframe, would work towards a much smaller area of the bridge. You'd have to built that area to basicly withstand a counterforce equal to the inertia of both parts of the ship.
Uhm well this isnt a huge problem. You simply put the guns on suspension with some sort of damp and/or feather system.
Depends on the system- Firing an XL railshot would do nearly nothing in terms of recoil, since the kinetic energy of the launch is transferred to an expense of electrical energy in the rails.
Arty's would pose quite a problem. A shot of XL arty would send your ship spinning wildly out of control, unless you had a retro to counter the blast. Even some sort of gimbaled mount is going to exert a force on the ship. You could mix a gimbaled mount and a buffer spring of some sort to soften the blow, but the shot may still send you flying.
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.15 22:45:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 15/10/2007 22:38:55
Originally by: YunFu Yan
Don't forget to take into account an airlock decompression takes time and would be excruciating. The exploding heads come from that decompression, not a sudden vaccuum. If you're sucked out into space due to a hull breach, you may last longer. Also, you probably wont **** yourself until the VERY end (unless you lose your cool).
No there are no heads exploding during a slow decompression either. A 1 bar decompression isnt enough.
Therin lies the problem- you'd suffocate long before anything else.
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2007.10.15 22:50:00 -
[89]
This is the big secret of Eve.
The Eve gate opened into another universe where the laws of physics work a little differently. Nobody observed this fact since by the time they got a chance it had collapsed and plunged their civilisations into a new dark age and when they emerged they had forgotten all that olde-worlde Earth physics. All anyone remembered was how it worked in this universe. ----- Visible Implants - good for so many occasions |
Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.15 23:00:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Adonis 4174 This is the big secret of Eve.
The Eve gate opened into another universe where the laws of physics work a little differently. Nobody observed this fact since by the time they got a chance it had collapsed and plunged their civilisations into a new dark age and when they emerged they had forgotten all that olde-worlde Earth physics. All anyone remembered was how it worked in this universe.
/win.
/no further arguement
Rifter Flight Manual! |
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