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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1461
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Posted - 2015.06.26 11:43:15 -
[541] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:Why is the DDA getting nerfed? Nerf the hulls, not the module. Other drone boats like the Dragoon just got nerfed for no reason.
THIS IS WHY |
Evan Giants
Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium
10
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Posted - 2015.06.26 11:49:44 -
[542] - Quote
I got better idea.
How about you add gun Bay to every other ships. Small gun is 5m3, med is 10m3, large is 25m3
Let other ships swap their guns accordingly to situation.
And give every hacs bonus to all gun sizes. Also optimal range bonus. This will allow other hac to get on Ishtar level because they will finally have bs level weapon bonus and versatile.
Or how about remove goddamn sentry bonus on Ishtar. And replace optimal range with drones velocity bonus instead. |
Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
259
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Posted - 2015.06.26 12:07:03 -
[543] - Quote
This works out to a 2.0%/3.8%/5%/5.6% reduction in DPS for 1/2/3/4 DDA2s and 1.6%/3.0%/4.0%/4.5% for 1/2/3/4 faction DDAs or to put it in terms of base dps, 2.5%/5,6%/8.4%/10% and 2%/4.6%/7.0%/8.5% for faction. Very reasonable change, it may even need a second helping in a patch or two.
The Ishtar slot change I'm not so keen on, the flexibility of fitting options afforded by its layout was part of its unique flavour. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1182
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Posted - 2015.06.26 12:36:10 -
[544] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:This works out to a 2.0%/3.8%/5%/5.6% reduction in DPS for 1/2/3/4 DDA2s and 1.6%/3.0%/4.0%/4.5% for 1/2/3/4 faction DDAs or to put it in terms of base dps, 2.5%/5,6%/8.4%/10% and 2%/4.6%/7.0%/8.5% for faction. Very reasonable change, it may even need a second helping in a patch or two.
The Ishtar slot change I'm not so keen on, the flexibility of fitting options afforded by its layout was part of its unique flavour.
it made it too flexible, something they are trying too fix
Tech 3's need to be multi-role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist, nerf sentries, -3 slots for droneboats
Nerf web strength, Make the blaster eagle worth using
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
26
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Posted - 2015.06.26 13:57:22 -
[545] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:This works out to a 2.0%/3.8%/5%/5.6% reduction in DPS for 1/2/3/4 DDA2s and 1.6%/3.0%/4.0%/4.5% for 1/2/3/4 faction DDAs or to put it in terms of base dps, 2.5%/5,6%/8.4%/10% and 2%/4.6%/7.0%/8.5% for faction. Very reasonable change, it may even need a second helping in a patch or two.
The Ishtar slot change I'm not so keen on, the flexibility of fitting options afforded by its layout was part of its unique flavour.
Agreed, it was the only good Gallente ship that could shield tank and that was what really made the Ishtar a cool, fun and flexible ship to fly. By no means did the 5/5/5 slot layout make the Ishtar OP, It was plain and simple it's ability to use BS caliber weapons without cap or fitting restraints.
And now it appears CCP is taking that uniqueness away from the Ishtar and turning it into another (yawn) armor tank Gallente ship. I'm starting to get the feeling that CCP has no idea what they're doing when it comes to balancing this ship. I believe that it's only a matter of time for this controversial ship that caused more of a dilemma then any other ship in the history of eve , to end up being long forgotten in the realm of Oblivion (courtesy of CCP of course).
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2931
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Posted - 2015.06.26 14:07:33 -
[546] - Quote
The shield Ishtar was OP, being able to fit 3~4 DDAs and a DC then have 5 mids for shield tank and prop mod.
Roleplaying Trinkets for Explorers and Collectors
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Fourteen Maken
Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance
171
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Posted - 2015.06.26 14:42:04 -
[547] - Quote
It's possible the new missile modules could be used to make a hard counter for the ishtar so maybe they are right, these changes are enough for now and look at it again in a few months. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1942
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Posted - 2015.06.26 14:49:58 -
[548] - Quote
How broken would be a heavy drone brawler with let's says a web range bonus?
Or a drone resist bonus to somewhat counter smartbombs? |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
2063
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Posted - 2015.06.26 15:15:57 -
[549] - Quote
Gudu FlyingSoul wrote:Kaivar Lancer wrote:Why is the DDA getting nerfed? Nerf the hulls, not the module. ^This. LvL4 Domi/Ishtar runners, Carriers, Gila/Rattle on WH, Worm small PvP's, PvP alliance fleet doctrines, SoE exploration ships ... -+This is the impact that CCP is looking for?
Probably yes, and it is warranted.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
2063
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Posted - 2015.06.26 15:21:40 -
[550] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:And people are just ignoreing his job. What would you put in place of the ishtar bonuses? Come on, find me 4 relevant bonus to put on the ishtar that do not make it a split weapon system (That would make peopel whine as well). Gallente Cruiser skill bonus per level: 7.5% Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking speed 10% bonus to Light Drone, Medium Drone, and Heavy Drone hitpoints and damage 5% bonus to Sentry Drone hitpoints and damage Heavy Assault Cruisers skill bonus per level: 2500m bonus to Drone operation range 5%/10% bonus to drone max velocityIshtar has very good range and tracking with sentries. Alpha almost as HML BC. Capless, no ammo consuming, good rof, why using other hull than that?
At least you cared to make a proposal. But look how non elegant it becomes with basically alist of several exceptions glued together.
The problem is that they simply cannot make 4 reasonable and at same time generic bonuses for drones without making the ship OP.
I probably would remove the sentry bonus completely and replace it for a large bonus to ewar drones. They are almsot not used.. so at least might change something.
The only ship that should ever get sentry bonus shoudl be the domi on my opinion.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
463
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Posted - 2015.06.26 15:41:25 -
[551] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Masao Kurata wrote:This works out to a 2.0%/3.8%/5%/5.6% reduction in DPS for 1/2/3/4 DDA2s and 1.6%/3.0%/4.0%/4.5% for 1/2/3/4 faction DDAs or to put it in terms of base dps, 2.5%/5,6%/8.4%/10% and 2%/4.6%/7.0%/8.5% for faction. Very reasonable change, it may even need a second helping in a patch or two.
The Ishtar slot change I'm not so keen on, the flexibility of fitting options afforded by its layout was part of its unique flavour. it made it too flexible, something they are trying too fix
Shield Ishtar is fine aside from sentries. Can't fit web + point without losing way too much tank so you just get point; it's fast but still not as fast as some brawler cruisers and easy to catch with anything else, and even with 3 mids and 2 rigs for shield tank + DCU, armor Ishtar still has much more EHP.
100 MN AB is not great outside of big fleets either, it's slower than MWD and can't turn ever.
Shield fitting options set the Ishtar apart from the VNI. It will now be exactly the same ship with a bigger drone bay and few more resists.
Monkey with sentries all you want, even DDA's, but allow us to keep the Ishtar's fitting versatility.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1944
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Posted - 2015.06.26 16:31:40 -
[552] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:And people are just ignoreing his job. What would you put in place of the ishtar bonuses? Come on, find me 4 relevant bonus to put on the ishtar that do not make it a split weapon system (That would make peopel whine as well). Gallente Cruiser skill bonus per level: 7.5% Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking speed 10% bonus to Light Drone, Medium Drone, and Heavy Drone hitpoints and damage 5% bonus to Sentry Drone hitpoints and damage Heavy Assault Cruisers skill bonus per level: 2500m bonus to Drone operation range 5%/10% bonus to drone max velocityIshtar has very good range and tracking with sentries. Alpha almost as HML BC. Capless, no ammo consuming, good rof, why using other hull than that? At least you cared to make a proposal. But look how non elegant it becomes with basically alist of several exceptions glued together. The problem is that they simply cannot make 4 reasonable and at same time generic bonuses for drones without making the ship OP. I probably would remove the sentry bonus completely and replace it for a large bonus to ewar drones. They are almsot not used.. so at least might change something. The only ship that should ever get sentry bonus shoudl be the domi on my opinion.
You could change the sentry tracking + optimal and make it armor rep amount. It would still be all galente. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
2063
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Posted - 2015.06.26 17:32:16 -
[553] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:And people are just ignoreing his job. What would you put in place of the ishtar bonuses? Come on, find me 4 relevant bonus to put on the ishtar that do not make it a split weapon system (That would make peopel whine as well). Gallente Cruiser skill bonus per level: 7.5% Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking speed 10% bonus to Light Drone, Medium Drone, and Heavy Drone hitpoints and damage 5% bonus to Sentry Drone hitpoints and damage Heavy Assault Cruisers skill bonus per level: 2500m bonus to Drone operation range 5%/10% bonus to drone max velocityIshtar has very good range and tracking with sentries. Alpha almost as HML BC. Capless, no ammo consuming, good rof, why using other hull than that? At least you cared to make a proposal. But look how non elegant it becomes with basically alist of several exceptions glued together. The problem is that they simply cannot make 4 reasonable and at same time generic bonuses for drones without making the ship OP. I probably would remove the sentry bonus completely and replace it for a large bonus to ewar drones. They are almsot not used.. so at least might change something. The only ship that should ever get sentry bonus shoudl be the domi on my opinion. You could change the sentry tracking + optimal and make it armor rep amount. It would still be all galente.
Yes but would be same bonus of deimos. I think ccp tries to avoid that.
What they coudl do now is make a HULL resistance bonus like the hecate....
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
297
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Posted - 2015.06.26 17:58:04 -
[554] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:At least you cared to make a proposal. But look how non elegant it becomes with basically alist of several exceptions glued together.
The problem is that they simply cannot make 4 reasonable and at same time generic bonuses for drones without making the ship OP.
I probably would remove the sentry bonus completely and replace it for a large bonus to ewar drones. They are almsot not used.. so at least might change something.
The only ship that should ever get sentry bonus shoudl be the domi on my opinion. Problem with balancing Ishtar is nonequal bonuses with other HACs. All have 2+2 and role bouns, Ishtar has 3+2 and role bonus, Rise don't want to remove sentries from this cruiser but it has great range and tracking with them. So Gallente Cruiser skill bonus per level: 7.5% Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking speed 10% bonus to Light Drone, Medium Drone, and Heavy Drone hitpoints and damage
Heavy Assault Cruisers skill bonus per level: 5% bonus to Sentry Drone hitpoints and damage 4% to armor resistances (it may be too good with slots switching)
Sentries will loose range and tracking but still be usefull.
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2931
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Posted - 2015.06.26 18:13:37 -
[555] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:At least you cared to make a proposal. But look how non elegant it becomes with basically alist of several exceptions glued together.
The problem is that they simply cannot make 4 reasonable and at same time generic bonuses for drones without making the ship OP.
I probably would remove the sentry bonus completely and replace it for a large bonus to ewar drones. They are almsot not used.. so at least might change something.
The only ship that should ever get sentry bonus shoudl be the domi on my opinion. Problem with balancing Ishtar is nonequal bonuses with other HACs. All have 2+2 and role bouns, Ishtar has 3+2 and role bonus, Rise don't want to remove sentries from this cruiser but it has great range and tracking with them. So Gallente Cruiser skill bonus per level: 7.5% Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking speed 10% bonus to Light Drone, Medium Drone, and Heavy Drone hitpoints and damage Heavy Assault Cruisers skill bonus per level: 5% bonus to Sentry Drone hitpoints and damage 4% to armor resistances (it may be too good with slots switching) Sentries will loose range and tracking but still be usefull. Good concept except Gallente doesn't get armor resistance bonuses for it's racial tanking bonus. Trade that for a 4% hull resistance like Kagura said and we might have a fun ship. It would need to stay 4/4/6 though.
Roleplaying Trinkets for Explorers and Collectors
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
298
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Posted - 2015.06.26 18:38:42 -
[556] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Good concept except Gallente doesn't get armor resistance bonuses for it's racial tanking bonus. Trade that for a 4% hull resistance like Kagura said and we might have a fun ship. It would need to stay 4/4/6 though. I meant to wrote hull resistance but was thinking about stratios...(which has +4 res from amarr...)
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
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Irya Boone
Never Surrender.
466
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Posted - 2015.06.26 19:39:17 -
[557] - Quote
So you are nerfing DDA now and buffing missiles ? So we must all swap to caldari ships for pvp?
you have a problem with understanding your game and how people play the game , I don't know how you read your datas and how you retrieve them from the game , but you really should play a little bit more your own game
So i suppose that after the realease of the hecate you gonna nerf small railgun too?
CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails
.... Open that damn door !!
you shall all bow and pray BoB
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1474
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Posted - 2015.06.26 21:52:31 -
[558] - Quote
Irya Boone wrote:So you are nerfing DDA now and buffing missiles ? So we must all swap to caldari ships for pvp?
you have a problem with understanding your game and how people play the game , I don't know how you read your datas and how you retrieve them from the game , but you really should play a little bit more your own game
So i suppose that after the realease of the hecate you gonna nerf small railgun too?
Nah, the missile buff was a bait and switch.
Never not nerf caldari. |
Alyxportur
From Our Cold Dead Hands
96
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Posted - 2015.06.26 23:01:38 -
[559] - Quote
Quote:The problem: Ishtars are too good. They are squashing out diversity in several environments because of their excellent damage projection and solid survivability Source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/balance-changes-coming-in-scylla/ |
Alexis Nightwish
293
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Posted - 2015.06.26 23:07:07 -
[560] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Irya Boone wrote:So you are nerfing DDA now and buffing missiles ? So we must all swap to caldari ships for pvp?
you have a problem with understanding your game and how people play the game , I don't know how you read your datas and how you retrieve them from the game , but you really should play a little bit more your own game
So i suppose that after the realease of the hecate you gonna nerf small railgun too? Nah, the missile buff was a bait and switch. Never not nerf caldari. To elaborate on what afk said, it's true missiles are getting application modules, but the rigs that we used to use for application will now be stacking penalized so you'll have to sacrifice one mid and/or low slot just to have the same application you do now.
So are you going to drop tackle, tank (most missile boats are shield, and the Amarr ones have few mids), or DPS?
It's lose-lose-lose, but CCP will call it a win.
CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Fixing bombs, not the bombers
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1950
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Posted - 2015.06.27 06:17:03 -
[561] - Quote
The fact that the change brought with this article didn't change the ships' projection (a sentry was nerfed but it was for all sentry boat, not just to problem ship according to that very post) or it's survivability.
Why this statement didn't lead to either hacking away at the opti + tracking combo bonus and/or a nerf to it's survivability (like increased base sigs for example) is really making my head spin. |
Gabriel Karade
Noir. No Not Believing
257
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Posted - 2015.06.27 11:38:34 -
[562] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:One more post for the Aegis release covering a couple more small balance changes.
First of all, the Ishtar. In our ongoing to quest to find out exactly what it will take to move the Ishtar off its throne as the most dominant PVP ship in EVE, we are going to make the following changes:
-1 mid slot, +1 low slot Decrease in mass from 1,100,000 to 1060000 Decrease in max velocity from 185m/s to 175m/s Agility going from .52 to .565 Power grid lowered from 780 to 740 Overall these changes should put a lot of pressure on speed based, shield fits (especially those using over-sized afterburners), forcing a tougher choice between the speed you get with shields and the survivability you get with armor.
Next up, Drone Damage Amplifiers. While the Ishtar has really taken the spotlight as the most oppressive ship around, drone focused hulls are extremely strong across the board. From the Algos and the Tristan, to the Vexor and the Gila, to the Dominix and the Armageddon we see higher damage output and activity than the competition. For that reason we are going to lower the % damage bonus from DDA's just slightly. Numbers as follows:
Drone Damage Amplifier I - 15% (was 16%) Drone Damage Amplifier II - 20.5% (was 23%)
Dread Guristas Drone Damage Amplifier - 23.8% (was 25.8%) Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier - 23.8% (was 25.8%) Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier - 23.8% (was 25.8%) Sentient Drone Damage Amplifier - 23.8% (was 25.8%)
Unit D-34343's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier - 24.5% (was (26.5%) Unit F-435454's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier - 25.15% (was 27.15%) Unit P-343554's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier - 25.8% (was 27.8%) Unit W-634's Modified Drone Damage Amplifier - 26.5% (was 28.5%)
And let's finish on a high note, the Tempest! We are looking at a wider set of Battleship and Battlecruiser tweaks that will probably come in a later release but part of the package was a Tempest buff and we see no reason to hold back on that while we pin down the rest of the changes.
We are changing the Tempest's bonus to rate of fire from 5% to 7.5% per level.
Will the Ishtar be balanced after this? Is the Drone Damage Amp nerf too much? What will you do with a 950 turret dps Tempest? Let us know! Now that shield Ishtars are getting their justly deserved kick in the nads, I'm tempted to do something radical... and train Heavy Assault Cruisers Level I
Armour Ishtar \0/
(though, I still maintain you should still port some shield hp's across into armour...)
War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
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Aplysia Vejun
The Scope Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2015.06.27 11:45:49 -
[563] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote: Armour Ishtar \0/
(though, I still maintain you should still port some shield hp's across into armour...)
It lacks speed and pgen for a good armor brawler |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems
361
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Posted - 2015.06.27 17:12:36 -
[564] - Quote
Irya Boone wrote:So you are nerfing DDA now and buffing missiles ? So we must all swap to caldari ships for pvp?
you have a problem with understanding your game and how people play the game , I don't know how you read your datas and how you retrieve them from the game , but you really should play a little bit more your own game
So i suppose that after the realease of the hecate you gonna nerf small railgun too?
You clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
These changes did not go far enough. Not even close. |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems
361
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Posted - 2015.06.27 17:22:37 -
[565] - Quote
Alexis Nightwish wrote:afkalt wrote:Irya Boone wrote:So you are nerfing DDA now and buffing missiles ? So we must all swap to caldari ships for pvp?
you have a problem with understanding your game and how people play the game , I don't know how you read your datas and how you retrieve them from the game , but you really should play a little bit more your own game
So i suppose that after the realease of the hecate you gonna nerf small railgun too? Nah, the missile buff was a bait and switch. Never not nerf caldari. To elaborate on what afk said, it's true missiles are getting application modules, but the rigs that we used to use for application will now be stacking penalized so you'll have to sacrifice one mid and/or low slot just to have the same application you do now. So are you going to drop tackle, tank (most missile boats are shield, and the Amarr ones have few mids), or DPS? It's lose-lose-lose, but CCP will call it a win.
Ain't that the truth...
But 5% less Ishtar damage will solve everything!! |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems
361
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Posted - 2015.06.27 17:26:44 -
[566] - Quote
Aplysia Vejun wrote:Gabriel Karade wrote: Armour Ishtar \0/
(though, I still maintain you should still port some shield hp's across into armour...)
It lacks speed and pgen for a good armor brawler
Neuts, heavy drones, cap booster, dual rep...
You must be joking. |
Umino Iruka
Ultramar Independent Contracting
3
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Posted - 2015.06.27 20:14:52 -
[567] - Quote
I swear these "balance" changes remind me of one thing only:
http://giphy.com/gifs/5Zesu5VPNGJlm
It's not all bad because the "random generator to current problems" button did yield the tempest buff as well - not quite what it should be, but it's a start... |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1481
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Posted - 2015.06.27 23:50:42 -
[568] - Quote
Umino Iruka wrote:I swear these "balance" changes remind me of one thing only:
I was thinking more this
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TheSylance
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.06.27 23:59:18 -
[569] - Quote
Will the "Tempest Fleet Issue" recieve the increased firerate too? Cause otherwise it will be weaker than the normal one. Compare here |
Atomeon
The Scope Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2015.06.28 01:12:37 -
[570] - Quote
TheSylance wrote:Will the "Tempest Fleet Issue" recieve the increased firerate too? Cause otherwise it will be weaker than the normal one. Compare here Dont complain, enjoy it... what it lasts |
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