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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 38 post(s) |
June Ting
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
87
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Posted - 2014.10.09 18:27:00 -
[61] - Quote
Thank you. And let me be clear: the fact that XavierVE is saying good things about this is some pretty damn high praise indeed :) I fight for the freedom of my people. |
Panther X
High Flyers The Kadeshi
15
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Posted - 2014.10.09 18:27:00 -
[62] - Quote
Capqu wrote:dunno why you incur a fatigue on blops at all tbh, all it does is make you idle in your client for 30 mins afk cloaked in your targets' system while fatigue runs down. just a waste of time, it's not like you're vulnerable while you're cloaked there
everything else seems gr8, im glad our logistics players wont be committing sudoku
Lol Sudoku... that's funny right there, I dont care who you are |
Evelgrivion
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
320
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:27:00 -
[63] - Quote
Mr Omniblivion wrote:Evelgrivion wrote:I don't really like the thought of Titan-bridged freighters The problem is getting the titans to where you need them to bridge the freighters. Titans themselves still have the full jump fatigue, so they are still at full risk when doing a freighter chain.
This only represents a hurdle, at most. If need be, the big alliances are particularly capable of leveraging one Titan into each relevant bridge point, especially when everyone knows (though no one seems to be able to prove) that lots of people share Titan characters to keep them available at all times. Smaller groups (and wholly EULA compliant players) will not be able to compete with larger groups in this respect. |
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
409
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:27:00 -
[64] - Quote
Querns wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Mr Omniblivion wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Rorquals will stay at 5LY/90%
Is there a reason that Rorquals don't get the same 10LY range as JFs? Rorquals are used just as much for logistics as JFs, especially because their actual intended use isn't really...useful. We didn't think it was sensible to let it keep its drone bonus and have a 10LY range, and at the end of the day the bonus won out. The ship needs a large rework anyway, and we'll revisit all this when that happens :) I think anyone who is sane would willingly trade the drone damage bonus on rorquals for the extended range. If you're going to rework the ship anyways, this is the clear sacrifice to make. Hell, replace the drone damage bonus on the hull with 20% additional jump range per level.
Yeah, I would think that almost nobody puts Rorquals on the grid anyway, it usually just boosts from inside of a POS shield. The risk is too high. If it IS on grid then it's an obvious bait :) |
Hendrick Tallardar
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
256
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Posted - 2014.10.09 18:28:00 -
[65] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:In the past week, from October 2nd, rorquals have been involved in 10 kills on zkillboard.
Obviously, the drone bonus is the reason everyone is flying these goddamn things.
Seriously, does ANYONE there play eve?
I'm sure if you keep accusing CCP of not playing the game, you'll eventually convince them you're right. Keep it up, I'm rooting for you! LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
1277
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:29:00 -
[66] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:David Magnus wrote:These do address some of the bigger concerns, thanks for taking the time to post about these! Have there been changes to death-clone camping, or did I miss that in a different thread? Death clone camping is handled by the new medical clone changes that are being implemented right now. The short version is that you'll always be able to intentionally revoke your clone contract somewhere and have it reset to your rookie system. wait what, where is this On Nullarbor's computer, currently. Also, to everyone who was wondering whether or not I listened, I read 4000 freaking posts by myself. Whether or not I agreed with the concerns was an open question, but I hope it was obvious from my posting that I was paying attention!
Did you like my joke?
Also have you considered increasing the ship maintenance bays of ships like Titans and SCs so that they fit more of a "logistical" role? I think if a titan could have a 20-50million m^3 ship maintenance bay it could start tweaking the role of the ship and make it more en vogue. It would allow an alliance to have a strategic asset in the Titan, have a subcap escort fleet to position the titan (or titans) deep into enemy space, and be able to base out of it instead of forcing every attacking foe to live in NPC null. So in this brave new world with 50million m^3 SMAs, an alliance that would have moved 250 carriers twice - jumping from NPC station to NPC station completely risk free - could instead move 10 Titans + an escort fleet of 200. Through gates. Loaded with billions of isk worth of ships. Think of how glorious that could be! Please I need this. ~ |
The Ironfist
Nordbot Capitals Northern Associates.
62
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Posted - 2014.10.09 18:29:00 -
[67] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi everyone, We've collected, parsed and thoroughly discussed your *extensive* feedback on the proposed long-distance travel changes, both in the official thread and elsewhere, consulted with the CSM, and made adjustments accordingly. Conclusions we have reached through this exercise: - The ease of nullsec logistics permitted by jump freighters and, to a lesser extent, jump bridge networks is not aligned with where we would like nullsec industry to be.
- It *is*, however, pretty well aligned with where nullsec industry is right now. As we improve the status quo for industry in nullsec, we will want to reevaluate this balance, along with the impact potential changes would have on logistical work for other areas of the game.
- We're pretty happy with the impact of the proposed changes on the movement of non-covert combat ships, as it relates to both jump drives and jump bridges, for all ranges.
- We're not overly concerned about the battle rorqual; if it starts being used in a widespread fashion, we will nerf it, but we're not expecting this to happen.
- Black ops are working in a generally OK manner on TQ right now, and we want to minimize harm to their use with these changes.
- We don't like repeating decimals.
Therefore, changes we are making to the previously-announced plan: - Jump freighter max range will be bumped up to 10LY, and they will keep the 90% fatigue-distance reduction. This represents a slight range reduction compared to TQ, so some cynos will need to be repositioned, but otherwise leaves them largely alone. Note that, because ranges multiply together for fatigue purposes, one 10LY jump is *substantially* less fatiguing (multiply by 11) than two 5LY jumps (multiply by 36). Rorquals will stay at 5LY/90%
- All ships designated as having a "hauling" role in ISIS (ie the following ship groups: Industrial, Blockade Runner, Deep Space Transport, Industrial Command Ship, Freighter) will similarly get a 90% reduction to distance counted for the purpose of fatigue generation. Obviously they can't jump themselves, but this also applies on use of bridges or portals.
- We are adding some additional code to allow us to put a bonus on jump portals that reduces fatigue generation for all ships jumping through that portal. This will be applied to Covert Jump Portals, with a value of around 50% (subject to further tuning). This means that all ships using a black ops portal will generate less fatigue.
- We're going to bump the max range of black ops ships up slightly to 8LY, and likewise give them a ~50% fatigue bonus.
- Finally, we're slightly nerfing JDC5, from 25%/level to 20%/level, and tuning base ranges accordingly. This allows us to give most capital ships a base range of 2.5LY, rather than 2.2r LY, and still hit our max range targets. More work on these skills will probably be done in future, this is just minimum changes necessary to get these changes on TQ so we can see how they play out in practice and establish how comparatively valuable their different bonuses are.
These changes should all be hitting Singularity in the next few days; please give us feedback when they land! Thanks, -Greyscale
I know people will be mad about this but 10ly is too much. It should be no more then 7,5-7,85ly something in that ballpark. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2240
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:29:00 -
[68] - Quote
Cool. Might also want to check this thread on reddit regarding super carrier projection with ascendancies and hyperspatial accelerators post-phoebe. Keep in mind that those super fits don't give up *too* much ehp given that you can swap the low slots back to combat fit fairly easily. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
860
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:30:00 -
[69] - Quote
A thought occurs: does fatigue reduction stack? If I bridge a blockade runner (now with inherent 90% fatigue reduction) through a covert bridge (-50% fatigue), am I looking at a cumulative fatigue reduction? If that isn't desired, I'd just suggest that the best fatigue reduction factor be used when doing the calculation. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Schluffi Schluffelsen
State War Academy Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2014.10.09 18:31:00 -
[70] - Quote
Decent compromise, don't get why you're not buffing the rorqual tho.
For the grand vision of smaller empires and more fights, could you add some npc space to be able to reinforce all the thingies, especially those who think they can hide behind a wall of renters? Love you long time :) |
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5474
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Posted - 2014.10.09 18:32:00 -
[71] - Quote
/facepalm The Paradox |
Pandaest Bee
Shooting Blues Everyday
0
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Posted - 2014.10.09 18:32:00 -
[72] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Querns wrote:Mixed feelings on this.
* Pretty sad to see JFs getting 10LY range. Their 5LY range allowed for some meaningful ability to disrupt incoming logistics. 10LY eliminates a lot of possibilities here. - Yes, but that logistics is already in too fragile a place to be able to reliably survive that disruption
You mean to tell me you didn't just massively buff freighters and jump freighters?
|
Polo Marco
Four Winds
17
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Posted - 2014.10.09 18:32:00 -
[73] - Quote
You know guys, when a horse kicks or bites you don't cut off its hooves or pull its teeth. You modify either the behavior of the horse or the behavior of the person using it. Nullsec sov, politics and combat methods have everything to do with what motivates the users of these ships and not the ships themselves. You hobble the horse, he's not worth his feed so its off to the auction block with him. You give the rider gloves and a shinguard and he never learns how to manage the animal. You are treating the symptoms not the problem.
Why don't you try this first:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5078735#post5078735
Fixing a clock is easier to do with a screwdriver than a hammer.............. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
984
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:32:00 -
[74] - Quote
These changes are good, I think they're a big improvement on the logistics side. |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
546
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:33:00 -
[75] - Quote
Yroc Jannseen wrote:Milton Middleson wrote:Quote:All ships designated as having a "hauling" role in ISIS (ie the following ship groups: Industrial, Blockade Runner, Deep Space Transport, Industrial Command Ship, Freighter) will similarly get a 90% reduction to distance counted for the purpose of fatigue generation. Obviously they can't jump themselves, but this also applies on use of bridges or portals. This makes it extremely likely that you will see these ships used as bridge taxis in order to move people and material around as quickly as before. I think you should seriously reconsider this. Not likely. Blockade runners are still pretty vulnerable to bubbles and cost near 200m now. If someone has a choice between taking jump bridges but potentially losing a 200m ship or taking an interceptor that costs a lot less and is bubble immune, they'll take the interceptor.
You realize it applies to regular industrials as well? Many of which are cheap-as-free and can be made fairly agile. |
Hendrick Tallardar
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
256
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:33:00 -
[76] - Quote
Elise Randolph wrote:Did you like my joke?
Also have you considered increasing the ship maintenance bays of ships like Titans and SCs so that they fit more of a "logistical" role? I think if a titan could have a 20-50million m^3 ship maintenance bay it could start tweaking the role of the ship and make it more en vogue. It would allow an alliance to have a strategic asset in the Titan, have a subcap escort fleet to position the titan (or titans) deep into enemy space, and be able to base out of it instead of forcing every attacking foe to live in NPC null. So in this brave new world with 50million m^3 SMAs, an alliance that would have moved 250 carriers twice - jumping from NPC station to NPC station completely risk free - could instead move 10 Titans + an escort fleet of 200. Through gates. Loaded with billions of isk worth of ships. Think of how glorious that could be! Please I need this.
Please do this. If not for Supers, for Titans as they are rather only being used as mobile Jump Bridges outside the rare battle like B-R. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
984
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:34:00 -
[77] - Quote
Polo Marco wrote:You know guys, when a horse kicks or bites you don't cut off its hooves or pull its teeth. You modify either the behavior of the horse or the behavior of the person using it. Nullsec sov, politics and combat methods have everything to do with what motivates the users of these ships and not the ships themselves. You hobble the horse, he's not worth his feed so its off to the auction block with him. You give the rider gloves and a shinguard and he never learns how to manage the animal. You are treating the symptoms not the problem. Why don't you try this first: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5078735#post5078735Fixing a clock is easier to do with a screwdriver than a hammer.............. that is an impressive amount of bad ideas packed into one post without disrupting its purity with a single good idea |
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Brothers of Tangra
68
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:34:00 -
[78] - Quote
Please increase the Mexallon in nullsec ores |
Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
2089
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:34:00 -
[79] - Quote
This shall be interesting... ....and the only warning was the last line of the patch notes, which said. "Oh yeah, we also shuffled Moon Goo around!" Show your support, move Moon Goo with Power Projection changes!-á |
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
112
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:36:00 -
[80] - Quote
I take back all the horrible things I said about you Greyscale. 10ly jump range for JF still makes drone lands logistics much harder but at a level we can adapt to. To show our gratitude, you can have your way with any of my logistics pilots. |
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Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
119
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Posted - 2014.10.09 18:36:00 -
[81] - Quote
These changes, while positive, still allow for the work around of multiple characters. I'll do the douche-y thing of quoting myself in hopes that it gets addressed. Original Post
Makari Aeron wrote:Upon further research into this topic, I find it impossibly easy for anyone in EVE to bypass this proposed feature. Let me explain. A player needs to go to his/her staging system. Said staging system is 20ly away, or 4 jumps. Normally, this would take quite some time as Jump Fatigue would kick in for the pilot. However, this pilot has 4 alts (A, B, C, and D) besides the main character. All pilots can fly his/her carrier and has max jump skills. Instead of taking quite a bit of game time and risk getting to the staging system, this pilot simply pre-stages his/her alts in the systems ahead of time using nearly uncatchable interceptors. As such, the carrier gets to the staging system as such: Quote:Alt A jumps the carrier to System 1 where it trades it off to alt B. Alt B then waits for the capacitor to recharge and jumps to System 2 where the carrier is passed off to Alt C. Alt C then waits for the capacitor to recharge and jumps to System 3 where Alt D jumps into the carrier and waits for the capacitor to recharge before jumping to System 4 (the staging system) where the Pilot's main is waiting. As you can see, each character only made one jump thus only imposing one stack of penalties which quickly fades away. You don't even need to be with a large entity in EVE to do this. You just need 2 accounts! Account 1 has the Main, Alt A, and Alt D while Account 2 has Alt A and Alt C. This so-called "power projection nerf" does nothing to squelch the power projection from the large entities, it simply promotes the creation of more active accounts or multi-character training in order to get the same results prior to this patch's implementation (Note: I do not know if this is an intended consequence and I will not speculate on it). It is also impossible to tie the Jump Fatigue to the ships because the player only has to repackage the ship in order to trick the server into thinking the ship is a generic object. It's why when you repackage ships they lose their name as the meta data is erased. Instead of going to great lengths to make the game more complicated for everyone when a bypass is simply to throw more ISK or IRL money at the game (Note: I do not know if this is an intended consequence and I will not speculate on it) in order to get an easier result, why not simply increase the "size" of the universe? By this I mean space out each constellation and region farther from each other. Every system in EVE has a absolute XYZ coordinate in the database. Spread out the distance between Regions and possibly even Constellations instead of adding in Jump Fatigue. Sure, this will definitely take a while to do but it will not be easy to bypass. Distances are longer and thus more fuel must be spent. No, it won't fix the absolute problem of power projection, but it will make it harder and more risky. Couple this with the 5ly jump and make it near impossible to cross regions without being close to the Region Gate system and you'll create choke points which increase PvP opportunities. All in all, I believe that CCP was attempting to do the correct thing here but has failed to map out all of the consequences of this change. Something that the CSM should have been able to catch and report to CCP straight away. Let's hope it simply slipped through the cracks instead of being maliciously ignored. By implementing this newly proposed feature nothing will change. Power projection will stay the same and CCP will have put in quite a bit of work on a well-intentioned feature which makes them look the fool.
CCP RedDawn:Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty..||| CCP Goliath:I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. ||| CCP Goliath:http://goo.gl/PKGDPZ |
Fonac
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:37:00 -
[82] - Quote
\O/ yay updates.
First of all, thank you for taking your time to read and reply with feedback, that was very very cool.
1. I still feel the black ops need a smaller fatigue, i realise that they may be used a transportation ship instead of combat, but they have a very high skill requirement, and only a handfull of people can use them. I've often had to jump several jumps, in order to get to my target, i know i could use gates, and i know that the whole "i'll just jump everywhere fast" mantra has to be nerfed, but still, i'll need to get back aswell. and this will now take hours! (still) Mobility means alot with these kinds of ships.. and even more so, if you use them for pve(which i've done extensively)
2. I actually kinda liked the low range of JF's this ment that 0.0 mining and all the industry that followed, would be viable and needed again. And that those who eventually ventured out and jumped stuff to an outpost, could really make some big isk. Another little note, is that the fatigue is kinda useless here, since you'll mostly do one jump a day max. The only real nerf i see here, is for black frog, that does this daily and muliple times a day...
Otherwise everything look good. I look forward to the changes.(ALOT) |
MinHui
Type Active Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:37:00 -
[83] - Quote
thx EVE gods.. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
986
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:38:00 -
[84] - Quote
Makari Aeron wrote:These changes, while positive, still allow for the work around of multiple characters. I'll do the douche-y thing of quoting myself in hopes that it gets addressed. Original Post this is a really stupid idea nobody will ever use
why, you ask? because that net of characters is way, way more expensive than just adding a second character + carrier |
Dean Wong
Black Serpent Technologies The Unthinkables
3
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:39:00 -
[85] - Quote
Oh great, now I have to resub my account.
You're still only getting one account resub. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2240
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:40:00 -
[86] - Quote
On the other hand, now when an alliance needs to deploy, they'll simply JF a couple thousand cruisers to a deployment system and tell the grunts to hoof it to the other side of eve in an inty. So, doesn't shake up the status quo overmuch. Just fewer carriers and dreads involved .... initially. |
Marius Noragol
Outer Void Applications Get Off My Lawn
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:42:00 -
[87] - Quote
Not sure if I like it.
Logistics would be one thing that would create a lot of content. I was picturing forming fleets to escort a convoi of freighters and other fleets jumping in to gank and kill said freighters.
Would this not mean a lot of new conflict points and everything being always at risk? Something EVE got famous for. Never being save in a happy happy hello kitty world. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
852
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:42:00 -
[88] - Quote
0/10 disappointing. jfs are cancer. |
Kire Suahien
Xercer Resources Brothers of Tangra
1
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Posted - 2014.10.09 18:42:00 -
[89] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:Easy fix: get rid of the drone bonus on the rorq. Increase to 10LY.
Because seriously, who uses it.
Hell to the no, I'm taking my battle-rorq in balls deep come patch and you're not taking my drone bonus. Just use a jump freighter christ. |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
422
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 18:43:00 -
[90] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Cool. Might also want to check this thread on reddit regarding super carrier projection with ascendancies and hyperspatial accelerators post-phoebe. Keep in mind that those super fits don't give up *too* much ehp given that you can swap the low slots back to combat fit fairly easily.
Supers are really cheap now that people are ragequitting, go nab some and get ready to have fun.
CCP has already done the calculations and it's slower to jump longer distances than use gates and the warp speed changes were included in that. |
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