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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Twilight Mourning
Suddenly Corporation. Suddenly Spaceships.
2
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Posted - 2017.02.24 17:04:07 -
[241] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi m8s, In March, we're releasing a number of balance tweaks and we would love your feedback. WARP DISRUPTION FIELD GENERATORSThe current state of Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators is a little too oppressive, especially to the small gang PvP scene. We'd like to open up propulsion module options. As such, we're going to make some changes. Changes: - Remove the Warp Scrambling effect from the Focused Warp Disruption Script
- Introduce a new Focused Warp Scrambling Script with a -20% range bonus
The new Focused Warp Scrambling Script will have the following ranges (with max skills): - T1: 16km
- Meta: 18km
- T2: 20km
- Faction: 21km
The blueprint for the Focused Warp Scrambling Script will be available at all the same place & price as the Focused Warp Disruption Script blueprint is available.
RIP my nano-Broadsword for nano-fleets.
Broadsword faction scram 21k, Lachesis faction scram 22.5k or 27k with heat. HICs are great for small nano-fleets to control the range of incoming tackle. This isn't helping small gangs nearly as much as it's hurting them. |
Farr Arrow
Perkone Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2017.02.24 17:11:50 -
[242] - Quote
I like these changes. Thank you. |
Jonatan Reed
Origin. Did he say Jump
87
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Posted - 2017.02.24 17:15:12 -
[243] - Quote
Finally.
You can still point **** at 37/39km, you just can't scram.
ELITE PVP, WHADDUP
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Lord Molly
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
427
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Posted - 2017.02.24 17:20:47 -
[244] - Quote
oh ccp why you gotta hate on the solo onyx pilot bro's?
My Youtube Chan
Alliance Youtube Chan
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Zockhandra
Flames Of Chaos
34
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Posted - 2017.02.24 17:31:32 -
[245] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi m8s, In March, we're releasing a number of balance tweaks and we would love your feedback. WARP DISRUPTION FIELD GENERATORSThe current state of Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators is a little too oppressive, especially to the small gang PvP scene. We'd like to open up propulsion module options. As such, we're going to make some changes. Changes: - Remove the Warp Scrambling effect from the Focused Warp Disruption Script
- Introduce a new Focused Warp Scrambling Script with a -20% range bonus
The new Focused Warp Scrambling Script will have the following ranges (with max skills): - T1: 16km
- Meta: 18km
- T2: 20km
- Faction: 21km
The blueprint for the Focused Warp Scrambling Script will be available at all the same place & price as the Focused Warp Disruption Script blueprint is available.
Fantastic changes, this should open up much more viability for roaming and small group fights without big home-field advantages. though that range still seems a bit on the long side, it certainly opens up the options of T2 disruptors on regular ships again for kiting.
Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you.
Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned,
across from the bubble and into your hull.
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Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
736
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Posted - 2017.02.24 17:42:39 -
[246] - Quote
At the very least let us overheat the HIC point, as has been requested by others as well.
If not that, then extend the scram range to a base of 20, and build up from there. It doesn't get bonused by links, so Lachesis will still have a role.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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Trajan Unknown
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
134
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Posted - 2017.02.24 17:44:58 -
[247] - Quote
Casper24 wrote:I dunno about all ur data diving. But simple as - how many people in this game ( percent wise ) do u think actually think on their own fits. not anything found on zkill or some youtube video. In each group of people how many "content: providers and forward-thinking" people are there out there for u to actually find.
This number is much higher in the FW frig meta granted, but for cruiser roaming - there are very few. That is why imo ur "data" or whatever that means isn't showing you what some of us are mentioning. Everyone and their mom is in an orthrus, a gila, a vni or omen navy. Why ?? cause that's what someone else who saw someone else, or was killed by one of these were flying.
Searching stats or zkill or whatever ur doing is never going to show u the most powerful ships or best setups. Just the most popular, and thats a never ending cycle until some "e-famous something" points it out. See chessurs nose, Suitonias kessy, Zoes Atron, Brains Keres. Everyone in different circles has their own things to insert there. But you get the picture.
Edit - Just a side note - how often do you ever see a small gang comp take on another small gang comp - this doesn't happen, as 2 highly skilled gangs will not put themselves in a position they cannot pull out of. Its 90% small gang vs kitchen sink or gate camp ( where there are none of these "forward thinking skilled players" that your data is looking for.
I would say the percentage of people who "invent" new fits is pretty low and outside of some niche things for special tasks/tournaments a specific hunt there is not much room for stuff that wasn-¦t there before. But what does that have to do with the topic actually? My point is not to show off some crazy fits but the amount of HICs used in small gang scenarios. No matter if you lose your "special HIC" or not it will end up in the data stream. The fit doesn-¦t bother me at all, just pure numbers. And from what I can tell HICs are barely used in small gang stuff compared to all other scenarios. If the HIC would be ass oppressive as some people call it to be you would see it everywhere. But this is not the case except for gatecamps. You will find them a lot on the hi-sec camps, low and null-sec entry gates but that-¦s it. Maybe counting hi-sec stations too where they seem to be a regular appearance as well.
I barely see two small gangs take on each others and agree on the points you made about the reasoning. And we-¦re getting closer to the core of the problem it seems. Screwing with gatecamps in nano gangs can be a pita and yes, HICs on gates are pure cance*r but that doesn-¦t make them oppressive and is no problem for small gangs except you run blind into the camp or engage the thing with a wrong comp. If the reasoning for all the complains is, that you can-¦t mess with proper organised gatecamps then well, I am sorry but I don-¦t engage combat carriers with cruisers either. Non the less, I can understand the pain that gatecamps can cause since it-¦s pretty much no effort to get some juicy kills and sometimes even tears and yes it kinda triggers me when I jump into a system with my slicer/dramiel/insert frigate, get alpha-¦ed by a bloody gatecamp and get a "gf" in local. But as much as I sometimes wish "gatecamps" wouldn-¦t exist they are part of the game and just because they feell "oppressive" doesn-¦t mean they should not exist. |
Lord Molly
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
427
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Posted - 2017.02.24 17:46:05 -
[248] - Quote
like 30km would be ok, but yeah turbo nerf to 21km is fa far to harsh i think you will see a huge decline in their use in fleets
My Youtube Chan
Alliance Youtube Chan
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Lord Molly
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
427
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Posted - 2017.02.24 17:55:05 -
[249] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSDaMGBbHVQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg1thXYeCWQ
Gotta leave those there for prosperity i guess
My Youtube Chan
Alliance Youtube Chan
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3821
|
Posted - 2017.02.24 18:05:38 -
[250] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:At the very least let us overheat the HIC point, as has been requested by others as well.
If not that, then extend the scram range to a base of 20, and build up from there. It doesn't get bonused by links, so Lachesis will still have a role.
i find leaving it at the same range as an unheated lach to be best that way the lach has a role even if you don't have links
BLOPS Hauler
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Cade Windstalker
901
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Posted - 2017.02.24 18:47:07 -
[251] - Quote
Twilight Mourning wrote:RIP my nano-Broadsword for nano-fleets.
Broadsword faction scram 21k, Lachesis faction scram 22.5k or 27k with heat. HICs are great for small nano-fleets to control the range of incoming tackle. This isn't helping small gangs nearly as much as it's hurting them.
I think you may be confusing something that hurts a particular small fleet comp with something that hurts small fleets in general. These are not the same thing. This does make it harder to control range and keep MWDing targets at arms length, but you still have a ship that can do that quite well, it's just squishier and you have to make more of a tradeoff for it...
Lord Molly wrote:like 30km would be ok, but yeah turbo nerf to 21km is fa far to harsh i think you will see a huge decline in their use in fleets
.... that's the point? |
Twilight Mourning
Suddenly Corporation. Suddenly Spaceships.
2
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Posted - 2017.02.24 18:53:16 -
[252] - Quote
Bobmon wrote:Happy Hyde Happy Life
He won't be getting my vote again. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3821
|
Posted - 2017.02.24 18:58:23 -
[253] - Quote
Twilight Mourning wrote:Bobmon wrote:Happy Hyde Happy Life He won't be getting my vote again.
because he brought up a concern the community had been voicing for a while?
yeah not the type of candidate i want either
BLOPS Hauler
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Twilight Mourning
Suddenly Corporation. Suddenly Spaceships.
2
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Posted - 2017.02.24 19:09:39 -
[254] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Twilight Mourning wrote:Bobmon wrote:Happy Hyde Happy Life He won't be getting my vote again. because he brought up a concern the community had been voicing for a while? yeah not the type of candidate i want either
You have your opinion, I have mine. *shrug* |
01d Man
Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2017.02.24 19:24:58 -
[255] - Quote
Do you Devs even talk to the CSM. What a stupid change. This was a valid change 2 years ago but not in the current meta |
Hilti Enaka
State War Academy Caldari State
129
|
Posted - 2017.02.24 19:37:42 -
[256] - Quote
Warp scrambing/disrupting in general is oppressive overall, its such a dumb ass idea with the current gaming these days. The counter argument is "players should be forced to commit or not commit" but the game play becomes too dull and predictable.
These modules or the concept of making people decide to commit or not commit needs a new direction. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3826
|
Posted - 2017.02.24 19:38:43 -
[257] - Quote
01d Man wrote:Do you Devs even talk to the CSM. What a stupid change. This was a valid change 2 years ago but not in the current meta
has the hic even had a scram for two years? it's all a blur
BLOPS Hauler
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penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
466
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Posted - 2017.02.24 19:47:39 -
[258] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:At the very least let us overheat the HIC point, as has been requested by others as well.
If not that, then extend the scram range to a base of 20, and build up from there. It doesn't get bonused by links, so Lachesis will still have a role.
I completely agree with this post.
These changes are in the right direction. I think the real issue with the complaints in this thread are with Garmurs and Orthruses, which are in need of a balance pass. |
Solaris Vex
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
13
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Posted - 2017.02.24 19:56:51 -
[259] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Twilight Mourning wrote:Bobmon wrote:Happy Hyde Happy Life He won't be getting my vote again. because he brought up a concern the community had been voicing for a while? yeah not the type of candidate i want either
What community has been voicing that? Probably just the small nano gang crew, and its not as if they need any help the orthrus is still OP.
This change nerfs a niche ship to help a playstyle thats already strong.
And remember the T2 point requires investing a million sp for graviton physics V, a skill with literally no other pvp use. Add a another 1.2 million sp to train hics V and you can bet that most people don't have a 37km scram. My scram range is 32km and after these change will be ~18km, aka totally useless. I might as well fly an orthrus which has similar scram range and is better in other ways too. |
Cade Windstalker
902
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Posted - 2017.02.24 20:01:40 -
[260] - Quote
Solaris Vex wrote:What community has been voicing that? Probably just the small nano gang crew, and its not as if they need any help the orthrus is still OP.
This change nerfs a niche ship to help a playstyle thats already strong.
And remember the T2 point requires investing a million sp for graviton physics V, a skill with literally no other pvp use. Add a another 1.2 million sp to train hics V and you can bet that most people don't have a 37km scram. My scram range is 32km and after these change will be ~18km, aka totally useless. I might as well fly an orthrus which has similar scram range and is better in other ways too.
Doesn't matter if most people didn't have the max range, before this you still easily got a significantly higher Scram range with a HIC than you could with a focused EWar ship and a load more tank and gank in the bundle. |
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Solaris Vex
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
13
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Posted - 2017.02.24 20:21:53 -
[261] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Doesn't matter if most people didn't have the max range, before this you still easily got a significantly higher Scram range with a HIC than you could with a focused EWar ship and a load more tank and gank in the bundle.
No hic has good damage relative to its price. Tank and scram range were the hics selling points. They don't have the range, speed, or damage projection of on othrus, and neither the orthrus or hics could point as far as a Lach. These were well balanced stats that gave each ship a role, but after these changes the Lach can point AND scram farther then a hic. |
Ele Rebellion
Discount Grapes Inc Darwinism.
74
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Posted - 2017.02.24 20:37:29 -
[262] - Quote
Please give overheating a range bonus! |
Na'av
Biomass Party All Paths Lead to Anoikis
7
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Posted - 2017.02.24 20:41:39 -
[263] - Quote
Lucian James wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote:Scrams not affect afterburners ( propulsion module options ).
Maybe what really needs to be taken into the consideration is why people prefer MWD? Why AB is less desired. Maybe real fix is in increasing cap usage of the MWD so you cannot perma run it without any cap related fit modifications.
HIC offered good possibility to fight kite meta - why are you taking this away? HIC scram range was very important for the fighting the MJD and MJFG meta - now like every thing is jumping.
I like current HIC for the ability to say - if you want to fight - fight not run.
This will be bad change. I agree 100%. CCP can you go one day this week without being complete idiots? First the alliance name changes and now this garbage? You're making it really easy to play other games besides Eve. Please hire some developers that either play the game or stop making changes that some tiny minority in eve complains about; this constant slew of crap from you people is beyond irritating. Your customer service and development is starting to take a 2008 swing; fix it. Lucian James
While I normally disagree with large nullsec entities, I have to agree with Lucian. I have been caught many times in low sec by instalocking hics with focused scripts, but I find it annoying at best.
Calling bullshit on the people that say they bring HICs to their kite fleet comps, because HICs are slow compared to their t1 variants, and slowing down targets that are chasing you is not the point of a kite fleet, since it can reduce missile damage with the reduction of sig that happens when MWD turns off.
The only thing here that's being nerfed is the anti-kiting arsenal which is basically just HICs and gallente tech 2 ewar ships - and maybe mordus ships, but their range isn't as good. As someone listed earlier.
There are other ways to nerf HICs other than removing an entire portion of a very niche ship job. You can add the movement changes from having bubbles up to the focused point, or things like that.
Reduction in range to below the standards set by gallente ships is not a feasible solution. HIC pilots will just switch to the cheaper lachesis and just have a bubbler on field. Because of this, I disagree with the people who say this helps small pvp gangs, because now you have to have two people to do the same job that one person could have done in a HIC. This benefits large gangs with lots of people to fill roles while small gangs with limited people may not be able to fill those roles while maintaining an ample amount of dps in the fleet.
This will remove long scrams from every race except the Gallente Federation's EWAR ships - which already have competing mid slots for sensor damps (The new ECM) and tank (because who flies armor kite, be real).
In conclusion, this change will remove hics from the small gang arsenal but make very little change to the arsenal of large groups that can work around the change by adding more people in more specialized ships to do the job. Only those with access to Gallente tech 2 ships will be able to have comparable scrambling ranges at the cost of tank and dps (when compared to HICs). This will not change the status quo for large gangs.
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Daide Vondrichnov
SnaiLs aNd FroGs WE FORM V0LTA
49
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Posted - 2017.02.24 21:05:45 -
[264] - Quote
Na'av wrote:Calling bullshit on the people that say they bring HICs to their kite fleet comps
So keep calling it bullshit, it won't make it less true.
Na'av wrote:ecause HICs are slow compared to their t1 variants
Roamers are undocking with oracles / BNIs / HFIs / Faction battleships everydays and you believe we can't make up a nano HIC fit ? Do you play this game ?
Na'av wrote:and slowing down targets that are chasing you is not the point of a kite fleet
What ? Have you ever kited ? Screening everything mwd fitted in a 39,4km radius around your fleet is Golden. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
814
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Posted - 2017.02.24 21:08:50 -
[265] - Quote
Solaris Vex wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:
Doesn't matter if most people didn't have the max range, before this you still easily got a significantly higher Scram range with a HIC than you could with a focused EWar ship and a load more tank and gank in the bundle.
No hic has good damage relative to its price. Tank and scram range were the hics selling points. They don't have the range, speed, or damage projection of on othrus, and neither the orthrus or hics could point as far as a Lach. These were well balanced stats that gave each ship a role, but after these changes the Lach can point AND scram farther then a hic.
As far as dps goes, most solo/small gang HICS can do 450-500+ dps. The devoter with heavy beams was especially potent and it could still fit a singe rep to tank 500dps (which is easy when youre at 37km and very little can project that far, except rlml). For perspective, those HICs are doing HAC level dps, with 37km scrams and very managable tanks with no downside.
As far as the "solo kite community" from your previous comment, your ignorance is showing, HICs didnt hurt orthrus, they nuked brawly battleships/battlecruisers as it nullified their main utility, the MJD. As well as placing them outside the range of secondary utility, heavy neuts.
But keep thinking this is all because "kiters" were complaining about HICs. Ironic that people like you ***** and claim kiters are taking away your uber scram, when you yourselves were kiting outside any reasonable range to counter.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Make the Muninn great again!
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Daide Vondrichnov
SnaiLs aNd FroGs WE FORM V0LTA
49
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Posted - 2017.02.24 21:18:11 -
[266] - Quote
Solaris Vex wrote: Hmm a phobos with no rep and minimal buffer. Any ship with a rep and decent damage at 37km would outlast this quite easily. A Gila would be cheaper and stronger.
Comparing a gila to a phobos :ok_hand:
Will you realise at some point how dumb and ignorant you are about this game ? |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2811
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Posted - 2017.02.24 21:28:17 -
[267] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Solaris Vex wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:
Doesn't matter if most people didn't have the max range, before this you still easily got a significantly higher Scram range with a HIC than you could with a focused EWar ship and a load more tank and gank in the bundle.
No hic has good damage relative to its price. Tank and scram range were the hics selling points. They don't have the range, speed, or damage projection of on othrus, and neither the orthrus or hics could point as far as a Lach. These were well balanced stats that gave each ship a role, but after these changes the Lach can point AND scram farther then a hic. As far as dps goes, most solo/small gang HICS can do 450-500+ dps. The devoter with heavy beams was especially potent and it could still fit a singe rep to tank 500dps (which is easy when youre at 37km and very little can project that far, except rlml). For perspective, those HICs are doing HAC level dps, with 37km scrams and very managable tanks with no downside. As far as the "solo kite community" from your previous comment, your ignorance is showing, HICs didnt hurt orthrus, they nuked brawly battleships/battlecruisers as it nullified their main utility, the MJD. As well as placing them outside the range of secondary utility, heavy neuts. But keep thinking this is all because "kiters" were complaining about HICs. Ironic that people like you ***** and claim kiters are taking away your uber scram, when you yourselves were kiting outside any reasonable range to counter.
Stitch, you know I respect you, but the vitality of solo battecruisers or battleships is not a good thing to balance an entire ship class around. HIC's are not the cancer here. It's the Orthrus, Omen Navy Issue, Keres, Tengu gangs. They are already very strong and now will be even stronger.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Trajan Unknown
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
135
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Posted - 2017.02.24 21:44:41 -
[268] - Quote
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:Na'av wrote:Calling bullshit on the people that say they bring HICs to their kite fleet comps
So keep calling it bullshit, it won't make it less true. Na'av wrote:ecause HICs are slow compared to their t1 variants
Roamers are undocking with oracles / BNIs / HFIs / Faction battleships / Command ships everydays and you believe we can't make up a nano HIC fit ? Do you play this game ? Na'av wrote:and slowing down targets that are chasing you is not the point of a kite fleet
What ? Have you ever kited ? Screening everything mwd fitted in a 39,4km radius around your fleet is Golden.
I have a pretty high opinion about you guys and your experience when it comes for small warfare stuff so I am still hoping to get some solid arguments out of your group to support the nerf but until now I haven-¦t seen much that is really convincing and I slowly start disliking to be the one who is arguing against the nerf. So please, get some proper arguments to together. :)
You can screen your fleet yes, against one ship or how many HICs do you guys bring? Maybe two if you fit 2 focus points. For the sake of it, you can even fit more but from the fits posted it-¦s pretty much just one point. So yeah, you can screen against on single ship. What-¦s the benefit of that please? You can simply shoot stuff to bits when they come close, guessing you engage standing fleets 7/10 times. Damage projection above 37.5 km, that-¦s the max range for HICs is no biggie either. You mentioned Oracles already. One or two Oracles to support your fleet will go to town with anything "engageable" and since you won-¦t engage s similar skilled/equipped gang outside of arranged fights/tournaments there is no problem. Last but not least, if you engage with brawlers you bring them in and kill ****. There is no need for a HIC to pin a brawler down/disable it-¦s MJD/MWD. Once you commit you-¦re pretty much done for except you kill all their small **** and somehow manage to get out but the HIC will be the least of your problems. ECM frigs and tons of Alphas in suicide tackle is what keeps you on grid as a brawler. Every single nano cruiser I have is either in range of linked and/or heated scrams anyway so a HIC won-¦t change **** or can project further than 37.5km so the HIC won-¦t change ****.
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Cade Windstalker
903
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Posted - 2017.02.24 22:04:51 -
[269] - Quote
Solaris Vex wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:
Doesn't matter if most people didn't have the max range, before this you still easily got a significantly higher Scram range with a HIC than you could with a focused EWar ship and a load more tank and gank in the bundle.
No hic has good damage relative to its price. Tank and scram range were the hics selling points. They don't have the range, speed, or damage projection of on othrus, and neither the orthrus or hics could point as far as a Lach. These were well balanced stats that gave each ship a role, but after these changes the Lach can point AND scram farther then a hic.
I didn't say a HIC had good DPS relative to its price, or even good DPS for its hull class, I just said that any HIC still has better tank and gank than a Gallente Recon.
Quote:after these changes the Lach can point AND scram farther then a hic.
Gee, it's almost like that's what the Ship is bonused for and should be able to do. HICs have bubbles, better tank, better DPS, and are basically the only ship that can tackle Supers, and laugh at Scrams. I think the Gallente Recons deserve to be able to claw one back, because while long points aren't bad there's a reason you don't see many gangs running a Lachesis but you see a fair number of HICs. |
Captain jdd
SnaiLs aNd FroGs WE FORM V0LTA
8
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Posted - 2017.02.24 22:42:39 -
[270] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Stitch, you know I respect you, but the vitality of solo battecruisers or battleships is not a good thing to balance an entire ship class around. HIC's are not the cancer here. It's the Orthrus, Omen Navy Issue, Keres, Tengu gangs. They are already very strong and now will be even stronger. Ok. Nomen and Tengu are cancer now. New.
I don't really understand why you need a 40km scram. Bring Keres and Orthrus too. Finally it's more a nerf for the kiters who use HIC, cause they know how to play those ships more than blobers or whatever. |
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