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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Dwissi
Miners Delight
33
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Posted - 2014.10.12 10:01:00 -
[211] - Quote
I love the unlimited skill queue - even if i don't understand that you never had the idea to offer that as a one-time-payment service to us. I would have been all for that (gets ready for the incoming hate wave)
But please - i agree with others: No more extra lights pretty please. It has become a real annoyance actually when your windows are pinned and opaque requiring constant adjustment now. Proud designer of glasses for geeky dovakins |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3061
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Posted - 2014.10.12 10:34:00 -
[212] - Quote
It should be obvious at this point that players who have an opinion about brighter nebulas oppose them, and some would rather like a darker background for their interface. Being a bittervet, I know that the change will go through, as with everything the Art Deparment gets OK'ed, and players/customers be damned, but at least we said what we oppose and why, so now the ball is on CCP.
It just is tiresome that each time some bloody artist comes up with some bright idea, CCP can't say "no hell no, that would be bad for our customers" and we're reduced to helplessly complain about CCP's artwork hurting our eyes and making our game more difficult to play without an opt-out.
It is so, so tiresome... The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
95
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Posted - 2014.10.12 11:43:00 -
[213] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:It should be obvious at this point that players who have an opinion about brighter nebulas oppose them, and some would rather like a darker background for their interface. Being a bittervet, I know that the change will go through, as with everything the Art Deparment gets OK'ed, and players/customers be damned, but at least we said what we oppose and why, so now the ball is on CCP. It just is tiresome that each time some bloody artist comes up with some bright idea, CCP can't say "no hell no, that would be bad for our customers" and we're reduced to helplessly complain about CCP's artwork hurting our eyes and making our game more difficult to play without an opt-out. It is so, so tiresome...
Bad interactions between gameplay/UI and art are a concern, and the graphics QA team do look at all art changes with this in mind. However, they're not going to catch everything you might encounter in-game, because not everyone uses their UI the same way, and so it really does help if you report any serious frustrations you encounter in this area.
The best way to do this reporting is through the Bug Reporting tool, which you can get to by hitting F12 and clicking on the button there.
The best bug reports on this type of issue illustrate the problem with a screenshot, because you may be encountering specific combinations of artwork and UI arrangement that don't occur to the QA analyst even after reading your report. Be as specific and visual as possible -- saying "The new nebulas suck because I can't see UI element" may not be enough information to identify exactly what you're experiencing. Also, it's possible that new graphics or the UI render differently on your machine from others, so a picture can help identify that.
As far as the change to make nebulas brighter: That wasn't simply a change for the look of open space. Nebula brightness also interacts with in-game lighting, and various changes to ship lighting and rendering in our engine benefit from the change as well. If there were unanticipated impacts on gameplay, though, we'd like to hear about it through the bug report system.
I personally am interested in improving our response to feedback on this type of issue, so please keep offering the feedback, here for the minor irritations and in bug reports for the major roadblocks. CCP Darwin -áGÇó-á-áSenior Technical Artist, EVE Online -áGÇó-á-á@mark_wilkins |
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Miriya Zakalwe
New Eden Scallywags Point Blank Alliance
179
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Posted - 2014.10.12 12:16:00 -
[214] - Quote
How about a separate option to disable the nebulas entirely? Or does that exist? |
Horus V
The Destined Drunken Hyena Association
88
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Posted - 2014.10.12 13:55:00 -
[215] - Quote
Any chance to see background stars look a bit sharper in the near future? V |
ForceM
POS Builder Inc. Silent Requiem
23
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Posted - 2014.10.12 15:45:00 -
[216] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:It should be obvious at this point that players who have an opinion about brighter nebulas oppose them, and some would rather like a darker background for their interface. Being a bittervet, I know that the change will go through, as with everything the Art Deparment gets OK'ed, and players/customers be damned, but at least we said what we oppose and why, so now the ball is on CCP. It just is tiresome that each time some bloody artist comes up with some bright idea, CCP can't say "no hell no, that would be bad for our customers" and we're reduced to helplessly complain about CCP's artwork hurting our eyes and making our game more difficult to play without an opt-out. It is so, so tiresome... Bad interactions between gameplay/UI and art are a concern, and the graphics QA team do look at all art changes with this in mind. However, they're not going to catch everything you might encounter in-game, because not everyone uses their UI the same way, and so it really does help if you report any serious frustrations you encounter in this area. The best way to do this reporting is through the Bug Reporting tool, which you can get to by hitting F12 and clicking on the button there. The best bug reports on this type of issue illustrate the problem with a screenshot, because you may be encountering specific combinations of artwork and UI arrangement that don't occur to the QA analyst even after reading your report. Be as specific and visual as possible -- saying "The new nebulas suck because I can't see UI element" may not be enough information to identify exactly what you're experiencing. Also, it's possible that new graphics or the UI render differently on your machine from others, so a picture can help identify that. As far as the change to make nebulas brighter: That wasn't simply a change for the look of open space. Nebula brightness also interacts with in-game lighting, and various changes to ship lighting and rendering in our engine benefit from the change as well. If there were unanticipated impacts on gameplay, though, we'd like to hear about it through the bug report system. I personally am interested in improving our response to feedback on this type of issue, so please keep offering the feedback, here for the minor irritations and in bug reports for the major roadblocks.
The problem with this is exactly what Indahmawar Fazmarai is saying ... You will put this change through and THEN we can complain about it.
At this moment were saying it is ALREADY to bright and you want to make it brighter.
Its like the goverment ... "yes sir we made a mistake ... this fine is completely wrong ... so pay the fine so we can pay you back."
Seriously ... come on. |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
99
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Posted - 2014.10.12 16:02:00 -
[217] - Quote
ForceM wrote:The problem with this is exactly what Indahmawar Fazmarai is saying ... You will put this change through and THEN we can complain about it.
As I said, our QA team does look at changes with gameplay impact in mind before a change ever gets released. You may have a problem they didn't see, though. Thousands of players can catch problems that a small QA team will miss, and that's why we have a system for reporting those issues.
Also, please understand that art/gameplay interactions are almost always subjective and depend on your graphics settings, your monitor, and so on. This is why submitting a screenshot is so important. CCP Darwin -áGÇó-á-áSenior Technical Artist, EVE Online -áGÇó-á-á@mark_wilkins |
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Mharius Skjem
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2014.10.12 16:20:00 -
[218] - Quote
After all of these years of playing (been here since 2008) and being mindful of the difficult post incarnate period I can honestly say that finally it feels like Eve is moving in the right direction at long last and that good things are not only coming but they keep on coming.
Well done to the Devs! A recovering btter vet, -áwith a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve... |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3061
|
Posted - 2014.10.12 17:04:00 -
[219] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:It should be obvious at this point that players who have an opinion about brighter nebulas oppose them, and some would rather like a darker background for their interface. Being a bittervet, I know that the change will go through, as with everything the Art Deparment gets OK'ed, and players/customers be damned, but at least we said what we oppose and why, so now the ball is on CCP. It just is tiresome that each time some bloody artist comes up with some bright idea, CCP can't say "no hell no, that would be bad for our customers" and we're reduced to helplessly complain about CCP's artwork hurting our eyes and making our game more difficult to play without an opt-out. It is so, so tiresome... Bad interactions between gameplay/UI and art are a concern, and the graphics QA team do look at all art changes with this in mind. However, they're not going to catch everything you might encounter in-game, because not everyone uses their UI the same way, and so it really does help if you report any serious frustrations you encounter in this area. The best way to do this reporting is through the Bug Reporting tool, which you can get to by hitting F12 and clicking on the button there. The best bug reports on this type of issue illustrate the problem with a screenshot, because you may be encountering specific combinations of artwork and UI arrangement that don't occur to the QA analyst even after reading your report. Be as specific and visual as possible -- saying "The new nebulas suck because I can't see UI element" may not be enough information to identify exactly what you're experiencing. Also, it's possible that new graphics or the UI render differently on your machine from others, so a picture can help identify that. As far as the change to make nebulas brighter: That wasn't simply a change for the look of open space. Nebula brightness also interacts with in-game lighting, and various changes to ship lighting and rendering in our engine benefit from the change as well. If there were unanticipated impacts on gameplay, though, we'd like to hear about it through the bug report system. I personally am interested in improving our response to feedback on this type of issue, so please keep offering the feedback, here for the minor irritations and in bug reports for the major roadblocks.
But... it's not a bug. It's just that the nebulae are too bright and wash out the interface:
Image 1
Sun flare and nebula; status bars for targets and their name are unreadable.
Image 2
Sun flare and nebula; H/A/S arches barely readable, status of module cycle can't be seen
Image 3
No flare, only the nebula; status bars for targets can be seen with difficulty, target names are barely readable.
Image 4
No flare, only the nebula; H/A/S aches readable, status of module cycle barely can be seen
And this is just the nebula at The Forge, which is not a specially bright one, compared to Amarran space. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3061
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Posted - 2014.10.12 17:13:00 -
[220] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:ForceM wrote:The problem with this is exactly what Indahmawar Fazmarai is saying ... You will put this change through and THEN we can complain about it. As I said, our QA team does look at changes with gameplay impact in mind before a change ever gets released. You may have a problem they didn't see, though. Thousands of players can catch problems that a small QA team will miss, and that's why we have a system for reporting those issues. Also, please understand that art/gameplay interactions are almost always subjective and depend on your graphics settings, your monitor, and so on. This is why submitting a screenshot is so important.
Yes, and as they are subjective, you should allow the players to trim what they see in their game and their computer. How about the ability to tune the gamma of nebulae during their rendering at the client? That way all the objects would get the appropiate lighting but the nebuale themselves could be rendered at a gamma setting that suited to the player's needs and circumstances.
The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
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Velarra
323
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Posted - 2014.10.12 18:43:00 -
[221] - Quote
One long standing issue with Eve has been that it is TOO BRIGHT. Regardless of graphics card, monitor or setting.
The ability to alter the gamma, brightness and contrast ~in the game preferences~ would be perfect.
Forcing a fixed increase in brightness that can't be altered by the client would be a mistake.
Which equally triggers the question, why on earth is the CCP art department so consistently fixated on forcing its aesthetic sensibilities on the player-base rather than giving players the option to make changes to such basic things such as lighting? Or dare it be brought up again, - the forced camera rotation issue of a year or so ago (that seems finally addressed/fixed). |
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
502
|
Posted - 2014.10.12 20:43:00 -
[222] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote: Bad interactions between gameplay/UI and art are a concern, and the graphics QA team do look at all art changes with this in mind. However, they're not going to catch everything you might encounter in-game, because not everyone uses their UI the same way, and so it really does help if you report any serious frustrations you encounter in this area.
Be as specific and visual as possible -- saying "The new nebulas suck because I can't see UI element" may not be enough information to identify exactly what you're experiencing. Also, it's possible that new graphics or the UI render differently on your machine from others, so a picture can help identify that.
This is exactly why changes to the background graphics, esp. lighting, should be previewed by the UI team, not a graphics QA team.
A graphics QA team is mostly looking for broken graphics - bad geometry, buggy shaders, missing texture maps, etc. They tweak their graphics cards and monitors accordingly and don't always test against a range of standard settings on different machines.
The UI team is the group which should be concerned that the UI elements stand out easily, against any background graphics. They should also be ensuring that their UI design choices will always be workable, on a variety of standard graphics card and monitor settings (obviously not in cases where someone tweaks the gamma to 0.1 or 2.0). For example, confirming that the same font style/size is readable on laptop displays as well as on larger desktop monitors.
Also, stating that "'The new nebulas wash out UI element' may not be enough information for a QA analyst" only proves that they are the wrong people to be previewing the effects of background graphics changes on the UI. This information should indeed be sufficient for any member of an UI team to investigate the situation. |
Regnag Leppod
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
63
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Posted - 2014.10.12 20:49:00 -
[223] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote: This is exactly why changes to the background graphics, esp. lighting, should be previewed by the UI team, not a graphics QA team.
Exactly.
While I applaud many of the other changes, making any sort of space graphics brighter is just generally a bad idea in my opinion. For example, the UI team should be required to run The Blockade (level 4, Sansha) a dozen times or so. That and have them use a short range (blaster, pulse laser, etc) ship on the Sansha side of the first room in Worlds Collide.
Sure, lots of mission runners have worked their way around these glaring problems, but they are a perfect example of how some things in this game are well beyond "too bright" for the UI to be readable. |
Wizzard117
Viziam Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2014.10.12 21:46:00 -
[224] - Quote
I might have missed something but still some questions
1. Will we see additional modules "tiericide" rebalance this patch? 2. There were signs of some new technology related to current "collect sleeper loot" event. Will we gain something related to this new technology this patch? |
Dominique Vasilkovsky
BFG Tech
23
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Posted - 2014.10.12 22:06:00 -
[225] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Oh Takashawa wrote:Can the unlimited skill queue be set to include skills that you can't yet inject due to prereqs? Perhaps at some point, but not in Phoebe Please let us queue up the yearly neural remaps while at it.
I can't wait to only have to log in once every few years to check the skill progress. From Russia with love. |
Hicksimus
Torgue
363
|
Posted - 2014.10.12 23:56:00 -
[226] - Quote
Wizzard117 wrote:I might have missed something but still some questions
2. There were signs of some new technology related to current "collect sleeper loot" event. Will we gain something related to this new technology this patch?
Who says you guys weren't scammed by NPCs? Do you have it? |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
99
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Posted - 2014.10.13 00:13:00 -
[227] - Quote
Quote:How about the ability to tune the gamma of nebulae during their rendering at the client?
Quote:The ability to alter the gamma, brightness and contrast ~in the game preferences~ would be perfect.
This feedback has been around for a while and believe me, it's been heard. I can't say when an actual feature might come out of it.
Quote:Which equally triggers the question, why on earth is the CCP art department so consistently fixated on forcing its aesthetic sensibilities on the player-base rather than giving players the option to make changes to such basic things such as lighting?
Almost every computer game in existence is art directed by its developers. However, that doesn't preclude features like a gamma slider being added. Better than that, though, would be a design that offers better UI readability in the first place. I've heard your feedback on this and I will make sure others on the EVE team hear about it as well.
Quote:A graphics QA team is mostly looking for broken graphics - bad geometry, buggy shaders, missing texture maps, etc. They tweak their graphics cards and monitors accordingly and don't always test against a range of standard settings on different machines.
Our graphics QA team concern themselves with a broader range of issues than that, and they do in fact test on a range of machines. On usability-related issues, they don't have the final say, but they have a strong voice and player feedback makes a difference.
To Indahmawar Fazmarai: Thanks for posting the images. I'll pass along the feedback with those pictures as illustrations. It does make a big difference to be able to point to an image when discussing these matters, so there's no ambiguity about what you're saying. CCP Darwin -áGÇó-á-áSenior Technical Artist, EVE Online -áGÇó-á-á@mark_wilkins |
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test tube bunny
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.10.13 00:29:00 -
[228] - Quote
I hope the Chinese Serenity server is getting the same changes. God knows they sure as hell need smaller coalitions!
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/VeriteChina/Cinfluence.png
It would be hypocritical to say this will fix our server and not theirs. |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
77
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Posted - 2014.10.13 01:43:00 -
[229] - Quote
Who really gives a **** about Serenity besides CCP and Chinese EVE players? Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer] |
BeanBagKing
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
307
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 02:08:00 -
[230] - Quote
Adding my signature to "The nebula are too bright!"
Or perhaps it's "The text it too light!"
Really I think there should be bright and dark areas of space. I think it spices things up and adds some variety to the game. What others are saying is spot on though.
Anything with white text/lines/status symbols should have like a black glow/outline to it to you can read it no matter what is in the background.
https://i.imgur.com/Z6NP8zV.png
That, I think, would solve the problem of not being able to read things. Granted some people may still hate the brightness, but that's a personal preference vs a bug/problem with the game.
Also, I don't know if the gas clouds are counted as part of the nebula (I don't think they are being discussed here) but OH MY F-@!# GOD you want to talk about bright? THOSE are the things that need to be toned down. |
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hinata's cool anime
Rapid Withdrawal
0
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Posted - 2014.10.13 04:42:00 -
[231] - Quote
hi probaley not the right place for this I think it could be nice/good to have the skill queue so that you can inject skills that you cant trane yet and maybe just have it so you can put it in order if you want to trane the skills you kind of cant trane yet if this isint in the right place could someone post it there for me plz and thanks if you do all so I don't realy like forums I think it would be nice if you could just post iders to ccp in game prehapps |
Miriya Zakalwe
New Eden Scallywags Point Blank Alliance
179
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Posted - 2014.10.13 06:01:00 -
[232] - Quote
Seriously asking, why not provide an option to disable the nebula entirely?
The nebula are, forgive me for saying this, dumb.
Real nebula to not look like that. The images you see of real nebula that *do* look like that are long-exposure shots (sometimes hours) done to bring out the fine details. Real nebula would be faint smudgy things even from nearby them.
They would actually be invisible from the inside. Google "law of conservation of surface brightness."
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Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
564
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Posted - 2014.10.13 13:22:00 -
[233] - Quote
Aside from the UI issues my main gripe about bright nebulae is their affect on immersion.
I doubt that I am the only one who is here as a sci-fi fan who likes flying internet spaceships rather than a gamer in the broader sense. As such, I like the environment to represent what I would expect deep space to look like in reality.
While there are undeniably parts of the universe that appear brightly luminous, either to the naked eye or under certain viewing conditions, it is my understanding that these are almost invariably regions of intense cosmic activity, such as areas where new stars are being formed or where there has been a recent (in the astronomical sense) cataclysmic event. As such they would be highly unlikely to contain mature solar systems like those of New Eden. |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
105
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Posted - 2014.10.13 14:09:00 -
[234] - Quote
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:Real nebulae to not look like that.
My academic background is in physics, specializing in astronomy, so I sympathize with your point of view, but I can say based on my experience in the entertainment business that such an argument will never convince an art director. CCP Darwin -áGÇó-á-áSenior Technical Artist, EVE Online -áGÇó-á-á@mark_wilkins |
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Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
564
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Posted - 2014.10.13 14:12:00 -
[235] - Quote
Also:
Wot? Still no new Dominix model? |
Miriya Zakalwe
New Eden Scallywags Point Blank Alliance
179
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Posted - 2014.10.13 14:39:00 -
[236] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Miriya Zakalwe wrote:Real nebulae to not look like that. My academic background is in physics, specializing in astronomy, so I sympathize with your point of view, but I can say based on my experience in the entertainment business that such an argument will never convince an art director.
Oh, no argument of course. I'm just saying that an option to disable them would be nice; I found a while back that I subconsciously seek out systems with low nebulosity to spend time in, because the nebulae are irritating when too bright. |
Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
376
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 18:04:00 -
[237] - Quote
Actually, I could deal with the bright - but adjustment would be great for eve - but there is also the PC's own graphical adj... which I have been able to work with for EVE.
My only really issue with bright background is that the standard "white" and the selected "Yellow" are too similar on the OV... I would much reather have my selected object in that list be a green or something contrasting to the main text... that would be very helpful...
OR!... sudden idea!... how about a color selector for the text like we have for broadcasts? - maybe? maybe? perhaps?... yes? - would be good... I feel it in the forums, as though a great many posters will suddenly like this concept. Imperial Academy [IAC] Member for 5 years, 2 months, 29 days as of 10.09.2014.
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Nlex
Domini Canium
43
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Posted - 2014.10.13 20:02:00 -
[238] - Quote
Infinite skill queue? Now I need not log in at all! |
ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything. Clockwork Pineapple
238
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Posted - 2014.10.13 22:16:00 -
[239] - Quote
Velarra wrote:Which equally triggers the question, why on earth is the CCP art department so consistently fixated on forcing its aesthetic sensibilities on the player-base I challenge you to find a well-recieved game in the last 20 years that doesn't do this. |
Alexiel Fireborn
Cube Ural corporation Northern Associates.
0
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Posted - 2014.10.13 23:07:00 -
[240] - Quote
I am always wondering why there isnt Relic sites in Drone region, so will be nice to put some in, and those annoying useless data site there too need improvement ... |
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