Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 26 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Parallax Error
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 19:32:00 -
[601]
Seeing as HAM's have finally been brought to the fore by this change, they really ought to have their flight time increased to 5 seconds.
|
Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr The Firestorm Elite
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 19:37:00 -
[602]
Originally by: Parallax Error Seeing as HAM's have finally been brought to the fore by this change, they really ought to have their flight time increased to 5 seconds.
agree. or maybe give the ships a flight flight time bonus. i have been playing around a bit with HAMs and i like them...but they need some change. like maybe a 10km range as base? Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi". |
Siobhan Ni
Gallente Infinitus Odium The Church.
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 19:54:00 -
[603]
Glad I maxed out all my laser skills. Why not change the raven bonus while your at it... to auto cannons or something else completely random.
How about just making lasers better? If I wanted a missile boat I'd fly caldari.
|
Tamoko
Damage Unlimited Inc
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 20:00:00 -
[604]
Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw
Originally by: Parallax Error Seeing as HAM's have finally been brought to the fore by this change, they really ought to have their flight time increased to 5 seconds.
agree. or maybe give the ships a flight flight time bonus. i have been playing around a bit with HAMs and i like them...but they need some change. like maybe a 10km range as base?
I agree completely. It'd be nice to see them get an extra few seconds of flight time. Until we get that change, I'll be planning to use the long-range tech2 variants on my sacrilege. I've seen them used to create success on ganky drakes, no reason why it shouldn't work on the sac.
|
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 20:03:00 -
[605]
Originally by: Siobhan Ni Glad I maxed out all my laser skills. Why not change the raven bonus while your at it... to auto cannons or something else completely random.
How about just making lasers better? If I wanted a missile boat I'd fly caldari.
They already did. The Raven was a rail boat before they changed it.
And its not like your laser skills, would have beeen put to use on the previously absolutly ****ty Khanid ships that was previous.
FFS, they changed some previously useless ships into usefull ships. The freaking sacriledge did less laser DPS than the MALLER. The f'ing Maller, which does less DPS than all combat cruisers in the game except the stabber!
Yea, putting those laser skills to real good use.
So just shut the hell up about the laser issue, this is about changing ****ty missile/laser split weapon ships into decent missile ships.
|
Siobhan Ni
Gallente Infinitus Odium The Church.
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 20:05:00 -
[606]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Siobhan Ni Glad I maxed out all my laser skills. Why not change the raven bonus while your at it... to auto cannons or something else completely random.
How about just making lasers better? If I wanted a missile boat I'd fly caldari.
They already did. The Raven was a rail boat before they changed it.
And its not like your laser skills, would have beeen put to use on the previously absolutly ****ty Khanid ships that was previous.
FFS, they changed some previously useless ships into usefull ships. The freaking sacriledge did less laser DPS than the MALLER. The f'ing Maller, which does less DPS than all combat cruisers in the game except the stabber!
Yea, putting those laser skills to real good use.
So just shut the hell up about the laser issue, this is about changing ****ty missile/laser split weapon ships into decent missile ships.
No how about just fixing lasers? "Laser suck so use missiles" is hardly a fix for the under lying problem.
|
Rossarian
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 20:10:00 -
[607]
Originally by: Siobhan Ni Glad I maxed out all my laser skills. Why not change the raven bonus while your at it... to auto cannons or something else completely random.
How about just making lasers better? If I wanted a missile boat I'd fly caldari.
So what would be your ilks suggestion for Khanid? Make them exact copies of their Amarr counterparts? Make them impossible to use shieldtanking laserboats? Keep them in their current crappy selves with their only redeeming factor being low price?
Really if all you care about is using lasers to good effect, this changes absolutely NOTHING for you as you were not using these ships before anyway. But at least they will now be useful for people who like variety.
|
Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 20:13:00 -
[608]
You know, so many of you guys here suck. Think for a minute about how the priorities for weaponry were stacked before:
Caldari: Missiles, Railguns, Electronic Warfare, Drones Minmatar: Projectiles, Missiles, Drones, Electronic Warfare Amarr: Lasers, Drones, Electronic Warfare, Missiles Gallente: Railguns, Drones, Electronic Warfare, Missiles.
