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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1929
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:42:00 -
[121] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Being able to turn pvp off at will isn't "sandbox." Wait, what?! I can turn off suicide gank? Nope. That's why it's "sandbox." I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
1021
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:42:00 -
[122] - Quote
Andski wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:You can't accommodate those who want a kill everyone, antisocial, not enough creation game and those who want a fun game where cooperation is the one & only thing and other choices have no place in the same server. You want easy kills fed to you on a silver platter so you don't have to think.
please stop trying to turn the tables around when you're the one who has cried nonstop about your easy-mode risk-free 150m/hour+LP vanguard farming being nerfed lmao
The tables were easily turned when he Goons got dogpiled too & screamed An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7820
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:43:00 -
[123] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:A slaughter house where people get sick of dying so quickly when first learning isn't a sandbox either when the blood makes mud untenable for a newbie to do anything but sink after taking a single step
You're not a newbie and you've thrown tantrums, threatened to unsub and pounded your fist on the table whenever anything has threatened your ability to mindlessly farm massive amounts of ISK in hisec, which as you say, is supposed to be "safe" so that newbies (i.e. not you) can learn the game mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
floating in space
University of Caille Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:43:00 -
[124] - Quote
I heard about a CEO who would assign roles to all new members in order to basically keep them prisoner.
They would drop roles, usually log off . Then if they came back on within 24 hours he would publicly shame them into staying with the corp. Then slap new roles on them as soon as he could. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7820
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:43:00 -
[125] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:The tables were easily turned into the FW LP free for all they deserve to be turned here too because they can and should
There's literally more risk in mindlessly farming FW LP in a cloaky frigate than there is in incursions mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Mara Villoso
Big Box
76
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:44:00 -
[126] - Quote
Andski wrote:Zephyrial wrote:An apparently novel idea would be to war dec someone that will fight back? Then the war dec is not 'pointless', only the war decs against non-PvP industrial corps?
Maybe I misunderstand it, but the whine here is that you cannot dec and painlessly gank players that decide they don't want to be ganked? If the possibility of being shot at is too much for you, you're playing the wrong game, period. If hisec pvp'ers believe in getting shot at, why are they in hisec? Hisec pvp'ers (with some exceptions) are essentially making the argument that their victims should be able to be targeted while simultaneously choosing to limit the number of people who can shoot them. They choose their target and in so doing they choose who can target them. And they never target anyone who can actually fight back effectively. If these people are truly interested in fighting, why aren't they putting themselves at real risk?
There are actually 3 separate levels to the discussion going on here: the conceptual, the actual, and the meta. Conceptually, wardecs make sense-- hisec entities can fight over resources while limiting their exposure to attacks from anyone but their chosen target. Actually, they are pointless, because the individuals can exit the situation whenever they want. In the meta, we're having a discussion about non-consensual pvp and who should be subject to it and under what conditions. I don't have any problem with people being subject to non-consensual pvp, but I do have a problem with attackers subjecting other people to non-consensual pvp while shielding themselves from it. That's why I have no problem with suicide ganking. Those people know exactly what's going to happen when they pull the trigger and they have no problem with that. They know they'll generate kill rights and low sec status and they accept that risk too. It's a proper balance.
Maybe what we should ask first is, what is hisec for? What does hisec mean? Why is it there at all? If all it means is a 30 minute delay before someone can start shooting you (as suggested in this thread), what is its point? |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7820
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:44:00 -
[127] - Quote
floating in space wrote:I heard about a CEO who would assign roles to all new members in order to basically keep them prisoner.
They would drop roles, usually log off . Then if they came back on within 24 hours he would publicly shame them into staying with the corp. Then slap new roles on them as soon as he could.
That is bullshit because once you drop roles you can no longer be assigned any mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
653
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:44:00 -
[128] - Quote
Andski wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:My choice to play the way I want to play? Yeah.. I get to make that choice, and you do NOT get to force me to stop playing the way I want to play.
Deal with it. Nobody's stopping you from playing the way you want to play, you just had to make slight adjustments like everyone else in the game, princess. Watching local for wartargets for a while until your roles drop is just too much of a burden I guess :(
Princess? Ad hominem attack, is proof you have lost the argument.
Watching local? Sure, that is all you have to do in high sec, when you are at war.... No one would EVER use an out of corp alt to bump your ship so you can't get out of a belt, while they bring the war dec corp ship in from a couple jumps away to kill you.
Paaaahhhhhlease.
You war dec.
I have some choices. 1) give you you what you want. Easy kills against an unskilled PvPer. I NEVER, EVER, EVER choose this option. 2) Not undock for the duration 3) Drop corp.
Either way, 2 or 3 means you are not guaranteed a chance to blow up my ships.
When you war dec, you are not buying targets. You are buying the remote possibility that someone might choose option 1. |
baltec1
Bat Country
6413
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:44:00 -
[129] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Being able to turn pvp off at will isn't "sandbox." Wait, what?! I can turn off suicide gank?
You are more likely to be involved in a road traffic accident than ganked. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7820
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:45:00 -
[130] - Quote
More lies, they can be wardecced all the same. mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
1021
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:46:00 -
[131] - Quote
Andski wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:The tables were easily turned into the FW LP free for all they deserve to be turned here too because they can and should There's literally more risk in mindlessly farming FW LP in a cloaky frigate than there is in incursions
Malarky CCP Soundwave even dismissed that BS last year during the summer CSM notes. You think the button orbiting ship losses come close to the losses from HI SEC incursion boats An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7820
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:46:00 -
[132] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:1) give you you what you want. Easy kills against an unskilled PvPer. I NEVER, EVER, EVER choose this option.
If they're so unskilled why aren't you killing them off mercilessly mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7820
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:48:00 -
[133] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Malarky CCP Soundwave even dismissed that BS last year during the summer CSM notes. You think the button orbiting ship losses come close to the losses from HI SEC incursion boats
The fact that a few players are so awful that they die to glorified belt rats (which are softened for the hisec players since they don't camp the gates and they don't scram) doesn't make incursions risky, or they made awful decisions in who to pick to fly logistics, doesn't make incursions risky. Try again mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
1021
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:48:00 -
[134] - Quote
Andski wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:The tables were easily turned into the FW LP free for all they deserve to be turned here too because they can and should There's literally more risk in mindlessly farming FW LP in a cloaky frigate than there is in incursions
What abou all the risk in exploighting the system to create FW LP almost out of thin air by market manipulation? I recall Goons crying & screaming when that exploight was shut down & ill gotten gains taken. The risk wasn't a ban... some1 got a PLEX instead An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
baltec1
Bat Country
6413
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:49:00 -
[135] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Andski wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:The tables were easily turned into the FW LP free for all they deserve to be turned here too because they can and should There's literally more risk in mindlessly farming FW LP in a cloaky frigate than there is in incursions Malarky CCP Soundwave even dismissed that BS last year during the summer CSM notes. You think the button orbiting ship losses come close to the losses from HI SEC incursion boats
It will be far higher.
High sec incursions are as risky as levels 4s at this point. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7820
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:50:00 -
[136] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:What abou all the risk in exploighting the system to create FW LP almost out of thin air buy market manipulation? I recall Goons crying & screaming when that exploight was shut down & ill gotten gains taken.
You mean the time that the speculators lost hundreds of billions of ISK that they initially set aside, from their own fortunes? Right, that didn't carry any risk at all! mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
rswfire
Firesworn Firesworn Nation
74
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:51:00 -
[137] - Quote
So much crying in this topic. I thought only carebears did that...?
I welcome this change. Eve has taught me patience in ways I never thought possible for me, but if they want to implement the means to reduce or eliminate cooldown periods, I'll gladly embrace them. We currently don't give roles to most members because of this game mechanic. I don't want to lock an awoxer into our alliance for 24 hours, so I'll wait and see how they work out, and they'll have to be more patient than myself it they want to succeed at their goal. Same for infiltrators.
There are some people who have made intelligent comments in this thread on both sides. I'll summarize:
- People who don't want to fight you simply will not fight you. Just accept it already. - If you want to fight, go look for a "good fight." Note I didn't say "fair fight." Isn't that more enjoyable anyway? - Wardecs are rarely used for any meaningful reason except to cause "tears" and "grief." - Wardecs still serve a useful purpose against foes who have things they want to defend, so this change will not affect that. - I imagine our divine overlords like money, so they are going to accommodate an environment that does its best to balance the needs of both. Accept this. - There are many ways to play this game. There are many styles of play. The second "E" in "Eve" is not capitalized. - Eve is ten years old. Like all good things, it has evolved with time. Evolve or stagnant. Those are your choices. - Eve is still a "cold, harsh place." But that doesn't seem to really interest a lot of you; you'd rather attack carebears than anyone who can fight back efficiently. - The above doesn't apply to everyone, obviously, but certainly to many of those posting here. - Too many times I've seen alliances refuse to fight each other. Mercs will dramatically increase the cost of a contract for any corp/alliance that looks like it will be a tough fight. They do this because they know it won't be easy. - I don't know if that extends to others, but my guess is it does. Why do you want soft targets so much? You call carebears risk-averse, but isn't only attacking carebears risk-averse on your part?
So, yeah. Continue this never-ending debate while CCP continues to make the changes it feels are best for the game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYAz0aWEzpw http://www.firesworn.com/index.php?/topic/69-about-firesworn-nation/
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
655
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:52:00 -
[138] - Quote
Mara Villoso wrote: Maybe what we should ask first is, what is hisec for? What does hisec mean? Why is it there at all? If all it means is a 30 minute delay before someone can start shooting you (as suggested in this thread), what is its point?
Agreed. This is the KEY point of this topic.
It is my opinion that high sec exists as a mechanism for CCP to attract people of various play styles to the game. The game mechanics have been created that allow me to play the way I want to play, mostly avoiding ship-to-ship PvP, if I so desire. I see the existence of high sec, NPC corps, CONCORD, etc. as proof that CCP wants to accommodate many different play styles.
This is reinforced to me by statements at fanfest and other locations, where they say they consider solo and casual play style to be perfectly legitimate, and in their eyes, just as valid as hard core ship-to-ship PvP play style.
If you are one of those players that thinks EVE is a a cold, harsh place, super dangerous, and only accommodates hard core ship-to-ship PvP play style, then why do you think high sec exists? |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
1021
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:52:00 -
[139] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Andski wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:The tables were easily turned into the FW LP free for all they deserve to be turned here too because they can and should There's literally more risk in mindlessly farming FW LP in a cloaky frigate than there is in incursions Malarky CCP Soundwave even dismissed that BS last year during the summer CSM notes. You think the button orbiting ship losses come close to the losses from HI SEC incursion boats It will be far higher. High sec incursions are as risky as levels 4s at this point.
BUTTON ship orbiting losses where greater then Incursion ship losses last summer? Bullshite An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1929
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:52:00 -
[140] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Andski wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:The tables were easily turned into the FW LP free for all they deserve to be turned here too because they can and should There's literally more risk in mindlessly farming FW LP in a cloaky frigate than there is in incursions What abou all the risk in exploighting the system to create FW LP almost out of thin air by market manipulation? I recall Goons crying & screaming when that exploight was shut down & ill gotten gains taken. The risk wasn't a ban... some1 got a PLEX instead That was literally five people. When we only have five people complaining about losing ships during wars, give us a call. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
655
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:53:00 -
[141] - Quote
Andski wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:1) give you you what you want. Easy kills against an unskilled PvPer. I NEVER, EVER, EVER choose this option. If they're so unskilled why aren't you killing them off mercilessly
I'm the unskilled PvPer that you want to kill.... DUH. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7820
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:54:00 -
[142] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:FW BUTTON ship orbiting losses where greater then Incursion ship losses last summer? Bullshite
Right, incursions are super risky and dangerous, which is why everyone flies 4b faction-fit machariels to farm them endlessly
They're safer than any other present PvE that even comes close to its rewards mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1930
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:55:00 -
[143] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Mara Villoso wrote: Maybe what we should ask first is, what is hisec for? What does hisec mean? Why is it there at all? If all it means is a 30 minute delay before someone can start shooting you (as suggested in this thread), what is its point?
Agreed. This is the KEY point of this topic. It is my opinion that high sec exists as a mechanism for CCP to attract people of various play styles to the game. The game mechanics have been created that allow me to play the way I want to play, mostly avoiding ship-to-ship PvP, if I so desire. I see the existence of high sec, NPC corps, CONCORD, etc. as proof that CCP wants to accommodate many different play styles. This is reinforced to me by statements at fanfest and other locations, where they say they consider solo and casual play style to be perfectly legitimate, and in their eyes, just as valid as hard core ship-to-ship PvP play style. If you are one of those players that thinks EVE is a a cold, harsh place, super dangerous, and only accommodates hard core ship-to-ship PvP play style, then why do you think high sec exists? We'll agree to removing pvp from high-sec when you agree to removing all ISK-making ability from same. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
1021
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:57:00 -
[144] - Quote
Andski wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:What abou all the risk in exploighting the system to create FW LP almost out of thin air buy market manipulation? I recall Goons crying & screaming when that exploight was shut down & ill gotten gains taken. You mean the time that the speculators lost hundreds of billions of ISK that they initially set aside, from their own fortunes? Right, that didn't carry any risk at all!
Are you telling my Mynna's alot lost 100's of billions in ISK before market manipulation made it look that way? Or are you talking about the maiterials that were refunded back? Sure you got those numbers straight kiddo? An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
baltec1
Bat Country
6413
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:57:00 -
[145] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:
FW BUTTON ship orbiting losses where greater then Incursion ship losses last summer? Bullshite
Smartbombing battleships on lowsec gates alone would have taken out a far higher number than incursions have. Incusions are NPCs and its in high sec, its literally just an advanced mission that requires a gang. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
655
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:58:00 -
[146] - Quote
rswfire wrote: The second "E" in "Eve" is not capitalized.
Correct. All 3 letters in EVE are capitalized.
I'm not sure what Eve is. A character I guess? A corp name?
However, when typing PvP, PvE and EVE so many times, and they are so similar, many people typo and accidentally put EvE, instead of EVE.
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
1021
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 21:59:00 -
[147] - Quote
Andski wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:FW BUTTON ship orbiting losses where greater then Incursion ship losses last summer? Bullshite Right, incursions are super risky and dangerous, which is why everyone flies 4b faction-fit machariels to farm them endlessly They're safer than any other present PvE that even comes close to its rewards
And there never are 4 billion ISK Incursion MACs that die? BS there is risk in sites & more risk then getting ganked flying from incursion to incursion. An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7820
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:00:00 -
[148] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Are you telling my Mynna's alot lost 100's of billions in ISK before market manipulation made it look that way? Or are you talking about the maiterials that were refunded back? Sure you got those numbers straight kiddo?
They were not given back what they invested into the scheme, they were given back some unrelated miscellany that was mistakenly taken away. mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Julius Priscus
105
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:01:00 -
[149] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Mara Villoso wrote: Maybe what we should ask first is, what is hisec for? What does hisec mean? Why is it there at all? If all it means is a 30 minute delay before someone can start shooting you (as suggested in this thread), what is its point?
Agreed. This is the KEY point of this topic. It is my opinion that high sec exists as a mechanism for CCP to attract people of various play styles to the game. The game mechanics have been created that allow me to play the way I want to play, mostly avoiding ship-to-ship PvP, if I so desire. I see the existence of high sec, NPC corps, CONCORD, etc. as proof that CCP wants to accommodate many different play styles. This is reinforced to me by statements at fanfest and other locations, where they say they consider solo and casual play style to be perfectly legitimate, and in their eyes, just as valid as hard core ship-to-ship PvP play style. If you are one of those players that thinks EVE is a a cold, harsh place, super dangerous, and only accommodates hard core ship-to-ship PvP play style, then why do you think high sec exists? We'll agree to removing pvp from high-sec when you agree to removing all ISK-making ability from same.
is there still a 24 hour timer for war decs?
if so CCP should remove them so war decs are instant, for the next expansion to offset the insta leaving corps in EVE.. -»\_(pâä)_/-»-á Sup cracka ! |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
655
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:01:00 -
[150] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: We'll agree to removing pvp from high-sec when you agree to removing all ISK-making ability from same.
1) Who said anything about removing all PvP from high sec? If two groups want to fight in high sec, have at it boys.
2) As for removing all ISK making potential from high sec... well... first you'd have to get CCP to agree to a massive revenue cut that would likely put them out of business. Good luck with that proposal. |
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