Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
meppa
Black Omega Security The OSS
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 08:58:00 -
[31]
Quote: heh but rally amarr want a ship that can sustain tachyons, a dual rep tank, and out dps a megathron point blank all rolled into one. Say anything positive about an amarr ship and that just means you are some clueless noob.
That would truly be sweet, but unfortunately we seem to be getting a ship that can sustain tachyon fire (no tank running at all and just medium repper fitted, no plates) for 1 minute 3 seconds. Not much longer for megapulses either. Now, if we can just get it changed that it can run tachyons as long as apoc without any tank and i am all happy (with a fitting that outdamages that apoc). People should go and test abbadon that are claiming it is scary or excellent. Or have ideas for out of box fittings as all large sized lasers seem to kill the cap withing seconds. Also please remember that there is huge hitpoint boost with these ships. Wouldn't it be fair that you would be able to run tachyons untill first battleship sized untanked enemy is killed?
Clearly abbadon can't funktion with long range (no cap to outdamage apoc or geddon) so lets think short range. Lack of proper sized drone bay means that it is quite close to geddon dps on full gank with much more expensive price tag. Lack of cap makes tanking also harder unless we forget our lasers as damage dealers. Basically no traditional fits that work here either.
Now, out of box thinking gives us 7 heavy nos and one torpedo launcher or cruise launcher with 3 heavy drones. Other idea is autocannons or even blasters as they use less cap. These out of box fittings ofcourse don't use that magical rof bonus, so apoc with better cap would be better choise with them imo.
What Tux has said about abbadon is blatant lie. In current form abbadon can't do tank or gank extremely well. Lot of people have suggested rigging, but abbadon isn't only ship to get those. Now, abbadon needs all 3 rigs so it can fix its cap problem, while others get them to damage or tank which will put abbadon again behind. There is no reason to buy abbadon with about 3x apoc price if it can't perform better then apoc in anything.
|
Shadowsword
Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 08:58:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Rally Wixx Tux said himself, it's either tank or gank on this ship, can do both extremely well, but cannot due them at the same time.
Frankly, crunching a few numbers, thinking creatively about the 4 mid and 7 lows, your character's implants, and it does exactly what Tux said it would, and I am frightened as hell about fighting one that is in the hand's of an intelligent and well versed Amarr specialized PvPer who chooses to set it up as a gank ship.
I know that the silent sect of the Amarr population, the more reasonable and frankly more intelligent ones, will be able to realize the huge benefits of having a couple of these in any operation.
I don't fly a lick of Amarr, but heretics are definitely going to burn to this bad boy. The Amarr deserve this ship. But go ahead and keep whining, forum goers, since you never take all angles into consideration and have no clue how rigs will affect the Abaddon, go ahead and talk yourself mute. Hopefully Tux won't listen.
You think we don't know about rigs? Of course there are ways to make the ship viable, so let's look at them:
- Rigs to reduce the gun cap usage: That gives you a big Armageddon with 8 guns and an Apoc tank. Pretty damn good by today's standard, but tomorrow?
- Rigs to give even more DPS: So you have an uber gank ship, that will be good just at that: ganks. Too shortlived to be usefull in fleets, and not good at pve. I doubt it would be able to kill a Drake with shield extenders before it run out of cap.
So what is the problem? The problem is that other ships will have rigs, too. So tell me, since you're so creative: What will your rigged Abaddon do, that a rigged blasterthron, Armageddon or Maelstrom won't do better?
------------------------------------------ Nuhwall: Why are some Amarr ships warping backward? Shadowsword: whatever happen, if they need to flee they can honestly say the faced the enemy. |
Dupac
Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 09:29:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Rally Wixx Tux said himself, it's either tank or gank on this ship, can do both extremely well, but cannot due them at the same time.
Frankly, crunching a few numbers, thinking creatively about the 4 mid and 7 lows, your character's implants, and it does exactly what Tux said it would, and I am frightened as hell about fighting one that is in the hand's of an intelligent and well versed Amarr specialized PvPer who chooses to set it up as a gank ship.
I know that the silent sect of the Amarr population, the more reasonable and frankly more intelligent ones, will be able to realize the huge benefits of having a couple of these in any operation.
I don't fly a lick of Amarr, but heretics are definitely going to burn to this bad boy. The Amarr deserve this ship. But go ahead and keep whining, forum goers, since you never take all angles into consideration and have no clue how rigs will affect the Abaddon, go ahead and talk yourself mute. Hopefully Tux won't listen.
Nonsense - all the numbers suggest it's a piece of crap
Damage output (including drones) isn't much better than the geddon (although with a slightly better tank) considering the price difference I'll stick with the geddon.
"Hopefully Tux won't listen" - he didn't listen months ago when the stats came out and people expressed concerns about the ship, why would he start now?
If you don't fly amarr why are you even posting this nonsense and for rigs having an impact on the performance of the ship..... Does no one else get rigs?? So we use rigs to level the playing field, they use rigs to storm ahead once more. |
Godar Marak
Amarr Return Of Red Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 09:41:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Godar Marak on 26/10/2006 09:43:57 This just in from the Ney York stock exchange!
The Amarr empire has filed for bankrupcy after the hostile takeover attempt by Tuxford reducing the effectiveness of laser technology. Employees loose all their earned pensions, all the months/years they spendt specialising on their race and only receive a stfukthnxbye and a ship that only has good looks.
No official Amarrian could comment as they dont even have an emperor.
-------------------- Tuxford you broke my beloved EVE |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 09:44:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Godar Marak and only receive a stfukthnxbye and a ship that only has good looks.
N o official Amarrian could comment as they dont even have an emperor.
I don't think that the Abaddon even looks that good.
The top bit is too far forward for my liking.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori |
Flash Landsraad
STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 09:57:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Rally Wixx I don't fly a lick of Amarr...
...then why do you pretend to know what you're talking about?
With no cap bonus for lasers your cap will run dry extremely quickly. I believe the consensus is that you need a heavy cap booster just to break even on the cap needed to run guns on this thing? It doesn't do more damage than a geddon with megapulse because a geddon has more drones at that range with which to do damage with. The only thing it can do really well is tank like a beast, reminds me of another ship we Amarrians have...oh yeh! THE APOC.
Once again we that fly Amarr have been given a ship to fit autocannons to. Thankyou Tux.
The Abaddon should have been a drone boat with a resist bonus.
Signature removed due to lack of Eve-related content. -Ivan K Fair enough Ivan, sorry :( - Flash |
LC Sulla
BGG Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 10:01:00 -
[37]
It really comes down to this as far as I am concerned. As a raven pilot does this ship scare me...
Meh. Not really. For small gang pvp (where I don't need a tackler scram setup) I plug the EM and Therm holes in my shields by using Invun II, EM hardner II, Thermal hardner II's. Add to that an x-large shield boost II and a shield boost amp (not to mention 2 x PDU II's in lows). Combined with 2 heavy NOS's this tank can be broken given enough time. But it appears time is not something the Abaddon has a lot of.
Adding to all this is the 50% bonus to hp's. Punching through 13,000 points of hardened boosted shields IS going to take a bit of time.
Meanwhile you would be facing a mix of cruise, torps and 5 x tech II medium drones. Be interesting. Not sure how it would go if I failed to get within NOS range though.
|
Godar Marak
Amarr Return Of Red Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 10:38:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
I've a setup in my head that may work (no, I'm not going to share it here).
Same here, max tank and autocannons. Its the only way, since without the cap bonus there simply isnt any reasons to fit lasers. If there were, we would have seen non Amarrian ships out there using lasers in pvp.
-------------------- Tuxford you broke my beloved EVE |
Sonorra Baki
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 10:41:00 -
[39]
I just posted this in a reply to another thread when it should really have been here.
I tried the abaddon yesterday.
With Tach 2 i could shoot for 1 min 10 secs, then cap died. Tach 2 used something like 105 Cap/s.
Then i tried a megapulse setup vs a Drake with HAS launchers.
Megapulse 2 used around 82 cap/s. Thats round 1.8 x what 800 charges gives, not counting reload.
The drake had 17K hardened shield and i couldnt tank it with cycling only 1 LAR T2 on a full tank setup.
I had to cycle second LAR T2.
after 2 mins i was struggling with cap, and i recon if we had continued, the drake would have killed my aba after 5 mins. Im 2 y.o and have dedicated 90% of my skills to amarr.
Basically i thought the split bonus on aba, was fun at first. What i does though, is even though you make a low tier guns setup with a strong tank, you CANT fire back if you want to live. So keep your hands of those F buttons if someone is shooting at you!
I do have medium T2 projectiles though, and i wonder if i could do a nasty trick bait setup for small support ships. Disco aba might also be the most encountered setup in the future.
I wont cry though, because i was clever enough to start a caldari char 1 year ago, so while this char hybernates, i will get to play with some of the best stuff.
___ Somewhere in EvE in 2007
Ok, balls to the wall gents, here we go. Primary target is... OMG TEHY HAVE DRAEK!s AND ROWKS!!!! RRRRRUUUUNN |
Malvahne
Amarr Wulong Mercenaries
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 11:12:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Malvahne on 26/10/2006 11:13:04 I flown this ship on Sisi and it adds nothing new for me, i liked how it looks and with a set of autocannons on it i can and will use it nicely for pve. I'm looking forward to it being released just for that.
People who say you can either be a 'tank' or a 'gank' thats great and all but with just tanking you get no where (Never ever did my 25k duel armour repping Armourgeddon killed any thing in pvp). And we can gank now thats perhaps something we can look forward to i think that in a fleet this battle it can do quite wel at sniping range but in solo pvp i would never use it really sorry but then i know i will stick to my Dominix or the new sexy BC (I almost ****ed over the keybord when playing with that ship).
While we have to choose between tank or gank most ships (Lets be hounest) can do both those things (granted medicore) at the same time.
As for all those non Amarr players who tell us whiners to stfu. It only takes 1 week to train to bs 2 so please do that and get some experiance other then just looking at its stats and thinking "OMFG IT IZZ ZEE P0WNZ0RZ!11"
I am not complaining about the Abadon i like how it looks and flies in pve, but i just dont think it will cute it in solo/small pve but then i havent had a chance to test that out unfortionly so who knows.
All in all i cant wait for Kali while i am perhaps a little disapointed with my new battleship but the rigs, ships wrecks, combat drugs, new battlecruiser looks really promising and i cant wait for Kali to go live.
|
|
Lucre
STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 11:27:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Krulla Of course, you cannot sustain it for long (long enough, more than two minutes with a cap booster), but then, what gank ship can? The gankageddon runs out of cap eventually, and I don't see anyone complain about that.
People don't complain about it as:
a) The gankageddon can sustain it for more than 2 minutes b) The gankageddon can fight again 5 minutes later without having had to be followed around by a hauler with a new load of capbooster charges.
- It's great flying Amarr, aint it? |
Xordus
Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 11:47:00 -
[42]
As much as I love Tux, I'm still confused about this ship. After testing it really is ridiculous how much cap it eats. It needs something I think. Either more cap, better recharge, maybe a geddon sized drone bay (a way to deal dmg without cap), something. I like the idea of the ship, I just don't know if it will really be worth paying so much for when you can do most of the same things with the other 2 bs's. For now, I will trust in the Tuxford and pray he knows something I dont.
Xordus
|
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 13:04:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Malvahne People who say you can either be a 'tank' or a 'gank' thats great and all but with just tanking you get no where (Never ever did my 25k duel armour repping Armourgeddon killed any thing in pvp).
You forget something. This guide that other (mostly CALDARI people) tell is ment to AMARR people. Caldari can just fine tank AND gank. Only AMARR is most heavily affected with this stupid mantra.
Time to start training Caldari, eh? Part of forum movement known as "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö"
To be Kali, or not to be Lagi |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 13:21:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Kuolematon Time to start training Caldari, eh?
Thats what I did a couple of months ago. I have 10 days left for Amarr BS lvl5, and I think I will have caldari BS lvl5 before I go back to training it :) --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
LC Sulla
BGG Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 13:24:00 -
[45]
In all fairness to CCP. This is why the test server exists and why they are giving everyone a go of it BEFORE it's actuall release.
Just imagine if all the new ships entered TQ without testing . Of course if they ignore everyones comments and introduce them exactly the way they are now that's somehing else again.
|
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 13:31:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Godar Marak
Originally by: Rodj Blake
I've a setup in my head that may work (no, I'm not going to share it here).
Same here, max tank and autocannons. Its the only way, since without the cap bonus there simply isnt any reasons to fit lasers. If there were, we would have seen non Amarrian ships out there using lasers in pvp.
My setup involves lasers.
Max tank and autocannons should work just as well on the Apoc, because an MWD is always a big plus with them, and the Apoc has more cap to spare.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori |
Scordite
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 13:43:00 -
[47]
Originally by: LC Sulla In all fairness to CCP. This is why the test server exists and why they are giving everyone a go of it BEFORE it's actuall release.
Just imagine if all the new ships entered TQ without testing . Of course if they ignore everyones comments and introduce them exactly the way they are now that's somehing else again.
People have been pointing out that the aba concept is flawed ever since it was mentioned for the first time. Still, here it is on the test server. Bet you it goes live as is.
----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead. |
Godar Marak
Amarr Return Of Red Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 13:57:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Scordite
Originally by: LC Sulla In all fairness to CCP. This is why the test server exists and why they are giving everyone a go of it BEFORE it's actuall release.
Just imagine if all the new ships entered TQ without testing . Of course if they ignore everyones comments and introduce them exactly the way they are now that's somehing else again.
People have been pointing out that the aba concept is flawed ever since it was mentioned for the first time. Still, here it is on the test server. Bet you it goes live as is.
Indeed.
All you have to to is take ONE Look at the abaddon stats and wonder wtf were they thinking?
-------------------- Tuxford you broke my beloved EVE |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 13:57:00 -
[49]
Have you tried setting the ship up with cap rechargers etc, for maximum cap recharge with no tank?
The ship is supposed to gank OR tank, not both.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Lucre
STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 14:00:00 -
[50]
Originally by: LC Sulla In all fairness to CCP. This is why the test server exists and why they are giving everyone a go of it BEFORE it's actuall release.
No, the test server exists to find game-breaking bugs; they prioritise on those and still know they probably won't find them all in time. Minor bugs they might fix, they might not, but certainly don't count on it. Balance issues? Forget it.
I am trying desperately to remember in 3 years of Eve a single case where balance issues raised as a result of test server deployment resulted in any changes whatsoever being made before deployment on TQ. I'm sure there must be some, but offhand they escape me.
Which is why I always laugh (albeit frustratedly) at those who say "Why are you arguing about ships which haven't even appeared on the test server yet"? Why? Because as soon as they do it'll almost certainly be too late to fix them before the patch.
Abaddon. This isn't the ship we were looking for.
- It's great flying Amarr, aint it? |
|
Caol
The Smoking Room
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 14:06:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Forsch Maybe it's just me but I was under the impression that rigs should be used to add a flavor to your ship, a surprise, give it another direction.. but not to make it usable...
My thoughts regarding the Typhoon and the PWG rig i think i spotted
|
Nyxus
GALAXIAN Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 14:09:00 -
[52]
Forget autocannons.
Running some numbers you should be able to get a full rack of Neutron IIs, mwd, cap injector, web, 2 lar, 2 EANII, DC and a mag stab II on the Don with only 1 coproc 2
MUCH better damage than autocannons, and it can hit out to 20 with void easily, and the cap consumption is less than a megapulse geddon with conflag.
If you look for enough faction + implants you may be able to fit it without the coproc, which would allow for a plate. Better damage types as well.
How pathetic that the Don may be a better blasterboat than anything the Gallente have. It won't move fast with the MWD, but 20km range pretty much covers the majority of small group. Anything outside that and you can just warp off.
Nyxus
It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö
|
Deathbarrage
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 14:53:00 -
[53]
yeah you can fit an abaddon with 8 MP II and plates but that'll be all because you'll need to use the rest of your slots for cap mods, whereas in the geddon I can fit an omni tank with a LAR, 7x MP II and 3 dmg mods which is sustainable for as long as any battle will last
if you fit abaddon with plates and 8 MP II, you won't be able to fit enough dmg mods cuz you need to fit 2 cap relays along with your injector
|
Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 14:57:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Have you tried setting the ship up with cap rechargers etc, for maximum cap recharge with no tank?
The ship is supposed to gank OR tank, not both.
setting it up for gank should be no problem really. just slap big guns, heatsinks, plates and some capmods on and your done.
the problem lies with the tanking part. as can be seen with popular setups for other amarrian tankers using weapons with little or no capuse is somewhat more efficient when it comes to tanking. thats why you see autocannons on a punisher, maller or prophecy for exmaple. now all 3 of those share the tanking bonus with the abaddon. instead of the rof bonus they all have -10% cap use on lasers. however if you want to go for a really good tank on them you still pick autocannons or undersized hybrid weapons. not only will you use even less cap this way but you also gain a better damagetype and save a lot of grid for plate/repper/cap injector/nos.
if you try and tank a laser using abaddon you will want to fit loads of capmods. not just an injector and some relays. you could try and use a 2nd cap injector but that would require having some fool follow yu around with an indi full of charges to make good use of it. the need for more capmods will by itself reduce the ammount of resistance mods/plates ou can fit and thereby reduce your tankability.
so you will propably fill up to half your highslots with nos too which has its own problems: depending on a targetlock on an enemy with enough cap isnt all that great for a tanker. your goal will be to slowly wear the enemy down. this reqires longer combat -> better chance for your enemy to jamm you and thereby deny you cap from nossing. or your enemy can simply run out of cap himself but still damage you with his capless weapons. or he can simply nos you back. of course all those problems affect other setups as well but being able to maintain a good cap is a lot more important when your entire goal is to outtank the enemy and slowly take him apart.
in short: tanking with cap intensive weapons is _not_ a good idea. it wasnt a good idea on our other tanking boats and it will not suddenly turn into a good idea now without the capuse bonus on lasers.
now if the abaddon maybe got some (6 or 7) unbonused launcher slots added we could use those when tanking and wouldnt have to resort to matari weapons. in addition this would help to set the ship apart form our other two almost identical battleships as it would allow us to finally deal other types of damage and wouldnt be as vulnerable to tracking disruptors.
|
Siakel
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 15:41:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Wilfan Ret'nub
Originally by: Siakel http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/8159/closerangeamarrbsdpsxl8.jpg
Aye. Terrifying Megapulse DPS.
That's not Megapulse DPS. That's T2 Ogres and Megapulse DPS.
And? It's close-range DPS. 'Geddon pilots aren't going to stop using their drone bay to be fair to the Abaddon.
|
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
|
Posted - 2006.10.27 05:57:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne .. this would help to set the ship apart form our other two almost identical battleships ..
Indeed. Abandon cannot tank like Apoc nor gank like Geddon.
It's prolly only to show off or.. to be a miner platform.
Thats it! 8 turret slots with armor resist bonuses. 0.0 sec miner there! Finally truth revealed! Part of forum movement known as "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö"
To be Kali, or not to be Lagi |
Hitomi Ayame
Royal Knights of Khanid Order of the Khanid Crown
|
Posted - 2006.10.27 07:35:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Have you tried setting the ship up with cap rechargers etc, for maximum cap recharge with no tank?
The ship is supposed to gank OR tank, not both.
If you set it up for maximum cap recharge, then the Armageddon still ganks better because it can fit damage mods.
Not that the Armageddon doesn't already do better damage at Megapulse ranges. - - - Hitomi Ayame, Lady Marshal, Royal Knights of Khanid
The Royal Knights of Khanid are now recruiting! |
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
|
Posted - 2006.10.27 08:40:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Have you tried setting the ship up with cap rechargers etc, for maximum cap recharge with no tank?
The ship is supposed to gank OR tank, not both.
You Caldari eezemodnub, how about you setup your Raven to be eighter gank OR tank? No wait, you cannot because you will do both just swell!!!! Part of forum movement known as "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö"
To be Kali, or not to be Lagi |
Mirasta
Caldari Enigma Enterprises Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.10.27 08:47:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Mirasta on 27/10/2006 08:48:59
Originally by: Kuolematon
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne .. this would help to set the ship apart form our other two almost identical battleships ..
Indeed. Abandon cannot tank like Apoc nor gank like Geddon.
It's prolly only to show off or.. to be a miner platform.
Thats it! 8 turret slots with armor resist bonuses. 0.0 sec miner there! Finally truth revealed!
Edit - For first post of the day speeeling and engrish
You are some kind of sorcerer, thats genius . My alts apoc is going in the bin when kali comes out.
Its great having an Ammar mining alt, aint it?
Of couse, You are now reading my sig. |
Galen Silas
Gallente Digital assassins
|
Posted - 2006.10.30 15:18:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Galen Silas on 30/10/2006 15:18:41 I think its funny that amarr actually got shafted on this, the new bs runs outta cap quickyl and thats good news to me, either its tank or gank, if the guy has a gank just get in close and kill him, myself i am a fan of tracking distruptors, and if i go up against a gank abaddon, I'm gonna toast it, and about the amarr deserving it, yes they do, they need a screwball ship. If though i hapent o go up against a tanked out one, at least i don't have to worry about much offense.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |