Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 .. 15 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Suitonia
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
757
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 16:55:57 -
[91] - Quote
Alice Fury wrote:RIP HIC's. Other ships do their only job better now. This sucks, I put a lot of time in to getting HIC V and T2 Bubbles just for the Scram range.
CCP what would be the reason to undock a HIC now? Anti-Booshing? Better hope you can get on that CD with your short range before they get their boosh off. Is that what HIC's are relegated to now, countering a destroyer?
Bummer
Please, you don't need 39.4km scram to shut down a CD lets be real. Most people who aren't bad at the game are going to have CDs at pings and fleet warp them onto targets, or use solo expanded probe fit if you want to boosh properly, or warp down to wrecks etc. As well as doing spearfishing from 100km+ with multiple CDs, HICs don't help protect against that at all.
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos
Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
|
Timm3h
Oruze Cruise White Stag Exit Bag
101
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 16:57:48 -
[92] - Quote
*tips orthrus* M' gameplay |
Capqu
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
1259
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 16:58:27 -
[93] - Quote
u talk about oppressive meta and yet the orthrus isnt mentioned
hmmMMM
thinking emoji
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
|
Mareck001
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club Circle-Of-Two
80
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 16:59:45 -
[94] - Quote
I'm getting tired of these special snowflakes screwing up the game and nerfing what works fine. Tou want to make some changes to the balance of the game to improve gameplay? Look at the Rorqual and Garmor. You're pandering to some solo streamer and his buddies who don't know squat about how small gang combat goes down in the REAL 95% of us that play the game on a daily basis. |
Capqu
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
1259
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:00:19 -
[95] - Quote
Capqu wrote:u talk about oppressive meta and yet the orthrus isnt mentioned
hmmMMM
thinking emoji
also you essentially just buffed the orthrus btw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
|
Suitonia
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
758
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:01:09 -
[96] - Quote
Timm3h wrote:*tips orthrus* M' gameplay
Unironically HIC scrams just made Orthrus' much more prolific, because it's one of the few kiting ships that can project outside HIC Scram range while also tackling ships outside HIC scram range. What HICs killed was solo brawling with MJDs entirely, cheap, affordable or accessible kiting ships (RIP anyone trying to just take out a nano thorax, cane or stabber etc.).
Flying 100mn stuff + needing a Keres to even undock if you want to do non Orthrus stuff is getting boring.
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos
Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
|
Capqu
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
1259
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:02:08 -
[97] - Quote
Capqu wrote:Capqu wrote:u talk about oppressive meta and yet the orthrus isnt mentioned
hmmMMM
thinking emoji also you essentially just buffed the orthrus btw
and it didnt need a buff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
|
l0rd carlos
TURN LEFT
1308
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:04:11 -
[98] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:
Skynet was a complete different thing and it had to be nerfed no question.
HiCs? They are ******* limited in what they can do and when I said "run" I meant you don-¦t have to commit at all. A HiC has no real power projection over a a grid, let alone system. Fighters were pretty much a "shut the whole system down" thingy. Outside of plexes that means. If you want to commit to a fight with a HiC do it else simply don-¦t. So please, where is your argument? At least give me a weak one. The "meta needs changing" is no balance argument at all it barely is one for gameplay. Posts before me mentioned some "hard counters" to HiCs already so there is something. Running 100mn cruisers because of HiCs sound weird to be honest. Running 100mn cruisers for several reasons sounds legit. They are a pain in the ass to pin down except you have "web superiority" and can apply them in time. Else you can fuc*k*ng run MWDs and commit. After all it-¦s no different from getting caught in close range cruisers by a nano-gang with ceptor support. Can-¦t touch the ceptors really, can-¦t run either. Only thing you can do is die without losing your s*hi*t and that-¦s fine.
Yes, I know skynet was different, I just said the arguments from the abusers where the same.
My argument is that HiCs are so strong they alone can be in power to shift the meta. They make the gameplay partly stale.
What is the argument for keeping the long range scram?
Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
|
Romvex
Jump Drive Appreciation Society Jump Drive Appreciation Alliance
572
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:06:19 -
[99] - Quote
There are some fantastically stupid posts here. Do you realize a Lachesis/Arazu or a Huginn/Rapier will do the exact same thing as a hic when countering kiters? Long webs do the job even better. Try actually doing something other than ratting in Esoteria and pressing F1 every now and then before crying that others won't stoop to your level of play by simply dying to a blob of clueless pubbies. |
Michael Oskold
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
27
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:06:27 -
[100] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Timm3h wrote:*tips orthrus* M' gameplay Unironically HIC scrams just made Orthrus' much more prolific, because it's one of the few kiting ships that can project outside HIC Scram range while also tackling ships outside HIC scram range. What HICs killed was solo brawling with MJDs entirely, cheap, affordable or accessible kiting ships (RIP anyone trying to just take out a nano thorax, cane or stabber etc.). Flying 100mn stuff + needing a Keres to even undock if you want to do non Orthrus stuff is getting boring.
pretty much this. 36k scrams made plenty of things auto trash worthy. On ships that boast huge tanks and almost always run sebos to counter ecm, it was very frustrating to deal with. There was no counter gameplay, it was just "ggwp" |
|
Kagi Anzomi
CK-0FF Spaceship Samurai
2
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:07:28 -
[101] - Quote
Before the wall of text I'd like to ask for clarification: The -20% range is relative to the bubble size, right? The numbers given seem to be 50% lower than the current focused range, not 20%.
I'm definitely not very enthusiastic about this change. The only time I've seen HICs used in fleets is when there's a chance of catching supercapitals or when the scram range is absolutely necessary. The inability to receive remote reps while doing their job makes HICs very hard to manage in a fleet setting, to the point I see them getting completely replaced by Proteus, Lachesis, or in some cases Orthrus/Barghest.
In a gate camp setting they can be a little oppressive but the inability to receive reps is again a major disadvantage against anything that can fight back. I'll be the first to admit I have camped gates with a Devoter and remote sensor boosters. It's effective and the Devoter can solo many T1 cruisers and below, but this change is not going to fix that. Gate campers will always figure out a setup to point and scram victims as quickly and inescapably as possible, and it being a ship that can receive reps will likely make things even worse. Even before the change I would've used a Proteus instead of a Devoter if I could fly one, just because it's a lot less likely to die, and the extra scan resolution would be a welcome improvement.
So what would HICs actually be used for with only half the scram range? The only uses I can think of are permanently keeping a bubble up for camping in null or a wormhole, in which case an anchorable bubble is probably better, or tackling supercapitals, in which case Rorquals or a Proteus + Guardian fleet would be better.
I see the proposed change as the death of HICs unless they also gain the ability to receive remote assistance like all the other options can. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
411
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:09:28 -
[102] - Quote
In all honesty, I dont think it will change small-scale PVP much. "Carebears" will only undock and fight when they are sure they can win. Take away HIC, and you take away some of their confidence. Which they either compensate with a couple of carriers, or the whole thing boils down to smack talk. In the end of the day, both sides will still be unsatisfied with the "cancerous" meta, as it has been since forever.
I'm more interested in consequences for fleet fights, which are not so obvious. As HICs will be deemed useless, we can see command destroyers finally shine as they were supposed to. Or maybe not. Also, further nerfs to once a cornerstone of capital fights, and a link between subcaps and caps, the HIC, will help to shift the meta to caps-only. Carrier is a new battleship, as the word goes, and this change only reinforces that. It will be even trickier for CCP to find a place for actual battleships. Or probably they have some trump up the sleeve, who knows. Some Networked Cluster Barrel which makes their signature as small as a frigate.
So what really bothers me is that they are trying to solve minor or non-existing problems, while keeping sheer swathes of gameplay in a fairly poor state. |
Adolf Mekansm
Tardigrade
21
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:16:58 -
[103] - Quote
So now a HIC is absolutly useless as it was before, and it has worst range than a gallente recon for a way more expensive hull...
Why ?
HIC became used, and just used, not overused. It was great ! It makes some pilot didn't able to adapt whine, but it was far away from being overused.
No one use them to takle super nowardays anyway. Without a great scram range these rip have no purpose to exist. Even worst than an Orthrus... |
Tomoko Sunji
Drama Sutra Incorporated.
1
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:19:32 -
[104] - Quote
Kagi Anzomi wrote:Before the wall of text I'd like to ask for clarification: The -20% range is relative to the bubble size, right? The numbers given seem to be 50% lower than the current focused range, not 20%.
HICs will still point at the same range but will scramble at 20km max.
Kagi Anzomi wrote: to the point I see them getting completely replaced by Proteus, Lachesis, or in some cases Orthrus/Barghest..
That's because HICs should have never ever been able to remplace those ships.
Kagi Anzomi wrote: So what would HICs actually be used for with only half the scram range?
Bubble fleets, tackle caps / supercaps, prevent caps from jumping though gates, scramble at 20km subcaps.
Kinda like... what it always was supposed to do ? |
Fleshgrind
The Graduates The Initiative.
6
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:20:34 -
[105] - Quote
I see no reason for this change. Nobody in my inner Ever circle of friends were calling for this or complained how overpowered it was. Where did the need for this change come from? If this was a push by the CSM it has misrepresented the community in my opinion. |
Jack Barros
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
2
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:26:46 -
[106] - Quote
Another ship class relegated to the trash heap. Cool.
Of all the balance changes that could possibly be made, THIS was the one you decided to go with? |
Trajan Unknown
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
114
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:27:01 -
[107] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Trajan Unknown wrote:
Skynet was a complete different thing and it had to be nerfed no question.
HiCs? They are ******* limited in what they can do and when I said "run" I meant you don-¦t have to commit at all. A HiC has no real power projection over a a grid, let alone system. Fighters were pretty much a "shut the whole system down" thingy. Outside of plexes that means. If you want to commit to a fight with a HiC do it else simply don-¦t. So please, where is your argument? At least give me a weak one. The "meta needs changing" is no balance argument at all it barely is one for gameplay. Posts before me mentioned some "hard counters" to HiCs already so there is something. Running 100mn cruisers because of HiCs sound weird to be honest. Running 100mn cruisers for several reasons sounds legit. They are a pain in the ass to pin down except you have "web superiority" and can apply them in time. Else you can fuc*k*ng run MWDs and commit. After all it-¦s no different from getting caught in close range cruisers by a nano-gang with ceptor support. Can-¦t touch the ceptors really, can-¦t run either. Only thing you can do is die without losing your s*hi*t and that-¦s fine.
Yes, I know skynet was different, I just said the arguments from the abusers where the same. My argument is that HiCs are so strong they alone can be in power to shift the meta. They make the gameplay partly stale. What is the argument for keeping the long range scram?
I stated several points before but ok, let-¦s make a short list.
- HICs are an essential tool in close to midrange fleet compositions when fighting longer ranged compositions.
- HICs are an essential tool to shut down certain ships/compositions which are able to project pretty well against the common tackler like rapid lights, tracking bonused cruisers and alike.
- HICs allow small fleets to shut down a certain part of the grid against stuff that would kite them all the time. Still possible of course and by no means a hard counter.
- HICs by themself can be countered super easily, they need force multiplier to become really nasty.
- The only thing that HICs shut down pretty much entirely are solo battleship pilots and people who like to fly MWDs on nano ships and run into a gatecamp. Besides that, I don-¦t see anything that speaks for a HIC nerf and tbh, solo should never ever be a reason to buff/nerf something. It-¦s nice to fly solo and I personally enjoy it too from time to time but it is no basis for balance at all.
As said before, I hate it too when I run into certain compositions when I fly solo or with a couple friends but that-¦s ******* EvE. Bubblecamps, frigate blobs with ecm, rapid light missile compositions you name it. There are a lot of things that really grind my gears but do I want to see such things nerfed? No, absolutely not! Not too long ago I was thinking about the whole fleet meta. I dislike the fact that everyone is "anchoring up" and apply dps with a logi wing attached. But it is the most efficient way and people got used to it. Everything else you might wanna try needs a ton more effort, more piloting skills and has more options to screw up. Therefore people don-¦t do it and I dislike that. But do I want to force people giving up on this fleet meta? Hell no, just because I don-¦t like it, doesn-¦t mean it should be enforced. Same for HiCs and all the other things people complain about. Yes, sometimes maybe even the majority of times you fly solo or in a small gang and you get cooked by some blob, camp or whatever and it is not nice to say the least but that-¦s the game and your choice. You can blob with your friends, take on someone who is not as good as you and enjoy killing him in a solo ship or you can keep complaining about things and ask for nerfs because you want to enforce your gameplay. The latter is just a bad approach on things. To finish things up, people remember the svipul camps in low-sec? Just a ******* svipul on the gate or maybe two of them. They will pretty much instant lock anything that comes through and blap it and you can-¦t do **** against it except you know beforehand that they are there. It-¦s super nasyt, it-¦s hated by a lot of players, including myself. But it-¦s part of the game and it-¦s fine to have such things in EvE.
|
l0rd carlos
TURN LEFT
1309
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:28:22 -
[108] - Quote
Fleshgrind wrote:Nobody in my inner Ever circle of friends were calling for this or complained how overpowered it was. Where did the need for this change come from? If this was a push by the CSM it has misrepresented the community in my opinion.
Your circle of friends is not the whole community ;-)
Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
|
Jack Barros
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
2
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:29:50 -
[109] - Quote
Also:
CCP Larrikin wrote: WARP DISRUPTION FIELD GENERATORS The current state of Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators is a little too oppressive, especially to the small gang PvP scene. We'd like to open up propulsion module options.
lmao. HICs everywhere! Every small gang has one!
|
Suitonia
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
762
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:31:24 -
[110] - Quote
Adolf Mekansm wrote:So now a HIC is absolutly useless as it was before, and it has worst range than a gallente recon for a way more expensive hull...
Why ?
HIC became used, and just used, not overused. It was great ! It makes some pilot didn't able to adapt whine, but it was far away from being overused.
No one use them to takle super nowardays anyway. Without a great scram range these rip have no purpose to exist. Even worst than an Orthrus...
Actually it still scrams at the same range as an Orthrus does. Just the Orthrus can get links to scram further than it. HICs shouldn't replace ships like the Lachesis, Arazu, Keres for scramming. which they did. For the record, I think CCP should remove the scram bonus from the Orthrus and leave just the Disruptor bonus (opposite to Maulus Navy)
HICs are still incredibly tanky, get additional scramblers at no cost to tank by fitting high slots, have a bubble, incredible EHP for their size, can infi-point to 39.4km and stop capitals from jumping or taking gates. I think they'll still have a solid place in eve, they just won't be a 1 ship counter to all that they are right now for defense gangs.
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos
Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
|
|
Jack Barros
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
2
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:31:54 -
[111] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Fleshgrind wrote:Nobody in my inner Ever circle of friends were calling for this or complained how overpowered it was. Where did the need for this change come from? If this was a push by the CSM it has misrepresented the community in my opinion. Your circle of friends is not the whole community ;-)
TURN LEFT show us on the doll where the HIC touched you.
|
l0rd carlos
TURN LEFT
1310
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:38:31 -
[112] - Quote
Jack Barros wrote:l0rd carlos wrote:Fleshgrind wrote:Nobody in my inner Ever circle of friends were calling for this or complained how overpowered it was. Where did the need for this change come from? If this was a push by the CSM it has misrepresented the community in my opinion. Your circle of friends is not the whole community ;-) TURN LEFT show us on the doll where the HIC touched you.
On my MWD, I thought that was clear?
Make mwds great again. Now we just need a medium AC adjustment.
Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
|
Mizhir
TURN LEFT
74875
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:38:54 -
[113] - Quote
Jack Barros wrote:l0rd carlos wrote:Fleshgrind wrote:Nobody in my inner Ever circle of friends were calling for this or complained how overpowered it was. Where did the need for this change come from? If this was a push by the CSM it has misrepresented the community in my opinion. Your circle of friends is not the whole community ;-) TURN LEFT show us on the doll where the HIC touched you.
*Points at the 100mn AB*
One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
|
rhiload Feron-drake
TURN LEFT
116
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:41:01 -
[114] - Quote
Yes. |
MerlinWR
CBC Interstellar Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:42:05 -
[115] - Quote
Quote:Changes: Remove the Warp Scrambling effect from the Focused Warp Disruption Script Introduce a new Focused Warp Scrambling Script with a -20% range bonus
The new Focused Warp Scrambling Script will have the following ranges (with max skills): T1: 16km Meta: 18km T2: 20km Faction: 21km
Just remove hics from the game.... |
Mira Chieve
Know your Role League of Unaligned Master Pilots
24
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:46:42 -
[116] - Quote
Good change, it makes nano battleships a bit more usable.Which is good.
Also, could the nullsec blobbers please stop blobbing this thread with replies concerning something they have no idea about? The real counter to kiting - 70km webs - still exists.
Or maybe instead of crying you could - I don-¦t know - undock a Maulus and damp the kiter?
Oh wait, you can-¦t group damps - you would actually have to press more than just F1.
CCPls |
Romana Erebus
Syndicate Enterprise Northern Coalition.
57
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:50:11 -
[117] - Quote
No people kite because it triggers you because all you press is f1 and are too fat and lazy to learn to kite yourself.
Ted McManfist wrote:Mizhir wrote:Hans Downherpantz wrote:brawling dies again People kite because they don't want to get blobbed to oblivion. It allows them to disengage when the enemy throws a couple of caps after a handful of subcaps. People kite because they are risk averse, not because they fear the blob.
|
Tung Yoggi
Null Sect
153
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:50:27 -
[118] - Quote
Ted McManfist wrote:Mizhir wrote:Hans Downherpantz wrote:brawling dies again People kite because they don't want to get blobbed to oblivion. It allows them to disengage when the enemy throws a couple of caps after a handful of subcaps. People kite because they are risk averse, not because they fear the blob.
Let's start by saying that all Eve players are risk averse, to a point. Yes, our virtual belongings can be destroyed or stolen.
While a kiter is risk averse because he has means to dodge death (nanofibers + MWD), the goon is risk averse because he surrounds himself with 15000 other characters and countless blues (~diplomacy~)
Everyone has the right to be a coward. We should all get our coward's tools, for the sake of equality. |
Trajan Unknown
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
114
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:53:27 -
[119] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Adolf Mekansm wrote:So now a HIC is absolutly useless as it was before, and it has worst range than a gallente recon for a way more expensive hull...
Why ?
HIC became used, and just used, not overused. It was great ! It makes some pilot didn't able to adapt whine, but it was far away from being overused.
No one use them to takle super nowardays anyway. Without a great scram range these rip have no purpose to exist. Even worst than an Orthrus... Actually it still scrams at the same range as an Orthrus does. Just the Orthrus can get links to scram further than it. HICs shouldn't replace ships like the Lachesis, Arazu, Keres for scramming. which they did. For the record, I think CCP should remove the scram bonus from the Orthrus and leave just the Disruptor bonus (opposite to Maulus Navy) HICs are still incredibly tanky, get additional scramblers at no cost to tank by fitting high slots, have a bubble, incredible EHP for their size, can infi-point to 39.4km and stop capitals from jumping or taking gates. I think they'll still have a solid place in eve, they just won't be a 1 ship counter to all that they are right now for defense gangs.
Well and that is pretty narrow minded.
If you can and if it fits your comp, take an Lacheis and an Arazu for control supremacy. Just because a lot of people don-¦t realise that force multipliers add up way better than adding another "HIC" doesn-¦t mean the HIC is too strong. If possible, I take combat recons over HICs any time but sometimes you just need the ridiculous tank a HIC can offer you. Mostly in mid to large fleets. An Arazu wont cut it there where a HIC is a pegleg in small gangs or BLOPs stuff. It doesn-¦t hinder a lot of people to use a HIC in their small gang stuff but it doesn-¦t make it great either. Complete different roles for both hulls. And the people who are asking for a nerf simply don-¦t get that - it seems.
And yes I know I sound like a HIC fanatic but for the record, most of the times I am at the receiving end of the HIC point and actually lost 2 pretty expensive haulers on my alt to "solo HICs" over the last ~2years. Enraging moments but well, that-¦s EvE eh?
|
Sonia Lane
nul-li-fy Circle-Of-Two
0
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 17:54:50 -
[120] - Quote
InSTiiNK Loutte wrote:After giving the ability to Rorqual to be SuperHictors, and you know retrograte HICs to be **** pointers.
I find the idea absolutely ridiculous.
In my honest opinion, you CCP, better keep proper gamerplay to proper ship types, and the last ship that needs a nerf is a HIC, and the first, is the Rorqual. So before Nerfing any other ships, nerf rorquals to give them back their natural gameplay, mining. At the same time, I find this very funny from a Pandemic Legion guy, upgrading Rorquals, and now they don't need HICs anymore, they downgrade them. :)
"My job here is done"
Best Regards, InSTiiNK Loutte
^ This! |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 .. 15 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |