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Dianabolic
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.22 16:09:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Lorac Caladon Not my definition friend, Merriam-Webster's. If you don't like it, take it up with them. After all, they wrote the book
And when CCP say "it is part of the game", your dictionaries just became non-applicable.
Unlucky.
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2006.11.22 16:11:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Blacklight
Originally by: Lorac Caladon Edited by: Lorac Caladon on 22/11/2006 16:02:12
Originally by: Fist'of God Edited by: Fist''of God on 22/11/2006 06:17:52
Originally by: Lorac Caladon
Originally by: Blacklight
Originally by: Lorac Caladon
Originally by: Blacklight
Originally by: Lorac Caladon I don't think anyone denies that you control the region NOW. I just think that most people believe you could not control the region NOW if you did not cheat.
Ok smart arse, let's have it then, where's the proof of us cheating that you are obviously sat on?
Do BOB members have ASCN TS &/or Forum access?
Where is your proof that we are cheating?
It's in the ôyes or noö question that you are evading. BTW, I base my definition of cheating on the dictionary.com definition. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cheating
You shouldnt answer a question with a question. It is bad manners.
Did you notice that I was responding to the fact that my question was answered with a question? BL may not let you join the club if you keep pointing out his lack of manners...
I see you haven't developed any logical thought processes or observational skills since lastnight then?
No need to get nasty. I was pointing out the obvious.
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Lorac Caladon
Caldari The Cowboy Junkies
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Posted - 2006.11.22 16:12:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Ria Sotori I think I finally figured all this load of horse **** out!!
ASCN isnt mad at us because of forum spying.... There mad because there spies cant find anything on the Bob or member corp forums that is even remotely as ignorant, laughable, or bold faced lying with which to counter the posted materials gleaned from there own.
Im sorry dear members of the ASCN community that our leaders dont need to lie to us. Im sorry that our leaders dont go off on delusional headshot macro, GM intervention, Node crash generator lies to cover there own inadaquacies but the fact is they dont need to. They tell it like it is.
Then the big boys and girls in Bob absorb and process and move on.
All this arguing over what is cheating or fair in war boils down to the following directly from the eve website:
Quote: When players band together to form factions and alliances, the game progresses to a more grand-scale strategic level. Political intrigue, corporate espionage and the very essence of Darwinism bring dimension and depth to the game as the struggle for fame and fortune ebbs and flows with each new day in EVE.
And since you folks love quoting dictionarys let me give you the following:
Quote: espionage
Practice of obtaining military, political, commercial, or other secret information by means of spies or illegal monitoring devices. It is sometimes distinguished from the broader category of intelligence gathering by its aggressive nature and its illegality. Counterespionage efforts are directed at detecting and thwarting espionage by others.
So..... Eve says espionage is part of the vision and gameplay of Eve.... the definition of espionage says its the practice of obtaining military, political, commercial, or other secret information by means of spies or illegal monitoring devices.
As part of being a spy you are given access to certain third party areas (forums and TS/Ventrilo Servers). And the issue is you want to whine when a spy does there job ?
Nrxt time I suggest you read the game materials before you pick an item to whine about.
Whoa. Slow down a bit there Rita. YouÆll have a meltdown if you keep getting all worked about a game like that.
Anywayàthe jab I took at BOB was meant to be light-hearted and referenced an acknowledged tactic that you employ (spying on ASCN TS and forums). Now, since you have to ôdeceive by trickeryö to gain access to these resources, you do, in fact, cheat. I never said it was anything that would cause a BOB member to get banned, booted, chastised by authority (etcà) for. All the ranting in the world about how BOB are all big boys and girls means nothing when confronted with facts. BOB cheats. Does every other alliance in the game (including ASCN) do the same? Probably. Again, that does not change the fact that you do it.
Now, to the little oneÆs rambling about RL spies etc, get a clue.
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Hast
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.22 16:22:00 -
[214]
whaaa whaaa whaaa, we lost a region, it must be the spies!
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Metal Dude
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.22 16:29:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Lorac Caladon
Anywayàthe jab I took at BOB was meant to be light-hearted and referenced an acknowledged tactic that you employ (spying on ASCN TS and forums). Now, since you have to ôdeceive by trickeryö to gain access to these resources, you do, in fact, cheat. I never said it was anything that would cause a BOB member to get banned, booted, chastised by authority (etcà) for. All the ranting in the world about how BOB are all big boys and girls means nothing when confronted with facts. BOB cheats. Does every other alliance in the game (including ASCN) do the same? Probably. Again, that does not change the fact that you do it.
How do you think ASCN got access to BoB's forums? Do you think they informed BoB that they are an ASCN member? And if ASCN 'cheats', why are you not also flaming them for it? Like I told you before. You are a hypocrite.
The truth will set you free
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Brian Detaah
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2006.11.22 16:39:00 -
[216]
Its one thing to quote a dictionary, appearantly its harder to understand it.
You see, if you say that BoB cheats in the meaning that you just "cheated" in a guy in a deal ei. 10 isk for a BS, then yes, by the means of our "OMGZCLOAKZANDDADAGGERZ" wing we have cheated the counterspies at ASCN. Cheating is here a synonym for Tricking or outsmarting.
But when you use the word "cheat" in a game, it means breaking the rules of the game. Now when you say we cheat in a game it means just that, and since the judge of this game says "not cheating" then you are wrong.
------------------------------------------------ `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.' `The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.' `The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that's all.'
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DB Preacher
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.22 16:43:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Lorac Caladon
Originally by: Hans Roaming Lorac if you feel that BoB is cheating then raise a petition, if the GM's agree with you then maybe Paragon Soul will be returned to ASCN.
Quick question, do you think that BOB gained access to the ASCN TS and forum by using deceit?
wow,
Spies are the new lame node hax.
Anyway, I gained access to the ASCN TS and forum from a friend granting me access to the ASCN TS and forum.
I didn't decieve him, I told him exactly what we were going to do... debunk any lies that his leaders post there.
So was there a point to your pointless point?
dbp
Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
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Weebear
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.22 16:54:00 -
[218]
Originally by: DB Preacher
Anyway, I gained access to the ASCN TS and forum from a friend granting me access to the ASCN TS and forum.
I didn't decieve him, I told him exactly what we were going to do... debunk any lies that his leaders post there.
dbp
TS I can believe, as my gran sometimes jumps on that thinking it's a radio station broadcasting to the world, but not the forum access.
There are only around 4 people who can actually grant access, and for some reason I don't see John and Cyvok as being your friend and giving you access to debunk them.
PS Haven't heard from you in a bit |
DB Preacher
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.22 16:57:00 -
[219]
Being granted access to forums does not neccessarily mean I was given a brand new account.
He granted me access to the forums through his account ;)
And yes, I have been quiet because Molle hasn't managed to do anything new afaik.
I could send EVERY single thing he does but you'd prolly get bored of me evemailing everything :P
Should be another update after the weekend ;)
dbp
Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
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Hans Roaming
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.22 17:30:00 -
[220]
Edited by: Hans Roaming on 22/11/2006 17:30:33
Originally by: Lorac Caladon
Originally by: Hans Roaming Lorac if you feel that BoB is cheating then raise a petition, if the GM's agree with you then maybe Paragon Soul will be returned to ASCN.
Quick question, do you think that BOB gained access to the ASCN TS and forum by using deceit?
If you mean to ask did they request access and declare they were ASCN's enemy then of course they didn't. Now you could say this is cheating. In some games like lying and backstabbing etc are part of the game. So really one has to ask is espionage part of the game called EVE that BoB and ASCN are playing? By looking through the player guide, specifically the corporation guide you'll find this paragraph:
Quote:
Spying on a corporation
Spying, scheming, double-dealing, and espionage are devilishly delicious features of EVE for those who relish walking on the dark side. Corporation leaders are urged to exercise extreme caution when accepting new members, particularly when granting access to their private communications and corporate holdings. There are criminal elements in EVE who can, and will, take advantage of unsuspecting marks.
So I guess that answers the question that espinage against another group in EVE is part of the game and that BoB in fact do not cheat and neither does ASCN when it employs spying back to find out what BoB is doing. Therefore in fact BoB did not take Paragon Soul by cheating so it must be down to something else and ASCN would be wise to focus on closing that gap.
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Farham
Gallente AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.22 17:41:00 -
[221]
I don't understand why anyone would be upset that *out of game*, beyond CCP's ability to comment on, spying is being done.
I for one am flattered as hell that such a proud and competent PvP force feels the *need* to use TS spies to help beat us.
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dicequeen
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Posted - 2006.11.22 17:48:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Farham
I don't understand why anyone would be upset that *out of game*, beyond CCP's ability to comment on, spying is being done.
I for one am flattered as hell that such a proud and competent PvP force feels the *need* to use TS spies to help beat us.
Apparently they only need TS to go spank you when you decide to start something...
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fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.23 08:36:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Farham
I don't understand why anyone would be upset that *out of game*, beyond CCP's ability to comment on, spying is being done.
I for one am flattered as hell that such a proud and competent PvP force feels the *need* to use TS spies to help beat us.
Ts spies do not win battle's mate, good fc's and tactic's and hot co ops pilots do
How exactly did you come to earn the space your currently inhabit?
BoB lite let them keep it when they surrendered to us and stabbed Xetic between the shoulderblades.
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Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.23 08:46:00 -
[224]
those threads get quiet boring
BoB: We WIN OMFGWTFBBQED !!!111!!!eleven ASCN: U Win cause have spizors and haxxors and ur GMs too BOB: Evidence ASCN: When i was in Bandcamp... BOB: Evidence ASCN: But Bandcamp was... bla bla bla
Stop making an excuse and stand up
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thoth foc
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2006.11.23 10:38:00 -
[225]
Edited by: thoth foc on 23/11/2006 10:38:49
Originally by: Lorac Caladon
Not my definition friend, Merriam-Webster's. If you don't like it, take it up with them. After all, they wrote the book
It's always your definition, since it's you interrupting it.. They have stated many options and opinions, how you understand and apply them is completely up to you..
Some ppl will read them and think "OMG their cheating!!" others will think "how does this apply in this situation" CCP have stated, "it doesnt"
CCP > u
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PSA1SWIPE
Caldari adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.23 20:58:00 -
[226]
Lol Ascnd whole arguent for ps is cause bob used "spys". bob has alawyas done this they alawyas will and unless its agianst the rules, i dont see why they or any one else who does it should stop. imformation its the new ***** best high ever thats how things are done. comon ascnd your telling me you never used a scout or covert ops to gain the upper hand same thing.
I like bunny wabbits |
Revelatia
Clandestia
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Posted - 2006.11.23 23:36:00 -
[227]
Originally by: PSA1SWIPE Lol Ascnd whole arguent for ps is cause bob used "spys". .
Not quite true, some of us realise that they are beating us through superior training, tactics and firepower, amongst other things.
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eleuthereus
Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.23 23:51:00 -
[228]
Guys, guys, guys, guys PLZ!!!!!
- Spies are PART of this game (see http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g12.asp). It is not a cheat - it is war.
- Spies have always been an integral part of warfare (read any history book). In RL and in the Virtual World.
- Spies can most certainly turn SOME battles/skirmishes around in favor of the side that has the best and most effective spies (refer to any number of ASCN vs BoB engagements). This is a tactic well within the bounds of fair play, IMHO. Deal with it.
- Spies have a limited role, they cannot, and do not, and never will, be singlehandedly responsible for a war's outcome. Or, in the case of Eve, a fleet disaster or the loss of several systems/stations.
Now, those are the facts, plain and simple. So, please, button-up the anti-spy rambling.
I rarely post here, but really, I had to say something on this issue.
eleuthereus
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Sorja
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.11.24 01:08:00 -
[229]
Paragon Soul is gone? So maybe the war can start now...
When BoB controls AZN, nobody will probably put bets on ASCN anymore. But AZN is firmly under ASCN control and by the looks of it they are getting better and even beating the crap out of BoB which never happened before AFAIK. From what DBP posted, BoB had never lost so much in a single day to ASCN so far.
Things are now getting interesting. If AZN lasts past Revelations, I'm not sure the will to fight will remain intact for BoB. If AZN falls fast, the ASCN name might as well be removed from the alliances rooster.
Time is running in favor of ASCN, it's quite surprizing BoB didn't conquer faster TBH.
Too bad Revelations doesn't introduce a bookmaker mini-profession, I'd like to know how the odds are running. BoB peons blindlessly follow their high charisma leaders, but what about the others, even outside ASCN, is BoB 10:1, 2:1 or even maybe 1:2 or higher?
This war won't be won with fleet battles (where BoB can be rated 20:1), but with patience (where ASCN is rated 20:1), hence the BoB leaders posts, they know they need more pressure than only from the battlefield. Will that be enough? ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not. |
Shardrael
Caldari AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.24 01:15:00 -
[230]
lorac, so they use ts spies, so they use forum spies, so ******* what? its beyond fact there is no point in *****ing on it, if it were against game rules actions would have been taken, deal with it
we do(for the most part)
Originally by: Pinky Denmark
Caldari have other options like using rails or train for other ships/weapons...
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Eskalin
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.24 01:22:00 -
[231]
i enjoy frolicing in the mercoxite of 0-N
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James Britanicus
Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.24 02:14:00 -
[232]
You know, I read, and read, and read, this and many very similar, errily silimar, threads about this war.
But in all of this fighting I have learned several things. I will share a couple with you,
1) I could go back through this and other threads and show dozens of names, some ascn but mostly BoB who post here but not on the killboards with either kills or loses. So I guess they would define forum who*res. So if you not on a kill board of any sort please stfu you embarress yourself and which ever alliance your tag says you belong to. 2) That I really suck in pvp. I have lost so much that I consider myself stupid. I realized that when I lost my eos to a trap that was perfectly executed the other day. In fact I knew it was a trap and still screwed myself over. But that is not the only thing I realized, You know what the real lesson was??? It and totally truthfully is that BoB has about 30 competant PVPers. These guys are awesome, Spartaco you ******* amaze me man. I don't mind loosing ships to you cause you truely are a gifted PvPer.
But it looks like you have a few lessons to learn as well.
1) You don't have any idea what infastructure it takes to control 3 regions, Dice you seem proud to own 3 stations. Good luck keeping them running. It takes Billions to run 1 station nevermind 3. Why you think we never set up a few more in south feyth. And don't say cause you couldn't.
2) Once everyone else in eve realizes that you only have like 30 strong PvPers they will start to cut your regions open a bit at a time. Like dieing from a thousand paper cuts. Don't think it can't happen. This is what happened to ASCN in the weeks and months leading up to this war we have been fighting nearly every baddie in eve, Toxin, AAA, D2, etc. They come like wolfs to the scent. Don't think it won't happen to you cause it will. You are way over your heads logistically and too spread out. ASCN is in it's comfort zone now. We are in the regions that we have been in for about 18 months.
To those 30 good PvPer's - Thanks - although sometimes when I lose I shut down the computer for a few hours at least I still come to the fight, And I will keep coming to the fight until this is resolved.
To most of you - Much respect - Even you DICE guys have backed off the smack and made this a more pleasent experience. Thanks ****************************************************************
He thinks he is Uber, if you don't believe me, just ask him :)
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ProphetGuru
Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.24 03:01:00 -
[233]
Originally by: James Britanicus
1) You don't have any idea what infastructure it takes to control 3 regions, Dice you seem proud to own 3 stations. Good luck keeping them running. It takes Billions to run 1 station nevermind 3. Why you think we never set up a few more in south feyth. And don't say cause you couldn't.
2) Once everyone else in eve realizes that you only have like 30 strong PvPers they will start to cut your regions open a bit at a time. Like dieing from a thousand paper cuts. Don't think it can't happen. This is what happened to ASCN in the weeks and months leading up to this war we have been fighting nearly every baddie in eve, Toxin, AAA, D2, etc. They come like wolfs to the scent. Don't think it won't happen to you cause it will. You are way over your heads logistically and too spread out. ASCN is in it's comfort zone now. We are in the regions that we have been in for about 18 months.
Assumption is the mother of all feck ups. You say we have no idea of the logistics involved in running 3 regions, when we were already running 3 regions AND pressing a war.. AND building a titan from scratch (not hauling half of it in from empire). I fully understand you have no doubt bought in to Cyvoks kool -aid about ASCN being an industrial powerhouse, but the fact of the matter is we have controlled all fronts of this war. PVP, PR, Logistics, Cap Ships, etc. So thank you for stating your opinion, based on assumptions, which have no basis other then a misguided notion that building outposts is hard.
As for the papercut theory.. Please we've been hearing that for 2 years now, and to be frank, noone really has the nutz to do it, no matter how much we insult them.
[CLS] Bawldeux IV- start posting all kinds of crap about BoB members, insulting their families,friends,anything that will **** them off. |
Kim Wu
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.24 03:10:00 -
[234]
Originally by: James Britanicus
1) You don't have any idea what infastructure it takes to control 3 regions, Dice you seem proud to own 3 stations. Good luck keeping them running. It takes Billions to run 1 station nevermind 3. Why you think we never set up a few more in south feyth. And don't say cause you couldn't.
Nor do you, hence why you are down to 2
We run the 5 we have pretty easily
and we [DICE] actually have 6 stations in 4 regions and we [BoB] own the most stations ingame. So don't even bother saying we don't have any idea. ----------------------------------
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CamMan
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.24 03:14:00 -
[235]
Originally by: James Britanicus
...I have learned several things... ...totally truthfully is that BoB has about 30 competant PVPers ...You don't have any idea what infastructure it takes to control 3 regions... ...Dice you seem proud to own 3 stations. Good luck keeping them running. It takes Billions to run 1 station nevermind 3...
hahahahaha, lol!!! I think you just learnt that you havent learnt anything.
So for your sake i will clarify, BoB has controlled 3 regions for the better part of 2 years. And 4 regions over the last year, and we now have 5. Whilst still pressing the war forward into a 6th.
BoB now has control of 20 stations, soon to be more, that is an average of 4 per corporation (not including TAOSP, sorry guys ). So what makes you think DICE cant control 4 stations, let alone 3?
BoB only has 30 competent PvP'ers? nice to see 30 people taking ASCN space then :)
Cheers Cam
Originally by: Bender Interesting, no the other one ... tedious
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Audrea
Momentum.
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Posted - 2006.11.24 03:50:00 -
[236]
Originally by: James Britanicus
1) You don't have any idea what infastructure it takes to control 3 regions, Dice you seem proud to own 3 stations. Good luck keeping them running. It takes Billions to run 1 station nevermind 3. Why you think we never set up a few more in south feyth. And don't say cause you couldn't.
Not everyone needs to spam pos at every moon, to control station over extended period of time ------------------ Its great not being an Amarr, aint it? Save Tranquility! |
Aman Sul
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.24 04:42:00 -
[237]
Originally by: James Britanicus Dice you seem proud to own 3 stations
DICE doesn't own anything other than the headache of setting standings everytime someone want's to dock. They areall BOB owned.
"Let them hate us as long as they fear us" |
James Britanicus
Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.24 04:54:00 -
[238]
Edited by: James Britanicus on 24/11/2006 04:56:31 Just what I was saying. The 4 BoB responding to my post I have not seen at all. I have been at all the major engagements and fought dozens of times and yet I don't recall any of your names. I have not had the occasion to add you to my address book. Come fight like your mates do then you can have some right to sit here and preach. As I said it is the same 30-odd guys that deserve respect. Forum warriors 4tl
****************************************************************
He thinks he is Uber, if you don't believe me, just ask him :)
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Afonso Henriques
Minmatar Low Grade Ore The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2006.11.24 05:00:00 -
[239]
Originally by: James Britanicus Edited by: James Britanicus on 24/11/2006 04:56:31 Just what I was saying. The 4 BoB responding to my post I have not seen at all. I have been at all the major engagements and fought dozens of times and yet I don't recall any of your names. I have not had the occasion to add you to my address book. Come fight like your mates do then you can have some right to sit here and preach. As I said it is the same 30-odd guys that deserve respect. Forum warriors 4tl
Do yourself a favor and look them up on BOB's killboard.
p.s. do you noobs actually add all of bob memebrs to your addy? If so, no wonder you login slower.
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ProphetGuru
Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.24 05:01:00 -
[240]
Originally by: James Britanicus Just what I was saying. The 4 BoB responding to my post I have not seen at all. I have been at all the major engagements and fought dozens of times and yet I don't recall any of your names. Come fight like your mates do then you can have some right to sit here and preach. Otherwise just stfu. Forum who*res 4tl
No you wouldn't have seen me. See I fly a ship called a Dreadnaught. THose are big capital ships used for attacking POS's. You may have seen some ASCN ones sitting outside the station in AZN in dock range at one point if you are unfamiliar with the ship type.
Now, most alliances know what these ships are and mount something called a "DEFENSE" when enemy ones come in system. I can understand your confusion seeing as that's not a tactic ASCN seems to be able to grasp as of yet.
If you have any other evidence of your stupidity... er I mean.... questions, please feel free to respond.
[CLS] Bawldeux IV- start posting all kinds of crap about BoB members, insulting their families,friends,anything that will **** them off. |
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