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Shi'ra Kull
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Posted - 2006.12.11 18:17:00 -
[241]
A piece of warning for explorers out there.
If you find something in 0.0 and you see this message.
"Your ship detects distress signals coming from inside this deadspace area. Perhaps the inhabitants are calling for reinforcements."
They REALLY mean it!
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Another Night
Solar Dragons
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Posted - 2006.12.11 19:02:00 -
[242]
Two big disappointments today:
First was the deadspace signal in F3- system. It appeared to be a hidden complex with cruiser-frigate NPC's on the 1st lvl. And some BS appeared a bit later. On the second level there were 3 BS, multiple cruisers and scrambling frigs, who aggroed all in the same moment I warped in. It doesn't matter that i lost my raven (next time i will be more careful). More important the fact that after I replaced it and invited my friend to gang we killed everything on the 2nd lvl and after that we destroyed Drug Lab stucture. AND NOTHING. We didn't get anything. The structure wreck was empty. BSs wrecks contained somy tiny t1 loot. Was it worth spending several hours searching for plex in 0.0, running it and getting really NOTHING??
The second disappointment is even bigger. We scanned down a plex ith about 10-15 npc BSs on the 1st lvl and multiple support. We gathered a gang of 6 Battleships (one tank ant five damage dealers). We killed everything there. On the second we destroyed a structure "Angel Battlestation". Should I say that we expected a really great loot? U know what did it contain? Miner I, Stasis webfire I and Passive Trageter I. And we also got 4 mil bounty each. SO???
The question is. Why should one spent A LOT of time, looking for hidden encounters, gathering gangs, and getting NOTHING????
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Admiral Tso
The Greater Goon The OSS
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Posted - 2006.12.11 19:23:00 -
[243]
if you have the accuracty of a scan down to 0km and you warp in cloaked in a covops, would that decloak you? |
Shi'ra Kull
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Posted - 2006.12.11 19:25:00 -
[244]
Alot of them have clouds that decloak you when you go through the acceleration gates, I havnt lost a covert yet though. Fingers crossed.
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Simon Jax
Gallente Freelancing Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.11 19:40:00 -
[245]
Questions for post SiSi testing (if possible):
1) Will ships in deadspaces found through Exploration be equally as difficult to scan down as those in mission deadspaces?
2) Would ships in asteroid belts found through Exploration be more difficult to scan down than one in a 'normal' asteroid belt? I expect this one to be "no" but thought I'd pose the question anyway.
3) It seems like this new Probe is intended to let you know which type (Maganometric, RADAR, etc.) to use in order to scan down a deadspace. Does a "find" with this probe guarantee the presence of a Cosmic Signature of some kind? i.e. - run this Multispectral Frequency Probe a few times and know (or have a good idea) if it's time to move on to the next system?
Here's hoping!
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.11 20:15:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Admiral Tso if you have the accuracty of a scan down to 0km and you warp in cloaked in a covops, would that decloak you?
Yes but you don't have to warp in at 0km, you can warp in at 10 or what ever you want.
For Simon Jax: I will test it again when I get home but yesterday probes where completely borked on sisi (see post earlier in the thread) and the multispectral probe had yet to be seeded. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.12.11 22:58:00 -
[247]
That said, some sites, being deadspace, will pull you in at 0m (once they've spawned) regardless.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.12 05:58:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Hoshi They seems to have completely borked scanning on sisi. Even with signal strengths up to 4-5 the targets still only show up once in every 20-30 scans. Doesn't matter if the target is in a deadspace area or not.
As it is now it would be faster to scan with the old probe system.
So to protect the missions runners CCP figures it's a good idea to nerf probeing into the ground for everyone.....nice.
Originally by: Wrangler Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
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Shi'ra Kull
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Posted - 2006.12.12 10:42:00 -
[249]
Quote: The second disappointment is even bigger. We scanned down a plex ith about 10-15 npc BSs on the 1st lvl and multiple support. We gathered a gang of 6 Battleships (one tank ant five damage dealers). We killed everything there. On the second we destroyed a structure "Angel Battlestation". Should I say that we expected a really great loot? U know what did it contain? Miner I, Stasis webfire I and Passive Trageter I. And we also got 4 mil bounty each. SO???
We did a harder version of that, I wont spoil the surprise for others out there but we went through 52 rats in the first stage. The loot from the final objective ? Passive targeter I, small nos, etc you get the picture.
It was a little disappointing.
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Khajit Smitty
Minmatar MisFunk Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.12 11:59:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Shi'ra Kull
We did a harder version of that, I wont spoil the surprise for others out there but we went through 52 rats in the first stage. The loot from the final objective ? Passive targeter I, small nos, etc you get the picture. It was a little disappointing.
Yeah had the same thing, close on 70 odd rats and a massive station with a nasty surprise, and all we got was a small kinetic smartbomb, muhahaha pathetic considering it took along time to do it.
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Khajit Smitty
Minmatar MisFunk Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.12 12:07:00 -
[251]
Has anyone tested the new exploration probe on Sisi ?
The one that scans 1000au for a deadspace signature, i would really like to know how it works.
is it a scan once and get a Cosmic signature back and then track the signatue down or is it a scan many times UNTIL you get a result? (i would prefer the many times, ie first attempt or 50th)
Anyone have any feedback?
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Dylan McKai
Splintered Shards of Europe
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Posted - 2006.12.12 12:20:00 -
[252]
I've been scanning in a few systems but haven't found any exploration sites yet. Do I really need to try random probe types (Gravimetric / Radar etc)?
I've been dropping Quest probes and Comb probes of all 4 types and all I see are occasional drones in belts and abandoned shuttles. Shouldn't there be at least one exploration site in every system? What am I doing wrong?
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Tao Tzu
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Posted - 2006.12.12 14:41:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Another Night Two big disappointments today:
First was the deadspace signal in F3- system. It appeared to be a hidden complex with cruiser-frigate NPC's on the 1st lvl. And some BS appeared a bit later. On the second level there were 3 BS, multiple cruisers and scrambling frigs, who aggroed all in the same moment I warped in. It doesn't matter that i lost my raven (next time i will be more careful). More important the fact that after I replaced it and invited my friend to gang we killed everything on the 2nd lvl and after that we destroyed Drug Lab stucture. AND NOTHING. We didn't get anything. The structure wreck was empty. BSs wrecks contained somy tiny t1 loot. Was it worth spending several hours searching for plex in 0.0, running it and getting really NOTHING??
The second disappointment is even bigger. We scanned down a plex ith about 10-15 npc BSs on the 1st lvl and multiple support. We gathered a gang of 6 Battleships (one tank ant five damage dealers). We killed everything there. On the second we destroyed a structure "Angel Battlestation". Should I say that we expected a really great loot? U know what did it contain? Miner I, Stasis webfire I and Passive Trageter I. And we also got 4 mil bounty each. SO???
The question is. Why should one spent A LOT of time, looking for hidden encounters, gathering gangs, and getting NOTHING????
Hello to Dev team û
If this is going to be a mini-profession, but I find the same things in these encounters that I can get in lvl 4 missions in empire (or less loot than that it seems) or I can do the same thing (safer) ratting in 0.0 then this is useless. Great, yes, rare roids and gas clouds (that we cannot mine yet) - please tweak and make this worth while.
Not everyone will train the skills to explore and even less with have the patience to do it.
Please think about it.
Thank you from a future-would-be-explorer
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Gcidious Con
Scandinavian Council The Scandinavian Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.12 15:25:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Tao Tzu
Hello to Dev team û
If this is going to be a mini-profession, but I find the same things in these encounters that I can get in lvl 4 missions in empire (or less loot than that it seems) or I can do the same thing (safer) ratting in 0.0 then this is useless. Great, yes, rare roids and gas clouds (that we cannot mine yet) - please tweak and make this worth while.
Not everyone will train the skills to explore and even less with have the patience to do it.
Please think about it.
Thank you from a future-would-be-explorer
Well let us see what changes tomorrows patch will bring us before we whine too much, aye?
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Simon Jax
Gallente Freelancing Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.12 16:02:00 -
[255]
I'm concerned that here we are the day before the patch and have yet to hear positive word as to the effectiveness of the probe re-vamp and the utility of the new probe.
I really hope they're getting the new stuff tested properly before implementing the patch. I'd rather probing stay as is than for them to kill it for the sake of a few mission runners.
Incidentally, I did have some success probing down a deadspace signature last night. A nice little area with only one rogue drone, but a rather decent amount of Gneiss in a 0.3(0.4?) system. Quite gratifying really.
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.13 01:21:00 -
[256]
Another patch on sisi and still no multispectral probe seeded.
It seems my earlier finding about probes being borked was in a way a bug and in a way a feature. For a time everything counted as it was a deadspace area. What does this mean in practice?
It means the whiners got their wish granted, it is now for all intent and purpose impossible to scan for mission runners (or any ship in a deadspace area).
There is an around 1/30 (3%) chance that a scan that would normally be successful will return a ship in a deadspace area. I don't know the exact number as I don't want to make the several hundred scans necessary to make this statistically correct. It could be even less.
You don't have to be inside the deadspace area, it's enough that you sit at the gate leading into it.
An accepted mission stays for a week, this means that if you get a mission in a system you end up with a safe for a week that is safer than a deep safe was in the old scan system. To find a battleship in a deadspace area with a ferret probe is going to take in the area of 50 to 100 scans which means around 30-60 minutes with really good skills. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Xebov Darklight
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Posted - 2006.12.13 02:38:00 -
[257]
So Ships Inside Deadspace got some kind of Sensorstrength-bonus as long as they are inside the Mission.
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Another Night
Solar Dragons
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Posted - 2006.12.13 10:39:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Gcidious Con
Well let us see what changes tomorrows patch will bring us before we whine too much, aye?
Well, there is no info about changes in Explorations in patch notes. Sadly to think, that a new profession is not worth it ((((
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Harlequ1n
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Posted - 2006.12.13 12:04:00 -
[259]
Exploration Guide:
1. Drop Quest probe by each planet in system (it doesn't matter what type) 2. Go to safe spot and analyze probes, then cloak 3. Wait approx 5 minutes, uncloak and analyze probes again 4. Re-cloak and repeat from step 3 for approx 1 hour 6. Dock, throw probes and scanner in corner of hanger and log
An efficient way, I've found, of burning a million isk an hour...
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Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.13 12:22:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Xebov Darklight So Ships Inside Deadspace got some kind of Sensorstrength-bonus as long as they are inside the Mission.
No they don't get a sensor strength bonus, once you find them they have the exact same signal strength as normal. It's a separate new roll to see if they can be found or not. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
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Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.13 15:12:00 -
[261]
A few more tests run on scanning for mission runners, nothing conclusive yet but it points to my earlier test being slightly off.
What I am now seeing is the effective signal strength is cut by 100. If the scan window show 1.0 the signal strength used for the calc was just 0.01 (1% chance).
Effectively it will have the same effect as I said in my last post, mission areas are not scannalble anymore, they have become super safes. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Simon Jax
Gallente Freelancing Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.13 15:23:00 -
[262]
Ok, so you can't scan ships that are in a deadspace mission, including ships that are at the gate to a deadspace and not actually in a mission.
Does this have any affect on finding ships that are in an Exploration Deadspace? Do these changes have any perceptible effect on 'Normal' Exploration scanning?
Sucks about the Multispectral probes. I hope they don't just throw it in the patch without it being playtested to some degree.
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
Shi'ra Kull
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Posted - 2006.12.13 16:48:00 -
[263]
Im sick to death of them dumbing everything down.
Skill requirments dropped, mechanics simplified and whiners catered for.
The exploration mechanic was pretty good in my experience. This new probe is not needed. Whats needed is fixing the loot drops on the existing exploration finds. Exploration is no fun if its as easy as drop one probe okay nothing here move on.
Giving mission runners unlimited safe spots? Why should they be safe ? Slow it down a bit sure but make it nearly impossible ? Silly.
Everyone in this gmae seems to want everything handed to them on a plate and for some reason CCP hands it to them.
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Xebov Darklight
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Posted - 2006.12.13 17:18:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Shi'ra Kull Im sick to death of them dumbing everything down.
Skill requirments dropped, mechanics simplified and whiners catered for.
The exploration mechanic was pretty good in my experience. This new probe is not needed. Whats needed is fixing the loot drops on the existing exploration finds. Exploration is no fun if its as easy as drop one probe okay nothing here move on.
Giving mission runners unlimited safe spots? Why should they be safe ? Slow it down a bit sure but make it nearly impossible ? Silly.
Everyone in this gmae seems to want everything handed to them on a plate and for some reason CCP hands it to them.
I dont think that they changed it to get Missionrunenrs save. I think thy did it because of the thiefs that scan the Missionrunenrs and move in with a Hauler to steal loot or shoot on the NPCs and warp out to get the Missionrunenrs Stageagro.
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Simon Jax
Gallente Freelancing Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.13 18:32:00 -
[265]
They released new content that didn't just allow Empire mission runners to be more vulnerable, it opened the door for downright grief-play. Some of the stuff going on with those mission runners was simply wrong from every angle. It's not about them being "totally safe in a bubble", it's about putting things back to a reasonable state. The recent vulnerabilities of mission runners in Empire (rather, hisec I suppose) are just wrong from both a logical standpoint and a roleplaying standpoint. I hear people whine about gatecamping being "grief play" and frequently argue that it is not. There is absolutely no logical argument to support the actions of these "deadspace invaders" as being anything but grief play (with a few exceptions no doubt).
So CCP had to do something. They opened the door for this grief-play, and now they have to shut it. Maybe they slammed the door too hard, by cutting off any realistic hope of scanning down mission runners, but when it comes to safespots is it really all that different than getting those missions 5au from the scannable plane that provided unprobeable safespots??
Yes, it is now no longer (reaonably) possible to scan down an active mission runner to attack them in lowsec and 0.0 space. Neither was that possible if a mission spawned outside the 1 or 2 au plane that scan probes were limited to before. What the hell have you really lost?
You've gained the ability to bust damn near any safespot in the game. You've lost the ability to scan down mission runners whose mission spawn happened to coincide with the limited scannable range provided by the old system. And you are honestly carrying on about this? They didn't "dumb down" the game for pity's sake, they restored it to a state similar to the entirety of EVE two damn weeks ago!!! Good grief people, get a role model.
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
Shi'ra Kull
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Posted - 2006.12.13 19:24:00 -
[266]
I havnt lost anything i dont run missions or attack mission runners.
That was a misplaced example in that case, my other points still stand. Good grief :p dont just focus on one point out of a post. The point that they dumb everything down remains valid, and still ****es me off.
Yes they have made scanning for safe spots much easier and quicker too, and removed any skill from it. That also comes under the heading Dumbing things down.
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Simon Jax
Gallente Freelancing Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.13 20:05:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Shi'ra Kull I havnt lost anything i dont run missions or attack mission runners.
That was a misplaced example in that case, my other points still stand. Good grief :p dont just focus on one point out of a post. The point that they dumb everything down remains valid, and still ****es me off.
Yes they have made scanning for safe spots much easier and quicker too, and removed any skill from it. That also comes under the heading Dumbing things down.
Sorry, I wasnÆt actually picking on your post specifically. Though I can see how it would seem so. There have been a lot of people carrying on that CCPÆs catering to the carebears by making mission deadspaces safe.
Now, to actually address your other points. While yes, they made scanning much easier overall, the system is not without balance. I can see how the new system ædumbs it downÆ somewhat, but it adds more to the game than it takes away in my opinion. It doesnÆt make much sense to me for people to be able to create more-or-less untouchable safespots form which they can sit without fear of being spotted. ThatÆs no longer a viable tactic in lowsec and/or 0.0 space. Besides which, itÆs not like the recon launchers can just be slapped on to any æol ship without some serious drawbacks.
CanÆt scan people in deadspaces? Also makes sense to me, theyÆre in a deadspace! Your own bookmarks donÆt get you back to where you put it, let alone magically to the acceleration gate ... why should it get Mr. Scannerman there??? That said I can see CCP making more tweaks to the system as time goes on. This fix being to stem the griefing that they inadvertently added to the game. Though later on it may come about that the lower the security, the lower that deadspace æpenaltyÆ to scan resolution. But thatÆs neither here nor there.
The exploration mechanic was just too baffling the way it was first implemented. Actually, my biggest criticism on that subject is the fact that without Hoshi here, I would have never been able to figure it out from what CCP told us (that I found at any rate) ... for the content creators to leave it to the players to figure out just baffles me. But I digress. I think the new probe is necessary, and it makes sense to me. WeÆll have to see, but I highly doubt itÆll be 100% accurate, as that would be too dumb even as far as IÆm concerned. But as it stands the rewards from these sites are iffy at best, and at worst worthless. Spending two hours and a dozen or so scan probes because youÆre guessing wrong just sucks. Being able to spend a half hour and one or two scan probes to see if itÆs worth it sounds better to me.
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
Phyrr
Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2006.12.13 20:09:00 -
[268]
I have used the multispec probes...found a magnetometric sig in minmatar space
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storm2k5
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Posted - 2006.12.13 22:29:00 -
[269]
some people here stated that there is a site in each system, it's just a matter of chance you find it.
I guess that's wrong then, since I just probed a system with the new multispec and it said "no scan signatures detected"
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storm2k5
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Posted - 2006.12.13 23:41:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Commander Nikolas Yeah, I will second the WTF. All I get with the Multi's is "Unknown" I thought it was supposed to tell you what racial signature it was.
I'm just try to probe the system which shows unknow with the standard sensor type I use for this region of space - will post if and what I get :)
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