Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2010.04.28 21:56:00 -
[1]
Yeah, that's right. I said it.
It works in w-space, it'll work in 0.0 just fine. I hear HTFU all the time from everyone else about every other issue in Eve. It's time the 0.0/lowsec peeps put their ISK where their mouths are and HTFU themselves.
The advent of our little PL friends and their effective if exploitive local work around to kill Russian macro ratters and ISK sellers clearly demonstrates how a little lack of local intel can rectify some glaring game play issues.
I think that putting local into delayed mode will also help with 0.0 fleet battles and increase the relevance and importance of skilled scouts. Additionally, reduced local intel will allow smaller guerilla groups to effectively harass and fight larger fleets as they'll be able to hide from larger forces while they attempt to distract and evade the main fighting forces of their enemy.
The advantages of this change are numerous, the drawbacks few. Most will argue that it's 'impossible' to deal with the lack of local and 'spamming my scanner' all the time is horrible. To this end I point these detractors to w-space where *competent* pilots thrive in a very hostile and competitive environment. It's clear that anyone who would be against the change to delayed mode for 0.0/lowsec is simply too lazy, too incompetent or just plain soft in the head to survive in such and environment, in which case they don't deserve to fly in 0.0/lowsec anyway.
Once people adapt you'll find that fleet fights still happen, small gang PVP will thrive and those who operate with teamwork will be dramatically more effective than those without.
Let the whines of "OMG, IT'S TOO HARD" begin... -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
How2FoldSoup
No Child Left Behind
|
Posted - 2010.04.28 22:00:00 -
[2]
First
Great idea and i completely agree. It'll be about time too..
|
Bellum Eternus
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2010.04.28 22:02:00 -
[3]
Supporting my own topic. -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Elridon
Hull Tanking Elitists
|
Posted - 2010.04.28 22:47:00 -
[4]
Supporting this, wanting this, etc. I doubt it'll actually happen though.
|
Brengholl
|
Posted - 2010.04.28 23:20:00 -
[5]
as i understand it: mashing directional for intel has 2 results and one conclusion 1. strain on the server because of the way directional scaner is coded 2. strain on your hands and mouse -> CCP does not want that kind of gameplay
ccp does not want to remove local before a beter intel tool than directional is invented and implemented
... this is my understanding of the whole problem... wich has also been posted a LOT of times before
i do support the whole idea (again) BUT solutions to problems 1 and 2 need to be found
|
Deja Thoris
Invicta. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2010.04.28 23:26:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Deja Thoris on 28/04/2010 23:26:12 I don't support this. In its current incarnation eve isnt reaady for it.
It works in wormholes since there are limited and hard to find entries and exits.
With a proposal like this with eve in its current form it would just be local full of cloaky ***gots screaming "boom headshot!!!" every time someone enters local because the game offers no intel tools other than a half baked directional scanner.
Edit: Where the heck is the thumb down!?
|
Jerid Verges
Gallente The Society of Innovation The Last Stand
|
Posted - 2010.04.28 23:28:00 -
[7]
Does not support delayed Lowsec delayed local just so pirates can get easier kills.
|
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2010.04.28 23:32:00 -
[8]
I support it, but we all know that some kind of improvement to the scanning system has to happen before local chat is dropped. CCP has stated something along those lines in the past.
The most basic thing that has to happen is automatic Scanner updates - similar to current Overview model. Perhaps even integration of 15 AU Scanner data into Overview
Because otherwise, all the competitive people would have to spam the Scan button every second. CCP doesn't want that, and players definitely would not be happy about having to do that.
|
Grarr Dexx
GK inc. Panda Team
|
Posted - 2010.04.28 23:51:00 -
[9]
Supported. ___
|
MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.04.28 23:58:00 -
[10]
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 28/04/2010 23:57:53
Originally by: Deja Thoris With a proposal like this with eve in its current form it would just be local full of cloaky ***gots screaming "boom headshot!!!" every time someone enters local because the game offers no intel tools other than a half baked directional scanner.
