Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 .. 13 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
baltec1
Bat Country
6416
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:24:00 -
[181] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Andski wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:FW BUTTON ship orbiting losses where greater then Incursion ship losses last summer? Bullshite Right, incursions are super risky and dangerous, which is why everyone flies 4b faction-fit machariels to farm them endlessly They're safer than any other present PvE that even comes close to its rewards The FW button orbiting was EXTREMELY safe when it came to risk versus rewards. They were making more then double per hour than the legion Incursion fleets of old & I bet the ISK value of legions lost in NCO site's was far higher then button orbiting farmers. Wish CCP Diagoras was around to enlighten the statistics
So because a supercarrier died to anom rats we should class them as being very dangerous? |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
656
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:24:00 -
[182] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:rswfire wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:EVE grew faster when it was more dangerous. This is an honest question: Did it grow faster and sustain those numbers? I can understand that people will find the conflict of Eve interesting enough to trial/sub, but do those people stick around for very long? Obviously EVE is growing much slower now, if it's growing at all (seems to be stuck on a plat plane atm). This coincides very well with CCP's decisions in the past few years to make the game softer and easier. Privateer nerfs, CONCORD buffs, war nerfs, etc etc, all correlate with growth tapering off. While I'm not establishing a cause-effect relationship here, it does make me wonder what the driving factors behind this game's success truly are. And yes, those people stayed for quite a long time. You're talking to one such person right now.
It is an unfair comparison to say EVE is growing more slowly now than in the past, so is moving in the wrong direction.
Growth rate is (new players signing up - old players quitting)/current player base. When there were not any old players to quit and the player base was small, of course growth was higher than it is today.
Muslims use a similar argument. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the USA. Sure... it is also amongst the smallest. To get a 10% growth rate, all they need to do is attract 100K members. 100K new members is like 0.001% growth rate for Christianity. It would be impossible for Christianity to get a 10% growth rate for a couple years, because they'd run out of non-Christians in like 2 years.
The bottom line is, there are more players now then there were before. |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
631
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:26:00 -
[183] - Quote
Wardec immunity is like declaring that you only consent to winning (by earning obscene amounts of profit in market PVP at the expense of everyone else, especially new players), and will never consent to or accept losing, or doing anything that you won't win at. |
Danni stark
265
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:27:00 -
[184] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:The bottom line is, there are more players now then there were before.
there are also two servers now, unlike before. Ice Mining Skill Plan. |
rswfire
Firesworn Firesworn Nation
74
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:27:00 -
[185] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:rswfire wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:EVE grew faster when it was more dangerous. This is an honest question: Did it grow faster and sustain those numbers? I can understand that people will find the conflict of Eve interesting enough to trial/sub, but do those people stick around for very long? Player retention is an invalid argument here. We do not have those numbers, CCP does, and they do what they need to in order to optimize them.
I asked a question; I did not raise an argument. In fact, my question was in relation to an argument raised. That said, I do believe it is a valid argument here. If someone says Eve grows faster when it is more dangerous, they are essentially saying that more people are subbing and playing it (presumably people who had not been exposed to Eve previously), so the next logical question is, "Did those people stick around?" We may not have CCP's numbers, but we're a fairly educated bunch of people capable of making educated guesses. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYAz0aWEzpw http://www.firesworn.com/index.php?/topic/69-about-firesworn-nation/
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1934
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:28:00 -
[186] - Quote
Except that EVE is a global franchise, yet it still grew form a few thousand active players to a few tens of thousands. Are you telling me there's only a few million gamers in the world? Or that only a few hundred thousand people like science fiction and spaceships? Why hasn't EVE grown at ALL for the past three years, on average? I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Rena Emishi
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:28:00 -
[187] - Quote
Nice another way to make war dec's pointless. I mean wtf guys wtf |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7821
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:29:00 -
[188] - Quote
The idea that EVE needs to make substantial changes to the game that risk disillusioning their core players in order to slightly improve the chances of a minority of players continuing to give them their $15/month is shortsided if not laughable
PvP is not unique to EVE, but MMOs like EVE where nobody is truly safe are rare, especially when their player numbers are in the six digits. There are plenty of games where you can mindlessly farm gold while being untouchable, and other games deliver that mindless farming better than EVE does. You can prevent worthless carebears from quitting because they get ganked, but you can't prevent them from saying "this space crap sucks oh well back to WoW" mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
469
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:29:00 -
[189] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Andski wrote:The idea that combat in hisec should only be between consenting parties is absolute horseshit simply because the other party will stop consenting when they're losing I absolutely agree, and furthermore even think that it would never get to that stage. How many entities aside from RvB even do consenting combat?