And now:
Caldari: Missiles, Railguns, Electronic Warfare, Drones Minmatar: Projectiles, Missiles, Drones, Electronic Warfare (New) Amarr: Lasers, Missiles, Drones, Electronic Warfare Gallente: Railguns, Drones, Electronic Warfare, Missiles
Does this not make perfect sense? Is this not a rather tasty "balance"?
|
Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 20:14:00 -
[609]
Originally by: Siobhan Ni No how about just fixing lasers? "Laser suck so use missiles" is hardly a fix for the under lying problem.
If you would have pulled your whiney head out of the dark place it seems to be stuck in, you just MIGHT have realized that this change has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the laser problem. It is a completely separate fix dating back from before lasers even developed their current issues.
This is NOT the promised Amarr oomph.
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Mortuus
Minmatar Viper Squad Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 20:15:00 -
[610]
Yes, lasers don't work...keep the prices down.
ex-Occassus Republica <3 |
|
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 20:24:00 -
[611]
Originally by: Cedric Diggory Edited by: Cedric Diggory on 29/07/2007 20:17:28 You know, so many of you guys here suck. Think for a minute about how the priorities for weaponry were stacked before:
Caldari: Missiles, Railguns, Electronic Warfare, Drones Minmatar: Projectiles, Missiles, Drones, Electronic Warfare Amarr: Lasers, Drones, Electronic Warfare, Missiles Gallente: Railguns, Drones, Electronic Warfare, Missiles.
And now:
Caldari: Missiles, Railguns, Electronic Warfare, Drones Minmatar: Projectiles, Missiles, Drones, Electronic Warfare (New) Amarr: Lasers, Drones, Missiles, Electronic Warfare Gallente: Railguns, Drones, Electronic Warfare, Missiles
Does this not make perfect sense? Is this not a rather tasty "balance"?
Again, stop and think. A Caldari pilot wishing to not restrict his ship choices must train Railguns and Missiles. A Minmatar pilot must train Projectiles and Missiles. A Gallente pilot must train Railguns and Drones, whereas Amarr pilots trained... Lasers.
Uhh, no. An amarr pilot not wishing to suck complete balls trained lasers and drones. Because without drones, amarr ships suck balls.
|
Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr The Firestorm Elite
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 20:31:00 -
[612]
Originally by: Rossarian
Originally by: Siobhan Ni Glad I maxed out all my laser skills. Why not change the raven bonus while your at it... to auto cannons or something else completely random.
How about just making lasers better? If I wanted a missile boat I'd fly caldari.
So what would be your ilks suggestion for Khanid? Make them exact copies of their Amarr counterparts? Make them impossible to use shieldtanking laserboats? Keep them in their current crappy selves with their only redeeming factor being low price?
Really if all you care about is using lasers to good effect, this changes absolutely NOTHING for you as you were not using these ships before anyway. But at least they will now be useful for people who like variety.
now that i think about it. shield tanking laser boats would be cool...problem is that they would need a silly amount of cap to keep it all running. i'm talking about 8000 cap on a cruisers here... Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi". |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 20:33:00 -
[613]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
BUT mostly i'm miffed that my training towards the interdictor just got a "boost" of atleast 10 extra days(to even dare it out the bay).
arent lvl1 missile op + lvl1 rockets like 10-12 minutes? ;p
Yeah, that would be like heading into a battle with t1 guns at lvl 1 skill and wondering why your dps sucks
So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have. |
Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 20:33:00 -
[614]
Quote: Still one valid "whine" or complaint is regarding the interdictor.
It is indeed. We need more interdictors. We need more destroyers too, to be honest.
|
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 20:47:00 -
[615]
Originally by: Cedric Diggory
Quote: Uhh, no. An amarr pilot not wishing to suck complete balls trained lasers and drones. Because without drones, amarr ships suck balls.
You mean like the Minmatar and Caldari pilots also trained drones so they too did not suck balls?
Like all those primary missile based minmatar ships? Oh wait, there are none... Now missiles are great for supplimentary DPS, but its not necessary.
|
Tian Jade
Amarr Cataclysm Enterprises Kraftwerk.
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 20:49:00 -
[616]
I for one welcome these changes. Missiles do not need cap for firing and so I will less vulnerable against NOS-setups and also less predictable in my damage types.
If CCP can perhaps make the Armageddon a bit easier to fit, then I will be really happy.
|
Kala Veijo
Purple Cloud
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 20:51:00 -
[617]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
BUT mostly i'm miffed that my training towards the interdictor just got a "boost" of atleast 10 extra days(to even dare it out the bay).
arent lvl1 missile op + lvl1 rockets like 10-12 minutes? ;p
Yes, but if you dont max those skills your damage will be teh suck. Not a good thing in pvp.
Warp Wind, CSM Chapter blog. |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 20:51:00 -
[618]
Edited by: Goumindong on 29/07/2007 20:52:15
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
BUT mostly i'm miffed that my training towards the interdictor just got a "boost" of atleast 10 extra days(to even dare it out the bay).
arent lvl1 missile op + lvl1 rockets like 10-12 minutes? ;p
Yeah, that would be like heading into a battle with t1 guns at lvl 1 skill and wondering why your dps sucks
The Heretic had 5 launchers and 4 turrets perviously. It had no damage bonuses.
So with the 2 extra launchers, and damage bonus you will do about the same DPS with those best named launchers and level 1 skill in both rockets and missile use as you would with turrets. Assuming max skills on the lasers of course.
At the end of the day, once you finish training up the missiles you will end up with about a 60-90% dps improvement over your previous ideal.
|
Julius Romanus
Free Space Development Cartel
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 20:56:00 -
[619]
Rockets 4, Missle op 4, rapid fire 3, arb launchers caldari navy rockets.
You wont be doing max dammage yet, but you can certainly leave your hanger.
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 21:02:00 -
[620]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 29/07/2007 21:03:57 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 29/07/2007 21:03:32 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 29/07/2007 21:03:00 Well, it's rahter pointless to argue since the counterpoint is always "It doesn't take that much time to train missiles." when my point is "I shouldn't be forced to do so when it wasn't included in my plans before/a requirement training."
Don't even want to go into the "Well all can't buy this and that and best named."
The facts are, i had plans, i now need to change them, and i need to train more now, while other races don't need to. Also now have to train stuff to fly the ships i flew before. Not to mention on learning how missiles work, how to use them etc etc.It's a timenerf.
Also would be curious on hearing what people, like the minmatar and gallente, would feel if half their t2 ships had a complete overhaul that required training to fly properly again. Or how caldari would feel if half the t2 ships had their missiles changed to turrets.
So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have. |
|
Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 21:04:00 -
[621]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
BUT mostly i'm miffed that my training towards the interdictor just got a "boost" of atleast 10 extra days(to even dare it out the bay).
Not to say you don't have a point, but heretic just got a major boost from this change, probabally making it better than the flycatcher. It is likely quite possible now (I need to check fitting) to put 6 rocket launcher II's (which, you may not have noted, are very cheap) and a bubble launcher on a heretic, with a MSE II, and lows full of overdrives. I already fit my heretic this way (except with lasers) and unrigged and somewhat low nav skills it easily breaks 4.5km/sec. Most flycatchers are already fitted in this fashion, however, if you use rocket launchers, it makes one of the ship bonuses useless. This means that the heretic is now faster and more effective with a rocket setup than a flycatcher, since all bonuses on the ship will actually apply to it's commonly used weapons. This leaves the eris as pretty much the undisputed steaming pile in the field of interdictors.
In addition, the proposed khanid changes are to the unguided variety of weapons only. This means like minmatar with guns and the controlled bursts skill, it is unnessary to train skills like guided missile precision, which have no effect on these modules. Therefore your skill training time is lower. While it sucks if you have to start from zero, as I know, this at least helps a little bit.
Oh while we're on this subject, can we get a true 4th bonus on assault frigs here - 5% armor resists per level on vengeance FTW!
Raptor and Ares Fix |
Zero Legion
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 21:05:00 -
[622]
If my Roden ships (says in description they like missles) switched to missles id prolly just not fly them, now if my Ishkur/Ishtar/Eos switched to missles id probably bust in my pants with joy. MIssleswpeing Droneboats = Win
--------------------------------------------
We are nothing, formless and void. We are a lack of all. Alone we are powerless, together we are unstoppable. WE ARE LEGION!!!! |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 21:06:00 -
[623]
Edited by: Goumindong on 29/07/2007 21:06:48
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 29/07/2007 21:03:32 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 29/07/2007 21:03:00 Well, it's rahter pointless to argue since the counterpoint is always "It doesn't take that much time to train missiles." when my point is "I shouldn't be forced to do so when it wasn't included in my plans before."
Don't even want to go into the "Well all can't buy this and that and best named."
The facts are, i had plans, i now need to change them, and i need to train more now, while other races don't need to. Also now have to train stuff to fly the ships i flew before. Not to mention on learning how missiles work, how to use them etc etc.It's a timenerf.
Also would be curious on hearing what people, like the minmatar and gallente, would feel if half their t2 ships had a complete overhaul that required training to fly properly again. Or how caldari would feel if half the t2 ships had their missiles changed to turrets.
Well for starters, half of the caldari ships use rails as a primary weapons platform, so ill bet they feel it already.
For second. With just rockets 1 or light missiles 1 you are literally doing more DPS, in a better way, at more range than you had before.
|
Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 21:07:00 -
[624]
Originally by: Goumindong
They already did. The Raven was a rail boat before they changed it.
Ahh, false. Scorpion was a railboat originally. Then again, scorp has been changed in a major way, at least 3 seperate times I can recall offhand.
Raptor and Ares Fix |
Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 21:08:00 -
[625]
Originally by: Goumindong
The Heretic had 5 launchers and 4 turrets perviously. It had no damage bonuses.
Again false. It had a EM damage bonus to missiles. I suggest doing some more factchecking.
Raptor and Ares Fix |
Julius Romanus
Free Space Development Cartel
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 21:08:00 -
[626]
I conceed your point on time. I just have a different perspective, as I started training missles from 0 last week, I'm currently 8 hours away from rockets 5. It's not a big deal to train rockets. I guess that's where we should leave it. As you said, no point in arguing perspective.
|
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 21:08:00 -
[627]
Originally by: Kai Lae
Originally by: Goumindong
They already did. The Raven was a rail boat before they changed it.
Ahh, false. Scorpion was a railboat originally. Then again, scorp has been changed in a major way, at least 3 seperate times I can recall offhand.
may bad, but it holds true enough. People whining about this change are being stupid. Its unqualifyingly good.
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 21:10:00 -
[628]
Originally by: Kai Lae *snip* vengeance FTW!
Yes, it has good points that make this bareble change. Not happy, but something that won't ruin my pleasure completely.
Originally by: Zero Legion now if my Ishkur/Ishtar/Eos switched to missles id probably bust in my pants with joy. MIssleswpeing Droneboats = Win
Bloody gallente..errm...ok, imagine you had crap lasers instead of drones an...oh forget it and go have adrink with your drone buddies
Originally by: Goumindong Well for starters, half of the caldari ships use rails as a primary weapons platform, so ill bet they feel it already.
For second. With just rockets 1 or light missiles 1 you are literally doing more DPS, in a better way, at more range than you had before.
Rockets 1 compared to fully trained t2 pulses? Seriously? I didn't know lasers were THAT bad in damage.
But even if it's true, it's still a timesink to learn a new part of the game. Timesink. Yes it has some perks to have a new thing to look at, but i was hoping i didn't have to.
So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have. |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 21:17:00 -
[629]
Its not quite.
the pulses will do about 15% more dps when fully trained compared to rockets 1. I was exaggerating.
The issue is that with 6 launchers instead of 4 turrets, and a damage bonus instead of no damage bonus the new Heretic is operating at an an effective 87.5% damage advantage.
That is equal to Pulse spec 5, Rapid Fire 5, Surgical Strike 5, Energy turrets 5.
The last one of the bunch to figure is gunnery 5.[then again, i didnt figure missile launcher OP 1 so that brings it down a bit] Factor in that rockets do about the same amount of DPS as pulses[when rockets are using tech 1 missiles and pulses are using conflag...] for base damage then you get about equal damage with just rockets 1 and missile op 1.
Start putting on faction rockets and training past level 1 and you will easily beat the pulse DPS while doing it in a better manner due to tracking etc.
Same goes for light missiles.
|
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.07.29 21:19:00 -
[630]
Originally by: Kai Lae
Originally by: Goumindong
The Heretic had 5 launchers and 4 turrets perviously. It had no damage bonuses.
Again false. It had a EM damage bonus to missiles. I suggest doing some more factchecking.
And EM bonus to missiles is not a bonus to lasers. So i dont see how that is relevent given that the person is complaining that he has to train rockets/missiles 1 to do damage. He would have had to train rockets or missiles to decent damage anyway. This just allows him to do that without splitting weapon types.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 26 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |