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Xiaodown
Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.24 21:56:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Rei Sara Maybe it would take more than "a few",
Well, if you're talking about neutralizing a mothership - it wouldn't be that hard. Seriously.
10 battleships (as per my plan) x 5 heavy and 3x medium neuts a piece = (5x800) and (3x150) cap neutralized. See where I'm going with this? One ship, one volley of neut = 4450 cap gone. Ten ships, set up the same way = 44,500 cap gone. Alpha strike.
Even if it's only cap stable 2 volleys, that's 89,000 cap gone in 11 seconds. Base cap on a Nyx is 67,500. You will COMPLETELY CAP OUT A MOTHERSHIP in 11 seconds with 10 neutralizing battleships.
Bye bye tank, bye bye cyno. Hello forum notoriety.
~X
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I DJ on BoB Radio! Tune in Thursday, 10PM New York time (0200 friday evetime) to hear my totally awesome mix of ska, punk, and ownage. |
Xiaodown
Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.24 22:01:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Captian Internet
1. Officer Smart Bombs 2. 3. Since you are such a master battle strategist oh wait who's alliance takes part in MOM camps in Aunenen(sp)wouldn't said strategy be null as you know what they are doing? 4. If you are so tough lets see you put this plan in action I want to see a wreck
Hey, I never said we weren't pirates. Check the TRI killboard; I was there last night with the Nyx popping everything that came through the gate. We were LOOKING FOR A CHALLENGE. Did you miss the part where we popped an officer fitted nightmare and a dread in 10 minutes?
If you manage to kill a mothership that someone is actively piloting, and not like a dumbass, in low sec, you did good. Period, whether it's from my alliance or not.
Oh, and officer smartbombs... yeah? So? Kills the frigs, as I said before. You gotta keep the frigs in there, warping in so he gets bumped and can't align. They're going to die. If you have enough of them, it would still accomplish the goal.
Honestly, though - if you just warped the cap-hungry battleships in, and I just ran the numbers - do you think a Mom can align for warp in 10 seconds or less? Cause, you can alpha hit it so that it can't cyno (44,500 cap, see above post). If you can manage to keep it so it can't align to warp for another 11 seconds... what's the cost to initiate warp in one of those things? What's it cost to keep the smartbombs running?
If you cap out a mothership, it's pretty vulnerable.
~Xiao
Xiao --
I DJ on BoB Radio! Tune in Thursday, 10PM New York time (0200 friday evetime) to hear my totally awesome mix of ska, punk, and ownage. |
Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.08.24 22:11:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Xiaodown
Originally by: Captian Internet
1. Officer Smart Bombs 2. 3. Since you are such a master battle strategist oh wait who's alliance takes part in MOM camps in Aunenen(sp)wouldn't said strategy be null as you know what they are doing? 4. If you are so tough lets see you put this plan in action I want to see a wreck
Hey, I never said we weren't pirates. Check the TRI killboard; I was there last night with the Nyx popping everything that came through the gate. We were LOOKING FOR A CHALLENGE. Did you miss the part where we popped an officer fitted nightmare and a dread in 10 minutes?
If you manage to kill a mothership that someone is actively piloting, and not like a dumbass, in low sec, you did good. Period, whether it's from my alliance or not.
Oh, and officer smartbombs... yeah? So? Kills the frigs, as I said before. You gotta keep the frigs in there, warping in so he gets bumped and can't align. They're going to die. If you have enough of them, it would still accomplish the goal.
Honestly, though - if you just warped the cap-hungry battleships in, and I just ran the numbers - do you think a Mom can align for warp in 10 seconds or less? Cause, you can alpha hit it so that it can't cyno (44,500 cap, see above post). If you can manage to keep it so it can't align to warp for another 11 seconds... what's the cost to initiate warp in one of those things? What's it cost to keep the smartbombs running?
If you cap out a mothership, it's pretty vulnerable.
~Xiao
Xiao
The amount of frigs you are proposing are quite high as the smartbombs would pop the frigs and their wrecks
also I was just using you as an example also said pilot you mentioned was a tard
But what I want to see is your method I want to see you do it.
Prove me wrong please
Alpha train an MS and cyno in death for it. You have the resources, you have the plan, now please stand and deliver.
If you prove me wrong I will kindly stfu
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Shar'Tuk TheHated
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Posted - 2007.08.24 23:02:00 -
[64]
Heres an idea.. I think maybe once they enter low sec they should no longer be immune to ewar. Maybe to abide by some laws or something making it illegal and it shuts off while in sec space. Once in null sec space its back on since its corp law. Maybe on top you could have a highly illegal "outlaw" mod that hacks it and turns it back on to some degree but you cant stay in any one place x amount of time or concord will show up. They do need some type of protection on one hand since they are a huge investment but on the same hand they shouldnt be used as a solo pwn mobile. Anyhow its just an idea please not too many flames eh?
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Hayah Theos
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Posted - 2007.08.24 23:04:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Tunak
Originally by: Hayah Theos
Out of touch, YOU ARE!
Tell me again how you achieve the above without T2 BPO's or Capital Ship "NPC market exploit haulers", none of which is available to the AVERAGE pilot of Eve. Then tell us all about how you don't have a death-grip on 10/10 Complexes...
You people are so transparent and self-serving. Your very response bespeaks your BORGness...
Idiot. Did you miss the part where I said less than 6M SP? Did you miss the part where I said using only a shuttle. Both those points mean that T2 BPO or Capital ships are not needed. 10/10 complexes? No one farms those anymore. CCP nerfed them. Please try and know something about the game.
As for how. I already told you. I'll use smaller words. Lvl 4 courier missions pay 2.7M a mission. You can do them in a shuttle. No skills needed. Nothing ever risked. isk is free. Anyone can be "rich".
************** 100 million a day divided by 2.7 million per mission is about 37 missions per day to do that.... Simple math betrays you. I'm not sure anyone reading this believes you. Unless you have multiple accounts to do nothing but run Courier missions, which sounds very much like an exploit to me.
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LeHarujm Fah
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Posted - 2007.08.24 23:08:00 -
[66]
Edited by: LeHarujm Fah on 24/08/2007 23:08:19 Why can't you just neut him? That's not impossible.
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Viridian Sky
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Posted - 2007.08.24 23:09:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Viridian Sky on 24/08/2007 23:09:36
Originally by: Captian Internet
Originally by: Xiaodown
Originally by: Captian Internet
*snip*
Hey, I never said we weren't pirates. Check the TRI killboard; I was there last night with the Nyx popping everything that came through the gate. We were LOOKING FOR A CHALLENGE. Did you miss the part where we popped an officer fitted nightmare and a dread in 10 minutes?
If you manage to kill a mothership that someone is actively piloting, and not like a dumbass, in low sec, you did good. Period, whether it's from my alliance or not.
Oh, and officer smartbombs... yeah? So? Kills the frigs, as I said before. You gotta keep the frigs in there, warping in so he gets bumped and can't align. They're going to die. If you have enough of them, it would still accomplish the goal.
Honestly, though - if you just warped the cap-hungry battleships in, and I just ran the numbers - do you think a Mom can align for warp in 10 seconds or less? Cause, you can alpha hit it so that it can't cyno (44,500 cap, see above post). If you can manage to keep it so it can't align to warp for another 11 seconds... what's the cost to initiate warp in one of those things? What's it cost to keep the smartbombs running?
If you cap out a mothership, it's pretty vulnerable.
~Xiao
Xiao
The amount of frigs you are proposing are quite high as the smartbombs would pop the frigs and their wrecks
also I was just using you as an example also said pilot you mentioned was a tard
But what I want to see is your method I want to see you do it.
Prove me wrong please
Alpha train an MS and cyno in death for it. You have the resources, you have the plan, now please stand and deliver.
If you prove me wrong I will kindly stfu
What if I tell you that LV did that to an RA (I /think/ it was RA) mom. It was ratting and then got jumped by a bunch of neut/nos BSes and died. Anyone who claims it's impossible to kill a mom is just mad that they can't figure out how to do it on his or her own. It is very possible and has been done before. Bump + neut == win (as long as you have competent pilots on board).
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Cyan Nuevo
Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships
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Posted - 2007.08.24 23:14:00 -
[68]
Motherships in lowsec is indeed a problem, but fixing it is not "as simple as" making the affected by warp jammers and webs. --- Proud Amarr pilot.
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.08.24 23:19:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Viridian Sky
What if I tell you that LV did that to an RA (I /think/ it was RA) mom. It was ratting and then got jumped by a bunch of neut/nos BSes and died. Anyone who claims it's impossible to kill a mom is just mad that they can't figure out how to do it on his or her own. It is very possible and has been done before. Bump + neut == win (as long as you have competent pilots on board).
Proof or STFU
Text is cheap
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Shar'Tuk TheHated
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Posted - 2007.08.24 23:21:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Shar''Tuk TheHated on 24/08/2007 23:23:36
Originally by: Cyan Nuevo Motherships in lowsec is indeed a problem, but fixing it is not "as simple as" making the affected by warp jammers and webs.
well if they arent immune to ewar then they would/could be in trouble rather quickly. Now thinking about my idea above the "outlaw" mod would have to be limited in use by time and how long it lasted and possible how quick concord would pick up on it scaling up with system sec.
edit. in effect it would be a oh sh** button and nothing you would turn on and leave on.
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RigelKentaurus
Flying Reblochons Caldari Deep Space Industral
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Posted - 2007.08.24 23:26:00 -
[71]
Edited by: RigelKentaurus on 24/08/2007 23:26:21
Originally by: Tunak As for how. I already told you. I'll use smaller words. Lvl 4 courier missions pay 2.7M a mission. You can do them in a shuttle. No skills needed. Nothing ever risked. isk is free. Anyone can be "rich".
2.7M a mission, with a shuttle?! Where?!
All my lvl 4 agents must be greedy then, in every lvl 4 courier mission I've done I had to carry over 5000 m3 of stuff, and the reward was around 400k isk.
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Nathomos
Minmatar Magellan Exploration and Survey Zzz
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Posted - 2007.08.25 00:35:00 -
[72]
It is so easy to avoid getting killed by capital ships in low sec, if you can't you need to learn some tactics...
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.08.25 00:38:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Nathomos It is so easy to avoid getting killed by capital ships in low sec, if you can't you need to learn some tactics...
Thats not the issue
The problem is how do you kill super caps in lowsec?
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar Sicarri Covenant
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Posted - 2007.08.25 00:49:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Captian Internet
Originally by: Nathomos It is so easy to avoid getting killed by capital ships in low sec, if you can't you need to learn some tactics...
Thats not the issue
The problem is how do you kill super caps in lowsec?
You gotta wait till the pilot falls asleep
Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking ~Liz Kali
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Reem Fairchild
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Posted - 2007.08.25 01:19:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 25/08/2007 01:24:26
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny If you are going to compare a Mothership to a Nimitz... the Nimitz is a force on it's own, there's no way to sink it and it has on board weapons that autonomously engage incoming threats... so lets give motherships capital sized defender missiles
Also the Nimitz is more of a titan... it boosts the fleet around it and assigns targets
Motherships are fine as is.... get smarter
A real life aircraft carrier like the Nimitz is easy to kill if it's on its own and undefended. It's aircrafts can do a fair bit in keeping bombers and submarines off of it, but not nearly enough when a naval bomber or submarine firing missiles from extremely long ranges can kill it. Which is why it would never go anywhere on its own. A carrier group is all about the carrier and the firepower it can deliver with its aircraft. Practically every other ship in the group (whether it's for airdefense or ASW) is just there to keep it alive.
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Brunswick2
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.25 01:21:00 -
[76]
Kill its fighters
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.08.25 01:25:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Captian Internet on 25/08/2007 01:25:31
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Originally by: Captian Internet
Originally by: Nathomos It is so easy to avoid getting killed by capital ships in low sec, if you can't you need to learn some tactics...
Thats not the issue
The problem is how do you kill super caps in lowsec?
You gotta wait till the pilot falls asleep
¼_¼
Originally by: Brunswick2 Kill its fighters
Read the op
The question is how to kill the ship not its ability to shoot
Yes shooting drones on drone ships cut out dps but if you've got the cash for an ms you've got the cash for more fighters
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Rastigan
Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.25 01:28:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Rastigan on 25/08/2007 01:28:44
Originally by: Xiaodown
Bye bye tank, bye bye cyno. Hello forum notoriety. ~X
Cant you just initiate warp with very little to no cap ?
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Reem Fairchild
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Posted - 2007.08.25 01:36:00 -
[79]
The solution is very easy. Capital ships can't go in to high-sec. Super capitals are a big step up from capitals. The one thing you (nowadays) are able to use to kill supercapitals (and then you still need a sizable fleet with capitals to bring it down) can only be used in 0.0.
So, you shouldn't be able to bring super capitals into low-sec.
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Cpt Placeholder
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Posted - 2007.08.25 01:38:00 -
[80]
I was toying around with EFT and got the Nyx to a (FULL >80k) cap recharge time of 11.7 sec. That is with cap implants and best officer CPRs and cap rechargers.
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7shining7one7
Quafe Paladins
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Posted - 2007.08.25 01:46:00 -
[81]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 25/08/2007 01:54:08 Very interesting post. some nice comments. and a subject i've given a lot of thought hearing about this more and more.
I've read the entire post and i want to do my best to sum up what has been talked about, and you are free to correct any / all mistakes. And then i would like to give my oppinion on the matter, so without further to do, here goes.
Super Capitals should be hard to kill, they take tremendous effort in many areas to get and maintain, and should thusly also be rewarded with superiority.
Bubbles are key tools to stop them. Bubbles cannot be used in low sec.
Nerfing capital ships across the board as the OP suggests, i'll humbly oppinionate will be missing the point.
Some might add to that, by arguing that doing so would create an imbalance between the effort to get one, and the superiority payoff, and i wouldn't disagree.
The crux of the matter as I see it is this:
The tools to take down Super Capitals are not in low sec, only 0.0.
Super Capitals are thusly nigh impossible to kill in low sec relative to how hard they are to kill in 0.0
Many agree that Super Capitals camping low sec is a "lame idea", and i wouldn't disagree.
Without alteration, low sec "control" might in the future be determined mostly on who fields the most super capitals. Simply because the 0.0 tools to help kill them aren't there.
Is this really what we want low sec battles to be reduced to?
I think it is ok to have Super Capitals in low sec, it takes tremendous effort of those that have them to actually manage it. and this should offcourse be respected. But.. if super capitals, that offcourse truly belong in 0.0 warfare are to be in low sec, it would stand to reason that you would be granted the same tools to kill them as you have in 0.0.
A possible solution:
Enable bubbles in low sec, but have the low sec bubbles only working on Super Capitals and no other ships (go through effect - immaterial for other ships).
This would:
Be moderately easy for ccp to implement Preserve the current game mechanics for super capitals low sec and 0.0. Enable people to kill super capitals in low sec in the same way they would go about it in 0.0.
Hope you fancy the idea.
Cheers & fly safe
7
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar Sicarri Covenant
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Posted - 2007.08.25 02:39:00 -
[82]
Screw discriminant bubbles... give us straight up interdictor ability in lowsec... YARRRRRRRRRR
Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking ~Liz Kali
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Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2007.08.25 02:53:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Jezala No problem here. Just stick to Tux's advice, bump and NOS...bump and NOS baby.
It wasn't Tux... It was CCP LeMonde in that infamous post. Credit Tux with being way smarter than that.
Ah yeah CCP LeMonde aka Vegeta, a mothership pilot with a vested interest in saying that supercaps are killable while they aren't practically (in lowsec).
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Lowanaera
Amarr Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.25 03:01:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Captian Internet
Originally by: Nathomos It is so easy to avoid getting killed by capital ships in low sec, if you can't you need to learn some tactics...
Thats not the issue
The problem is how do you kill super caps in lowsec?
That's really the key point the "it's fine, ltp" parrots are missing. What was the imbalance with dual-MWD BS? What was the imbalance with WCSed combat ships? What was the imbalance with nano-BS? Not having too much DPS, not being able to kill anything they come across, it was lack of risk. Engaging in combat should ALWAYS carry risk. Being able to engage, and then disengage with impunity is very much broken, and that's what motherships are able to do in low-sec. It doesn't matter if it's easy to avoid them, it doesn't matter if their DPS isn't exceptional, the fact that they can disengage at will with no recourse available to stop it is broken.
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kionlol
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Posted - 2007.08.25 03:15:00 -
[85]
for sure smartbombing nyx is lol, I have been killed at the low sec pass from amarr empire to matard one and lost 500m cargo :D
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.08.25 03:26:00 -
[86]
Originally by: kionlol for sure smartbombing nyx is lol, I have been killed at the low sec pass from amarr empire to matard one and lost 500m cargo :D
Thats just a dumb move
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falcinious
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Posted - 2007.08.25 04:01:00 -
[87]
Originally by: RigelKentaurus Edited by: RigelKentaurus on 24/08/2007 23:26:21
Originally by: Tunak As for how. I already told you. I'll use smaller words. Lvl 4 courier missions pay 2.7M a mission. You can do them in a shuttle. No skills needed. Nothing ever risked. isk is free. Anyone can be "rich".
2.7M a mission, with a shuttle?! Where?!
All my lvl 4 agents must be greedy then, in every lvl 4 courier mission I've done I had to carry over 5000 m3 of stuff, and the reward was around 400k isk.
The ceo of my old corp would run courier missions for devolle labs (sp?) for gallente with 90% of them being in a shuttle. I dont know how much he made per mission though.
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ForumPosterAlt
HERRO KITTY
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Posted - 2007.08.25 04:38:00 -
[88]
Better idea: make fighters undeployable in lowsec. Then they're just overpriced dominixes.
Because posting on the forums is serious business. |
Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.25 05:19:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Xiaodown
HOW TO TAKE DOWN A LOW SEC MOM
NEEDED: 5 guys in dreads 15 guys in frigates 10 guys in battleships with as many heavy neuts as possible, and bunches of cap boosters / cap rechargers 5 snipers in battleships, with a 150km warp-in point.
PLAN: Warp in the frigates, slowly at first, then ever faster. Make sure everyone's death clone is in system, so that they can just grab another noobship and undock again. FLY INTO THE SMARTBOMBS AND LET THEM POP YOUR SHIP, get out with your pod if you can (remember to buy clones if not).
Once the wrecks start to pile up, keep the frigs coming, warp in the battleships. Make sure you hit him with a hell of an alpha Cap hit. I mean, drain it. Get it below jump levels in the first try. Keep it there. Also, warp in the snipers to pop drones and fighters. They're just cruisers, 5 Rokhs should be able to two-volley a fighter without much of a problme.
Once he can't warp because of the frigs that are constantly in the way, and he can't cyno out cause of the cap issues, warp the dreads in, go to siege mode, and he should go down in 2-3 minutes.
------
Now, there's a nerf coming where everyone will just pass through biomass and wrecks, which is why you got to keep the frigs coming, so that there are actual ships around him.
~Xiao
1) Wrecks will soon be immaterial and stop alignment. 2) After he kilsl a few BS he will cyno out because you will need a ton more than 10 bs to neutralize him and KEEP him below jump cap. He will slaughter those neut BSes as they run out of cap for their tank and just laugh at the dreads. If you get enough force in to hurt him, he cynos.
Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken! |
Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.08.25 06:08:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Sakura Nihil on 25/08/2007 06:13:11 Related news.
I agree though, these things are virtually unkillable in lowsec...
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