This.
Find a way to balance it so it doesn't lean so much in favor of the predator and you have my support. Otherwise, no.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
|
FunzzeR
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 00:01:00 -
[11]
Best "boost low sec" idea I have heard in a while.. And unlike the other ideas, its been proven to be good in wormhole space.
Support PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!!
THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!! |
Lysander Kaldenn
Dead Reckoning.
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 01:37:00 -
[12]
Full support here.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 01:45:00 -
[13]
I am in favor of delayed local as well, but I hope that such a change also comes with a change to D-scanning mechanics because having to scan every 2 seconds see the gank coming is a real pain in the arse.
Let's face another issue as well, in regards to the recent controversy: see thread in General regarding someone managing to keep from being visible in local, and allegedly (innocent until proven guilty) using the supposed exploit to hunt botters.
In as much as Local is a good tool for both offense and defense, and removal of it would affect both sides equally, one of the ways that bots work via their scripting routines is to monitor local and then go to SS. Removal of local would be a dent in bots on the level of Unholy Rage, and I think most players support that.
But the D-scanner mechanics, while no problem for a bot program, is worse than water torture on a real player.
It should be noted that I spend a lot of time in WH space and 0.0 in an exploration fit ship, and I have now, as if last week, managed to keep it in one piece for an entire year, not counting the first 2 months of its life when I used it in FW. I can use the D-Scanner well enough to stay off the list of the soft-headed and lazy, but it feels as dumb as marching in place while singing and inserting your friends names in the lyrics.
The ability to detect scans and radar signals is 1970s technology. I know, I used to work on those systems in fighter jets. It's a bit odd that, 23000 years into the future, a ship can't pick up on some signals, even low noise in passive detection systems, when being scanned down. Unfortunately, such a system, whatever it's report medium, will get piped right into the latest bot script and the ISK sellers will be back in business (and back off the menu).
Hopefully this will get resolved somehow.
|
adriaans
Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 04:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ephemeron I support it, but we all know that some kind of improvement to the scanning system has to happen before local chat is dropped. CCP has stated something along those lines in the past.
The most basic thing that has to happen is automatic Scanner updates - similar to current Overview model. Perhaps even integration of 15 AU Scanner data into Overview
Because otherwise, all the competitive people would have to spam the Scan button every second. CCP doesn't want that, and players definitely would not be happy about having to do that.
I like the 15 au overview scanner part, and supported, at least for 0.0 to begin with and would not mind it in low-sec either with say such an overview/scanner change. --signature-- Support the Field Command ship boost: Here |
Bunyip
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 04:15:00 -
[15]
While I can't agree to the outright removal of local in 0.0 and/or low-sec, I think you may be on to one point. The following is my idea for local in low-sec and 0.0.
In low-sec: Concord doesn't have much presence here, so have the factions control the local chat. The catch is that they're not going to give this permission out for free.
Local would be in delayed mode until a person paid a given amount at a station or a new 'agent in space' to use the comms system. Once that price was paid, the user would be able to get local until he logged out or left the system. The price wouldn't have to be high (maybe something like 10k or so).
To compensate for this, make all PvP within 250 km of stations and warpgates prohibited. Warp bubbles might be incorporated for use in low-sec to allow for new hunting techniques (the prey could simply warp to a nearby planet then towards the next gate, but that planet might be patrolled too). This idea (minus the warp bubbles) could be transferred to high-sec as well.
Advantages: * Station games will be a thing of the past. After all, why would a station allow such combat where people could get injured on the station from stray shots? * Another ISK sink to replace the ones being lost by PI. * Possession of a system means a lot more, where control of incoming and outgoing ships would be more than just gatecamps. * More prey in low-sec, since the entry will be far easier. * More access to choice toys in low-sec, given the new trade hubs possible.
Disadvantages: * New mechanics would have to be introduced to allow for this. * Tactics would be thrown into a blender, making pirates actually think for their kills rather than just smartbombing everybody who comes into a system.
In null-sec: The sovereign power in the system would get a new "Communications Relay Tower" for Ihubs that would give their pilots local. Whether this could be transferred due to standings or not remains at the discretion of the developers. Everybody else (macroers included) would have to run cautiously.
Advantages: * Intel now becomes much easier for the sovereign power. * Intervening space would be more likely to be sovereign, given the lack of intel in nearby non-sovereign systems. * Macroers would have a lot more difficulty operating in 0.0, especially if it's held by another alliance. * Cloak ships could be more of an asset for small-gang PvP, allowing groups to attack by surprise, even if not the sovereign power.
Disadvantages: * Expense for alliances to set up the Comms tower by their Ihubs. * Redesign of mechanics necessary to put this into place, including standings-based local if implemented.
I feel that this will work a lot better than the additional server queries that constant d-scans would create with the OP's idea. Any constructive criticism is welcomed.
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
Scerolikk Teromni
B'haxed Productions DEFI4NT
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 04:17:00 -
[16]
This thread again?
|
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 04:43:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bunyip Edited by: Bunyip on 29/04/2010 04:24:03 While I can't agree to the outright removal of local in 0.0 and/or low-sec, I think you may be on to one point. My idea for new local systems is available here.
I feel that this will work a lot better than the additional server queries that constant d-scans would create with the OP's idea. Any constructive criticism is welcomed.
From Bunyips "idea" thread:
Quote: To compensate for this, make all PvP within 250 km of stations and warpgates prohibited. Warp bubbles might be incorporated for use in low-sec to allow for new hunting techniques (the prey could simply warp to a nearby planet then towards the next gate, but that planet might be patrolled too). This idea (minus the warp bubbles) could be transferred to high-sec as well.
Worst ideas ever. -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War Monks of War.
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 04:58:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 29/04/2010 04:58:34 Yeap ---[center] Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 05:06:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer I am in favor of delayed local as well, but I hope that such a change also comes with a change to D-scanning mechanics because having to scan every 2 seconds see the gank coming is a real pain in the arse.
Let's face another issue as well, in regards to the recent controversy: see thread in General regarding someone managing to keep from being visible in local, and allegedly (innocent until proven guilty) using the supposed exploit to hunt botters.
In as much as Local is a good tool for both offense and defense, and removal of it would affect both sides equally, one of the ways that bots work via their scripting routines is to monitor local and then go to SS. Removal of local would be a dent in bots on the level of Unholy Rage, and I think most players support that.
But the D-scanner mechanics, while no problem for a bot program, is worse than water torture on a real player.
It should be noted that I spend a lot of time in WH space and 0.0 in an exploration fit ship, and I have now, as if last week, managed to keep it in one piece for an entire year, not counting the first 2 months of its life when I used it in FW. I can use the D-Scanner well enough to stay off the list of the soft-headed and lazy, but it feels as dumb as marching in place while singing and inserting your friends names in the lyrics.
The ability to detect scans and radar signals is 1970s technology. I know, I used to work on those systems in fighter jets. It's a bit odd that, 23000 years into the future, a ship can't pick up on some signals, even low noise in passive detection systems, when being scanned down. Unfortunately, such a system, whatever it's report medium, will get piped right into the latest bot script and the ISK sellers will be back in business (and back off the menu).
Hopefully this will get resolved somehow.
I'd like to see the scanning system completely redone as well, but I don't think it's critical to have that in place before local is put into delayed mode.
How about you and I discuss a revamp of the entire scanning concept elsewhere in another thread? I think we need to throw out everything we know about Eve's current setup for scanning and come up with something that would be the most interesting game play wise and then back off from that if we need to due to implementation limits. -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Anna Lifera
Gallente Imperial Legion of Amarr
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 05:25:00 -
[20]
the only thing a delayed local will give to small gangs is the headstart to ambush solo/defenseless pilots at the belts. u can't hit and run on any gang and kill anything quickly enough except at a gate and even then, they'll still see u gate jump in so there's no surprise at all. it's just another "i want easier ganks because my killboard isn't perfect enough" thread. not supported. --- LOLOLOL If anything, lvl4s require LESS effort then Mining!... At least in mining you have to check every 4 minutes to move the ore to the can. You're an idiot. - Jerid Verges |
|
Goumindong
SniggWaffe
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 05:47:00 -
[21]
Quote: It works in w-space, it'll work in 0.0 just fine.
W-space is not analogous to 0.0 --
Did you get that thing i sent you? |
Pheusia
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 06:19:00 -
[22]
Put some thought in to improving the scanner and JUST DO IT. Signed, Pheusia |
Furb Killer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 06:20:00 -
[23]
Quote: I'd like to see the scanning system completely redone as well, but I don't think it's critical to have that in place before local is put into delayed mode.
Wut? Serious?
Removing local is the same as forcing people to smash a button every 10 seconds, that is just terrible game design. The only effect this would have is that indeed all ratters in 0.0 are macros, since everyone else already moved to lvl 4 missions in high sec. If your goal is to empty low sec and 0.0 even more, then sure go ahead.
I actually agree local shouldnt be an intel channel. But such changes would break way more than they would fix. Before you do it you first need a good scanner that doesnt make you want to commit ritual japanese suicide, and the pve content needs to be fixed, so you actually got a fighting chance against the roamers. (Sleeper ai that switches agro for example).
|
foksieloy
Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 07:13:00 -
[24]
No support. _______________________ We come for our people! |
Zilberfrid
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 07:30:00 -
[25]
Maybe for 0.0, not for lowsec.
Until lowsec leaves the proposal I won't support.
|
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 09:27:00 -
[26]
I support having CCP review the local mechanic but not the change listed in the OP. Any removal of local would need to be coupled with a new mechanic like a super directional scanner or whatnot. I've actually tried to gather intelligence without local and it is insanely hard, to the point where it is such a pain as to make the game unfun. Also I would want some more nerfs put on the non-covert cloaks if local is removed. There will be too many fleets hiding with cloaks without local.
Originally by: Jim Raynor EVE needs danger, EVE needs risks, EVE needs combat, even piracy, without these things, the game stagnates to a trivial game centering around bloating your wallet with no purpose. |
darius mclever
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 09:46:00 -
[27]
(I dont know where i saw this, so if someone finds the link please add it)
How about this: you jump into a system and wont be shown in local for the say first 30-60seconds. when the time is over, you will be shown in local. All people already in local before you get shown normally after you jump in.
|
MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 10:55:00 -
[28]
Originally by: darius mclever (I dont know where i saw this, so if someone finds the link please add it)
How about this: you jump into a system and wont be shown in local for the say first 30-60seconds. when the time is over, you will be shown in local. All people already in local before you get shown normally after you jump in.
I can see how this helps pirates and opportunistic PVPers, but how does it help everyone else?
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Bevil Smyth
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 11:18:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Bevil Smyth on 29/04/2010 11:20:48
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I'd like to see the [directional] scanning system completely redone as well
All in all whatever ideas get put around, the current state of things is ridiculous, a chat channel user list being the best intel gathering tool in a space game? its just stupid, and fills ur screen with yet another window that shouldnt be there, and ruins the immersion.
Things have to change, and have been glossed over for years. ============================ 2003 and still alive! |
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 13:06:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ephemeron I support it, but we all know that some kind of improvement to the scanning system has to happen before local chat is dropped. CCP has stated something along those lines in the past.
The most basic thing that has to happen is automatic Scanner updates - similar to current Overview model. Perhaps even integration of 15 AU Scanner data into Overview
Because otherwise, all the competitive people would have to spam the Scan button every second. CCP doesn't want that, and players definitely would not be happy about having to do that.
Yep. Supporting on principle - scanner needs some work as part of the plan.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |