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Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
261
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 20:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
...on the war against the non-humans?
I see more bots now than ever before and there is no sign of it slowing down. They destroy the mineral market, PLEX market due to using it to play for free, I see massive armies of Tengus farming high sec missions, they destroy the belt ratting out in null space, is there no place left that is not tainted by these things? When are the actual players who are at the keyboard going to see some real effort from CCP to be rid of these things?
A dev blog is great, but when it is not backed up with real action; what is the point?
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ElQuirko
The Demonfuge Malevolent Fan Club
204
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 20:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
TL;DR
Man up |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1120
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 20:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
they are on forums. All important EVE people dont play EVE, they pay subscription and write on forums. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
283
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 20:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nerf high sec Incursion rewards ? |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1120
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 20:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Nerf high sec Incursion rewards ?
Yep the only "content" which is not flooded by bots.. sounds reasonable. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
380
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 20:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Remove local or delay it.
That's the only tool we need to take matters into our own hands. A squad of Thrashers using wormholes to get into deep null would be able to wreak such havoc on bots - by the time the bot operator pushes his fat girlfriend off his lap the wolfpack is already into the next system.
Now the real question is, if CCP is not really going to do anything substantial about it, would they at LEAST give us, the players, a means to do something about it?
There also needs to be a crackdown on those who purchase ISK with RMT. Sorry but you have to get the problem solved on BOTH ends. Eliminate the need to do this, like killing off all of the drug addicts, OR make it all perfectly legal.
That the game requires a grind to get anywhere is a breakdown of the concept. But this has already been addressed. People think "you need ISK to finance your leet PVP" when it's proven that good skills and good fittings say otherwise.
|
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Ponies for the Ethical Treatment of Asteroids
226
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 20:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Remove local or delay it.
That's the only tool we need to take matters into our own hands. A squad of Thrashers using wormholes to get into deep null would be able to wreak such havoc on bots - by the time the bot operator pushes his fat girlfriend off his lap the wolfpack is already into the next system.
Now the real question is, if CCP is not really going to do anything substantial about it, would they at LEAST give us, the players, a means to do something about it?
There also needs to be a crackdown on those who purchase ISK with RMT. Sorry but you have to get the problem solved on BOTH ends. Eliminate the need to do this, like killing off all of the drug addicts, OR make it all perfectly legal.
That the game requires a grind to get anywhere is a breakdown of the concept. But this has already been addressed. People think "you need ISK to finance your leet PVP" when it's proven that good skills and good fittings say otherwise.
I've been saying it for years.... remove concord and let come what may |
Valei Khurelem
House Khurelem
49
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 20:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
What we need is for high sec players to have a chance at invading 0.0, as of now it really is just a bunch of chokepoints purely designed for ganking fleets. |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
59
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 20:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'd agree with the OP
I'm saddened every time I visit jita, that CCP won't get of there A**** and ban people using bots to spam local.
Not really bothered about the scamming but if CCP sent a GM there for 1 hour a day and banned anyone who spams the channel and is uncontactable by private convo, that would be a start, frankly they don't seem to give a toss.
Given that I'm pretty sure the rest of there 'policy against bots' is just PR Bull, if they can't even do the simplest thing to start to address the problem.
Why, and I know they fervently deny it but, $$$'s , why should they put time and effort into either coming up with better serverside checking or even actually get into the game and scout about, when at the end of the day there going to cost themselves $1000's a month.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
59
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 20:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
-- Edit double post mistook quote for edit sorry --
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
381
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 20:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:What we need is for high sec players to have a chance at invading 0.0, as of now it really is just a bunch of chokepoints purely designed for ganking fleets.
Well that's a chance for me to once more push my desire to see the usual "point to point dialed in warp" such as what you see done in more famous sci-fi.
But honestly I know it's not going to happen. I simply make that proposal to shut up the cry-babies in null who want CCP to force more people out there through game changes. It exposes that fact that yes they want more people out there, but on THEIR terms. Being able to dial in a point to point warp is moving to 0.0 on your own terms, and they don't like that. They only want renters, targets, or cannon fodder - that's their terms. If you could dial in a warp to any point, that's going on your own terms, and would actually require the nulldwellers to use combat probes, form patrols, and make actual use of all those intel tools that they tell everybody else to use.
This, to a point, does expose the botters too. Botting can be done safely on the null side of the Great Wall of Carebear. That with the NAP fest makes 0.0 a bigger botters heaven than high sec.
The mechanic to get past The Wall already exists, in wormholes - and the Tier 3 battle cruiser would be quite capable of going through most if not all wormholes. So it's already possible to bypass The Wall.
It's local that bot scripts rely on to instantly dock up or warp to a SS and cloak the moment a non-blue appears in the system. I really wonder if the NAP-fest - something that we would not think could be possible in a "destroy everything sandbox game" - has financial motivation and that could well be the motivation of RMT, as if seedy mafioso types who could care less about the game saw money to be made and worked their way into major null alliances.
Also makes me wonder if removing or delaying local means a horses head will appear in Himar's bed.
Indeed the ONE THING that could put an end to 0.0 botting, the removal or delay of local, is not the one thing getting implemented. Make me go "hmmmm".
|
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
74
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 20:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
While I agree with the OP, the sad fact is CCP is going to be taking subscription revenue any way they can get it for the foreseeable future.
Maybe you should lobby your CSM "representatives"?
/that's the joke. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Kuronaga
Controlled Substance
48
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 20:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sorry, but CCP security division has been fired in the 20%.
They have subsequently been replaced with bots. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
371
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 21:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Remove local or delay it. Ganker spotted.
Valei Khurelem wrote:What we need is for high sec players to have a chance at invading 0.0, as of now it really is just a bunch of chokepoints purely designed for ganking fleets. If "chokepoints" is all that's stopping you from "invading 0.0", then give up now. You're way too pathetic at warfare to get anywhere.
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:who could care less You mean "couldn't care less". If you could care less, why don't you?
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Also makes me wonder if removing or delaying local means a horses head will appear in Himar's bed.
Indeed the ONE THING that could put an end to 0.0 botting, the removal or delay of local, is not the one thing getting implemented. Make me go "hmmmm". Ganker spotted. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
656
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 21:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Valei Khurelem wrote:What we need is for high sec players to have a chance at invading 0.0, as of now it really is just a bunch of chokepoints purely designed for ganking fleets. Well that's a chance for me to once more push my desire to see the usual "point to point dialed in warp" such as what you see done in more famous sci-fi. But honestly I know it's not going to happen. I simply make that proposal to shut up the cry-babies in null who want CCP to force more people out there through game changes. It exposes that fact that yes they want more people out there, but on THEIR terms. Being able to dial in a point to point warp is moving to 0.0 on your own terms, and they don't like that. They only want renters, targets, or cannon fodder - that's their terms. If you could dial in a warp to any point, that's going on your own terms, and would actually require the nulldwellers to use combat probes, form patrols, and make actual use of all those intel tools that they tell everybody else to use. This, to a point, does expose the botters too. Botting can be done safely on the null side of the Great Wall of Carebear. That with the NAP fest makes 0.0 a bigger botters heaven than high sec. The mechanic to get past The Wall already exists, in wormholes - and the Tier 3 battle cruiser would be quite capable of going through most if not all wormholes. So it's already possible to bypass The Wall. It's local that bot scripts rely on to instantly dock up or warp to a SS and cloak the moment a non-blue appears in the system. I really wonder if the NAP-fest - something that we would not think could be possible in a "destroy everything sandbox game" - has financial motivation and that could well be the motivation of RMT, as if seedy mafioso types who could care less about the game saw money to be made and worked their way into major null alliances. Also makes me wonder if removing or delaying local means a horses head will appear in Himar's bed. Indeed the ONE THING that could put an end to 0.0 botting, the removal or delay of local, is not the one thing getting implemented. Make me go "hmmmm".
Cheap bot scripts rely on local, good quality bot scripts do not.
Revenge should not stop at the ship!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
371
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 21:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
And how many bots are in nullsec vs hisec? |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians
724
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 21:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:And how many bots are in nullsec vs hisec?
same amount. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
Topaz Sky
15
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 21:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: Cheap bot scripts rely on local, good quality bot scripts do not.
Ammzi wrote:Lord Zim wrote:And how many bots are in nullsec vs hisec? same amount.
How did you two become so educate?
|
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
263
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 21:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:...on the war against the non-humans?
I see more bots now than ever before
A couple points:
1) Not everything with a mining laser is a bot 2) Not everyone who doesn't feel like talking to you is a bot 3) Not everyone you report as a bot is a bot 4) You are free to load up a tier 3 BC, a tempest, a disco geddon or any other suitable ship and gank the crap out of them. |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
59
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 22:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:...on the war against the non-humans?
I see more bots now than ever before A couple points: 1) Not everything with a mining laser is a bot 2) Not everyone who doesn't feel like talking to you is a bot 3) Not everyone you report as a bot is a bot 4) You are free to load up a tier 3 BC, a tempest, a disco geddon or any other suitable ship and gank the crap out of them.
Just one point really what has any of that got to do with the fact CCP won't pull there finger out.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
|
Widemouth Deepthroat
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 22:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
how do you gank the crap out of tengus that make a few hundred mil a day ratting 23/7 in 0.0 which warp to safe the second any hostile enters local and are immune to bubbles? Using a blue alt is too much work.
Are we allowed to make a list of botters and post it on the forum? |
Opertone
Signal 7
68
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 22:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
employ Valve to make ENGINE that spots botting. Or contact even balance for free tips.
Hire someone well know for bot termination. You pay for servers in London. Now you'll need bot hunters as your business grows. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
232
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 22:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
delay local in nullsec. make it so it takes 2-5minutes to appear in local ( depending on sec level?) this means a solo stealth bomber could potentially hit some bots. |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
59
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 22:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
People this really has nothing to do with Low sec vs High sec or what tactics playes can use to gank bots.
It has everything to do with CCP once again not living up to there own press.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
453
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 22:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:delay local in nullsec. make it so it takes 2-5minutes to appear in local ( depending on sec level?) this means a solo stealth bomber could potentially hit some bots.
And nullsec would be nothing but bots afterwards. BAD IDEA |
Widemouth Deepthroat
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 22:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
1min would be fine, perhaps even 30s. That would hardly do anything to active pvers. They'd still get intel on everyone traveling through their space (takes longer than 1min to travel across most systems). They'd have to abandon uncompleted anomalies to avoid login traps but that would be a minor annoyance. Bots on the other hand would be completed screwed. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
453
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 22:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
Widemouth Deepthroat wrote:1min would be fine, perhaps even 30s. That would hardly do anything to active pvers. They'd still get intel on everyone traveling through their space (takes longer than 1min to travel across most systems). They'd have to abandon uncompleted anomalies to avoid login traps but that would be a minor annoyance. Bots on the other hand would be completed screwed.
No they would not. Bots would move to another system. And bot with more cheap ships fit to be destroyed often. Meanwhile active players say "fux this" and go either to incursions or another game.
You know how fast a properly fitted tackler can get into a system and have you pointed? Seconds. |
Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
61
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 22:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
Personally I like the bots, not because of the RMT or mineral price depreciation or any of that. I like them because they cause epic levels of whinage on the forums.
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Widemouth Deepthroat wrote:1min would be fine, perhaps even 30s. That would hardly do anything to active pvers. They'd still get intel on everyone traveling through their space (takes longer than 1min to travel across most systems). They'd have to abandon uncompleted anomalies to avoid login traps but that would be a minor annoyance. Bots on the other hand would be completed screwed. No they would not. Bots would move to another system. And bot with more cheap ships fit to be destroyed often. Meanwhile active players say "fux this" and go either to incursions or another game. You know how fast a properly fitted tackler can get into a system and have you pointed? Seconds.
Some times you really get the impression the bots are smarter and more able to survive in EVE than some of the players. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
371
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 22:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Opertone wrote:employ Valve to make ENGINE that spots botting. Or contact even balance for free tips. Nitwit spotted.
Herping yourDerp wrote:delay local in nullsec. make it so it takes 2-5minutes to appear in local ( depending on sec level?) this means a solo stealth bomber could potentially hit some bots. Bad ganker spotted.
Widemouth Deepthroat wrote:1min would be fine, perhaps even 30s. Bad ganker spotted. |
Widemouth Deepthroat
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 22:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
30s is about how long it takes a stilletto to enter and load system, run anomaly scanner and warp to a random nearby sanctum/haven and hope there is something there.
30s local would do nothing to active pvers if they aren't mentally ******** (don't watch intel, go back to clearing same anomaly after hostile logged off in system).
Sure bots will change to cheaper ships...good, they won't be immune to bubbles so they could easily be caught instead of near impossible without spy alts which is the case now with most botters using tengus. |
|
Widemouth Deepthroat
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 22:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Opertone wrote:employ Valve to make ENGINE that spots botting. Or contact even balance for free tips. Nitwit spotted. Herping yourDerp wrote:delay local in nullsec. make it so it takes 2-5minutes to appear in local ( depending on sec level?) this means a solo stealth bomber could potentially hit some bots. Bad ganker spotted. Widemouth Deepthroat wrote:1min would be fine, perhaps even 30s. Bad ganker spotted. botter |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
526
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 22:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Fixing high sec mission and mining bots would involve finding ways to force them out of NPC corps so they were then vulnerable to a wardec. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
371
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 23:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
Widemouth Deepthroat wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Opertone wrote:employ Valve to make ENGINE that spots botting. Or contact even balance for free tips. Nitwit spotted. Herping yourDerp wrote:delay local in nullsec. make it so it takes 2-5minutes to appear in local ( depending on sec level?) this means a solo stealth bomber could potentially hit some bots. Bad ganker spotted. Widemouth Deepthroat wrote:1min would be fine, perhaps even 30s. Bad ganker spotted. botter If I'm a botter, then there shouldn't be any harm in reporting me as one, should there?
Put your money where your (wide) mouth is. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
237
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 23:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
Could one of you special snowflakes who think removing local would do crap tell me how would you find those botters then? Do you want to spend five minutes in every system scanning/probing, only to find out that the raven you're looking for is sitting empty in a POS? Do you think it's somehow difficult for a bot to spam d-scan consistently every second 23/7 and warp out as soon as they see an unapproved ship or scan probes? |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
371
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 23:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
This is where cloaked ships would turn overpowered. :eng101: |
Amsterdam Conversations
Cheesecake Starshine
68
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 23:18:00 -
[36] - Quote
Why is it that local needs to be removed in order to have CCP ban bots?
I can only speak for 0.0. South, southeast, north, northeast, are so bot infested it isn't even funny. There's a few hundred botters in drone space alone, Insmother is even worse.
Idgi why it is so hard to ban them. They literally only need to search their database for tengus with nullifiers but without cloaking subsystems, they'd instantly have hundreds of botters they could ban.
But no, it's terribly hard. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
372
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 23:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
Amsterdam Conversations wrote:Why is it that local needs to be removed in order to have CCP ban bots? Simple. They want ganking to be easier, so they use "bots" as an excuse, regardless of the consequences over time. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
130
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 23:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
Its not like bots couldn't be reprogramed if local didn't exist. The bots in high sec aren't using local. If they needed to use a dscan they would design that. In the mean time removing local will cause all sorts of problems for humans who play the game.
Only a small fraction of the players like no local wormholes. Removing local will kill the game faster than bots.
Removing local is not an answer to botting. It is an myopic solution for those who would like to gank pve ships and industrials.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
264
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 23:28:00 -
[39] - Quote
Widemouth Deepthroat wrote:how do you gank the crap out of tengus that make a few hundred mil a day ratting 23/7 in 0.0 which warp to safe the second any hostile enters local and are immune to bubbles? Using a blue alt is too much work.
Are we allowed to make a list of botters and post it on the forum?
If you have 2 accounts park your alt, cloak up, and go walk the dog/play your other toon all day. Do it every day until they ignore you. Then blast the crap out of them when they do. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
454
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 23:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
Removing local will do nothing but make things even better for the botters period.
It is very unlikely you are going to defeat a bot with some ingame mechanic. Not wihout driving a good percentage of players out.
10x more important is being able to identify the botters and ban them and track where and how the stuff they get is flowing through the in game economy.
When the case is made to remove 100 supercaps from the game because the majority of the mins or funds used in their construction is bot based that is the day botting will drop by a sizable degree. |
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1006
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 04:18:00 -
[41] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Could one of you special snowflakes who think removing local would do crap tell me how would you find those botters then? Do you want to spend five minutes in every system scanning/probing, only to find out that the raven you're looking for is sitting empty in a POS? Do you think it's somehow difficult for a bot to spam d-scan consistently every second 23/7 and warp out as soon as they see an unapproved ship or scan probes?
Actually if a script or bot program is running a D-scan loop process, that can still be defeated by having good skills at probing. Basically, in the case for bots, it's generally assumed as to where they "might" be - in the belt's in most cases - and a large ship does not really require that your probes are down to 1AU range for them to get a "warpable hit".
A good ship, and not necessarily a covops, with grav cap rigs, Sisters gear, and a pilot with implants and "all 5s" in Astro can get a warpable hit in 6 seconds or less without having to pull in a tight probe pattern that can show up on D-Scan.
Furthermore, in the case of belts, there is not even a need to get a warpable location on the target, but use a wide probing configuration to get a general idea of which belt, and then go in for the kill.
BTW: I am not a ganker. I have only a few PVP kills and loses in nearly 6 years. But I know of a lot of tricks in probing because the really good hunters are kind enough to write about how they do it.
In fact I would say that the Crimes and Punishment forum makes me a better player, without even having trained smack talk and asshattery to level 5. |
ASadOldGit
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 05:58:00 -
[42] - Quote
Since Tengus and Hulks all require significant training, surely there's a pattern there at the account level that CCP can look at?
The botter would probably have a set plan for efficiency's-sake - a bunch of accounts created at the same time, with the same implants applied, all doing the exact same skill plan, in the same area, but without any sec-status changes or NPC kills (assuming they're not used much before getting into a Tengu). Even the same or similar IP address and credit card (unless someone in-game supplies them with PLEX) are clues.
Those things don't make them bots, but it's certainly suspicious enough behaviour to justify having a look.
My container is NOT imploding! It's just a bit upset that it only sees cheap crap. |
Widemouth Deepthroat
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 06:10:00 -
[43] - Quote
Problem with that is focused tengu pilot is one of best character for isk per skillpoint if you make character for sale (I got 6 training now from the power of 2 deal).
Much easier for them to just look at who is recieving bounty payments over inhuman amounts of time. I bet they already looked at it but just aren't doing anything about it. |
DelBoy Trades
Enslave. GIANTSBANE.
95
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 09:03:00 -
[44] - Quote
I'm no programmer, but is there not a way that the server could detect repetitive, script like actions? I've watched these russian ratters in 0.0, they initiate warp to their POS/planet/safe as soon as someone enters local, presumably their farming actions are similarly obviously automated. I would also propose a thread in which we share tricks for catching them, I've heard of anchoring a bubble in a belt, aggressing yourself then logging off in said bubble so you don't warp off, on log in you're instantly in a belt ready to point, either play the odds or stick someone in every belt. Damn nature, you scary! |
Xavier Quo
InterSun Freelance Moon Warriors
18
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 12:26:00 -
[45] - Quote
everyone in the game should be periodically pinged with the conversation "are you a bot?" failure to respond within 30m flags you as a valid target to anyone.
seriously though this has to be sorted out, it is such a cancer on the game. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
376
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 12:43:00 -
[46] - Quote
Xavier Quo wrote:everyone in the game should be periodically pinged with the conversation "are you a bot?" failure to respond within 30m flags you as a valid target to anyone. Every time someone comes up with this idea, even in jest, god kills a kitten.
Please, think of the kittens. |
March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
63
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 13:18:00 -
[47] - Quote
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:Quote: You know how fast a properly fitted tackler can get into a system and have you pointed? Seconds.
Some times you really get the impression the bots are smarter and more able to survive in EVE than some of the players. not smarter but more "active". I mean they don't miss local update because of wife, children, new joke in corp chat or something.....
some times i miss neutrals appearing for like 1+ minutes. It happens when i'm docked and doing PI for example. |
TheLostPenguin
Surreal Departure
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 13:20:00 -
[48] - Quote
CCP have only ever taken moderate action against botters in the past for 2 reasons. Those same 2 reasons are why there's no chance at all of them going on some insane bottkilling rampage again either now, or any time SoonGäó
- MONEY. It doesn't matter whether these bots pay with cc or (more likely) PLEX, it's a large chunk of cash coming in, for those of you that didn't notice, CCP is kinda broke atm so I can't see finance being too happy with a pile of accounts nuked, no matter how 'right' it is to do so.
- RISK. Even if 99% of accounts banned for botting are bots, getting it wrong for 1% has the potential to be a severe PR mess, especially if the story gets run my multiple gaming sites, they really do have to be damn sure that someone is a bot and not just a focused/efficent player. The potential consequences of getting it wrong in terms of losing more genuine subs (not sush a problem), and discouraging potential new players that're reading about how people are getting wrongly banned for botting (much more of a problem) are just too high to afford many screwups.
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Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
308
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 13:23:00 -
[49] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:...on the war against the non-humans?
I see more bots now than ever before and there is no sign of it slowing down. They destroy the mineral market, PLEX market due to using it to play for free, I see massive armies of Tengus farming high sec missions, they destroy the belt ratting out in null space, is there no place left that is not tainted by these things? When are the actual players who are at the keyboard going to see some real effort from CCP to be rid of these things?
A dev blog is great, but when it is not backed up with real action; what is the point?
You think it's bad now? Just think how bad it would be if CCP wasn't doing anything....hahahaha. Seriously, CCP could only help itself if it published non-technical data about their anti-botting efforts in the game. Why they don't beats me.....no not really. It's obvious why they don't.
You ask "if there's no place left that is not tainted by these things". The answer is yes, w-space. While bots could technically function there, they can't do it reliably without local or hacked clients. The single most effective mechanic is "no local". All CCP would have to do is remove local from null and those bots cease to function. Yet, CCP is supposedly developing "intel tools" to counter removing local that they've professed to desire. I won't be surprised when those "intel tools" are found to be overly complex and tediously repetitive making them perfectly suited to being automated. I'm thinking of some sort of a clickfest like PI. ;) We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Ione Skye
hirr Against ALL Authorities
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 14:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
I am on your side Malona Sky on this one.
There is a new pest in Eve: it is botting Tengus in Anomalies
Belt botting is pretty dead. Why? Because it is not at all as profitable as Tengus in Anos. A belt ratting raven creates in Dotlan maybe 100-200 wrecks/h and you can only use 1 or 2 per system. for one Raven/Drake it is appr. 1000 in 23/7. Often it gets disturbed and then it is way less. A tengu group in Anos creates up to 10000+ NPC kills in 1 system. Today there are often groups of 4-5 tengus in deadends with high enough sec status.
The sad thing is:
this are the same guys, who did it big years ago already. There seem to be some organized crime style cheating going on. Why should a mafia group not target gold shop-like a MMORPG like Eve for RMT business?
Which leads us to the possible reasons, why CCP fail so horribly:
1) They completely sleep and know nothing about what is going on out there. The way, they failed with their event fleet would indicat this, too. Naive geeks.
2) They know, what is going on and profit from it, too
3) CCP are blackmailed by the RMT guys. We speak about a bigger picture here: These guys can hire PL and other mercs, form alliances, are known to bribe alliances leaders or important FCs of hostile alliances with real $ and make them remove either legit player groups, who just want to play the game for fun (what it is supposed to be) or fight vs other RMT empires. All big alliance blocks have today connections to RMT business groups. |
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2402
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 15:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Actually if a script or bot program is running a D-scan loop process, that can still be defeated by having good skills at probing. Basically, in the case for bots, it's generally assumed as to where they "might" be - in the belt's in most cases - and a large ship does not really require that your probes are down to 1AU range for them to get a "warpable hit".
This sounds like something a bot programmer or vendor would say, tbh
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |
Valei Khurelem
House Khurelem
62
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 15:17:00 -
[52] - Quote
Quote:If "chokepoints" is all that's stopping you from "invading 0.0", then give up now. You're way too pathetic at warfare to get anywhere.
If you know of a way one player can beat a 30+ fleet of tech 2 ships and battleships, feel free to tell me smart ass. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
387
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 15:20:00 -
[53] - Quote
If you think "one player" is supposed to be able to wrest control of one or more systems from 30+ people, then join the supercap club, or get a better appreciation for the multiplayer aspect of this game.
Or get friends. This is probably a better strategy in the long run. |
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 15:21:00 -
[54] - Quote
I don't expect anything of consequence will ever be done to deal with the botters. One you accept that, then you can just play... |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
139
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 16:09:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ok but all of this will then apply to humans who are ratting in null or low sec as well right? Not to mention all the problems no local will cause for solo or small gang pvpers trying to avoid blobs.
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Abdiel Kavash wrote:Could one of you special snowflakes who think removing local would do crap tell me how would you find those botters then? Do you want to spend five minutes in every system scanning/probing, only to find out that the raven you're looking for is sitting empty in a POS? Do you think it's somehow difficult for a bot to spam d-scan consistently every second 23/7 and warp out as soon as they see an unapproved ship or scan probes? Actually if a script or bot program is running a D-scan loop process, that can still be defeated by having good skills at probing. Basically, in the case for bots, it's generally assumed as to where they "might" be - in the belt's in most cases - and a large ship does not really require that your probes are down to 1AU range for them to get a "warpable hit". A good ship, and not necessarily a covops, with grav cap rigs, Sisters gear, and a pilot with implants and "all 5s" in Astro can get a warpable hit in 6 seconds or less without having to pull in a tight probe pattern that can show up on D-Scan. Furthermore, in the case of belts, there is not even a need to get a warpable location on the target, but use a wide probing configuration to get a general idea of which belt, and then go in for the kill. BTW: I am not a ganker. I have only a few PVP kills and loses in nearly 6 years. But I know of a lot of tricks in probing because the really good hunters are kind enough to write about how they do it. In fact I would say that the Crimes and Punishment forum makes me a better player, without even having trained smack talk and asshattery to level 5. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Ione Skye
hirr Against ALL Authorities
1
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Posted - 2011.12.30 17:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
Probing them only works, if the gate is not bubbled with a gazillon of large bubbles and they start botting again after you left with your probes in th system and if they are close to the gate. A lot of "ifs". Also 4 tengus nuke a small tackle in 1 volley, so the DPS ship need to be there very quick, too. Otherwise they warp out very fast. There is a reason, why there are so many of them and so few of them get killed.
The best method to catch one, is to AWOX. Blue tackle alt. But only a handful of ppl care to do this from time to time, so it is only a drop on a hot stone. Also if there would be more awoxers, they certainly adapt their standing lists.
Btw. I have a list with potential bots. It shows something really disturbing:
All the guys, who I suspect to be bots, because other evidence let me say, this might be bots, are very often online and green. There will always be a strong correlation between online time and botting. Somebody, who runs a bot, only runs it, because he automated some repeating, brainmelting, boring actions. The longer he runs his cheat program, the more he profits. So these are online very often and out of that list I have a high number of "players" green and only a few red all the time.
I have another list. Famous PVPers, I fought against, and which I watch. This list is the total opposite. It is more than 90 % red, not online, and only a few come sometimes online to play the game. I see it also in my own corp. The participation for pvp is shockingly low, out of the whole group. It appears to me, most players, who play this game longer and are honest, have already given up and no more play Eveonline. Sometimes some of them have nothing to do and then they play the game again for a few days or weeks a couple of hours more a week. But most players, who play this for years, lost the passion, which they once had for the game.
And I think, I know the reason: If you do not cheat, you will be always just a victim in the great end game to the professinals, who make RL money with it. They either try to bribe good PVPers or sell them ISK. They do not like PVPers, who not work for them as mercs, not pay rent or do not buy ISK from them. These kind of players, they try to grief out of the game and they did this very successful with certainly thousands of players. |
Killmeded
KMD Enterprises
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 18:40:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP could set it so that toons that are acting "botish" or people that were reported would recieve a popup with a distorted text test like u have to for emails n stuff. This would easily foil most bots. Failure to respond would result in banning. This could expand the use of the report botting feature.
It could limit the test to a timer but also to if the toon is still taking actions. This would help so that afk people were not being banned for not responding.
A delay function for people in combat could also be implemented. Guristas should have-á"BIGGER" Skull Bunnies-áin the default paintjob.-áGuristas and all other pirates should get custom ships like angels (or at LEAST fix the-áHIDEOUS Moa/Gila-áhull). |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
235
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 18:45:00 -
[58] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Remove local or delay it.
-by the time the bot operator pushes his fat girlfriend off his lap the wolfpack is already into the next system.
Herzog, Is the bot operator also a 'neckbeard' by chance? Does he like ponies? 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim'
Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
134
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 18:49:00 -
[59] - Quote
Killmeded wrote:CCP could set it so that toons that are acting "botish" or people that were reported would recieve a popup with a distorted text test like u have to for emails n stuff. This would easily foil most bots. Failure to respond would result in banning. This could expand the use of the report botting feature.
It could limit the test to a timer but also to if the toon is still taking actions. This would help so that afk people were not being banned for not responding.
A delay function for people in combat could also be implemented. Captcha, and no it won't work.
Captcha breaking bots are everywhere, most are free.
Not to mention that many players (such as myself) cannot read those blasted things. Especially when they are multicolored. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
392
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 20:11:00 -
[60] - Quote
Killmeded wrote:CCP could set it so that toons that are acting "botish" or people that were reported would recieve a popup with a distorted text test like u have to for emails n stuff. This would easily foil most bots. Failure to respond would result in banning. This could expand the use of the report botting feature.
It could limit the test to a timer but also to if the toon is still taking actions. This would help so that afk people were not being banned for not responding.
A delay function for people in combat could also be implemented. Every time someone makes this suggestion, god kills a kitten.
Please, think of the kittens. |
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Ione Skye
hirr Against ALL Authorities
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 20:34:00 -
[61] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Killmeded wrote:CCP could set it so that toons that are acting "botish" or people that were reported would recieve a popup with a distorted text test like u have to for emails n stuff. This would easily foil most bots. Failure to respond would result in banning. This could expand the use of the report botting feature.
It could limit the test to a timer but also to if the toon is still taking actions. This would help so that afk people were not being banned for not responding.
A delay function for people in combat could also be implemented. Captcha, and no it won't work. Captcha breaking bots are everywhere, most are free. Not to mention that many players (such as myself) cannot read those blasted things. Especially when they are multicolored.
agreed, Captcha really sucks. There are already way too many messages, which I do not read and just click away or some bad captcha are not readable at all.
I doubt the report function is for real. My guess is, it ends in a dead post box, which nobody ever cares to look into. It is just there to make some worried players feel better. I used this. Others used this. Nothing ever happend.
And that is the basic problem. Nothing ever happens or ever seems to happen. Or if somethings happens, 3 strike policy, nobody knows there was maybe a first strike and of course nobody knows, what the botter did after the first strike in long term. They usually let that account go inactive for a few months and switch another online, before they recycle it. They also could sell it on the character basar.
What I do not understand. I can go through a region with dotlan. I see where the hotspots of NPC kills are and then put them in the addressbook. Then I see whether they are too long online to be just one human. The effort for this is a couple of hours without software tool for each region to make the list and then control it from time to time. It can be done by anybody with no education at all. It could have been done years ago already and on regular basis.
Why did and does this never happen?
Next step is, to watch the cash flow, where it goes to. Another step would be to see, what their main characters and accounts are. The only time I remember somebody famous, who has been banned, was 1armory1 in the last months, because it was published in Russian forums. CCP should have a public black list. Often humans are not very creative at finding new names. So if a botter comes back with another name, which is simular to his old names and more ppl had a list to compare, this might help also to get a tip sometimes, that a banned person tries to cheat again with a new account. It also helps, that ppl do not forget or just do not know, why this character is no more online.
Which leads us to the next question? Why let CCP be accounts run anonymously?
I like anonymity in general. It is worth a lot. Good for free speech like here. But in business it can be dangerous. It animates criminal business partners to go more far than they would, if they had to show their real name. I also saw, how useful it is to have paid with credit card for an account. If an account has been hacked, it helps, to claim the account back by showing the credit card payments, which lead to a RL address.
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Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
392
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 20:42:00 -
[62] - Quote
I hope you have better metrics for "botter" than online time, because I certainly have absolutely no problem with forgetting to shut down clients overnight or when I go to work. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
1820
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 20:43:00 -
[63] - Quote
https://twitter.com/#!/Chribba/status/152742427529195520
https://twitter.com/#!/Chribba/status/152746244060614659
/c
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Ione Skye
hirr Against ALL Authorities
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 20:46:00 -
[64] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:I hope you have better metrics for "botter" than online time, because I certainly have absolutely no problem with forgetting to shut down clients overnight or when I go to work.
you also accidentally shoot NPCs or do some other PVE while being afk online for too long to be human? |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
392
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 20:53:00 -
[65] - Quote
I haven't shot a single NPC (other than maggot NPCs at gates while we wait to jump through), so no.
That's why I said I hoped you had better metrics for botter determination than just online time. |
Ione Skye
hirr Against ALL Authorities
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 21:06:00 -
[66] - Quote
If you just idle 23/7 hours online, nobody cares, including me. But with dotlan I can see the results of them being online, without being in their system.
It can also be seen without dotlan. If I set up a buy order i.e. in an ice mining system and I see, who is selling me large quantities often and is always online. It is not so difficult to see the signs, even without having GM access, as regular player. For the ice mining, they just needed to compare the big transactions and who they did collect it from. Then check online times for mackinaw pilots and they are already very close. Then again, try to find out, how they try to launder this cheated ISK and who profits from it in the end. Btw. what is Darius Johnson doing. Didnt he want to stop this ****? |
Mentat Cthulhu
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.30 21:17:00 -
[67] - Quote
I think Darius would like to do something but is probably not allowed due to the same reason CCP gives botters 3 warnings instead of permabanning them with no warning as most MMOs do. |
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