Everyone that undocks. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1934
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:30:00 -
[190] - Quote
rswfire wrote:I asked a question; I did not raise an argument. In fact, my question was in relation to an argument raised. That said, I do believe it is a valid argument here. If someone says Eve grows faster when it is more dangerous, they are essentially saying that more people are subbing and playing it (presumably people who had not been exposed to Eve previously), so the next logical question is, "Did those people stick around?" We may not have CCP's numbers, but we're a fairly educated bunch of people capable of making educated guesses. Yes, they do, because the ones who leave will leave despite any variable amount of danger involved, as long as there is any. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
|
baltec1
Bat Country
6416
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:30:00 -
[191] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Except that EVE is a global franchise, yet it still grew form a few thousand active players to a few tens of thousands. Are you telling me there's only a few million gamers in the world? Or that only a few hundred thousand people like science fiction and spaceships? Why hasn't EVE grown at ALL for the past three years, on average?
It has. Oddly enough when CCP stopped nerfing PVP and started adding to it. |
Iudicium Vastus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:31:00 -
[192] - Quote
Rena Emishi wrote:Nice another way to make war dec's pointless. I mean wtf guys wtf
And a pvp oriented/experienced corp wardec'ing a new-player friendly indy corp isn't already pointless? |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1934
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:33:00 -
[193] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Andski wrote:The idea that combat in hisec should only be between consenting parties is absolute horseshit simply because the other party will stop consenting when they're losing I absolutely agree, and furthermore even think that it would never get to that stage. How many entities aside from RvB even do consenting combat? Everyone that undocks. Combat implies both parties taking offensive actions. Ganking is pvp, but it's not combat. Let's not confuse the two. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
631
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:33:00 -
[194] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:
And a pvp oriented/experienced corp wardec'ing a new-player friendly indy corp isn't already pointless?
Why would you wardec a corp full of new players? They have no isk you can take from them.
Wardec a group full of old bitter veterans, there are plenty of those. |
rswfire
Firesworn Firesworn Nation
74
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:35:00 -
[195] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Yes, they do, because the ones who leave will leave despite any variable amount of danger involved, as long as there is any.
I agree with that. I don't agree with everything you say, but I don't have to, which is why you'll see me liking your comments while opposing others, haha. I was genuinely curious to hear others thoughts on the point you raised. I just feel that you can't say something is growing unless it also retains that growth. Simple logic, that's all. (And not implying you would think otherwise.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYAz0aWEzpw http://www.firesworn.com/index.php?/topic/69-about-firesworn-nation/
|
Ryu Ibarazaki
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
64
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:36:00 -
[196] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Wardec immunity is like declaring that you only consent to winning (by earning obscene amounts of profit in market PVP at the expense of everyone else, especially new players), and will never consent to or accept losing, or doing anything that you won't win at.
I was just thinking the same thing; in this environment a new EVE industrialist can still be shut down. But an older player with multiple accounts and a network of alt-corps will be next to impossible to seriously impact.
|
baltec1
Bat Country
6416
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:37:00 -
[197] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:Rena Emishi wrote:Nice another way to make war dec's pointless. I mean wtf guys wtf And a pvp oriented/experienced corp wardec'ing a new-player friendly indy corp isn't already pointless?
Hence why all but a tiny fraction dont. |
Iudicium Vastus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:37:00 -
[198] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Iudicium Vastus wrote:
And a pvp oriented/experienced corp wardec'ing a new-player friendly indy corp isn't already pointless?
Why would you wardec a corp full of new players? They have no isk you can take from them. Wardec a group full of old bitter veterans, there are plenty of those.
Happens more than you think. They're not after the isk. Why Hisec wars are most often a case of risk-averse (Carebearing it up) pvp'ers wanting some barges to pewpew safely. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1937
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:40:00 -
[199] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:EI Digin wrote:Iudicium Vastus wrote:
And a pvp oriented/experienced corp wardec'ing a new-player friendly indy corp isn't already pointless?
Why would you wardec a corp full of new players? They have no isk you can take from them. Wardec a group full of old bitter veterans, there are plenty of those. Happens more than you think. They're not after the isk. Why Hisec wars are most often a case of risk-averse (Carebearing it up) pvp'ers wanting some barges to pewpew safely. Not really, no. But it seems to be this one great myth that carebears believe in order to justify their viewpoints. High-sec pvpers like kills, but kills are not meaningful if the target either doesn't put up some resistance, or at least drops expensive modules to profit from.
Most of us don't war for the easy kills, and the ones who do are new and quickly grow out of that phase. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
baltec1
Bat Country
6416
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:41:00 -
[200] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:
Happens more than you think. They're not after the isk. Why Hisec wars are most often a case of risk-averse (Carebearing it up) pvp'ers wanting some barges to pewpew safely.
Its far cheaper, easier and effective to just gank them. Hell you even make a profit most of the time.
War decs are useless for this activity. |
|
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
634
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:44:00 -
[201] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:
Happens more than you think. They're not after the isk. Why Hisec wars are most often a case of risk-averse (Carebearing it up) pvp'ers wanting some barges to pewpew safely.
All of the veterans out there who can afford to lose a few ships or hire mercenaries are not wardeccable and will never be wardeccable in the first place. People who enjoy the highsec PVP lifestyle are forced to scavenge whatever's left, which are the new and terminally dumb.
There will never be a decent highsec pvp food chain as long as the plankton get to decide that they're (relatively) invincible.
|
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
208
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:49:00 -
[202] - Quote
There is no point in moaning about corp-hopping and immunity in wardecs. People would just drop into NPC corps or not undock at all if they couldn't do it anymore (Which would be ok for me personally, but hardly an improvement of the whole "war" situation)
They need incentives to build something for their corporation/alliance that they care about and don't want to lose, if only for all the ISK/time they spent building it. Nullsec, Lowsec, WHs have this to some extent, but highsec is sorely missing it (given that even POSs can be saved in time)
We need:
1) Either a reduction of the 24h timer on war declaration or an increase of the time it takes to deassemble a POS directly after a war declaration so that every highsec POS is at risk
2) Highsec POCOs !
Both focus more or less on industrial corporations, but for pure mining/missionrunning corps things get difficult. Sizable corp refinery structures (with public access features) and subsequent lowering of refining rates in NPCs stations might be interesting. Or special NPC-agent corporation to player corporation contracts that run for several weeks with sizable payments at the end (e.g missionrunning corp xy is contracted by Caldari Navy to fly 3 lvl 4 mission in the Forge everyday for 2 weeks for juicy bonus LP after completion and succesive contracts with even better terms)
Or whatever...the point is: To make wardecs matter in highsec, there needs to be something can be burnt down |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1939
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:51:00 -
[203] - Quote
Sheynan wrote:There is no point in moaning about corp-hopping and immunity in wardecs. People would just drop into NPC corps or not undock at all if they couldn't do it anymore (Which would be ok for me personally, but hardly an improvement of the whole "war" situation) At least there's the increased tax in NPC corps so the bears have to pay something extra relative to normal players for the increased safety. Now even that is going to be entirely irrelevant. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
634
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:54:00 -
[204] - Quote
Did I mention that new players have a very very difficult time finding a decent community to play with in the first place because there are very few of them in highsec that are worth joining? Peer pressure is really the best way to get people to subscribe to the game, didn't you learn anything from high school?
Joining a social group in highsec is frowned upon because there are very few benefits that a highsec-only corp can provide you. There's no reason for people to work together.
I find it really odd that the area of the game that has the most players in it has the least amount of organization. There are thousands of corps that can work independently or maybe together in alliances or coalitions, why aren't there any that can do much of anything in highsec? |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1817
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:55:00 -
[205] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Sheynan wrote:There is no point in moaning about corp-hopping and immunity in wardecs. People would just drop into NPC corps or not undock at all if they couldn't do it anymore (Which would be ok for me personally, but hardly an improvement of the whole "war" situation) At least there's the increased tax in NPC corps so the bears have to pay something extra relative to normal players for the increased safety. Now even that is going to be entirely irrelevant.
Only increased cost for "some" of them, not all. The haulers and miners and traders don't pay anything extra, the mission/incursion runners and explorers do. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1941
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:57:00 -
[206] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:I find it really odd that the area of the game that has the most players in it has the least amount of organization. There are thousands of corps that can work independently or maybe together in alliances or coalitions, why aren't there any that can do much of anything in highsec? Because of their passive, cowardly attitudes. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
523
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:00:00 -
[207] - Quote
Andski wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Maybe EVE was originally about being a cold, harsh place where you were constantly in danger, and the weak dropped the game. It is not that any more. It is now a game designed to support many play styles, and all kinds of players. Right. EVE must accommodate you and your desire to not face any risk, not face any consequences for bad choices and not have to put any thought into your gameplay. Otherwise you will quit and the eve community will lose a valuable member
EVE is still cold and dark, its just Cold and Dark in select locations (low sec and Low Sec)
High sec is happy happy fun time Null sec is a joke with 15 year old kids running things
Worm Hole and Low sec is where the brutality is "The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
208
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:03:00 -
[208] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:EI Digin wrote:I find it really odd that the area of the game that has the most players in it has the least amount of organization. There are thousands of corps that can work independently or maybe together in alliances or coalitions, why aren't there any that can do much of anything in highsec? Because of their passive, cowardly attitudes.
Or because they don't gain anything from it that is worth the time they spend organising themselves. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
656
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:04:00 -
[209] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:Andski wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Maybe EVE was originally about being a cold, harsh place where you were constantly in danger, and the weak dropped the game. It is not that any more. It is now a game designed to support many play styles, and all kinds of players. Right. EVE must accommodate you and your desire to not face any risk, not face any consequences for bad choices and not have to put any thought into your gameplay. Otherwise you will quit and the eve community will lose a valuable member EVE is still cold and dark, its just Cold and Dark in select locations (low sec and Low Sec) High sec is happy happy fun time Null sec is a joke with 15 year old kids running things Worm Hole and Low sec is where the brutality is
Trammel killed Ultima Online, CCP will ever make the some mistake. R Tape loading error |
Sentamon
930
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:04:00 -
[210] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Wardecs should follow players until the war ends.
I got a better one. Starting a war should allow anyone to wardec you (the aggressor) for free. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 .. 13 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |