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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
403
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Posted - 2013.11.24 06:48:00 -
[181] - Quote
Decian Cor wrote:If you do that, doesn't that negate a carrier/super carrier's main strength? Please define: carrier/super carrier's main strength. I'd say it is its role as logistic ship.
They did that once already. They removed +1drone/level from galente drone ships(guardian-vexor is sole survivor) but introduced adv. drone interfacing skill to compensate. In this case compensation will be in form of fighter buff with drone upgrade modules (carriers are supposed to use fighters, not drones). Supercarriers are limited to fighter-bombers already. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Leigh Akiga
Trickle Down Economics
360
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Posted - 2013.11.24 06:49:00 -
[182] - Quote
So there was a big fight in ZJA tonight with 300 carriers on a station vs. 200 dreads and the node held up. The tidi was smooth and controls were responsive. The notable difference between tonight and last night was the absence of supercarriers and fighterbombers.
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Decian Cor
Disconnected. Moon Warriors
54
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Posted - 2013.11.24 06:50:00 -
[183] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Decian Cor wrote:If you do that, doesn't that negate a carrier/super carrier's main strength? Please define: carrier/super carrier's main strength. I'd say it is its role as logistic ship. They did that once already. They removed +1drone/level from galente drone ships(guardian-vexor is sole survivor) but introduced adv. drone interfacing skill to compensate. In this case compensation will be in form of fighter buff with drone upgrade modules (carriers are supposed to use fighters, not drones). Supercarriers are limited to fighter-bombers already.
Got it! Thanks for the clarification.
I'm still rather new and exploding around in cruisers as it is :) "There is no good and evil. There is only power, and those too weak to seek it."
Unfiltered for the masses. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1869
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Posted - 2013.11.24 06:51:00 -
[184] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote: (carriers are supposed to use fighters, not drones)..
Says who? Carriers have always used drones, since their creation and inception they've had drones, so I would think the people that designed them should be able to say what they're supposed to have, not your random ill informed opinion.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Supercarriers are limited to fighter-bombers already.
This is wrong, you are wrong and should feel bad, Supers can carry both figher-bombers and bombers, you literally are talking out of your ass and making yourself look stupid.
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Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
763
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Posted - 2013.11.24 06:54:00 -
[185] - Quote
Decian Cor wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Decian Cor wrote:Maybe I am just terribly naive, but couldn't this all be resolved with more/better hardware that was able to deal these kinds of fights?
I'm sure there is money for it. The best node CCP have on hands right now were described by a DEV as OC'd Xeon CPU cores. At some point, you can;t really push the clocks any higher while keeping the system stable for long enough. LN2 cooling is cool and all to set records but you can;t really run **** for full days with that. Having a server admin being paid to pour LN2 in the CPU cooler all day? Definitely gonna happen... NOT. I'm not too savvy with computers, so I figured it was worth the question. You say it is unrealistic to have it run like that for days on end...would it be possible to just have something like that kick in when major activities such as these battles happen? then it'd be a max of maybe 6 hours at a time, whenever there was a huge fight?
Think of it as having a fuel system for your car which can only feed it for like 20 mins and to do a longer run, you have to re-fill that reserve while the car is running or your engine will blow-up. You can't just stop to fill it either because something actually relies on the car being kept running.
The real solution is not in hardware but in a better game engine but asking for a better engine is really like asking to re-invent the wheel to make the engine use more core for a single system. Right now, from what I remember reading, they are trying to offload some stuff from the node to other unit so the system can have more resources dedicated to it in the form of more clock cycle not being clogged by it. There is probably some gain to be made more easily than re-doing the whole game with parallel processing. |
Anomaly One
60
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Posted - 2013.11.24 07:19:00 -
[186] - Quote
how about, get a different server/shard when big fights happen switch to that server and the resulting consequences can then be copied onto this one until they have better tech to handle this. /random useless idea #19034907
derp, seems like tidi threads are coming up each week now.. *~~*running my own mission and have some class bully run up and blow me up because they think its funny, then give the excuses that I was just firing fireworks at you*~~* |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2141
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Posted - 2013.11.24 08:59:00 -
[187] - Quote
Anomaly One wrote:how about, get a different server/shard when big fights happen switch to that server and the resulting consequences can then be copied onto this one until they have better tech to handle this. /random useless idea #19034907
That's what they have been working on for some time now, sadly 'on the fly' active node remapping (the brain in a box project) is something still a few years off.
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1867
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Posted - 2013.11.24 09:17:00 -
[188] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Tippia wrote:SoGǪ when did Dr. Eyjo G start at CCP anyway? Wow. Wow.I feel like an idiot for just now figuring out what this had to do with the thread. It has something to do with this thread...? Oh, right, now I see it. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9533
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Posted - 2013.11.24 09:18:00 -
[189] - Quote
Xolve wrote:That's what they have been working on for some time now, sadly 'on the fly' active node remapping (the brain in a box project) is something still a few years off.
I doubt it's anything but vaporware. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1867
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Posted - 2013.11.24 09:18:00 -
[190] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Looking forward to the next thread: "Regarding ZJA-6U last night". It was quickly covered here: https://twitter.com/erlendur/status/404406785354002433 Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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Rekkr Nordgard
The Ardency of Faith
206
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Posted - 2013.11.24 09:21:00 -
[191] - Quote
I tried a big TiDi nullsec fight once. Once. |
Sladislov
Broski North Black Legion.
32
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Posted - 2013.11.24 09:26:00 -
[192] - Quote
oops double post -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx |
Sladislov
Broski North Black Legion.
32
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Posted - 2013.11.24 09:27:00 -
[193] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: This is wrong, you are wrong and should feel bad, Supers can carry both figher-bombers and bombers, you literally are talking out of your ass and making yourself look stupid.
god damnit i want a supercap so bad, cant wait to launch 10 hounds and watch them torp anything i want -á-á-á-á-á-á Sladislov Director of Silly semantics -á-á-á-á-á-áBroksi Kurth -á-á xXxBlack LegionxXx |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1867
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Posted - 2013.11.24 09:31:00 -
[194] - Quote
Decian Cor wrote:Maybe I am just terribly naive, but couldn't this all be resolved with more/better hardware that was able to deal these kinds of fights? Not to our knowledge. This fleet fight was reinforced on an IBM System x3650 server with Intel "Everest" Xeon 5698 (a variant of the Westmere Xeon 5600 lineup, which has four of its six cores disabled) which runs at 4.4 GHz. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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Caydn
The Scope Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2013.11.24 10:13:00 -
[195] - Quote
Here's how to fix all of this in the first place:
Step 1, limit all corporations to maximum 50 members.
Step 2, limit all alliances to a maximum of 5x 50 member corps.
Step 3, limit fleet size to a maximum of 50 players
Step 4, during a 'fleet fight', a system is limited to no more than 6 total fleets for a reinforced node fight.
Step 5, lots of bitching and whining by 1000+ power block alliances/corporations who come on the forums ***** and whining about TiDi and and why shouldn't CCP spend 10mil USD on a Quantum Computer etc etc etc to let them have it their way.
CCP needs to take a stand on this, you want your cake and eat it too? Go play something else. Other STFU and be happy you can cram 2000+ people in a system that isn't Jita and actually do something or let CCP find a way to prevent you from ruining the server and the game for everyone else because you're a bunch of selfish twats. |
Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad Darkness of Despair
39
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Posted - 2013.11.24 10:24:00 -
[196] - Quote
So, whats regarding KW- last month? |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1128
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Posted - 2013.11.24 10:30:00 -
[197] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: Supers can carry both figher-bombers and bombers, you literally are talking out of your ass and making yourself look stupid. ok
(they can also carry shuttles btw) |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
573
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Posted - 2013.11.24 10:37:00 -
[198] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ting Mei wrote:Don't like your "For the Thousand times".
Oh, did I hurt your feelings by making you feel as if you'd said a dumb, ignorant thing that had been said on these forums by by nine hundred and ninety nine dumb, ignorant people already? Well then I apologise unreservedly for hurting your feelings by making you feel as if you'd said a dumb, ignorant thing that had been said on these forums by by nine hundred and ninety nine dumb, ignorant people already No one should have their feelings hurt just because they said a dumb, ignorant thing that had been said on these forums by by nine hundred and ninety nine dumb, ignorant people already. That was wrong of me.
No need to be so self righteous about it. At least when I flame someone it was because they deserved it. Also you're a CSM member and are supposed to represent the eve player base, even the ones that didn't vote for you. You should be setting an example instead of acting like a moron. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
8720
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Posted - 2013.11.24 10:42:00 -
[199] - Quote
Any chance of a post/blog on what you did with some nice bar graphs, pie charts and possibly a flow chart? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1163
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Posted - 2013.11.24 10:54:00 -
[200] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:baltec1 wrote:Did anyone even bother to inform CCP the fight was going to happen? Yes, the node was reinforced. Haha oh man. If that's what the node looked like when it was reinforced, then your **** is even more screwed up than I thought. This is getting to be intolerable. If you don't address it, people will start to get pissed off and leave, if they haven't already.
Goonie tears!!! Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
BTW I think they need to reinforce a node for the amount of posts you made in this thread. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
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Praetor Meles
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
157
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Posted - 2013.11.24 11:15:00 -
[201] - Quote
Step 1: Prevent all players logging in. Step 2: No server load problems at all.
Yep. Problem solved. [insert random rubbish that irritates you personally] is further evidence that Eve is dying/thriving*
* delete as required to make your point |
Pandora Barzane
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
47
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Posted - 2013.11.24 12:50:00 -
[202] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Decian Cor wrote:Maybe I am just terribly naive, but couldn't this all be resolved with more/better hardware that was able to deal these kinds of fights? Not to our knowledge. This fleet fight was reinforced on an IBM System x3650 server with Intel "Everest" Xeon 5698 (a variant of the Westmere Xeon 5600 lineup, which has four of its six cores disabled) which runs at 4.4 GHz.
but you're running it with microsoft software, so youre basicly halving your performance.
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
601
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Posted - 2013.11.24 13:10:00 -
[203] - Quote
Decian Cor wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Decian Cor wrote:Maybe I am just terribly naive, but couldn't this all be resolved with more/better hardware that was able to deal these kinds of fights?
I'm sure there is money for it. The best node CCP have on hands right now were described by a DEV as OC'd Xeon CPU cores. At some point, you can;t really push the clocks any higher while keeping the system stable for long enough. LN2 cooling is cool and all to set records but you can;t really run **** for full days with that. Having a server admin being paid to pour LN2 in the CPU cooler all day? Definitely gonna happen... NOT. I'm not too savvy with computers, so I figured it was worth the question. You say it is unrealistic to have it run like that for days on end...would it be possible to just have something like that kick in when major activities such as these battles happen? then it'd be a max of maybe 6 hours at a time, whenever there was a huge fight?
There are a couple issues.
Its not hardware. CCP has very very top shelf servers the X4000 series they use for the Jita node is up there with the best enterprise level servers on the market.
The issue is the Python, Python is single thread, and since newer server architecture uses more cores to spread a hyperthreaded application and get more done at once, this isn't possible on Eve because Python is single thread, you really can't multi-thread. The other thing would be dynamic load balancing i.e. auto reinforcement, the problem there is that in a real time (computer real time) environment that is VERY VERY difficult, my company was working on it for like 4-5 years and basically gave up, again, a single thread application real times.
Since porting Eve to a multi-threaded program would basically mean re-writing the entire game from the bottom up this is a non-trival task and would best be dubbed "Eve Onine 2" so they are working with things like brain in a box and inifiniband to try to reduce the overall load.
Still there is no simple "fix" everytime they increase cluster perfomance we just jam more people in system. |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
1867
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Posted - 2013.11.24 13:38:00 -
[204] - Quote
Pandora Barzane wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Decian Cor wrote:Maybe I am just terribly naive, but couldn't this all be resolved with more/better hardware that was able to deal these kinds of fights? Not to our knowledge. This fleet fight was reinforced on an IBM System x3650 server with Intel "Everest" Xeon 5698 (a variant of the Westmere Xeon 5600 lineup, which has four of its six cores disabled) which runs at 4.4 GHz. but you're running it with microsoft software, so youre basicly halving your performance. ... reference, please. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur |
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Sentient Blade
Walk It Off
1062
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Posted - 2013.11.24 13:48:00 -
[205] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Pandora Barzane wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Decian Cor wrote:Maybe I am just terribly naive, but couldn't this all be resolved with more/better hardware that was able to deal these kinds of fights? Not to our knowledge. This fleet fight was reinforced on an IBM System x3650 server with Intel "Everest" Xeon 5698 (a variant of the Westmere Xeon 5600 lineup, which has four of its six cores disabled) which runs at 4.4 GHz. but you're running it with microsoft software, so youre basicly halving your performance. ... reference, please.
This has probably been asked before, but have you considered using a setup using hardware virtualization? The thought being although you'd take a very slight performance hit in the abstraction, you could have some custom code hook into technology like vMotion move systems about onto your ZOMGWTF servers when things kick off?
It wouldn't have solved this particular problem. But if you hooked it all up with 10 gigabit interlinks on the back end you could quite easily move between the underlying hardware. |
Pandora Barzane
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
47
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Posted - 2013.11.24 14:01:00 -
[206] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Pandora Barzane wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Decian Cor wrote:Maybe I am just terribly naive, but couldn't this all be resolved with more/better hardware that was able to deal these kinds of fights? Not to our knowledge. This fleet fight was reinforced on an IBM System x3650 server with Intel "Everest" Xeon 5698 (a variant of the Westmere Xeon 5600 lineup, which has four of its six cores disabled) which runs at 4.4 GHz. but you're running it with microsoft software, so youre basicly halving your performance. ... reference, please.
Fast, Faster, Fastest: Linux rules supercomputing
Anonymous MSFT developer admits Linux is faster than Windows
frankly, ive done test runs on our university with a x3650, running with debian and a sql server, less then 1% load. done the same with an enterprise 2008 server, while idling its already at 30% load.
ccp, get rid of your bloatware.
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Kaivar Lancer
Metropolis Acquisition Services
356
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Posted - 2013.11.24 14:27:00 -
[207] - Quote
Stephince wrote:I agree, that was a super mature looking post from someone who is supposed to be a senior and respected member of the community. Good job of making the CSM look bad.
With CSM like this, no wonder why CCP thought it could get away with the Somer BLINK scandals. |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
412
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Posted - 2013.11.24 15:00:00 -
[208] - Quote
Onictus wrote:The issue is the Python, Python is single thread, and since newer server architecture uses more cores to spread a hyperthreaded application and get more done at once, this isn't possible on Eve because Python is single thread, you really can't multi-thread.
You are confusing multi-threading with the use of multiple processor cores. While those 2 seem similar, they are very different. In stackless python you can multi-thread just fine, in fact this is one of THE core advantages over CPython - the possibility to use lightweight threads with little overhead makes it in many cases superior compared to using traditional threading. But you are also somewhat correct in that the use of multiple processor cores within practically all python implementations is near impossible.
I recall the developers saying that much of the server load comes from calculations that are re-done again and again instead of using a cached copy, for example for character attributes, skill queue etc. I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC. -- TheGunslinger42 "**** goons, they only kill stuff that can't shoot back, they aren't killing us fast enough, they missed my ****** Ibis so they failed, CCP ban goons they shot my ship." -- Distracted |
Rainbow Dash
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
41
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Posted - 2013.11.24 15:01:00 -
[209] - Quote
Pandora Barzane wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Pandora Barzane wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Decian Cor wrote:Maybe I am just terribly naive, but couldn't this all be resolved with more/better hardware that was able to deal these kinds of fights? Not to our knowledge. This fleet fight was reinforced on an IBM System x3650 server with Intel "Everest" Xeon 5698 (a variant of the Westmere Xeon 5600 lineup, which has four of its six cores disabled) which runs at 4.4 GHz. but you're running it with microsoft software, so youre basicly halving your performance. ... reference, please. Fast, Faster, Fastest: Linux rules supercomputing Anonymous MSFT developer admits Linux is faster than Windowsfrankly, ive done test runs on our university with a x3650, running with debian and a sql server, less then 1% load. done the same with an enterprise 2008 server, while idling its already at 30% load. ccp, get rid of your bloatware.
You do realize neither of those sources back up your claim, right? |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
748
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Posted - 2013.11.24 15:31:00 -
[210] - Quote
Pandora Barzane wrote: frankly, ive done test runs on our university with a x3650, running with debian and a sql server, less then 1% load. done the same with an enterprise 2008 server, while idling its already at 30% load.
System performance test at idle isn't very useful.
If you want to prove something with any test you have to load each environment to it's maximum with a a load profile that matches your intended purpose.
Note that I'm not saying that you are wrong, I'm just stating that tests at idle doesn't provide any useful data.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
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