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Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.26 01:41:00 -
[1]
Revelations I is just around the corner and with that a completely revised probe system. This post will try to serve as a guide to that system and I will do my best to keep it updated with any changes and other relevant information.
Scan probing in Revelations
This guide will focus on ship probing so if itÆs a guide to exploration or moon surveying you want you will have to look elsewhere. This guide assumes you posses at least basic control over how the Directional Scanner work.
To do scan probing we need a few things, namely a probe launcher, probes, a ship to mount it on and the skills to use them all.
Skills
- Astrometrics - Adds one scan group per level. Is the primary skill that determines what probes you can use.
For example all exploration probes require level 5 and so do Observator probes. For combat ship probing level 3 will do fine unless the target is in a deep safe for which level 5 is need.
- Astrometric Pinpointing û Reduces maximum scan deviation by 10% per level.
Means that you can use a weaker probe and still get a result that lands you in the same grid as the target.
- Astrometric Triangulation û 5% scan strength bonus per level of skill.
Higher scan strength means easier to find the target and more accurate results.
- Signal Acquisition - 10% faster scanning with scan probes per level.
Must have skill, will cut scan time in half at level 5. Sadly itÆs rank 8.
Probe Launchers
There are 2 different probe launchers, Scan Probe Launcher I and Recon Probe Launcher I. They have similar fittings (220cpu, 1pg / 220cpu, 2pg) and despite its name the recon probe launcher is not force recon exclusive. It can be used on any ship.
- Scan Probe Launcher I û 600 sec base cycle time (can be cut down to 108.4 sec). 10m3 capacity. 15 sec rate of fire. Intended to be used for moon surveys and exploration.
- Recon Probe Launcher I û 120 sec base cycle time (can be cut down to 21.7 sec) 1m3 capacity 2.5 sec rate of fire. Intended to be used for ship probing.
The reason the Recon Probe Launcher can not be used for moon survey and exploration is the simple fact that the probes are too large to fit in it.
ItÆs not possible to fit multiple probe launchers on a ship, not even offline. You have to choose which one you want in advance.
Probes
There are 3 different groups of probes. Ship probes, exploration probes and survey probes. Ship probes are the probes that fit into the Recon Probe Launcher. They include:
- Observator Deep Space Probe I - 1000 au range, 1 point sensor strength, 20.000 km max scan deviation, 4800 sec flight time.
- Ferret Scanner Probe I - 40 au range, 2.5 points sensor strength, 10.000 km max scan deviation. 2400 sec flight time.
- Spook Scanner Probe I - 20 au range, 5 points sensor strength, 5.000 km max scan deviation, 1200 sec flight time.
- Fathom Scanner Probe I - 10 au range, 10 points sensor strength, 2.500 km max scan deviation, 600 sec flight time.
- Snoop Scanner Probe I - 5 au range, 20 points sensor strength, 200 km max scan deviation, 300 sec flight time.
Range - The max range of the probe, this is a 3d sphere and the probe will not be able to find anything outside this range. Sensor Strength - Higher sensor strength means larger chance to find the target and more accurate results. Max Scan Deviation - The maximum distance from the target any scans with this probe will give. Flight Time û The amount of time the probe stays in space. You need to finish any scan before the flight time runs out or it will fail.
All the other probes are uninteresting for ship scanning. While the exploration probes have very high sensor strength they also have very low range making them unsuited for ship probing.
-- Continues in next post --
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Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.26 01:42:00 -
[2]
Ships
The ship of choice for probing is the Covert Ops frigates. There are 2 reasons for this, one is the built in bonus of 10% reduction to scan time per level (level 5 cuts the scan time in half) and the other is the ability to warp cloaked. If you canÆt get a 0 m accuracy result you will need to warp in cloaked and approach manually.
Other ships that are useful for probing is the cloaking force recon ships for the warp cloaked ability and possibly the t1 astrometrics frigate as they have a 5% reduction to scan time per level. But in worst case any ship can be used.
Basic probing So your target is sitting in afk in a safe spot and you want to find him? This is how itÆs done.
First warp around a bit and see if you can find him on the directional scanner. If you can see him; get to the closest object and drop the needed probe. Use the range option on your scanner to determine which probe is needed. 5 au = 750.000.000 km, 10 au = 150.000.000.000 km. So if you can get within 750.000.000 km use the 5au probe etc. Max range of the directional scanner is 14.5 au.
If you canÆt find him on the scanner you need to use longer range probes, probably Observator Deep Space Probes or possibly 40 au Ferret probes.
After you launch the probe open your scanner, selec the System Scanner tab, select the probe and select the ôShipsö group (you might as well include as many groups as your astrometrics skill allow, there is no penalty in using several groups).
Click ôAnalyzeö at the bottom of the window. A timer will appear counting down. If you want you can cloak now but do NOT warp away. If you do the scan will fail. You can switch to the Directional Scan tab and use that without breaking the probe.
When the timer reaches 0 you will get a list with results. If your target is not in this list donÆt fret it. The probing system is now chance base and you might need to scan several times (20+ if you are looking for a very small ship with an observator probe). But first recheck your scanner to see that he is in range of the probe you choose. If he is in range just click ôNew Scanö and hit analyze again. Repeat until the target is found.
You can also see the results on the system map as colored dots. The color indicate the Signal strength. 0-0.4 = yellow 0.4-0.8 = green 0.8+ = red You can warp to the results by right click on them and choose warp to. But at the time of writing that feature is bugged and will take you to a random result instead of the one you chose. Therefore you should use the results list on the scanner window instead.
In the result list there are 4 columns. The first is ship type, second is signal strength (more about that in the advanced guide), third is the range from your current position and forth is Accuracy. Accuracy is the range from the spot the probe provides to the target.
Accuracy is determined by several factors where the most important is the probe type and signal strength (see advanced section for formulas). Longer range probes give larger max deviation from the target. There is also some randomness involved here so a new scan might give a more accurate result (or worse). If you can get the Signal Strength above 1.0 with 1 probe you will always get 0m accuracy and can warp in right on top of the target. As long as you are using ship probes you should never get an accuracy result above 20.000 km
If the accuracy is not good enough to get inside the same grid as the target you might need to launch and scan with a shorter range probe. Warp to the result by right clicking on it and choose warp to. Click new scan and right click on the probe you used and choose ôdestroy probeö. The reason for this is the fact that you can not launch a probe within the scan radius of another probe. Now launch a 5au (snoop) probe and scan with that. Worst case scenario with that probe will land you just 200km away, most likely a lot closer.
-- Continues in next post --
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Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.26 01:43:00 -
[3]
Advanced Probing
Signal Strength
Signal Strength decides how large the chance is that the target will show up on a given scan and also effect accuracy. A Signal strength of 0.5 means 50% chance, 1.0 or more give 100% chance etc.
Signal strength is a factor of the sensor strength of the probe, the signal size of the target, the range from the probe to the target and any skills you might have. Sensor strength is listed in the probe attributes. Target Signal Size = Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength
Large target = easier to find, target with high sensor strength = harder to find. These values can be modified, a target with several shield extenders will have larger signature radius and be easier to find while a target with ECCM will have higher sensor strength and will be harder find.
Range is something close to the following formula. It is not 100% accurate but should be good enough for most practical purposes. If anyone wants to take a shot at finding a better formula let me know and I will provide you with sample data.
Range Multiplier = (1 û (0.65 ((Target Range / Max Range)^1.5)) Target Range is the range from the probe to the target, Max Range is the Scan Range listed for that probe type.
This formula will return a result between 1 (at 0km) and 0.35 (at very close to max range).
The full formula to calculate Signal Strength is: Signal Strength = (Probe Sensor Strength * (1 + Level of Signal Acquisition * 0.05) / 100) * (1 û (0.65 ((Target Range / Max Range) ^ 1.5))) * (Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength)
A math example: we are using a Ferret 40 au probe to try to locate a Scorpion 35 au away. We have Signal Acquisition level 3. Signal Strength = (2.5 * (1 + 3*0.1) / 100) * (1 - (0.65 ((35 / 40) ^ 1.5))) * (480 / 24) = 0.304 or 30.4% chance it will show up on our scan. Accuracy
Accuracy is a factor of the max scan deviation, the signal strength of the scan, any skills you might have and a random number.
If the signal strength of the probe is 1.0 or more the accuracy will always be 0m (unless you are using multiple probes).
The formula to calculate Maximum effective Scan Deviation is: Maximum effective Scan Deviation = Maximum Scan Deviation * ((0.6 * (Signal Strength ^ 2)) û (1.6 * Signal Strength) + 1) * (1 - Level of Astrometric Pinpointing * 0.1)
The accuracy of the scan is then a linear random range between 0km and the Max effective Scan deviation. Linear meaning itÆs just as likely to return 0 as it is to return max eff scan dev or anything between.
Math example: We will use the scorp from the last example, we also have astrometric pinpointing level 3. Max effective Scan Deviation = 10000 * ((0.6 * (0.304 ^ 2)) - (1.6 * 0.304) + 1) * (1 - 3 * 0.1) = 3983km. So each successful scan will give a random accuracy between 0km and 3983km. This means there is a 12.5% chance you will get a result in the same grid as the target.
-- Continues in next post --
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Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.26 01:44:00 -
[4]
Multiple Probes
You can use multiple probes to affect the outcome of the scan. The probes need to be dropped so the target is inside the intersection of the probes but so that the probes are not located inside the scan range of any other probe.
Using multiple probes effect 2 things, Signal Strength and Accuracy.
Signal strength is the signal strength of each individual probe added together and divided by some yet to be determined modifier. This modifier is larger for shorter range probes and is large enough so that if you combine 2 probes of very different range (5 + 20 or 20 + 40) you will actually get a result that less than if you just used the shorter range probe alone.
Accuracy of multiple probes is better than a single probe would be but worse than the effective signal strength would indicate. So even if you can get the signal strength above 1.0 you will still not get 0m accuracy. 1/10th of the maximum scan deviation seems to be the best you can obtain using multiple probes.
Using multiple probes are for most practical purposes inefficient, you are better of using the time it takes to find positions for the extra probes to just do more scans with just 1 probe. BUT there is one exception from this.
The only practical use of multiple probes are to drop 2 or 3 Spook (20 au) probes just outside the scanner range (14.5au) of the target. This allows you to run a scan which if you have trained several levels of Astrometric Pinpointing will land you 250-500km from the target; in the same grid as it without ever being seen on his scanner.
Rigs
There is one rig that effect scan probing. Gravity Capacitor Upgrade. The T1 version give 10% less scan time and the T2 15%. The reduction is not stacking penalised.
Directional Scanner
ItÆs still possible to see probes on the directional scanner by setting it to not use overview settings, even easier now as a lot of stuff like npcs and roids have been removed from this list so it will come up much faster and be less clutered.
To counter act this we now have the ability to destroy the probes at will by right clicking on it in the system scanner tab and choose destroy probe, you can even do this while cloaked. Destroying a probe will not destroy the results so you can go back and look at them by clicking view results.
You should destroy your probes as soon as you got the results you want from them, especially short range probes. Done right it should only show up on the scanner of the target for around 30-40 sec, short enough time for him to miss it.
Cloaked ships
At the time of writing it is NOT possible to probe for cloaked ships. A dev said in a blog it would be possible to probe for them but it seems they either changed their mind, forgot about it or haven't got it to work yet.
Known Bugs
ItÆs not possible to use the results shown on the system map to warp to them. Doing so will warp you to a random result.
ItÆs possible to drop multiple probes so that one probe is completely inside the range of another. This is done by dropping the smaller probe first and then the larger probe outside the range of the smaller one. Doing this will probably be considered an exploit so don't do it (considering how useless multiple probes are, especially when you combine probes of different range I don't really see this as very important).
Attributes window show sensor strength truncated. This is most apparent on Ferret probe as it is shown to have 2 points strength but in reality have 2.5 points. You will also notice this on other probes if you have trained the probe strength skill and look at them fitted.
There still seem to be some issues with the displaying of probe spheres on the system map. They sometimes appear off centre from their dropped position.
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Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.26 01:45:00 -
[5]
-- Reserved --
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Samirol
Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.26 02:06:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Samirol on 26/11/2006 02:06:03 wow, thanks, i will definitely use this
**** forum whoring message, the one that says "you are going too fast"
the biggest nerf with kali is the one to forum *****s
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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.26 02:16:00 -
[7]
Great guide, sure deserves a slot in the disambiguation sticky =)
Last Weeks Signature |
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.11.26 02:28:00 -
[8]
Exploration and probing
Kali also introduces proper exploration, in the form of various hidden encounters. These can be any number of things - there are over 250 being introduced in Kali 1, which get more interesting and much harder as you move from Empire to Lowsec to 0.0. I've been playing around in a COSMOS constellation in 0.0 and I've found gas clouds (for booster manufacturing), straight-up complexes, archaeological sites, hidden databanks, rogue drone outposts, hidden roid fields full of ark and bistot... There's plenty of riches to be found, but you need to use scan probes to do it
Basic mechanics
Exploration probes use exactly the same mechanics as ship scanning probes - same skills, same equations etc. You need to use a Scan Probe Launcher rather than a Recon Probe Launcher, simply because (as Hoshi says) you can't fit an exploration probe in a Recon Launcher because the probes are too big. Other than that, the basics all work the same way.
Exploration sites themselves seem to spawn within 1 and 4 AU of planets in system. It seems that you'll only get one per system maximum, and some systems may be entirely empty at a particular point in time. These sites move around in some manner related to player activity - I suspect that once they deem themselves "exhausted" they despawn, moving elsewhere in the system or to another system entirely.
Finding an exploration site
Exploration sites cannot be found using the system scanner - you have to probe them down using the exploration probes. These come in four flavours and four ranges:
[Type] Quest Probe - 4 au range, 250 points primary sensor strength, 50 points other sensor strength, 2.088 au max scan deviation, 4000 sec flight time. [Type] Pursuit Probe - 2 au range, 500 points primary sensor strength, 100 points other sensor strength, 6,250,000 km max scan deviation, 2000 sec flight time. [Type] Comb Probe - 1 au range, 1000 points primary sensor strength, 200 points other sensor strength, 125,000 km max scan deviation, 1000 sec flight time. [Type] Sift Probe - 0.5au range, 2000 points primary sensor strength, 400 points other sensor strength, 2,500km max scan deviation, 500 sec flight time.
The four types available are Gravimetric, Magnetometric, RADAR and LADAR. A Gravimetric Quest Probe will have 250 points of gravimetric sensor strength and 50 points each of Magnetometric, RADAR and LADAR.
The technique I've been using is to spam outer planets with Quests and try and get as much coverage of the inner planets as possible with the same.
Each site seems to have a set value for the "sig radius/sensor strength" ratio, generally between 0.1 and 0.2. If you do some calculations for ships you'll see that this is a pretty low number, equivalent to a ceptor with 200 or so sensor strength. Further, they each seem to have a particular type of probe that works best with them. Most Guristas sites I've found have been amenable to Gravimetric probes, which leads me to believe it's largely racial, but I've found one that required RADAR (more later).
In any event, you take a lucky guess on the sensor type, set up your probes and analyse. At this stage you'll be looking for a signal strength between 0.1 and 0.4 on the right probe type, down to 0.05 or below if you've guessed wrong. This means it can take ten or fifteen tries to guarantee a result, but the probes last for an hour and a bit so you can afford to sit around, keep an eye on local (you can't analyse when cloaked) and keep trying until you get something.
(Cont)
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.11.26 02:28:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Joerd Toastius on 26/11/2006 02:29:10 Once you get your initial contact life gets a lot easier. It'll show up on the system map (although as Hoshi notes don't try warping to it, it just takes you to the first result on the list which is usually a shuttle), so figure out where it is and try to see how close you can get. The rest is fairly obvious - drop the shortest-range probe you can that'll still scan it, and keep analysing until you get a good result, warp to that, analyse again if necessary... you get the picture. You'll usually be able to go from a Quest straight to a Sift, meaning the others will be used mainly for extra coverage around inner planets if at all.
You really need a result with under 100km or so deviation before you can be confident you've found anything. Many sites won't spawn unless you warp into the grid they're in, and as you can't use the directional scanner to find them, if you land in a different grid 400km away you're basically screwed. This is where racial stuff becomes particularly important - you can find a site with the "wrong type" of Quests, you can get close enough to drop a Sift of the "wrong type", but using said Sift (or rather, lots of them) will usually get you to the point where you're sitting >500km away from the result and you're getting scan deviations which would actually take you further away. Not useful.
Once you have your 0m result, be very careful with it. Some sites drop you at an empty deadspace gate, some drop you at a gate with passive hostiles near it, and some drop you straight into the line of fire. If you go in with a covops, go cloaked, bookmark quickly and run away again - I've lost I think two covops on SiSi to enemy fire in this way.
Once you've got the bookmark you're basically done with the exploration aspect, at least until you find the next step of an escalating path. Gas clouds aside, the stuff I've found in 0.0 is not suitable for covops ships. Some of the plexes are supposed to be 10/10 equivalent difficulty.
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Zhaine
B e l l u m
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Posted - 2006.11.26 03:04:00 -
[10]
<3 <3 <3
Sticky sticky sticky
Nice one mate - - - - - - - - - -
"PERGITE DEGUSTATE FORMOSUM BELLUM"
Forward to taste the beautiful war. . . |
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Kunming
Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.26 03:13:00 -
[11]
Thx for the well thought out post and good efford.
But all I have to say is: More chance based game mechanics YAY!... NOT!!
I thought CCP learned something out of the ECM fiasco.. With each passing day EVE is turning into a chance based game of chess
Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
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Chronus26
Gallente Dark Blood Contracts
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Posted - 2006.11.26 03:19:00 -
[12]
Very very nice.
I spent a few hours playing about in FD- with probes (dunno is anyone noticed me popping in and out of there SS's etc ) And although the maths-ey stuff I cant confirm, I can vouch that this guide is pretty accurate as to how the new probing system works.
As for scanning cloaked ships - I dropped about 30 probes all over the system and not once did I get a result for a Force Recon or a Covert Ops. Doubt that nobody out of maybe a couple or hundred people in local was flying a cloaker so i'm inclined to agree that you CANNOT Scan probe cloaked ships as things stand.
Once again good work on the guide Hoshi ----- Move along, nothing to see here... |
Imhotep Khem
Total Mayhem.
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Posted - 2006.11.26 03:58:00 -
[13]
I like the new system. I hate the new chance. Seems like some of the original devs must have left as every day we see the advent of more and more dice rolls. When even finally tanks, everyone will point to the dice... ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle |
Chronus26
Gallente Dark Blood Contracts
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Posted - 2006.11.26 04:25:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Imhotep Khem I like the new system. I hate the new chance. Seems like some of the original devs must have left as every day we see the advent of more and more dice rolls. When even finally tanks, everyone will point to the dice...
It's definatly not as chance heavy as ECM... from what I could tell it hardly affects anything at all. IMO its best to have that tiny margin of chance in there so it isn't just a case of "train all skills to lvl 5 and w1n" ----- Move along, nothing to see here... |
Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.26 04:31:00 -
[15]
I wish they'd have improved the stats of the Recon Probe launcher, it's not exactly different or easier to fit unless you specialise heavily toward it. Astrometric 5 , covert op 5, recon 5 etc.
They mentioned the possibility of probing cloaked ships, is it harder to find cloaked ships or it gives out the same results as if it wasn't cloaked at all?
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Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.26 12:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kunming
But all I have to say is: More chance based game mechanics YAY!... NOT!!
I thought CCP learned something out of the ECM fiasco.. With each passing day EVE is turning into a chance based game of chess
I my opinion it's not so much about chance but mostly about statistics. If you have 30% chance to find someone that means on avg you need to do 3-4 scans before you find him, sometime less, sometimes more. If one scan takes you 30 sec than that target should take you 1.5-2min to find.
I guess they could have designed some system where harder to find ships required a much longer scan but such a system would be complicated to do with how modules work in eve. So they made a system that have in many ways the same practical effect.
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
They mentioned the possibility of probing cloaked ships, is it harder to find cloaked ships or it gives out the same results as if it wasn't cloaked at all?
Atm probing for cloaked ships on SiSi is like probing for cloaked ships on TQ, they won't show up at all. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Chewan Mesa
Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.26 15:05:00 -
[17]
Great guide, thanks a lot! Siganture removed due to profanity - Serathu ([email protected]) |
Chronus26
Gallente Dark Blood Contracts
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Posted - 2006.11.26 15:10:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Hoshi Atm probing for cloaked ships on SiSi is like probing for cloaked ships on TQ, they won't show up at all.
Poor Hoshi, how many times are you gonna have to repeat yourself before people believe you? ----- Move along, nothing to see here... |
Radioactive Babe
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Posted - 2006.11.26 15:45:00 -
[19]
Very nice guides guys ... thanks /me hugs astrometrics 5 and cov ops 4
Can anyone tell me what ranks those new skills are?
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Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.26 15:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Radioactive Babe Very nice guides guys ... thanks /me hugs astrometrics 5 and cov ops 4
Can anyone tell me what ranks those new skills are?
Astrometrics 5 and cov ops 5 here :)
Astrometric Pinpointing and Astrometric Triangulation are rank 5 and requires Astrometrics level 4 and 3 respectively, Signal Acquisition is rank 8 and requires Science level 3.
---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
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Atandros
Gallente Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.26 16:31:00 -
[21]
Thanks, that's an excellent and very well-written guide. -------
Sun! Sex! Sin! Death and destruction! |
Aakron
Hybrid Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.26 16:37:00 -
[22]
ty for a fantastic post ---
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.26 16:40:00 -
[23]
Very nice guide. Kudos!
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Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.26 17:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Aakron
edit: can anyone tell me (if they are on sisi) how much the probe bpos are seeded for
Ship and Survey probe BPOs are not seeded (at least not in caldari space). Exploration probe BPOs cost 4.6m each.
They have similar material requirements as Warp Disruptor Probes so in addition to the normal minerals they also requires Hypersynaptic fibers, Nanotransistors and Strontium Clathrates. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.11.26 17:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Aakron Edited by: Aakron on 26/11/2006 16:45:40 ty for a fantastic post
edit: can anyone tell me (if they are on sisi) how much the probe bpos are seeded for
Everything's been unseeded, sadly.
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Callistus
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.26 17:08:00 -
[26]
Thanks Hoshi, very nice guide.
One question; the range stated on the probes, is this the diameter or the radius of the area scanned? --------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.11.26 17:16:00 -
[27]
Radius, last time I checked (ie, not the way it works currently)
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Heikki
Gallente Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated
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Posted - 2006.11.26 17:17:00 -
[28]
Thanks for the very nice and well written guide. Bear with me with some clarifications (which are probably obvious to any Kali tester):
1) The system introduces scan groups: do these include every interesting target (for non-explorer)? Namely, can you probe for (secure) cans, warp gates, NPCs/structures? Or in other words: do the new probes remove the need for manual (mid-BMs + scanner) locating?
2) Observators introduce 1000 AU range. Does that imply that any target farthen than that distacen from some warpable object is impossible to find?
3) The highest deviation is 20 000 km instead of dozens AUs in RMR. This seems to imply there will not be any way to create new deep safe spots in Kali. Currently in RMR you can create safespots at any distance and any direction just depending on your patience, by iteratively abusing Observator's large deviation.
(Regardless of probing efficiency, the main point of such deep space spots is to be outside of directional scanner range)
-Lasse thankfully
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.11.26 17:25:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Heikki Thanks for the very nice and well written guide. Bear with me with some clarifications (which are probably obvious to any Kali tester):
1) The system introduces scan groups: do these include every interesting target (for non-explorer)? Namely, can you probe for (secure) cans, warp gates, NPCs/structures? Or in other words: do the new probes remove the need for manual (mid-BMs + scanner) locating?
2) Observators introduce 1000 AU range. Does that imply that any target farthen than that distacen from some warpable object is impossible to find?
3) The highest deviation is 20 000 km instead of dozens AUs in RMR. This seems to imply there will not be any way to create new deep safe spots in Kali. Currently in RMR you can create safespots at any distance and any direction just depending on your patience, by iteratively abusing Observator's large deviation.
(Regardless of probing efficiency, the main point of such deep space spots is to be outside of directional scanner range)
-Lasse thankfully
1) They include pretty much everything you can directional-scan under Kali. I don't have a comprehensive list, but this definitely does not include NPCs as they've been removed from directional scan entirely. Hoshi probably knows about cans; would need a mission-runner around to probe for gates (of which there are none where I'm testing).
2) To the best of my knowledge, yes. Probes only scan to their max range, so at longer ranges you're unfindable.
3) You can get higher deviations on exploration probes, but you'll rarely be in a position to invoke those deviations due to the strength of the probes, and in any case they only go out to 4AU so you'd need a lot of patience to create deep safes with them.
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Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.26 17:47:00 -
[30]
The scan groups are:
Drone & Probe - As the name says, drones and probes (only scan probes, warp distrupt probes are not picked up).
Scrap - This group was named Containers for a while and at that time could be used to find cans, now I have no idea what it picks up (does not pick up wrecks).
Ships - Player Ships, no npcs.
Cosmic Signature - Exploration content, don't know about mission gate and similar.
Structure - Pos structures, haven't tested to search for npc mission structures but I don't think it works on them.
---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
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