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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1355
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Posted - 2012.05.27 12:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
The reception of the Unified Inventory seems to be somewhat less than perfect as some of the functionality is not in the state as it should be. We are listening carefully to your good and welcome feedback and treat it serious.
Without further ado, let me present a Sunday devblog by CCP Soundwave about the first round of Unified Inventory improvements, read all about these changes here.
Please use this thread for feedback, thank you. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Alec Freeman
The Dark Space Initiative
92
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Posted - 2012.05.27 12:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
the blog link is blank FYI.
And please just gives us an option to disable the new inventory system all together and roll with the old one. Dont fix what isnt broken.
Or should i say dont break what has worked fine for 9 years. |
DJWiggles
Eve Radio Corporation
14
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Posted - 2012.05.27 12:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
winsauce \o/ Live on Eve Radio Wednesdays 19:00 GMT with me blabbering on about Eve and stuff |
DJWiggles
Eve Radio Corporation
14
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Posted - 2012.05.27 12:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alec Freeman wrote:the blog link is blank FYI.
And please just gives us an option to disable the new inventory system all together and roll with the old one. Dont fix what isnt broken.
Or should i say dont break what has worked fine for 9 years.
as usual you need to wait a few seconds for it to populate Live on Eve Radio Wednesdays 19:00 GMT with me blabbering on about Eve and stuff |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1355
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Posted - 2012.05.27 12:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alec Freeman wrote:the blog link is blank FYI
That is most likely a caching issue and should be automatically resolved in a few minutes latest.
CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2387
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 12:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:The reception of the Unified Inventory seems to be somewhat less than perfect as some of the functionality is not in the state as it should be. We are listening carefully to your good and welcome feedback and treat it serious. Without further ado, let me present a Sunday devblog by CCP Soundwave about the first round of Unified Inventory improvements, read all about these changes here. Please use this thread for feedback, thank you.
That's a diplomatic way of putting it.
Nice to see you treating it seriously and taking fast action to rectify the imperfections. |
Sh'nara
Woof Club
4
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Posted - 2012.05.27 12:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Keep up the good work CCP.
A couple years ago it was unheard of for you to get fixes out this quickly.
How quickly people forget. |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1183
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Posted - 2012.05.27 12:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:CCP Phantom wrote:The reception of the Unified Inventory seems to be somewhat less than perfect as some of the functionality is not in the state as it should be. We are listening carefully to your good and welcome feedback and treat it serious. Without further ado, let me present a Sunday devblog by CCP Soundwave about the first round of Unified Inventory improvements, read all about these changes here. Please use this thread for feedback, thank you. That's a diplomatic way of putting it. Nice to see you treating it seriously and taking fast action to rectify the imperfections.
Yep, absolutely. Getting this into a state where you guys like it is the first priority right now. |
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Sakari Orisi
The Dark Space Initiative
19
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Posted - 2012.05.27 12:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alec Freeman wrote:the blog link is blank FYI.
And please just gives us an option to disable the new inventory system all together and roll with the old one. Dont fix what isnt broken.
Or should i say dont break what has worked fine for 9 years.
Whiner :D
I personally think the state of the unified inventory will be very acceptable after these changes (up from barely usable). Keep working on it CCP and it'll be perfect soon! |
TheButcherPete
Specter Syndicate Persona Non Gratis
203
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Posted - 2012.05.27 12:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
+1 to the changes, now my only gripe is the Carrier interface for drone/fuel/corphangar My moncole doubles as a cigarette lighter, a flashlight, a laser and x-ray goggles. If you haven't noticed yet, I'm in love with Punkturis. -á-á-á
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1183
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Posted - 2012.05.27 12:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
TheButcherPete wrote:+1 to the changes, now my only gripe is the Carrier interface for drone/fuel/corphangar
Yep, we'll get those sorted too. |
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Sarmatiko
723
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Posted - 2012.05.27 12:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Quote:Looting: Cargo containers and wrecks will function the same. Having multiple wrecks or containers open should be easy to loot as you can just click GÇ£loot allGÇ¥ and it will automatically go to the next item on the list instead of your ships cargohold. There is an added performance increase as well. Great. Now, can we have shortcut for "Open Container"? It's been 1.5 years since new shortcuts were introduced.. |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
110
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Posted - 2012.05.27 12:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
If you only had listened to the people using it on the test server to begin with... ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o )
The world would be a better place if boobies ran the world instead of boobs. |
witchking42
UNFRL Fleet Operations CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
17
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Posted - 2012.05.27 12:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Looks like where moving in the right direction. |
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
72
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Posted - 2012.05.27 12:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Before inferno, I would dock and my ship hangar, items, and corp hangar would all be open because that's how I left them. I could see everything I owned and interact with it instantly.
That was really nice. I think it's something we should have again. |
Rendiff
Flashpoint Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
0
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Posted - 2012.05.27 12:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm very pleased to know you guys are working on fixing the usability issues. I personally haven't had a lot problems with the new system other then getting used to no having to open 10 windows at a time.
You guys are going great work! You'll have me as a player for as long as the game lives! |
Jed Clampett
The Order Of Viision
0
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Posted - 2012.05.27 12:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Newly broken?
If you make and fill a series of jetcans -- the successive jetcans will not open with direct clicks on selected item open cargo button or jetcan. You must navigate the tree. Worse jetcans are slow to populate and Unified Inventory may require open and close.
Note I was settting timestamp names on can as they were created. But opening the can immediately after was not successful immediately and later caused mining barge windows to change as well. The idea is to to continual drag ore from cargo to new jetcans -- not setup two inventory windows cargo and jetcan after great delay with each new jetcan.
Very annoying if you are busy doing anything besides navigate Inventory.
Please restore |
Pirmasis Sparagas
Final Fortress Happy Tree Fiends
15
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Posted - 2012.05.27 12:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
Who wants multiple windows? |
PryMary
Brutor Tribe
11
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Posted - 2012.05.27 13:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:If you only had listened to the people using it on the test server to begin with...
^---- THIS ----^
What is the point of a test server if to not use feedback from the community that uses it to tell you what needs fixing.... Perhaps a better and more in-depth means of using the test server is required rather than just going on there to "shoot stuff". Let's be serious here after all it's in the name.... |
vanillacherry
golden blueberry
4
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Posted - 2012.05.27 13:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Can you make shift-clicking something open up in window that doesn't have the tree on it so I don't need to shift-click my cargo icon twice to just have my cargo open up where I want it and then close the main window? |
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Rodnik Riasson
The Eden Trading International Corporation Curatores Veritatis Alliance
6
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Posted - 2012.05.27 13:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
I stil want a multiple windows by default option, or open new windows if i open a container from everywhere except the main inventory window. |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
281
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Do we need to copy over all the feed back over to this thread ?
Corp hangers need to be able to open in its own window with only corp hangers in the tree view. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
646
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Something I noticed the other day that would be a lot better :
The icons for corporation hangars is a "container" icon, just like all container icons. They really should have a unique icon, since they aren't "containers", they're hangars.
Just something to look at amidst everything.
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Tek Handle
Biotronics Inc. The Initiative.
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
I know the inventory is inspired by the Windows Explorer, but it's missing a back button immensely!! |
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
43
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Posted - 2012.05.27 13:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:As mentioned previously, we are not at all happy with the state of the unified inventory. To everyone that is currently struggling with it, you have my apologies.
Then WHY in the name of all that is good did you ignore ALL of the bad feedback telling you it was not ready from nearly every user on SiSi and go ahead and put it on TQ???
Just tell us this. Please.
And..
CCP Soundwave wrote: Yep, absolutely. Getting this into a state where you guys like it is the first priority right now.
Why wasn't this your 'first priority' before while it was on SiSi? http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1185
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Posted - 2012.05.27 13:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:Something I noticed the other day that would be a lot better :
The icons for corporation hangars is a "container" icon, just like all container icons. They really should have a unique icon, since they aren't "containers", they're hangars.
Just something to look at amidst everything.
Ah yeah, that's a good point. It would make it a lot less confusing. |
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Kody Grey
Banana Pants Incorporated
1
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Posted - 2012.05.27 13:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
You guys at CCP just don't get it do you. You took a system, replaced it with something less functional for pretty much every player in Eve, and now have to make improvement on it.
How many resources are being wasted on this effort? Could those resources have gone to something else which needed real "improving"? Nobody should be happy that we have to live with the new system while fixes are slowly rolled out over weeks. Revert back, to what worked fine in the first place, then right click on your new inventory system and click 'trash'. |
Lord Loco
LOCO TRUST
23
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Posted - 2012.05.27 13:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
dont polish a turd, give us back the old one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
282
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Bloodpetal wrote:Something I noticed the other day that would be a lot better :
The icons for corporation hangars is a "container" icon, just like all container icons. They really should have a unique icon, since they aren't "containers", they're hangars.
Just something to look at amidst everything.
Ah yeah, that's a good point. It would make it a lot less confusing. As long as you can pull it out in a seperate window by its self easily with all the old fuctionality. Adding Corpmates hangers grayed out if you cannot access them is a good thing and adds fuctionality but if they are grayed out everyone should not be able to look at them either. |
Peter Drakon
Independent Traders and Builders MPA
5
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Posted - 2012.05.27 13:24:00 -
[30] - Quote
Not sure You read the other thread, so I just quote my self.
@Soundwave: the index (tree) panel width is % based, thus when you resize the inventory the index panel width changes too. Maybe it's just me, but I set it to a specific size, so I can read everything I want to. When I resize the inventory I'd like the tree to remain the same width I have set it before. |
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Sugar Kyle
The humbleless Crew Capital Punishment.
20
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Posted - 2012.05.27 13:26:00 -
[31] - Quote
Thank you for making a Dev Blog about it. It helps a lot.
May I have a bigger, central, 3Dish loot all button! I got cans to empty, ships to salvage, and wrecks to loot before my fleet members... |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1185
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:28:00 -
[32] - Quote
Peter Drakon wrote:Not sure You read the other thread, so I just quote my self.
@Soundwave: the index (tree) panel width is % based, thus when you resize the inventory the index panel width changes too. Maybe it's just me, but I set it to a specific size, so I can read everything I want to. When I resize the inventory I'd like the tree to remain the same width I have set it before.
Thanks! |
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Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
282
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
How hard with this new system would it be to have hold icons/ UI set up icons show up on the left side of the HUD. Added fuctionality for the win Also smaller icons view would be great to now that you have added more space around the simple window |
LoRDa RaMOs
Heimr Fatal Ascension
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tek Handle wrote: I know the inventory is inspired by the Windows Explorer, but it's missing a back button immensely!!
I just want to bump this magnificent detail. +1 |
Aaarrrggh
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:29:00 -
[35] - Quote
Hi,
I know CCP is trying hard to improve the game for everyone for which they should be applauded. However I don't think they are getting the message on this one. A lot of people (myself included) REALLY liked the old inventory system and don't want it changed. Can we at least have an option to use the old system still.
I have left it a while before posting anything as I wanted to give the new system a fair trial but having done that I really can find a single aspect of the new system I preferred to the old system. Sorry guys but that's the way I find it. I doubt you will ever be able to improve the unified inventory to make it as useable as the old system. I think your wasting precious developement time on this. You would be better served doing another project.
I like to have separate ships/items folders. I like the containers to open in new windows when you double click them (and remember their last position) I dislike the extra space taken up by the top / bottom and side of the new system windows for info I'm not interested in If I need to find something I've lost I just use the assets window - its still quicker than the unified inventory
I have lots and lots of items in my inventory (perhaps thousands I'm not really sure) and I'm really struggling with this
Please give us the old system back and add the new system as an option - or vice versa
|
Jed Clampett
The Order Of Viision
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:29:00 -
[36] - Quote
vanillacherry wrote:Can you make shift-clicking something open up in window that doesn't have the tree on it so I don't need to shift-click my cargo icon twice to just have my cargo open up where I want it and then close the main window?
And how about using the pin mechanism or something to say "don't mess with this window -- no updating which container it points to"
If pinned (or whatever) additional click on UI items should be forced to open a new window or find a UI window that is not pinned down. |
Joe Skellington
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
63
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
Thanks bro, it was kind of strange... but I'm glad it's getting fixed. -á-á |\__/|-á -á/ @ @ \ -á-á -á( > -¦ < )-á -á`-+-+x-½-½-¦ -á-á / O \ |
ISquishWorms
117
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:36:00 -
[38] - Quote
Too little too late. You should have listened to those unpaid beta testers that put in the effort and time to test on SiSi. |
Sunrise Omega
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
So are these changes going to be on Sisi first?
If I'm opening a container in space, I do not want a tree viewed of every single container within a few light years. All I want, when I click to open that container in space is a simple window that lets me click "Loot All" and then the container window goes away because the container has vanished.
If I open up a 2nd container, I want it to appear in the exact same place as the first floating container's window did. Only at that point should you consider adding that container to the tree view if I have multiple loot cans open. And frankly, I'd prefer that they just stack in a tabbed fashion like they used to.
At no point should the tree view contain floating containers that I have not specifically told it to open yet. There should definitely be a setting at the bottom of the tree view that controls how "grabby" that window is about opening up new locations. Give us at least (4) options there - (a) never open without explicit action (b) only open if within range (c) only show if within 15km (d) list everything within a few light years.
I don't want to see anything else in that window either. Stop trying to reuse existing inventory windows for things which are not alike. A floating cargo container is not the same thing as my ship's cargo. A POS lab / array / battery is not in the same category of things as my ship's cargo - I don't want them in the same window.
When I click ALT-C to open up my current ship's cargo (or if I double-click in the background of the hangar view), the only things that should be in that tree view are things directly related to my current ship - such as cargo hold, drone bay, fuel bay, corp hangars, ship bay, quafe bay.
When I click ALT-G, the only thing that should show up in the window / tree should be things related to my personal hangar. Not corp hangars, or active ships, or member hangars, or the deliveries hangar.
When I click ALT-N, the only thing that should show up in that window/tree is my ships. Sorted by type, then name, with the current ship at the top of the list. And don't just use the same generic ship icon for every single ship in that tree, it's useless at helping us to figure out which ship is which.
Bring back the Corporate Hangar button. It should open up a window that contains *just* the corp hangars in the station. Add another button for Member Hangars. Bring back the Market Deliveries button and have it open up a simple window with no tree that just displays whatever is within the Market Deliveries hangar.
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Mr PrimaX
Black Flag Operations The Kadeshi
0
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Posted - 2012.05.27 13:38:00 -
[40] - Quote
Good changes/fixes +1
I guess we get members hangars in alphabetical order in the patch after this one ? |
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Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
282
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
Sunrise Omega wrote:So are these changes going to be on Sisi first?
If I'm opening a container in space, I do not want a tree viewed of every single container within a few light years. All I want, when I click to open that container in space is a simple window that lets me click "Loot All" and then the container window goes away because the container has vanished.
If I open up a 2nd container, I want it to appear in the exact same place as the first floating container's window did. Only at that point should you consider adding that container to the tree view if I have multiple loot cans open. And frankly, I'd prefer that they just stack in a tabbed fashion like they used to.
At no point should the tree view contain floating containers that I have not specifically told it to open yet. There should definitely be a setting at the bottom of the tree view that controls how "grabby" that window is about opening up new locations. Give us at least (4) options there - (a) never open without explicit action (b) only open if within range (c) only show if within 15km (d) list everything within a few light years.
I don't want to see anything else in that window either. Stop trying to reuse existing inventory windows for things which are not alike. A floating cargo container is not the same thing as my ship's cargo. A POS lab / array / battery is not in the same category of things as my ship's cargo - I don't want them in the same window.
When I click ALT-C to open up my current ship's cargo (or if I double-click in the background of the hangar view), the only things that should be in that tree view are things directly related to my current ship - such as cargo hold, drone bay, fuel bay, corp hangars, ship bay, quafe bay.
When I click ALT-G, the only thing that should show up in the window / tree should be things related to my personal hangar. Not corp hangars, or active ships, or member hangars, or the deliveries hangar.
When I click ALT-N, the only thing that should show up in that window/tree is my ships. Sorted by type, then name, with the current ship at the top of the list. And don't just use the same generic ship icon for every single ship in that tree, it's useless at helping us to figure out which ship is which.
Bring back the Corporate Hangar button. It should open up a window that contains *just* the corp hangars in the station. Add another button for Member Hangars. Bring back the Market Deliveries button and have it open up a simple window with no tree that just displays whatever is within the Market Deliveries hangar.
Most of the Tuesday stuff is on Sisi already. Thou its not a TQ build yet. |
Sunrise Omega
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:39:00 -
[42] - Quote
Peter Drakon wrote:Not sure You read the other thread, so I just quote my self.
@Soundwave: the index (tree) panel width is % based, thus when you resize the inventory the index panel width changes too. Maybe it's just me, but I set it to a specific size, so I can read everything I want to. When I resize the inventory I'd like the tree to remain the same width I have set it before.
The tree panel needs to be changed to "pop-out" of the left side of the current inventory window. The area of the window which displays hangar/container contents should not change width just because you've chosen to display / hide the tree.
|
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
57
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Posted - 2012.05.27 13:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
Do active ships without drone bays need to have a drone bay in the inventory tree? Fear God and Thread Nought |
Arco Arachni
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.05.27 13:44:00 -
[44] - Quote
Any chance to find different types of starbase structures in there own sub tree, so I can collaps all non-wanted?
Any chance to get a expand / collaps all button?
Any chance to make the system remember the last chosen corporate hangar division while clikcing through different pos structures? eg arrays, labs, hangars, etc.
Any chance of additional sort orders than by player chosen names? eg structure type
Any chance of getting free hand sortable (drag and drop) tree?
That's it for all. Thx for answering! |
Natalie Cerulean
Ixion Defence Systems Tactical Narcotics Team
40
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Posted - 2012.05.27 13:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
I'm hoping the next patch ninja fixes the chat bugs. To blazes with the inventory -_- |
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC Vanguard.
16
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Posted - 2012.05.27 13:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:CCP Phantom wrote:The reception of the Unified Inventory seems to be somewhat less than perfect as some of the functionality is not in the state as it should be. We are listening carefully to your good and welcome feedback and treat it serious. Without further ado, let me present a Sunday devblog by CCP Soundwave about the first round of Unified Inventory improvements, read all about these changes here. Please use this thread for feedback, thank you. That's a diplomatic way of putting it. Nice to see you treating it seriously and taking fast action to rectify the imperfections. Yep, absolutely. Getting this into a state where you guys like it is the first priority right now.
One wonders why this was implemented as such in the first place. I can't imagine anyone in their right mind who would push this half done...(can't say it politely)...
Is there some internal CCP memorandum that you have to push out patches at a certain rate? If so you need to toss that memo out with the TPS reports because you are destroying your customer base with these ill conceived up(down)grades. I would rather wait awhile for the programming to be thoroughly tested and worked over on the test server and then advertised heavily on how the new UI changes will work and how to replicate the previous functionality and that needs to be the starting point for any and all UI changes. |
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC Vanguard.
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:49:00 -
[47] - Quote
Rodnik Riasson wrote:I stil want a multiple windows by default option, or open new windows if i open a container from everywhere except the main inventory window.
Seconded |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
497
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:49:00 -
[48] - Quote
Good to read you're on an ongoing quest to fix it until it's umm, fixed!
Any performance boost when opening the inventory in stations, or is that part of the described looting performance?
At the moment I dock and then it's waiting & waiting & waiting & waiting & waiting & waiting & hey! it's loaded. Too bad I need to be in the corp hangar so it's waiting & waiting & waiting & waiting....
Who needs television when you have EVE? EVE drama, best drama. |
Skelf Scunner
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2012.05.27 13:50:00 -
[49] - Quote
"WeGÇÖll do whatever we can to rectify it. We're going to continue to take your valuable feedback and add it to the list of changes we want to make."
You are not listening, and you are not taking the obvious action to rectify the situation
Fix it on sisi.
Put the old, working system back on tranquility.
Will you listen to this feedback? |
Arec Bardwin
Perkone Caldari State
528
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:50:00 -
[50] - Quote
Why wasn't this done on the test server?
On another note; 'directory' tree in the left pane can get really cluttered when working with a lot of objects. Why not give the option to add configurable tabs in the right pane?
Click on active ship and default to cargo hold with drone bay and various hangars as tabs, maybe select cargo containers in cargo hold (configurable ofc)
Same goes for handling a hangar with a lot of containers, corp hangars, pos handling etc.
This would provide easy access to important objects without having to browse the left tree.
An option to add double panes (total commander style) would be helpful as well. |
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Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
1970
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:53:00 -
[51] - Quote
I appreciate the greatly increased communications on this issue. It is good to see CCP keeping the players up to date with what they are working on. CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
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Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC Vanguard.
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:55:00 -
[52] - Quote
Panhead4411 wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:As mentioned previously, we are not at all happy with the state of the unified inventory. To everyone that is currently struggling with it, you have my apologies. Then WHY in the name of all that is good did you ignore ALL of the bad feedback telling you it was not ready from nearly every user on SiSi and go ahead and put it on TQ??? Just tell us this. Please. And.. CCP Soundwave wrote: Yep, absolutely. Getting this into a state where you guys like it is the first priority right now.
Why wasn't this your 'first priority' before while it was on SiSi?
Yes, I would an answer to this as well |
Arec Bardwin
Perkone Caldari State
528
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
Panhead4411 wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:As mentioned previously, we are not at all happy with the state of the unified inventory. To everyone that is currently struggling with it, you have my apologies. Then WHY in the name of all that is good did you ignore ALL of the bad feedback telling you it was not ready from nearly every user on SiSi and go ahead and put it on TQ??? Just tell us this. Please. And.. CCP Soundwave wrote: Yep, absolutely. Getting this into a state where you guys like it is the first priority right now.
Why wasn't this your 'first priority' before while it was on SiSi? Just forget it and let us (and them) focus on getting this steaming pile of horse manure fixed, and just hope that CCP learned something about the purpose of the TEST SERVER
|
Dennie Fleetfoot
EVE University Ivy League
130
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:59:00 -
[54] - Quote
Rightio.
CCP is being honest finally. This whole thing has been a disaster of almost Incarna levels of incompetency.
Everything, EVERYTHING, problematic of Unifubared Inventory was told to you guys on these very forums FOUR weeks ago. And EVERYTHING we told you that was wrong was totally ignored or dismissed as ramblings of people who didn't know what we were talking about. I mean we only play the game constantly so what the hell would we know after all.
Frankly, someone needs to get their arse kicked from Hilmars office and land on it at Harpa!!
It was never, at any time ready for TQ. It wasn't even fit for purpose on Sisi. Who in Reykjavik thought it was?!!
Someone actually thought that this was better? They've no business working for you to be honest. But that's by the by.
It is encouraging that your making an amends at least and your listening finally.
You code it, we'll critique it, you listen and act upon it and together we'll make it worthy of the otherwise awesome Inferno.
Deal?
|
Ishanmae
Binding Energy
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:01:00 -
[55] - Quote
Nice changes, I like it!
Also... thanks guys for being working and monitoring the threads on a Sunday! |
Delhaven
Crunchy Crunchy Peregrine Nation
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:05:00 -
[56] - Quote
Krystyn wrote:Rodnik Riasson wrote:I stil want a multiple windows by default option, or open new windows if i open a container from everywhere except the main inventory window. Seconded
Or at least give an option in the settings to "Double-click opens items in a new window." If I want to see something new in the same window using the tree, I want to single-click. If I want to open it in a new window, I want to double click. And this goes for opening the cargoholds on ships. When I double-click a ship, I want the cargo. If I want to activate it, I want to drag and drop.
And please explain why when every single one of the points that needs to be 'fixed' was already identified in the feedback from the test servers, it was completely ignored. The people on the test servers (and I'm not one of them) are there because they want to help you folks make a better product. Ignoring them is a waste of their time, and is downright disrespectful. Plus, it makes yourselves look bad, and downright arrogant, for releasing something that the community has already identified as hugely flawed. |
Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry Devil Divided By Zero
33
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:05:00 -
[57] - Quote
Great changes. The new Inventory system now looks like it really can be more useful than the old one. A few more iterations and it will be worthy of EVE Online. CCP Ytterbium: Yarrblblbgrlblbgrlblblblbblbgrlblblbgrblblyarrrrdrooooooolonthekeyboardlikealunatic |
Mashie Saldana
Veto. Veto Corp
525
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
When will the members hangars be sorted alphabetically again? Dominique Vasilkovsky Mashie Saldana Monica Foulkes |
galrizian
TROTTERS INDEPENDENT TRADER'S
33
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:07:00 -
[59] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:The reception of the Unified Inventory seems to be somewhat less than perfect as some of the functionality is not in the state as it should be. We are listening carefully to your good and welcome feedback and treat it serious. Without further ado, let me present a Sunday devblog by Lead Game Designer CCP Soundwave about the first round of Unified Inventory improvements, read all about these changes here. Please use this thread for feedback, thank you.
we dont realy want to read about changes .................we just want the old way back...........................im gunna log of coz the lag is pissin me right off
CHANGE IT BACK..........the new UI is fail.... it dosnt work .....its usless and it makes life hard ffs |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
693
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:08:00 -
[60] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:If you only had listened to the people using it on the test server to begin with...
This.
Rodnik Riasson wrote:I stil want a multiple windows by default option, or open new windows if i open a container from everywhere except the main inventory window.
And this too.
EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
|
Maratega
FREE GATES HUN Reloaded
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:08:00 -
[61] - Quote
If you want some extra love from players, pls upgrade Divide Stack window!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1254669 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=702774
When you split stack, with drag and set the quantity in the window: quantity: type in example "100" - extra field, "Stack number" default is "1". example: "5" this make 5 x 100 stack, from a larger amount of materials.
-divide stack by x option this make x stack with euqal amount ("If you have 100, and you select Divide Stack, and enter 3, you will get 33/33/32.")
-select more kind of materials, then divide stack from all example: you got 6 diff mats with large stock, you need 1500 size stack from the all 6 mats, and this multiplied by 15..
Industrialist, logistics, pos feeding, planetary feeding, miner ops, corp items distribution, etc. would be much easier with this. Now need hundreds of clicks to do this works, its really hurt.
Sorry for repeating, but it seems you dont listen... |
Lord Loco
LOCO TRUST
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:09:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ishanmae wrote:Nice changes, I like it!
Also... thanks guys for being working and monitoring the threads on a Sunday!
Agree,
but they are still not doing was the most of us want: A option to work with the inventory like the old one.
And they ar still not answering why they ignored the feedbck from sisi
|
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
43
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:09:00 -
[63] - Quote
Skelf Scunner wrote: "WeGÇÖll do whatever we can to rectify it. We're going to continue to take your valuable feedback and add it to the list of changes we want to make."
You are not listening, and you are not taking the obvious action to rectify the situation
Fix it on sisi.
Put the old, working system back on tranquility.
Will you listen to this feedback?
^This. Period.
Fastest way to return everything to 'working as intended'...how is it that hard to understand?
Once it passes the test on the TEST SERVER...then bring it back to SiSi.
I'm not saying get rid of it forever (though thats not a bad idea tbh), but get it working before it comes back to TQ http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
Che Legio
New Republic Initiative Mercenaries
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:11:00 -
[64] - Quote
If you really want to "fix" this - give us the option to use it like the old inventory !
E.g. open it like it was last closed, e.g. ship and items separate at station, closed tree if closed last time i closed the window (esp. for cargo in space).
Or just make it like with this "usable" captains quarters and implement a option to deactivate it so we can just play the game without getting upset every time we have to use the inventory or want to switch a ship.
|
Dennie Fleetfoot
EVE University Ivy League
131
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:11:00 -
[65] - Quote
Ishanmae wrote:Nice changes, I like it!
Also... thanks guys for being working and monitoring the threads on a Sunday!
Yes, considering its a public holiday weekend in Iceland, I think I can for say for all off us that it's appreciated. Kudos. |
|
CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1188
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:17:00 -
[66] - Quote
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:Ishanmae wrote:Nice changes, I like it!
Also... thanks guys for being working and monitoring the threads on a Sunday! Yes, considering its a public holiday weekend in Iceland, I think I can for say for all off us that it's appreciated. Kudos.
Monday is a red day too, that's why the fix is going out Tuesday and not Monday. I'll be here though, doing a few posts and taking notes :) |
|
cuculet
Bearing Srl.
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:18:00 -
[67] - Quote
Two step wrote: Uh, wtf do you want us to say here? The new inventory system has some really sucky parts and some pretty nice parts. From what I have seen on the forums, you guys are doing a pretty good job of bitching to CCP all on your own. CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter
3 days latter :
Two step wrote: I appreciate the greatly increased communications on this issue. It is good to see CCP keeping the players up to date with what they are working on.
i'll really appreciate if you take all that political bul***t and go you your corner again; you didn't give a **** about this issue for days, and now you are coming here to play the concerned player representative...
Anyway, back to the topic, how about you CCP, build a new ui with the new code that will look and act like the old inventory system? cose if you don't i can see trouble on the horizon Also you should clear the problem regarding the "ignored feedback" from test server previous to this change going live; you may choose to ignore it, ofc, but if you do that, well it will only prove you learned nothing from the "incarna faill" |
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
45
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:19:00 -
[68] - Quote
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:Ishanmae wrote:Nice changes, I like it!
Also... thanks guys for being working and monitoring the threads on a Sunday! Yes, considering its a public holiday weekend in Iceland, I think I can for say for all off us that it's appreciated. Kudos.
True, they are working on the holiday weekend...
But they didn't need to if only they would have listened to the previous 4 weeks of feedback begging them to get it more fixed before they put it on TQ...so they kinda shot themselves in the foot, and forced themselves to work over the holiday weekend to avoid more subscription losses...
So, in that case, i could care less that they are working on a holiday, b/c they didn't do their proper job the first time. Period.
Heck, i needed to do some work yesterday, but b/c i didn't, i'll be working on today (US holiday) to get it done, and that is the way it is.
http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
arria Auscent
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:20:00 -
[69] - Quote
what part of 'we dont want it fixed we want the old one back' dont you get?
the new UI is a mess at best no player of eve would have thought that this was a good idea
and dont say you cant put the old UI back because if you cant then your not a dev, go pack boxes for a living and save us from this mess in the future |
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC Vanguard.
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:22:00 -
[70] - Quote
Maratega wrote:Industrialist, logistics, pos feeding, planetary feeding, miner ops, corp items distribution, etc. would be much easier with this. Now need hundreds of clicks to do this works, its really hurt. Sorry for repeating, but it seems you dont listen...
Hmm have I heard this before... |
|
Disdaine
311
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:23:00 -
[71] - Quote
So you weren't at all happy with the state of the UI, and yet you released it to TQ anyway.
Thanks for ruining a week of eve for me, lets see if tuesday returns at least a resemblance of functionality to this brainfart. |
Yam Ling
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:24:00 -
[72] - Quote
Guys can you please incorperate a way to be able to use the old system and let us choose if we want to use this new system or the old. I for one can see some benefits in what you are trying to achieve (like the filters) but when your moving mulriple caps around trying to switch mods out and ships between assets in a pos this system does not work and is infuriating. Please bring back the old system or at least the option to use it. It is like the windows interface and i think you will find a lot of people like to use the old interface rather then being forced to use the new. A lot of people simply just want to be able to open the windows they need on demand and quickly move stuff between them instead of searching through a list based structure and having the shift click on stuff after finding it in a list to get the job done. |
Aria Wolfe
Great Awakening
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:28:00 -
[73] - Quote
arria Auscent wrote:what part of 'we dont want it fixed we want the old one back' dont you get?
the new UI is a mess at best no player of eve would have thought that this was a good idea
and dont say you cant put the old UI back because if you cant then your not a dev, go pack boxes for a living and save us from this mess in the future
I think we all agree. There is just one way to fix this and that is to revert to the original inventory and don't mess with it! Don't waste time trying to make incremental fixes that will still svck.
I appreciate that CCP has heard our opinions, but making little fixes is NOT what we want, as expressed in these forums. Come on CCP, you're doing so good now, don't drop the ball on this one. :) |
Olan Chang
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:29:00 -
[74] - Quote
Let it go... The old system was a pain and is gone. |
Implying Implications
Broski Enterprises
75
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:31:00 -
[75] - Quote
And it wont even be as good as the old inventory with these so called "improvements". stop deleting my posts |
Lord Loco
LOCO TRUST
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:33:00 -
[76] - Quote
Olan Chang wrote:Let it go... The old system was a pain and is gone.
It was not perfect, but we was able to work with it, and it was very intuitive....
The new one now is a nightmare and its will be for a long time (i hope not forever)
|
Fuji 9000
Sleeping Dogs Awake
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:33:00 -
[77] - Quote
Kody Grey wrote:You guys at CCP just don't get it do you. You took a system, replaced it with something less functional for pretty much every player in Eve, and now have to make improvement on it.
How many resources are being wasted on this effort? Could those resources have gone to something else which needed real "improving"? Nobody should be happy that we have to live with the new system while fixes are slowly rolled out over weeks. Revert back, to what worked fine in the first place, then right click on your new inventory system and click 'trash'.
this
|
Haifisch Zahne
HZ Corp
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:34:00 -
[78] - Quote
Unified Inventory *should* have been Assets.
There should be a button to return the old system-- and turn UI into Assets. |
cuculet
Bearing Srl.
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:37:00 -
[79] - Quote
Fuji 9000 wrote:Kody Grey wrote:You guys at CCP just don't get it do you. You took a system, replaced it with something less functional for pretty much every player in Eve, and now have to make improvement on it.
How many resources are being wasted on this effort? Could those resources have gone to something else which needed real "improving"? Nobody should be happy that we have to live with the new system while fixes are slowly rolled out over weeks. Revert back, to what worked fine in the first place, then right click on your new inventory system and click 'trash'. this like the man say, this |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
195
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:52:00 -
[80] - Quote
The reason why it was released on TQ in this state is obvious.
CCP was hoping this would not be a big enough deal to warrant redoing it. If they did, they did not have enough time to do it before the release date of Inferno. On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á |
|
Haifisch Zahne
HZ Corp
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:55:00 -
[81] - Quote
For the life of me, I can not get Station Containers to respect locks on items when placed inside. It is either totally random, or there is some logic that is eluding me.
I am reminded of a quote by Roger Ebert, which I will change slightly for the situation:
"I hated this [Unified Inventory]. Hated, hated, hated, hated, hated this [Unified Inventory]. I hated it. Hated every simpering stupid vacant [player]-insulting moment of it. Hated the sensibility that thought anyone would like it. Hated the implied insult to the [players] by its belief that anyone would be entertained by it."
Roger, over and out. |
Prince aikka
Vanguard Frontiers Intrepid Crossing
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:02:00 -
[82] - Quote
When is it planed to fix corp members accessing corp hangers in station? as things sit now the only ones in our corp that can access the corp hangers is Directors because of this error "You have been denied access for the following reason: You require take access to open the container requested." Would be nice to fix this one soon. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
87
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:04:00 -
[83] - Quote
Corp hangers need a lot of love. Something in this new inventory makes contracting a ship from a corporate hanger lag and freeze client on the creating contract at the very end. It recovers. but instead of a contract every couple seconds, you are now only able to do 1 every 20-30. This is very bad and needs fixing. |
Lord Loco
LOCO TRUST
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:06:00 -
[84] - Quote
Copy Paste from an other thread:
CCP Soundwave wrote: disasteur wrote:
im sorry for asking, but what are your intentions, and how do you think this to rectify? i understand this is a bizar situation but a little more specific answer would be verry nice
Restoring as much of the old functionality in the new framework.
Please explain this, since I just have been senior software analyst for 20 years so I am certainly newbie in this area:
- You had a partially re-factored system that was not ready for production. It's not just about the bugs, but judging by the "scarce" amount of feedback you are receiving, it lacks of fundamental gameplay features.
- You knew it'd take weeks to implement the missing fundamental, game breaking gameplay features. If you did not (odd), you know about this now.
Despite the above premises:
- You will take weeks if not longer to implement the showstopper missing features but will keep it in production and will keep having a plethora of annoyed players.
- After weeks and weeks in the best case we will achieve... the same stuff we had for 9 years. Just slower and taking unneeded screen real estate.
What's the rationale behind this? |
Alain Kinsella
114
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:06:00 -
[85] - Quote
Gentle reminder to please show corp hangar permissions on the tree view. Just like we have "Swordsworn (Hurricane)" for a ship name, lets please have "Spares (Full Access)" on the corp hangar. Though some of us appreciate that 'no access' hangars are still in the tree, we now think they're empty instead of no access.
Also, double-click to pop-out a folder (or perhaps to 'zoom in,' like Windows behavior). If not directly possible, give us the ability to map that function so a double-click is possible.
I may have come here from Myst Online, but that does not make me any less bloodthirsty than the average Eve player.
Just more subtle.
|
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
140
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:09:00 -
[86] - Quote
We repeate this. We dont want this crap UI. Dont fix, just purge out from eve client. |
Dennie Fleetfoot
EVE University Ivy League
132
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:11:00 -
[87] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:Ishanmae wrote:Nice changes, I like it!
Also... thanks guys for being working and monitoring the threads on a Sunday! Yes, considering its a public holiday weekend in Iceland, I think I can for say for all off us that it's appreciated. Kudos. Monday is a red day too, that's why the fix is going out Tuesday and not Monday. I'll be here though, doing a few posts and taking notes :)
I hear you fella. It always sucks when you have to come in when everyone else is off.
Hope your making those colleagues who are ultimately responsible having to come in to put the fires out, come in as well.
I bloody well would if I was one of the guv'ners. |
Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
79
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:12:00 -
[88] - Quote
geez people stop complaining, the new inventory works, it has its flaws but they are being fixed, personally I ONLY needed 1 of the fixes, and that is the looting one, and its already going to be fixed, so I m happy :) |
TTIGER
nul-li-fy RED.OverLord
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:15:00 -
[89] - Quote
First apology rejected , CCP cant put this crap and save yourself with an apology . Oh carriers /capitals , i wiish someone warned you about them guess what i wanted that right click menu when you rmoved at sisi.
CCP soundwave i think you dont get it what you did CCP HQ ,you had been put a time waster to game (lag creator also ) , if you dont show respect to my time dont wait respe4ct and business from me .
I dont want waste time for things i was doing with just one click .I hope CCP get it now
CCP Soundwave wrote:TheButcherPete wrote:+1 to the changes, now my only gripe is the Carrier interface for drone/fuel/corphangar Yep, we'll get those sorted too.
|
|
CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1190
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:15:00 -
[90] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Corp hangers need a lot of love. Something in this new inventory makes contracting a ship from a corporate hanger lag and freeze client on the creating contract at the very end. It recovers. but instead of a contract every couple seconds, you are now only able to do 1 every 20-30. This is very bad and needs fixing.
Yeah, the performance stuff is at the top of the list. A lot of performance increases on Tuesday. |
|
|
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
141
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:17:00 -
[91] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:
I was working on War Dec and Kill Reports this release - hope you like that stuff!
WolfSchwarzMond answer:
This was on the 1st page of the EVE Online: Inferno - Feedback thread. Post number 10. This tells me that CCP knew we'd hate this new Inventory. There a is Dev going "Don't blame me. I was working on something else.!"
So after 25 pages here and 50 pages in the Feedback Thread, 90% of them saying this thing is "CRAP" or "junk" or "Stupid" or that is just "SUX" the question is simple. Why can't CCP learn from it's own mistakes? We've been here before......]
"Red flags raised by very smart people both at CCP and in the community went unheeded because of my stubborn refusal to allow adversity to gain purchase on our plans." -Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson, CEO
And so CCP have repeated the same mistake. Making a change, testing it, getting feeback from players that said "THIS SUCKS" then ramming it down the player's collective throats anyway.
"The greatest lesson for me is the realization that EVE belongs to you, and we at CCP are just the hosts of your experience." -Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson, CEO
Well Sir, this was a lesson you didn't learn. You are proving it. The new inventory has made Looting from Wrecks, Player Owned Station operations, Jetcan Mining, Corporate Hanger Ops, and dealing with large amounts of items into a tedious, time wasting, torture sessions. The new system lags. It in some cases makes it harder to find things. It makes you repeat the same actions over and over and over where before it was once. Your people were told time and again during Sisi testing that this change was not a good idea, but you did it anyway. Again....
I would humbly suggest that you either Rollback this change or make it optional as you did with the whole Captain's Quarters fiasco. Let us not take this latest lack of good judgement and turn it into International news. Prove to us you can learn from your mistakes. And stop repeating them.
Quotes taken from here http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2672"
Chop trees save EVE!!! |
Lord Loco
LOCO TRUST
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:18:00 -
[92] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Aryth wrote:Corp hangers need a lot of love. Something in this new inventory makes contracting a ship from a corporate hanger lag and freeze client on the creating contract at the very end. It recovers. but instead of a contract every couple seconds, you are now only able to do 1 every 20-30. This is very bad and needs fixing. Yeah, the performance stuff is at the top of the list. A lot of performance increases on Tuesday.
Pleas give us a list what all is planned after this patch. And we need really to now if we can work in future with the new UI like with the The Old Inventory.
Please give us a answer.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1987
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:19:00 -
[93] - Quote
If it hasn't been mentioned before, one thing that would make looting a little quicker and smoother would be any time you have the "loot all" button come up make it so that it has focus so that a player can simply hit the "Enter" key. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Kasriel
142
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:19:00 -
[94] - Quote
how about you listen to what the majority of posts in the main 3 threads were asking for and make file explorer in space optional while you bug test this thing on your paying customers who actually like it, how's that sound?
there's currently 60 pages in the comments thread for your last blog, most are saying either get rid of it or make it optional - all ignored or dismissed there's currently 47 pages in the issues thread for this patch, again a good portion who want it optional or gone - all ignored or dismissed there's currently 52 pages in the inferno feedback thread, with the majority wanting it optional or gone - all ignored or dismissed
not even going to attempt to count all the other threads
great job at listening to your player base there CCP. |
Haifisch Zahne
HZ Corp
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:22:00 -
[95] - Quote
To make up for this fiasco, give us a new feature in the UI for stations and related places: (free) Folders instead of (expensive) Station Containers et al. |
Tez Saurus
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
63
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:33:00 -
[96] - Quote
I like a lot of things about the new inventory, but it takes forever to load if you have any kind of roles for POS fueling or corp hangars, dragging large amounts of items is unreliable, and it seems to have introduced a whole new host of bugs to anything related to inventory.
Also, calling it Unified Inventory when it doesn't include Assets is a bit like calling Incarna... well, Incarna.
I'm glad you guys are working quickly on this and I appreciate all the communication post-introduction of this new system, and in the long run I think it will be better than the old one. But I'd really like a devblog from the mastermind behind this explaining why they felt it was ready for primetime when it not only obviously isn't, but had a large amount of SiSi feedback saying so. |
disasteur
Tellcomtec Incorporated. Preatoriani
107
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:33:00 -
[97] - Quote
yet another topic about the same, i also dont think it will ever be as it was before, just a little sweetner to ease our minds
though i remember something about restoring as much as posible said by a CCP person??? probably a fiction of my imagination
|
Crasniya
Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement
129
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:36:00 -
[98] - Quote
Oh, look at all the unhappy people. CCP's started rolling fixes out in a mere week, and people still have complaints.
I'm glad the Windows 3.1 version of the inventory system is gone. Dragging to column items makes a lot more sense than having to open a bunch of windows and space them so you can find them all. With a 25" screen, I'm still running out of places to shove windows. Unified inventory is good, and they're working on optimizing it now.
From the sound of this post, next week they'll have another set of fixes/enhancements for it as well. |
Robert Warner
Snap Crackle Pop. AAA Citizens
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:39:00 -
[99] - Quote
I can't be dishonest and say I think the new inventory system is functionally superior, or even well conceived (really, I'm sorry). I think it's going to take a lot of love before players like myself will warm to it. Certainly the changes coming up on Tuesday's patch are a great start on ironing the system out.
With regard to improving the system, there are a couple of things that spring to mind:
As a jump freighter pilot trusted by my corporation, I have trouble with the new system when I bring a load of items for corp mates to null sec into hangars which already contain an array of items. Whenever I drop the items in, they become mixed among the other items already present rather than appearing at the bottom of the list. A logistical nightmare! Sure I could buy containers and beautifully organise my inventory so this doesn't happen, but why should I need to when it wasn't necessary with the old system?
The small icons showing containers and the limited window space can make organising items into appropriate containers a problem when many containers exist in the one station. I would suggest allowing players to open new windows for their inventory when they desire to (maybe shift drag containers to creat new windows for them). It simply makes it easier to work with and allows the player to see what's in several containers at once without having to click between them.
Looting in space: Why not enable an option to loot all open wrecks/containers rather than invidivually processing each one? This would actually provide an improvement over the old system.
In closing I would like to voice the opinion that I prefer functionality over aesthetics when it comes to GUI. Sadly, the new inventory system is very much in opposition of this logic: it's cumbersome and restrictive at present.
|
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
196
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:43:00 -
[100] - Quote
all you people screaming for the old UI are just wasting time and forum space as it's not going to happen On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á |
|
Lord Loco
LOCO TRUST
35
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:43:00 -
[101] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Oh, look at all the unhappy people. CCP's started rolling fixes out in a mere week, and people still have complaints.
I'm glad the Windows 3.1 version of the inventory system is gone. Dragging to column items makes a lot more sense than having to open a bunch of windows and space them so you can find them all. With a 25" screen, I'm still running out of places to shove windows. Unified inventory is good, and they're working on optimizing it now.
From the sound of this post, next week they'll have another set of fixes/enhancements for it as well.
for you its good, for me and many other people its crap.
I will have open a bunch of windows, so i can see what is in at all the time. I dont want to search my stuff in a tree with multiple usless clicks!
|
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
142
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:44:00 -
[102] - Quote
Skelf Scunner wrote: "WeGÇÖll do whatever we can to rectify it. We're going to continue to take your valuable feedback and add it to the list of changes we want to make."
You are not listening, and you are not taking the obvious action to rectify the situation
Fix it on sisi.
Put the old, working system back on tranquility.
Will you listen to this feedback?
This!
Please, please, roll it back! Put this mess back onto Sisi, where it belongs. Fix it there.
Generate a little goodwill. You can bring it back in increments. |
Zaphod Beeblebroxer
High Flyers RED.OverLord
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:46:00 -
[103] - Quote
Dear SPACE POPE, HOW I HATE THE NEW INVENTORY SYSTEM!
It seems the best option at this point would be to make the new system optional.
Inv system in a nutshell |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
148
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:46:00 -
[104] - Quote
"Again, you guys have my deepest apologies for this situation."
From devblog. This is lol and ridiculous.
We dont want apologies. We reported all problem from new UI. Anyone listen from CCP our feedbacks ??? We created video etc. But we got the answer from developer.
Can read everyone:
""CCP Arrow wrote: In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem"
Who enabled this crap "Unfinished-Inventory" to put TQ ? Who is the responsibility for this ? We hate this inventory. Unusable,it is a torture for players, a nightmare.
We dont want apologies, we dont want this UI. And we never asked this crap UI.
Do you know what we want ? We want Eve client without Unfinished Inventory. Put back to Sisi, fix it there. We are subscribers not alpha/beta testers. Beta testing is a job, and they get payments for test, but we paying for game and we want play, not testing crap unfinised works.Choop down this horrible Treepanel, we dont want Win 3.1 File Explorer in EVE. We want a handly tools, what the old inventory was. |
Kasriel
147
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:50:00 -
[105] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Oh, look at all the unhappy people. CCP's started rolling fixes out in a mere week, and people still have complaints.
maybe because it shouldn't have been released live yet at all? or maybe because a fair portion of players are being ignored? or maybe just maybe because some people can't see the problem with this situation beyond them pushing a broken inventory system on to the live server.
yeah we've got no right at all to be unhappy have we |
|
CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1192
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:54:00 -
[106] - Quote
Lord Loco wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:Aryth wrote:Corp hangers need a lot of love. Something in this new inventory makes contracting a ship from a corporate hanger lag and freeze client on the creating contract at the very end. It recovers. but instead of a contract every couple seconds, you are now only able to do 1 every 20-30. This is very bad and needs fixing. Yeah, the performance stuff is at the top of the list. A lot of performance increases on Tuesday. Pleas give us a list what all is planned after this patch. And we need really to now if we can work in future with the new UI like with the The Old Inventory. Please give us a answer.
I'd prefer to not keep a "final" list as I'd like us to continue making changes based on the feedback we're getting. What I'll happily post is the list of stuff we know we're going to do right now. Again, with the caveat that we'll add to the list as we go. |
|
AFK Hauler
State War Academy Caldari State
181
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:55:00 -
[107] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1373672#post1373672
C&P:
A new bug I found is that the snap-to function doesn't properly map the open UI windows with tabs being collapsed.
I keep some tabs open all the time (I know, a passing trend), but when I collapse them into a bar, the new UI doesn't map them as an anchor point when adjoined to the open UI window. The tab collapses to the bottom (or top), not the preset anchor point I want it to collapse to - like it did before the UI. The open tab (I guess the old ones are tabs and not The Window) will collapse to where I want it, as long as I do not have it anchored to any of the new UI windows.
The fail mapping of the anchor pint in collapsing the tab to a bar was observed whenever I tried it on all characters.
The crappy thing is, that the some UI bugs are not the same between characters. For instance: One character has the UI set the way I like it and will open just fine that way every time, the other characters need to have their UI "adjusted" to my liking every time I open "The Window" upon docking. It does not save the settings upon redocking my ship. |
alittlebirdy
All Hail The Liopleurodon
34
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:55:00 -
[108] - Quote
Are you people this ******* stupid ROLL IT BACK THATS THE FIX.
and I WANT SOUNDWAVE FIRED
TONS of people looking for jobs LETS GET ONES WHO CAN DO THE JOB WELL. |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
309
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:00:00 -
[109] - Quote
Hi CCP, what about you use that feature you almost used back when you wanted to test a new neocom? That we in options could turn on beta features? |
TheButcherPete
Specter Syndicate Persona Non Gratis
204
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:01:00 -
[110] - Quote
vanillacherry wrote:Can you make shift-clicking something open up in window that doesn't have the tree on it so I don't need to shift-click my cargo icon twice to just have my cargo open up where I want it and then close the main window?
Dude...your ey- oh I see what you did there! You look very displeased at a quick glance :P My moncole doubles as a cigarette lighter, a flashlight, a laser and x-ray goggles. If you haven't noticed yet, I'm in love with Punkturis. -á-á-á
|
|
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
591
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:02:00 -
[111] - Quote
Note: There are things in cargo containers other than loot, and even when the contents of cargo containers is loot it is important to be able to move specific things from the container into other containers quickly and without having to jump through hoops.
I just thought I'd point that out because apparently it still isn't clear to CCP, which is not surprising seeing as none of the game designers actually play the game.
|
TheButcherPete
Specter Syndicate Persona Non Gratis
204
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:07:00 -
[112] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:TheButcherPete wrote:+1 to the changes, now my only gripe is the Carrier interface for drone/fuel/corphangar Yep, we'll get those sorted too.
I wished I was capable of growing such epic facial hair as you, Master Soundwave My moncole doubles as a cigarette lighter, a flashlight, a laser and x-ray goggles. If you haven't noticed yet, I'm in love with Punkturis. -á-á-á
|
disasteur
Tellcomtec Incorporated. Preatoriani
109
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:08:00 -
[113] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Lord Loco wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:Aryth wrote:Corp hangers need a lot of love. Something in this new inventory makes contracting a ship from a corporate hanger lag and freeze client on the creating contract at the very end. It recovers. but instead of a contract every couple seconds, you are now only able to do 1 every 20-30. This is very bad and needs fixing. Yeah, the performance stuff is at the top of the list. A lot of performance increases on Tuesday. Pleas give us a list what all is planned after this patch. And we need really to now if we can work in future with the new UI like with the The Old Inventory. Please give us a answer. I'd prefer to not keep a "final" list as I'd like us to continue making changes based on the feedback we're getting. What I'll happily post is the list of stuff we know we're going to do right now. Again, with the caveat that we'll add to the list as we go.
i would rather have a straight answer for once, you told us in an other topic you would try to restore as much as posible but all i now read is fix and expand on the new UI |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
90
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:10:00 -
[114] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Aryth wrote:Corp hangers need a lot of love. Something in this new inventory makes contracting a ship from a corporate hanger lag and freeze client on the creating contract at the very end. It recovers. but instead of a contract every couple seconds, you are now only able to do 1 every 20-30. This is very bad and needs fixing. Yeah, the performance stuff is at the top of the list. A lot of performance increases on Tuesday.
As a follow up. We are busted completely on mass fitting looks like. The same lag that you see doing a contract, seems to occur when you session change across ships/rename etc. Went from fitting/renaming a ship every 6 seconds or so. To being lucky if its done in 2 minutes. It was bad before how complicated this is to begin with, now with the lag it's horrifying.
This character also has a lot of corporate hangers it can "see". My past experience with the "scanning" of hanger1, then hanger2 etc, leads me to believe the new UI is also looking into every hanger a char can see. We have some pretty large hangers. This is bad.
Edit: adding minutes |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
283
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:12:00 -
[115] - Quote
Current fuctionality on Sisi does to equal old fuctionality with regard to wreck and cargo windows still.
*Cargo containers and wrecks do not open in the same place.
*There is no way to tell how many containers/ wrecks you have stacked with out opening the tree view.
*Opening the wreck for the first time ie with "open Cargo" right click opens in the first window not the location it was prevousely.
*Loot all on a cargo container closes the window and the second one shows up in the main/ first window still.
I want my Main inventory window to stay ships cargo and have wrecks and containers open in a second window which has been used prevousely for that purpose. Locking a window for a purpose would be great. |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
309
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:16:00 -
[116] - Quote
Another thing or two: Ship icons so its easier to tell them appart Ability to make custom folders for sorting stuff within Make it easier to tell how much space is left in ships or containers without having to open them Add ship hangar shortcut again to the neocom Add the ability to shrink the tree structure when needed, and expand again when needed (and it should remember this settings for the new windows, like when you shift-clicked something) The last stated ability is very important as it would make it possible to get same functionality as before and get same screen space |
Amber Solaire
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:20:00 -
[117] - Quote
Just throw out this crappy new UI, and bring back the original hangars
This new UI does NOT work, plus few people even wanted it
Stop trying to fix this broken toy, just give us the option to go back to the old system
(or at least, keep ship hangars separate from the rest) |
Lord Loco
LOCO TRUST
37
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:22:00 -
[118] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Lord Loco wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:Aryth wrote:Corp hangers need a lot of love. Something in this new inventory makes contracting a ship from a corporate hanger lag and freeze client on the creating contract at the very end. It recovers. but instead of a contract every couple seconds, you are now only able to do 1 every 20-30. This is very bad and needs fixing. Yeah, the performance stuff is at the top of the list. A lot of performance increases on Tuesday. Pleas give us a list what all is planned after this patch. And we need really to now if we can work in future with the new UI like with the The Old Inventory. Please give us a answer. I'd prefer to not keep a "final" list as I'd like us to continue making changes based on the feedback we're getting. What I'll happily post is the list of stuff we know we're going to do right now. Again, with the caveat that we'll add to the list as we go.
And we need really to now if we can work in future with the new UI like with the The Old Inventory. |
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
86
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:23:00 -
[119] - Quote
alittlebirdy wrote:Are you people this ******* stupid ROLL IT BACK THATS THE FIX.
and I WANT SOUNDWAVE FIRED
TONS of people looking for jobs LETS GET ONES WHO CAN DO THE JOB WELL.
I'd love to fire you from an artillery cannon but there's some legalities to navigate. they're on the case and know the score, let them sort it.
truth is i completely missed the inv. issues because it works just peachy in sisi and tranq through my eve clients running on a linux operating system. i blanked the bitching from the corp because it sounded like the same high pitched whine every new development elicits.
granted the inv system is a pretty fundamental system to screw up but give em credit for jumping on fumble pop grenade
|
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
149
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:23:00 -
[120] - Quote
Another thing. I'm not a POS manager i dont have access for POS. Why load for me the all pos modules to my inventory this crap UI ? Why i see the strontium bay on the POS grid without access ?
"16:20:51 Notify You cannot perform that action on that object as you do not belong to ...."
Man what a mistake again. 30 sec inventory loading for nothing. because a developer made this stupidity. |
|
Kasriel
154
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:24:00 -
[121] - Quote
how about a good reason why this was pushed live when it was obviously unfinished?
how about a good reason why you won't either make it optional or at the least push it back to the test server for the y'know TESTING |
bongpacks
Mudbug Acquisition Of Empire
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:28:00 -
[122] - Quote
I'm no more happy about these changes than anyone else. I live in w-space so I spend a decent amount of time working with a POS. These new changes have really interfered with my play style as I have to factor in at least an extra 20-40 seconds before I can access anything. Then I have to deal with seeing the 60+ batteries in the tree in which my ship maintenance arrays are mixed in, so I have to scroll around through all the batteries to find my ship maints and of course they bear the same icons as everything else. Not only that I have to go ahead and just open one ship maint from the tree and hope it's the one I want because of course we can't name the ship maintenance arrays so you can't tell one from the other without opening it and waiting the 20 seconds or so for the contents to load. Having to click the open cargohold button then having to shift+click the cargohold of my ship in the tree just to have an independent cargohold as I'm accustomed to is a pain in the butt considering I have to do it EVERY SINGLE TIME I switch ships. Why can I not shift+click the corporate hangar array from the tree and have it open in a separate window but I can shift+click a division within said corporate hangar array? Why are pos batteries even a part of the unified inventory and if they must be why are they not in a group by themselves? I haven't even tried salvaging or using cargo containers yet as frankly I've been scared to even see how bad that must be with the new system. As it stands any situation that would require a fast ship change such as swapping ships to go help a corp mate who has tackle on someone or swapping into a cloaked ship because a corp mate has spotted an intruder jumping into the wormhole so I can remain unseen to up the chances of getting a kill are out of the question with these appalling load times. I vote for a roll back to the previous system so the new one can be fully tested and refined on the TEST SERVER, which is the appropriate place for such a thing. On a completely unrelated note, when I log off at my POS or in space on my main toon and log on to my alt toon on the same account, my main stays in space for an undetermined amount of time but I can tell you it's greater than half an hour. If I wanted I could easily scan myself down, swap ships, warp to and point and kill myself as could anyone else. It's been a bug (god I hope it's a bug) for a couple years now and I've mentioned it a few times before on the forums but never got a reply as per the norm. I think the only direct reply I've ever gotten on the forums from a dev or GM was to clear my cache which of course is a standard canned answer and didn't help. Seems like the devs and GMs only reply to off-topic compliments and non-core issues while they ignore anyone with genuine complaints about severe game-breaking issues. It might be mean to say but maybe another in-game protest and the threat of another round of lay-offs might force them to roll back and consider using the test server for it's intended purpose while leaving TQ as functional as it can be for the general player base. |
SillyWaif
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:29:00 -
[123] - Quote
The whole Unified inventory is kinda messed up *) we have an "Assets window" which is my inventory in space but is not in the inventory (luckily) *) we have the corp hangars in the inventory which is a Corp thing and it should be there imho
*) wrecks in space should open in their own window Now the window replaces your cargo hold window if you just click 'Open box icon" which is the natural thing to click on. If you do want it in its own window you should SHIFT-click the icon... The forced usage SHIFT key is really annoying.
The intent of the Unified inventory was to reduce the number of (open) windows while in effect I WANT the same number of windows open. Only now i have to go through an inconsistent (SHIFT) click-fest to get there It totally defies its purpose ... |
Darius III
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
1371
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:29:00 -
[124] - Quote
Please let us choose which system we want to use, give us an option to roll back if we want to.
While you guys claim you are listening to feedback, when did you START listening? Because it is quite obvious that you didnt listen to feedback about it when people reported problems while this crap interface was still on Sisi. Hmmm |
Lord Loco
LOCO TRUST
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:29:00 -
[125] - Quote
Kasriel wrote:how about a good reason why this was pushed live when it was obviously unfinished?
how about a good reason why you won't either make it optional or at the least push it back to the test server for the y'know TESTING
The reason why they do it not optional ist that the people will not use the new UI crap after this |
SoHo White
Etoilles Mortant Ltd. Solyaris Chtonium
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:29:00 -
[126] - Quote
I've never complained about any change or patch CCP has made in the last 7 years and lets be honest some have been worthy of complaint.
But I am complaining about this !
The Inventory UI is rubbish, please can I have the old one back ?
|
Djavue
Ghetto Booty Development
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:31:00 -
[127] - Quote
like why you even do this stuff ccp lol |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
155
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:38:00 -
[128] - Quote
Darius III wrote:Please let us choose which system we want to use, give us an option to roll back if we want to.
While you guys claim you are listening to feedback, when did you START listening? Because it is quite obvious that you didnt listen to feedback about it when people reported problems while this crap interface was still on Sisi.
First CSM member who trying to save the players' interests. Bud you a littlebit late. :P
|
Pflepsen
Elko Bail Bonds Quixotic Hegemony
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:48:00 -
[129] - Quote
alittlebirdy wrote:Are you people this ******* stupid ROLL IT BACK THATS THE FIX.
and I WANT SOUNDWAVE FIRED
TONS of people looking for jobs LETS GET ONES WHO CAN DO THE JOB WELL. HELL YES!! FIRE HIM! BURN HIM ALIVE! Remove EVERYTHING about the new inventory! |
Cuchulin
DEFCON. The Initiative.
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:49:00 -
[130] - Quote
Since one cant be sure that you monitore the old thread about this clusterfuck:
Quote:Biggest issues for me:
- when in space I have my cargo window open to see how much cap boosters/ ammo is left, this window (even with tree minimized and such) takes now up more space which I dislike because I would like to see my ship and the ship it makes explode -> please make the little volume bar and the isk ammount optional and consider making the frame of the whole thing thinner
- after successfull exploding an enemy ship I am using a loot tab in my overview to quickly open the wreck and cherrypick whatever was not fail of my opponents fitting, this is now broken as it opens the wreck view in my already open cargo window with tree minimzed and such, so that it is impossible to actualy loot anything if I dont want to use the "loot all" feature -> if you do nothing else but this then please please please (did I mention please) have wrecks always open in a new separate window (in minimal mode without tree and whatnot) when accessed by any other means but the tree view
- shift clicking is a bad UI choice especially when in space and I have one hand at my mouse and one hand near the function keys to explode stuff and such... particularly in these situations I am apparently laging a third hand to do the shift thingy....to be fair though, I might use the third hand for something else even if I had it...
- I was nearly killed yesterday because I wanted to look into a wreck and my client locked up for about 5 secs, at the point when my client became responsive again I noticed a hostile ceptor burning towards me which I only escaped by luck (or fail of the ceptor pilot) -> in space every second counts, any lag associated with opening a jetcan or wreck is totaly and utterly unacceptable, I suspect the lag is introduced because in addition to the content of the wreck the new inventory wants to show me all the other shiny wrecks possibly nearby ? Also it wants to calculate isk amount and show me the route to the nearest McDonalds ? If so..... stop that **** and make cargo/jetcan/wreck views totaly separate from the new system
- I dont see a way to distinguish between an actualy empty corp hanagar and one that I just dont have access to, since in both case "Nothing found" is stated....this is suboptimal at the least.... (and yes it is necessary to have non accessible corp hangars in your tree, because some people need to be able to drop stuff in such hangars even though they cant see what is in it and cant take stuff out again...)
in addition:
- double click on a non active ship in my hangar should open the cargohold of said ship (in a new separate window) and not make said ship active as this is highly counterintuitive from usual windows behavior where double click opens folder
- since the new inventory is pretty much the windows explorer.... a back button is desperatly needed !
- the old coprhangar view with multiple tabs on the top was much more userfriendly then having to shiftlick and open all userhangars separatly
Cuchulin |
|
Tez Saurus
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
65
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:52:00 -
[131] - Quote
Ribikoka wrote:Darius III wrote:Please let us choose which system we want to use, give us an option to roll back if we want to.
While you guys claim you are listening to feedback, when did you START listening? Because it is quite obvious that you didnt listen to feedback about it when people reported problems while this crap interface was still on Sisi. First CSM member who trying to save the players' interests. Bud you a littlebit late. :P
It's posturing to make himself look good; he sits in a chatroom with devs, if a CSM needs to tell CCP something they don't do it on a forum thread, they actually talk to the devs. |
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
144
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:54:00 -
[132] - Quote
alittlebirdy wrote:Are you people this ******* stupid ROLL IT BACK THATS THE FIX.
and I WANT SOUNDWAVE FIRED
TONS of people looking for jobs LETS GET ONES WHO CAN DO THE JOB WELL.
CCP Soundwave:
IIRC you were called in once more senior folk in your company realized that this 'improvement' was a true stinker. -- Thank you for watching over the various Threadnaughts during the long holiday weekend -- Thank you for your oversight in trying to fix this stinker. -- Hang tough
Please make repairs to this thing on Sisi. Goodwill to be gained rolling it back. |
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
3597
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:09:00 -
[133] - Quote
|
|
1Of9
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
84
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:13:00 -
[134] - Quote
alittlebirdy wrote:Are you people this ******* stupid ROLL IT BACK THATS THE FIX.
and I WANT SOUNDWAVE FIRED
TONS of people looking for jobs LETS GET ONES WHO CAN DO THE JOB WELL.
This.
I want soundwave head aswell.. this is absurdly stupid.
|
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
158
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:14:00 -
[135] - Quote
The smart playerbase would be understand, when a CCP member, tell to us why so import this inventory for EVE client. What there is in the background ??? Why they want to put trought this our throat at all costs ?
The players maybe would forgive if they would be known the real reasons
But the CCP still saying nothing. |
1Of9
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
88
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:14:00 -
[136] - Quote
Darius III wrote:Please let us choose which system we want to use, give us an option to roll back if we want to.
While you guys claim you are listening to feedback, when did you START listening? Because it is quite obvious that you didnt listen to feedback about it when people reported problems while this crap interface was still on Sisi.
Sounds like i need to vote for you on next CSM ...... |
Darius III
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
1378
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:16:00 -
[137] - Quote
Ribikoka wrote: First CSM member who trying to save the players' interests. Bud you a littlebit late. :P
I have made other posts, and posted in the CSM/CCP forums that this inventory system is trash, and have requested a rollback and also requested that they make the system OPTIONAL.
Tez Saurus wrote:
It's posturing to make himself look good; he sits in a chatroom with devs, if a CSM needs to tell CCP something they don't do it on a forum thread, they actually talk to the devs.
It is not posturing mate, and I dont give a rats ass about "looking good" for the community or anyone else.
As someone who plays eve over 3,000 hours a year, the inventory system is a slap in the face. CCP is showing that they are willing to put forth an unfinished update, that is near universally hated and has done this despite volumes of feedback from the community. I will not be renewing my subscriptions on non-essential alt accounts.
Like the last failed addition to Eve-Incarna, this patch adds lag, takes away functionality, and is despised by the people who actually use it. It is a real shame that they wont do the right thing: Roll it back and make it optional when reintroduced.
It is almost as if they put their image to outsiders before customer wants/needs. They seem to feel that the inventory changes are an "improvement" and more click and scrolling = more fun. If the changes are an improvement, then make them optional and let the players choose.
While CCP says they are listening to us, if they were listening before, this never would have went live. If they are listening to us, then they would roll it back. They say they are making fixes ASAP to some of it, they also say that they dont have fixes for some of the other bits, and I guess we will just have to suffer through it.
CCP: do us a favor-instead of claiming to listen to us and make fixes, ACTUALLY LISTEN TO US and roll back this turd till it is fixed then let us choose if we would like to use the new Inventory system. Hmmm |
Galena Pleiades
Czerka. The Methodical Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:16:00 -
[138] - Quote
I would like to add my twopence halfpennies worth - This Inventory change is crap. Please return to separate windows for Cargo and Items, and return right-clicking for drone bay as well. I like to see at a glance what I have . With two separate windows it's easy enough to drag and drop. I've also found it awkward trying to put in a partial amount of cargo. e.g. Taking 500 units instead of 1000. - At very least, as in Captain's Quarter's give us the choice to opt out. Just because some guy thinks that he/she has come up with a good idea, does not mean that it is a good idea. |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
158
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:16:00 -
[139] - Quote
I want your Revelation in Amarr, because i want to shot monument there . |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
158
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:18:00 -
[140] - Quote
Darius III wrote:Ribikoka wrote: First CSM member who trying to save the players' interests. Bud you a littlebit late. :P
I have made other posts, and posted in the CSM/CCP forums that this inventory system is trash, and have requested a rollback and also requested that they make the system OPTIONAL. Tez Saurus wrote:
It's posturing to make himself look good; he sits in a chatroom with devs, if a CSM needs to tell CCP something they don't do it on a forum thread, they actually talk to the devs.
It is not posturing mate, and I dont give a rats ass about "looking good" for the community or anyone else. As someone who plays eve over 3,000 hours a year, the inventory system is a slap in the face. CCP is showing that they are willing to put forth an unfinished update, that is near universally hated and has done this despite volumes of feedback from the community. I will not be renewing my subscriptions on non-essential alt accounts. Like the last failed addition to Eve-Incarna, this patch adds lag, takes away functionality, and is despised by the people who actually use it. It is a real shame that they wont do the right thing: Roll it back and make it optional when reintroduced. It is almost as if they put their image to outsiders before customer wants/needs. They seem to feel that the inventory changes are an "improvement" and more click and scrolling = more fun. If the changes are an improvement, then make them optional and let the players choose. While CCP says they are listening to us, if they were listening before, this never would have went live. If they are listening to us, then they would roll it back. They say they are making fixes ASAP to some of it, they also say that they dont have fixes for some of the other bits, and I guess we will just have to suffer through it. CCP: do us a favor-instead of claiming to listen to us and make fixes, ACTUALLY LISTEN TO US and roll back this turd till it is fixed then let us choose if we would like to use the new Inventory system.
+1 |
|
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
148
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:22:00 -
[141] - Quote
1Of9 wrote:alittlebirdy wrote:Are you people this ******* stupid ROLL IT BACK THATS THE FIX.
and I WANT SOUNDWAVE FIRED
TONS of people looking for jobs LETS GET ONES WHO CAN DO THE JOB WELL. This. I want soundwave head aswell.. this is absurdly stupid.
Hello 1of9:
It is CCP Optimal and CCP Arrow who gave us this mess. Soundwave's been called in to limit the damage and do what's possible to fix the mess.
Fingers crossed for a rollback. |
Lord Loco
LOCO TRUST
41
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:23:00 -
[142] - Quote
Darius III wrote:Ribikoka wrote: First CSM member who trying to save the players' interests. Bud you a littlebit late. :P
I have made other posts, and posted in the CSM/CCP forums that this inventory system is trash, and have requested a rollback and also requested that they make the system OPTIONAL. Tez Saurus wrote:
It's posturing to make himself look good; he sits in a chatroom with devs, if a CSM needs to tell CCP something they don't do it on a forum thread, they actually talk to the devs.
It is not posturing mate, and I dont give a rats ass about "looking good" for the community or anyone else. As someone who plays eve over 3,000 hours a year, the inventory system is a slap in the face. CCP is showing that they are willing to put forth an unfinished update, that is near universally hated and has done this despite volumes of feedback from the community. I will not be renewing my subscriptions on non-essential alt accounts. Like the last failed addition to Eve-Incarna, this patch adds lag, takes away functionality, and is despised by the people who actually use it. It is a real shame that they wont do the right thing: Roll it back and make it optional when reintroduced. It is almost as if they put their image to outsiders before customer wants/needs. They seem to feel that the inventory changes are an "improvement" and more click and scrolling = more fun. If the changes are an improvement, then make them optional and let the players choose. While CCP says they are listening to us, if they were listening before, this never would have went live. If they are listening to us, then they would roll it back. They say they are making fixes ASAP to some of it, they also say that they dont have fixes for some of the other bits, and I guess we will just have to suffer through it. CCP: do us a favor-instead of claiming to listen to us and make fixes, ACTUALLY LISTEN TO US and roll back this turd till it is fixed then let us choose if we would like to use the new Inventory system.
+1 vote |
Ketov Aktar
Grey Wolff
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:27:00 -
[143] - Quote
While you guys are working on this, would it be a possibility to make the font in the Index window a bit bolder or colored so that is is a bit easier to read? It is hard to read when docked in station environment at this time. Also the sound for energy weapons do not work correctly. Thanks for working this weekend btw |
Erth Paradine
TriFlexure
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:33:00 -
[144] - Quote
Oh, so NOW you're finally wiling to fix what's been broken since day one. Remind me, what's the point of SiSi again? |
DazedOne
The Crabbit S O L A R I S
30
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:36:00 -
[145] - Quote
Darius III wrote:Please let us choose which system we want to use, give us an option to roll back if we want to.
While you guys claim you are listening to feedback, when did you START listening? Because it is quite obvious that you didnt listen to feedback about it when people reported problems while this crap interface was still on Sisi.
Good to see one of our CSM actually taking a stance on how this abomination is an atrocity on everyone who has massive amounts of inventory. Roll this steaming pile of crap back to the old system which functioned just fine.
Those of you who still plan on playing this game vote out the rest of our worthless CSM and get people in there that wont slob the knob of CCP. We need people that will genuinely represent the players not most of these yes men waiting on their next trip to Iceland.
Roll it Back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Xercodo
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Dark Matter Coalition
1100
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:36:00 -
[146] - Quote
Krystyn wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:CCP Phantom wrote:The reception of the Unified Inventory seems to be somewhat less than perfect as some of the functionality is not in the state as it should be. We are listening carefully to your good and welcome feedback and treat it serious. Without further ado, let me present a Sunday devblog by CCP Soundwave about the first round of Unified Inventory improvements, read all about these changes here. Please use this thread for feedback, thank you. That's a diplomatic way of putting it. Nice to see you treating it seriously and taking fast action to rectify the imperfections. Yep, absolutely. Getting this into a state where you guys like it is the first priority right now. One wonders why this was implemented as such in the first place. I can't imagine anyone in their right mind who would push this half done...(can't say it politely)... Is there some internal CCP memorandum that you have to push out patches at a certain rate? If so you need to toss that memo out with the TPS reports because you are destroying your customer base with these ill conceived up(down)grades. I would rather wait awhile for the programming to be thoroughly tested and worked over on the test server and then advertised heavily on how the new UI changes will work and how to replicate the previous functionality and that needs to be the starting point for any and all UI changes.
While I do already like the new system for saving me the clutter of the windows and the new filters and stuff and am immensely happy about all the other changes mentioned in the blog I do have to agree with this to an extent.
Clarified to:
-Give it time on SiSi to have the living **** beat out of it -Create VERY thorough guides on the new system
The Drake is a Lie |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
159
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:36:00 -
[147] - Quote
Lord Loco wrote:Darius III wrote:Ribikoka wrote: First CSM member who trying to save the players' interests. Bud you a littlebit late. :P
I have made other posts, and posted in the CSM/CCP forums that this inventory system is trash, and have requested a rollback and also requested that they make the system OPTIONAL. Tez Saurus wrote:
It's posturing to make himself look good; he sits in a chatroom with devs, if a CSM needs to tell CCP something they don't do it on a forum thread, they actually talk to the devs.
It is not posturing mate, and I dont give a rats ass about "looking good" for the community or anyone else. As someone who plays eve over 3,000 hours a year, the inventory system is a slap in the face. CCP is showing that they are willing to put forth an unfinished update, that is near universally hated and has done this despite volumes of feedback from the community. I will not be renewing my subscriptions on non-essential alt accounts. Like the last failed addition to Eve-Incarna, this patch adds lag, takes away functionality, and is despised by the people who actually use it. It is a real shame that they wont do the right thing: Roll it back and make it optional when reintroduced. It is almost as if they put their image to outsiders before customer wants/needs. They seem to feel that the inventory changes are an "improvement" and more click and scrolling = more fun. If the changes are an improvement, then make them optional and let the players choose. While CCP says they are listening to us, if they were listening before, this never would have went live. If they are listening to us, then they would roll it back. They say they are making fixes ASAP to some of it, they also say that they dont have fixes for some of the other bits, and I guess we will just have to suffer through it. CCP: do us a favor-instead of claiming to listen to us and make fixes, ACTUALLY LISTEN TO US and roll back this turd till it is fixed then let us choose if we would like to use the new Inventory system. +1 vote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1374469#post1374469 And what say from this CSM member answer ? :P |
Aroye
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:38:00 -
[148] - Quote
Darius III wrote:Please let us choose which system we want to use, give us an option to roll back if we want to.
While you guys claim you are listening to feedback, when did you START listening? Because it is quite obvious that you didnt listen to feedback about it when people reported problems while this crap interface was still on Sisi.
Did CCP ever rollback any change to the game? They don't have a reverse gear! So it seems we are stuck with this "enhanced UI". If only it worked more than half the time I could tolarate it. |
Zora stein
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:47:00 -
[149] - Quote
Just make a box we can click to use our classic UI instead of this new garbage UI.If microsoft windows can do it im sure you can.You guys sure are a stubborn bunch at ccp.With decisions like keeping this UI its a wonder your still around. |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
117
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:54:00 -
[150] - Quote
I think CCP should actually roll back the inventory system because by the time they are done making changes to make it as functional as the old system, it will actually be the old system. Move your resources away from the inventory and put it on things that actually need it, that were and are broken. ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o )
The world would be a better place if boobies ran the world instead of boobs. |
|
Gogela
State Protectorate Caldari State
782
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 18:03:00 -
[151] - Quote
I guess I'll just say this again...
...so you warp into a wreck and open it. You see "ah ha! There's a deadspace MWD, a faction armor mod, and a bunch of cap boosters and T1 crap I don't want, what a fail fit but I'll just take the good stuff"
Now in this situation you don't want to "loot all". It wouldn't all fit in your cargo hold anyway. You have 1 movement to grab what you want or someone w/ a bigger cargo hold is going to get it. ...but now I have to open ANOTHER window. Why is that? Get it through your head "loot all" isn't what people want to use most of the time when looting. It's a nice button and a good change to the looting mechanic, but it is NOT a replacement to the looters methodology but rather a supplement! It is not the most commonly used method of looting because in most contexts it's not the most efficient. If your answer to the cumbersome looting through inventory problem involves the "loot all" button you haven't solved a damn thing.
Look... an improvement to something like looting involves faster action. In the old mechanic I had my cargo open, and I would open wreck, ctrl+click mods, drag to cargo. If it is not AS EASY or EASIER in terms of speed, process, total number of clicks, you have not made an improvement.
I appreciate your efforts and will continue to point this problem out using different wording, more colorful metaphors, and increasingly cynical and/or sarcastic tone to aide you in this process as you apply band-aides to this problem.
Thank you for your attention.
|
DazedOne
The Crabbit S O L A R I S
35
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 18:08:00 -
[152] - Quote
How many Dev Blogs are you guys going to post on the same freakin topic?????????????????? You know we hate this steaming pile of crap so stop trying to divide us on various forum pages on the same damn topic. It is little things like this that really pisses me off about you guys. Maybe if you didn't have our concerns in 50 different locations maybe just maybe you would realize what we actually want and not to continue to polish a turd. |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
752
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 18:22:00 -
[153] - Quote
@CCP Soundwave
Hey dude, I'm not sure if you're still checking in on this thread or not. I have a question that, if you don't mind answering or maybe a few of the other devs can answer.
When a major change to the UI is about to be introduced. I take time out of running an alliance, real life and many other things to log on to a test server in an attempt to provide bug reports and feedback on the proper forum. Now there are some developers who I know read my feedback, in fact, quite a few of my ideas have been implemented into EVE.
Is it an internal policy that the people who are working on features read the respective threads and follow them for updates? If not, should/could it be?
And if it was, would it be possible to assign some ISD's to keep them clean of white noise or repeated suggestions so that the information is easier for developers to follow?
On a side note. The effort I put into compiling ideas or coming up with ones which would in-effect make this new inventory awesome for launch were not only ignored, but they were kicked aside by the developers. This attitude is what got CCP in the storm last year and it then falls on your shoulders to play damage control. I think it's unfair to you and to the developers who invest the company's time to produce a quality product only to be overshadowed by people on your staff who don't put as much care into their work.
I never wish for someone's head when it comes to a job as their families and lively hood is at stake. However, one would have thought with the massive layoffs last year that there would be a little more sense of urgency in terms of putting out a polished product you'd put your name on.
When it hits the live server, it doesn't matter who's team is on the individual component, CCP's name is on it. This is something that should be echoing through the cubicles at the office and if a team lets everyone down, there should be some kind of internal hazing that goes on. Those offenders should know that they have embarrassed you and brought everyone in the company down.
I seriously feel bad for people like CCP Punktaris who put out a quality product, listen to feedback and work to involve themselves into the community only to be overshadowed by this new inventory system. Or yourself who now is playing Damage Control II.
A list of fixes for the new inventory
Dual Pane idea clicky |
Disdaine
319
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 18:23:00 -
[154] - Quote
Darius III wrote: As someone who plays eve over 3,000 hours a year, the inventory system is a slap in the face. CCP is showing that they are willing to put forth an unfinished update, that is near universally hated and has done this despite volumes of feedback from the community. I will not be renewing my subscriptions on non-essential alt accounts.
Like the last failed addition to Eve-Incarna, this patch adds lag, takes away functionality, and is despised by the people who actually use it. It is a real shame that they wont do the right thing: Roll it back and make it optional when reintroduced.
It is almost as if they put their image to outsiders before customer wants/needs. They seem to feel that the inventory changes are an "improvement" and more click and scrolling = more fun. If the changes are an improvement, then make them optional and let the players choose.
While CCP says they are listening to us, if they were listening before, this never would have went live. If they are listening to us, then they would roll it back. They say they are making fixes ASAP to some of it, they also say that they dont have fixes for some of the other bits, and I guess we will just have to suffer through it.
CCP: do us a favor-instead of claiming to listen to us and make fixes, ACTUALLY LISTEN TO US and roll back this turd till it is fixed then let us choose if we would like to use the new Inventory system.
At least one member is truly representing the players.
No wonder you're not invited to the CSM's circle jerks. |
sinqlaison
Capital Builders Inc.
26
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 18:29:00 -
[155] - Quote
Must say with the left-click I can open multiple cans as I could in the past and do my stuff. However, when I am trying to put stuff in a can it TAKES AGES. For instance, if I move 30 capital component BPCs from my corporate hangar and shift them to a station container it takes roughly 3 miunutes for the last of the to emerge in the station container. That means shifting 1 item takes close to 10 (TEN) seconds. As I am selling supercarrier packs this means that building a titan BPC pack takes something like 1,100 x 10 seconds = 11,000 seconds / 60 seconds per minute = 200 minutes = 3,5 hours. This, as you CCP can imagine, is completely ridiculous. What can I do now about this? Is there a way to speed this up by keeping destination cans closed or anything? Please help. And make a fix or roll this back. A customer and player with 27 accounts will be happy. He is not now.
|
Tobin Shalim
Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 18:34:00 -
[156] - Quote
Quote: Again, you guys have my deepest apologies for this situation. [bWeGÇÖll do whatever we can to rectify it.[/b] We're going to continue to take your valuable feedback and add it to the list of changes we want to make.
More changes are coming, I'll do another update on Tuesday (May 29th).
Soundwave
Ok, well, about the only thing I have to say to that (and the whole unified inventory in general) is that if Soundwave and the rest of CCP are really sincere about that statement (and I'm saying this as constructive feedback) then what you need to do to rectify it is listen to those of us on the test server that were telling you over the course of weeks that unified inventory was broken and needed work. No, you wound up pushing ahead full steam and releasing a really broken bit of code onto TQ over the objections of everyone. Me, personally, I love the idea of UI, but with the various bugs and bits that were raised, I hate it right now.
What I want for CCP to do to rectify it is start listening to the Sisi people on the various feedback threads when we tell you that something is broken and it needs some fixin'. I promise you that reception to the UI would be much, much more positive if you had pushed back the release date to work on it, or barring that, to not have it in this release. I speak for myself when I say that I'd be happier if you pushed back something like this a few weeks to work on it some more with testers, to make sure it's done right instead of releasing a buggy and broken game mechanic and then rush around on PR, damage control, and taxing your coders to fix the problems that the whole playerbase is raising, which are no different than what the testers raised (important point).
Trust me, you would get a far better response if you did something like that. For one, it shows that you listen to player feedback during a testing state, rather than waiting to release it and ignoring the problem until it gets to be so huge that you just cannot ignore it anymore. Two, it would increase your reputation in your playerbase and in general if you show that you listen to player feedback during testing stages. This is also critical if you hope to get a playerbase of Dust 514 players outside of the fanbase that is Eve; you need to increase your rep outside of just us Eve players if you wish to branch out to other ventures and see those ventures be successful.
tl;dr: Listen to your Sisi feedback players, you'll have better PR as a company, happier players, and less taxing work on your coders. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1341
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 18:39:00 -
[157] - Quote
I repeat this again...
Tranq is not test server. You should be developing features in Tranq.
Put Unified inventory back to SiSi, take few months to go through all the feedback you have in main forums now and try releasing this feature in winter expansion again (if it is actually working by then).
You really need to understand that (some) people pay to play this game. As long they are not willing (or are unable to) play this game because of the inventory system currently in game - you are doing it wrong.
Think it this way. Your brand new rental car breaks down. Service company gives you repair estimate of 2-4 weeks and promises to come to your yard every day to fix it so that you can still pay the rent and have your broken car and be unable to do nothing with it. Are you happy now? Now there is CCP for you.
Get |
vanillacherry
golden blueberry
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 18:41:00 -
[158] - Quote
TheButcherPete wrote:vanillacherry wrote:Can you make shift-clicking something open up in window that doesn't have the tree on it so I don't need to shift-click my cargo icon twice to just have my cargo open up where I want it and then close the main window? Dude...your ey- oh I see what you did there! You look very displeased at a quick glance :P https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1347482#post1347482 But that's beside the discussion here.
On topic: I like the new bar that shows how full a location is and the ISK amount display and whatnot, however I don't see much of a use for the tree view/main window dealy myself. I think if you guys made shift-click never open the main window and only open the specific location clicked (cargohold, drone bay, pos mod etc.) that would make it better for a lot of people. The new system would still be around but people could make it function like the old which is what a lot of people seem to want. |
Paul Clancy
Korpu no Byakko Tower of Dark Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 18:42:00 -
[159] - Quote
Gogela wrote:I guess I'll just say this again... ...so you warp into a wreck and open it. You see "ah ha! There's a deadspace MWD, a faction armor mod, and a bunch of cap boosters and T1 crap I don't want, what a fail fit but I'll just take the good stuff" Now in this situation you don't want to "loot all". It wouldn't all fit in your cargo hold anyway. You have 1 movement to grab what you want or someone w/ a bigger cargo hold is going to get it. ...but now I have to open ANOTHER window. Why is that? Get it through your head "loot all" isn't what people want to use most of the time when looting. It's a nice button and a good change to the looting mechanic, but it is NOT a replacement to the looters methodology but rather a supplement! It is not the most commonly used method of looting because in most contexts it's not the most efficient. If your answer to the cumbersome looting through inventory problem involves the "loot all" button you haven't solved a damn thing. Look... an improvement to something like looting involves faster action. In the old mechanic I had my cargo open, and I would open wreck, ctrl+click mods, drag to cargo. If it is not AS EASY or EASIER in terms of speed, process, total number of clicks, you have not made an improvement. I appreciate your efforts and will continue to point this problem out using different wording, more colorful metaphors, and increasingly cynical and/or sarcastic tone to aide you in this process as you apply band-aides to this problem. Thank you for your attention.
but, but! now you may open the wreck, ctrl-click the items, then drag it to the string of your ship in tree, yes? then drop it on the string. |
cuculet
Bearing Srl.
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 18:43:00 -
[160] - Quote
Ribikoka wrote:The smart playerbase would be understand, when a CCP member, tell to us why so import this inventory for EVE client. What there is in the background ??? Why they want to put trought this our throat at all costs ?
The players maybe would forgive if they would be known the real reasons
But the CCP still saying nothing.
they say nothing cose we are probly testing an ui code that will be used for other CCP games as well; that three looking inventory will go very well with a console game, don't you think: " two games, one universe, one currency ..." and one inventory system i may add |
|
Max Gades
The 8th Tribe Seraphim Dragoons.
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 18:44:00 -
[161] - Quote
So no hope of having the old style corp hanger window to be opened up with shift click and have all 7 tabs in one window with using a single filter that works for the whole corp hanger instead of opening 7 diffrent windowns to fully utilize the entire corp hanger? |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
166
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 18:47:00 -
[162] - Quote
So, in this devblog, we just got another apology and promises just like the old one.
Someone remember the old promises ? So many promises and fast forgive and forget.
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2672
"Red flags raised by very smart people both at CCP and in the community went unheeded because of my stubborn refusal to allow adversity to gain purchase on our plans." -Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson, CEO
"The greatest lesson for me is the realization that EVE belongs to you, and we at CCP are just the hosts of your experience." -Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson, CEO
|
Max Gades
The 8th Tribe Seraphim Dragoons.
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 18:47:00 -
[163] - Quote
cuculet wrote:Ribikoka wrote:The smart playerbase would be understand, when a CCP member, tell to us why so import this inventory for EVE client. What there is in the background ??? Why they want to put trought this our throat at all costs ?
The players maybe would forgive if they would be known the real reasons
But the CCP still saying nothing. they say nothing cose we are probly testing an ui code that will be used for other CCP games as well; that three looking inventory will go very well with a console game, don't you think: " two games, one universe, one currency ..." and one inventory system i may add
Honestly using EVE as a test pad for other games is a bad idea. I mean look back at incarna with the CQ's and getting rid of the ship hangers and the crap for MircoTransactions. Most people who wear the Monocle are people who pretty much own tech moons, have lots of RL money and nothing to do with it, Or just Dbags to be completely honest. |
Lan Staz
Aperture Harmonics K162
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 18:50:00 -
[164] - Quote
Hmmm... which of the following are there more of?
a) players who will forum whine unless the old inventory system is restored b) players who will forum whine if the old inventory system is restored
Right now we can only count (a), but I'm not entirely sure there wouldn't be more (b)s. |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
41
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 18:52:00 -
[165] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Monday is a red day too, that's why the fix is going out Tuesday and not Monday. I'll be here though, doing a few posts and taking notes :) Translation: even his wife is pissed at him for how botched the Inventory UI was, and so the office is the only place he can hide.
MDD
|
cuculet
Bearing Srl.
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 19:00:00 -
[166] - Quote
Max Gades wrote:cuculet wrote:Ribikoka wrote:The smart playerbase would be understand, when a CCP member, tell to us why so import this inventory for EVE client. What there is in the background ??? Why they want to put trought this our throat at all costs ?
The players maybe would forgive if they would be known the real reasons
But the CCP still saying nothing. they say nothing cose we are probly testing an ui code that will be used for other CCP games as well; that three looking inventory will go very well with a console game, don't you think: " two games, one universe, one currency ..." and one inventory system i may add Honestly using EVE as a test pad for other games is a bad idea. I mean look back at incarna with the CQ's and getting rid of the ship hangers and the crap for MircoTransactions. Most people who wear the Monocle are people who pretty much own tech moons, have lots of RL money and nothing to do with it, Or just Dbags to be completely honest.
well your assumption is correct, or at least it should be in about 99% of the casses; but we are talking about CCP here, they did it before, so it won't surprise me it they are doing it again; cose no matter how you look at it, there was no need for this ui to be implemented live right now |
Max Gades
The 8th Tribe Seraphim Dragoons.
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 19:07:00 -
[167] - Quote
cuculet wrote:Max Gades wrote:cuculet wrote:Ribikoka wrote:The smart playerbase would be understand, when a CCP member, tell to us why so import this inventory for EVE client. What there is in the background ??? Why they want to put trought this our throat at all costs ?
The players maybe would forgive if they would be known the real reasons
But the CCP still saying nothing. they say nothing cose we are probly testing an ui code that will be used for other CCP games as well; that three looking inventory will go very well with a console game, don't you think: " two games, one universe, one currency ..." and one inventory system i may add Honestly using EVE as a test pad for other games is a bad idea. I mean look back at incarna with the CQ's and getting rid of the ship hangers and the crap for MircoTransactions. Most people who wear the Monocle are people who pretty much own tech moons, have lots of RL money and nothing to do with it, Or just Dbags to be completely honest. well your assumption is correct, or at least it should be in about 99% of the casses; but we are talking about CCP here, they did it before, so it won't surprise me it they are doing it again; cose no matter how you look at it, there was no need for this ui to be implemented live right now
Fully Agreed, I mean I looked at the sisi forum for the whole 5 weeks it was out and about 99% of the feed back was Negative. So honestly they are just going with the ignore player imput. I dont mind most of it though aside from the full loss of functionality of the Corp hangers and being able to use 1 window vs 7 and 1 filter vs 1 for each corp hanger window instead of it all being tied in as one.
Plus the only way that I've found for them to stay in 1 spot is to pin them then you have the hanger background and trying to read text with that showing and sort though mods give me a headach. Not sure about anyone else though.
Honestly they should probably take the time and do a Unified Inventory Tutorial Like they did for the new probing system when it was introduced. |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
756
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 19:08:00 -
[168] - Quote
cuculet wrote:Max Gades wrote:cuculet wrote:Ribikoka wrote:The smart playerbase would be understand, when a CCP member, tell to us why so import this inventory for EVE client. What there is in the background ??? Why they want to put trought this our throat at all costs ?
The players maybe would forgive if they would be known the real reasons
But the CCP still saying nothing. they say nothing cose we are probly testing an ui code that will be used for other CCP games as well; that three looking inventory will go very well with a console game, don't you think: " two games, one universe, one currency ..." and one inventory system i may add Honestly using EVE as a test pad for other games is a bad idea. I mean look back at incarna with the CQ's and getting rid of the ship hangers and the crap for MircoTransactions. Most people who wear the Monocle are people who pretty much own tech moons, have lots of RL money and nothing to do with it, Or just Dbags to be completely honest. well your assumption is correct, or at least it should be in about 99% of the casses; but we are talking about CCP here, they did it before, so it won't surprise me it they are doing it again; cose no matter how you look at it, there was no need for this ui to be implemented live right now
Your figures are off dude. The majority of this expansion was quality work put out that got over shadowed by something you interface with frequently.
The new UI enhancements to the war system, killmails, LP. The new bombers and all the hours put into updating the Amarr ships (weather you like them or not doesn't matter, there was a lot of time put into it). Missile effects and the change to the War Mechanics as well as low sec re-vamp and faction warfare.
This was an overall successful expansion that got shat on by one poorly written component. CCP Soundwave's candor on this should thanked and you should be happy that they're communicating to us so frequently which pales in comparison to the debacle that went on last year where we waited weeks for feedback.
A list of fixes for the new inventory
Dual Pane idea clicky |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
699
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 19:08:00 -
[169] - Quote
Ribikoka wrote:So, in this devblog, we just got another apology and promises just like the old one. Someone remember the old promises ? So many promises and fast forgive and forget. http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2672"Red flags raised by very smart people both at CCP and in the community went unheeded because of my stubborn refusal to allow adversity to gain purchase on our plans." -Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson, CEO "The greatest lesson for me is the realization that EVE belongs to you, and we at CCP are just the hosts of your experience." -Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson, CEO
Well, but now they're not going to do it never again unless they do it again.
On the positive side, nobody is talking about the new wardec system, the allies system, the mercenay marketplace nor any of the war-related stuff in Inferno. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Max Gades
The 8th Tribe Seraphim Dragoons.
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 19:18:00 -
[170] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:cuculet wrote:Max Gades wrote:cuculet wrote:Ribikoka wrote:The smart playerbase would be understand, when a CCP member, tell to us why so import this inventory for EVE client. What there is in the background ??? Why they want to put trought this our throat at all costs ?
The players maybe would forgive if they would be known the real reasons
But the CCP still saying nothing. they say nothing cose we are probly testing an ui code that will be used for other CCP games as well; that three looking inventory will go very well with a console game, don't you think: " two games, one universe, one currency ..." and one inventory system i may add Honestly using EVE as a test pad for other games is a bad idea. I mean look back at incarna with the CQ's and getting rid of the ship hangers and the crap for MircoTransactions. Most people who wear the Monocle are people who pretty much own tech moons, have lots of RL money and nothing to do with it, Or just Dbags to be completely honest. well your assumption is correct, or at least it should be in about 99% of the casses; but we are talking about CCP here, they did it before, so it won't surprise me it they are doing it again; cose no matter how you look at it, there was no need for this ui to be implemented live right now Your figures are off dude. The majority of this expansion was quality work put out that got over shadowed by something you interface with frequently. The new UI enhancements to the war system, killmails, LP. The new bombers and all the hours put into updating the Amarr ships (weather you like them or not doesn't matter, there was a lot of time put into it). Missile effects and the change to the War Mechanics as well as low sec re-vamp and faction warfare. This was an overall successful expansion that got shat on by one poorly written component. CCP Soundwave's candor on this should thanked and you should be happy that they're communicating to us so frequently which pales in comparison to the debacle that went on last year where we waited weeks for feedback.
And just how it it with real life at work you can get a 100 good jobs and it can all be screwed over by 1 WTF is this crap. Thats how the world is. I love the new killmails, I dont care much for FW mostly because of roleplayer orgs and their agendas but other wise i think its a good thing they re-vamped it. And yes the new bombers are awesome. But like i already said a 100 good jobs, that a boys keep up the good work can be undone by 1 WTF is this crap, what was you thinking trying this and so on... Its human nature to go after the bad until its fixed or until its known not to try again.
Honestly im sure this inventory system would have been warmly welcomed as the the personal assets instead of inventory. And it would have been more than likely easier to work out the bugs and figure out how to retain all the functionality that the previous inventory system already had. |
|
Max Gades
The 8th Tribe Seraphim Dragoons.
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 19:19:00 -
[171] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Ribikoka wrote:So, in this devblog, we just got another apology and promises just like the old one. Someone remember the old promises ? So many promises and fast forgive and forget. http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2672"Red flags raised by very smart people both at CCP and in the community went unheeded because of my stubborn refusal to allow adversity to gain purchase on our plans." -Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson, CEO "The greatest lesson for me is the realization that EVE belongs to you, and we at CCP are just the hosts of your experience." -Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson, CEO Well, but now they're not going to do it never again unless they do it again. On the positive side, nobody is talking about the new wardec system, the allies system, the mercenay marketplace nor any of the war-related stuff in Inferno.
Its because everyone likes it and has nothing to complain about. and the ones that dont like it are few and far in between. |
JoeBear770
Faster Muffins
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 19:19:00 -
[172] - Quote
How about this "I can right-click my orca in station to open the ship maintenance bay".....where did that option go, and why was it removed? I want to be able to get the old functionality back, you have actually reduced options in this new patch and made the game more cumbersome. Please spend some time looking at other games interfaces and stop trying to make Eve "Win7 in space." It doesn't need to be a game of spreadsheets, it should be a game of spaceships where we can pew pew and blow stuff up. My 2 cents. |
Dennie Fleetfoot
EVE University Ivy League
143
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 19:19:00 -
[173] - Quote
Ad'Hakim Tahous wrote:1Of9 wrote:alittlebirdy wrote:Are you people this ******* stupid ROLL IT BACK THATS THE FIX.
and I WANT SOUNDWAVE FIRED
TONS of people looking for jobs LETS GET ONES WHO CAN DO THE JOB WELL. This. I want soundwave head aswell.. this is absurdly stupid. Hello 1of9: It is CCP Optimal and CCP Arrow who gave us this mess. Soundwave's been called in to limit the damage and do what's possible to fix the mess. Fingers crossed for a rollback.
Indeed. Soundwave is not to blame as such. But because others have so monumentally screwed up, it's been escalated to him to sort it out as he's one of the top guys at CCP. It's like complaining to a shop and asking to speak to he manager if the assistant is proving unhelpful. The assistants are named above, they thought this would work (it doesn't).
Having met Soundwave at Fanfest I know him to as passionate about the game as we are and am confident of a resolution. Have mistakes been made? Many. But asking for the head of the guy that's here to sort out other peoples mistakes seems harsh.
Would I prefer a roll-back to the old one? Hell yeah. Am I annoyed that the feedback that myself and many others gave on the test server forums was seemingly ignored ? I'm furious. Do I like everything else about inferno? I love it.
It's just a shame that the one thing they balls up with it is such a fundamental aspect to the game, how we interact with it.
They're on board now. They're working to fix it. We'll prod them with sharp sticks every now and again to keep them on their toes.
That said, I would like to hear from Arrow and Optimal, not for an apology as such but a full breakdown of the design rational for Unifubared Inventory and why they mistakenly believed it would work for all windows rather than just assets, which is where it should be left because there some good points for it in that context. |
Gizan
Hounds Of War WHY so Seri0Us
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 19:22:00 -
[174] - Quote
GIVE US THE OLD INVINTORY SYSTEM BACK!!!!!! |
Max Gades
The 8th Tribe Seraphim Dragoons.
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 19:32:00 -
[175] - Quote
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:Ad'Hakim Tahous wrote:1Of9 wrote:alittlebirdy wrote:Are you people this ******* stupid ROLL IT BACK THATS THE FIX.
and I WANT SOUNDWAVE FIRED
TONS of people looking for jobs LETS GET ONES WHO CAN DO THE JOB WELL. This. I want soundwave head aswell.. this is absurdly stupid. Hello 1of9: It is CCP Optimal and CCP Arrow who gave us this mess. Soundwave's been called in to limit the damage and do what's possible to fix the mess. Fingers crossed for a rollback. Indeed. Soundwave is not to blame as such. But because others have so monumentally screwed up, it's been escalated to him to sort it out as he's one of the top guys at CCP. It's like complaining to a shop and asking to speak to he manager if the assistant is proving unhelpful. The assistants are named above, they thought this would work (it doesn't). Having met Soundwave at Fanfest I know him to as passionate about the game as we are and am confident of a resolution. Have mistakes been made? Many. But asking for the head of the guy that's here to sort out other peoples mistakes seems harsh. Would I prefer a roll-back to the old one? Hell yeah. Am I annoyed that the feedback that myself and many others gave on the test server forums was seemingly ignored ? I'm furious. Do I like everything else about inferno? I love it. It's just a shame that the one thing they balls up with it is such a fundamental aspect to the game, how we interact with it. They're on board now. They're working to fix it. We'll prod them with sharp sticks every now and again to keep them on their toes. That said, I would like to hear from Arrow and Optimal, not for an apology as such but a full breakdown of the design rational for Unifubared Inventory and why they mistakenly believed it would work for all windows rather than just assets, which is where it should be left because there some good points for it in that context.
Agreed on the Assets. There are plenty of good things about it but if i was a new player and i saw the whole tree model for my station inventory I'd probably just stop right there.
Honestly this tree system makes me feel like im back in the marine corps trying to deal with supply's S***Y @$$ tracking system for parts and inventory when i had to deal with them and how it keep crashing and getting overwriten by them when I wanted it to stay saved after everyone imputs we're done and everything was how it was suppost to be.
No one wants to feel like they are at work while playing a MMO and unfortantly those of us that run corps and alliances or are diplos and have any sort of leadership resposibiltys pretty much feel this is as a 2nd job.
Stop tying to be like WoW and every other mmo, Stop nerfing every income to push people to buy plex to have isk in game (because its a player driven world and someone has to make all the crap and mine mins to build it) And maybe put eve trailers in the US and the game will more than likely grow a bit faster. Try listening to the testers on sisi... If there 30 pages of negative feedback maybe you shouldnt roll something out with the patch just to meet deadline and just fix it as you go and hope the player base doesnt want to burn you till the next patch. |
Sturmwolke
201
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 19:40:00 -
[176] - Quote
The fix for looting per blog does not cover an old use case where you can cherry pick mods/loot from multiple containers. The tree view is ill designed for such cases (where it sucks too much vertical screen real estate) and the drag-drop is much more clunkier as you have to be more precise with the mouse movement. Inventory movements which require precision mouse control is a BIG turn off.
You still have some fundamental design flaws/issues to fix. Will comment more once Tue update hits TQ (if there's anything to comment on).
|
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
621
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 19:40:00 -
[177] - Quote
why change it in the first place... the only thing i like about the unified inventory thing is it estimates the market price of my items, though its usually wrong the rough estimate is nice. |
N3LLY
MUNKI.MINERS.INC
43
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 19:45:00 -
[178] - Quote
NO GOOD ENOUGH GET RID thats what 90% want you to do
why can you not understand this ????????????????????????????????????????? UI IS CRAP GET RID AS SOON AS POSSIBLE P.S. CAN I GET A REFUND FOR LOST GAME TIME ?
|
cuculet
Bearing Srl.
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 20:03:00 -
[179] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:they say nothing cose we are probly testing an ui code that will be used for other CCP games as well; that three looking inventory will go very well with a console game, don't you think: " two games, one universe, one currency ..." and one inventory system i may addYour figures are off dude. The majority of this expansion was quality work put out that got over shadowed by something you interface with frequently. The new UI enhancements to the war system, killmails, LP. The new bombers and all the hours put into updating the Amarr ships (weather you like them or not doesn't matter, there was a lot of time put into it). Missile effects and the change to the War Mechanics as well as low sec re-vamp and faction warfare. This was an overall successful expansion that got shat on by one poorly written component. CCP Soundwave's candor on this should thanked and you should be happy that they're communicating to us so frequently which pales in comparison to the debacle that went on last year where we waited weeks for feedback.
can you read, dude? where did i sayd something about killmails/lp/war/bombers???! let me put it simple for you: i was talking about the UNITED INVENTORY crap
|
Par'Gellen
48
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 20:05:00 -
[180] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Yep, absolutely. Getting this into a state where you guys like it is the first priority right now. Thank you. Here is a screenshot of what I need my station windows to do. Please consider this. I beg you.
http://www.neoncranium.com/inventory.jpg To err is human, but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
|
N3LLY
MUNKI.MINERS.INC
45
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 20:31:00 -
[181] - Quote
N3LLY wrote:NO GOOD ENOUGH GET RID thats what 90% want you to do
why can you not understand this ?????????????????????????????????????????
i want my station back i want my looting windows back
i dont want the tree, i dont want estimated values,i dont want the search window, i want my muliple windows,i want my ship and cargo windows in station, I WANT TO CLICK AND OPEN A FIGIN CONTAINER AND IT OPENS IT IN A NEW FRIGGIN WINDOW why the hell should i press shift & click i want to be able to salvage in peace
for gods sake ROLL BACK UI IS CRAP GET RID AS SOON AS POSSIBLE P.S. CAN I GET A REFUND FOR LOST GAME TIME ?
|
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 20:37:00 -
[182] - Quote
CCP Soundwave,
I agree that with just these fixes, the new UI won't yet be as efficient as the old one. But I also realize that going back is unlikely and some kind of compromise must be reached. It's difficult to even try to be rational though as when I use the new UI I'm filled with so much wtf that I completely understand the frustrations being communicated in all these different ways.
For my part, the main issue is THAT it's all unified and I despise navigating that tree. God I hate squinting and scrolling up and down that tree. (If you ever make this optional, it goes without saying I will be tree-less.) But I guess I'll reserve final judgement until we get through a few rounds of fixes.
If you could at minimum compartmentalize some of the UI functions, so that the cargo hangar, ship hangar, and corp hangar open (from a single click on their old neocom buttons) in new windows with only divisions relevant to those locations, it would be a vast improvement. Please add these buttons back to the neocom. I miss one click functionality from a static button. Clicking on a corp hangar button (that doesn't exist atm) should open a new window with only the 7 hangar divisions listed in the tree. At least that makes sense. A static station hangar and ship hangar button could also open new windows only displaying that station's assets and ships located there in those trees.
It's the all in one, scroll through everything, click fest that's got many annoyed. I don't want a corp hangar filter. I want the corp hangar to be a specific location with only the corp hangar in that location. I want to only see ships in my ship hangar. It's like these places don't exist anymore with all items being treated equally. Some people need to see both source and destination to enjoy the game. With everything in one interface the source is the destination. It's a poor concept.
Making windows remember their size and position, and addressing lag is important, but maybe if we could make opening the most-frequently accessed locations more convenient, and minimize the scrolling, it wouldn't take as long to adapt.
I promise that once this UI thing is done, I'll post positive feedback on other new features. But at the moment, it's difficult to even care about those. I can see shiny stuff on a table across a field, but the field is on fire and boobytrapped. Put it out!
At the end of the day, the solution is going to be to de-unifiy the unified inventory - even if its just a little - which means the concept was flawed from the start.
CCP declared war against multiple windows. I hope you're seeing that we sorta liked those and now you've given us an interface that makes creating them more difficult.
Thanks again for the interaction and feedback.
Yonis Kador |
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
159
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 20:48:00 -
[183] - Quote
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:
Edited for brevity by Ad'Hakim
That said, I would like to hear from Arrow and Optimal, not for an apology as such but a full breakdown of the design rational for Unifubared Inventory and why they mistakenly believed it would work for all windows rather than just assets, which is where it should be left because there some good points for it in that context.
+1 for your post but for this section. Last few communications from those two gents (hereafter known as The Dynamic Duo) have made me want to smash my head into the table.
Soundwave's on the job, & I for when much prefer hearing from him!
I very much doubt that you'll ever see that '... full breakdown...' in any Threadnaught or Blog. Most likely that explanation has been delivered within CCP in response to senior management's query to the Dynamic Duo...
"WTF?" |
Andrea Roche
State War Academy Caldari State
85
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 20:49:00 -
[184] - Quote
i must say. I do not like this new UI with cargo hold etc. I feel its not user friendly at all among with what many others said. I much rather you left it the old way. I specilly dislike most how it feel in a station when switching ships. I find this part most disturbing and anoying. But i must say I am very happy that CCP has decided to tackle this issue imidiately. Many thx CCP |
Lordess Trader
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 20:56:00 -
[185] - Quote
ok but still no word on the shortcuts to minimized windows on the neocom / right click?!?! |
General Disdane
Animosity-guild The Brotherhood.
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 21:03:00 -
[186] - Quote
Weekly fixes until everyone is happy with the new system? This is why I love you guys. |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown
205
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 21:09:00 -
[187] - Quote
Two step wrote:I appreciate the greatly increased communications on this issue. It is good to see CCP keeping the players up to date with what they are working on. The CSM is late to this party. You guys are quite frankly, as useless as tiits on a bull. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
342
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 21:11:00 -
[188] - Quote
General Disdane wrote:Weekly fixes until everyone is happy with the new system? This is why I love you guys.
right so this will be a finished feature when the winter expansion rolls out?
seriously ccp you guys have pulled better features then this from deployment because you were not happy with them...
why on g-ds green earth would you roll out this UI with knowledge that it was not even 50% done?
i personally like the idea of the new UI i just wished it was finished on sisi before going live... PLEX FOR PIZZA!
TECH iii MINNING SHIPS! |
Courtie
The Grigorians Shattered Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 21:15:00 -
[189] - Quote
The old inventory was much better. I don't like the new "Tree" concept at all. Make an option to swap between the "Tree" and "Windows" inventory option. |
Dex Sudaka
Perkone Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 21:16:00 -
[190] - Quote
What can I say. I miss the practicality of the old UI. One thing I can't get used to is the order of the Index when you dock at a station. The TOP level should be the ITEMS hangar. Just as you click the ITEMS icon on the menu bar. It annoys me when menus don't display what the name says. I don't think the isk calculation of items is essential. That's why we have the view market details button right? too much info, too much lag. Ship hangar and Items hangar should not be unified. Each should have their icon on the manu bar as it was before. |
|
Chokichi Ozuwara
Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown
205
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 21:21:00 -
[191] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Yeah, the performance stuff is at the top of the list. A lot of performance increases on Tuesday. The problem isn't just performance, which is embarrassing and sad on its own.
The problem is that the new UI makes it very hard to do things we could do before. Like fit a ship quickly. Or pick loot from a can or wreck.
You guys have screwed up gameplay, and we want solutions to that. We want our gameplay back.
Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
|
CCP Optimal
C C P C C P Alliance
179
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 21:24:00 -
[192] - Quote
So you're basically saying that you didn't enjoy the new "Find a corpmate" minigame?
But yeah, that's fixed now as well.
Mr PrimaX wrote:Good changes/fixes +1
I guess we get members hangars in alphabetical order in the patch after this one ?
|
|
Seloena
Mighty Orca Inc
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 21:33:00 -
[193] - Quote
What about 'remember multi open windows'?
I want to have my ship hangar and deliveries window to be ALWAYS opened after i dock the station. Before new inventory i was able to see fast if something new came to the deliveries. Now I must check it manually from time to time. This is horrible!
Same thing is for ship window. It **** me off when it disappear all the time!
The new inventory is quite good, but some things really, really are pissing off players. |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
287
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 21:36:00 -
[194] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:So you're basically saying that you didn't enjoy the new "Find a corpmate" minigame? But yeah, that's fixed now as well. Mr PrimaX wrote:Good changes/fixes +1
I guess we get members hangars in alphabetical order in the patch after this one ? Yay an Optimal post |
Lord Loco
LOCO TRUST
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 21:40:00 -
[195] - Quote
@optimal
I and many other player will be able to use the inventory without use the tree. Are you make this possible or not? |
Blue Harrier
96
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 21:40:00 -
[196] - Quote
Well Soundwave nice to see you on damage control again, good luck with that, you need it.
So, let me get this straight, your DevGÇÖs took a fully working multiple opening window UI system and on a whim, without consulting anyone, changed it for a single window unified inventory system. The original layout and working system having received perhaps 1 complaint a month and most of them about nothing specific, just GÇÿwe donGÇÖt like itGÇÖ or GÇÿit should be updatedGÇÖ.
Now after thousands of complaints the coders who designed this new UI are hiding behind you and working to turn it back into the same system we had before but with reduced simplicity?
Why?
There is an old saying in my location; GÇÿYou canGÇÖt make a silk purse from a sowGÇÖs earGÇÖ well guys you didnGÇÖt try with just the ear, you used the whole damn pig.
I wont GÇÿrage quitGÇÖ but I shall put my accounts on hold and considering I was so pleased with the game early this year I started my second account after playing for over 3 years with just one, I now wonder why.
This UI does not need polish, it needs putting to sleep.
"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
342
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 21:41:00 -
[197] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:So you're basically saying that you didn't enjoy the new "Find a corpmate" minigame?
that put a smile on my face... its good to keep ones humor... PLEX FOR PIZZA!
TECH iii MINNING SHIPS! |
RC Denton
Wages Of Sin
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 21:42:00 -
[198] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:CCP Phantom wrote:The reception of the Unified Inventory seems to be somewhat less than perfect as some of the functionality is not in the state as it should be. We are listening carefully to your good and welcome feedback and treat it serious. Without further ado, let me present a Sunday devblog by CCP Soundwave about the first round of Unified Inventory improvements, read all about these changes here. Please use this thread for feedback, thank you. That's a diplomatic way of putting it. Nice to see you treating it seriously and taking fast action to rectify the imperfections. Yep, absolutely. Getting this into a state where you guys like it is the first priority right now. I've got one for you, ships that are repackaged don't show in the tree view. So you have to know it's there or open the ship hangar directly to see it which is a pain.
I'd say split ships and items like they were, or just roll it back to the old system for now. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
342
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 21:44:00 -
[199] - Quote
Lord Loco wrote:@optimal
I and many other player will be able to use the inventory without use the tree. Are you make this possible or not?
dont you need the tree now since they disabled certain features like right click on your ship?
pro tip improvement... make the tree built into the neocom and make it so if you click on something it opens a new window... and make it so if you undock the existing windows will stay put so that the next time you dock they are still open...
the tree can be useful if you can customize it... but having one unified window is a BAD BAD BAD idea... PLEX FOR PIZZA!
TECH iii MINNING SHIPS! |
Dawnmist
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 22:02:00 -
[200] - Quote
1 account went already and when this one expires tomorrow it is -2.
See you when inventory is fixed and nice reactivation offer with apology drops from the mailbox. |
|
Tork Norand
Mechanical Eagles Inc. The Ancients.
114
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 22:09:00 -
[201] - Quote
I'm traveling so I may have missed this since I'm not going to read all the posts...but here's one thing that I saw that was annoying as hell.
I'm at a POS. All weapons systems, etc are listed....but they aren't all within range.
I would LOVE to have all "out of openable" range items separated out so that I know that I cannot open them...And as I move around, the ones that come into and out of range would update (just like they do on the overview).
Sorting by distance makes sense to me....so leave that as an option. There's no reason that something out of range should push a corp hangar further down a long list of things that I can open.
It'd be great if renaming structures like corp hangars actually worked too....then we could pick which of them we wanted to open from the Unified Inventory list.
Just sayin'.
--Tork. CEO and Herder of Cats. |
Marisol Shimaya
Artic Circle The I.D.E.A.
55
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 22:34:00 -
[202] - Quote
Quote:this week in the unified inventory reported by CCP Soundwave | 2012.05.27 12:41:46 | NEW | Comments
Hello Spacefriends
As mentioned previously, we are not at all happy with the state of the unified inventory. To everyone that is currently struggling with it, you have my apologies.
As a remedy, weGÇÖre going to try and provide you with weekly changes to it, until we get it into a state where youGÇÖre happy with it. Our first group of fixes will go out Tuesday, May 29th, and are as follows:
Looting: Cargo containers and wrecks will function the same. Having multiple wrecks or containers open should be easy to loot as you can just click GÇ£loot allGÇ¥ and it will automatically go to the next item on the list instead of your ships cargohold. There is an added performance increase as well. Ship Hangars: Your active ship will be displayed in the ship hangar. It was a bit confusing that it would disappear. All assembled ships will now be displayed, regardless of activity state. Ship Hangars: When you have a ship hangar open but switch ships, the hangars for the old ships will still be listed as GÇ£active shipGÇ¥. That has been corrected. Containers: Containers are sorted alphabetically. That makes a lot of sense. Performance: WeGÇÖve applied fixes that let you handle larger numbers of items more gracefully. It should be a great deal faster now. Performance: Handling large numbers of POS modules was extremely slow. That has been remedied and it should be back to pre-patch performance. Errors: Action failed messages would pop up if you had two cargoholds open and tried to open a third. This has been fixed as well. Corp Hangars: If a corporation has impounded items present in a station, directors will have a GÇ£release itemsGÇ¥ button which will give you access to the impounded assets.
ThatGÇÖs it for Tuesday, but we will not stop there. As soon as these improvements are published, we start working on the next round of changes. WeGÇÖll update what those are and when they go out shortly after.
Again, you guys have my deepest apologies for this situation. WeGÇÖll do whatever we can to rectify it. We're going to continue to take your valuable feedback and add it to the list of changes we want to make.
More changes are coming, I'll do another update on Tuesday (May 29th).
Soundwave
@Soundwave
You more than that you have to do and that is place back the Ship Hanger and Itmes Hanger were it should be and don't cross us again. Fight For Our Rights |
Dirch Passer
State War Academy Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 22:47:00 -
[203] - Quote
Okay, "I want the old UI back", "ROLLBACK NAO", "I want xxxx FIRED" etc. is getting old now. I'm fairly certain that every single employee at CCP got the message: this mess isn't good enough!. **** happened, and bad decisions were made. Speculating about CCP's internal decision process isn't really helpful in this context either. There are enough tinfoil hats around.
It's time to help moving in the right direction, even if you're boiling with rage and frustration.
Now, I may very well be wrong, but it seems to me that every time there's a major patch, some major bug regarding session change, rears its head. Could there be some old spaghetti-code, that needs a thorough check?
I also have a few suggestions.
1) I'd like to see the 'reprocess' and 'repackage' items on the context menu moved far apart. Not only are the two words slightly similar, they also both prompt a 'Are you sure?' dialog, which I doubt many people read after more than a few days into the game. You can imagine the frustration when you realize, you just clicked 'yes' to reprocess...
2) The journal starts blinking as soon as you accept a mission. My memory is bad, but not that bad. Instead, I think it would be more helpful, if the 'industry' button started blinking when a job was finished.
3) Would it be possible to merge the shortcuts for 'align' and 'approach', the same way as 'dock' and 'jump'? That would make it rather neat to have a row like 'a','s','d', and 'f' corresponding to the buttons on the 'Selected Item' window.
4) I would really like the ability to group weapons in the fitting window.
5) I believe someone else has suggested this earlier, but it would be really, really good to see the activated effects of modules, in the fitting window. In particular active hardeners.
6) Also related to the fitting window, it would be very cool to be able to see the actual distance, missiles can travel.
7) Although the idea of having an estimated value of selected items in inventory is good, showing a weighted average of the entire universe is not useful. If there was a way to select which regions that average would be based on, I think it might serve a purpose. I also think the information is sufficient in form of the pop-up. No need to use window space for that. |
Dell Piano
Astrowave Paper Tiger Coalition
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 22:49:00 -
[204] - Quote
Looting is much easier. Create a filter for the meta-lvl you want and apply it, click loot all an you got only the stuff you want and leave all the crap-loot in the wrecks. Thanks CCP Help is needed !! |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
175
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 22:51:00 -
[205] - Quote
Salpun wrote:CCP Optimal wrote:So you're basically saying that you didn't enjoy the new "Find a corpmate" minigame? But yeah, that's fixed now as well. Mr PrimaX wrote:Good changes/fixes +1
I guess we get members hangars in alphabetical order in the patch after this one ? Yay an Optimal post
Yes and more censored posts. Some CCP employees think about it, the bad inventory system would be fine, when they delete the posts which is say what crap their new inventory. So it's time to post some rage News to big MMO portals. :D |
Sunrise Omega
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 22:52:00 -
[206] - Quote
Aryth wrote: This character also has a lot of corporate hangers it can "see". My past experience with the "scanning" of hanger1, then hanger2 etc, leads me to believe the new UI is also looking into every hanger a char can see. We have some pretty large hangers. This is bad.
Which is a strong reason why the Alt-G (personal hangar) and Alt-N (ships) shortcuts should only open up tree views of just those locations - not everything that you can possibly access in the station.
By default, Alt-G should open up *only* the personal hangar and entries in the tree for containers in my personal hangar. No other elements should appear in that tree unless I drag them there from another window. And I should be able to r-click and remove those other locations from the tree and have it remembered.
That way, if you want Alt-G to give you everything in the station, you click Alt-G, it initially opens up as only your personal hangar, then you specifically tell it to add in things like other ships, the corp hangar, the member hangars and the market deliveries window. And if you decide you don't like that, you r-click remove those trees from your tree view.
|
Marisol Shimaya
Artic Circle The I.D.E.A.
55
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 22:54:00 -
[207] - Quote
Let see:
I can play not more than ca. 20 mins before it crash my eveclient or cluster
So CCP has to change it back to it was if I can play eve as I should play without the crashes. Fight For Our Rights |
Blasfeim
Viziam Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 23:00:00 -
[208] - Quote
Give me my inventory back im not interested in hearing about fixes to this junk Ui. CCP wanna be forgivin then roll it back and leave it alone.i hate this all in one window crap bad.I cant beleive you waste all that time when we had a great UI.Way to take a good thing and turn it to **** |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
175
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 23:02:00 -
[209] - Quote
Salpun wrote:CCP Optimal wrote:So you're basically saying that you didn't enjoy the new "Find a corpmate" minigame? But yeah, that's fixed now as well. Mr PrimaX wrote:Good changes/fixes +1
I guess we get members hangars in alphabetical order in the patch after this one ? Yay an Optimal post
Yes and more censored posts. Some CCP employees think about it, the bad inventory system would be fine, when they delete the posts which is say what crap their new inventory. So it's time to post some rage News to big MMO portals. :D
And create picture from clues! :D |
Haifisch Zahne
HZ Corp
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 23:09:00 -
[210] - Quote
Has CCP even once explained why they REFUSE to rollback this mess? Or, how about justify going forward with it?
Or, most importantly, why can't we have an option to switch to the old Inventory?
Seriously, it just doesn't do what we need now. We really, really, really want the option to have the old system. And, CCP's answer? WE GET NONE. Nothing, nada, zip. "Weekly fixes until you're happy." We were happy with the old system.
CCP, I think we are owed an explanation why we can't have an option to use the old Inventory. Don't you think so too, CCP?
I have mentioned in a previous post that there should be an option to make Unified Inventory into Assets, and restore the old Inventory. Whatever the outcome, CCP needs to explain WHY we can't have the old system back as an option, which it appears we just can't. |
|
|
CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1366
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 23:10:00 -
[211] - Quote
Off topic and non-constructive posts removed.
Please remember that this thread is to discuss the devblog in a constructive way. We know how much unhappiness and dissatisfaction was created, but to resolve this situation as fast as possible, it is necessary to have your posts right on the topic while being constructive. This way our developers can read in an efficiently way your feedback and do not need to spend unnecessary time filtering out off topic posts.
Thank you for your help! CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
|
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
176
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 23:15:00 -
[212] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Off topic and non-constructive posts removed.
Please remember that this thread is to discuss the devblog in a constructive way. We know how much unhappiness and dissatisfaction was created, but to resolve this situation as fast as possible, it is necessary to have your posts right on the topic while being constructive. This way our developers can read in an efficiently way your feedback and do not need to spend unnecessary time filtering out off topic posts.
Thank you for your help!
"We know how much unhappiness and dissatisfaction was created, but to resolve this situation as fast as possible"
Really ? If you guys want it fast and painfull, purge this crap inventory system from EVE. This is the smartest constructive way from fix your failures. |
Marisol Shimaya
Artic Circle The I.D.E.A.
56
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 23:18:00 -
[213] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Off topic and non-constructive posts removed.
Please remember that this thread is to discuss the devblog in a constructive way. We know how much unhappiness and dissatisfaction was created, but to resolve this situation as fast as possible, it is necessary to have your posts right on the topic while being constructive. This way our developers can read in an efficiently way your feedback and do not need to spend unnecessary time filtering out off topic posts.
Thank you for your help!
What are CCP going to do about the UI Inventory box we demands back ?
Tell us ! Fight For Our Rights |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
176
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 23:21:00 -
[214] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Off topic and non-constructive posts removed.
Please remember that this thread is to discuss the devblog in a constructive way. We know how much unhappiness and dissatisfaction was created, but to resolve this situation as fast as possible, it is necessary to have your posts right on the topic while being constructive. This way our developers can read in an efficiently way your feedback and do not need to spend unnecessary time filtering out off topic posts.
Thank you for your help!
"We know how much unhappiness and dissatisfaction was created, but to resolve this situation as fast as possible"
Really ? If you guys want it the fastest and painless way, purge this crap inventory system from EVE. This is the smartest constructive way from fix your failures. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 23:26:00 -
[215] - Quote
I will say it it again, its crap.. there
as for actual improvements..
when i drag and drop stuff into a container?ship?whatever, please make it so i can hover with my mouse over it for more then a microsecond before the window opens into that container instead. It is a HUGE pain when you have large shipments you need to destribute to various containers/ships of having to reopen the original container so many times. |
|
CCP Optimal
C C P C C P Alliance
183
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 23:32:00 -
[216] - Quote
I've not been able to be very active on the forums for the last couple of days simple because my time is better spent fixing defects as it is.
First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers. We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly.
Revamping a fundamental system, used by every single player, such as the inventory system so that it will fit every player's needs and expectations from day one is a tall order to say the least. There is probably no other system within EVE that is as multidimensional as the inventory and the use cases seem to be endless. The old system had not changed much at all and most of you veterans could probably operate it at lightning speeds blindfolded. Having to waste time re-learning basic things is annoying as hell and I get it. I've been there myself. I would be pretty furious if someone forced me to use a different Python editor, and it would probably slow me down tremendously for the first couple of days or even weeks. A fitting punishment for my crimes maybe?
THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. We identified the inventory as being one of the biggest violator and that's why we went on this journey (not because we like to spend Sunday afternoons on the EVE forums, lovely as they are, mind you!). A lot of things have changed in the world of user interfaces during the last 10 years, and I think it's safe to say that a game shipping with the old EVE inventory system EVE today would receive mixed reviews.
The old system had been brewing out in the wild for 9 years, but the new one for less than a week, so obviously it has not received the same amount of updates and fixes. We are, and will be working hard to make sure that no matter your profession in EVE, you will have an equally or faster way of doing what you need to do.
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Making it optional is also not optional (confusingly enough) as it would require us to maintain two systems side by side which would cause an exponential increase in code and interface complexity if we were to make a habit of it. It's not as simple or as good of an idea as it might seem at first.
One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it. When we do, people without exceptions ask for the old one back. Doing both is obviously impossible. There is still work to be done and work we shall. |
|
Marisol Shimaya
Artic Circle The I.D.E.A.
57
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 23:33:00 -
[217] - Quote
WTH deleted my post sucks Fight For Our Rights |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
178
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 23:35:00 -
[218] - Quote
Marisol Shimaya wrote:WTH deleted my post sucks
This ? :P
What are CCP going to do about the UI Inventory box we demands back ?
Tell us !
|
Marisol Shimaya
Artic Circle The I.D.E.A.
57
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 23:39:00 -
[219] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:I've not been able to be very active on the forums for the last couple of days simple because my time is better spent fixing defects as it is.
First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers. We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly.
Revamping a fundamental system, used by every single player, such as the inventory system so that it will fit every player's needs and expectations from day one is a tall order to say the least. There is probably no other system within EVE that is as multidimensional as the inventory and the use cases seem to be endless. The old system had not changed much at all and most of you veterans could probably operate it at lightning speeds blindfolded. Having to waste time re-learning basic things is annoying as hell and I get it. I've been there myself. I would be pretty furious if someone forced me to use a different Python editor, and it would probably slow me down tremendously for the first couple of days or even weeks. A fitting punishment for my crimes maybe?
THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. We identified the inventory as being one of the biggest violator and that's why we went on this journey (not because we like to spend Sunday afternoons on the EVE forums, lovely as they are, mind you!). A lot of things have changed in the world of user interfaces during the last 10 years, and I think it's safe to say that a game shipping with the old EVE inventory system EVE today would receive mixed reviews.
The old system had been brewing out in the wild for 9 years, but the new one for less than a week, so obviously it has not received the same amount of updates and fixes. We are, and will be working hard to make sure that no matter your profession in EVE, you will have an equally or faster way of doing what you need to do.
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Making it optional is also not optional (confusingly enough) as it would require us to maintain two systems side by side which would cause an exponential increase in code and interface complexity if we were to make a habit of it. It's not as simple or as good of an idea as it might seem at first.
One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it. When we do, people without exceptions ask for the old one back. Doing both is obviously impossible. There is still work to be done and work we shall.
My eve client crashes all the time when i use the UI inventory box and it's anoying and I wants to play eve and that's is the most of the problems CCP done for me.
Fight For Our Rights |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
287
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 23:40:00 -
[220] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:I've not been able to be very active on the forums for the last couple of days simple because my time is better spent fixing defects as it is.
First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers. We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly.
Revamping a fundamental system, used by every single player, such as the inventory system so that it will fit every player's needs and expectations from day one is a tall order to say the least. There is probably no other system within EVE that is as multidimensional as the inventory and the use cases seem to be endless. The old system had not changed much at all and most of you veterans could probably operate it at lightning speeds blindfolded. Having to waste time re-learning basic things is annoying as hell and I get it. I've been there myself. I would be pretty furious if someone forced me to use a different Python editor, and it would probably slow me down tremendously for the first couple of days or even weeks. A fitting punishment for my crimes maybe?
THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. We identified the inventory as being one of the biggest violator and that's why we went on this journey (not because we like to spend Sunday afternoons on the EVE forums, lovely as they are, mind you!). A lot of things have changed in the world of user interfaces during the last 10 years, and I think it's safe to say that a game shipping with the old EVE inventory system EVE today would receive mixed reviews.
The old system had been brewing out in the wild for 9 years, but the new one for less than a week, so obviously it has not received the same amount of updates and fixes. We are, and will be working hard to make sure that no matter your profession in EVE, you will have an equally or faster way of doing what you need to do.
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Making it optional is also not optional (confusingly enough) as it would require us to maintain two systems side by side which would cause an exponential increase in code and interface complexity if we were to make a habit of it. It's not as simple or as good of an idea as it might seem at first.
One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it. When we do, people without exceptions ask for the old one back. Doing both is obviously impossible. There is still work to be done and work we shall. What is the best way in your view to simplify the creation of windows where we want them? If you do that you will make the Inventory system better if not people are still going to fight. Stickyness of windows is better now but still not perfect.
I always saw it as a accessablity issue with the old system not that there was to many. |
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cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers Ignore This.
55
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 23:50:00 -
[221] - Quote
I honestly dont get you guys. CCP as a games developer has to be the single strangest and most counter-intuitive company on the planet.
There are many many reasons and many things that you have done. This Unified inventory is a snap shot of why your game will eventually go to the gutter if you carry on.
Put simply, what possesed you to 'fix' something that wasnt broken? Out of all of the problems , all of the issues people have with the game you guys pick the one system that worked just fine. I agree that EVE`s interface is very old and very bad but it worked. If you want to make eves ui better the whole thing needs to be tore apart. Have the UI like you do in your videos. Thats something you guys have mentioned before that you will never ever do.
Dont get us wrong, we DO want improved shineys. Just not when the price is total functionality loss.
Come on guys you had SO much feedback on the test server forums, people like Zagdul, Tippia and others spent a lot of time documenting real basic issues. Why was the many pages of advice and feedback ignored?
Dont say you didnt ignore it as you DID plain and simple.
Final toughts - Im personally happy you are looking into this. I am hoping the UI will eventually be just as good if not better than the old system. Just wish you guys didnt allways rush to get half baked projects out like you lifes depend on it... lol Ignore This.-á "Were not elitists, were just tired of fail" - The Sorn |
Untouchable Heart
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 23:55:00 -
[222] - Quote
"I beg you to honestly give the new system a try."
Again, we dont want to try a half finished alpha state crap. Try it with testers on Sisi. We are the customers who pay for this game, we spend our moneys to your pocket.
When finished your job with inventory bring back. Dont test on playerbase the useless "Unfinised Inventory " fiasco. |
Jonuts
The Arrow Project CORE.
86
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 23:57:00 -
[223] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Making it optional is also not optional (confusingly enough) as it would require us to maintain two systems side by side which would cause an exponential increase in code and interface complexity if we were to make a habit of it. It's not as simple or as good of an idea as it might seem at first.
Alright. In a nutshell, once the absurd performance issues are resolved, give me back my ******* buttons for my neocom and let me never see that ugly ass tree again, never have to USE it again, ever. For any task. EVER. Problem solved for me. The entire concept is a pain in the ass to use. Make it emulate old functionality 100% in look, feel, and use. Hell, all those bells and whistles? Make them modular, so I can open up my options menu and untick garbage that's just cluttering my screen.
Also, in the future, refrain from breaking your ******* game by shipping a product that your user base neither wants nor needs. Especially when everyone using it on the test server tells you not to deploy it because it breaks the game.
Also, don't make stupid updates that are impossible to revert. Are you ******* ********?
Also, think of how much better your weekend would be if you weren't so absolutely committed to shipping incomplete garbage to the live server. |
Cloned S0ul
Blood Fanatics
58
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 00:00:00 -
[224] - Quote
Hi Devs.
Since EvE exist no one mention your old inventory system because it was so natural and perfect to players like no other things in game, every player just adapt to this like child after born adapt to mother, it was like first taste of mother milk - you taste it you like it- is natural, no need to thinking about this no need mention this and no needs to fix it.
The most simple and best thing in game that you create was old inventory system, it was so natural that everyone even newbi, who start own EvE adventure in rooki system, adapt to it after first look and touch.
My question to you CCP, why you change best working mechanism in game ?
Ps.While we old players can deal with your new full of wired mechanic inventory im 100% sure newbis need spent more time to discovery how it works... Why you bring chaos to game ? |
Sunrise Omega
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 00:05:00 -
[225] - Quote
I'm not real fond of the "My Filters" area, I don't find that to be terribly useful yet.
The use case that I do care about is where you're out at a POS array, with half a dozen or a dozen labs/arrays within reach and the inefficiency of the new system at getting you to the right hangar division within the lab/array.
Under the old system, whichever hangar division that you last opened a container to (corp hangar, POS array/lab) was the default division that any new containers would open up to. The new UI, it doesn't remember this and constantly defaults to opening up to the first hangar division. Which is doubly annoying if you shift-click on the "open" button on the overview UI to open up the lab/array in a new window. Because not only will the new window open up to the wrong division, but it also opens up with the tree collapsed.
1. The system needs to remember which hangar I've opened last and default new containers with hangar divisions to also open up to that division.
2. The tree pane needs a quick-filter box, just like containers, up top in the rectangle labeled "Index" so I can type in letters like "Manuf", which will filter the tree down so that only divisions / cans / ships with "Manuf" in the name are displayed.
#2 would also make it much faster to find a particular member hangar in the list of member hangars.
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Jed Clampett
The Order Of Viision
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 00:10:00 -
[226] - Quote
managing mining jetcans and other continuous flows of container updates is confusing and difficult to predict which windows will get updated.
I suspect the reason is that the tree view of contaniers retains control of container focus -- and does not necessarily update that focus when individual windows are selected especially contents only views.
That is reliable operation of new UI REQUIRES users to use tree view to update all visible windows with accuracy. This is not handy. It steals functionality from one button operations like open cargo...since you can't 100% tell which windows or windows will update.
|
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CCP Optimal
C C P C C P Alliance
187
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 00:14:00 -
[227] - Quote
I can certainly agree that there are systems within EVE much more broken than the old inventory, but you have to weight in that inventory is something used by everyone, so it might make sense to start there and do, for example, the corp window later as it's only used by a portion of the players even though it's way more messed up.
We did not ignore feedback at all. In some cases we didn't agree. In some cases we did agree and made changes. In some cases we felt that players weren't even giving the new proposed way of doing things a chance and that it might just be a matter of getting used to. It's certain that we didn't get everything right the first time around. That's why we have iteration.
cBOLTSON wrote:I honestly dont get you guys. CCP as a games developer has to be the single strangest and most counter-intuitive company on the planet.
There are many many reasons and many things that you have done. This Unified inventory is a snap shot of why your game will eventually go to the gutter if you carry on.
Put simply, what possesed you to 'fix' something that wasnt broken? Out of all of the problems , all of the issues people have with the game you guys pick the one system that worked just fine. I agree that EVE`s interface is very old and very bad but it worked. If you want to make eves ui better the whole thing needs to be tore apart. Have the UI like you do in your videos. Thats something you guys have mentioned before that you will never ever do.
Dont get us wrong, we DO want improved shineys. Just not when the price is total functionality loss.
Come on guys you had SO much feedback on the test server forums, people like Zagdul, Tippia and others spent a lot of time documenting real basic issues. Why was the many pages of advice and feedback ignored?
Dont say you didnt ignore it as you DID plain and simple.
Final toughts - Im personally happy you are looking into this. I am hoping the UI will eventually be just as good if not better than the old system. Just wish you guys didnt allways rush to get half baked projects out like you lifes depend on it... lol
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Dawnmist
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 00:24:00 -
[228] - Quote
Ok as the post deletion continues here we go again with more detailed version...
CCP Optimal wrote: First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers.
We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly.
"Few issues" is quite optimistic way to put it (and btw big issues did surface - you just ignored them) and no you didn't. You fixed some cosmetic stuff but avoided the primary ones (persistent windows anyone?) like plaque.
CCP Optimal wrote: Revamping a fundamental system, used by every single player, such as the inventory system so that it will fit every player's needs and expectations from day one is a tall order to say the least. There is probably no other system within EVE that is as multidimensional as the inventory and the use cases seem to be endless. The old system had not changed much at all and most of you veterans could probably operate it at lightning speeds blindfolded. Having to waste time re-learning basic things is annoying as hell and I get it. I've been there myself. I would be pretty furious if someone forced me to use a different Python editor, and it would probably slow me down tremendously for the first couple of days or even weeks. A fitting punishment for my crimes maybe?
No, you should get fired for doing such poor job and still trying to persuade yourself that it actually wasn't that bad as we "end users" say it is.
CCP Optimal wrote: THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. We identified the inventory as being one of the biggest violator and that's why we went on this journey (not because we like to spend Sunday afternoons on the EVE forums, lovely as they are, mind you!). A lot of things have changed in the world of user interfaces during the last 10 years, and I think it's safe to say that a game shipping with the old EVE inventory system EVE today would receive mixed reviews.
For the 1st part - really? We the end users would like to see such survey where your solution meets with our demands. For the last part - read reply to previous quote.
CCP Optimal wrote: The old system had been brewing out in the wild for 9 years, but the new one for less than a week, so obviously it has not received the same amount of updates and fixes. We are, and will be working hard to make sure that no matter your profession in EVE, you will have an equally or faster way of doing what you need to do.
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Making it optional is also not optional (confusingly enough) as it would require us to maintain two systems side by side which would cause an exponential increase in code and interface complexity if we were to make a habit of it. It's not as simple or as good of an idea as it might seem at first.
Live server where people pay to play the game is not place where you develop and update your awesome project. This is why I already stopped playing because of your actions.
I did give it a try in test server already. I left my feedback which was ignored. Now you can leave the begging to the reactivation apology email you will be sending to me with some lovely free game time to get me be your customer again (and that is after the inventory is fixed).
CCP Optimal wrote: One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it. When we do, people without exceptions ask for the old one back. Doing both is obviously impossible. There is still work to be done and work we shall.
[/quote]
You had choices; why did you postpone the release or why did you not release it as optional until it was clear that everyone will accept it? Red flags were high in the sky with this one and I can clearly see that very little, if none, player research and feedback were used while planning the project.
Now could you please stop deleting my posts. I'm not trolling and I'm being very constructive here. If that includes the fact that I want this guy fired - it doesn't automatically mean that you go and flag the post as garbage.
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Chokichi Ozuwara
Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown
209
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 00:26:00 -
[229] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:I can certainly agree that there are systems within EVE much more broken than the old inventory, but you have to weight in that inventory is something used by everyone, so it might make sense to start there and do, for example, the corp window later as it's only used by a portion of the players even though it's way more messed up. Does it ever occur to you that maybe when you monkey with something everyone uses, you risk a catastrophic clusterfrak? You guys released something that wasn't just poorly designed, but bug ridden to boot. This was sloppy rubbish all around.
CCP Optimal wrote:In some cases we didn't agree. You're making the game for us, not for yourselves.
CCP Optimal wrote:In some cases we felt that players weren't even giving the new proposed way of doing things a chance and that it might just be a matter of getting used to. It's not though. Any fool can tell you that in a sandbox game, flexibility in the interface is key. You removed that for everyone. You compromised people's habits developed over years of gameplay in one move.
You guys have so much hubris. You still think that we're wrong about what we want, and you know better.
CCP Optimal wrote:It's certain that we didn't get everything right the first time around. That's the understatement of 2012 mate.
CCP Optimal wrote:That's why we have iteration. On our dime, on our time. Thanks for that. I love paying to play a game that you want to monkey around with. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Qurg
Great Awakening
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 00:28:00 -
[230] - Quote
Aaarrrggh wrote:Hi,
I know CCP is trying hard to improve the game for everyone for which they should be applauded. However I don't think they are getting the message on this one. A lot of people (myself included) REALLY liked the old inventory system and don't want it changed. Can we at least have an option to use the old system still.
I have left it a while before posting anything as I wanted to give the new system a fair trial but having done that I really can find a single aspect of the new system I preferred to the old system. Sorry guys but that's the way I find it. I doubt you will ever be able to improve the unified inventory to make it as useable as the old system. I think your wasting precious developement time on this. You would be better served doing another project.
I like to have separate ships/items folders. I like the containers to open in new windows when you double click them (and remember their last position) I dislike the extra space taken up by the top / bottom and side of the new system windows for info I'm not interested in If I need to find something I've lost I just use the assets window - its still quicker than the unified inventory
I have lots and lots of items in my inventory (perhaps thousands I'm not really sure) and I'm really struggling with this
Please give us the old system back and add the new system as an option - or vice versa
I concur. As a CEO, it's so much easier to do what needs to be done when you can look at all items in separate windows (Corp hangars, Orca hangars, carrier hangars, personal hangars and a cargohold). Allow us to decide how we want to view our inventory. Is that too much to ask? |
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Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
69
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 00:34:00 -
[231] - Quote
CCP Optimal,
Why we can't have it both ways?
No, I don't mean both the old inventory system and the new UI simultaneously. You say its impossible and I accept that. I mean why can't we still have our one-click neocom buttons opening in new windows specific to the task "and" have a tree-navigable, unified main window too? I'd prefer opening hangars to be a no-scrolling, one-click process (like it was) and to be their own unique locations again. (Had thought been given to accommodate both playstyles originally, no shock to the playerbase would have occurred.)
Doing it this way would still allow the massive (less vocal) hordes who approve of this change to enjoy it as is and the rest of us to still have one-click functionality and multiple windows for our drag and drop pleasure. It still should reduce the number of open windows at any given time, provided that the one-window-preference people exist and continue tree-navigation once they have a choice.
It can't be that difficult to put the corp hangar button back where it was and have it be a shortcut to an inventory window with only the 7 hangar divisions listed in the tree. Or to add neocom buttons back for the ship and station hangars with only relevant divisions in their respective trees. (On a completely asthetic note, these were parts of the station that are gone now. Their removal didn't just change gameplay. It changed the way we interact with the station. )
I just want to opt out of the tree however it has to happen even if its available. I'm gonna pop a blood vessel if I have to keep scrolling.
If a percentage of EVE prefers multi-window functionality and another group prefers a unified interface, asking either to learn the other's preference is going to generate negative feedback. It's difficult to believe that there are so many players who prefer all the scrolling and squinting I've been doing (my hat's off to them) compared to what we had. When dealing with divisive issues like this in the future, I'd like to see more emphasis placed on trying to cater to both.
So are these feasible ideas? They would get us closer to what we had and seem like easy fixes.
Yonis Kador
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Chokichi Ozuwara
Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown
209
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 00:37:00 -
[232] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly. Why?
CCP Optimal wrote:Revamping a fundamental system, used by every single player, such as the inventory system so that it will fit every player's needs and expectations from day one is a tall order to say the least. It is the sort of thing you should be aiming to get right before pushing it on 10s of thousands of regular users.
CCP Optimal wrote:I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. First, I have tried it. As have many other people. We're rejecting it. We're telling you that it is inferior to the old system.
I don't to spend my time testing your ideas, and giving you game feedback. I pay you to play, I do not get paid to test this game. Can you understand this?
Besides, even when we tell you what you are doing is wrong, you arrogantly ignore us, because we don't know what is good for the game. The people who pay to play.
Did you guys learn NOTHING from Incarna?
CCP Optimal wrote:One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it. When we do, people without exceptions ask for the old one back. Doing both is obviously impossible. There is still work to be done and work we shall. You still do not get it. The new UI is inferior. It isn't good. I do not know how else to explain to you, that you have stripped functionality out, and not added any new functionality into the system. This isn't a matter of us getting used to it, it is a matter of you imposing a system which is fundamentally wrong for this game. You could have made lots of cleanup and iteration to the old system, that didn't have to compromise the core usefulness of having multiple windows open at once.
Again, you don't want to hear feedback about this system that doesn't involve you being able to polish a turd. But a turd is a turd bro. You guys can polish it all day, but if we can't have a flexible UI for inventory, then you've screwed us. Period.
And frankly, I would appreciate if you would be honest about the fact that you're not doing this for us, because clearly we hate it. You're doing it because you guys refuse to rollback your own mistakes. And that's so frustrating, a lot of people are going to leave this game, myself included. We can handle a buggy game. We can handle server lag. But no one likes to be ignored, or treated like a child by the person they are paying. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
56
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 00:39:00 -
[233] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:
First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers. We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly.
I only really noticed a couple of things that were actually responded to, but still rather poorly, like you guys only added some code but didn't really try to use it, ever, in the process. And be honest, a majority of the issues that we have today WERE mentioned in nearly every single feedback threadnaught on the SiSi forum, they did surface, and you were made aware. You just said, 'well its change, regardless of how well it works.' (don't make me search those threadnaughts for the dev responses)
CCP Optimal wrote:
THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks.
I think you might not have used the proper terms, b/c yes, there are alot of windows needed to accomplish tasks, but not too many to manage/move items. Your statement makes me think the respondents were saying there are too many types of windows that need accessed; Industry, Market, Character Sheet, Skill Que, Wallet, Assests, Corp, ect...
As the general theme for the feedback for this Unfunctional Inventory seems to suggest, alot of ppl seem to like their 'too many' cargo-type windows. Am i wrong?
CCP Optimal wrote: The old system had been brewing out in the wild for 9 years, but the new one for less than a week, so obviously it has not received the same amount of updates and fixes. We are, and will be working hard to make sure that no matter your profession in EVE, you will have an equally or faster way of doing what you need to do.
Yes, but many of us on test server forums were screaming at you that this hot mess was not ready for TQ...or did you miss that? Did anyone who made this decision actually read Tippia's blog and watch the vid? B/c i only noticed you 'fixing' a very small portion of the issues that were raised on just that SINGULAR blog, let alone all the forum posts.
CCP Optimal wrote: I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so
Yeah, ON THE TEST SERVER FORUM!!! It reads something rather identical to current TQ feedback threads...amazing really.
CCP Optimal wrote: One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it. When we do, people without exceptions ask for the old one back. Doing both is obviously impossible. There is still work to be done and work we shall.
Are you talking about the User Interface, which yes, is being asked for constant small tweeks (better font/more clear/easier info), but i do NOT recall constantly seeing ppl having asked for you to completely overhaul the item management system.
All we are asking, is you put this huge mess of a thing that is still in Alpha-Test mode back onto SiSi, and rollback to the old system while you fix the issues that have been raised. It is the quickest and easiest way to resolve the issue and prevent even more un-subs (honestly sad my yearly just rolled over last month, so now i'm stuck, unless you give refunds)
^But that is assuming your pride can take the hit, which from this post, you seem to be dodging responsibility for pushing this out, despite the feedback, prove us wrong, post all the changes that you made to the SiSi build and then show us all the 'issues' that were raised before this went live, show us that it was 'only a few' issues that 'slipped'.
/rant
More feedback (again)
We need multiple windows that remember their state, content, and position between session changes. This needs to be persistant to both in-space and in-station. I don't like when i accidently 'close' the 'main' space window, then dock and have to fight to get the station version back out of my (not-so-active) ship cargo window.
Corp hangers, please returned to tabbed functionality, and remeber last used tab, this tree is uselessly slow and tiresome.
http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
Lord Loco
LOCO TRUST
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 00:40:00 -
[234] - Quote
Yonis Kador wrote:CCP Optimal,
Why we can't have it both ways?
No, I don't mean both the old inventory system and the new UI simultaneously. You say its impossible and I accept that. I mean why can't we still have our one-click neocom buttons opening in new windows specific to the task "and" have a tree-navigable, unified main window too? I'd prefer opening hangars to be a no-scrolling, one-click process (like it was) and to be their own unique locations again. (Had thought been given to accommodate both playstyles originally, no shock to the playerbase would have occurred.)
Doing it this way would still allow the massive (less vocal) hordes who approve of this change to enjoy it as is and the rest of us to still have one-click functionality and multiple windows for our drag and drop pleasure. It still should reduce the number of open windows at any given time, provided that the one-window-preference people exist and continue tree-navigation once they have a choice.
It can't be that difficult to put the corp hangar button back where it was and have it be a shortcut to an inventory window with only the 7 hangar divisions listed in the tree. Or to add neocom buttons back for the ship and station hangars with only relevant divisions in their respective trees. (On a completely asthetic note, these were parts of the station that are gone now. Their removal didn't just change gameplay. It changed the way we interact with the station. )
I just want to opt out of the tree however it has to happen even if its available. I'm gonna pop a blood vessel if I have to keep scrolling.
If a percentage of EVE prefers multi-window functionality and another group prefers a unified interface, asking either to learn the other's preference is going to generate negative feedback. It's difficult to believe that there are so many players who prefer all the scrolling and squinting I've been doing (my hat's off to them) compared to what we had. When dealing with divisive issues like this in the future, I'd like to see more emphasis placed on trying to cater to both.
So are these feasible ideas? They would get us closer to what we had and seem like easy fixes.
Yonis Kador
THIS is exactly what we need!
|
Chokichi Ozuwara
Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown
209
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 00:44:00 -
[235] - Quote
Yonis Kador wrote:I just want to opt out of the tree however it has to happen even if its available. I'm gonna pop a blood vessel if I have to keep scrolling. The tree is terrible. Try opening your inventory in a WH POS and quickly trying to locate your ship hangar so you can reship.
Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Jonuts
The Arrow Project CORE.
89
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 00:50:00 -
[236] - Quote
Quote: We did not ignore feedback at all. In some cases we didn't agree. In some cases we did agree and made changes. In some cases we felt that players weren't even giving the new proposed way of doing things a chance and that it might just be a matter of getting used to. It's certain that we didn't get everything right the first time around. That's why we have iteration.
You're right. It's totally our fault. We're all too ******* stupid to tell the difference between "This is different" and "This is garbage". I apologize. I didn't mean to offend your superior sensibilities. How dare us lowly people who actually have to USE this system criticize it. |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
760
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 00:50:00 -
[237] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:I can certainly agree that there are systems within EVE much more broken than the old inventory, but you have to weight in that inventory is something used by everyone, so it might make sense to start there and do, for example, the corp window later as it's only used by a portion of the players even though it's way more messed up.
We did not ignore feedback at all. In some cases we didn't agree. In some cases we did agree and made changes. In some cases we felt that players weren't even giving the new proposed way of doing things a chance and that it might just be a matter of getting used to. It's certain that we didn't get everything right the first time around. That's why we have iteration.
Dude, the community as a whole felt ignored. It's more than just releasing something you now need to apologize for, it's also the communication, or lack there of you guys need to own up to.
The inventory shouldn't have been touched until you were ready to re-vamp assets and integrate assets into the inventory system.
As it stands, the inventory system was a good thought concept that was poorly executed simply because not enough time was spent on it's development process. It's a half thought. Everything about it is.
Let me break down what I mean so it can be constructive:
Filter system.
Great concept! Yes it should be in EVE, however it's current state is not user friendly and there are simple iterations that could/should be added to it to make it polished for release.
1. Drag and drop for modules to be added to a filter, especially since there's been such a push for drag and drop on the market and everywhere else in EVE.
2. Sharable filters or even corp filters. We're playing Game of AltsGäó. This just seems basic that would need to be in before it was launched to the public. If drag and drop isn't there, creating a filter for one character is such a time consuming process that even if you do fix it down the road, people will only remember the cumbersome process and never use it due to always remembering how frustrating it was on release.
The Tree
Again, this definately needed to be in the game. Another good concept that should be in EVE, but not enough thought was put behind how it would effect people's day to day lives in the game. I'm glad it's being worked on, but let me go on to some things that (thankfully) have already been changed however, should never have gone live.
1. The tree should have right click menus for sorting/opening/collapsing etc. It should function closer to how the market trees work. It's far too easy to accidently click on the wrong tree and be lost forever.
2. Where's the "back" button!? I mean... um... yeah. Where is it?
3. POS's / Guns weren't put in as a separate item nor was range identified for something out of range. This also effected performance greatly.
4. Alphabetical ordering... no, really? To expand on this, there should be options on how to sort it. Very much how the inventory currently works. "Sort By:"
Removing of Commonly Used 'old' Shortcuts
You castrated people who do a lot of logistics. The ability to dock, right click my ship, open the fuel bay, click one button and open my corp hangar then go to a tab which holds whatever it is I'm moving quickly. Then, undock move those items to another station/corp hangar at a POS or w/e, open the corp hangar and have the same tab re-open.
This process is repeated in EVE so damn much and it was removed. No, really... This process is already frustrating enough.
This whole process needs fixing FAST! My corp has 100 POS's to run. We move almost over 30 mil m^3 worth of fuel, moon goo and minerals around a week. People who produce in this game repeat this process over and over and over.
If you can make anything a priority, it's this concept of being able to quickly access a corporate hangar and making the inventory remember which hangar I had open the last time I docked. It used to do this, it needs to be back.
Furthermore, the remembering of what was opened the last time you docked needs to come back. As I said at the beginning of this note, moving things requires docking and undocking frequently. The very elementary concept of the old inventory remembering what I had open and re-opening it, my fuel bay and inventory window so that I can:
Dock up > re-fuel > grab ~stuff~ fill cargo > un-dock > warp to pos > open corp hangar (and have the hangar I last had open, opened) > drop ~stuff~ off > rinse > repeat.
meh... this is all I have right now. The other thing that I keep harping on is in my sig and it's the dual pane idea.
http://i.imgur.com/j8Jyn.jpg <-- look, navigation. Two containers open, but in a single window.
A list of fixes for the new inventory
Dual Pane idea clicky |
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC Vanguard.
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 00:59:00 -
[238] - Quote
Olan Chang wrote:Let it go... The old system was a pain and is gone.
Wow we got sock puppets on EVE now too...
how much about the UI changes can a 19 day old toon know...
Of course they could be an alt of someone else which makes it even more likely they are a dev sock puppet |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
763
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 01:03:00 -
[239] - Quote
Krystyn wrote:Olan Chang wrote:Let it go... The old system was a pain and is gone. Wow we got sock puppets on EVE now too... how much about the UI changes can a 19 day old toon know... Of course they could be an alt of someone else which makes it even more likely they are a dev sock puppet
No, he's right. The old system was a pain. It needed fixing.
However the new system just wasn't ready for release. Had they waited, maybe even held off till the winter expansion. They would have had something that would have blown the socks off the community.
A list of fixes for the new inventory
Dual Pane idea clicky |
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 01:05:00 -
[240] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Yonis Kador wrote:I just want to opt out of the tree however it has to happen even if its available. I'm gonna pop a blood vessel if I have to keep scrolling. The tree is terrible. Try opening your inventory in a WH POS and quickly trying to locate your ship hangar so you can reship.
And what about the pos guns and other pos modules when i dont have access fro POS, but loading to my Cargo hold ? LOL |
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Anglique
Dark Quantum Singularity
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 01:06:00 -
[241] - Quote
I want to start out by saying that the devs have shown incredible restraint and patience on the forums. Thanks, guys! Many of my fellow posters could stand to learn a lesson here.
I'm also glad to see that you're working on the inventory system still. Here are a couple of my suggestions:
1. Add forward/back buttons to the interface UI, much like on the show info screen.
2. Add an option to open a new window by default or use shift to open in same window.
3. Please increase the ability to sort/filter/condense the modules in a pos as seen in the inventory screen. Ideally, I could collapse everything but corporate hanger arrays could be hidden or collapsed into their own tree, if desired.
4. Remember my favorite hangar tab. Currently it always defaults to the first accessible tab. In my case, its someone else's and I'm tired of giving away my sleeper loot!
5. Someone earlier mentioned that expanding or collapsing the tree view should not change the size of the area allocated for items. I second this.
6. I would like to see windows remember their size and position from where you open them. For example if you open your cargo hold it could open a smaller window with a hidden tree view, versus if you open a hangar it could be larger with a visible tree view.
I was going to mention speed, but it sounds like that's being addressed, as is alphabetical sorting in the tree view and naming of pos modules. Nice work!
All you whiners talking about unsubbing: the logs show nothing. |
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 01:11:00 -
[242] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Krystyn wrote:Olan Chang wrote:Let it go... The old system was a pain and is gone. Wow we got sock puppets on EVE now too... how much about the UI changes can a 19 day old toon know... Of course they could be an alt of someone else which makes it even more likely they are a dev sock puppet No, he's right. The old system was a pain. It needed fixing.
The old system wasn't pain, but this new treepanel it is. We need a single panel treeview filemanager for Eve ? Really ???
|
Cold Ethyl
Eskimo Pie Corp
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 01:14:00 -
[243] - Quote
Lord Loco wrote:dont polish a turd, give us back the old one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
^^^^THIS^^^^
Nuf said. |
Cold Ethyl
Eskimo Pie Corp
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 01:17:00 -
[244] - Quote
Panhead4411 wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:As mentioned previously, we are not at all happy with the state of the unified inventory. To everyone that is currently struggling with it, you have my apologies. Then WHY in the name of all that is good did you ignore ALL of the bad feedback telling you it was not ready from nearly every user on SiSi and go ahead and put it on TQ??? Just tell us this. Please. And.. CCP Soundwave wrote: Yep, absolutely. Getting this into a state where you guys like it is the first priority right now.
Why wasn't this your 'first priority' before while it was on SiSi?
^and THIS^
I know Panhead4411 and I are not alone in wanting to hear the answer to these questions. Well?
|
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
764
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 01:22:00 -
[245] - Quote
TravelBuoy wrote:Zagdul wrote:Krystyn wrote:Olan Chang wrote:Let it go... The old system was a pain and is gone. Wow we got sock puppets on EVE now too... how much about the UI changes can a 19 day old toon know... Of course they could be an alt of someone else which makes it even more likely they are a dev sock puppet No, he's right. The old system was a pain. It needed fixing. The old system wasn't pain, but this new treepanel it is. We need a single panel treeview filemanager for Eve ? Really ???
The point you're missing is that the new system ~could~ have been awesome, helpful and good.
It wasn't on release and now we're all caught up in it's development instead of it being done on a test server, with community feedback and proper development cycles and... testing.
A list of fixes for the new inventory
Dual Pane idea clicky |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown
215
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 01:30:00 -
[246] - Quote
TravelBuoy wrote:And what about the pos guns and other pos modules when i dont have access fro POS, but loading to my Cargo hold ? LOL Don't tell CCP Optimal that. He thinks you just need to use it more to get used to waiting 2 minutes in order to see the crowded and useless display of non-essential information that hinders your ability to get where you need to be while your corpmates are dying on the battlefield. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown
215
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 01:36:00 -
[247] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:The point you're missing is that the new system ~could~ have been awesome, helpful and good. It could have been if they had spent a couple more months revamping and testing arguably the most fundamental system in the game. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
764
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 01:43:00 -
[248] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Zagdul wrote:The point you're missing is that the new system ~could~ have been awesome, helpful and good. It could have been if they had spent a couple more months revamping and testing arguably the most fundamental system in the game. Yes, thanks for quoting what I said and adding absolutely nothing of value to the discussion.
A list of fixes for the new inventory
Dual Pane idea clicky |
Sugar Kyle
The humbleless Crew Capital Punishment.
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 01:54:00 -
[249] - Quote
For all the extra info the new window gives us (cost, percentages, etc) maybe a more or less info arrow like under the fitting tool. One is just boarder, inventory and title and loot all (when applicable). The other is all the stuff now. It would allow us to have info choices in space. All the info is nice but not needed when I'm taking care of business with my serious internet spaceship. |
Kasriel
165
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 02:03:00 -
[250] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers. We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly.
that reads as if you knowingly pushed a feature live with bugs, is that correct?
CCP Optimal wrote:Revamping a fundamental system, used by every single player, such as the inventory system so that it will fit every player's needs and expectations from day one is a tall order to say the least.
indeed it is, and i don't blame you at all for trying it, but the simple fact is you could have avoided all of this drama if you simply made it optional instead of forcing it on people. remember change is not always good
CCP Optimal wrote:THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks.
sorry but in the 5+ years i've played this game i've seen perhaps two surveys, neither had anything at all to do with the UI which i had no complaints with at all - except for the way you guys had a habit of shuffling buttons around on the drop down menu after each patch.
Not to call you or anybody else at CCP a liar but could you please back this up? at least with details of when this survey took place, the sample size and how it was delivered (email, in game, petition feedback etc)
CCP Optimal wrote:I think it's safe to say that a game shipping with the old EVE inventory system EVE today would receive mixed reviews
sorry but.. what? you decided to take a customisable UI (as in you only had to open what you wanted, could put it anywhere you wanted any size you wanted) with very few bugs, pretty intuitive (i certainly never had an issue with it) and replace it with a system that people using windows 3.1 would feel at home with? are you insane? that's like saying i think that as cars have shipped with seatbelts and ABS for the last 10 years we should do something different or we won't get good reviews, and then proceed to cut a hole out the bottom of the car for people to stop the car Flintstones style
CCP Optimal wrote:One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it.
seriously again i lurk on these forums all the time. i have never. not once seen a thread about how the inventory system sucks. so i'm going to ask for some sort of source for this.
and ok fine, old inventory no more, gotcha, EVE is unable to maintain two UIs - god knows why i won't get into that - but sure fine whatever, you don't even HAVE to
turn on a button that when checked? hides the tree view by default and puts buttons back on your bar/station, change the default behavior of clicking "access hanger" to open a new window and put a couple of drop down options back in when selected and guess what? there's your old UI
how. hard. is. that.
no two systems there? just a button that changes a bit of functionality.
but fine you want to know what it would take to get me to keep playing?
1 - get rid of the lag. all of it 2 - improve orca/carrier etc uses so that it actually makes SENSE 3 - improve salvage/looting to the point it's at the same level as the old one 4 - stop it from assuming the "undocked" window i took out for my ships hanger is the central window after i've closed said central window 5 - remove corp hanger it isn't MY inventory it's my corps. 6 - make packaged ships display in the drop down or remove the dropdown, one or the other, it needs to actually be consistant.
and most importantly
7 - do this **** on the test server not the live one and make a dev blog explaining just HOW it was justified delivering this thing live when the vast majority of feedback you were still getting on it the day before it went live was still negative.
|
|
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 02:05:00 -
[251] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:TravelBuoy wrote:Zagdul wrote:Krystyn wrote:Olan Chang wrote:Let it go... The old system was a pain and is gone. Wow we got sock puppets on EVE now too... how much about the UI changes can a 19 day old toon know... Of course they could be an alt of someone else which makes it even more likely they are a dev sock puppet No, he's right. The old system was a pain. It needed fixing. The old system wasn't pain, but this new treepanel it is. We need a single panel treeview filemanager for Eve ? Really ??? The point you're missing is that the new system ~could~ have been awesome, helpful and good. It wasn't on release and now we're all caught up in it's development instead of it being done on a test server, with community feedback and proper development cycles and... testing. EDIT: Imagine a system where, you search for something in a single search bar (similar to how windows works) and it opens up in a single window with it's location in an address bar or something. Something to where you have an intuitive in nature and fluid asset management and inventory system that is complete and functional. A system where folders and containers are no longer necessary. Or, when you have folders (containers) they too function with the inventory and asset manager. With more testing and development, this could have gone live! It would have been great! Instead, we now need to hear people, rightfully, frustrated about what they're now forced to use. EDIT2: The issue is that the development cycle was poorly managed. The old inventory system is (was) horrible. It needed work. The thing is, you got so used to it that you were able to put up with it's bulky interface. Step 1 should have been to modify and fix the asset management window. Integrate it within corp assets (so I don't need to go to two different places) and provide something in the asset management for filters and searches. THEN go for the new inventory system. they did it backwards.
Again, inventory system is not filemanager. Not needs tree panel. When i want to open my cargohold, i dont want to see another mixed things in my cargohold what messed with inventory. I dont want to use joypad for scrolling up or down. This iventory type is a console controller concept.
I dont want to see this : http://toastytech.com/guis/win31winfile.png
Other thing, without shift+click, the treepanel is not working fine. The user need to open another windows for handle their items. That's same method as the old inventory worked. Where is not just one windows was on screen. This is showing as, treepanel or single window on screen have bad functionalty, and dont working without old functions. Need multipanel or more windows. But when treepanel need old functions, why we need the treepanel ? The old function enough the tree panel is totally unnecessary. |
Tex Bloodhunter
Konstrukteure der Zukunft The Initiative.
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 02:08:00 -
[252] - Quote
One thing I liked most about the old system was the ability to have two item containers open in order to drag an drop from one place to the other. The important part here is that you just need two, not 20 item containers opened. With the new system you wanted to get closer to the way files are being moved around in any modern OS. EVERYBODY uses two windows in order to move stuff from A to B. That's why tools like midnight commander and Norton commander were built ... FTP tools, also feature two file explorers. In Windows you just use two explorer instances and so on. This is currently missing with EVE's unified inventory. You just need to make the last step in order to get new item management paradigm going. |
Seatox
Department of Defence Fatal Ascension
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 02:44:00 -
[253] - Quote
The new inventory system needs to be more unified with the Neocom - it'd be nice to be able to create shortcuts on the neocom bar that are context sensitive for things like individual POS hangers/fuel bays, or a current station's hanger, or a specific station hangar, or a SMA, that only show up if the inventory node in question is available.
You could then use it to replicate the functionality of the old ship/hangar buttons that used to be above the undock button. Throw in the ability to fake up a close replica of the old system with some extra checkbox options (say, "open new inventory panes in seperate windows"), and suddenly people who fear change can revert to their beloved million-windows interface. |
Race Drones
13th Squadron Cascade Imminent
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 02:57:00 -
[254] - Quote
CCP is falling in the Scope Creep. Keep it simple, Stupid! - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle
|
Chokichi Ozuwara
Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown
216
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 02:59:00 -
[255] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Yes, thanks for quoting what I said and adding absolutely nothing of value to the discussion. Value is subjective sweetheart.
Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
116
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 03:02:00 -
[256] - Quote
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:Before inferno, I would dock and my ship hangar, items, and corp hangar would all be open right where I left them. I could see everything I owned and interact with it instantly.
That was really nice. I think it's something we should have again.
This I really miss. As a primarily industrial player having windows always open the size and position they were in when last closed was really convenient. Especially when managing POS modules. Just click and open and they were always in the same spot. No I have to move and re-size each window every time. Very annoying. |
Dawnmist
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 03:08:00 -
[257] - Quote
Seatox wrote:The new inventory system needs to be more unified with the Neocom - it'd be nice to be able to create shortcuts on the neocom bar that are context sensitive for things like individual POS hangers/fuel bays, or a current station's hanger, or a specific station hangar, or a SMA, that only show up if the inventory node in question is available.
You could then use it to replicate the functionality of the old ship/hangar buttons that used to be above the undock button. Throw in the ability to fake up a close replica of the old system with some extra checkbox options (say, "open new inventory panes in seperate windows"), and suddenly people who fear change can revert to their beloved million-windows interface.
Yep.
An in general this new system should have been built in correct order:
1. Add all the basic functionality what old system had. 2. Make all windows behave (stack, save, persist) like they did in old system. 3. Add more features which support old functionality. 4. Add totally new functionality which maybe helps and works for someone.
...but no - victory goes to the one who yelled "scrap 1-3" - we are CCP and skip boldly directly to line four, call it improvement and pretty efficiently ruin everyone's game play in the process.
|
Seatox
Department of Defence Fatal Ascension
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 03:21:00 -
[258] - Quote
Dawnmist wrote:Seatox wrote:The new inventory system needs to be more unified with the Neocom - it'd be nice to be able to create shortcuts on the neocom bar that are context sensitive for things like individual POS hangers/fuel bays, or a current station's hanger, or a specific station hangar, or a SMA, that only show up if the inventory node in question is available.
You could then use it to replicate the functionality of the old ship/hangar buttons that used to be above the undock button. Throw in the ability to fake up a close replica of the old system with some extra checkbox options (say, "open new inventory panes in seperate windows"), and suddenly people who fear change can revert to their beloved million-windows interface. Yep. An in general this new system should have been built in correct order: 1. Add all the basic functionality what old system had. 2. Make all windows behave (stack, save, persist) like they did in old system. 3. Add more features which support old functionality. 4. Add totally new functionality which maybe helps and works for someone. ...but no - victory goes to the one who yelled "scrap 1-3" - we are CCP and skip boldly directly to line four, call it improvement and pretty efficiently ruin everyone's game play in the process.
It's not too bad, considering that the old system was held together by the finest Minmatar engineering (Duct-tape and bailing wire). At least we get spinning wheels of LOADING PLEASE WAIT to tell us when the inventory is lagging now.
Give them a few weeks of Crucible style rapid-fixing-stuff and it'll be pretty sweet by the end of it. |
disasteur
Tellcomtec Incorporated. Preatoriani
110
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 03:30:00 -
[259] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:I've not been able to be very active on the forums for the last couple of days simple because my time is better spent fixing defects as it is.
First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers. We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly.
Revamping a fundamental system, used by every single player, such as the inventory system so that it will fit every player's needs and expectations from day one is a tall order to say the least. There is probably no other system within EVE that is as multidimensional as the inventory and the use cases seem to be endless. The old system had not changed much at all and most of you veterans could probably operate it at lightning speeds blindfolded. Having to waste time re-learning basic things is annoying as hell and I get it. I've been there myself. I would be pretty furious if someone forced me to use a different Python editor, and it would probably slow me down tremendously for the first couple of days or even weeks. A fitting punishment for my crimes maybe?
THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. We identified the inventory as being one of the biggest violator and that's why we went on this journey (not because we like to spend Sunday afternoons on the EVE forums, lovely as they are, mind you!). A lot of things have changed in the world of user interfaces during the last 10 years, and I think it's safe to say that a game shipping with the old EVE inventory system EVE today would receive mixed reviews.
The old system had been brewing out in the wild for 9 years, but the new one for less than a week, so obviously it has not received the same amount of updates and fixes. We are, and will be working hard to make sure that no matter your profession in EVE, you will have an equally or faster way of doing what you need to do.
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Making it optional is also not optional (confusingly enough) as it would require us to maintain two systems side by side which would cause an exponential increase in code and interface complexity if we were to make a habit of it. It's not as simple or as good of an idea as it might seem at first.
One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it. When we do, people without exceptions ask for the old one back. Doing both is obviously impossible. There is still work to be done and work we shall.
the biggest complaint is that the majority doesnt like it and wants the old system back, further more there are many players around with the patience to give it a try (im not one of them cus i dont have the patience) and still they come here or in 1 of the other topics to complain about it.
i mean how many posts does it take to convince you guys at CCP that the new UI is a total waste of time? also most reply's done by CCP are unfounded, not answering the question, or just total offtopic.
about the changing part... most people asked a roleback, and some asked to do some changes on the new UI, but what you had to do was listening to the people in the testforums. so once again stop fixing the new crap and work on the old UI to return, so everybody can be happy again |
Citrute
Quiet.Storm F0RCEFUL ENTRY
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 03:52:00 -
[260] - Quote
How you put the old inventory system back while you make these weekly changes.
I'll just be over here, playing not eve until this mess is sorted. |
|
Jonuts
The Arrow Project CORE.
92
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 05:05:00 -
[261] - Quote
Seatox wrote:
You could then use it to replicate the functionality of the old ship/hangar buttons that used to be above the undock button. Throw in the ability to fake up a close replica of the old system with some extra checkbox options (say, "open new inventory panes in seperate windows"), and suddenly people who fear change can revert to their beloved million-windows interface.
Fear change. I never really understood that accusation. Change can be totally awesome. When it's for the better. Not liking a specific change isn't necessarily because someone fears change. Most folks bitching about this UI change legitimately dislike it. Remember, just because I don't want to get punched in the mouth every morning as my new morning routine doesn't mean I fear change, it just means I don't want to have to be punched in the mouth every morning. |
Kile Kitmoore
58
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 05:25:00 -
[262] - Quote
Fix now: 1. Windows state. If someone wants 10 windows open when they dock in a station then EVE needs to remember this and save their size and position. The UI should distinguish between UI in a ship and docked. If someone wants small separate windows for opening cans the UI should remember this. This also includes pilots being able to actually turn things off to get more viewing area in windows, we need options. Just give back the functionality you took. Sway pilots over to a one window system by putting in things that will be more efficient and easier to work with.
2. Performance, now I appreciate that you have done another round of performance tweaks. My fear is that with the Price Estimate in this constant state of always being on that you will not be able to give back the performance pilots once enjoyed. If Tues. patch does not accomplish this it's time to consider giving people the option to turn Price. Est. off.
Sooner Rather then Later: I really want to use a single window, I really do. In the current state it makes it to difficult.
1. Enough with this BS where if someone puts something in a station container it goes into a black hole. When I click Item Hanger and I have station containers under it I expect UI to show me everything, including the contents of those station containers. One big master list of all my items in station. Not everyone may want this so, make it optional. This is where you actual make the treeview useful.
2. The same goes for containers in space, if have a number of containers opened in space there should be a parent that I click and view all the content of those containers. Why you did not build this functionality absolutely boggles the mind.
Lots of other ideas but it's those four that I feel would at least get things back on track and move us in a proper direction. Good luck.
|
Seatox
Department of Defence Fatal Ascension
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 05:31:00 -
[263] - Quote
Jonuts wrote:Seatox wrote:
You could then use it to replicate the functionality of the old ship/hangar buttons that used to be above the undock button. Throw in the ability to fake up a close replica of the old system with some extra checkbox options (say, "open new inventory panes in seperate windows"), and suddenly people who fear change can revert to their beloved million-windows interface.
Fear change. I never really understood that accusation. Change can be totally awesome. When it's for the better. Not liking a specific change isn't necessarily because someone fears change. Most folks bitching about this UI change legitimately dislike it. Remember, just because I don't want to get punched in the mouth every morning as my new morning routine doesn't mean I fear change, it just means I don't want to have to be punched in the mouth every morning.
It would be totally awesome... if it wasn't for the bugs and teething problems, and the way it suddenly forces people to unlearn thing they've been doing for years in order to cope with all the inconveniences of the old system (a million windows) in order to learn to cope with the inconveniences of the new system (shift click everything). If CCP had started out with the new inventory system and switched to the old one, we'd have a far, far bigger outcry. "MY INVENTORY FILTERS GIVE THEM BACK" etc.
I mean, look what happened when they took out contact folders in Tyrannis. They ended up putting them back in.
Really, from my personal experience with the thing, my biggest complaints are pretty much addressed by what's supposed to be in the Tuesday patch (Performance of the inventory near a POS). I'd say the whole debacle could have been avoided if they'd delayed Crucible by a week - but then people would complain about CCP pushing the release date back.
CCP just can't win with the playerbase as a collective. |
Dawnmist
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 05:39:00 -
[264] - Quote
Seatox wrote:Jonuts wrote:Seatox wrote:
You could then use it to replicate the functionality of the old ship/hangar buttons that used to be above the undock button. Throw in the ability to fake up a close replica of the old system with some extra checkbox options (say, "open new inventory panes in seperate windows"), and suddenly people who fear change can revert to their beloved million-windows interface.
Fear change. I never really understood that accusation. Change can be totally awesome. When it's for the better. Not liking a specific change isn't necessarily because someone fears change. Most folks bitching about this UI change legitimately dislike it. Remember, just because I don't want to get punched in the mouth every morning as my new morning routine doesn't mean I fear change, it just means I don't want to have to be punched in the mouth every morning. It would be totally awesome... if it wasn't for the bugs and teething problems, and the way it suddenly forces people to unlearn thing they've been doing for years in order to cope with all the inconveniences of the old system (a million windows) in order to learn to cope with the inconveniences of the new system (shift click everything). If CCP had started out with the new inventory system and switched to the old one, we'd have a far, far bigger outcry. "MY INVENTORY FILTERS GIVE THEM BACK" etc. I mean, look what happened when they took out contact folders in Tyrannis. They ended up putting them back in. Really, from my personal experience with the thing, my biggest complaints are pretty much addressed by what's supposed to be in the Tuesday patch (Performance of the inventory near a POS). I'd say the whole debacle could have been avoided if they'd delayed Crucible by a week - but then people would complain about CCP pushing the release date back. CCP just can't win with the playerbase as a collective.
Btw they released inferno. Perhaps you should log in some time ?
|
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
160
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 05:41:00 -
[265] - Quote
Just as we can create presets for the Overview, provide the same capability to the tree.
Certain presets (docked for example) include a check-off that places the 'storage unit' into the main UI. While docked, a pilot might wish to have the Ship Hangar icon visible on the main UI.
Certain presets (at a POS) can limit the arrays, silos, weapons, etc., that appear in the tree.
All possible storage containers, cans, cargo bays, weapon arrays are not equally important all the time. What we use is based upon where we are and what we're doing.
The one-size-fits all approach only produces a bloat, disorganized impediment to game play. If I have to set aside time to create presets so be it! I'll do it once and be done with it. |
Archibald Frederick III
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 05:45:00 -
[266] - Quote
Cloned S0ul wrote:Hi Devs. [...]
My question to you CCP, why you change best working mechanism in game ?
Ps.While we old players can deal with your new full of wired mechanic inventory im 100% sure newbis need spent more time to discovery how it works... Why you bring chaos to game ?
Since I've been playing for less than a month, perhaps I'm less invested in some of the more complex game systems or haven't been exposed to some of the use cases that people feel have been messed up. Maybe. However, I can say with assurance that the new system is MUCH easier for 'newbis' such as myself to get our heads around. It would take some mighty rose-tinted goggles to say that the inventory was 'the best working mechanism in the game,' and while the new system has plenty of room for improvement, this is a good and necessary thing that you are doing. I feel like not enough people are saying that. Fix the bugs, restore the lost functionality, but never believe that the playerbase is unanimous in wanting a return to the good old days. |
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
339
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 06:16:00 -
[267] - Quote
One question to any CCP:
Are you willed to work on an option or possibility, that every player who wants to have several hundreds of independent, adjustable in size and position, windows; is able to absolute rebuild the old UI and its functions 100% EXACT and 1to1 as it was before 22.05.2012?
Simple question. Now please answer.
To be absolute clear: - I want my ship hangar Icon in the Neocom back - I want double clicks -> Shift + Click or Shift + Shortcut is in absolute NO WAY a solution! I want to play a game via mouse. Not a text based game! - I want to double click at a container in my assets and it must open in a new (adjustable in size and position) window. - I want to be able to rupture the whole unified UI; which means drag a tab and drop it FOR EVER out of this unified UI. It must stay out of this unified UI even when I log off an on. - I want my hundreds of windows back!
Are you willed to work on that? You better should answer now so that I am able to have a look for a new game or renew my subscription again. |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
500
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 06:24:00 -
[268] - Quote
You know, I think in the long term I can live with the inventory after it gets fixed, but why you CCP *removed functionality* in favor of an half finished blingbling product is beyond me.
Take an Orca for example, drag ship out from ship hangar (Which I was forced (not a good thing) to dock with the station icons), and plop it down in the station. Orca goes live and I quickly want to access the corp bay on it.
I can't.
Why? Because my previous right click menu no longer gives that option. Again I'm forced to use a drop down menu and then have to shift through tiny little branches that may be open or not to find what I'm looking for.
In short: previous: Orca -> r-click = direct access to the hangars & bays Recently: Orca -> click inventory = wait for it to load -> Open Orca tab (which can be yes/ no case) -> open corporation hangars (which can be yes/ no case), then access what hangar bay I want to open.
You probably mean good, unless you're knowingly grieving us but something so fundamental as this change should had gone through much more testing & feedback from your end users before it got pressed down their throats.
Is it already that long ago that you removed our hangar bay and we had to tell you that was a big mistake? :o
Who needs television when you have EVE? EVE drama, best drama. |
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
339
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 06:28:00 -
[269] - Quote
Archibald Frederick III wrote:Fix the bugs, restore the lost functionality,...
The lost functionality IS the "more than one window" mode. They should just add this feature again. If you like the new crap fine. But they have to absolute rebuild the old UI with their new code, in order to have the functionality of the old UI back. AFTER that.. and really not until that they can go on and improve the unified UI more. But YOU, as lover of the new, have to wait till the restoration of the former UI is done. I am a subsrciber since 4 years and I must say; that I have a classification system which contains named containers. I hate the idea of filters! I do not need them! The main claim of this new UI is to work faster? Yeah.. If I ever have to adjust my filters to be able to find something? I just want to reach my containers quickly. But it is not possible with the current state of this UI.
Archibald Frederick III wrote:...but never believe that the playerbase is unanimous in wanting a return to the good old days. Do not speculate on that. Read the ALL of the forums- and the testserver feedback. |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown
218
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 06:30:00 -
[270] - Quote
Archibald Frederick III wrote:Since I've been playing for less than a month, perhaps I'm less invested in some of the more complex game systems or haven't been exposed to some of the use cases that people feel have been messed up. Maybe. Definitely. No offense, I have been playing less than a year, and I can tell you that there is no way you have experienced even 1/10th of the game yet.
When you get a chance to get into a WH and you have a POS, and being able to reship, or fit for combat on short notice is crucial, this inventory system is crap.
Not to mention if you were doing heavy duty industrial ops. I can't imagine how bad this screws the guys who actually make the ships we fly around in. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
|
Mar Drakar
LDK Test Alliance Please Ignore
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 06:32:00 -
[271] - Quote
now that this is moving filehandling-style way, one thing that's missing is back and forward buttons.
Also allow at least two isntances of windows be open, and majority of haters will step back and realize this is actually not that bad of an UI |
Masamune Dekoro
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
144
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 06:35:00 -
[272] - Quote
Just let people drag out individual subfolders into separate windows and most of the tears should stop. |
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
340
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 06:36:00 -
[273] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote: ..... I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming.
Again: Read the forum. It Sucks AND AND AND:
Restore the old UI as it was before 22.05.2012! Nothing more. Restore the UI. No Chortcuts; no lag; Icons in my NeoCom, double clicks at the icons in my assets and hundreds of independent, adjustable in size and positition, windows. NOTHING MORE! We want to be able to have an EXACT copy of the former UI. Are you willed to change it so that we can have it?
Can someone form CCP respond to this demand? I am feeling ignored from CCP. |
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
340
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 06:37:00 -
[274] - Quote
Masamune Dekoro wrote:Just let people drag out individual subfolders into separate windows and most of the tears should stop. Correct |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 06:38:00 -
[275] - Quote
The whole tree thing is nice and all, but for some things, multiple windows is a GOOD thing, so you need to work on that aspect. I keep my ship cargo bay open most times for easy ammo tracking and quick looting. I also keep my maint bay and corp hangar windows stacked with my overview, the idea being I don't need to look at them much, and most of the times I do, there's not immediate reason to look at the overview. Having separate windows also makes cargo management easier since I can drag and drop between windows quickly.
When I dock in a station, not only are the handy ship and item hangar buttons gone, forcing me to use a menu to open inventory, but they also like to open up in one of those windows, neither of which is particularly fantastic for dealing with the crapload of items I have due to size and shape, and even when I open in new window and make something of a more usable size, the next time I dock, I have to do it again.
The UI needs to be better about remembering that Cargo, maint and corp hangars on my ship, and the items and ships hangar in the station are all different windows, and not try to open them in one of the existing item windows. It needs to use the everything else window.
Also the new tree system can be a bit slow to navigate at times which is the opposite of what was supposed to be accomplished. |
Logicycle
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 06:56:00 -
[276] - Quote
This is unreal. Even after thousands of hate posts they are not budging.
|
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries Alliance not Found
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 07:20:00 -
[277] - Quote
Quote:Looting: Cargo containers and wrecks will function the same. Having multiple wrecks or containers open should be easy to loot as you can just click GÇ£loot allGÇ¥ and it will automatically go to the next item on the list instead of your ships cargohold. There is an added performance increase as well. Is that going to stop The Window checking everything I own to determine whether it needs to be shown and causing a 15 second freeze for every wreck I open? Most of the time I'm in space I don't need my cargo; I can load my guns from the guns, loot by dragging to the cargo icon...etc. Some specific ships require a bit more management (moving cap boosters from a can in cargo to cargo, moving ore to a jet-can or Orca...etc.) but given the vast screen real-estate The Window takes up...
The only thing which had given The Window an edge over the old system is the tree and the ability to drag stuff to the tree rather than having to open a can (or whatever else) to drag it to... but that's entirely pointless given that I have to open the container anyway in order to unlock all the stuff I just put into it. |
Daeva Teresa
Viziam Amarr Empire
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 07:32:00 -
[278] - Quote
Since the new system is trying to emulate windows folder explorer (that I absolutely hate and avoid as much as i can), you know that thing has these options: Open each folder in new window Open each folder in same window right?
And just quick truth: If you think that microsoft's ideas of UI (hide every setting as much as you can, force user to new stupid ****** things like Metro) are good, then you should really think twice. CCP really please dont use Upgraded, Limited, Experimental-áand Prototype in item names. It sounds like the item is actually worse than basic meta 1 item. Use Calibrated, Enhanced, Optimized and Upgraded. Its really easy to understand that the item is better than meta 1 and its also in alphabetic order. |
Dennie Fleetfoot
EVE University Ivy League
151
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 07:41:00 -
[279] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:I've not been able to be very active on the forums for the last couple of days simple because my time is better spent fixing defects as it is.
First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers. We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly.
Revamping a fundamental system, used by every single player, such as the inventory system so that it will fit every player's needs and expectations from day one is a tall order to say the least. There is probably no other system within EVE that is as multidimensional as the inventory and the use cases seem to be endless. The old system had not changed much at all and most of you veterans could probably operate it at lightning speeds blindfolded. Having to waste time re-learning basic things is annoying as hell and I get it. I've been there myself. I would be pretty furious if someone forced me to use a different Python editor, and it would probably slow me down tremendously for the first couple of days or even weeks. A fitting punishment for my crimes maybe?
THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. We identified the inventory as being one of the biggest violator and that's why we went on this journey (not because we like to spend Sunday afternoons on the EVE forums, lovely as they are, mind you!). A lot of things have changed in the world of user interfaces during the last 10 years, and I think it's safe to say that a game shipping with the old EVE inventory system EVE today would receive mixed reviews.
The old system had been brewing out in the wild for 9 years, but the new one for less than a week, so obviously it has not received the same amount of updates and fixes. We are, and will be working hard to make sure that no matter your profession in EVE, you will have an equally or faster way of doing what you need to do.
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Making it optional is also not optional (confusingly enough) as it would require us to maintain two systems side by side which would cause an exponential increase in code and interface complexity if we were to make a habit of it. It's not as simple or as good of an idea as it might seem at first.
One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it. When we do, people without exceptions ask for the old one back. Doing both is obviously impossible. There is still work to be done and work we shall.
|
Dennie Fleetfoot
EVE University Ivy League
153
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 07:46:00 -
[280] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:I've not been able to be very active on the forums for the last couple of days simple because my time is better spent fixing defects as it is.
First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers. We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly.
Revamping a fundamental system, used by every single player, such as the inventory system so that it will fit every player's needs and expectations from day one is a tall order to say the least. There is probably no other system within EVE that is as multidimensional as the inventory and the use cases seem to be endless. The old system had not changed much at all and most of you veterans could probably operate it at lightning speeds blindfolded. Having to waste time re-learning basic things is annoying as hell and I get it. I've been there myself. I would be pretty furious if someone forced me to use a different Python editor, and it would probably slow me down tremendously for the first couple of days or even weeks. A fitting punishment for my crimes maybe?
THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. We identified the inventory as being one of the biggest violator and that's why we went on this journey (not because we like to spend Sunday afternoons on the EVE forums, lovely as they are, mind you!). A lot of things have changed in the world of user interfaces during the last 10 years, and I think it's safe to say that a game shipping with the old EVE inventory system EVE today would receive mixed reviews.
The old system had been brewing out in the wild for 9 years, but the new one for less than a week, so obviously it has not received the same amount of updates and fixes. We are, and will be working hard to make sure that no matter your profession in EVE, you will have an equally or faster way of doing what you need to do.
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Making it optional is also not optional (confusingly enough) as it would require us to maintain two systems side by side which would cause an exponential increase in code and interface complexity if we were to make a habit of it. It's not as simple or as good of an idea as it might seem at first.
One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it. When we do, people without exceptions ask for the old one back. Doing both is obviously impossible. There is still work to be done and work we shall.
Words fail me. I'm honestly at a complete loss at what to say in reply to this. I was expecting a reasoned rational for the changes, instead we get another 'I'm right and your wrong' from one of the dynamic duo.
Firstly I want numbers boy. The biggest complaint was the number of windows at anytime? I've played this game for three years and been socially active on the forums, traveled to Fanfest and London meets and I have never, EVER heard anyone make this complaint. So if your're going to use that as an excuse for your poor performance I want the numbers of complaints about the UI, the number of the complaints about the numbers of windows and I want them as a percentage of the total number of complaints about EVE. It that percentage is less than 30 percent, all that should tell anyone with an intelligence greater than a used teabag is that 70 percent of people were happy with the old UI and it should be low on your list of priorities.
Your claiming that feedback and suggestions were acted upon in Sisi? Sorry I was there, and that frankly is a bare faced lie. If you had truely listened, acted and followed through the proof of that would be that your precious Unifubared Inventory would still be on Sisi getting debugged. So your either lying or so far removed from reality that I'd worry about giving you a pair of scissors.
Your begging us to give it a try???!!!! What in the hell do you think we've doing for 5 weeks???!!!!!! This amount of rage about your deeply, deeply flawed concept doesn't come from people who don't like change it's coming from people who have tried this muddled mess and guess what? WE DON'T LIKE IT!! Hate it in fact. No amount of trying it is going to alter that fact. The game is virtually unplayable using it. Or perhaps I should say virtually unplayable and still enjoy it.
I'm not going to tell how to fix it. If you haven't figured out how to from all we've said here, the Sisi forums and the complaints then you shouldn't be working in this job.
You are still living this dream world, where if you build it they will come Optimal. After everything that has been pointed out about the failings of this misguided adventure, you're still defending your Unifubared Inventory like a petulant 5 year old.
Now allow to Soundwave to continue to try and fix the mess you and Arrow made. We prefer talking to grown-up here. |
|
Dennie Fleetfoot
EVE University Ivy League
153
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 07:49:00 -
[281] - Quote
Sorry, double post.
I apologise for my mistakes. |
Arco Arachni
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 07:56:00 -
[282] - Quote
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:We prefer talking to grown-up here. Come on mate ... that counts for all of us ;) s*** storming doenst help.
|
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 08:04:00 -
[283] - Quote
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:CCP Optimal wrote:ccp blabla Words fail me. I'm honestly at a complete loss at what to say in reply to this. I was expecting a reasoned rational for the changes, instead we get another 'I'm right and your wrong' from one of the dynamic duo. Firstly I want numbers boy. The biggest complaint was the number of windows at anytime? I've played this game for three years and been socially active on the forums, traveled to Fanfest and London meets and I have never, EVER heard anyone make this complaint. So if your're going to use that as an excuse for your poor performance I want the numbers of complaints about the UI, the number of the complaints about the numbers of windows and I want them as a percentage of the total number of complaints about EVE. It that percentage is less than 30 percent, all that should tell anyone with an intelligence greater than a used teabag is that 70 percent of people were happy with the old UI and it should be low on your list of priorities. Your claiming that feedback and suggestions were acted upon in Sisi? Sorry I was there, and that frankly is a bare faced lie. If you had truely listened, acted and followed through the proof of that would be that your precious Unifubared Inventory would still be on Sisi getting debugged. So your either lying or so far removed from reality that I'd worry about giving you a pair of scissors. Your begging us to give it a try???!!!! What in the hell do you think we've doing for 5 weeks???!!!!!! This amount of rage about your deeply, deeply flawed concept doesn't come from people who don't like change it's coming from people who have tried this muddled mess and guess what? WE DON'T LIKE IT!! Hate it in fact. No amount of trying it is going to alter that fact. The game is virtually unplayable using it. Or perhaps I should say virtually unplayable and still enjoy it. I'm not going to tell how to fix it. If you haven't figured out how to from all we've said here, the Sisi forums and the complaints then you shouldn't be working in this job. You are still living this dream world, where if you build it they will come Optimal. After everything that has been pointed out about the failings of this misguided adventure, you're still defending your Unifubared Inventory like a petulant 5 year old. Now allow to Soundwave to continue to try and fix the mess you and Arrow made. We prefer talking to grown-up here. This is right answer.
|
Makaganti
University of Caille Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 08:05:00 -
[284] - Quote
the old system was perfect till it took an arrow to the knee
I take it ccp are just going to keep with the new UI and patch it and patch it and patch it oh did I mention and patch it till we STFU enough for ccp to say hey look its now working no complaints |
Andy DelGardo
Hedion University Amarr Empire
34
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 08:19:00 -
[285] - Quote
FIX: Add a "ignore empty containers/devisions" option for the tree view, i have countless POS modules but i always only use one devision. So showing all the other 7 devision in a tree view simply is impractically. The analogy would be that the Win-Explorer will show me 100 folders that i don't use and are empty... i would simply delete them, but here i cant do this.
Option: Add a option to "OR" instead of "AND" the final saved rules filters, similar to the "any" option that can be used while setting up a individual rule. So i can have multiple saved rule-set combining, instead of excluding each other.
Feature: Make it possible to drag&drop to the top-name of a POS module or Corp hangar, without needing to have it expanded. Make the items go to either the first devision or make it a configurable option.
Feature: Make the window scroll "hover" sensitive, so u can scroll in the tree-view without having the window highlighted. U have to scroll a lot in the new system, so having this "hover" sensitive is more comfortable, since it saves 2 clicks to focus and refocus windows.
Feature: Make it possible to open a auto-stacked separated window for all devisions/containers or not-empty devisions/containers, similar to the shift-click. When working with devisions the most effective way in the new system is, to have the tree view open on the left and have individual windows with stacked devisions open in a separate window and than drag&drop items to just the top rows. If i could get a Auto-grouped and stacked window via one-click, this would make things more comfortable. |
Aria Wolfe
Great Awakening
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 08:21:00 -
[286] - Quote
Callidus Dux wrote:CCP Optimal wrote: ..... I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming.
Again: Read the forum. It Sucks AND AND AND: Restore the old UI as it was before 22.05.2012! Nothing more. Restore the UI. No Chortcuts; no lag; Icons in my NeoCom, double clicks at the icons in my assets and hundreds of independent, adjustable in size and positition, windows. NOTHING MORE! We want to be able to have an EXACT copy of the former UI. Are you willed to change it so that we can have it? Can someone form CCP respond to this demand? I am feeling ignored from CCP.
Beg us to honestly give it a try? We all have, hence the outrage in two forum threads. We are honestly asking you to revert back to the original UI.
So from the course the Dev's are taking they are not listening to what we like in the game and as such I sadly canceled my two accounts. It is a system that simply doesn't work and while many have offered ideas or thoughts on how to improve it, the general consensus is to roll it back. CCP will not, but instead push crappier fixes out. Too bad because I have enjoyed the game, and fanfest and made some good friends here.
We all spend our money on things we like, and when the value of the money & time spent becomes 'unbalanced', as in the case of this UI garbage, and we see that ccp has no intention of really listening & fixing it (see quote above) I chose to balance my value by cancelling my accounts. Sad I won't be playing anymore, but what's the point if playing has become more frustrating than fun?
|
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
62
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 08:25:00 -
[287] - Quote
One of the key failings of the new system is how big it all is if you wish to use it as a single window. It takes up more space than multiple old inventory windows and the old inventory windows could be small and thus moved to unused spaces on my screen. The new inventory is the dominating UI feature when it is open and takes a lot of vertical space which is at more of a premium than screen width.
This is annoying but manageable in station but in space I want to be able to see my overview, local, other key chat channels, scanner (if IGÇÖm in a potential combat situation) etc at all times and the tree view competes with this and I have yet to find a satisfactory layout.
One minor niggle not related to the above. When I drag stuff from one tree location to another if I pause momentarily over another tree location the inventory switches to the location IGÇÖm hovering over. Could this feature be made optional or least increase the GÇÿhover timeGÇÖ before the inventory switches?
Fear God and Thread Nought |
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
348
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 08:26:00 -
[288] - Quote
Aria Wolfe wrote:
Beg us to honestly give it a try? We all have, hence the outrage in two forum threads. ...
Sorry for that 'snip' of your correspondence. But now; we have MORE than only two threads to this issue. Have a look here
But anyway: +1 for you |
Captain Praxis
EVE University Ivy League
62
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 08:39:00 -
[289] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote: *Hubris*
I was pretty optimistic over the weekend after reading CCP Soundwave's posts as it seemed that CCP were going to be addressing my concerns and restoring the lost functionality.
Now, after seeing CCP Optimal's post, I'm getting the feeling that CCP may not be as committed as I had thought to sorting out the issues.
Can we get a concrete answer as to whether the following features are definitely going to be re-implemented?
1) - Persistent multiple windows that remeber their size, position and function over session changes and log-outs/log-ins
2) - Separate Ship Hangar & Item Hangar buttons on the Neocom by default (or the ability to add them if they are not default), that open said hangars in separate windows (without a tree), at the same size/position as when they were last open
3) - Having wrecks and cans open in individual windows (without a tree), all at the same size/position as when they were last open
4) - Having the Open Cargohold button on the in-space HUD open the ship's cargo hold in a separate window (without a tree), at the same size/position as when it was last open
5) - Restoration of the missing right-click functions (e.g. Open Drone Bay, Open Fuel Bay, etc...)
You may have noticed the subtle hints above that I hate using trees for navigation. I don't even use the tree in the Market window unless there's no other option to find what I'm looking for. |
shockwaves2009
Organized-Chaos Apocalypse Now.
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 08:52:00 -
[290] - Quote
hello
i think the inventory can be better iff we can add better filters because at the moment i only can filter the stuff whats in the pos modules i gona like when we can filter those guns from the pos out then i only have the assembly array's , corporate hangaars and ship array
because why i want to see a medium pulse laser in the index when i still need to fly with-in 2500 m to see whats in it but still then i don't want the defence modules in that index so iff i can filter that out i realy gona like this new inventory
i realy hope you gona do someting about this |
|
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
745
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 09:08:00 -
[291] - Quote
Callidus Dux wrote:CCP Optimal wrote: ..... I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming.
Again: Read the forum. It Sucks AND AND AND: Restore the old UI as it was before 22.05.2012! Nothing more. Restore the UI. No Chortcuts; no lag; Icons in my NeoCom, double clicks at the icons in my assets and hundreds of independent, adjustable in size and positition, windows. NOTHING MORE! We want to be able to have an EXACT copy of the former UI. Are you willed to change it so that we can have it? Can someone form CCP respond to this demand? I am feeling ignored from CCP. maybe because you just ignored them? Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
Ponder Yonder
Fleet of the Damned Ace of Spades.
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 09:09:00 -
[292] - Quote
CCP, Thanks for the effort you are putting into the new UI. I don't like it, yet, but I can see the potential and look forward to seeing it realised.
I have a few issues to bring to your attention:
1) I really like to see my assets in plain view when I dock up. This wish of mine, and many other players' requests for multiple windows, remembering window positions, etc., could be achieved by fixing the the pin/unpin mechanic. It does not work with inventory windows. Here is my use case:
I am docked at station X. I create an arbitrary number of inventory windows (by shift-clicking). I move, shape, sort and filter the windows to suit my purposes. I pin the ones that I wish to persist. I undock and re-dock at station X. My pinned inventory windows display in the same positions, with the same filters, sort orders, columns displayed.
2) When I drag items from one container to another, using a single window, I quite often manage to hover over the destination a fraction of a second too long. The destination container then opens up, destroying my view of the source container. I realise that there are situations where the 'open on hover' or 'open on drag' mechanic is valuable, but clearly there are some instances where it is not. Please look into this. I have read suggestions on these forums for a button that appears when hovering, or increasing the delay before opening the targer container. Either would suit me.
3) The 'stack all' function seems a bit buggy. Sometimes it stacks, sometimes it doesnt. I recently had a situation where I was moving minerals from one station to another. In the source container (IIRC a station hangar), I could not get the minerals to stack no matter what I did. I dragged them all to the cargohold of my hauler and stacked them there, no problem.
4) The Assets window is not integrated with the new UI. Are there any plans for this?
- Ponder |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
745
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 09:15:00 -
[293] - Quote
Quote:Making it optional is also not optional (confusingly enough) as it would require us to maintain two systems side by side which would cause an exponential increase in code and interface complexity if we were to make a habit of it
but that is just NOT TRUE. Come on guys, I support the tree view. but if you don't think you can code it to be optinal, you're kidding your self.
set default to buttons in the game and neocom open in a new window.
make it so you have to click the >> button to open the tree UI. Only clicking in the tree UI open that in the same window.
make sure the tree UI remember if it was left open or closed per window.
DONE, IT IS NOW OPTIONAL.
Note I fully support the new UI. However, an you please please tell me what is holding you back from doing something like what I posted above? Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
503
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 09:26:00 -
[294] - Quote
Bah, reading the posts here gets me al rilled up again.
Mar Drakar wrote:now that this is moving filehandling-style way, one thing that's missing is back and forward buttons.
Yep that times 1000. If we are stuck with this inventory of horror we need to be able to move back & forth.
How many times I had a folder open the past days and if I double clicked on another folder... You know what it did? It gobsmackingly! replaced the folder I had already open. And you know what I did then? I hit that small << button, which collapsed the tree instead of going back to the folder I wanted to be open.
It's so counter intuitive and just pure bad design.
Check your working computer. Open up a folder and then another. You have now 2 folders open. And open a new one and... If Wrangler where still here he'd say it's stupid. Because it doesn't work. You have to fight the interface. And yes, slim it down. Its takes way too much screen space as well.
CCP dudes, in stations people can hear you scream.
Oh, ps, stop reinventing the wheel. Who needs television when you have EVE? EVE drama, best drama. |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
745
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 09:26:00 -
[295] - Quote
Archibald Frederick III wrote:Cloned S0ul wrote:Hi Devs. [...]
My question to you CCP, why you change best working mechanism in game ?
Ps.While we old players can deal with your new full of wired mechanic inventory im 100% sure newbis need spent more time to discovery how it works... Why you bring chaos to game ? Since I've been playing for less than a month, perhaps I'm less invested in some of the more complex game systems or haven't been exposed to some of the use cases that people feel have been messed up. Maybe. However, I can say with assurance that the new system is MUCH easier for 'newbis' such as myself to get our heads around. It would take some mighty rose-tinted goggles to say that the inventory was 'the best working mechanism in the game,' and while the new system has plenty of room for improvement, this is a good and necessary thing that you are doing. I feel like not enough people are saying that. Fix the bugs, restore the lost functionality, but never believe that the playerbase is unanimous in wanting a return to the good old days.
psft I'm still fighting to get back per-trinity modeled. they looks SOOOO much better back then. /sarcasm Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
Logicycle
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 09:29:00 -
[296] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:
I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible).
lies. |
Liranan
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 09:32:00 -
[297] - Quote
Dear CCP,
Thanks for the unified cargo and items hangar. It's a fantastic feature and I sincerely love it. What I like the most is that the window resizes itself on undock and sometimes closes simply because it feels like it. As always great features, don't ever stop.
A tragically loyal customer. http://www.youtube.com/user/zeitgeistmovie?blend=1&ob=4#p/u/23/Lio3n66bwOo This ****'s got to go - Jacque Fresco |
disasteur
Tellcomtec Incorporated. Preatoriani
115
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 09:41:00 -
[298] - Quote
Logicycle wrote:CCP Optimal wrote:
I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible).
lies.
its not an option because you dont want it to be an option? (my guess is that the code is to deep integraded in the entire system?) technically impossible? not true a complete roleback has done before (how many days that took for you to consider?) would be strange if in case of an emergency you couldnt restore it, but ok what ever you say is a roleback desireable? guess not cus then the other half will start to complain.....
how about this, in station the new look and feel, with the suggested modifications, in space more like the old look and feel? |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
115
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 09:59:00 -
[299] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:
I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible).
That sounds familiar......
"Sorry, it is technically impossible to revert to the old hanger system . CQ is here to stay."
After the Jita riots and lots of unsubbed accounts, it miraculously became technically possible..........
|
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
115
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 10:00:00 -
[300] - Quote
An answer to two SIMPLE questions, please.....
Why not revert to the old system ? Why did you not listen to all the issues pointed out for a couple of weeks while this system was on SISI ?
Giving an honest response to these questions is the least you can do after all this crap.
|
|
Teyyla
Mercury Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 10:04:00 -
[301] - Quote
A lot of the issues over the new inventory system are really quite simple to fix. You just need to get your heads out of your ass and LISTEN.
1. Bring back the clickable buttons that just open a single hanger (Ships, Items, Corp Hanger). Make these windows remember size and position, and reinstate the tabs on the Corp hanger. Make the tree view hidden by default.
2. Reinstate the important right-click shortcuts.... Open fuel bay, drone bay, ships hanger, ore hold, ship maintenance bay, Corp hanger. Again, make these windows remember size and position, and reinstate the tabs on the Corp hanger. It REALLY REALLY is not a bad thing to have important stuff in the right-click menu when it improves functionality. Like others have said, remove some of the redundant ones instead, like undock etc.
3. Double clicking in your main hanger should open your cargo ONLY. Not the whole inventory, thatGÇÖs what the button on the Neocom is for. Make this window remember size and position and make the tree view hidden by default. Same applies when clicking the cargo icon while in space.
4. Open a wreck in a new window. Make this window remember size and position. Keep the loot all button.
5. Give an option to hide the ISK value from the inventory windows, it is not something that we would use all the time, it just takes up space. It can be un-hidden when needed.
6. Reduce the size of the volume bar at the top of the window. Again, it just takes up space, revert to the previous thinner bar.
I cannot believe that this stuff would be difficult to implement, and it would go a long way to reducing the rage most people are feeling at the moment.
|
Tauro Smolt
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 10:07:00 -
[302] - Quote
-Ñ-¦-à,-+-+-Å-Å-Åt-î. EVE FOREVER THE BEST. |
Bim bo
Mindstar Technology Executive Outcomes
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 10:08:00 -
[303] - Quote
U broke the game ofc u should work on holiday soundwave! infact call in more ppl and fix it. new inventory is broke and even makes u lag out when dealing with small amounts in cap ship.JB resources even lag when open'ed. give us old system back tweak that, dont make eve players have to go with less quality because of ur new console game. eveplayers already paid plenty for that!
Give us back old inventory. |
Blue Harrier
99
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 10:10:00 -
[304] - Quote
You requested feedback on things that would make things tolerable for us the users; these are the GÇÿimprovementsGÇÖ that would make the UI work for me;
First, bring back the single click buttons (or right click menu options), to do all the things we used to do. Open cargo hold while docked (on our active ship or another of our assembled but not active, ships), the Orca ore hold, maintenance bay and corp hangers, station containers, etc and get rid of the Captains Quarters and other right click GÇÿfluffGÇÖ options.
Make all windows remember the location, size, dependency, contents, and for goodness sake display the name of the container in the top window bar, just the name not all the other GÇÿstuffGÇÖ I know itGÇÖs an GÇÿInventoryGÇÖ what I want to know is which inventory.
Let me open a new complete window by shift (or double) clicking the Neocom button a second time so the window opens alongside the first window. The number of times IGÇÖve tried doing that is beyond counting.
Let me save my filters to either a personal folder or a corp folder, or let me export and import them.
Also as I posted once before I am a visual not a text person, I like pictures, I like to sort or search with pictures, searching or filtering with text is fine if you know the name of what youGÇÖre looking for. This really hit me today when I was looking for a module but had no idea of the name but I could remember what it looked like.
As others have said, this would have been excellent used for the assets inventory and if you had tried just using it for that so we could use it in anger and give feedback it would have eased us into the change without all the anger you have today.
"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982. |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
116
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 10:15:00 -
[305] - Quote
Quote from the Blog:
GÇ£Ship Hangars: Your active ship will be displayed in the ship hangar. It was a bit confusing that it would disappear. All assembled ships will now be displayed, regardless of activity state.GÇ¥
What about unassembled ships? They are still ermmm..... ships.
|
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
771
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 10:22:00 -
[306] - Quote
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:CCP Optimal wrote:I've not been able to be very active on the forums for the last couple of days simple because my time is better spent fixing defects as it is.
First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers. We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly.
Revamping a fundamental system, used by every single player, such as the inventory system so that it will fit every player's needs and expectations from day one is a tall order to say the least. There is probably no other system within EVE that is as multidimensional as the inventory and the use cases seem to be endless. The old system had not changed much at all and most of you veterans could probably operate it at lightning speeds blindfolded. Having to waste time re-learning basic things is annoying as hell and I get it. I've been there myself. I would be pretty furious if someone forced me to use a different Python editor, and it would probably slow me down tremendously for the first couple of days or even weeks. A fitting punishment for my crimes maybe?
THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. We identified the inventory as being one of the biggest violator and that's why we went on this journey (not because we like to spend Sunday afternoons on the EVE forums, lovely as they are, mind you!). A lot of things have changed in the world of user interfaces during the last 10 years, and I think it's safe to say that a game shipping with the old EVE inventory system EVE today would receive mixed reviews.
The old system had been brewing out in the wild for 9 years, but the new one for less than a week, so obviously it has not received the same amount of updates and fixes. We are, and will be working hard to make sure that no matter your profession in EVE, you will have an equally or faster way of doing what you need to do.
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Making it optional is also not optional (confusingly enough) as it would require us to maintain two systems side by side which would cause an exponential increase in code and interface complexity if we were to make a habit of it. It's not as simple or as good of an idea as it might seem at first.
One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it. When we do, people without exceptions ask for the old one back. Doing both is obviously impossible. There is still work to be done and work we shall. Words fail me. I'm honestly at a complete loss at what to say in reply to this. I was expecting a reasoned rational for the changes, instead we get another 'I'm right and your wrong' from one of the dynamic duo. Firstly I want numbers boy. The biggest complaint was the number of windows at anytime? I've played this game for three years and been socially active on the forums, traveled to Fanfest and London meets and I have never, EVER heard anyone make this complaint. So if your're going to use that as an excuse for your poor performance I want the numbers of complaints about the UI, the number of the complaints about the numbers of windows and I want them as a percentage of the total number of complaints about EVE. It that percentage is less than 30 percent, all that should tell anyone with an intelligence greater than a used teabag is that 70 percent of people were happy with the old UI and it should be low on your list of priorities. Your claiming that feedback and suggestions were acted upon in Sisi? Sorry I was there, and that frankly is a bare faced lie. If you had truely listened, acted and followed through the proof of that would be that your precious Unifubared Inventory would still be on Sisi getting debugged. So your either lying or so far removed from reality that I'd worry about giving you a pair of scissors. Your begging us to give it a try???!!!! What in the hell do you think we've doing for 5 weeks???!!!!!! This amount of rage about your deeply, deeply flawed concept doesn't come from people who don't like change it's coming from people who have tried this muddled mess and guess what? WE DON'T LIKE IT!! Hate it in fact. No amount of trying it is going to alter that fact. The game is virtually unplayable using it. Or perhaps I should say virtually unplayable and still enjoy it. I'm not going to tell how to fix it. If you haven't figured out how to from all we've said here, the Sisi forums and the complaints then you shouldn't be working in this job. You are still living this dream world, where if you build it they will come Optimal. After everything that has been pointed out about the failings of this misguided adventure, you're still defending your Unifubared Inventory like a petulant 5 year old. Now allow to Soundwave to continue to try and fix the mess you and Arrow made. We prefer talking to grown-up here.
I wish I could fit all of these words into my sig.
Can we lock this thread after someone has quoted it? I mean, these words REALLY need to sink into CCP Optimal. He doesn't get it at all.
I mean, is anyone else in CCP agreeing with CCP Optimal's outlook on this?
So far, we've got Soundwave apologizing and other dev's boasting about their work and making sure we know that the inventory is not theirs.
Anyone else wanna step up to defend optimal?
A list of fixes for the new inventory
Dual Pane idea clicky |
Tequila Breeze
Austudy The Welfare State
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 10:27:00 -
[307] - Quote
The best improvement to the game would be to put down your intolerant behaviour to our feedbacks! You ask for it, We reply to it, You ignore us ! WTF ! |
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope Gallente Federation
143
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 10:48:00 -
[308] - Quote
Dirch Passer wrote:Okay, "I want the old UI back", "ROLLBACK NAO", "I want xxxx FIRED" etc. is getting old now. I'm fairly certain that every single employee at CCP got the message: this mess isn't good enough!. Except they haven't, they're continuing to try and fix a broken pile of spaghetti code and stupid design decisions on a production server. They haven't listened to a goddamn thing.
This isn't hard to do, guys. Make a branch just for your stupid UI pet project and shove it onto SiSi so people can provide feedback and get it back to a functional level. Oh, and you should listen to this feedback instead of dismissing it like you did for an entire four weeks. You should also make the whole thing optional.
In the meantime, revert the UI code for TQ until SiSi says the new ****'s ready.
Then, I want you people to put down your keyboards and go back to university and re-learn Quality Control. Don't touch EVE until you and the rest of your team know what the hell you're doing.
Is this rude? Yes. Did you deserve it for not listening to beta testing feedback on SiSi and continuing to ignore feedback after a disaster of a deployment? Absolutely. How to Improve Quality Assurance at CCP
Professional Programmer, DBA, Game Developer and Systems Analyst |
arria Auscent
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 10:52:00 -
[309] - Quote
the only way you CANT use the old UI is if you deleted all the code and backups, which you have not done
What you mean to say is you WONT give us an option to use the old UI You WONT rollback to the old UI
Any dev thats says CANT should be fired for incompetence |
Abigail Sagan
Active Fusion Cold Fusion.
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 10:54:00 -
[310] - Quote
I haven't seen anyone reporting this one yet: This is only a minor thing since it does not seem to affect performance noticeably, but we can currently open multiple windows of the cargohold of the same ship at once. Ie: By shift clicking enough we can have twenty+ instances of the same cargohold open. I don't see any reason to allow that - if there is some rationale for that, don't mind me. I guess this is in part the reason why the windows don't remember their place & state too well.
Maybe the same applies to other containers too, I don't think I tested that.
And also CCP, in case you didn't realize it yet, your biggest mistake with the new UI is, that you ignored much of the player input from SiSi testing and put the new and 'improved' UI to Tranquility. If you hadn't ignored the player input, you would have had one less PR fiasco to worry about.
|
|
Ikeo58
Vermis foramen Industrius Union 0f Revolution
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 11:00:00 -
[311] - Quote
Im looking forward to the naming of Corp Hangers - Will this also apply to ship maintenance arrays?
Perhaps when setting the name we can have a "Read permission set" I.E Set the Hanger/Array name to either Alliance, Corporation or Public wide broadcast. This will avoid naming the hanger "Faction stuffs" and having a local spike |
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope Gallente Federation
144
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 11:05:00 -
[312] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:I've not been able to be very active on the forums for the last couple of days simple because my time is better spent fixing defects as it is.
First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers. We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly.
Revamping a fundamental system, used by every single player, such as the inventory system so that it will fit every player's needs and expectations from day one is a tall order to say the least. There is probably no other system within EVE that is as multidimensional as the inventory and the use cases seem to be endless. The old system had not changed much at all and most of you veterans could probably operate it at lightning speeds blindfolded. Having to waste time re-learning basic things is annoying as hell and I get it. I've been there myself. I would be pretty furious if someone forced me to use a different Python editor, and it would probably slow me down tremendously for the first couple of days or even weeks. A fitting punishment for my crimes maybe?
THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. We identified the inventory as being one of the biggest violator and that's why we went on this journey (not because we like to spend Sunday afternoons on the EVE forums, lovely as they are, mind you!). A lot of things have changed in the world of user interfaces during the last 10 years, and I think it's safe to say that a game shipping with the old EVE inventory system EVE today would receive mixed reviews.
The old system had been brewing out in the wild for 9 years, but the new one for less than a week, so obviously it has not received the same amount of updates and fixes. We are, and will be working hard to make sure that no matter your profession in EVE, you will have an equally or faster way of doing what you need to do.
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Making it optional is also not optional (confusingly enough) as it would require us to maintain two systems side by side which would cause an exponential increase in code and interface complexity if we were to make a habit of it. It's not as simple or as good of an idea as it might seem at first.
One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it. When we do, people without exceptions ask for the old one back. Doing both is obviously impossible. There is still work to be done and work we shall.
First of all, again, I am a software engineer and systems analyst with at least a decade of experience, and an Associate's Degree (with a Bachelors' on the way) to back up that experience, which is spread across multiple operating systems, programming languages, scripting languages, and dozens of released products, one of which is a commercial product. Now that I've qualified myself:
You're absolutely, positively full of **** and I'm beginning to wonder if you know what the hell you're doing or even talking about.
It is absolutely possible to refactor the code to run either of two UIs, one being your fancy, smooth, and broken UI pet project that most everyone hates, and the other being the old but working UI everyone apparently loves.
Let me demonstrate with some vaguely python-like psuedocode:
[code] # In your startup methods somewhere:
# Does our user want to use the new UI? if 'wantsOldUI' in userConfig and userConfig['wantsOldUI]: InitializeOldUI() else: InitializeNewUI() # Default to new UI if they don't want it or haven't specified a preference. [/code]
You can do the same exact **** for all your events that you receive from the server.
If you can't figure it out, I'd be absolutely happy to work on it in what little free time I have, under any NDA and without payment, as long as you douchebags give me credit. Yes, it's absolutely possible you have done something on the server to break the old UI, but I suspect it wouldn't be very hard to work around that. How to Improve Quality Assurance at CCP
Professional Programmer, DBA, Game Developer and Systems Analyst |
Davina Sienar
The Misinterpretation of Silence Mean Coalition
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 11:06:00 -
[313] - Quote
SO... ok... U going to fix it with weekly patches... any ETA for beeing ready ? See: 1 week already gone... if it takes 3 more weeks till useable we will have paid 1 full month of gametime to wait till we can play again..
any compensation ? 1 month free gametime ? 1 Plex for free ?
get rid of that est. value ISK-Thing ASAP. guess it creates most of the lag if that tool is trying to calculate all the stuff in the tree again and again everytime i move 1 item to another "folder"
-> I shoot 50 missiles and hit reload, now its cargo -50 scourge -> recalc. -> approach wreck/open -> calc value of wreck -> I loot wreck, so its -> cargo + cargo of wreck recalc. and so on....
or when I land at POS and it starts to calc the value of all the stuff there -¦-¦ [and most of the values are wrong anyways]
and now for the funny part:
if u love that tree filemanager of windoz so much... why just not unify the neocom completely ? instead a [windos] button , put a big [E] button in lower left corner and stuff EVERYTHING into that ^^^^
|
cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers Ignore This.
58
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 11:07:00 -
[314] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:I can certainly agree that there are systems within EVE much more broken than the old inventory, but you have to weight in that inventory is something used by everyone, so it might make sense to start there and do, for example, the corp window later as it's only used by a portion of the players even though it's way more messed up. We did not ignore feedback at all. In some cases we didn't agree. In some cases we did agree and made changes. In some cases we felt that players weren't even giving the new proposed way of doing things a chance and that it might just be a matter of getting used to. It's certain that we didn't get everything right the first time around. That's why we have iteration. cBOLTSON wrote:I honestly dont get you guys. CCP as a games developer has to be the single strangest and most counter-intuitive company on the planet.
There are many many reasons and many things that you have done. This Unified inventory is a snap shot of why your game will eventually go to the gutter if you carry on.
Put simply, what possesed you to 'fix' something that wasnt broken? Out of all of the problems , all of the issues people have with the game you guys pick the one system that worked just fine. I agree that EVE`s interface is very old and very bad but it worked. If you want to make eves ui better the whole thing needs to be tore apart. Have the UI like you do in your videos. Thats something you guys have mentioned before that you will never ever do.
Dont get us wrong, we DO want improved shineys. Just not when the price is total functionality loss.
Come on guys you had SO much feedback on the test server forums, people like Zagdul, Tippia and others spent a lot of time documenting real basic issues. Why was the many pages of advice and feedback ignored?
Dont say you didnt ignore it as you DID plain and simple.
Final toughts - Im personally happy you are looking into this. I am hoping the UI will eventually be just as good if not better than the old system. Just wish you guys didnt allways rush to get half baked projects out like you lifes depend on it... lol
First off , thankyou for the reply. However, it pains me to say this, you are straight up liying to us now.
Player feedback for the most part was ignored. Dont come here trying to pull the wool over our eyes. Zagdul commented himself as well as others. This is the proof we are being liyed to.
You agree that it was one of the systems not terribly broken and other things were worse. So why did you as a company decide to purge the old UI? Considering other systems are of much higher importance to the general community?
So in your mind, when a player has to use a system with reduced functionality and then decides to post bad feedback - this is them not giving the new system a chance?
Have you actually used the new system? We cannot even see our active ship in the hanger. Such basic things missing. Ignore This.-á "Were not elitists, were just tired of fail" - The Sorn |
Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
106
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 11:15:00 -
[315] - Quote
Hmm It's good to see some rapid improvement, however after a momentary pause to consider, I still want to go back t the old system. You can dress a pig in silk but it still eats ****.
I don't see the rage storm falling back until the new system is coded with the functionality of the old one.... I know lets just use the old one. |
Invisusira
The Rising Stars Academy
55
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 11:20:00 -
[316] - Quote
-> Persistant open windows when docked in station so we don't have to re-open everything every single time we dock. <- |
Mangone
Domination. En Garde
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 11:26:00 -
[317] - Quote
I dont still see any fixes on that problem when u undock/redock it doesnt remember what windows u had open and u need to reopen them every single time u redock. Thats very frustrating and time consuming if u do alot docking and sorting in stations.. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
704
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 11:27:00 -
[318] - Quote
You know what would be sweet? Have a single window split into several columns/rows, one for each new container, making a sort of table so we could drag from a cell to another. Individual cells in the table could also be dragged out to span as new windows if necessary, and conversely windows could be dragged into the main inventory window and become a part of the "table".
That would save screen space and would make easier the basical "drag from A to B" operation.
Admitedly, i am not a Ui designer, but that kind of "split window" interface is something i miss a lot in present day computers. Navigation tabs are fine, but sometimes i just would like to have several windows open at once in a single window space, much as the primitive 3D Studio Max interface did.
BTW, I am aware that we can drag from the active window to the tree so having multiple windows open is not necessary. Yet, regretfully that action is a precission movement and the Ui is so slow that often I end up expanding the tree beofre being sure that the cursor is in the right place to not drop my stuff in a wrong container (which iv'e done too often as even with the Ui at 110% the tree is too small for my eyesight)
Comfort is not one of the UI's strong points. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Samuella II
SON OF RAVANA
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 11:36:00 -
[319] - Quote
Why do we only have 7 tabs in corp hangar btw ??? Compared to a variety of items, size of some corporations and other factors this is kinda idiotic.
|
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 12:05:00 -
[320] - Quote
Aaarrrggh wrote:I dislike the extra space taken up by the top / bottom and side of the new system windows for info I'm not interested in This, a hundred times this ^^^^ |
|
Kalzin Maya
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 12:18:00 -
[321] - Quote
will this fix container locking? |
Phiad Aurilen
Only fools 'n' horses Comic Mischief
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 12:34:00 -
[322] - Quote
I'm adding my voice to this as a way of marking my vote against the current UI.
How did this pass muster I wonder? Are there only 2 people working on the overhaul of Eve's UI & its code hooks? If it is only 2 people with understanding then that's the problem, not enough cooks & too many dishes.
My issues are the same as most regarding the UI but i'll add some others that need attention as well.
The Tree list needs a overhaul, the text is barely readable with some colour schemes.
The scroll bar need sorting, to be better defined + I should be able to grab it with my mouse.
The Estimated ISK value is useless. Example :- Found a Dread Guristas Copper Tag. It was estimated to be worth over 400k upon docking I realised that that is not an average price & it certainly isn't being brought/sold for that price in my current local region. Pointless get rid of it. I can find markets well enough without being spoon fed by the client phoning home to work out the value of crap I'm only going to scrap.
Salvaging is a complete pain in the arse now. I went out in a Noctis & tried out the UI with multiple wrecks.. Omfg.. it was taking forever to go from A >B with one wreck.. then I realised i could have got there quicker if I hadn't taken an Optimal Arrow to the knee. ( I don't blame you two :) )
Should have held it on SISI & had a vote/questionnaire in place to gather hardcore players opinions on features options. |
Zammo Bahrut
Banana On A Plate Ascendance.
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 12:37:00 -
[323] - Quote
While I appreciate the forward approach to 'progress' the new UI adds nothing and has, in short, added only further inconvenience to my gameplay in eve.
I am firmly a jack of all trades and I've found the new UI hinders all that I do...
* Can flipping;- SHIFT-click all the things * Mission running / loot harvesting;- no 'easy stack' of lootable containers, just the one ever present over-awkward lootable can that refreshes into other cans and I find the process annoying rather than simple. * Planetary interaction;- SHIFT-click all the things (cargo hold / customs office and/or space containers) * P.O.S;- really don't even start me off on this, this alone is a ruddy joke and a shining example of how over bloated the new UI is. *docking for ship refitting etc SHIFT-click all the things
the fact is, in nearly every circumstance in which I need access to containers I have multiple windows open as it is simply the easiest way to perform function. All this new UI brings to the table is a 'mother' window which refreshes to whatever it damn well pleases and several daughter windows which close upon any change of session in game requiring them to be re-opened.
TL:DR I now have to open MORE things than I did previously to get the same job done.
There is a reason operating systems to this very day still operate on a 'multiple window' theory.. IT WORKS I don't open my emails in MS excel and I don't browse the web via my teamspeak client. |
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
75
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 12:39:00 -
[324] - Quote
Masamune Dekoro wrote:Just let people drag out individual subfolders into separate windows and most of the tears should stop.
I disagree. This is already the purported fix stated on the dev blog. Even once this becomes an option, you still have to find what you want to drag out. Opening a station hangar or a corp hangar in a new window should not involve scrolling through hundreds of items in a tree. And "dragging out" all 7 divisions of a corp hangar every time you want to access said hangar is still a pretty poor substitute for what we had prior with one single click.
end reply/
Scrolling aside, I don't even like these locations being treated like files in a tree. The station hangar is a file division. The corp hangar is a file division. The ship hangar is a file division. etc. etc. Even though we know our hangars are folders on some operating system somewhere in Europe, we suspend our disbelief in-game. When I had a station hangar icon at the bottom of the neocom, for me, it was part of the station. Oooh...the corp hangar icon is over on the other side with the office listings. That was a separate part of the station. Now its all just files in a tree. This is why so many are calling the new UI "Windows 3.1 in space." I think something was lost that goes beyond efficiency and functionality with this change. Why even have stations? Let's just fly to a gigantic CHA in space. We don't even need to dock.
I've been so focused on trying to get the primary interface back to single-click, multi-window functionality again that I haven't even been worried about all the lost right-click functionality. (And I really wish people would stop saying "a million windows" or "a hundred windows" when describing the old interface. I think most people use 3-5 simultaneously.) But absolutely the absence of all the previous ship right click options is a whole other loss of single click functionality in lieu of more scroll hunting. The loss of efficiency in the new UI is just staggering. This is not resistance to change. This is aknowledgement of inferiority.
I'm a little worried that if reducing the number of open windows was done to ease server lag, or to make the shinies like the isk calculator "not" be drag on the server, that CCP may be resistant to giving us basically the old system with the new code - as multiplying shinies would only then increase server issues. They already have lag problems. (But if so many tree-navigation lovers are really out there, this must be a false premise right?) Just in case, I'm proposing that the neocom buttons to the station hangars pop up without the tree or the shinies by default. Hell, make the tree minimized by default in all situations. I'd love to never see it again.
I don't think I like the idea of having one window still with 3 or 4 divisions in it either as someone earlier suggested. A DIVIDED unified interface just sounds like a way to make the current situation worse. A hangar should really be a separate unique location. It should open like a new location. In a new window.
And, when am I ever going to get one of these surveys? I've never been polled and I'd sure like to be a part of all this "community feedback."
Yonis Kador |
Marisol Shimaya
Artic Circle The I.D.E.A.
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 12:53:00 -
[325] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:I can certainly agree that there are systems within EVE much more broken than the old inventory, but you have to weight in that inventory is something used by everyone, so it might make sense to start there and do, for example, the corp window later as it's only used by a portion of the players even though it's way more messed up.
We did not ignore feedback at all. In some cases we didn't agree. In some cases we did agree and made changes. In some cases we felt that players weren't even giving the new proposed way of doing things a chance and that it might just be a matter of getting used to. It's certain that we didn't get everything right the first time around. That's why we have iteration.
You agreed something about the new system are not perfect and the UI Inventory box we had was the best and our complaining are the best way to make the CCP listen and we might still complaining to the UI is fix in our way.
If Eve will or CCP will still do their way to make us unhappy. I'll think that all player will loose faith in CCP and leave the game they love to play. Many player has already deleted their account and if this trendy will go on until CCP make the change back were it was before.
So CCP I wonder what next we will complainning about. Fight For Our Rights |
Captain Praxis
EVE University Ivy League
66
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 12:53:00 -
[326] - Quote
Yonis Kador wrote: ... Even though we know our hangars are folders on some operating system somewhere in Europe, we suspend our disbelief in-game. When I had a station hangar icon at the bottom of the neocom, for me, it was part of the station. Oooh...the corp hangar icon is over on the other side with the office listings. That was a separate part of the station. Now its all just files in a tree. ...
Yup, I totally agree with you on this point, and it's one that nobody else has mentioned. By the same in-galaxy rationale, wrecks cans, etc. should all be separate windows too, since they're separate objects in space, and not a part of our ship or station.
The old UI definitely made more sense in the context of the separate entities (hangars, ships, things in space) that we interact with, and reinforced the believability/suspension of disbelief much more than the current UI.
It would make a lot more sense for the new UI to replace the Asset finder than the "Inventory" (which, as has been pointed out, doesn't really exist per se in-galaxy). |
Mar Drakar
LDK Test Alliance Please Ignore
40
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 12:54:00 -
[327] - Quote
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote: [code] # In your startup methods somewhere:
# Does our user want to use the new UI? if 'wantsOldUI' in userConfig and userConfig['wantsOldUI]: InitializeOldUI() else: InitializeNewUI() # Default to new UI if they don't want it or haven't specified a preference. [/code]
You are soooo full of it.
You assume that both old and new have the same hooks to the overall engine You assume that it is feasible to implement new UI "interface" for old inventory engine...
The fact that you do not (want to?) comprehend that everything changed in a way that going back is not an option disqualifies you from deciding.
Also CCP - keep iterating, add explanations, features, back/forward buttons and some other bells and whistles, and in the end every QQing hater in this thread will just have to DEAL WITH IT.
|
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope Gallente Federation
146
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 13:04:00 -
[328] - Quote
Mar Drakar wrote:Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote: [code] # In your startup methods somewhere:
# Does our user want to use the new UI? if 'wantsOldUI' in userConfig and userConfig['wantsOldUI]: InitializeOldUI() else: InitializeNewUI() # Default to new UI if they don't want it or haven't specified a preference. [/code]
You are soooo full of it. You assume that both old and new have the same hooks to the overall engine You assume that it is feasible to implement new UI "interface" for old inventory engine...
And you didn't read the entire post. I said that it's easy to work around those differences.
Plus, if they're using a model-view-controller design, there shouldn't be such a huge goddamn problem. Loot All button calls OnLootAllPressed in the form's class, which then calls activeContainer->LootAllTo(cargoHold).
Seriously, this **** isn't rocket science.
Also, I said not to roll back the entire UI, just the inventory, which is the part that CCP changed and totally ****** up. How to Improve Quality Assurance at CCP
Professional Programmer, DBA, Game Developer and Systems Analyst |
Vizen Horizon
TORCHWOOD CREATION
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 13:11:00 -
[329] - Quote
To much work and confusion to do simple things, please give an option to switch to old style. I tried moving things to/from hanger , carrier hanger, items, ship hanger, carier ship hanger, and can 's and wow, just aweful . I almost got enough windows setup and open to what I needed and then another window changed when i needed one more window and lost the original window . This is taking a 3 min task into a 30 min project. I'm not sure if I will play anymore today . I might log back in later see if I can try to configure mutiple ships w/ different mods and try to get that into a carrier from all these hangers and item spots but because it is such a project now, I'm feeling like this is really the turning point where the game is not playable and non-fun( least for some). I think zounds of us are saying why, why, why. |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
122
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 13:17:00 -
[330] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:We did not ignore feedback at all. In some cases we didn't agree. In some cases we did agree and made changes. In some cases we felt that players weren't even giving the new proposed way of doing things a chance and that it might just be a matter of getting used to. It's certain that we didn't get everything right the first time around. That's why we have iteration.
No one expects that everything will be perfect first time around, and this was so far from being anything like half-way useable.
However, you do your testing and iteration on SISI, not on TQ.
That is why you HAVE SISI, ffs.
|
|
T1nyMan
Interstellar Solutions Agency
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 13:32:00 -
[331] - Quote
Ok ok, just to give myself some credibility 2+2=3 and I'm a soft werewolf engine ear.
The new ui needs some work.. The capacity total does not take into account your skills or fitting if you are not actively in the ship for example (the bar chart at the top of the window) but I think th UI in general has promise.
Its out there now and I remain confident that you are making it a priority to fix it. Thanks for that and great expansion overall.
I do however think that you guys are involved in some sort of conspiracy to ruin my life and I plan to unravel it with my clever yet clearly irrational wit... Oh no wait I had myself confused with some others in this thread. |
Rattus Norwegius
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 13:36:00 -
[332] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote: Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible).
So you release a (at best) half-finished, bug ridden, functionality-reducing "feature" that have received overwhelmingly negative feedback on the testserver on to the live production server(and only source of income) in a non-reversible way?
Are you mad?!?
|
Mangone
Domination. En Garde
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 13:42:00 -
[333] - Quote
Captain Praxis wrote:CCP Optimal wrote: *Hubris*
I was pretty optimistic over the weekend after reading CCP Soundwave's posts as it seemed that CCP were going to be addressing my concerns and restoring the lost functionality. Now, after seeing CCP Optimal's post, I'm getting the feeling that CCP may not be as committed as I had thought to sorting out the issues. Can we get a concrete answer as to whether the following features are definitely going to be re-implemented?1) - Persistent multiple windows that remeber their size, position and function over session changes and log-outs/log-ins 2) - Separate Ship Hangar & Item Hangar buttons on the Neocom by default (or the ability to add them if they are not default), that open said hangars in separate windows (without a tree), at the same size/position as when they were last open 3) - Having wrecks and cans open in individual windows (without a tree), all at the same size/position as when they were last open 4) - Having the Open Cargohold button on the in-space HUD open the ship's cargo hold in a separate window (without a tree), at the same size/position as when it was last open 5) - Restoration of the missing right-click functions (e.g. Open Drone Bay, Open Fuel Bay, etc...) You may have noticed the subtle hints above that I hate using trees for navigation. I don't even use the tree in the Market window unless there's no other option to find what I'm looking for.
+1 for this. These are biggest issues i got with this UI. Ive been trying to told this in several threads but i still see no fixes to what is biggest problem atm imo.
"1) - Persistent multiple windows that remeber their size, position and function over session changes and log-outs/log-ins
2) - Separate Ship Hangar & Item Hangar buttons on the Neocom by default (or the ability to add them if they are not default), that open said hangars in separate windows (without a tree), at the same size/position as when they were last open"
|
Smoke Adian
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 13:58:00 -
[334] - Quote
You can't fix this - the whole system is based on a flawed design.
The center piece of the new inventory system is that it is all available in one window, but 90% of the feedback is people asking for and trying to develop work-arounds to return the system to it's old multiple window functionality.
There was nothing wrong with the old system. If I want to see items I click items, if I want to see ships I click ships. If I want them in the same window I just drag them together and get tabs.
What has the new system accomplished? Was more clicks the goal? A reduction in customizability? A decrease in screen real estate thanks to an additional menu and a price estimator that let's be honest is a gimmick?
These are questions you need to ask as you attempt to salvage a system designed on a one window principle that is inconvenient and unwanted. This isn't like the font change complaints where people were just throwing opinions around. In this case people are presenting valid functionality reasons why the old system provided a better user experience.
Now based on your track record, I know that you guys will cling to your new system and refuse to admit defeat. So I'll just accept that and ask, bear minimum, could you please, please provide two separate neocom buttons for the ship hanger and item hanger so I can close the extra tree menu and never see it again? Could you also default these two buttons or provide a way for them to open in separate windows?
[edit] Also, like people are saying, we need a fix to keep windows where they are placed each time they are reopened. This has been a reoccuring issue for years that effects various aspects of the ui. Fixes have been promised countless times but this issue continues to persist. |
Euphoria Loreen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 14:05:00 -
[335] - Quote
EVE Player
I have just found out the new Inventory box is not great but it will be better when they fix it the problems causes. So I hope the CCP will bring back some off it back and make some changes so everybody wil like,
Stay on
Seek no fear!!! |
Mar Drakar
LDK Test Alliance Please Ignore
40
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 14:07:00 -
[336] - Quote
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote:Mar Drakar wrote:Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote: [code] # In your startup methods somewhere:
# Does our user want to use the new UI? if 'wantsOldUI' in userConfig and userConfig['wantsOldUI]: InitializeOldUI() else: InitializeNewUI() # Default to new UI if they don't want it or haven't specified a preference. [/code]
You are soooo full of it. You assume that both old and new have the same hooks to the overall engine You assume that it is feasible to implement new UI "interface" for old inventory engine... And you didn't read the entire post. I said that it's easy to work around those differences. Plus, if they're using a model-view-controller design, there shouldn't be such a huge goddamn problem. Loot All button calls OnLootAllPressed in the form's class, which then calls activeContainer->LootAllTo(cargoHold). Seriously, this **** isn't rocket science. Also, I said not to roll back the entire UI, just the inventory, which is the part that CCP changed and totally ****** up.
And yo uassume that they are using proper MVC for what particular reason? afaik client is a mashup of C, python and god knows what else, and executions etc are spread all over the place (server and client)... I just don't see any reason t oassume that inventor "module" is pluggable piece of eve, especially since it was used and abused since the inception of even...
In ideal world - yeah all software should be decoupled as hell, and everything should be covered by tests and change'able/pluggable, but from my 7 analysts years - this is almost never the case.
|
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 14:39:00 -
[337] - Quote
Captain Praxis wrote:Yonis Kador wrote: ... Even though we know our hangars are folders on some operating system somewhere in Europe, we suspend our disbelief in-game. When I had a station hangar icon at the bottom of the neocom, for me, it was part of the station. Oooh...the corp hangar icon is over on the other side with the office listings. That was a separate part of the station. Now its all just files in a tree. ...
Yup, I totally agree with you on this point, and it's one that nobody else has mentioned. By the same in-galaxy rationale, wrecks cans, etc. should all be separate windows too, since they're separate objects in space, and not a part of our ship or station. The old UI definitely made more sense in the context of the separate entities (hangars, ships, things in space) that we interact with, and reinforced the believability/suspension of disbelief much more than the current UI. It would make a lot more sense for the new UI to replace the Asset finder than the "Inventory" (which, as has been pointed out, doesn't really exist per se in-galaxy).
Totally logical. |
Di Mulle
72
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 15:00:00 -
[338] - Quote
Mar Drakar wrote: Also CCP - keep iterating, add explanations, features, back/forward buttons and some other bells and whistles, and in the end every QQing hater in this thread will just have to DEAL WITH IT.
As I understand, your biggest wish is for someone to DEAL WITH IT. Doesn't matter who, doesn't matter deal with what, is it better, is it worse, is it irrelevant, whatever.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>> |
Lord Wickham
Green Eagle Research Punch Drunk Lemmings
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 15:05:00 -
[339] - Quote
when you open cargo or drone bay from your active ship pls for gods sake make it open in a new window? its entirely frustrating to open your cargo for it to replace your items hanger which you need to have open to drag your ammo or stuff that needs transporting. why isn't this automatic? if i open my drone bay in a station its cos i need to put drones into it! i dont want it to replace my items hanger so that i yet again have to scroll down the list to the items hanger then scroll through the items hanger to find the drones that i already had selected to drop into the drone bay.
i still say you should revert to the old way damn it. why yet again do we have some half assed implementation of a system we neither want nor like. maybe if you hadn't rushed this through you could have had more bug reports and more people telling you THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA! |
Haifisch Zahne
HZ Corp
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 15:08:00 -
[340] - Quote
Well, now that I look over the dev blog Comments, it is amazing to discover that NO ONE has any serious and especially nasty complaints about the new Unified Inventory. It is no wonder that CCP never responds to player complaints, THERE ARE NONE!
CCP Phantom wrote:Off topic and non-constructive posts removed.
Please remember that this thread is to discuss the devblog in a constructive way. We know how much unhappiness and dissatisfaction was created, but to resolve this situation as fast as possible, it is necessary to have your posts right on the topic while being constructive. This way our developers can read in an efficiently way your feedback and do not need to spend unnecessary time filtering out off topic posts.
Thank you for your help!
|
|
Sum Olgy
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 15:08:00 -
[341] - Quote
Ok the new Inventory system is here to stay. We got that.
So, moving on....
Speed is where it's at. It has to be at least as fast as the old system. Opening the Inventory and loading up *everything* in range* is just dog slow and a terrible way to do a data lookup. For instance, the only time I ever care what is in a POS gun is when I've just anchored it - i.e. did I put ammo in or not? I will never care or wonder again as to the contents of a POS gun!!!! Well, until I get sieged, but by then it's all too late.
What I'd *like* is to have an overview type pre-filter system where I can click on an icon in the neocom that only opens say 'My Ships Cargo Hold' or the 'Top SMA in our POS'. 90% of the things I do with the inventory are only actually a very few operations.
However, it seems to me that upon opening the Inventory you do a database fetch to get everything and only once this has completed do you get the option to filter the results. Why? If, like 99% of the time have no interest in POS guns why load them in the first place?
Oh and the sorting/stacking function is awfully slow, so much to the point where the client lags horribly. I've learned not to stack while I'm salvaging and any team speak requests as to 'how many nano-ribbons have we got' will be regarded with scorn, disappointment and a fond reminiscence of the good old days....
*For a given value of *range* - I'm guessing this is anything on grid that I can interact with? |
Jagoff Haverford
WISE OUTCASTS Eternal Evocations
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 15:09:00 -
[342] - Quote
Please let me copy the inventory details in any given window and past them into Excel. I really got used to doing that in the last month (when this functionality was released with Escalation), and it helped me make plans for industry jobs and PI. |
Dennie Fleetfoot
EVE University Ivy League
166
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 15:25:00 -
[343] - Quote
Just sussed it all out.
There's a new skill coming that cost 10 plex that adds all the functionality of the old inventory back.
I'd pay if that's what I got. |
darius1818
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 15:27:00 -
[344] - Quote
Prince aikka wrote:When is it planed to fix corp members accessing corp hangers in station? as things sit now the only ones in our corp that can access the corp hangers is Directors because of this error "You have been denied access for the following reason: You require take access to open the container requested." Would be nice to fix this one soon. i totally agree with that Prince. It is really getting to be a pain in arse. could we please have this issue fixed sometime soon . At least a acknowledgement of the problem would be nice. You asked for feedback and we are giveing it to you, |
TheSmokingHertog
Black Hole INC
45
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 15:56:00 -
[345] - Quote
When opening a container out of the items window within a station, you have to double click the container to get it open, please change the overall click to double click, or change the opening inside an inventory shift clicked field another shift click.
And I will repeat this here:
Quote:
- Remove the prefix on containers / inventory windows dragged out of the main inventory window, or reverse the nameset, make my custom name first show, and then the prefix, so I can identify tabbed inventroy windows or containers on the number given to the container. (1, ammo 2, skillbooks, 3 etc)...
- Please let he main inventory window remain the focus of your mouse / keyboard until I activate another focuspoint with my mouse, distribution of items to several endpoints (Jita, Dodixie, etc), has now several extra steps, since my stock inventory container looses focus each time, now I have to shift click it and drag / drop from this container, it would be great if I could work with less windows as this update intended.
- Can we get the fill bar of containers seen as a little bar on the main inventory tree?
- If containers remember not only the location in space / in station, but also the sorting / display state of set window.
- Please let containers within the inventory tree have another inventory listing setting as the main window and let them be remembered on container level.
- Please let us assign a primary key to the for us important inventory management position. Then if that one is not opened, ALT C could open that window, all other windows could be ignored as inventory windows, since they are not primary keyed.
Make a hide button << for the est price bar, thx
. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
525
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 16:14:00 -
[346] - Quote
I am still trying to get used to the new way of doing things... anyway a few more suggestions from me:
- Show a volume bar (occupied / total) next to each hangar / container in the index. - Starbase structures in the index should show whether they are online or offline. Simply graying out the offline ones should be cool.
I can do most of my POS management work through the index now - it's still about twice slower than using the old system - but doable. But I still have to open the POS management screen to make sure I left all the reaction silos online. Adding an online / offline indicator to the megawindow would streamline the process a little.
[edit] The "Change Silo Type" option is missing from the right-click menu of silos in the index. |
Mariner6
EVE University Ivy League
65
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 16:19:00 -
[347] - Quote
I have a suggestion and hopefully I can articulate this and make sense.
I find that when I come into station with a cargo hold full of stuff and I want to drop/sort the items off in say my Ammo Station container and then my high slots container etc in my hanger I run into the following annoyance:
1) I drag the particular item from my cargo over to the appropriate container (which usually means some mouse scroll wheel work and then when I hover my pointer with the stuff I'm dragging over the desired container immediately the contents of that container show up. Well that's fine I suppose because now I drop the stuff in, but now I must scroll all the way back up to my ship's cargo hold because I can no longer see in it and I want to drag now something else into a different container. This leads to a lot of back and forth work and when there are lots of personal and corps containers this is really tedious.
2) Now I know I can shift click and make another window for my cargo hold. Got it. But it just seems like it would be easier that the contents of a container in the unified window wouldn't auto open until I click it. But I'm am sure there are other people out there who really like the functionality of the auto open on hover, so my recommendation would be in the unified inventory settings (is there one?) that you have a stadia button you could select to open containers on hover or on click.
Overall I'm starting to get used to it and don't think its too bad. Certainly not worth all the rage. +1 overall once the bugs get worked out. |
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
161
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 16:23:00 -
[348] - Quote
Sum Olgy wrote:Ok the new Inventory system is here to stay. We got that. So, moving on.... Speed is where it's at. It has to be at least as fast as the old system. Opening the Inventory and loading up *everything* in range* is just dog slow and a terrible way to do a data lookup. For instance, the only time I ever care what is in a POS gun is when I've just anchored it - i.e. did I put ammo in or not? I will never care or wonder again as to the contents of a POS gun!!!! Well, until I get sieged, but by then it's all too late. What I'd *like* is to have an overview type pre-filter system where I can click on an icon in the neocom that only opens say 'My Ships Cargo Hold' or the 'Top SMA in our POS'. 90% of the things I do with the inventory are only actually a very few operations. However, it seems to me that upon opening the Inventory you do a database fetch to get everything and only once this has completed do you get the option to filter the results. Why? If, like 99% of the time have no interest in POS guns why load them in the first place? Oh and the sorting/stacking function is awfully slow, so much to the point where the client lags horribly. I've learned not to stack while I'm salvaging and any team speak requests as to 'how many nano-ribbons have we got' will be regarded with scorn, disappointment and a fond reminiscence of the good old days.... *For a given value of *range* - I'm guessing this is anything on grid that I can interact with?
If we are going to be stuck with 'The Tree' why not add presets as we have with Overview? At the moment it seems that Inventory is the equivalent of an Overview preset with every possible option included by default. All of that information is not equally valuable in every circumstance, all the time. Agree?
The player-driven choice of Inventory locations excluded from a particular inventory preset might get me back to where I was before this system was introduced. If I must, I'll burn the time to set up inventory presets; won't be happy about it, but still better than what I get now. |
andyminer
Careb Air Cascade Associates
21
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 17:35:00 -
[349] - Quote
I have been reading the Forums and have posted twice before about how the player base hates the new Inventory system. Today we had CCP's reply, they are going to tweak the new UI over the next few weeks until we the player base are happy with it. Repeated calls for the new UI to be taken back to SISI and worked on there have been ignored. Hundreds of posts asking for the old UI or at least for us to be given an option to turn off the new system have also been ignored. I personally now feel that I can't play this game in a way that I have become used to over the last seven years that I have owned my accounts. I am not interested in how the game looks or wether the missiles look nice when you fire them, all I want to do it to be able to navigate around my inventory windows quickly and easily like I used to be able to do. So, until this update is removed or an option is given to turn it off, I feel that I don't want to play this game anymore and have just parked my six accounts. That means that you have lost over a thousand pounds a year income from me (if you include the GTC's I buy) and you will probably see more people doing this. Most of my corp mates are feeling the same way as me and these are players who have supported your game for years. I urge you to listen to your player base and scrap this awful update. |
Haifisch Zahne
HZ Corp
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 18:24:00 -
[350] - Quote
I have to recreate my original post as it was eaten when I posted it.
There is one example of a User Interface in Eve for one aspect of game-play that CCP got right: PI. Building planetary mining colonies, graphically, watching the effect of miner placement with dynamic graphs over time: Kudos.
Pop-up Boxes vs Windowed Trees is six or half a dozen. Neither here nor there.
One of the worst cases of a User Interface in Eve: the Overview. A table of names and numbers. Why not a jet fighter heads up display? I think this idea was mentioned at Fanfest as coming, Not Soon (TM).
At Fanfest, it was mentioned that POS would, Not Soon (TM), be revamped as a graphical representation of building systems from components, like Lego, routing information and supplies between them. Sounds excellent.
Take the fitting window, a pinwheel of pidgeon holes, where you drag items from containers (or from an unorganized mess in the Item Hangar). Does Pop-up Boxes or Windowed Trees make it any better?
The process of fitting should be one of graphically creating systems from components with dynamic real-time information shown. Perhaps, you create (using templates) "Role" Filters to use to choose modules. One might customize it for the kinds of modules one uses for that role, perhaps also using specific Containers in the Item Hangar. For example, a Sniper ship is probably going to use railguns or artillery and not going to use a statis web. Then, maybe, I just see the relevant items for a slot position laid out on the Fitting Hangar floor at the bottom of the screen, which one could scroll around using the mouse wheel or some such. Something, anything, relevant to a graphical Sci-Fi experience of fitting a ship.
And, fitting a ship could show a nice 3D piece of eye candy of the ship, with its turret/missile pintle-mounts, mid-slot sections and heavy duty low-slot bays. The YouTube video for Dust 514 of the Myrmidon tech specs might be a start. But, the process of fitting is the important point. Dragging and dropping from boxes or trees into pidgeon holes is not futuristic Sci-Fi stuff of the imagination.
While assembling the ship in the Fitting Hangar, I'd like to see a dynamic graphic representation of the offensive and defensive capabilities of the ship. Not as some concise table of numbers, but with user-selectable information to be represented with its values as "heat" on a polar grid. For example, one could choose to see possible damage inflicted at range on a small Grid with values represented from red to blue. Or, choose to see tracking, or whatever.
Then, saving and choosing a Fitting, I shouldn't have to go Fitting --> Browse, then navigate some poorly designed tree, as it is now. I would like to choose fittings for a ship right in the Ship Hangar. A drop-down menu would work, but what if I could choose Filters for the entire Ship Hangar to see only relevant Hard-Hitting Battleship fits-- thus excluding that Cargo Delivery Atron from facing World Collide.
I can imagine wonderful systems could be designed for Market Traders and Industry Supply Chain Logistics.
Give us more of these kinds of User Interfaces. Don't re-invent the wheel for some aspect of the game, which really doesn't make much important difference either way. Will you get it to work someday? Sure. Will you spend countless weeks that could have been used to create something really WOW? You bet. Will you have lost some percentage of users (again) with Unified Inventory? Yup. Would you have wow'ed the press and received praise on the forums for some incredible new Sci-Fi graphical representation of futuristic system building? You guessed it, yes.
(But, in the end, to fix Unified Inventory, give us a way, regardless of whether it requires us to hold down Shift-Alt-PrtScn-Home-PageDown while clicking both mouse buttons with both pinkies held up in the air, but when I do I get a window that is indistinguishable from the old windows pre-Unified Inventory. And, once I open these windows, they just behave like they did.)
CCP Optimal wrote:THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. We identified the inventory as being one of the biggest violator and that's why we went on this journey (not because we like to spend Sunday afternoons on the EVE forums, lovely as they are, mind you!). A lot of things have changed in the world of user interfaces during the last 10 years, and I think it's safe to say that a game shipping with the old EVE inventory system EVE today would receive mixed reviews.
The old system had been brewing out in the wild for 9 years, but the new one for less than a week, so obviously it has not received the same amount of updates and fixes. We are, and will be working hard to make sure that no matter your profession in EVE, you will have an equally or faster way of doing what you need to do. |
|
Khadann
First Legion
19
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 18:28:00 -
[351] - Quote
Poor soundwave, apologising every 2 lines and giving candies around : "please don't unsub, here is some patch coming"
Feels again like an hostage situation where ccp has no choice but to kneel :s
|
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
141
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 18:30:00 -
[352] - Quote
I need my right click on ship > open hangars and bays to be back, and for them to open in a new window that remembers itself... |
SoHo White
Etoilles Mortant Ltd. Solyaris Chtonium
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 18:30:00 -
[353] - Quote
andyminer wrote:I have been reading the Forums and have posted twice before about how the player base hates the new Inventory system. Today we had CCP's reply, they are going to tweak the new UI over the next few weeks until we the player base are happy with it. Repeated calls for the new UI to be taken back to SISI and worked on there have been ignored. Hundreds of posts asking for the old UI or at least for us to be given an option to turn off the new system have also been ignored. I personally now feel that I can't play this game in a way that I have become used to over the last seven years that I have owned my accounts. I am not interested in how the game looks or wether the missiles look nice when you fire them, all I want to do it to be able to navigate around my inventory windows quickly and easily like I used to be able to do. So, until this update is removed or an option is given to turn it off, I feel that I don't want to play this game anymore and have just parked my six accounts. That means that you have lost over a thousand pounds a year income from me (if you include the GTC's I buy) and you will probably see more people doing this. Most of my corp mates are feeling the same way as me and these are players who have supported your game for years. I urge you to listen to your player base and scrap this awful update.
I feel exactly the same way about this !
I can't see tweaks making that much of a difference to the overall effect.
I appreciate that times change and that the inventory system was probably due a refreshed UI, but the one you have given us although it has a few good ideas, doesn't work as efficiently or as easily as the old one. It's no good telling us that you will improve the performance and fix / tweak it here and there when fundamentally it isn't a good interface. |
Fraa Bjorn
Cell 317
45
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 18:39:00 -
[354] - Quote
Please roll back the inventory. All games have QQ, but only Eve has Q.Q |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
221
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 18:54:00 -
[355] - Quote
Why did you have to let things get this bad before acting (or even go live). Its disappointing really, you had so much feedback on the test server to this end, surely you must have seen the sh*t storm that was heading your way ? everybody else did and tried to tell you.
Tal
|
Nukleanis
Falcon Advanced Industries
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 19:00:00 -
[356] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why.
I have translated this, with added cake:
CCP: "I've just force-fed you a cake It was chocolate."
Player: "I don't like chocolate cake."
CCP: "Try it. You might like it."
Player: "You've just rammed a cake down my throat. I couldn't NOT try it. I still don't like chocolate cake and I like you even less for taking fistfuls of cake and hurling them down my throat."
CCP: "Well, it's the only thing you're getting, I'm afraid. Hubris. Lol."
Player: "Seeing as I'm effectively paying you to force cake on me, I could always just stop paying you to foist stuff I don't want on me and go elsewhere."
To contribute, however:
What don't I like about the new UI? Looting. I would keep the UI open while looting, but it is HUGE. Even if I remove the tree, opening a wreck just changes my cargo window into the wreck window. I could loot all, but what if I don't want some scrap metal? How am I supposed to see how much space is in my cargo hold while looking at a wreck and prioritise what I take from said wreck without extra clicks and use of the tree view?
Also, in my hangar I have 9 containers. I like containers because they open new windows, plus I'm higher brain function deficient and I like huge things to click on. With two windows open I can drag objects around and automatically stack objects. Now I have to drag an object to a tiny, wee entry on the tree, wait for it to swap the main window view and then continue moving the object. It takes twice as long to move things around.
If you want some really helpful advice, then add an option to double click something in the tree and have it open a new window that remembers the size and position. |
Tavis Guildstern
The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 19:00:00 -
[357] - Quote
Okay, a new inventorysystem,
After half an hour curesing, it has some good points.
Whit shift + click i can open it in a seperat window whitout tree. Why can't i open my cargo from the UI the icon beside the cap. whit shift + click in a sep. window ?
Why is there no open cargohold in the right click menu?
If i loot cans und pop them, why choose the inventory System a Random Corphanger, to display ? That is realy anyonig you looting cans whit a ship whit a corp hangar and the last can pops and the inventory let you look at your own Corphanger Cargohold or inside a POS of the POS-Moduls.
Whit a pretty please, shortcuts, and the abiltiy to store the window position, in my Hulk there is one place i need the cargobay and one place where i need my can window.
The tree view works great if you have to handel several cans.
|
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
142
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 19:30:00 -
[358] - Quote
Jed Clampett wrote:vanillacherry wrote:Can you make shift-clicking something open up in window that doesn't have the tree on it so I don't need to shift-click my cargo icon twice to just have my cargo open up where I want it and then close the main window? And how about using the pin mechanism or something to say "don't mess with this window -- no updating which container it points to" If pinned (or whatever) additional click on UI items should be forced to open a new window or find a UI window that is not pinned down.
No.... Any existing window, regardless of its pinned state, should never be hijacked for any reason. I only use pin to make things transparent, and I don't want to have my remembered windows tied to a visual feature that I don't use for most things! |
T's little helper
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 19:32:00 -
[359] - Quote
I know CCP want "constructive feedback" rather than thousands of players shouting "Restore the previous UI!!!" I know CCP want ideas how to improve the new UI instead. The problem is, that no matter how much you improve a rotten egg it's still rotten. You can salt and pepper it, you can decorate it, you can put it in a nice egg cup and call it a delicacy, but it's STILL a rotten egg, it's still a rotten UI.
The most constructive feedback i can provide is "Restore the previous UI" and then hope that CCP can take the next day off, go to the bar and get so drunk that they'll forget that this new unified garbage ever existed.
There wasn't anything wrong at all with the previous UI, it worked exactly the way it should. If you never saved a backup of that code, then restore it, recode it, make it as identical as possible to what it was. When you get to THAT point, you can start considering additional functionality to it on the test server and DO listen to the feedback this time! I did provide feedback from the singularity testing here, but for what use...
From the day the new UI went active, i've drastically reduced my time in eve, it's simply no fun to use the game anymore. I do log on, mainly to check on skill queues, idle a bit, maybe chat a few minutes and do some small stuff, the rest just isn't tempting to do anylonger.
|
Dawnmist
35
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 19:39:00 -
[360] - Quote
Captain Praxis wrote:CCP Optimal wrote: *Hubris*
I was pretty optimistic over the weekend after reading CCP Soundwave's posts as it seemed that CCP were going to be addressing my concerns and restoring the lost functionality. Now, after seeing CCP Optimal's post, I'm getting the feeling that CCP may not be as committed as I had thought to sorting out the issues. Can we get a concrete answer as to whether the following features are definitely going to be re-implemented?1) - Persistent multiple windows that remeber their size, position and function over session changes and log-outs/log-ins 2) - Separate Ship Hangar & Item Hangar buttons on the Neocom by default (or the ability to add them if they are not default), that open said hangars in separate windows (without a tree), at the same size/position as when they were last open 3) - Having wrecks and cans open in individual windows (without a tree), all at the same size/position as when they were last open 4) - Having the Open Cargohold button on the in-space HUD open the ship's cargo hold in a separate window (without a tree), at the same size/position as when it was last open 5) - Restoration of the missing right-click functions (e.g. Open Drone Bay, Open Fuel Bay, etc...) You may have noticed the subtle hints above that I hate using trees for navigation. I don't even use the tree in the Market window unless there's no other option to find what I'm looking for.
This exactly.
|
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MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
748
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 19:52:00 -
[361] - Quote
disasteur wrote:Logicycle wrote:CCP Optimal wrote:
I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible).
lies. its not an option because you dont want it to be an option? (my guess is that the code is to deep integraded in the entire system?) technically impossible? not true a complete roleback has done before (how many days that took for you to consider?) would be strange if in case of an emergency you couldnt restore it, but ok what ever you say is a roleback desireable? guess not cus then the other half will start to complain..... how about this, in station the new look and feel, with the suggested modifications, in space more like the old look and feel? yup just go up and red my post, it literally takes 3 changes to keep the new UI and the old. It's so easy I could code it. Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
Perramas
Pan Caldarian Ventures
464
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 19:52:00 -
[362] - Quote
Cut CCP some slack they are pros, remember they sold 52 monocles from the Nexon store the first day! CCP knows what they are doing you all just need to eat some rancid ram balls and drink lots of beer to see the vision CCP has for EVE. |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
130
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 19:52:00 -
[363] - Quote
T's little helper wrote:From the day the new UI went active, i've drastically reduced my time in eve, it's simply no fun to use the game anymore. I do log on, mainly to check on skill queues, idle a bit, maybe chat a few minutes and do some small stuff, the rest just isn't tempting to do anylonger.
Same here, I really cannot be arsed with this crap.
I am sooo glad that I did not take out the year-long subscription a few months back. Something told me that the new "We are listening to the players" CCP would fall flat on its face sooner or later.
3 days until 2 of my accounts expire, they will not be renewed.
2 weeks until the other 3 expire, the clock is ticking..... |
Par'Gellen
48
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 20:00:00 -
[364] - Quote
Here is another issue that needs to be resolved with the new inventory UI. Please see this screenshot for detailed explaination.
http://www.neoncranium.com/inventory2.jpg
Here is the link to the previous screenshot in case it was overlooked.
http://www.neoncranium.com/inventory.jpg
Devs, please consider these changes. I beg you. To err is human, but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Jandahl Callis
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 20:04:00 -
[365] - Quote
Some idle speculation to ponder while waiting for Tuesday's patch:
Hypothetically, suppose that the surveys referenced as the justification for changing the UI are from people who did not continue to play after the initial trial period, or let their subscriptions lapse after a month or two. In other words, lost new sources of revenue for CCP.
LetGÇÖs further suppose that the demographics of these lost revenue sources matches up pretty well with the potential new players of Dust 514 that are not already EVE subscribers. Do you think CCP is going to want to convert these people to EVE subscribers? Do you think that the potential Dust 514 sales will eclipse the current EVE subscriber base?
So, if the new Unified Inventory is easier for new players, or at least usable for someone that has no experience with the old Inventory system, and CCP believes the old inventory system was costing them new subscribers, here is an interesting question. Will the people who ragequit be offset by the increase in retained trials/new subscriptions, especially in light of the expected influx of people newly exposed to EVE from Dust 514?
I donGÇÖt think that this, by itself, would be business justification for CCPGÇÖs behavior. If you add in an old code base, some dev arrogance, and stir in some data from the Incarna fiasco letting CCP know how many of that ragequit armada eventually came back, the result might not be too bitter to swallow.
Yes, I know many people who are leaving have multiple accounts. CCP know that, too. If they have confidence in their assumptions, and the numbers work, itGÇÖs actually a straightforward business decision. Cold. Hard. Business.
tl:dr - You, my very vocal Capsuleers (and ex Capsuleers), may be acceptable casualties. Hypothetically.
I am a causal player, with no POS and Corp hangers to worry about. IGÇÖm also in the middle of a three month renewal, so IGÇÖm queuing up a level V skill, keeping an eye on the oh-so-entertaining forums, and logging in after a couple of the promised weekly patches are released to see if things are any better.
What I will be looking for: looting to be fixed, intelligently persistent windows, no lag, and NO need to use a key combination with my mouse to get basic things done. +1 to all of the posts that have covered these things. Hopefully CCP will exceed my simple needs.
|
SillyWaif
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 20:08:00 -
[366] - Quote
T's little helper wrote: ...
From the day the new UI went active, I've drastically reduced my time in eve, it's simply no fun to use the game anymore. I do log on, mainly to check on skill queues, idle a bit, maybe chat a few minutes and do some small stuff, the rest just isn't tempting to do any longer.
^^ this.
Captain Praxis wrote: 1) - Persistent multiple windows that remember their size, position and function over session changes and log-outs/log-ins
2) - Separate Ship Hangar & Item Hangar buttons on the Neocom by default (or the ability to add them if they are not default), that open said hangars in separate windows (without a tree), at the same size/position as when they were last open
3) - Having wrecks and cans open in individual windows (without a tree), all at the same size/position as when they were last open
4) - Having the Open Cargohold button on the in-space HUD open the ship's cargo hold in a separate window (without a tree), at the same size/position as when it was last open
5) - Restoration of the missing right-click functions (e.g. Open Drone Bay, Open Fuel Bay, etc...)
You may have noticed the subtle hints above that I hate using trees for navigation. I don't even use the tree in the Market window unless there's no other option to find what I'm looking for.
This would help ^^^
I don't mind new stuff but the Unified Inventory is truly a game-play-stopper :( |
N3LLY
MUNKI.MINERS.INC
51
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 20:15:00 -
[367] - Quote
Account Expires02 June 2012 - 2:29 pm (in 4 days)
thing better get better times running out 1 account out of time this ones almost gone aswell
missioning & looting is a nightmare
all i want is my multiple windows for looting/salvaging back hangers in station to return the two main buttons to return to my 2 windows
opening any container opens a new window
IF YOU CAN DO THIS FOR THE PATCH I CAN STOP RANTING PLEASE LISTEN UI IS CRAP GET RID AS SOON AS POSSIBLE P.S. CAN I GET A REFUND FOR LOST GAME TIME ?
|
Par'Gellen
50
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 20:45:00 -
[368] - Quote
Captain Praxis wrote: 1) - Persistent multiple windows that remember their size, position and function over session changes and log-outs/log-ins
2) - Separate Ship Hangar & Item Hangar buttons on the Neocom by default (or the ability to add them if they are not default), that open said hangars in separate windows (without a tree), at the same size/position as when they were last open
3) - Having wrecks and cans open in individual windows (without a tree), all at the same size/position as when they were last open
4) - Having the Open Cargohold button on the in-space HUD open the ship's cargo hold in a separate window (without a tree), at the same size/position as when it was last open
5) - Restoration of the missing right-click functions (e.g. Open Drone Bay, Open Fuel Bay, etc...)
You may have noticed the subtle hints above that I hate using trees for navigation. I don't even use the tree in the Market window unless there's no other option to find what I'm looking for.
This please 100000% yes! To err is human, but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Mei ra'Zhault
Kimotoro Trading Company
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 20:54:00 -
[369] - Quote
Cuchulin wrote:- double click on a non active ship in my hangar should open the cargohold of said ship (in a new separate window) and not make said ship active as this is highly counterintuitive from usual windows behavior where double click opens folder
+1, this new behaviour is extremely impractical |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
148
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 20:55:00 -
[370] - Quote
And when will this whole Shift+click nonsense just be done away with? Please use conventional methods like double click. I get my work area setup, but I have to walk on egg-shells around it constantly... mindful that if I don't hold down shift, I will loose a good chunk of what I was doing.
Just give me a way to get through eve without ever touching or seeing that tree. Please. Give me back my interaction and management options on the items themselves. I want to touch my arrays and bays, and hangars, and open right from that into a new window, that remembers itself... not go hunting in another window for it... |
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Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
121
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 21:01:00 -
[371] - Quote
The Unified Inventory has enormous potential, but definitely needs more work. As always, thanks for listening and responding.
Apologies if some of these have already been suggested.
(1) When opening a container in space, the inventory should open to that container, not to the active ship's cargohold. I think this will be fixed in the 29 May patch.
(2) The "Loot All" button should be made bigger, or at least more noticeable. Maybe move it to the top of the window, or otherwise make it stand out somehow.
(3) Legacy shortcuts such as ALT+C should open the appropriate inventory spaces, not just the unified inventory window.
(4) The game should remember inventory window positioning. For example, if I open the ship's cargohold in a new window and then close it, the cargohold should open in a new window the next time I access it. Similarly, if I open a jetcan in a new window, and change its default position, that should be where all future jetcans are opened.
(5) Re-introduce tabs. If I drag-drop one inventory window onto another, the dragged window should become a tab. That will give players an additional axis along which to organize inventory and other containers.
(6) Give us the option of searching all containers and hangars in a station or on a grid using the inventory search, not just the active container. Maybe a checkbox for "Search All Station/Nearby Containers" or something. I keep trying to search for items while still in the ship hangar.
(7) The inventory lags something awful when moving a lot of items from one storage space to another, such as from the ship cargohold to the station item hangar. I think this is due to the new item value calculator.
(8) If a player cannot access a container, that container should not show up in the inventory. For example, if I do not have the right to access a POS's fuel bay or an SMA, I should not see either of those in the inventory.
On a related note, when you re-do the Assets window, please consider giving us options to sort by number of jumps/items/whatever in each station.
|
Nova York
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 21:09:00 -
[372] - Quote
What I can not understand is the persistence that CCP has in pushing the new UI. As long as a lot of their customer base is unhappy with the new UI and when even CCP admitted that the new UI is broken why all the pushing forward with the new UI? Why not take your new UI test it, make it free of bugs, ask and listen to the player opinion on Sisi, implement the changes, and then, come with it live. And in the mean time please, let us play. |
Mei ra'Zhault
Kimotoro Trading Company
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 21:19:00 -
[373] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:And when will this whole Shift+click nonsense just be done away with? Please use conventional methods like double click. I get my work area setup, but I have to walk on egg-shells around it constantly... mindful that if I don't hold down shift, I will loose a good chunk of what I was doing.
I intend to continue quoting these posts until it is no longer necessary |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
148
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 21:53:00 -
[374] - Quote
Captain Praxis wrote:Yonis Kador wrote: ... Even though we know our hangars are folders on some operating system somewhere in Europe, we suspend our disbelief in-game. When I had a station hangar icon at the bottom of the neocom, for me, it was part of the station. Oooh...the corp hangar icon is over on the other side with the office listings. That was a separate part of the station. Now its all just files in a tree. ...
Yup, I totally agree with you on this point, and it's one that nobody else has mentioned. By the same in-galaxy rationale, wrecks cans, etc. should all be separate windows too, since they're separate objects in space, and not a part of our ship or station. The old UI definitely made more sense in the context of the separate entities (hangars, ships, things in space) that we interact with, and reinforced the believability/suspension of disbelief much more than the current UI. It would make a lot more sense for the new UI to replace the Asset finder than the "Inventory" (which, as has been pointed out, doesn't really exist per se in-galaxy).
This... There was an immersion aspect to the old UI. Things feel less real in a file system style User Interface. This project should have had an elite team of your top guys on it. No offense to optimal and arrow, but you guys really where put in way over your heads in being asked to revamp something so fundamental... |
Cloned S0ul
Blood Fanatics
65
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 22:11:00 -
[375] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:And when will this whole Shift+click nonsense just be done away with? Please use conventional methods like double click. .
This
|
Spanking Monkeys
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
93
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 22:11:00 -
[376] - Quote
Nova York wrote:What I can not understand is the persistence that CCP has in pushing the new UI. As long as a lot of their customer base is unhappy with the new UI and when even CCP admitted that the new UI is broken why all the pushing forward with the new UI? Why not take your new UI test it, make it free of bugs, ask and listen to the player opinion on Sisi, implement the changes, and then, come with it live. And in the mean time please, let us play.
the inventory is a clicky nightmare.
ive stated many times and been banned on one toon. i have 9 biting the dust in a week anyhow as i just cant face this bull, so no loss.
you ingored feed back on sisi, you ignored teh feedback in the test server forum. you even stated you didnt care what we said, and just what we did.
corp hangers at a pos. i need to access 4, all 7 hangers at once. before click on each and open in 1 window, all 4 stacked. with a few clciks i can navgate all of the hangers.
now its 28 shift clciks a screen full off windows and a bloody nightmare, with everything taking much longer.
ffs give me back my corp hangers back how they were, right click open, 7 tabs all hangers 1 window. 4 stacked windows 28 hangers.
did a mass carrier jump, 140 carreirs, we do this every few weeks. why the hell did you take my static windows away. 1 corp hanger, 1 fuel bay. i need to know there is enough fuel to jjump, with out shift clicking the hell out of everything. also why teh hell does the inventory refresh every sec when your in a ball of carriers, wtf is up with that.
you ccp optimal dont play eve, thats clear. but for those of us that do., GIVE US BACK ALL OF THE FUNCTIONALITY YOU HAVE REMOVED.
|
Pat0chan
Fake World
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 22:25:00 -
[377] - Quote
Spanking Monkeys wrote:Nova York wrote:What I can not understand is the persistence that CCP has in pushing the new UI. As long as a lot of their customer base is unhappy with the new UI and when even CCP admitted that the new UI is broken why all the pushing forward with the new UI? Why not take your new UI test it, make it free of bugs, ask and listen to the player opinion on Sisi, implement the changes, and then, come with it live. And in the mean time please, let us play. the inventory is a clicky nightmare. ive stated many times and been banned on one toon. i have 9 biting the dust in a week anyhow as i just cant face this bull, so no loss. you ingored feed back on sisi, you ignored teh feedback in the test server forum. you even stated you didnt care what we said, and just what we did. corp hangers at a pos. i need to access 4, all 7 hangers at once. before click on each and open in 1 window, all 4 stacked. with a few clciks i can navgate all of the hangers. now its 28 shift clciks a screen full off windows and a bloody nightmare, with everything taking much longer. ffs give me back my corp hangers back how they were, right click open, 7 tabs all hangers 1 window. 4 stacked windows 28 hangers. did a mass carrier jump, 140 carreirs, we do this every few weeks. why the hell did you take my static windows away. 1 corp hanger, 1 fuel bay. i need to know there is enough fuel to jjump, with out shift clicking the hell out of everything. also why teh hell does the inventory refresh every sec when your in a ball of carriers, wtf is up with that. you ccp optimal dont play eve, thats clear. but for those of us that do., GIVE US BACK ALL OF THE FUNCTIONALITY YOU HAVE REMOVED. +1
If you guys insist on "improving" UI, can you please at least give us the option of choosing what suits us the best, Thanks |
Mullethead
League of Gentlemen Ethereal Dawn
42
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 22:43:00 -
[378] - Quote
Dear CCP
We appreciate that you want to make this new inventory clicky clicky work and for persistence you all get top marks...well done (golf claps).
What many/alot/tons of us REALLY want is a way to revert to the old style of inventory. Heaps of us have been asking for a button to tick to do this for a week now.
Granted this new inventory has some nice features but (its a big but) lets not turn Eve into "File Tree Online"!
It takes a lot longer to do just about anything with this inventory.
Please for the love of all thing Amarrian give us a way to disable the damn thing and revert to the old inventory sytle and system!
If you can do it for ship spinning/CQ you can do it for this.
Its only a little check box. |
Ketov Aktar
Grey Wolff
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 22:52:00 -
[379] - Quote
Also CCP - keep iterating, add explanations, features, back/forward buttons and some other bells and whistles, and in the end every QQing hater in this thread will just have to DEAL WITH IT. [/quote]
What about adding a "Send To" or "Move To" option for moving things from one container to another in station? |
Makaganti
University of Caille Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 22:53:00 -
[380] - Quote
Good People of eve ccp need to be punished ccp need to know this is our game we pay an therefore we own eve
Please people of eve boycott eve for 23hrs show ccp they can't ignore us, help to train ccp how to listen
I'm proposing 1st June eve time turn off eve go spend quality time with your wife/husband, your girlfriend/boyfriend family friends if you have none of this then go out side or watch tv do anything or rob the local 7/11
Its time for action ladies and gentlemen
With unity there is power |
|
Par'Gellen
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 23:13:00 -
[381] - Quote
Here is another Inventory UI issue that needs to be addressed. Please see this screenshot for detailed explaination.
http://www.neoncranium.com/inventory3.jpg
Here is the link to the previous screenshots in case they were overlooked.
http://www.neoncranium.com/inventory.jpg http://www.neoncranium.com/inventory2.jpg
Devs, please consider these changes. I beg you. To err is human, but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Makaganti
University of Caille Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 23:20:00 -
[382] - Quote
If we have to have this crap - your active ship needs to say - clown car (active ship) Iteron VI)CARGO HOLD other wise "what the" where is my cargo hold With Unity there is Power |
Mei ra'Zhault
Kimotoro Trading Company
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 23:25:00 -
[383] - Quote
I am intrigued by the idea of a single, stand-alone tree view. |
Par'Gellen
53
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 23:41:00 -
[384] - Quote
Mei ra'Zhault wrote:I am intrigued by the idea of a single, stand-alone tree view. Honestly when I read the blog a week or so ago that is what I assumed they meant. I had no idea it meant I had to have a non-closable inventory window that is always in the way. To err is human, but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
108
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 23:56:00 -
[385] - Quote
Same ****, different expansion - unwanted feature, CCP refusing to back down an inch.
FFS, add the option to disable the damn estimated prices, which is useless and laggs out the inventory when there are hundreds of items in the hanger, I really enjoy watching that little white wheel thing zip around, was that the new feature?
Still dont want it, dont like it, not as good as what we had. Take it of TQ, fix it , roll it back out with an optionality added to the feature and you would get a round of applause. But no, you ignored the sisi feedback thread and forced this half baked dysfunctional laggy **** on us. And then look all surprised that there is rage.
INCARNA 2.0
All expansions beginning with the letter I are rubbish Incursion, Incarna, Inferno ****** shitty stuff..
|
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
7441
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 00:00:00 -
[386] - Quote
Why can't you allow flexibility in the system? Such as being able to peel away certain windows, from the main one? The above jpg is a great illustration of this. I personally want separate windows for certain things.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope Gallente Federation
160
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 00:10:00 -
[387] - Quote
Mar Drakar wrote:
And yo uassume that they are using proper MVC for what particular reason? afaik client is a mashup of C, python and god knows what else, and executions etc are spread all over the place (server and client)... I just don't see any reason t oassume that inventor "module" is pluggable piece of eve, especially since it was used and abused since the inception of even...
In ideal world - yeah all software should be decoupled as hell, and everything should be covered by tests and change'able/pluggable, but from my 7 analysts years - this is almost never the case.
So because it's probably coupled together, it's impossible to fix?
I'm sorry, but I've worked with apps that sent packets directly from the UI, and I still know that CCP is full of **** when they say it's impossible to do something.
- They still have the code for it in SVN/GIT/CVS somewhere back in the revision history. Therefore, yes, revert is always an option as long as someone has the balls to do it.
- They can still wrap the different UI event handlers/renderers/etc with if statements, ESPECIALLY if it's in python.
- If it's NOT in an MVC layout, then they have bigger problems to worry about than there being multiple windows.
How to Improve Quality Assurance at CCP
Professional Programmer, DBA, Game Developer and Systems Analyst |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
749
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 00:15:00 -
[388] - Quote
Mullethead wrote:Dear CCP
We appreciate that you want to make this new inventory clicky clicky work and for persistence you all get top marks...well done (golf claps).
What many/alot/tons of us REALLY want is a way to revert to the old style of inventory. Heaps of us have been asking for a button to tick to do this for a week now.
Granted this new inventory has some nice features but (its a big but) lets not turn Eve into "File Tree Online"!
It takes a lot longer to do just about anything with this inventory.
Please for the love of all thing Amarrian give us a way to disable the damn thing and revert to the old inventory sytle and system!
If you can do it for ship spinning/CQ you can do it for this.
Its only a little check box. The check box is allready there. It closes the tree. It's in the items window itself Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
109
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 00:16:00 -
[389] - Quote
Unwanted, disliked, laggy, unresposnsive, buggy, slower than what we had and just plain stupid given the mountains of feedback prior to launch.
It's INCARNA 2.0
Step up and roll it back or make it optional - prove that you have learn't from the past and adapted and evolved from your Incarna moment. Dont roll this in to another 5k subsription loss moment of madness, get it back to Sisi, get it fixed then deploy it.
|
Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
109
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 00:17:00 -
[390] - Quote
Unwanted, disliked, laggy, unresposnsive, buggy, slower than what we had and just plain stupid given the mountains of feedback prior to launch.
It's INCARNA 2.0
Step up and roll it back or make it optional - prove that you have learn't from the past and adapted and evolved from your Incarna moment. Dont roll this in to another 5k subsription loss moment of madness, get it back to Sisi, get it fixed then deploy it.
|
|
Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club
309
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 00:21:00 -
[391] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Off topic and non-constructive posts removed.
Please remember that this thread is to discuss the devblog in a constructive way. We know how much unhappiness and dissatisfaction was created, but to resolve this situation as fast as possible, it is necessary to have your posts right on the topic while being constructive. This way our developers can read in an efficiently way your feedback and do not need to spend unnecessary time filtering out off topic posts.
Thank you for your help!
If you could make a dev-blog about how you're going to collect (and react to) more feedback on massive changes before releasing them to TQ, I bet you'll get a higher percentage of constructive responses, and it would probably ease the frustration you're feeling about the window.
The Window isn't really the problem, it's the symptom...
... |
Imuran
Zentor Industries
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 00:33:00 -
[392] - Quote
Good change that - could possibly do something similar on the top of the window as well
|
ORJI
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 00:52:00 -
[393] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:
Removing of Commonly Used 'old' Shortcuts
You castrated people who do a lot of logistics. The ability to dock, right click my ship, open the fuel bay...
wait...
no...
I can no longer right click and open my fuel bay or corporate hangar!?
/sigh...
I don't want to be repetitive of what was already said... hopefully, you guys are on it.... but This^^
On another note.... I think the passion you see is because people are asked to go on SiSi and provide feedback... but when you receive A LOT of consistent feedback on a particular concept then proceed to ignore it, players that spent hours testing feel a complete and utter waste of their time.... If you just put out what you wanted and called it a day, that's one thing.... but if you have us involved with testing then ignore critical feedback, people will become cynical. No one likes their time wasted. That said, EvE Online is an amazing game, has set such a high bar in technology, graphics, etc. and I personally love it.... You guys have a product that is really good and we (as players) are also passionate about keeping that bar on par. :)
|
Par'Gellen
58
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 01:26:00 -
[394] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:In some cases we felt that players weren't even giving the new proposed way of doing things a chance and that it might just be a matter of getting used to. Fair enough. I've seriously given this new inventory thing an honest try. I really have. It's been several days now and I can tell you that this is no longer a matter of "getting used to". This new system is actually much worse than the old system.
I've tried to consolidate my thoughts from my several other posts into one concise feedback. Here is what I came up with.
There are design flaws:
- It takes up much more screen real estate than the old system. This is a very big deal. Huge.
- It is harder to do things that were simple before, like having to open station/corp/ship hangars every time you dock just to drag and drop some loot.
- The main inventory window cannot be closed. The treeview is nice but the static inventory window attached to it is not. I need that space.
There are functionallity flaws:
- Shift clicking on containers to open them in their own windows works but those windows do not remember to open the next time you dock/jump/log on. This is a big deal. Huge.
- There is significant lag now while looting several wrecks/cans as well as when moving even small amounts of stuff around.
There are intuition flaws:
- Humans are primarily visual creatures. With the old system I could dock and tell what I had in the station at a glance. With the new system (even now after days of using it) I still have trouble figuring out what I have in a station without clicking all over the place. I hate that. Alot.
- When looting multiple wrecks/cans the inventory window remains open after all of them have been looted which often confuses me into trying to select all on my own cargo and drag it to itself. If using the Loot All button I'm usually confused momentarily into thinking i'm looking at an open can with no button when in fact it's my own cargo.
- I have lost count of the number of times I've docked and tried to drag my ship's cargo into itself because the main inventory window opens my ship's cargo by default.
These are the large annoying issues that I have run into. There are many other smaller ones that I'm sure I'll get over but the ones listed above are driving me mad and I can assure you no amount of "getting used to" is going to make me feel differently. In fact the more I encounter the issues listed above the more my hate for them grows like a boil on satan's arse.
Thank you for listening to my feedback. -Par To err is human, but it shouldn't be the company motto... |
Citrute
Quiet.Storm F0RCEFUL ENTRY
60
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 01:35:00 -
[395] - Quote
CCP - It's okay to admit you made a mistake and roll back changes to the old inventory. Maybe we could try this new inventory on your next expansion instead? (after you actually listen to the feedback on sisi instead of assuming we're wrong)
I apologies if you have delusions of grandeur, however, to your player base, Its painfully obvious this change was not an improvement. |
Solaris Ecladia
Valeth Imperial Command Hades.
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 01:36:00 -
[396] - Quote
I see a very bad trend with the way things are going. Its probably been said before but Why have a test server anymore if you dont listen to people on it? Yea that adaptive armor thing was a cool idea. We told you "Hey man, it doesnt work the way it should. you should look at it". Nah, toss that ***** in game. "Hey CCP, that new inventory; yea so people will react badly to that. It has horrid POS management ability, its laggy, Makes life a little hard. It was a nice idea but probably needs alot of work.". Nope, lets put that in too. "Hey, you know these drone amps? The CPU seems intensive for ships that would actually use them and the bonus is a little low. Also it just seems silly as a low slot when other drone mods are high.". Turns out, 30 cpu wasnt enough, so they put 32 on there and put it in game. Hooray! Now yea, I know you have your deadlines but we told you this for a long time, It didnt mean you had to push them all in game. Expecially the unfinished parts. I surely hope you dont ever take the route of not listening to your players. |
Canis Minoris
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 03:22:00 -
[397] - Quote
What I would like to know is, will you make the current UI system as functional as the old one? Or are we eventually going to end up with something that, even after 10 minutes of setup and customisation from a fresh installation, will still require more user input and/or time than the old system?
Okay so CCP, you have made it clear that it is "technically impossible" to rollback to the old system. Fine, but nothing is stopping you from recreating the old system pound-for-pound upon the new code and giving players a choice between both systems.
If you have a set of IRREVERSIBLE changes/revamps that the majority of your test base on SiSi do not agree with, then don't release it on TQ until the majority of dislikers becomes the minority. CCP gambled on this one thinking all the mass criticism on SiSi would just be a minority on TQ.
Also, CCP, at what point do you look at a constructive feedback post from the test server regarding the UI changes and then dismiss it as "This player isn't giving the new system a chance..." If it requires more user input just to do the same thing on the old system then it is not a change for the best. |
Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
90
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 03:45:00 -
[398] - Quote
I can appreciate the fact that eve's UI can be overwhelming and the desire to simplify it can be extremely attractive. especially when it is considered to be one of the larger hurdles when it comes to new player retention.
With that being said i am unsure where the current philosophy on UI design is coming from lately . It is a trend that is evident in smart phones, tablets, applications and even new operating systems. All in a effort to simply the end user experience .
Apparently this simplification is coming at the cost of advanced user utility , and the same ideology is seen with eve's new interface. The initial experience with the new UI is pleasant on the face and it is relatively intuitive. As long as you do not need more advanced functionality, the interface could be considered an alternative (one might argue it is better but im not going to be that forgiving) .
With that being said i feel that this new interface design can be a huge opportunity to give eve players a more powerful user interface . You have a lot of great feed back here in the two dev blogs regarding this . All that is needed now is to abandon what ever design philosophy that lead to the new ui, take up the mantra of the power user and implement all the right click functionality, multiple windows, and great player feedback no matter how perverse it is to the underlying philosophy that created the new UI.
Maybe even look up from that spread sheet that told you, players were put off by the old inventory system. Start building some test, player experiences in game. Then try to accomplish tasks that have been demonstrated for you in these blogs. Focus on making those tasks easier and also provide some intelligence to the code that will aid the player in management of complex task .
I know this may sound scary but also allow for the player to customize how the ui works for them cause not all players require certain features, but those who do usually use it as a daily staple of how they play the game.
Focus on nailing the advanced user experience. Because all those new players, you hope to retain will become advanced users in the future. If the functionality is there playing eve will be the deep and involving experience that created your core player base to begin with.
|
Aaronix
Dred's Mission Runners
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 04:10:00 -
[399] - Quote
I couldn't help but notice that the Corporate hanger permissions issue is not really acknowledged on any of the dev posts and is blatantly absent from the list for Tuesdays update post by CCP Soundwave.
Just to reiterate this is the problem
All except directors and the CEO of a corp get "You have been denied access for the following reason: You require take access to open the container requested" and the joy of having to log out and back in again to get access to anything in any hanger.
Maybe i am missing the point of a corp hanger, but i always figured it was to have a controlled way to share items with corp members. Right now it is useless
Look forward to seeing a dev take notice of this issue and comment on it. Preferably in a patch notice. |
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
127
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 05:32:00 -
[400] - Quote
I was (again) playing around on SiSi - just a little: - the active ship is now nicely highlighted in the ships pane - good job. - the performance issues seem to have improved, however, to really test it, I need to try and transfer about 10Km3 of assorted mission loot. Today on TQ doing that transfer ( trade between players) literally took 15 mins to trade, and another 15 mins to populate the items pane. The SiSi rules indicate that we are not supposed to do "mass" things, so I avoided pushing the envelope. We'll see in the A.M. anyway. - the main inventory winow is still really large and inrterferes with monitoring the screen. Try doing POCO ops in lo sec with a big fat inventory window up plus the CO pane which can't be shrunk down - a recipe to become a wreck and podded. - I think window attribute handling (remembering size, location, etc) seems to be better, but I did not test this extensively. - I did not have time to test other quirky stuff, like failure to drag and drop properly into jet cans without having to drop into the space between the icons. - As a design complaint (not necessarily a functional issue) - I simply don't like the pricing the info at all when it seems to be on every window at all times and automatically upon hovering. It's stupid. And it takes up more screen space, even if on a single line like the guys who posted the jpg depicted. Can you make an on/off switch for that feature? Please? Pretty please? It is useful on market day (which was today for me - my weekly trip to Jita). It is an annoyance the rest of the time.
If a DEV could clarify whether or not transferring 10Km3 loot constitutes "overloading the server", I'd appreciate it. I'd like to test stuff out using the exact tasks and prodedures I do on TQ.
I'll post more as I play around on TQ in the A.M. It's way late, so I'm not going to proof read .... |
|
disasteur
Tellcomtec Incorporated. Preatoriani
119
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 05:41:00 -
[401] - Quote
Ris Dnalor wrote:CCP Phantom wrote:Off topic and non-constructive posts removed.
Please remember that this thread is to discuss the devblog in a constructive way. We know how much unhappiness and dissatisfaction was created, but to resolve this situation as fast as possible, it is necessary to have your posts right on the topic while being constructive. This way our developers can read in an efficiently way your feedback and do not need to spend unnecessary time filtering out off topic posts.
Thank you for your help! If you could make a dev-blog about how you're going to collect (and react to) more feedback on massive changes before releasing them to TQ, I bet you'll get a higher percentage of constructive responses, and it would probably ease the frustration you're feeling about the window. The Window isn't really the problem, it's the symptom...
@ CCP, dont you think its time you respond to all the info and suggestions given to you? i have seen nummerous great idea's on the issue but still you fail to give some feedback yourself, most of the anger here is based on the fact you left us hanging here thinking we do matter, and we clearly do not!
@ CSM, with a few acceptions you really suck, you have been choosen by the players, to speak for the players, dont you think its time to speak out? or was it to be elected just 1 big ego trip? |
Ashina Sito
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 05:59:00 -
[402] - Quote
Put to dark of text in the Inventory on the list as well. Not sure why the inventory text would be darker then the rest of the UI. |
Daeva Teresa
Viziam Amarr Empire
78
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 05:59:00 -
[403] - Quote
The aproximate cost of assets (not sure how to name this function) is not updating in some cases. For example if you are minning (lol), you need to click the window to update.
I would really apreciate better layout of the features, that takes up less space (was sugested before). Maybe even collapsing of the estimated cost and number of items.
Also change colapsing of the tree, so that window with items will not enlage to take up the tree's space, and add option to colapse the items window, soo that only the tree is visible.
I will try to do some photoshoping later to ilustrate some ideas of better layout. CCP really please dont use Upgraded, Limited, Experimental-áand Prototype in item names. It sounds like the item is actually worse than basic meta 1 item. Use Calibrated, Enhanced, Optimized and Upgraded. Its really easy to understand that the item is better than meta 1 and its also in alphabetic order. |
Dennie Fleetfoot
EVE University Ivy League
173
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 06:29:00 -
[404] - Quote
I've not been logging on much since Inferno launched because of mess. The games is now unplayable on either my missioning, industrial AND my exploration alts so it's just checking skill queues till CCP pull their finger out.
Mind you the weather has been glorious in the UK so between that and Dust at night over the weekend it's not been much of a loss.
At least I'm not getting stressed using the new version of windows 3.1 that CCP seem to think is groundbreaking. Hopefully today's patch, for the patch, for the patch might sort some of it out. |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
136
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 06:55:00 -
[405] - Quote
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:I've not been logging on much since Inferno launched because of mess. The games is now unplayable on either my missioning, industrial AND my exploration alts so it's just checking skill queues till CCP pull their finger out.
Mind you the weather has been glorious in the UK so between that and Dust at night over the weekend it's not been much of a loss.
At least I'm not getting stressed using the new version of windows 3.1 that CCP seem to think is groundbreaking. Hopefully today's patch, for the patch, for the patch might sort some of it out.
Don't hold your breath |
WolfSchwarzMond
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
30
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 07:13:00 -
[406] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote: I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, l.
Ok I've tried and tried to figure out a way to use this thing as well as the old one...It cannot be done. Here is why.
Opening multiple cans/wrecks lags the entire game. For mission looting this makes the game almost unplayable. For Jetcan Miners like me it causes us to lose cycles which is lost isk. The loading time on the windows is just unacceptable. 0.5-2mins to load your own hold if your're in a POS. 3mins to load a Ship Maintence array. Opening all the holds on a Rorqual or an Orca now takes twice as many clicks as it did and you have to play with the little tree. Opening Corp hangers where you can read them requires a window that is so very large, you can't really do anything else. Opening Corp hanger with Security Roles and a Large Corp will almost if not totally crash Eve. The little graph that indicates cargo hold seems to generate lag. The new window header and footer makes the amount of room to see Items even smaller then the old way did making you blow the window up bigger resulting in less room to work mutiple windows. This is a major issue when working a Rorqual/Orca It does not remember window locations/size when you dock/undock If you misclick and don't press shift you have to start all over. Try picking No Back Button. The Filters tree? menu? won't stay down. When you remove Items from your cargo hold into the Item hanger using only 1 window, it auto sorts them forcing you to search for the new items. Think of having to haul in some mods for a new ship fitting, Before you could justdrop them in the Item hanger get in new ship fit the mods cause they were at the bottom of the items. Now drop them in, get in new ship and SEARCH for mods they're not at the bottom like they were they're sorted in with everything else..... The search function on the new UI RESETS every time you change Hangers/hold this makes locating a specific item a pain. Moving large amounts of items generates Lag or results in some Items not being moved. It is now stupidly easy to drop something in the wrong location.....forcing you to go look for it. Previously if you had Tab 2 in your Orca Corp hanger opened and then opened POS Corp Hanger or SAA Tab 2 would open by default. Now it just opens the 1st tab. The loot all button does NOT stack ore in the holds nor does it give you the option to take just as much ore as will fit in your hold it's all or nothing. EVERYTHING to do with dealing with items now takes LONGER and is harder to do. This system IMHO is a step BACKWARD in that it is not simple to operate. You are forcing us for some reason I cannot fathom to use a system that is inherently more difficult to operate then the old one. This is not a "get used to it issue" This system is not as intelligent as the old one.
A great number of your CUSTOMERS, are upset about your product. You need to be willing to accept that while someone thought this was the way to go, your CUSTOMERS, the people you work for, the people who PAY you for your product DO NOT LIKE IT. Do us all a favor. Admit the mistake and correct it
This
CCP Optimal wrote: and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Is IMHO the wrong thing to say. Most people will read it as "this is what you will now use. Get used to it." Also CCP made it, CCP can UNMAKE IT so it is not technically impossible. Saying that is lying to your customers. It may be difficult and you don't want to do it, that doesn't mean you cannot do it.
I'll leave you with this Quote "The greatest lesson for me is the realization that EVE belongs to you, and we at CCP are just the hosts of your experience." -Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson, CEO You are failing as hosts at this time.
|
Peter Tjordenskiold
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 07:17:00 -
[407] - Quote
WolfSchwarzMond wrote:[quote=CCP Optimal] I'll leave you with this Quote "The greatest lesson for me is the realization that EVE belongs to you, and we at CCP are just the hosts of your experience." -Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson, CEO
/this |
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 07:26:00 -
[408] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Mullethead wrote:Dear CCP
We appreciate that you want to make this new inventory clicky clicky work and for persistence you all get top marks...well done (golf claps).
What many/alot/tons of us REALLY want is a way to revert to the old style of inventory. Heaps of us have been asking for a button to tick to do this for a week now.
Granted this new inventory has some nice features but (its a big but) lets not turn Eve into "File Tree Online"!
It takes a lot longer to do just about anything with this inventory.
Please for the love of all thing Amarrian give us a way to disable the damn thing and revert to the old inventory sytle and system!
If you can do it for ship spinning/CQ you can do it for this.
Its only a little check box. The check box is allready there. It closes the tree. It's in the items window itself
And i have button for hide you posts. :P This inventory tree is crap. We want separated windows. We dont want to see pos modules in our cargo.We dont want push shift+mouse buttons thousand times ,over and over because bad developed UI. We want chop this trees. |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
751
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 08:26:00 -
[409] - Quote
Maraner wrote:Unwanted, disliked, laggy, unresposnsive, buggy, slower than what we had and just plain stupid given the mountains of feedback prior to launch.
It's INCARNA 2.0
Step up and roll it back or make it optional - prove that you have learn't from the past and adapted and evolved from your Incarna moment. Dont roll this in to another 5k subsription loss moment of madness, get it back to Sisi, get it fixed then deploy it.
it's not incarna 2.0
Back then they didn't say "oh man we're unhappy with it tooa nd will fix it" they waited like a month before saying"ok ok we're dumb sorry."
So no it's not the same, but you'r point is still on mark. Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
Spanking Monkeys
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
101
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 08:29:00 -
[410] - Quote
WolfSchwarzMond wrote:CCP Optimal wrote: I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, l.
Ok I've tried and tried to figure out a way to use this thing as well as the old one...It cannot be done. Here is why. Opening multiple cans/wrecks lags the entire game. For mission looting this makes the game almost unplayable. For Jetcan Miners like me it causes us to lose cycles which is lost isk. The loading time on the windows is just unacceptable. 0.5-2mins to load your own hold if your're in a POS. 3mins to load a Ship Maintence array. Opening all the holds on a Rorqual or an Orca now takes twice as many clicks as it did and you have to play with the little tree. Opening Corp hangers where you can read them requires a window that is so very large, you can't really do anything else. Opening Corp hanger with Security Roles and a Large Corp will almost if not totally crash Eve. The little graph that indicates cargo hold seems to generate lag. The new window header and footer makes the amount of room to see Items even smaller then the old way did making you blow the window up bigger resulting in less room to work mutiple windows. This is a major issue when working a Rorqual/Orca It does not remember window locations/size when you dock/undock If you misclick and don't press shift you have to start all over. Try picking No Back Button. The Filters tree? menu? won't stay down. When you remove Items from your cargo hold into the Item hanger using only 1 window, it auto sorts them forcing you to search for the new items. Think of having to haul in some mods for a new ship fitting, Before you could justdrop them in the Item hanger get in new ship fit the mods cause they were at the bottom of the items. Now drop them in, get in new ship and SEARCH for mods they're not at the bottom like they were they're sorted in with everything else..... The search function on the new UI RESETS every time you change Hangers/hold this makes locating a specific item a pain. Moving large amounts of items generates Lag or results in some Items not being moved. It is now stupidly easy to drop something in the wrong location.....forcing you to go look for it. Previously if you had Tab 2 in your Orca Corp hanger opened and then opened POS Corp Hanger or SAA Tab 2 would open by default. Now it just opens the 1st tab. The loot all button does NOT stack ore in the holds nor does it give you the option to take just as much ore as will fit in your hold it's all or nothing. EVERYTHING to do with dealing with items now takes LONGER and is harder to do. This system IMHO is a step BACKWARD in that it is not simple to operate. You are forcing us for some reason I cannot fathom to use a system that is inherently more difficult to operate then the old one. This is not a "get used to it issue" This system is not as intelligent as the old one. A great number of your CUSTOMERS, are upset about your product. You need to be willing to accept that while someone thought this was the way to go, your CUSTOMERS, the people you work for, the people who PAY you for your product DO NOT LIKE IT. Do us all a favor. Admit the mistake and correct it This CCP Optimal wrote: and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Is IMHO the wrong thing to say. Most people will read it as "this is what you will now use. Get used to it." Also CCP made it, CCP can UNMAKE IT so it is not technically impossible. Saying that is lying to your customers. It may be difficult and you don't want to do it, that doesn't mean you cannot do it. I'll leave you with this Quote "The greatest lesson for me is the realization that EVE belongs to you, and we at CCP are just the hosts of your experience." -Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson, CEO You are failing as hosts at this time.
this needs to be said until you at CCP take it on board.
you have broken your product, no amount of time or use will take away from the fact that a reduction in functionality is not acceptible. the system is broken as a concept. 'you need multiple windows so we give you one..' that the hell were you smoking when you came up with this? why didnt you wait to roll this on to tq, when all the feed back said it wasnt ready? |
|
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
751
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 08:34:00 -
[411] - Quote
TravelBuoy wrote:MotherMoon wrote:Mullethead wrote:Dear CCP
We appreciate that you want to make this new inventory clicky clicky work and for persistence you all get top marks...well done (golf claps).
What many/alot/tons of us REALLY want is a way to revert to the old style of inventory. Heaps of us have been asking for a button to tick to do this for a week now.
Granted this new inventory has some nice features but (its a big but) lets not turn Eve into "File Tree Online"!
It takes a lot longer to do just about anything with this inventory.
Please for the love of all thing Amarrian give us a way to disable the damn thing and revert to the old inventory sytle and system!
If you can do it for ship spinning/CQ you can do it for this.
Its only a little check box. The check box is allready there. It closes the tree. It's in the items window itself And i have button for hide you posts. :P This inventory tree is crap. We want separated windows. We dont want to see pos modules in our cargo.We dont want push shift+mouse buttons thousand times ,over and over because bad developed UI. We want chop this trees. It's a spaceship game, who want to docking up to inventory ? Thats why i said , this is a "DockingInventoryBay" This is ridiculous and unlogic thing. Bring back the old hangar button.
well then son you better stop hiding my posts because I've already said everything you just said. All i said was the button is already there to hide the tree UI. How did you get all angry from that? it's almost like what you just posted was 100% unrelated to what you quoted :/
my posts was in SUPPORT of your post. man you guys gotta calm down you're even attacking you're allies now.good luck with that.
oh i'll spell it out you're most liekly still raging while reading this.
THE NEW UI ALREADY HAS A BUTTON TO CHOP THE TREE OFF. IT"S A BUTTON IN THE TOP CORNER LOOKS LIKE THIS. <<
THIS MEANS WHAT YOU ARE ASKING FOR IS ALREADY IN REACH. ALL THEY NEED TO DO IS TIE THE BEHAVIOR OF THE ITEMS UI TO THE LITTLE BUTTON THAT CLOSES THE THE TREE UI.
Do you not get why being able to close the tree ui is a good thing? or how it means it would be optional as soon as it remembers that you closes the tree? Stop being such a child. you're acting like just knowing the tree could be opened would ruin the game for you. please, if that's really the case, then your a dunce.
seriously go back, read my posts asking for the old hanger buttons and for all windows to open ina new window unless the tree is used.
then make it so the tree remember if it was opened or closed.
i want ALL WINDOWS to be opened in a new window unless the tree is used.
so the only thing you'd have to deal with is the >> button taunting you.
Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
Cloned S0ul
Blood Fanatics
76
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 08:47:00 -
[412] - Quote
I login to eve, i pres double click on my ship in left corner and it only open next tab to drone bay ! but i want open my ship hangar while i double click on ship name not a f u c king bar below bar to drone bay, fix your ******* broken **** or i uninstal your game.
Yes im drunk and mad even i love you CCP and hate you simultaneously!!!
FIX this sh it now now!
NO FIX FOR THIS ****, NO FEEDBACK need, because you lie to us, you dont lysten to comunity and you dont lysten to people form test serwer, ROLBALCK IT BACK NOW! |
Abigail Sagan
Active Fusion Cold Fusion.
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 08:50:00 -
[413] - Quote
The new missiles effects look nice in EVE. Thanks for those. I cannot tell if War Declaration system is good or not, because we haven't gotten to try it because the new Unified Inventory system is in the way.
However, there is a good thing in everything, even the new Unified Inventory system. In the last couple of weeks I, my brother and our friends have had good time playing Dungeon Defenders, Left 4 Dead 2, Team Fortress 2 and other fun games. Thank you CCP.
Our subscriptions run out some time in September, so you have that long to prove us that the game is again playable and especially that it is worth our time and our money. Thank you for your cooperation.
Here are some features that need fixing: - The new interface is laggy - especially with a POS or many cans/wrecks in grid like during salvaging or mining op. - The new interface takes too much space from screen. - The new interface involves too much scrolling up and down the tree. - The new interface does not obey the old keyboard shortcuts, and if it does, it won't do it correctly. - Shift+Click spawned windows don't remember their location & state. - I don't need multiple instances of the same cargohold open at the same time. Does someone? - I & my friends don't have any ships with Fuel bay, but it looks like that could use some fixing too. - The price tag in inventory looks nice. Hopefully it isn't a big source for the lag of the inventory system. If it is, I can live without it, and so can my friends - if they cannot, I will kick their collective butts. - CCP did not listen to SiSi feedback. That cannot be helped in this case, but maybe in future you could so? At least you should.
I believe you are already working on some of the above and maybe they will be solved by the patch today. I really hope so, but I am afraid you still have a lot to do. --- /me docks her ship to a hangar, and hangs her coat on a hanger before going to play some fun game.
|
Haifisch Zahne
HZ Corp
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 08:59:00 -
[414] - Quote
There is a very simple solution to this mess: hand the project over to CCP Punkturis.
Oh, she is going to hate me now. (Sorry, CCP Punkturis, but, we need you badly.) |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
136
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 09:05:00 -
[415] - Quote
I have loved this game from the moment I started playing four years ago, and apart from when I have been away, played most night since then. CCP have screwed things up in the past, but my love of the game has always overcome this.
Until Incarna. That was the biggest mistake they ever made. A lot of people quit over it and many more were very close, myself included. After all the fallout, CCP reverted a lot of the crap that was introduced and redeemed themselves to an extent.
They promised a new philosophy, where they assured us that the players were going to be put first, and how they will listen and act to make this game great again.
A couple of quotes from HilmarGÇÖs letter of apology after Incarna:
GÇ£The greatest lesson for me is the realization that EVE belongs to you, and we at CCP are just the hosts of your experience. When we channel our passion for EVE constructively, we can make this vision a reality togetherGÇ¥
GÇ£But enough talk from me. We all know that much quoted phrase, GÇ£ItGÇÖs not what you say, itGÇÖs what you do,GÇ¥ that will make the difference here. From now on, CCP will focus on doing what we say and saying what we do. That is the path to restoring trust and moving forward.GÇ¥
So, as close as I was to quitting the game over the Incarna mess, I am much closer now. This is not a case of rage quitting, throwing my toys out of the pram or any other type of knee jerk reaction. It is simply the fact that CCP have gone back on everything they promised over Incarna. I just donGÇÖt trust them anymore. It is now clear that most, if not all of HilmarGÇÖs apology was a Public Relations stunt designed to calm the masses with little or no substance behind it.
CCP do not listen any more now than before. For a number of weeks, while the new Inventory was on SISI, they were told over and over that it was nowhere near ready for deployment on Tranquility. They completely ignored the hundreds of posts in a number of threads all over the Forums.
They have now said that this did listen and are themselves, not happy with this new system. For the love of God, if you know that the system is not good, and hundreds of forum posts confirm this, why the hell would you introduce this into the Live server ? You leave it on the test server until it is ready. If I did this in my job, I would be sacked on the spot.
I am finding it very difficult to get the motivation to log on and deal with this deeply flawed and dysfunctional system. Even the simplest of tasks are so frustrating.
The promise of GÇ£weekly updates until it is in a condition we are happy withGÇ¥ is all very well. We have heard false promises before.
My 5 accounts all expire within the next 2 weeks. If it is not in a useable condition by then, I will leave. I may not be the only one.
|
Goran Konjich
University of Caille Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 09:18:00 -
[416] - Quote
Rommiee wrote:I have loved this game from .....ndition by then, I will leave. I may not be the only one.
i feel your pain ... can i haz your stuff please ?
"a diplomat with 425mm briefcase II" |
Elyon Itari
The Restless Masquerade Hedonistic Imperative
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 09:24:00 -
[417] - Quote
This is nothing personal, and Abigail Sagan (a reference to the late, great Carl Sagan?) was just the most well-written list I could find, so I am going to answer by quoting you (I will most definitely hit the 5 quotes limit). :)
Abigail Sagan wrote:Here are some features that need fixing: - The new interface is laggy - especially with a POS or many cans/wrecks in grid like during salvaging or mining op. This has already been optimised and is coming out in today's patch.
Abigail Sagan wrote:- The new interface takes too much space from screen. If you used to have more than one window open, that already took up more space. If you only need one window for what you're doing, well, you can collapse the tree view by clicking the << button in the top left corner.
Abigail Sagan wrote:- The new interface involves too much scrolling up and down the tree. The scrollage should so far only be true for POS management. This is being worked on as well.
Abigail Sagan wrote:- The new interface does not obey the old keyboard shortcuts, and if it does, it won't do it correctly. This may very well be. What shortcuts are you having issues with?
Abigail Sagan wrote:- Shift+Click spawned windows don't remember their location & state. I am sure that this is an easy fix; you can expect this in a matter of weeks, I'd say.
- I don't need multiple instances of the same cargohold open at the same time. Does someone?
What do you mean? In what way are you forced into having two identical cargoholds open?
- I & my friends don't have any ships with Fuel bay, but it looks like that could use some fixing too.
*My friends and I. Furthermore, the fuel bay for capital ships is being worked on as well - CCP even stated so on the first page ;)
- The price tag in inventory looks nice. Hopefully it isn't a big source for the lag of the inventory system. If it is, I can live without it, and so can my friends - if they cannot, I will kick their collective butts.
Wonderful feedback there. I agree completely, it's a lovely system, and I would love to keep it insofar as it isn't a major contributor to lag/delay of the inventory system. Well put.
- CCP did not listen to SiSi feedback. That cannot be helped in this case, but maybe in future you could so? At least you should.
It is true that CCP don't listen all that much to sisi feedback - but the players on sisi are not representative of the entire playerbase. The same goes for these forums.
They could still be better at listening to feedback on SiSi, but it's like a few thousand players at most - way less than 1% of the playerbase. They can't blindly follow the suggestions of those players (though in this case, more feedback listening could have helped a bit :))
Either way, your feedback was well structured and hopefully helped, unlike most of the stone-throwing, flaming, yelling, shouting, and threats of unsubscription - even if almost every member on the forums unsubscribed, it would be barely noticeable in the grand scheme of things. Still a major loss if it is not exclusively the whiny people leaving, though.
Thank you for your time. |
Cloned S0ul
Blood Fanatics
78
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 09:26:00 -
[418] - Quote
Goran Konjich wrote:Rommiee wrote:I have loved this game from .....ndition by then, I will leave. I may not be the only one. i feel your pain ... can i haz your stuff please ?
if you feel our pain give to us own stuf and uninstal, moron!
Stop posting. |
Ta-Dam
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 09:27:00 -
[419] - Quote
Goran Konjich wrote:Rommiee wrote:I have loved this game from .....ndition by then, I will leave. I may not be the only one. i feel your pain ... can i haz your stuff please ?
He will put his stuffz, in your mouth. |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
140
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 09:34:00 -
[420] - Quote
Goran Konjich wrote:Rommiee wrote:I have loved this game from .....ndition by then, I will leave. I may not be the only one. i feel your pain ... can i haz your stuff please ?
I edited my post to answer your completed unexpected response.
Only people with nothing constructive to add bother to say that anymore.
|
|
maxta destroyer
Vanguards of Paragon The Azrael Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 09:46:00 -
[421] - Quote
i tried my best to skim through the posts so i hope im not repeating on whats already been said,
Can we have a shortcut icon in the left margin to our ship hanger again, that was realy usefull, its fine to still have teh ship hanger in the unified inventory but would be great to still have a short cut to get there fast for changing ships to pvp in null sec where seconds count,
and also a corp hanger button, we are used to using this, so putting these back may bring back some great points of the last system and make it easier to use for everyone.
Id like to still have short cuts to my drone bay and cargo bay that can spawn seporate window to drop and drag to. this makes reloading ammo and drones fast and functional. the shift click is not only un natural but it gets some what frustrating trying to open the right windows to reload, and tbh you are never going to have you drone window open by its self or your cargo for that matter so makes sence to make it open in a seporate window by default,
hope you have success in making this new inventory some what more functional in a timely manner,
Thanks for the great work guys
|
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 10:16:00 -
[422] - Quote
Another mistake. When someone changing his active ship to other ship, inventory not change the contents of cargohold. The position on treepanel moving to previously used ship folder.
Check it. Open your cargohold on station and see you have there 1000 missiles (or something what u have in your cargo) for your missile launcher. Now change your ship to other one. What happening ? Nothing!!! No matter if you changed to a cov-ops your previous ship and you have there combat probes in your cargo. You still will see there 1000 missiles, because the UI not change to the active ship cargo hold, just staying on at the previously used ship folder on the treepanel. |
Cloned S0ul
Blood Fanatics
78
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 10:32:00 -
[423] - Quote
TravelBuoy wrote:Another mistake. When someone changing his active ship to other ship, inventory not change the contents of cargohold. The position on treepanel moving to previously used ship folder.
Check it. Open your cargohold on station and see you have there 1000 missiles (or something what u have in your cargo) for your missile launcher. Now change your ship to other one. What happening ? Nothing!!! No matter if you changed to a cov-ops your previous ship and you have there combat probes in your cargo. You still will see there 1000 missiles, because the UI not change to the active ship cargo hold, just staying on at the previously used ship folder on the treepanel.
Every aspect-fearure of new UI is just pathetic. |
|
CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1217
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 10:36:00 -
[424] - Quote
Quick update
As you guys know, we're rolling out a bunch of changes today. Sometime later this afternoon, I'll update the thread with some of the changes coming next, hopefully on Friday. |
|
May O'Neez
Flying Blacksmiths
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 10:42:00 -
[425] - Quote
I'm looking forward to this one :D (and following as well).
Any chance that the issues with state of windows has been fixed, or is it for later ? There's still a lot of cases where the windows open/reopen/reset when we try to duplicate inventory views and dock/undock stations. |
Bent Barrel
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 10:43:00 -
[426] - Quote
not playing atm, just logging in and changing skills, so I did not use the new system much.
so far I like how it looks. however it does not stay open between sessions.
the old inventory, I hade hangar+ships open in station as 2 tabs in a window and no cargo hold open in space. when I undocked/docked/reloged the windows opened in their last positions and as I left them. however the new inventory window does not open automaticaly (even pined) when I relog while I left it open. |
Sudhana
Universal Exports
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 10:44:00 -
[427] - Quote
hey soundwaves
are we able to search our station container in assets window remotely now? if not, can you guys get that done?
thank you |
Sir Halfloaf
Amarrian Bakery Corp
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:21:00 -
[428] - Quote
Lord Loco wrote:Ishanmae wrote:Nice changes, I like it!
Also... thanks guys for being working and monitoring the threads on a Sunday! Agree, but they are still not doing was the most of us want: A option to work with the inventory like the old one. And they ar still not answering why they ignored the feedbck from sisi
This is exactly what i want .. the new ui does not retain opened windows upon undock /redock , If ccp gives me the options to mimic the old UI using the new ui tech then i will be delighted and will shut up |
TTIGER
nul-li-fy RED.OverLord
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:23:00 -
[429] - Quote
CCP censor is best censor
CCP optimal i replied to soundvawe but it deleted ,im repeating it again ;
You = CCP HQ had been put a time waster and lag creator to game . This U-¦I is moronic beyond words ,you are wasting our time for things we were doing with one click.
Movinf stuff around became a pain , warping to a pos to use jump bridge is dropping FPS , salvaging/looting became a torture ,poss tuff another story. You breached one basic principle when you made this crap UI ''change has to be better equal not worse/harder '' . I guess CCP still had not design principles in house but worst is obviously you even not used this crap personally .
Nail in the coffin was removal of the shortcuts (right click menu and ship hangar ) .
Repeating last time show respect to my time dont waste if you waste my time dont wait respect and busineess from me.
I hope you and CCP get it now what you did.
CCP Optimal wrote:I've not been able to be very active on the forums for the last couple of days simple because my time is better spent fixing defects as it is.
First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers.
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. .
|
EvaRoy Hurtini
Catocalypse Meow ZOMBIE KITTY FORCE
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:29:00 -
[430] - Quote
Bring the old back, I am seriously considering not to login every day, cuz i cant be bothered with this new crap inventory when i have to move my items around or fit ships.
the idea of have it as a list wit hall your items/ships/locations etc, is simply terrible. |
|
Loose End
The Big Bambu
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:29:00 -
[431] - Quote
Sakari Orisi wrote:Alec Freeman wrote:the blog link is blank FYI.
And please just gives us an option to disable the new inventory system all together and roll with the old one. Dont fix what isnt broken.
Or should i say dont break what has worked fine for 9 years. Whiner :D I personally think the state of the unified inventory will be very acceptable after these changes (up from barely usable). Keep working on it CCP and it'll be perfect soon!
Won't matter if it attains perfection ....CCP will either change it or screw it up once it's even close to perfect. You do know they quit giving out brown noser points a few years back?
Though Hope is forever present that they can stop fixing that which is not broken and fix that which is. |
Yuna Yee
The Volition Project
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:32:00 -
[432] - Quote
A few wishes apart from those heard over and over again already:
- Please put back the possibility to access the orcas ship maintanance hangar, drone hangar, ore hangar... by rightclicking on the active ship again - no idea why this was removed.
- Why is the Phantasm looking so horribly green now depending on the angle - was that intended ?
and please please give us a "open new window by default" button just to say it once again! |
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:34:00 -
[433] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Quick update
As you guys know, we're rolling out a bunch of changes today. Sometime later this afternoon, I'll update the thread with some of the changes coming next, hopefully on Friday.
Where we can get our paychecks from CCP, if we testing their unfinished, alpha state software parts ???? |
Loose End
The Big Bambu
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:34:00 -
[434] - Quote
Spanking Monkeys wrote:WolfSchwarzMond wrote:CCP Optimal wrote: I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, l.
Ok I've tried and tried to figure out a way to use this thing as well as the old one...It cannot be done. Here is why. Opening multiple cans/wrecks lags the entire game. For mission looting this makes the game almost unplayable. For Jetcan Miners like me it causes us to lose cycles which is lost isk. The loading time on the windows is just unacceptable. 0.5-2mins to load your own hold if your're in a POS. 3mins to load a Ship Maintence array. Opening all the holds on a Rorqual or an Orca now takes twice as many clicks as it did and you have to play with the little tree. Opening Corp hangers where you can read them requires a window that is so very large, you can't really do anything else. Opening Corp hanger with Security Roles and a Large Corp will almost if not totally crash Eve. The little graph that indicates cargo hold seems to generate lag. The new window header and footer makes the amount of room to see Items even smaller then the old way did making you blow the window up bigger resulting in less room to work mutiple windows. This is a major issue when working a Rorqual/Orca It does not remember window locations/size when you dock/undock If you misclick and don't press shift you have to start all over. Try picking No Back Button. The Filters tree? menu? won't stay down. When you remove Items from your cargo hold into the Item hanger using only 1 window, it auto sorts them forcing you to search for the new items. Think of having to haul in some mods for a new ship fitting, Before you could justdrop them in the Item hanger get in new ship fit the mods cause they were at the bottom of the items. Now drop them in, get in new ship and SEARCH for mods they're not at the bottom like they were they're sorted in with everything else..... The search function on the new UI RESETS every time you change Hangers/hold this makes locating a specific item a pain. Moving large amounts of items generates Lag or results in some Items not being moved. It is now stupidly easy to drop something in the wrong location.....forcing you to go look for it. Previously if you had Tab 2 in your Orca Corp hanger opened and then opened POS Corp Hanger or SAA Tab 2 would open by default. Now it just opens the 1st tab. The loot all button does NOT stack ore in the holds nor does it give you the option to take just as much ore as will fit in your hold it's all or nothing. EVERYTHING to do with dealing with items now takes LONGER and is harder to do. This system IMHO is a step BACKWARD in that it is not simple to operate. You are forcing us for some reason I cannot fathom to use a system that is inherently more difficult to operate then the old one. This is not a "get used to it issue" This system is not as intelligent as the old one. A great number of your CUSTOMERS, are upset about your product. You need to be willing to accept that while someone thought this was the way to go, your CUSTOMERS, the people you work for, the people who PAY you for your product DO NOT LIKE IT. Do us all a favor. Admit the mistake and correct it This CCP Optimal wrote: and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Is IMHO the wrong thing to say. Most people will read it as "this is what you will now use. Get used to it." Also CCP made it, CCP can UNMAKE IT so it is not technically impossible. Saying that is lying to your customers. It may be difficult and you don't want to do it, that doesn't mean you cannot do it. I'll leave you with this Quote "The greatest lesson for me is the realization that EVE belongs to you, and we at CCP are just the hosts of your experience." -Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson, CEO You are failing as hosts at this time. this needs to be said until you at CCP take it on board. you have broken your product, no amount of time or use will take away from the fact that a reduction in functionality is not acceptible. the system is broken as a concept. 'you need multiple windows so we give you one..' that the hell were you smoking when you came up with this? why didnt you wait to roll this on to tq, when all the feed back said it wasnt ready?
Here Here! Bravo!
|
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
356
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:43:00 -
[435] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:I've not been able to be very active on the forums for the last couple of days simple because my time is better spent fixing defects as it is.
First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers.
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why.
The best part of this statement is: I do not read the forum but I will implement your ideas. Please write a thread in the forum.
CCP Soundwave: Are you planning to change the UI so, that it is possible to drag several windows out of this unified UI again? Most of the players want more windows than one (BUT NEVER OPEN WITH A SHORTCUT). They want their Icons on the Neocom back. Doubleklicks on Icons and new windows. Why is it so hard to listen to the PAYING customer? |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
146
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:51:00 -
[436] - Quote
Callidus Dux wrote:The best part of this statement is: I do not read the forum but I will implement your ideas. Please write a thread in the forum.
Spot on
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Loose End
The Big Bambu
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:52:00 -
[437] - Quote
Spanking Monkeys wrote:Nova York wrote:What I can not understand is the persistence that CCP has in pushing the new UI. As long as a lot of their customer base is unhappy with the new UI and when even CCP admitted that the new UI is broken why all the pushing forward with the new UI? Why not take your new UI test it, make it free of bugs, ask and listen to the player opinion on Sisi, implement the changes, and then, come with it live. And in the mean time please, let us play. the inventory is a clicky nightmare. ive stated many times and been banned on one toon. i have 9 biting the dust in a week anyhow as i just cant face this bull, so no loss. you ingored feed back on sisi, you ignored teh feedback in the test server forum. you even stated you didnt care what we said, and just what we did. corp hangers at a pos. i need to access 4, all 7 hangers at once. before click on each and open in 1 window, all 4 stacked. with a few clciks i can navgate all of the hangers. now its 28 shift clciks a screen full off windows and a bloody nightmare, with everything taking much longer. ffs give me back my corp hangers back how they were, right click open, 7 tabs all hangers 1 window. 4 stacked windows 28 hangers. did a mass carrier jump, 140 carreirs, we do this every few weeks. why the hell did you take my static windows away. 1 corp hanger, 1 fuel bay. i need to know there is enough fuel to jjump, with out shift clicking the hell out of everything. also why teh hell does the inventory refresh every sec when your in a ball of carriers, wtf is up with that. you ccp optimal dont play eve, thats clear. but for those of us that do., GIVE US BACK ALL OF THE FUNCTIONALITY YOU HAVE REMOVED. deserves a repost...so here ya go... time to pull out the finger CCP...
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Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
130
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:53:00 -
[438] - Quote
Add a tick box to remove estimated prices, this will remove a great deal of the lag associated with opening cans / items etc. Plus it was a stupid idea, trying to be polite, but what the **** was this for exactly? really, think about it, most of us sell our stuff in a trade hub where having this sort of functionality is not required. Why was it not optional from the beginning?
Oh and whilst I'm making the requested 'constructive' suggestions.
1. Add a ship hanger button that links directly to the....duh duh duuuuh ship hanger - 1click only 2. Return the corp hanger button, same thing - opens in a separate window 3. Make the windows stay when they are opened, and not close on dock / undock. 4. Reduce the screen real-estate required for your ******** UI - this one is important 5. Return one click functionality, I need my left hand for other **** than holding the shift key down. 6. Remove spiral vision when we open hangers.
Oh and whilst I hopefully have your eye for a second STOP deleting posts, if you think censorship is going to calm this community down you are seriously playing with fire. If the UI doesn't either get rolled back or made optional this is likely to build and NOT go quiet, I suspect the the CSM will be discussing the censorship of forum posts with you guys fairly soon. |
Lev Arturis
Dark-Rising
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:56:00 -
[439] - Quote
Maraner wrote:
Oh and whilst I hopefully have your eye for a second STOP deleting posts, if you think censorship is going to calm this community down you are seriously playing with fire. If the UI doesn't either get rolled back or made optional this is likely to build and NOT go quiet, I suspect the the CSM will be discussing the censorship of forum posts with you guys fairly soon.
Learn to behave and no post will get removed. |
Xzen Drix
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:57:00 -
[440] - Quote
"CCP Optimal wrote: and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). "
and I must tell you that my account's (6) won't be stretch on any more...
The statement (It's also as good as technically impossible) Is a lie, it was as good as possible before we "got" the unified inventory crap, but then the new UI only affect the back bone (missioners, miners, industraliests WH corps and other POS holders) of EVE and not PvP'ers and isent that the direction EVE been moving towards the latest yeras.
Sincerly not your anymore XZen
PS If the UI problems is sorted I might go to Playing EVE again. (Lag, retarted one window system and for info read on the forums.... ups you don't do that otherwise we woudnt be here NOW)
|
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Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
147
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:58:00 -
[441] - Quote
Maraner wrote:I suspect the the CSM will be discussing the censorship of forum posts with you guys fairly soon.
Probably not. They didn't do a lot about this bag of crap, why start now ?
|
Logicycle
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
28
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:01:00 -
[442] - Quote
I do not ever want to see that stupid hangar tree ever again. I want my Neocom buttons back. You know, the ship hanger button and the Item hanger button.
I want to single click them. A single new persistent window should open when I click them. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
93
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:10:00 -
[443] - Quote
Well looting is now considerably quicker, but the problem still imo is that double clicking on a wreck opens the window in my existing open window (eg my open cargohold).
Why cant it go back to opening in the default position i set it to via double clicking, so that i have cargohold in bottom left and wrecks opening in middle of screen? (and dont tell me that I can do it via shift click, i know i can but thats still a big step backwards to how it was before you cocked all this inventory lark up).
|
Mordarx
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:10:00 -
[444] - Quote
Could we have it so we can open multiple of those inventory windows? I know it sounds counter intuitive but I think it will make feel much less limiting. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7461
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:10:00 -
[445] - Quote
I'll just link to this, this, and this again.
None of those issues are addressed so far, but at least it looks like performance will be slightly enhanced in this first batch. Personally, I still feel that the lost functionality is still a bigger source of annoyance. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Abigail Sagan
Active Fusion Cold Fusion.
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:12:00 -
[446] - Quote
Elyon Itari wrote:This is nothing personal, and Abigail Sagan (a reference to the late, great Carl Sagan?) was just the most well-written list I could find, so I am going to answer by quoting you (I will most definitely hit the 5 quotes limit). :)
AS2: Because of quote limits, I will use "AS1:" before my first comment, "EI:" before Elyon Itari's response. I'll use AS2 before my new response. Hopefully it won't become too confusing. (Yes: C. Sagan was in my mind when the name of the character was discovered) AS1: Here are some features that need fixing: AS1: - The new interface is laggy - especially with a POS or many cans/wrecks in grid like during salvaging or mining op. EI: This has already been optimised and is coming out in today's patch. AS2: I hope CCP's optimization has succeeded properly, and it isn't just a theoretical tweak that has little real effect on the lag. * AS1: - The new interface takes too much space from screen. EI: If you used to have more than one window open, that already took up more space. If you only need one window for what you're doing, well, you can collapse the tree view by clicking the << button in the top left corner. AS2: Yes, << button helps some, after that you just have to resize the window (to reduce the area it takes), and never touch the >> button, or it will mess things up. At least that is what my memory claims - my memory is a quirky thing; I cannot access the game atm so I could check. Also, the old windows could be very small and attached to each other. * AS1: - The new interface involves too much scrolling up and down the tree. EI: The scrollage should so far only be true for POS management. This is being worked on as well. AS2: It also affects things if you have dozen or two ships and dozen or two containers in one station - like I do. Also, it affects things if you don't want the inventory window taking lots of room - either in station, or out in space. Again: I hope CCP does good job here. Separating the tree view from actual inventory might be a good move. * AS1: - The new interface does not obey the old keyboard shortcuts, and if it does, it won't do it correctly. EI: This may very well be. What shortcuts are you having issues with? AS2: The best example I can give here is alt+c: I would like to open a separate window for the ship cargo, not the unified inventory window with all it's lag. If the lag is magically dispelled, I think I can live with the current shortcut. AS2: As a development idea: there could be a shortcut for opening a separate window for the ships in your current station. * AS1: - Shift+Click spawned windows don't remember their location & state. EI: I am sure that this is an easy fix; you can expect this in a matter of weeks, I'd say. AS2: As a programmer I am afraid this isn't as easy as you think. I believe so because the number of those spawned windows isn't currently limited. I think they currently dont's have a way of knowing what inventory windows have already been spawned, and thus need to open new one with every shift+click. Hopefully I am wrong and you are right, and CCP already has a plan to tackle this. * AS1: - I don't need multiple instances of the same cargohold open at the same time. Does someone? EI: What do you mean? In what way are you forced into having two identical cargoholds open? AS2: I am not forced to yes, on the opposite; I am allowed to, and that is what troubles me as you noticed from my previous answer. I would be happy to be limited to one spawned window per container, but I honestly don't know if there is someone somewhere, that needs to have certain cargohold open more than once at a time. * AS1: - I & my friends don't have any ships with Fuel bay, but it looks like that could use some fixing too. EI: *My friends and I. Furthermore, the fuel bay for capital ships is being worked on as well - CCP even stated so on the first page ;) AS2: So it seems; Soundwave mentions it in the thread. Hopefully the players affected by the thing will be happy. * AS1: - CCP did not listen to SiSi feedback. That cannot be helped in this case, but maybe in future you could so? At least you should. EI: It is true that CCP don't listen all that much to sisi feedback - but the players on sisi are not representative of the entire playerbase. The same goes for these forums. AS2: I could be wrong, but I think the reason for SiSi existence and players being allowed there is, that CCP wishes to have (or at least 'has wished to have') input from players. If they don't listen to that input, the reason for SiSi existence is reduced, if not negated totally. Much of the same is true for forum input we provide here. * EI: They could still be better at listening to feedback on SiSi, but it's like a few thousand players at most - way less than 1% of the playerbase. They can't blindly follow the suggestions of those players (though in this case, more feedback listening could have helped a bit :)) AS2: If some people provide their time for CCP testing purposes, CCP should listen to them. They are doing things for CCP after all, and for free. I think the players who have dedicated their time for these tests are to be respected more than the average players. The same is true for the opinions of these players. (And no, I have never taken part in SiSi testing; I expect to be paid for my work, so I won't go to SiSi. I am greedy in that way.) * EI: Either way, your feedback was well structured and hopefully helped, unlike most of the stone-throwing, flaming, yelling, shouting, and threats of unsubscription - even if almost every member on the forums unsubscribed, it would be barely noticeable in the grand scheme of things. Still a major loss if it is not exclusively the whiny people leaving, though. EI: Thank you for your time. AS2: Thank you for opinions, input, time and kind words. Fly safe and may lag never be with you Elyon Itari. forumcharlimitsavedyouguys
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Sodone Gristein
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:17:00 -
[447] - Quote
Here's a modest proposal, add a checkbox in the settings that toggles the following behavior:
1) All actions that open the inventory window (eg: fitting screen icons, neocom icons, keyboard shortcuts, opening containers in space...) open a new window. If the window for that particular inventory location is already open, give it focus. 2) Hide the tree by default 3) Remember window positions and window stacking/tabbing 4) Add context menus to ships for accessing bays (cascading menus perhaps) 5) Add buttons for accessing corp hangars etc. 6) Add separate icons in the neocom for accessing ships and items
I don't know how hard it'd be to implement with the new system but I guess that it'd make 99% of people complaining happy, since this is basically the old behaviour. |
Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
132
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:23:00 -
[448] - Quote
Lev Arturis wrote:Maraner wrote:
Oh and whilst I hopefully have your eye for a second STOP deleting posts, if you think censorship is going to calm this community down you are seriously playing with fire. If the UI doesn't either get rolled back or made optional this is likely to build and NOT go quiet, I suspect the the CSM will be discussing the censorship of forum posts with you guys fairly soon.
Learn to behave and no post will get removed.
Learn to behave? who the hell are you? People are posting on these threads for your benefit as well unless your one of the 1% that actually like the new UI. The community is feeding back about a serious issue and jut because CCP doesn't like what it's hearing is no justification to censor even id some of the posts are off topic. Its the sort of act that can get out of hand, rapidly. |
Mullethead
League of Gentlemen Ethereal Dawn
50
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:29:00 -
[449] - Quote
CCP are obviously at least *trying* to make the new clickyclickyinventory work.
As another poster pointed out they most likey CANT rollback to the old inventory style as this is *probably* the inventory type needed to interface correctly with Dust.
I for one can certainly see the future potential of Eve/Dust/etc and can agree that with mucho development time it will become THE place to be for several different type of game all within a single persistent world. And that'll be beyond awesome
To that end....
Issues I current see that need fix.
1. When swapping ships the old cargo bay needs to close and new open in same place as old automatically or at the least with a double click in the newly boarded ship.
2. We have to have it remembering where windows are and their state (open close pinned etc) for each ship.
3. We desperatly need a right click dropdown on the Orca to open the corp hangers in it. Same for other caps.
4. Needs to have a check box to tick to turn up market pricing info to help reduce the lagfest that this inventory has caused.
5. Hanger item and ship hanger when docked need to remember their position and state. I noticed the ship cargo bay already does this....well done its a start.
6. Desperatly need the buttons back for opening corp hangers when docked. It really needs to open in a new window automatically. Window need to remeber its size/state/position.
These few things will remove much of the nausea many of us fell when trying to do anything. |
Loose End
The Big Bambu
21
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:37:00 -
[450] - Quote
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:Ad'Hakim Tahous wrote:1Of9 wrote:alittlebirdy wrote:Are you people this ******* stupid ROLL IT BACK THATS THE FIX.
and I WANT SOUNDWAVE FIRED
TONS of people looking for jobs LETS GET ONES WHO CAN DO THE JOB WELL. This. I want soundwave head aswell.. this is absurdly stupid. Hello 1of9: It is CCP Optimal and CCP Arrow who gave us this mess. Soundwave's been called in to limit the damage and do what's possible to fix the mess. Fingers crossed for a rollback. Indeed. Soundwave is not to blame as such. But because others have so monumentally screwed up, it's been escalated to him to sort it out as he's one of the top guys at CCP. It's like complaining to a shop and asking to speak to he manager if the assistant is proving unhelpful. The assistants are named above, they thought this would work (it doesn't). Having met Soundwave at Fanfest I know him to as passionate about the game as we are and am confident of a resolution. Have mistakes been made? Many. But asking for the head of the guy that's here to sort out other peoples mistakes seems harsh. Would I prefer a roll-back to the old one? Hell yeah. Am I annoyed that the feedback that myself and many others gave on the test server forums was seemingly ignored ? I'm furious. Do I like everything else about inferno? I love it. It's just a shame that the one thing they balls up with it is such a fundamental aspect to the game, how we interact with it. They're on board now. They're working to fix it. We'll prod them with sharp sticks every now and again to keep them on their toes. That said, I would like to hear from Arrow and Optimal, not for an apology as such but a full breakdown of the design rational for Unifubared Inventory and why they mistakenly believed it would work for all windows rather than just assets, which is where it should be left because there some good points for it in that context.
One has to wonder if Optimal isn't working for the competition. Was it a player who suggested this mess or a Dev? Soundwave takes a lot of flak for things he's got little or no control over. Let's give him a chance to ...well...beat the living hell out of whoever deserves it down there.
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Steijn
Quay Industries
93
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:38:00 -
[451] - Quote
Quote:Performance: WeGÇÖve applied fixes that let you handle larger numbers of items more gracefully. It should be a great deal faster now
dragging from hangar to orca corp hangar is still as slow as **** |
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
96
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:47:00 -
[452] - Quote
Elyon Itari wrote:
- CCP did not listen to SiSi feedback. That cannot be helped in this case, but maybe in future you could so? At least you should.
It is true that CCP don't listen all that much to sisi feedback - but the players on sisi are not representative of the entire playerbase. The same goes for these forums.
They could still be better at listening to feedback on SiSi, but it's like a few thousand players at most - way less than 1% of the playerbase. They can't blindly follow the suggestions of those players (though in this case, more feedback listening could have helped a bit :)
You know, the same goes for the only survey in which CCP asked the player base explicitly about the User Interface. And like CCP Optimal wrote, they based their decision to change the inventory part of the UI on that survey:
CCP Optimal wrote: THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. 2400 (former) EvE players participated in that survey. 23% of them regarded 'Excessive number of windows required to perform a task' as the biggest defect of the EvE online User Interface. That is a meagre 552 people. That is a very small number to base a mayor change in how players interact with the game on. Especially of you take into account that that the possible answers to the question consisted of several (and only!) negative qualifications to choose from.
The survey in question can be found here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Surveying_UI
In my opinion you can not decide to make a change like this based on the feedback of a very small number of people (and defend that change by stating that 'surveys show that people want this), and at the same time dismiss legitimate feedback on the forums as coming from to few people.
Mind you, reading the forum posts about the new Inventory and talking to people in game has thought me one thing: a lot more players than 552 do NOT like the way this has been implemented. Including me. Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
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TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:48:00 -
[453] - Quote
How could be make better this Inventory Inventory nightmare if they dont want to give back for us the old one.
1. Options for treepanel to change view type, how the dual panel filemanagers is working. (icon view,folder view ,tab view etc) and a switch button to turning off or hide treepanel. Not for just the right side panel need other design view, but the left side treepanel too.
2. Need separated windows, for easy handly work, forget the shift+click repeating boredom.
3. If you guys still want this horrible Treepanel, give to us one option for create separated and persistent windows. Enable for us to create new windowicons what we should to move to interface bar without other tree folders. That's helping for players to separating, shiphangar, POS interfaces etc. And help for reach those windows with one click from GUI Iconbar and give to free choice for players using treepanel or they just using their separated windows without treeview.
4. Another important thing needs. Filter for empty treefolders, we want to hide all if we dont want to use them. Just waste of inventory view space. Should be fine one options if i dont want to see the unuseable pos modules or other unnecessary folder, to hide without loading.
5. Smaller windows borders. At least at price "calculating idiotism" position. Or give to us an option which is disable it.
6. Do not load up the fully inventory data to clients everytimes when user opened a subfolder. That's why need horrible time for opening cargos. 30 sec load time when i open my cargo at pos. Why ? Because the smart developer upload to my cargo the all posmodules on the grid and no matter i have access to pos or not, no matter i'm at enemy pos or ally. LOL That's a mistake, a big useless server resource wasting.
This options not need old inventory codes, but give back to old functions. So, no one can hiding behind "we cant give back old inventory" but smart proggramers can supplements the new codes with ideas which to close up the old and new inventores nearly towards each other. |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
148
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:52:00 -
[454] - Quote
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote: In my opinion you can not decide to make a change like this based on the feedback of a very small number of people (and defend that change by stating that 'surveys show that people want this), and at the same time dismiss legitimate feedback on the forums as coming from to few people.
Mind you, reading the forum posts about the new Inventory and talking to people in game has thought me one thing: a lot more players than 552 do NOT like the way this has been implemented. Including me.
Yeah, and I bet if you did that survey now, 90% + would prefer the old one to this crock of crap.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7463
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:01:00 -
[455] - Quote
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote:You know, the same goes for the only survey in which CCP asked the player base explicitly about the User Interface. And like CCP Optimal wrote, they based their decision to change the inventory part of the UI on that survey: CCP Optimal wrote: THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. 2400 (former) EvE players participated in that survey. 23% of them regarded 'Excessive number of windows required to perform a task' as the biggest defect of the EvE online User Interface. That is a meagre 552 people. That is a very small number to base a mayor major change in how players interact with the game on. Especially of you take into account that that the possible answers to the question consisted of several (and only!) negative qualifications to choose from. GǪand even if they feel that 23% is enough to act on, the right course of action isn't to make everyone comply with what those 23% feel, but rather to give those people the option of a different workflow without interfering with the workflow of the remaining 77%.
An GÇ£excessive number of windowsGÇ¥ was never a problem with the old inventory system for me GÇö four (the absolute maximum of inventory windows I ever needed to open) is not excessive and created a far more efficient workspace than the new UI can ever dream of creating. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that I need more windows now than I did before because I can't set up the tabbed stacks I used to have to speed up the inventory management process. Instead, I have to shift-click-open a whole bunch of them until the number becomes far more excessive than it ever was in the past.
Removing functionality for everyone to please a very small amount of people is about as wrong a way to go as could possibly be imagined. Making it slower and buggier as icing on the cake just makes the faceplant that much harder. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Mangone
Domination. En Garde
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:03:00 -
[456] - Quote
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote:Elyon Itari wrote:
- CCP did not listen to SiSi feedback. That cannot be helped in this case, but maybe in future you could so? At least you should.
It is true that CCP don't listen all that much to sisi feedback - but the players on sisi are not representative of the entire playerbase. The same goes for these forums.
They could still be better at listening to feedback on SiSi, but it's like a few thousand players at most - way less than 1% of the playerbase. They can't blindly follow the suggestions of those players (though in this case, more feedback listening could have helped a bit :)
You know, the same goes for the only survey in which CCP asked the player base explicitly about the User Interface. And like CCP Optimal wrote, they based their decision to change the inventory part of the UI on that survey: CCP Optimal wrote: THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. 2400 (former) EvE players participated in that survey. 23% of them regarded 'Excessive number of windows required to perform a task' as the biggest defect of the EvE online User Interface. That is a meagre 552 people. That is a very small number to base a mayor change in how players interact with the game on. Especially of you take into account that that the possible answers to the question consisted of several (and only!) negative qualifications to choose from. The survey in question can be found here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Surveying_UIIn my opinion you can not decide to make a change like this based on the feedback of a very small number of people (and defend that change by stating that 'surveys show that people want this), and at the same time dismiss legitimate feedback on the forums as coming from to few people. Mind you, reading the forum posts about the new Inventory and talking to people in game has thought me one thing: a lot more players than 552 do NOT like the way this has been implemented. Including me.
So let me get this straight.. Theres been some survey that i have never even heard of. And 23% of that 2400ppl said they didnt like UI too much. Let me get these numbers again 23% didnt like it too much and it got replaced with one that 95% hates.. Thats pretty nice 23% was just not liking it too much they didnt hate it. Now u have 95% of players hating it.
BTW. I wouldnt gave too much faith in survey with 5% of players in it...
GJ
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7464
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:19:00 -
[457] - Quote
Mangone wrote:BTW. I wouldnt gave too much faith in survey with 5% of players in it... That's not a problem if the sample is representative. It would actually an unusually large portion of the population (but then again, 2,400 people isn't 5% of the player population).
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Mangone
Domination. En Garde
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:28:00 -
[458] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mangone wrote:BTW. I wouldnt gave too much faith in survey with 5% of players in it... That's not a problem if the sample is representative. It would actually an unusually large portion of the population (but then again, 2,400 people isn't 5% of the player population).
Well i dont actually know the real player base. I just threw numbers out of my head :p
But still if they make survey why dont they tell it for example in eve launcher. So people would know about it and participate in it. I have never tought myself that there could be something wrong with the UI.... But still even if there was some secret survey it doesnt change the fact that sisi feedback told this new UI isnt any better actually its worse than old one. And this is not first time this happens. Aslong ive been playing this game and they have been testing something on sisi they have everytime brought it on TQ even it didnt work on sisi and i wonder why is that. Why patch something on TQ that doesnt work on test server? |
Ilkahn
Ideal Machine
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:34:00 -
[459] - Quote
Mangone wrote:
So let me get this straight.. Theres been some survey that i have never even heard of. And 23% of that 2400ppl said they didnt like UI too much. Let me get these numbers again 23% (of 2400) didnt like it too much and it got replaced with one that 95% of all playerbase hates.. Thats pretty nice 23% (thats around 600 ppl) was just not liking it too much they didnt hate it. Now u have 95% (thats around 50k accounts and 20-30k? ppl) of players hating it.
BTW. I wouldnt gave too much faith in survey with 5% of players in it...
GJ
Link your survey or it doesn't exist... which 95% hate it? I personally enjoy it although it needs ironed out. I do find it somewhat easier to see things now when im in station.
We do need to seperate the corp hanger out of the general tab or have it so that it's not lumped in with our stuffs. I've already experienced dumping items i didn't mean to into the corp hanger. Not cool.
We do need the ability to open our cargo in space without opening the entire window (like the old way, that would be nice).
Overall, i give CCP a 93 on the job. It's not a 100, but no inventory system will ever make everyone happy. I think the starting players will find it a bit easier than those who have played awhile.
One thing i've noticed about eve players, they clamor for change right up until the time it's delivered and then commence to belly ache about the "good ole days". Good job CCP, so long as i can log in and play EVE i'm happy! Keep it up. |
Kblackjack54
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
60
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:40:00 -
[460] - Quote
Interesting that CCP Dev's should consider that the number of open windows is the failing factor in the old UI when most tasks done using it required only two or three at most for the vast majority of players.
If like myself you run Corp tasks in station or at PoS then a considerable amount of windows may need to be opened in isolation or groups to accomplish a given task but this is mitigated by the fact that under the old UI each window opened was specific to the space that was needed to be worked with, could be quickly and simply resized/stacked or just lined up.
When working with these windows no shift clicking was required unless you were splitting stacks and all windows has persistence so that clicking on one of them did not cause the whole layout to be radically altered requiring a reset and if closed for any reason would open again as required in the original layout you had selected as most efficient for the task at hand.
That all of the above to the greater extent is now lost to players, though I will admit with some work a player can achieve a temporary semblance of the original, all again is lost once you turn to another task and the whole process must be gone through again to get back to what was once a very simple method of working.
In addition to this there is the tree structure panel, which when working with large inventories such as in station or at PoS can become very long indeed cluttered as it is with non context information and taking up a lot of space on screen, necessary for it to be worked with at all. That all windows now open as default in the main UI window causing obstruction of other windows then requiring back tracking using the tree structure to move around the various places players may and need to go causes frustrating mistakes to be made and adds to inefficiency in working such environments, However constant shift clicking we are told can gain a temporary 'Work Around'.
To this we must add operations such as mining and salvaging, once a simple efficient task requiring at most two windows open, that of the cargo hold and that of the subject can or wreck hold we now find that multiple shift clicking is required to achieve a very inefficient 'Work Around' requiring only a single miss click to cause this work around to collapse into the unified inventory screen once again or leave the player with a confusing duplicate window complete with contents in both windows and no container ID to let you know what the hell you are actually looking at, the contents of a can, wreck cargo hold or your own ships hold are now displayed in both windows.
Apart from the fact that this console game type of inventory has probably been forced in on the orders of SONY it is surprising that CCP would vaunt this abomination to a PC game as in some way an 'Improved Feature', then admit that it is 'Not as they intended' and then feign surprise that players almost across the game are not happy with there latest messed up update.
Since release of Incarna CCP has of course learned that they should offer forward there finest spin doctors to perform damage limitation, but they also learned that the player base is not as gullible as they had hoped and does pay the bills, but even so they have quickly tried to dispel any hope that the players will not get anything they need here by there blank refusal to reinstate the old UI right up front while promising to tinker with the new one in the hope that they might get some semblance of acceptance from the players or at least silence the complaints before SONY calls a halt to there activities.
Why are they so hell bent on this, it is not because it is any good for EVE, it's because SONY want full and easy compatibility with there console system so that migrating players will recognise and understand EVE as they multi box there PS3 and PC. |
|
Steijn
Quay Industries
94
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:45:00 -
[461] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Well looting is now considerably quicker, but the problem still imo is that double clicking on a wreck opens the window in my existing open window (eg my open cargohold).
My opinion has now changed, its faster, until you get a fair few items in your noctis and then its back to the lagfest that it was. |
Mangone
Domination. En Garde
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:56:00 -
[462] - Quote
Ilkahn wrote:Mangone wrote:
So let me get this straight.. Theres been some survey that i have never even heard of. And 23% of that 2400ppl said they didnt like UI too much. Let me get these numbers again 23% (of 2400) didnt like it too much and it got replaced with one that 95% of all playerbase hates.. Thats pretty nice 23% (thats around 600 ppl) was just not liking it too much they didnt hate it. Now u have 95% (thats around 50k accounts and 20-30k? ppl) of players hating it.
BTW. I wouldnt gave too much faith in survey with 5% of players in it...
GJ
Link your survey or it doesn't exist... which 95% hate it? I personally enjoy it although it needs ironed out. I do find it somewhat easier to see things now when im in station. We do need to seperate the corp hanger out of the general tab or have it so that it's not lumped in with our stuffs. I've already experienced dumping items i didn't mean to into the corp hanger. Not cool. We do need the ability to open our cargo in space without opening the entire window (like the old way, that would be nice). Overall, i give CCP a 93 on the job. It's not a 100, but no inventory system will ever make everyone happy. I think the starting players will find it a bit easier than those who have played awhile. One thing i've noticed about eve players, they clamor for change right up until the time it's delivered and then commence to belly ache about the "good ole days". Good job CCP, so long as i can log in and play EVE i'm happy! Keep it up.
You see ur in that 5% liking it :p
No i didnt make survey. U need to read feedback threads so u can see how many like it with u.
U maybe can log in to eve and be happy. I can log in eve and be unhappy because being in station is terrible shift cliking hell.
Dont get me wrong tho i dont think that UI would be total waste. Its just broken atm. And todays fixes are not fixing it.
Theres few my fixes for it from inferno 1.03 thread
"You guys need to fix these ASAP.
1. When u open item windows in station they should remain where u left them even when u undock/redock. They should remember their positions and sizes by default but if its too hard pls even fix the pinning on them so next time i dock they would be there where i left them without having to click anything.
2. R-click needs to work as clicked above ships with options open cargo bay / drone bay / fuel bay / shipmaintance bay
3. Double clicking unactive ship needs to open its cargo/inventory NOT change ship." |
Seismic Stan
107
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:59:00 -
[463] - Quote
Splitting hairs over exact percentages aside, it seems clear to me that feedback from a small sample was used to justify a project that had already been decided. The opening post of CCP Optimal's "How should we improve the inventory UI?", posted in January 2012 in the Features & Ideas Discussion subforum, clearly suggests this with the leading example:
CCP Optimal wrote:Example: ISSUE: The huge pile of windows that you end up with when performing simple inventory management tasks FIX: Make it possible to manage your inventory through a single window that lists all the accessible inventory locations as well as making it easy to browse and drag items between them So even at that initial player consultation stage the multiple window "problem" had been targeted and the task had already been assigned to the team. Reading through the thread linked above, It is interesting to note that many players embraced the concept initially and suggested some of the features that have since been included.
If it is true that the number of windows in the UI was a chief concern for many survey respondents, I feel that focusing on a single UI element such as the Inventory System was a misinterpretation of the problem. EVE is a sandbox game with a huge amount of options available to the player. As such it needs a powerful toolset to enable players to access every aspect of the game - this comes with the need for multiple windows as a necessity. Inventory management alone rightly needs multiple windows to allow for the flexibility of multiple use cases.
I believe that the "overwhelmed by windows" sensation that the survey respondents were referring to comes more from the variety of tools (ie. windows) than any specific one. This is not something that can be fixed by removing functionality, although I appreciate the attempts to streamline some of the more unwieldy tools makes sense. But a more elegant way of moving between the tools would perhaps be a better solution than neutering one in particular.
I am hopeful that buried somewhere within the ill-judged Unified Inventory design is the technology to holistically improve the entire UI. It certainly needs it and I would welcome a smoother, slicker, more user-friendly interface. Freebooted - Tech4 News - Incarna: The Text Adventure - Guild Launch EVE Correspondent |
Fukushuu Shinaide
The Big Bambu
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 14:06:00 -
[464] - Quote
2400 FORMER EvE Players?...FORMER?..and they based it on that? Let's poll people who find Rubik's Cube too difficult and ask them what they'd like to see in a design change. They take a poll and then ignore the feedback. Something isn't quite right here. Communication breakdown or some slight misunderstood request has led someone down the wrong road of thought. The new devs here need to understand that EvE pilots LOVE Eve without equal. There is no substitute. One can not compare it to WoW or StarTrek or Pong and be fair about it. We Eve players do not think of ourselves as different...we ARE different. We're problem solvers and think tanks with an addiction to internet spaceships. I realize these new fellows did a lot of work and possibly this is their best creation ever. It's hard to put forth your Frankenstein and see the Villagers throw stones at it. You probably love your creation that you put together for Eve. But it has to be sent back. You'll do better next time. We're a hard bunch to please but we're just as forgiving in the end. Ask CCP Soundwave. Another problem you may, or may not, be facing is the realization that the denizens of New Eden are not 13 year old kids with some money sent by granny for a birthday present. We tend to run a bit higher in the rankings when it comes to having both life experience and educations. I retired and sold my business and have moved to Europe...at age 45. My darling wife is a doctor. My kid pushes burgers out at passing cars...but she was a WoW player. I warned her. What I am attempting to get across is that you're on a level field here. You've got to understand that you can not just put something half cooked in front of us and expect us to dine on it much less pay money for it. Earlier someone made a comment that the people who spent the time to help test the product were only a tiny fraction of the player base and were dismissed as being a useful source. Well you have to remember they are 100% of your test source. If they think it's bad it's because they took the time to really go look at it. Not because they hate change. Not because they are naive or have acne. They did it out of pure LOVE for EvE. Unpaid dedication. Pure unadulterated sacrifice of time, energy and possibly a good time in nice weather were sacrificed to help YOU. And you chose to ignore it. Well take your Frankenstein Monster of a Unified Screwup and go back to the castle gents. It's unacceptable even with the updates.
|
Zebs Clone
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 14:11:00 -
[465] - Quote
aparently, you can petition to have your game time frozen and your account deactivated until after they fix this mess.
just open a petition in suspended accounts and the nice accounts department will do it. just ask for your account time to be frozen and your account suspended til after its fixed as the game is unplayible. this way all those now click infested industrial alts can sit there until they get it fixed
aparently ccp actually know they have an issue, there just not letting on. |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
163
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 14:12:00 -
[466] - Quote
Is this true CCP? This idea came from a dissatisfaction servey filled out by people who never stuck around? And was implemented by a guy who has played less than 1 month? And somewhere, someone thought this would all turn out great?
If I face palm any harder, I am going to need hospitalization.... |
andyminer
Careb Air Cascade Associates
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 14:20:00 -
[467] - Quote
So am I right in thinking that this new UI is the same as the one in Dust? Not owning a PlayStation I haven't even looked at it. If so the a reversion to the old system is not going to happen even if they lose a hundred players. What do they care? they will have an army of 13 year olds playing a shoot em up and therefore will increase their revenue. How can a company take a well loved product and change it to suit another product that hasn't even been released properly yet? ruining the loved one in the process! the logic behind this baffles me. I will however hold my hands up and say this. If it's to do with your new game coming out soon and you are not able (or perhaps willing) to revert to the old system. All you had to do was own up to this and we wouldn't be so annoyed. If it's the case then work within the new framework to bring us back as much functionality as we had with the old system. I see that you updates are coming currently at three day intervals, at least your doing that but is there anyway it can be done faster?. Numerous people have asked why was this implemented in such an unfinished state? Is it to do with Dust? How long it's going to take before the UI is complete and functions as we want? Are you now throwing all your resources into this or are you just a couple of guys trying to fix something that doesn't work? Basically want I would like to see is more information about what your doing in Iceland. That should come in say a twice a day post detailing what you think are good ideas from the players and what you think is rubbish. I have seen some posts from CCP employees but they are not frequent enough. I know you will get flamed by some players but at least you will be keeping us "in the loop" better. Come on guys, keep us more informed.
Andy
|
TTIGER
nul-li-fy RED.OverLord
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 14:30:00 -
[468] - Quote
of course nothing will change if needs to calculate prices everysecond for items ,more items = more calculation =more lag =more data transfer
Steijn wrote:Steijn wrote:Well looting is now considerably quicker, but the problem still imo is that double clicking on a wreck opens the window in my existing open window (eg my open cargohold). My opinion has now changed, its faster, until you get a fair few items in your noctis and then its back to the lagfest that it was.
XZEN my dear friend this UI effects everbody you dont know how i have a nightmare when im movig around in hangars at my carrier as 0.0 player and i wrote fps drop and other things at my postsbefore . Only a few not effected people are people loggin g to train skill .Everyone else effected. Carriers/capital ships are a nightmare now .
Xzen Drix wrote: Is a lie, it was as good as possible before we "got" the unified inventory crap, but then the new UI only affect the back bone (missioners, miners, industraliests WH corps and other POS holders) of EVE and not PvP'ers and isent that the direction EVE been moving towards the latest yeras.
Yes , Eve is managed by survey results since 2006 ,Do you think why learning skills removed ? I dont know knw how ong devs ingame but know they did not use their crap from implemantaion.
Maul555 wrote:Is this true CCP? This idea came from a dissatisfaction survey filled out by people who never stuck around? If I face palm any harder, I am going to need hospitalization.... |
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
70
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 14:32:00 -
[469] - Quote
Patches today are still non-functional in many real world use scenarios.
We NEED multiple windows to remember their individual states/content ect if anything other than just plain old shooting things is going to be not mind blowingly complicated and irritating.
It should NOT be possible to open multiple windows witht he exact same content, ei, your ships cargo hold...why every window resets to that when the local inventory scene changes, i'll never understand. When mining with my orca, i do not need the orca's corp hold(s) to switch to display my hulk's cargo hold when the orca warps away. Why does it do this? It has to be 'as intended' b/c you were told 5 weeks ago this was bad, but ignored it. So WHY?
And, since The Window has to be soo large to do anything with at a POS, that i need to make it go away, since all i really need is my shift-clicked cargo hold (that i still have to shift-click open way more than i used to, please tie the "cargo hold" button on the hud to the smaller shift-clicked cargo window!
But if i 'Close" THE WINDOW, and dock...now i have to close every single one of my shift clicked windows in order to get the main station window to come back at regular size...then have to re shift click all my other windows back open...please fix this.
Stop band-aiding this huge stink of a mess and just rollback until it is READY and approved on SiSi...like should have happened the first time.
Again, my accounts would have been unsubbed if there was any way to get a refund on the yearly subs...since mine rolled over just before this mess hit the fan...
Cant wait to see the dmg this caused...considering the last debacle... http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
Mistah Ewedynao
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
44
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 14:36:00 -
[470] - Quote
It's still horrible. I am losing items in this mess, not to mention a HUGE isk loss because I was confused trying to move find/things with this joke of an inventory system. The isk loss was a typo, and I mean huge (to me) loss of over 3 BILLION isk. Now I can't find a couple of important BPO's
U can't roll this back? Well I can damn sure roll out of here with my 5 paying accounts.
1. Everything is harder, NOT easier.
2. More lag, in some cases MAJOR
3. I am getting RSS from all this extra clicking
You have taken all the fun out of what I do, and now it's a serious chore to do anything. |
|
Zebs Clone
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 14:38:00 -
[471] - Quote
Panhead4411 wrote: Again, my accounts would have been unsubbed if there was any way to get a refund on the yearly subs...since mine rolled over just before this mess hit the fan...
Cant wait to see the dmg this caused...considering the last debacle...
just get them frozen, will take you an email to get them activated again, but at least this way, you dont have to play eve with this terrbad Ui. can just mail them to reactivate your remaining game time once they finally get this fixed |
Imuran
Zentor Industries
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 14:48:00 -
[472] - Quote
1) Still takes 30+ seconds to access my last corporate hanger, looks like its insisting on building all the branches of the other hangers (with lots of containers in) before finally getting to the hanger I want to access. At least with the previous system you could switch to the desired hangere and have it build its contents
2) Put the item count and value on the same line to save a bit of border space or better still give an option to turn off as its value is marginal to say the least.
3) Double clicking on a wreck should open it in its own window like it use to do and not have the tree view associated with that window
|
Xzen Drix
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 14:55:00 -
[473] - Quote
: ) TTIGER if U wana quote me pls do correct... or don't quote me at all
Xzen Drix wrote: "CCP Optimal wrote: and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). "
and I must tell you that my account's (6) won't be stretch on any more...
The statement (It's also as good as technically impossible) Is a lie, it was as good as possible before we "got" the unified inventory crap, but then the new UI only affect the back bone (missioners, miners, industraliests WH corps and other POS holders) of EVE and not PvP'ers and isent that the direction EVE been moving towards the latest yeras.
Sincerly not yours anymore XZen
PS If the UI problems is sorted I might go to Playing EVE again. ATM log on do skills and log off until sub expires (Lag, retarted one window system and for more info read on the forums.... ups you don't do that otherwise we woudnt be here NOW)
U quotet me----
TTIGER wrote:XZEN my dear friend this UI effects everbody you dont know how i have a nightmare when im movig around in hangars at my carrier as 0.0 player and i wrote fps drop and other things at my posts before . Only a few not effected are people logging just to train skill .Everyone else effected. Carriers/capital ships are a nightmare now . Xzen Drix wrote: Is a lie, it was as good as possible before we "got" the unified inventory crap, but then the new UI only affect the back bone (missioners, miners, industraliests WH corps and other POS holders) of EVE and not PvP'ers and isent that the direction EVE been moving towards the latest yeras.
|
Eutectic
Aperture Harmonics K162
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 14:57:00 -
[474] - Quote
OK I've given the new Inventory UI a chance and all I can say is wow what a terrible experience.
Building or working out of a POS is simply still a horrible lag filled experience, 20 to 30 sec waits for inventory screens to load and that's after waiting the first 10 to 20 secs for the lame tree to populate. Moving things around to various containers, cargo holds, hangers etc. is a right nightmare too, requiring various shift clicks and/or right clicks to get proper windows open so you verify you moved things where you wanted to.
Station wise the experience is not much better since doing anything with corp hangers is laggy and overly complicated as well.
Please for love of god CCP just give up on this Unified Inventory thing and go back to old system. It was at least relatively responsive to user inputs and not near as lag prone. Just chalk this up to a failed experiment and roll it back.
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Myn Fel
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 14:59:00 -
[475] - Quote
I neeeeed two seperate windows open everytime I dock automatically. One with station assets and one with my ships cargohold. I don't want to shift click every time.
I am a freighter pilot for Red Frog Freight who runs multiple freighters. I have accidentally not grabbed pakcages and flown empty freighters across New Eden more times in the last week than in the last year with the old inventory system. It really sucks not having seperate windows automatically open by default anymore.
The new system is a real PITA for someone who does about 1000 courier contracts a month. |
Bullz3y3
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 15:18:00 -
[476] - Quote
The new UI even with changes will never be usable because not everyone plays on a 24 inch or bigger monitor. That seems to be the smallest screen that I would need to properly use this abomination. Even then it would have to fill the whole screen. Before I could use my small 13 inch laptop screen with no problems! |
Arco Arachni
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 15:18:00 -
[477] - Quote
CCP Soundwave .. you promised an performance boost with the latest update. Let the devs know, it didnt happen. Still needs time to open up a corp hangar. You dont know ... miss clicked or it is still working ... clicking it again results in the corp hangar closing again .. once after a while it opened. gargh
Moving 100 blueprints from A to B still results in LAG and time for a coffee break ... thats uncool. With the old system, the client responded to other actions I did in the UI ...
All my other points in former posts still apply .. do I need to repeat them? |
Zebs Clone
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 15:21:00 -
[478] - Quote
Bullz3y3 wrote:The new UI even with changes will never be usable because not everyone plays on a 24 inch or bigger monitor. That seems to be the smallest screen that I would need to properly use this abomination. Even then it would have to fill the whole screen. Before I could use my small 13 inch laptop screen with no problems!
i play on 2 26inch monitors and this thing takes up all of it when i need to do something at a pos.
you cant polish a turd. and thsi is something ccp are trying to do
stop is ccp, revert back to the old one.. you have back ups, you have the code sat there, fix what ever it is stoping you putting it back on tq and get it done |
May O'Neez
Flying Blacksmiths
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 15:25:00 -
[479] - Quote
Perhaps the lag may be not "network" side only. I have no lag at all with an hangar containing several thousands items. However, I have a high-end machine (quad core bought last year, GTX 560). |
Mangone
Domination. En Garde
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 15:26:00 -
[480] - Quote
Myn Fel wrote:I neeeeed two seperate windows open everytime I dock automatically. One with station assets and one with my ships cargohold. I don't want to shift click every time.
I am a freighter pilot for Red Frog Freight who runs multiple freighters. I have accidentally not grabbed pakcages and flown empty freighters across New Eden more times in the last week than in the last year with the old inventory system. It really sucks not having seperate windows automatically open by default anymore.
The new system is a real PITA for someone who does about 1000 courier contracts a month.
+1 and i dont even fly freighters or do couriers.
My brains starts to work in station when i have ship hangar, item hangar and active ship cargo open in separated windows. So first thing to do everytime i redock is to reopen these windows. U guys need to fix these. This UI is not working before these are fixed to remember their place and size even after redocking maybe even reloggin... |
|
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
600
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 15:40:00 -
[481] - Quote
Let me get this straight, the lead game designer is "not happy" with a feature, but apparently didn't manage to get anything done about it the entire time it was up on the test server and they still released the unfinished test server version that everyone had been complaining about for weeks with no changes to try and correct the plethora of problems with it.
Over and over again you hear people from CCP talk about not rushing features to meet expansion deadlines and giving players what they actually want, yet this expansion has just been full of textbook cases of rushing features and ignoring warnings from the userbase about how gameplay is going to be negatively affected.
Stop releasing unfinished crap that nobody wants. |
Drak Fel
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 15:48:00 -
[482] - Quote
Shift clicking to open a seperate window every time I want to move something is a pain in the ass.
Not doing this and just dragging items to the left, if you aren't just right you drop the **** on the wrong line, and don't have it when you go out to fight. Not to mention that if you don't release the mouse fast enough you change to that container so then you have to reselect the one your were dragging stuff from.
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Stop releasing unfinished crap that nobody wants. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
1061
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 15:50:00 -
[483] - Quote
Eutectic wrote: Please for love of god CCP just give up on this Unified Inventory thing and go back to old system. It was at least relatively responsive to user inputs and not near as lag prone. Just chalk this up to a failed experiment and roll it back.
Or make it a "semi-unified" inventory. The tree is actually nice for cases where you have a single layer of containers, it just starts to suck wind when you get into 2-3 layers of little arrows. And it breaks down when you have more then 20-30 nodes in the tree because you have to vertically scroll a lot. For instance, if:
Alt-G - Opens up my personal hangar in a dedicated window (that remembers its settings and position). Then, in the left-hand tree view, the only nodes that appear there are (a) the hangar floor and (b) one node for each assembled container that I have in my personal hangar.
Because there's no extraneous stuff there, the tree actually becomes somewhat useful. Not as great as opening up containers in a tabbed stack. But it is at least possible to drag things from my personal hangar floor into my containers, without going through strange contortions. I don't have to worry that I'm going to drag them into a corp hangar by accident. If I find that the tree view won't do it, I can always double-click the containers or the tree nodes to break those out into a new window (and then tab-stack those windows that if needed).
Plus, if we could filter which containers show up in the tree list based on their name (by typing into a little text box at the top of the tree list, as suggested earlier in the thread), it would probably make using the tree more useful then dragging to a tabbed stack of container windows. Filtering by location name / location type name in the tree list would help a lot.
The "semi" unified inventory would be based around the concept that the following all open up their own dedicated inventory windows by default.
Corp Hangar button - only displays the corporate hangars at that station, with the divisions as the top level in the tree, and the containers as the second level.
Deliveries button - displays a simple container, with *no* tree option at a location that gets saved
Member Hangar button - only displays member hangars, each member is the top level in the tree. With the ability to filter by name in the tree view, this would make finding member hangars a cinch over the current system.
Personal Hangar - Alt-G shortcut, only my personal hangar, my personal containers, and nothing else
Ships hangar - Alt-N short cut - only my ships, and nothing else, optionally folded into the personal hangar shortcut.
Current ship's cargo - Alt-C short-cut, only the cargo and containers in my current ship. It needs to remember its size and settings by ship class. Freighters often have different window layouts then interceptors or carriers or other types of ships.
After that, you get into the stuff out in space.
Non-anchored can/wreck - should open up in a simple window dedicated to "non-anchored wrecks/cans". If the can/wreck vanishes, the window should close. If multiple wrecks/cans are opened at the same time, then create the tree view. Cans/wrecks should never be added to the tree view unless the player clicks the "open" button in the overview, and they should vanish from the tree view if they drift out of range.
Anchored stuff - should open up in a window dedicated to "anchored stuff in space". Things like POS fuel bays, labs, silos, arrays, secure containers.
Fleet member ships - Orcas, Rorquals, carriers, the ship maint bays and corporate hangar bays. These are unique enough that they deserve their own dedicated window. I'm tempted to say that "in-space ship bays" should have a separate window from "corporate hangar bays in space" because I think it gets too cluttered if you can have both in the tree at the same time. |
Sturmwolke
206
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 16:07:00 -
[484] - Quote
Seismic Stan wrote: If it is true that the number of windows in the UI was a chief concern for many survey respondents, I feel that focusing on a single UI element such as the Inventory System was a misinterpretation of the problem.
That pretty much describes the gist of the fundamental problem at one glance - CCP's bad intepretation, leading to an over engineered "solution" that's almost inane in the practical sense for many users. Either they've done this deliberately, or there's a major disconnect in experience level for the designers.
There's one example that I like to quote (because it sticks in memory) for one of the more successful implementation of a UI overhaul done by CCP in EVE -> the contract system. Whomever that ran it (CCP Atlas?), was able to clearly distinguish the issues faced by players and take those feedback to improve the contract system to such a degree that it was a joy to use it. Hands down, it was a significant IMPROVEMENT from the old contract system.
Next take a look at one of these site that discuss (a PVP) screen layout - http://www.evealtruist.com/2012/04/screen-layouts-for-pvp.html From it you can tell, what functions are valued above others in a PVP situation ... and that's just one site. A savvy designer would have looked at those functions from a more holistic perspective and then figure out how to turn it into something more intutive, without sacrificing the critical functions.
In the Unified Inventory change, to me it looked like they threw everything to the wind with just one singular focus - one window items manipulation, take it or leave it. The message is: this is how players should do things from now on because we (i.e CCP) think it's an improvement that will pave way for more improvements later on. There is no way in hell that it wouldn't end up in a disaster that sucks up resource to fix. To the management, "after the fact" fixing always end up more costly, for both tangible (e.g. short term subs/PLEX, work resources etc.) and intangible cost (e.g. goodwill, brand reputation, employee morale etc.). |
Eutectic
Aperture Harmonics K162
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 16:11:00 -
[485] - Quote
One thing I've noticed is that the Corporation hangers tree is very and I do mean very slow to load if you have divisions with containers in them that contain hundreds of items.
If I had to guess this lag is because the code has to iterate over all the items in each container to load the tree before it can be displayed. In my case I have several hanger divisions that contain 10 to 30 containers with each container containing 200 to 700 items. I'm seeing 30 sec plus load times on my Corp Hanger tree view when I attempt to expand it. If I go to a different station with corporate hangers that do not contain containers with hundreds of items it's pretty fast load.
For those that will say, simple then don't put so much stuff in cans, I reply remember that we are limited to maximum number of items that can be in any hanger so cans are a must for organizing complicated inventories.
Perhaps it would be possible to not load the containers unless they are clicked on, similar to the way that the Corporate hanger tree nodes don't load until you click to expand. |
Omega Tron
Amarr Mining Inc Technical Exploration Conglomerate of Hemera
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 16:28:00 -
[486] - Quote
Well Soundwave, when I first started trying to use this new Unified Inventory system, my thought was man you DEVs really screwed this one up. However, as I continued to use it and corrections that you've applied today, I actually think I am begining to find ways that it actually is an improvement over the old system. I am still not sure which way, the old one, or this new approach will win me over, but I am willing to try what you have come up with as long as you continue to work it and not run off to the next new approach. And again thanks for listening to everyone and for the continued tweeks. My view of EVE and I don't-álike it.-á ========================================================= EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Oma Lorche
Bros Cartel
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 16:29:00 -
[487] - Quote
when moving some stuff into station containers they appear locked even when containers setting are set to "unlocked". Dont know if anyone else got same problem. |
Arra Lith
HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 16:30:00 -
[488] - Quote
Fix that SHIFT crap. If there is window A (ie pos corp hangar or ship cargo hold) opened and I click on silo -> access container I want corp hangar to stay opened WITHOUT NEED TO PRESS SHIFT. A new window should be opened without old one being closed. |
Bayushi Akemi
Hisec Sentai Coalition.
19
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 16:33:00 -
[489] - Quote
If you're really insistent on keeping everything in one window, would it be possible to add a second container view panel to what you have so we can drag drop from one to the other? Also, please make all the window elements hideable and stop preloading everything.
Basically it would look like this:
Tree | Panel 1 | Panel 2
You could start with currently open container and then drag the new container you wish to open (or add right click) onto the second panel. That would make people's lives easier for now.
Thank you for adding active ship back. That was nothing short of annoying. Also, use your version 1.0 code for the assets window as that would be better than having to click everything to open/collapse.
I'm willing to deal with an old/new hybrid as mentioned in another thread which I have linked in my sig. Please look at that and comment on ability to implement at least the temporary window related changes.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1354941#post1354941
Fundamental Problems with New UI. Also, see Tippia's post |
SportBilly
GHOSTS OF THE FIRST AND ONLY
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 16:37:00 -
[490] - Quote
Well as expected , the update has improved only 5% of the actions in using the UI. Still spinning dics loading masses of items. (Yes guys those of you with few items can use the new system effectively, but this is a long term game not wow.)
The UI is is only usable for the majority ini ts previous format, roll it back or loose more accounts.
Inventory should be part of the assets and should not interupt / slow down normal gameplay, where time is imperitive for survival.
Its a sad day to suspend the subscription but its unplayable in its present form. |
|
Andy DelGardo
Hedion University Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 16:39:00 -
[491] - Quote
Oma Lorche wrote:when moving some stuff into station containers they appear locked even when containers setting are set to "unlocked". Dont know if anyone else got same problem.
Have the same problem, atm this setting seems to-be ignored. Maybe we should try to reassemble those containers? |
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
129
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 16:44:00 -
[492] - Quote
The bugs and lag are improved. I'm glad to hear a DEV say a blog about the next tweak wave will come out today, cuz they have work remaining.
The problem I can't overcome is the whole design. When I set up my work space, I place and size windows to minimize mouse movements simply for the speed of operations that results from moving 2mm instead of 50mm. This is the case for all in-station tasks. It is CRITICAL for tasks in lo sec space.
A POCO is fairly good example: - access CO --> select launch pad --> execute transfer --> repeat for all relevant materials - warp to 10km --> approach - aim camera directly backward - at 2.5K, 2X-click to initiate a 180 --> inertia carries you in <2km --> proximity decloak ensues - grab the PI matz and/or xfer between cargo hold and CO - monitor distance and cloak when >2km
You have only a few seconds to grab your stuff and recloak. I found a wreck 10km out from one of my neighborhood POCOs today, so apparently somebody didn't rehearse and/or couldn't adapt to the new UI...
Back to screen geometry. - bigger windows block my view of space making me more vulnerable and less confident in the maneuver. - bigger windows mean I cannot place them close enough to do a lightning fast cargo xfer - more time decloaked = more chance of gankage - enough lag remains that my ops are affected noticeably during cargo xfers. Fractions of seconds DO matter.
Bottom line for me: - the old system afforded great efficiency via excellent user defined screen geometry - the new system makes me feel I must be OCD/anal retentive about screen geometry - the new system takes more effort to not only set up, but to use, AND I still cannot find that sweet spot I had last week. - the new system has turned confidence in my lo sec skills and maneuvers into increased paranoia, as in, this **** is gonna get me killed. So, I successfully mastered the learning curve, and found that it does not work as well as before.
From lurking in local chat and monitoring all the customary trash talk, it would seem that the PvP guys are doing fine with the new system, although, I'd sure like to hear from some hardcore, trash talking PvP guys in this thread.
I have already listed many quirky bugs, and others have too. I'm sure all that stuff will get ironed out. But is the new UI a better, more efficient design that enhances game play? No. - trim down bloated window size - removing the market numbers would be a great first step. - provide an on/off switch for the market stuff so it eats up CPU and screen space ONLY when you want it too. - get rid of the tree as an integral part of every window. The tree must increase memory consumption, meaning it will perform more slowly than NOT loading in the whole tree.
CCP: Don't work harder - work smarter. You are kicking your own buttocks now because you weren't smart enough to listen to feedback when this code was still on SiSi. |
|
CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1219
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 16:59:00 -
[493] - Quote
Hey guys
I just wrapped up a quick devblog detailing the changes we're releasing Friday. We're going to monitor the state of the changes throughout the day/afternoon and if it looks like the goals in the blog can be achieved, we'll release it tomorrow morning.
Anyway, blog goes out tomorrow unless anything goes horribly wrong today |
|
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
129
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 17:05:00 -
[494] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Hey guys I just wrapped up a quick devblog detailing the changes we're releasing Friday. We're going to monitor the state of the changes throughout the day/afternoon and if it looks like the goals in the blog can be achieved, we'll release it tomorrow morning. Anyway, blog goes out tomorrow unless anything goes horribly wrong today Say Soundwave : can you answer a question for me?
SiSi rules repeatedly state "do not overlaod the server" in various forms. I want to test on SiSi using the exact tasks I perform on TQ.
Would trading/xferring 10Km3 of assorted mission loot constitute "overloading the server" ? If not, I can better test real live situations on SiSI.
Thanks.
|
Zebs Clone
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 17:06:00 -
[495] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Hey guys I just wrapped up a quick devblog detailing the changes we're releasing Friday. We're going to monitor the state of the changes throughout the day/afternoon and if it looks like the goals in the blog can be achieved, we'll release it tomorrow morning. Anyway, blog goes out tomorrow unless anything goes horribly wrong today
why would it go wrong, your not rolling out another UI today are you? |
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 17:20:00 -
[496] - Quote
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:It's still horrible. I am losing items in this mess, not to mention a HUGE isk loss because I was confused trying to move find/things with this joke of an inventory system. The isk loss was a typo, and I mean huge (to me) loss of over 3 BILLION isk. Now I can't find a couple of important BPO's
U can't roll this back? Well I can damn sure roll out of here with my 5 paying accounts.
1. Everything is harder, NOT easier.
2. More lag, in some cases MAJOR
3. I am getting RSS from all this extra clicking
You have taken all the fun out of what I do, and now it's a serious chore to do anything.
And still we are the alpha tester, but the developing phase just going on the wrong way, on a way which increasing the players hate.
|
Glarbl Blarbl
Orion-Glarbl Mining Bureau
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 17:26:00 -
[497] - Quote
I had a thought for a nice extension of the new UI, for after you guys get it back to proper functionality...
Add a column for estimated market value, so we can sort by market price.
Thanks! |
Di Mulle
74
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 17:28:00 -
[498] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Hey guys I just wrapped up a quick devblog detailing the changes we're releasing Friday. We're going to monitor the state of the changes throughout the day/afternoon and if it looks like the goals in the blog can be achieved, we'll release it tomorrow morning. Anyway, blog goes out tomorrow unless anything goes horribly wrong today
I docked at station,Ii made separate windows for my ship cargo and my hangar. Undocked, docked back - contents of them are changed. This is one thing I would like to be addressed -for the starters. It nicely outlines the fundamental underlying problem anyway.
Until then... what use of those devblogs... <<Insert some waste of screen space here>> |
Gizan
Hounds Of War WHY so Seri0Us
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 17:48:00 -
[499] - Quote
Well, i have now completely stopped playing eve, 4 more of my 21 accounts have expired, only 2 remain subbed for roughly 2 more weeks, then i will be fully out of eve because of this horrible experiance since the new invintory system made the game 70-80% unplayable for me.
good job CCP at Fkkking over your loyal customers.
-21accounts and an 06 player. |
GeeBee
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 17:51:00 -
[500] - Quote
My open cargohold of active ship button is still broken.
used to open cargohold of the ship then close it - could we get it back to working like that?
currently it opens unified inventory on first button. then it opens a window with the cargohold, then it opens more windows of the cargohold......
had this function bound to my keyboard since 2006, please restore to previous functionality |
|
Sugar Kyle
The humbleless Crew Capital Punishment.
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 17:55:00 -
[501] - Quote
Another small thing but it was very nice:
I have my ships/items merged into my station tab. I've played like this since my first week when I discovered the option.
However, before, I could drag stuff from my cargo and dump it on top of the window and it would go into the hanger, even if the ship tab was the 'top' tab. Now, if the ship tab is the top tab the items stay in my cargo. I can adjust my habit, an I have. However, it was nice that the window was smart enough to put the items in the items hanger. If I dropped it on top of a ship the ship cargo filled. However, if dropped in a void area, items went to the item hanger. |
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
163
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 18:06:00 -
[502] - Quote
+1 for lag reduction when working @ POS
-3 for the rest of it, both @ POS and just puttering around in high sec
Glad for those having success w/ new system. Am not one of them, and am not alone. System require additional steps in a manner disruptive to game-play.
Recommended fix: Rollback to Sisi, where it belongs. |
Laserham Lincoln
Dollars and Sense Inc. EVE Trade Consortium
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 18:21:00 -
[503] - Quote
Is there any chance we'll get persistence back? I really really liked having a little window with my ships, and a larger one with my items whenever I docked in a station. It gave me a really quick, at-a-glance way to see what I had set up there. I can sorta kinda get that with the new system, but it takes effort and I have to redo it every single time I dock. I'd be a lot more on board than I am now if the new system would at least remember how I want it to look instead of forcing me to redo it every 20 minutes.
Also, please make the window stop opening whenever I undock. |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
508
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 18:34:00 -
[504] - Quote
Soundwave,
Not sure if this is a Mac thing only but your salvaging "fix" now freezes the UI every time I try to open up a wreck.
Another thing that changed is that with the cargo bay open while salvaging/ looting if you 'select all' then 'stack all' the not really needed or wished for average sale price of the whole cargo bay goes down, then up after another 'stack all'.
Also why did my station container reset to put things thrown in as locked while that was not the case before the patch? So far loading is a bit more faster but can get a lot more faster to get even close to the way it was.
Waiting on the rest of the fixes to bring the 'inventory of horror' back in line with the way things where. Who needs television when you have EVE? EVE drama, best drama. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
181
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 18:36:00 -
[505] - Quote
Sarmatiko wrote:Quote:Looting: Cargo containers and wrecks will function the same. Having multiple wrecks or containers open should be easy to loot as you can just click GÇ£loot allGÇ¥ and it will automatically go to the next item on the list instead of your ships cargohold. There is an added performance increase as well. Great. Now, can we have shortcut for "Open Container"? It's been 1.5 years since new shortcuts were introduced.. I was actually surprised to find there wasn't one. Can we please have this oversight fixed in the near future? Would be greatly appreciated. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
97
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 18:37:00 -
[506] - Quote
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:Before inferno, I would dock and my ship hangar, items, and corp hangar would all be open right where I left them. I could see everything I owned and interact with it instantly.
That was really nice. I think it's something we should have again.
This. If you can do this, then the new inventory with the new filter improvements are great. But FFS, please let me have my ship hangar and items windows open in the same spot all the time in station. |
Trotula
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 18:38:00 -
[507] - Quote
Your alpha (not even beta) level 'upgrade' to the un-unified inventory system, is frustration wrapped in irritation, dipped in aggravation that is then deep fried in inconvenience.
Soundwave, go look up Dunning Kruger effect. Though by looking what you call workmanship on this vexation of a user interface re-design, I doubt you'll understand why it applies to you.
Normally after a expansion I would be logging hours into Eve Online. Now I log in just long enough to fight with the inventory system, which is usually in less than a half hour, and log out. I'm pretty much just setting skills at this point.
Sorry, I'm not willing to pay CCP to be Soundwave's alpha tester and QA department. This pedantic pile of code should never have made it onto the test server, let alone TQ.
All accounts canceled. |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
754
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 18:50:00 -
[508] - Quote
Mordarx wrote:Could we have it so we can open multiple of those inventory windows? I know it sounds counter intuitive but I think it will make feel much less limiting. You Allready can. Note the >> button in new Windows Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
N3LLY
MUNKI.MINERS.INC
57
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 19:05:00 -
[509] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Hey guys I just wrapped up a quick devblog detailing the changes we're releasing Friday. We're going to monitor the state of the changes throughout the day/afternoon and if it looks like the goals in the blog can be achieved, we'll release it tomorrow morning. Anyway, blog goes out tomorrow unless anything goes horribly wrong today
MONITOR THIS GAMES STILL BROKEN email me when you fix it im out of here GAME SUCKS NOW YOU BROKE IT
THANKS UI IS CRAP GET RID AS SOON AS POSSIBLE P.S. CAN I GET A REFUND FOR LOST GAME TIME ?
|
Cloned S0ul
Blood Fanatics
84
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 19:33:00 -
[510] - Quote
Hahaha i found somthing awesome for you CCP you should start form here.
Upgarde complete 2 in Kongregate.
The first basic upgare in this flash game is caled user interface :D love it is about spaceships ;) full of irony... |
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Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 19:57:00 -
[511] - Quote
There are two things I am looking for, mainly:
1) I open a window, move it to where I want it, size it to the size I want it...stop making me re-do that every time, please. It should remember the settings from the last time, or at least the items hangars and ship cargohold.
2) I want the ability to open those two items (the item hangar and the ship's cargohold) very quickly upon entering a station, . I would really like it to default to having those to open when I enter a station.
Keep up the effort, guys! |
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CCP Optimal
C C P C C P Alliance
202
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 19:58:00 -
[512] - Quote
That works just fine on my machine. Probably because I just fixed it though. Will be on TQ later this week.
GeeBee wrote:My open cargohold of active ship button is still broken.
used to open cargohold of the ship then close it - could we get it back to working like that?
currently it opens unified inventory on first button. then it opens a window with the cargohold, then it opens more windows of the cargohold......
had this function bound to my keyboard since 2006, please restore to previous functionality
|
|
Mathieollo
Ind Inc
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 20:02:00 -
[513] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:That works just fine on my machine. Probably because I just fixed it though. Will be on TQ later this week. GeeBee wrote:My open cargohold of active ship button is still broken.
used to open cargohold of the ship then close it - could we get it back to working like that?
currently it opens unified inventory on first button. then it opens a window with the cargohold, then it opens more windows of the cargohold......
had this function bound to my keyboard since 2006, please restore to previous functionality
any chance you could poke the light defender missiles so there's launchers in the game that can fit them one of these fridays please? i know it's not a priority but it would be nice if we could get it sneaked in! :) |
Zebs Clone
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 20:06:00 -
[514] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:That works just fine on my machine. Probably because I just fixed it though. Will be on TQ later this week. GeeBee wrote:My open cargohold of active ship button is still broken.
used to open cargohold of the ship then close it - could we get it back to working like that?
currently it opens unified inventory on first button. then it opens a window with the cargohold, then it opens more windows of the cargohold......
had this function bound to my keyboard since 2006, please restore to previous functionality
when are you getting all the right click on objects(ships, pos hangers, mods towers) back in? when will they right click, click into a new window?
when will corp hanger open in 1 window with all 7 tabs there? when will i be able to do this on many hangers and open each into a new stacked window with all 7 tabs on?
when will all the short cut to specfic hangers in station be back? will they open specific hangers in specific windows where i left them apon clicking(not shift clicking)?
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1223
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 20:11:00 -
[515] - Quote
Di Mulle wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:Hey guys I just wrapped up a quick devblog detailing the changes we're releasing Friday. We're going to monitor the state of the changes throughout the day/afternoon and if it looks like the goals in the blog can be achieved, we'll release it tomorrow morning. Anyway, blog goes out tomorrow unless anything goes horribly wrong today I docked at station,Ii made separate windows for my ship cargo and my hangar. Undocked, docked back - contents of them are changed. This is one thing I would like to be addressed -for the starters. It nicely outlines the fundamental underlying problem anyway. Until then... what use of those devblogs...
This is one of the issues what should be dealt with Friday. |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1223
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 20:12:00 -
[516] - Quote
Ad'Hakim Tahous wrote:+1 for lag reduction when working @ POS
-3 for the rest of it, both @ POS and just puttering around in high sec
Glad for those having success w/ new system. Am not one of them, and am not alone. System require additional steps in a manner disruptive to game-play.
Recommended fix: Rollback to Sisi, where it belongs.
More POS changes coming Friday, among them tree view of everything, visibility of what you can use and general performance increases. |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1223
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 20:12:00 -
[517] - Quote
Laserham Lincoln wrote:Is there any chance we'll get persistence back? I really really liked having a little window with my ships, and a larger one with my items whenever I docked in a station. It gave me a really quick, at-a-glance way to see what I had set up there. I can sorta kinda get that with the new system, but it takes effort and I have to redo it every single time I dock. I'd be a lot more on board than I am now if the new system would at least remember how I want it to look instead of forcing me to redo it every 20 minutes.
Also, please make the window stop opening whenever I undock.
Yep, will get exactly that. |
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Selas Rega
New Republic Initiative Mercenaries
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 20:25:00 -
[518] - Quote
why dont deal with it tomorrow and remove the UI until you did it well and it works like the old one? did you fire your quality managment? |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1226
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 20:29:00 -
[519] - Quote
Selas Rega wrote:why dont deal with it tomorrow and remove the UI until you did it well and it works like the old one? did you fire your quality managment?
Removing the UI would be a great deal more complex and time consuming than just making it better than the old one. This isn't something that can easily be detached. |
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CCP Optimal
C C P C C P Alliance
203
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 20:33:00 -
[520] - Quote
This is a very good point. Now I can't promise that we'll get around to it right now, as there is plenty of other stuff that's higher in priority atm, but I'll note this down for sure.
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Sarmatiko wrote:Quote:Looting: Cargo containers and wrecks will function the same. Having multiple wrecks or containers open should be easy to loot as you can just click GÇ£loot allGÇ¥ and it will automatically go to the next item on the list instead of your ships cargohold. There is an added performance increase as well. Great. Now, can we have shortcut for "Open Container"? It's been 1.5 years since new shortcuts were introduced.. I was actually surprised to find there wasn't one. Can we please have this oversight fixed in the near future? Would be greatly appreciated.
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Selas Rega
New Republic Initiative Mercenaries
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 20:34:00 -
[521] - Quote
And you are really aware of how many players of that 40k online atm are now wasting time with this inventory - waiting with performance issues, getting stressed at production, ship switching, carrier using, pos using etc... maybe you just calculate how many hours that are.
This people are paying you. |
yunafan2004
Nox Noctis Industrius Novus Dominatum
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 20:34:00 -
[522] - Quote
Cloned S0ul wrote:Hahaha i found somthing awesome for you CCP you should start form here. Upgarde complete 2 in Kongregate.The first basic upgare in this flash game is caled user interface :D love it is about spaceships ;) full of irony...
Hey now this game is actually fun! CCP's version isn't! |
Mangone
Domination. En Garde
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 20:35:00 -
[523] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Di Mulle wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:Hey guys I just wrapped up a quick devblog detailing the changes we're releasing Friday. We're going to monitor the state of the changes throughout the day/afternoon and if it looks like the goals in the blog can be achieved, we'll release it tomorrow morning. Anyway, blog goes out tomorrow unless anything goes horribly wrong today I docked at station,Ii made separate windows for my ship cargo and my hangar. Undocked, docked back - contents of them are changed. This is one thing I would like to be addressed -for the starters. It nicely outlines the fundamental underlying problem anyway. Until then... what use of those devblogs... This is one of the issues what should be dealt with Friday.
Sounds good..
Il be alot happier if those separated windows would remember their positions. And not just disappear so u need to reopen them everytime after redocking.. |
arria Auscent
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
38
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 20:37:00 -
[524] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Selas Rega wrote:why dont deal with it tomorrow and remove the UI until you did it well and it works like the old one? did you fire your quality managment? Removing the UI would be a great deal more complex and time consuming than just making it better than the old one. This isn't something that can easily be detached.
wrong only someone with no skill would say that
the old UI has been on for years and works fine put the old one back and stop messing us about even if it means rolling back the entire inferno patch |
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CCP Optimal
C C P C C P Alliance
203
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 20:37:00 -
[525] - Quote
You can fix this yourself through the system menu / shortcuts tab. Just rebind ALT+C to "Open cargo of active ship" instead of "Open Inventory".
Sanya Mazepa wrote:ALT + C inside station should open your cargo, instead it opens the unified invenotry window with whatever you were looking at last... this is not how it should be. Please fix asap!
Overall a nice addition to eve once all the kinks are ironed out. +1
|
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Mistah Ewedynao
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
48
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 20:40:00 -
[526] - Quote
While you Dev's are taking notes, I have stuff and isk literally disappearing before my eyes.
I put things into my items hanger and they up up in random containers instead. I have at least one BPO that just disappeared after a production run was completed, at least I think that was when it disappeared.
I am not really sure what else is missing but that BPO for sure, and the 3 BILLION+ isk that I petitioned and haven't heard a thing about. |
Andy DelGardo
Hedion University Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 20:46:00 -
[527] - Quote
For me still the most annoying part is that all empty devisions are shown of every Lab/Array i have in the tree-view, i have to scroll like crazy to accomplish anything. I now also regularly have to use my ships cargo-hold separated window as a temp-storage, since i cant simply drag&drop between 2 lab devisions that are separated by 10x7 empty and expanded devisions. I sometimes even face the problem that i have to think really hard how i can move things around if my cargo-hold is full and wont work as temporary storage. I never had to think with the old system and now i need to utilize "tricks" to accomplish the same, while needing much longer and more clicks for all interactions.
Also on a sidenote, why do i have to-be in 3000m range to access POS modules? Its really hard to position yourself exactly in the middle of 10 modules, just so can access and move things around. So increase this range for POS modules to 8-15km. I even had to rebuild my arrays so i can access them if i sit exactly in the middle, just because of this stupid 3km range limit.
thx |
Dirch Passer
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 20:48:00 -
[528] - Quote
Any chance we could have the 'reprocess' and 'repackage' options, in the rightclick-menu, moved a tiny little bit further apart? |
Andy DelGardo
Hedion University Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 20:50:00 -
[529] - Quote
Dirch Passer wrote:Any chance we could have the 'reprocess' and 'repackage' options, in the rightclick-menu, moved a tiny little bit further apart?
+1 and also for "Reverse Engeneering" and "Trash it...", i hit this "trash it" menu like 5 times a day, sometimes on stacks that are worth billions, but i have to click "RE" like 100 times a day. |
Marisol Shimaya
Artic Circle The I.D.E.A.
65
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 21:11:00 -
[530] - Quote
Marisol Shimaya wrote:What in the world is this
Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click
What is next Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click ect....
Do you think this is fun?
I don't think so. So CCP you need to come up with something else an this Clicking make me dissy Fight For Our Rights |
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Mei ra'Zhault
Kimotoro Trading Company
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 21:15:00 -
[531] - Quote
Mangone wrote:3. Double clicking unactive ship needs to open its cargo/inventory NOT change ship.
as above
At the very least, if you're going to do this shift-clicking thing, make shift-clicking the ship icons in the hangar open their inventory. Come on, give me something. |
Donaldo Duck
Nomad Inc. Hansa Teutonica
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 21:19:00 -
[532] - Quote
today i found myself multiple times clicking "back" on mouse . . . but nothing happend
is there possible a way to make it work like in the browser back and forward the last open cans/hangars/views? |
Dirch Passer
State War Academy Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 21:20:00 -
[533] - Quote
Mei ra'Zhault wrote:Mangone wrote:3. Double clicking unactive ship needs to open its cargo/inventory NOT change ship. as above At the very least, if you're going to do this shift-clicking thing, make shift-clicking the ship icons in the hangar open their inventory. Come on, give me something.
As a matter of fact, you can doubleclick on the ship on the hangar floor, and the cargohold opens. I kind of accidentally discovered this yesterday
EDIT: nvm. I misread unactive ships. Sorry. |
Lord Loco
LOCO TRUST
74
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 21:23:00 -
[534] - Quote
Good fixes CCP, but i miss:
1.double click a ship needs to open ship cargo 2.drohne hangar/fuelbay in a right click menu 3.ship hangar in neo-com 4.corp hangar at the old location
|
Mathieollo
Ind Inc
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 21:23:00 -
[535] - Quote
speaking of opening your current ship's cargohold, where you have you hidden that option while you're in space? i know there's a UI button near the modules/speed control but the "open cargohold" in right click on your own ship while in space is suddenly MIA, can you guys fix this please? |
Mei ra'Zhault
Kimotoro Trading Company
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 21:32:00 -
[536] - Quote
Dirch Passer wrote:As a matter of fact, you can doubleclick on the ship on the hangar floor, and the cargohold opens. I kind of accidentally discovered this yesterday
EDIT: nvm. I misread unactive ships. Sorry.
For a brief moment I was confused but hopeful, then you crushed me |
Sum Olgy
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 21:35:00 -
[537] - Quote
Marisol Shimaya wrote:Marisol Shimaya wrote:What in the world is this
Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click
What is next Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click ect.... Do you think this is fun? I don't think so. So CCP you need to come up with something else an this Clicking make me dissy
You've never done PI, have you?
|
Dirch Passer
State War Academy Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 21:54:00 -
[538] - Quote
Mei ra'Zhault wrote:Dirch Passer wrote:As a matter of fact, you can doubleclick on the ship on the hangar floor, and the cargohold opens. I kind of accidentally discovered this yesterday
EDIT: nvm. I misread unactive ships. Sorry. For a brief moment I was confused but hopeful, then you crushed me
I apologize profusely! I promise read posts more carefully in the future. |
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 22:24:00 -
[539] - Quote
Marisol Shimaya wrote:What in the world is this
Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click
What is next Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click Click ect....
You forget the shortcuts between clicks. |
POS Trader
Merchants of Lore
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 22:48:00 -
[540] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:I can certainly agree that there are systems within EVE much more broken than the old inventory, but you have to weight in that inventory is something used by everyone, so it might make sense to start there and do, for example, the corp window later as it's only used by a portion of the players even though it's way more messed up.
Can you add an option in General settings,
[ ] - enable unified inventory
heck, have it checked by default. THen,
IF CHECKED: as is, current system with a massive tree of stuff tree lists all containers on grid
IF UNCHECKED: all containers that do not have parent containers, open in their own windows. Save window geometries and state settings. tree on left of the container only displays child containers and not sibling containers.
This would allow people that prefer many windows when moving stuff to have many windows while people that want a massive tree, they can have the massive tree.
Heck, you can even use this modified system to fix the problems with capital ship containers
The new inventory system works very nice when fitting drones, etc. But it is quite a headache for POS maintenance.
|
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Loose End
The Big Bambu
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 22:55:00 -
[541] - Quote
Even if the old system is unrecoverable...rebuild it. You have the technology. Faster. Stronger. The Six Million Dollar Mismanagement is not just a dream! |
Rock Kicker
Full Bore Inc Sobriety Test Failures
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 23:28:00 -
[542] - Quote
Sorry if this is repeating what other people have said. Frankly, I got tired of reading thru all the complaints so here's my list for the devs to compare to their worklist. If there was a 'to-do' list kept up to date by the Devs that we could see, it would make things ALOT easier.
If you want the TL;DR version, ROLLBACK (or at least rolled back functionality) is preferred. Otherwise read.
Repeat after me... 'DOUBLE-CLICK'.....
Here's my views about forcing everything into a tree...
Say I have 2 boxes sitting on my desk in 2 locations. If I want to see something in box #1, I open it. I don't first open a filing cabinet, drop the box in it, and then open the box. And if I want to move something from box #1 to box #2, I open each box, and grab the item and drop it in the other box. I don't first place both boxes in a filing cabinet, open box #1, grab the item, pull the drawer open more so I can see box #2 and drop the item on box #2 hoping it goes in the right spot (if I have it divided). Guess I could 'hover' over it and wait for it to open, but that closes box #1 and I may have needed to grab something else out of it....
Oh, and why oh why should I have my garage stored in my filing cabinet? Right now, I open the door to my garage, and jump in whatever car I wish to drive. I do not open my filing cabinet, find my garage, open it up, and then find the car I want to drive....
So, with that info in hand, the following suggestions would at least make the new inventory system tolerable to me. Note the use of 'tolerable'. Personal preference is a rollback, but Soundwave has indicated that is not going to happen.
Personally, I only want to see the tree if I click the main inventory button from the neocom. Otherwise I only want to see the inventory of the container I've DOUBLE-CLICKED on. Containers with divisions are more efficient and take less screen space if you go back to tabs instead of having a tree on the left.
Add a ship hangar button back to neocom when docked as well. It's a garage, not part of my inventory filing system.
Corp Hangar at station. It's not my hangar, it's the corps. Bring back the corp hangar button and have it open a UI just for the corp hangar. Don't put it all in my filing cabinet.
Tighten up the windows. Takes alot of screen real estate to show 3 items in my cargo.
EST Pricing should be OPTIONAL. It's not right anyhow, at least from what I've seen. Maybe have option to pick a main trade hub for it to use for pricing? That would be beneficial, especially when I go there to sell stuff. Also, make it an optional column for the inventory. Would be cool to dock up, and scroll thru my inventory to see what each item is worth. Right now I'd have to hover to get the tool tip.
The tooltip stuff gets in the way and is redundant on the qty. Option to turn off.
Having just visited my manufacturing/research pos, using a pos is still a train wreck. Not even shift-click lets me open arrays separately. Trying to drag materials between arrays using the tree is a mess. 'Hover open' is annoying as hell. Forces me to go back to the prior array and open it again, and reselect the tab i was working from if I need to grab something else. I wound up 'shift-clicking' my ship cargo several times to open up multiple trees, finding the array/division I wanted, and then << away the tree to save space. Alot of work just to get started, plus if I need to change divisions, >> the tree open, pick the new division, and << back. Annoying and Tedious.
All Right click menu shortcuts should come back.
Window persistence....
My $0.02. Maybe worth alot less to you. I don't care. To me, worth alot more, would make me actually want to play EvE again. Right now I don't.
|
Zac Solo
CANUCKIAN SALVAGE COMPANY
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 00:08:00 -
[543] - Quote
Dawnmist wrote:1 account went already and when this one expires tomorrow it is -2.
See you when inventory is fixed and nice reactivation offer with apology drops from the mailbox.
(And please do not delete this message again. It is not whining or against the forum rules in any way) -1 in 6 days and -2 in 12 more good job ccp |
Cloned S0ul
Blood Fanatics
85
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 00:14:00 -
[544] - Quote
Ok almost 500 posts, 80% of post are filed with ideas and reports about broken things etc, rest of them around 20% is about whine, rage ect includind some of my post btw im not drunk anymore, i think your UI is TOTALY broken not only some things acording to 500 post is totaly broken you need bring it back to test serwer, this wont end, i think is impossibe to fix whole new actualy UI with small patch. |
phoenix0269
Degrees of Freedom The Babylon Consortium
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 00:15:00 -
[545] - Quote
i think the new ui sucks
it takes forever to get in to the ship main hangar in th wh because everything else has to load too used to be able to switch ships in a couple seconds |
Chloe Celeste
Aerospace IronWorks
33
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 00:22:00 -
[546] - Quote
After Inferno 1.0.3, the Items and Ship Hangers are still not remembering their placements when there is a session change, for example, when I undock from a station and then re-dock at the same station without leaving the system.
I don't care about the reasoning why it is like this now or want to hear excuses..........just fix it.
Constructive Feedback
I find it difficult to work with the Unified Inventory windows and 100% completely and utterly hate it. With that said the solution that would make my life easier as nearly 5 years in playing this game, with actual money, is to have the Items Hanger and Ships Hanger, along with the Corporation Hangers, reappear when I dock at the station. The old inventory system did it so why wouldn't that be incorporated in the new inventory system?
If I could get an answer I would be highly impressed. |
Dennie Fleetfoot
EVE University Ivy League
183
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 00:29:00 -
[547] - Quote
Tried it after the patch.
Still sucks the sweat of a dead man's balls.
What is the point of shift-click? What was the thinking about it? Why did you guys get SUCH a hard on for it?
I mean virtually every other competent UI on the planet use's double click to open a new window. It's so ubiquitous now, it's whats causing you so much trouble with us unpaid beta testers. Windows, OSX, and all their predecessors use it. Hell, even my Amiga did that a quarter of a century ago. That's what were all so used to it now. It's second nature. So why did you decide that IBM, Microsoft, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs got it wrong with that one? I'm at a total loss to understand your thought processes on that one.
So I still have to use shift-click to open a window within the tree do I? I also have to press alt-c to open a new instance of the inventory. Again why? I mentioned it before on the test server feedback but as we are all now aware, you thoroughly read all that and actioned it all so maybe I'm wasting my time saying it again but here goes.
Why after three years of playing this game happily, easily, quickly and efficiently using just a mouse, do I now start needing to use the keyboard for anything other than logging in and using chat windows? Have you guys signed a new deal with Logitech or something?
Any user interface of any value has failed a fundamental law in its design if it can't be used purely with one form of user device, i.e. a mouse.
As an example. I have, like many of us here a small window showing the cargo hold of my active ship. its open all the time, in space and in station. It's there to check ammo levels and so on. But if I now click inventory on the neocom, that cargo hold window becomes the inventory in station. In order to open a separate instance of it I have to press alt-c. If I have to close it to do something else, say fit a ship with mission specific shield hardeners in my ships cargo hold, I close the fitting window down but then have to press alt-c again. It's counter-intuitive and goes against nearly three decades of GUI use on my part and I'm guessing many other player. Also opening a big Inventory window next to a non-scaleable fitting window on one screen is next to bloody impossible.
So why not double click the inventory icon on the neocom to open that new instance? Why can't it be done? Or even right click on the neocom icon and get a third option along with open and close. Open New Inventory Window perhaps?
Also, get rid of the ISK valuation. It's not even close to being accurate and it WILL be the biggest source of lag as the client downloads the info. The cargo hold volume indicator. Its too big. Reduce the size of it or change the design. Perhaps a red line, a few pixels high, replaced from left to right with blue as a percentage of the space being used up. Or simply in the top corner '37.5 m of 120 m used. Do I need a graphic to visualize that for me, when I can conjure in my own head what 82.5 m of remaining cargo space might look like. Anything that takes up valuable screen space, that isn't required to play the game, should be made a select-able option. Some of don't have a multiscreen set-up to play the game.
But it's main problem is still the one thing you seem to be incapable of understanding. You said yourself in that first dev blog. Players NEED to have multiple windows open to play the game so we've decided the answer is just one.
Read it out loud to yourselves. Read it out slowly.
WE need MULTIPLE WINDOWS to PLAY the game.
YOU decided we only needed ONE.
The result...?
You FORCED one window onto us, WE can NO LONGER PLAY the game.
Repeat that to each other as many times as it takes and eventually you'll see the problem. it's an oxymoron. A completely contradictory statement. It sounds just wrong and silly. |
Glarbl Blarbl
Orion-Glarbl Mining Bureau
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 00:45:00 -
[548] - Quote
I read too slowly to keep up with 25 pages worth... I got about 1/3rd of the way through and skipped ahead, apologies if this is repetitive.
When i stack the Ore, Main Hold, and Corp Hangars on the orca for a mining op the title of the tabs truncate so i only see the name of the ship, not the name of the hangar. Please use the other end of the hierarchy for truncation on the window title, or leave out the name of the ship and "(active ship)".
The tree text is really hard to read!! Why is it such a small font and grey? Should be bolded white, dammit! Though i guess that would mean more scrolling, which is already way out of hand. Sigh.
--
Thanks for making the active ship cargo window more persistant. Now we just need the same for corp hangars and deliveries, and a static button like we used to have for both.
I have to say these changes would have made way more sense if they had been applied to the assets view while maintaining its current functionality.
Having a lot of windows open when you're docked is not a bad thing, this philosophy needs to be put to rest that fewer windows is always better. None of us use CQ so we're not missing anything visually by doing so. Anyway, who wants to watch an avatar walking around a little room when you could be playing EVE? |
Jacqueline Nought
Constantly Causing Problems Everyone Enjoys
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 01:26:00 -
[549] - Quote
I'm probably in the vast minority in saying this, and I'l probably receive walls of flames, but here goes. I love the new unified inventory. Before inferno, I'd stack all my inventory windows. I knew what was open by the tab names.
I've heard a lot about opening your ship cargo, dragging between them, whatever. I don't understand the problem here. You don't need to open it. It's already open. That's what the tree view is for. Everything there is already open. In the same way I used to drag everything to the tabs to move it between containers, now I just drag to the name on the tree view.
I now don't have to open up all my containers and cargo holds to them stack them and start dragging, they're all just there in the tree view ready for me. So far the new unified inventory has saved me loads of time. in loading up ships, looting, salvaging. It just makes everything easier and a hell of a lot less cluttered.
Thank you CCP =] |
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
63
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 02:38:00 -
[550] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:This is a very good point. Now I can't promise that we'll get around to it right now, as there is plenty of other stuff that's higher in priority atm, but I'll note this down for sure. Tyberius Franklin wrote:Sarmatiko wrote:Quote:Looting: Cargo containers and wrecks will function the same. Having multiple wrecks or containers open should be easy to loot as you can just click GÇ£loot allGÇ¥ and it will automatically go to the next item on the list instead of your ships cargohold. There is an added performance increase as well. Great. Now, can we have shortcut for "Open Container"? It's been 1.5 years since new shortcuts were introduced.. I was actually surprised to find there wasn't one. Can we please have this oversight fixed in the near future? Would be greatly appreciated.
Uhmm... maybe I'm not following, but isn't double clicking shortcut to open container? Unless you guys broke it in the last patch it was working fine before/after Inferno. |
|
Sunrise Omega
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 03:05:00 -
[551] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:You can fix this yourself through the system menu / shortcuts tab. Just rebind ALT+C to "Open cargo of active ship" instead of "Open Inventory". Sanya Mazepa wrote:ALT + C inside station should open your cargo, instead it opens the unified invenotry window with whatever you were looking at last... this is not how it should be. Please fix asap!
Overall a nice addition to eve once all the kinks are ironed out. +1
The default should never have been changed. You should have added a new short-cut for the Unified Inventory window, or just stuck it on the Neocom without a short-cut key and left our existing shortcuts alone.
|
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
756
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 03:09:00 -
[552] - Quote
I really to hope you'll watch this CCP_Optimal. I put a good amount of work into it, and I've never recorded my voice before for anything.
Just something I put together for more effective feedback. I hope you find it useful. http://youtu.be/HcG5Ha5wAFY Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
91
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 03:36:00 -
[553] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:I really to hope you'll watch this CCP_Optimal. I put a good amount of work into it, and I've never recorded my voice before for anything. Just something I put together for more effective feedback. I hope you find it useful. http://youtu.be/HcG5Ha5wAFY
Im sure you put a lot of work into it . A for effort :)
and hopefully it will aid in getting the point across. |
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 04:03:00 -
[554] - Quote
TLDR; the whole thread, but I'll toss in my 0.02 ISK anyway.
I think you basically took a pretty good idea, and managed to turn it into a bad idea by how you integrated it.
Cargoholds are important to people operating in space. I really can't stand having my carefully placed cargohold window usurpepd by some container or hanger I'm opening.
Having to shift-click all the time is horrible, the defaults are horrible. As it is integrated, it basically displaces everything that was good about the old system, without actually replacing those use cases. If you'd just *added* it without displacing it, everything would be cool. If all the old buttons, clicks, etc. opened exactly what they opened before, with the tree collapsed, everybody would have applauded the new feature.
I'm pretty optimistic that we'll have something nice once you straighten it out.
But don't you think you really need to address the process issue, that led you to screw up this way? It's not like it wasn't testable, and it's not like it's not the first time.
Still, kudos on the response. That appears to be working. I hope you don't break things in the process, but perfect and refine that bit of process, and keep it.
Just try not to need it too often for anything too serious again.
|
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 04:12:00 -
[555] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:I really to hope you'll watch this CCP_Optimal. I put a good amount of work into it, and I've never recorded my voice before for anything. Just something I put together for more effective feedback. I hope you find it useful. http://youtu.be/HcG5Ha5wAFY
Sheer genius!
Not half so much for accurately capturing what's needed, as leveraging Windows 7 to make such a powerful demonstration.
The use of Windows 7 as a metaphor even makes a very strong case for WHY this is what's needed. Not just the familiarity factor (although that's real), but because Windows 7's functionality has evolved from a long history of experience with similar needs.
It's also worth noting that very similar functionality is found in MacOS and various Linux file managers. |
Alli Othman
Fweddit
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 04:33:00 -
[556] - Quote
I miss being able to drag things from a ship's hangar to ANY division of my personal hangar and have it actually go- and separate into the proper hangar as necessary. So if I was dragging a couple ships and a bunch of mods from an orca to my personal hangar the mods would go into the Items section and the ships would go into the ship hangar. Now I have to manually de-select the ships and specifically drag all modules/items to the Item division, and I have to specifically drag the ships to the ship hangar.
That's more clicks for the same job and is pretty annoying that the old functionality has been taken away. It makes multi-hangared ships a lot more difficult.
Another problem is opening anything in space results in the entire big inventory. This is pretty distracting and really doesn't make much sense. A scaled down version would be more than welcome.
The amount of work to do old functions needs to be re-evaluated and adjusted, and old functionality needs to be returned otherwise the new inventory is just cumbersome. |
Disdaine
349
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 04:50:00 -
[557] - Quote
ISK Value is absolutely useless. Please make it optional so I can reclaim some screen real estate.
Think I might go and put up a bunch of items at a couple of billion isk each. |
Cold Ethyl
Eskimo Pie Corp
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 04:59:00 -
[558] - Quote
Citrute wrote:How about you put the old inventory system back while you make these weekly changes. I'll just be over here, playing not eve until this mess is sorted. Jonuts wrote:Quote: We did not ignore feedback at all. In some cases we didn't agree. In some cases we did agree and made changes. In some cases we felt that players weren't even giving the new proposed way of doing things a chance and that it might just be a matter of getting used to. It's certain that we didn't get everything right the first time around. That's why we have iteration.
You're right. It's totally our fault. We're all too ******* stupid to tell the difference between "This is different" and "This is garbage". I apologize. I didn't mean to offend your superior sensibilities. How dare us lowly people who actually have to USE this system criticize it. quoting for truth
This may be many pages past, but SO worth re-quoting FOR THE TRUTH!!! I, and all my friends must also be "...too F***ing stupid to tell the difference between "This is different" and "This is garbage" "
Please CCP, tell me what crap paper I should wipe with, and what color my car should be, and what the hell, should I go to work tomorrow? I'm obviously just too F-ing stupid to figure it out myself. I mistakenly assumed this should be enjoyable AND usable. Tell me what to do, when to do it and for how long, and anything else I don't have the brain power to accomplish without your oh-so-much-more evolved wisdom. Perhaps I shouldn't have said all this. Who knows? I am not qualified to make that judgement. |
Cold Ethyl
Eskimo Pie Corp
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 05:15:00 -
[559] - Quote
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:CCP Optimal wrote:I've not been able to be very active on the forums for the last couple of days simple because my time is better spent fixing defects as it is.
First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers. We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly.
Revamping a fundamental system, used by every single player, such as the inventory system so that it will fit every player's needs and expectations from day one is a tall order to say the least. There is probably no other system within EVE that is as multidimensional as the inventory and the use cases seem to be endless. The old system had not changed much at all and most of you veterans could probably operate it at lightning speeds blindfolded. Having to waste time re-learning basic things is annoying as hell and I get it. I've been there myself. I would be pretty furious if someone forced me to use a different Python editor, and it would probably slow me down tremendously for the first couple of days or even weeks. A fitting punishment for my crimes maybe?
THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. We identified the inventory as being one of the biggest violator and that's why we went on this journey (not because we like to spend Sunday afternoons on the EVE forums, lovely as they are, mind you!). A lot of things have changed in the world of user interfaces during the last 10 years, and I think it's safe to say that a game shipping with the old EVE inventory system EVE today would receive mixed reviews.
The old system had been brewing out in the wild for 9 years, but the new one for less than a week, so obviously it has not received the same amount of updates and fixes. We are, and will be working hard to make sure that no matter your profession in EVE, you will have an equally or faster way of doing what you need to do.
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Making it optional is also not optional (confusingly enough) as it would require us to maintain two systems side by side which would cause an exponential increase in code and interface complexity if we were to make a habit of it. It's not as simple or as good of an idea as it might seem at first.
One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it. When we do, people without exceptions ask for the old one back. Doing both is obviously impossible. There is still work to be done and work we shall. Words fail me. I'm honestly at a complete loss at what to say in reply to this. I was expecting a reasoned rational for the changes, instead we get another 'I'm right and your wrong' from one of the dynamic duo. Firstly I want numbers boy. The biggest complaint was the number of windows at anytime? I've played this game for three years and been socially active on the forums, traveled to Fanfest and London meets and I have never, EVER heard anyone make this complaint. So if your're going to use that as an excuse for your poor performance I want the numbers of complaints about the UI, the number of the complaints about the numbers of windows and I want them as a percentage of the total number of complaints about EVE. It that percentage is less than 30 percent, all that should tell anyone with an intelligence greater than a used teabag is that 70 percent of people were happy with the old UI and it should be low on your list of priorities. Your claiming that feedback and suggestions were acted upon in Sisi? Sorry I was there, and that frankly is a bare faced lie. If you had truely listened, acted and followed through the proof of that would be that your precious Unifubared Inventory would still be on Sisi getting debugged. So your either lying or so far removed from reality that I'd worry about giving you a pair of scissors. Your begging us to give it a try???!!!! What in the hell do you think we've doing for 5 weeks???!!!!!! This amount of rage about your deeply, deeply flawed concept doesn't come from people who don't like change it's coming from people who have tried this muddled mess and guess what? WE DON'T LIKE IT!! Hate it in fact. No amount of trying it is going to alter that fact. The game is virtually unplayable using it. Or perhaps I should say virtually unplayable and still enjoy it. I'm not going to tell how to fix it. If you haven't figured out how to from all we've said here, the Sisi forums and the complaints then you shouldn't be working in this job. You are still living this dream world, where if you build it they will come Optimal. After everything that has been pointed out about the failings of this misguided adventure, you're still defending your Unifubared Inventory like a petulant 5 year old. Now allow to Soundwave to continue to try and fix the mess you and Arrow made. We prefer talking to grown-up here.
THIS IS THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH!!! |
49125
Haemus Frigidus
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 05:20:00 -
[560] - Quote
CCPO "If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why."
Because you changed a functional system to a non functional, laggy as hell one. step 1: *click* scroll* scroll* shiftclick* click* drag* click* shiftclick* scroll *scroll *scroll *click *shiftclick* click* scroll* scroll* shiftclick* click* drag* click* shiftclick* scroll* scroll* scroll* click* shiftclick* click* scroll* scroll* shiftclick *click *drag* click* shiftclick* step 3: profit |
|
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
168
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 05:25:00 -
[561] - Quote
few things that are broken:
- not persistent filters - when i type "scourge" in text box above inventory to see my missiles and than change container (change division of hangar for example) filter resets itself - filter not working when you are too fast - when opening inventory while the "loading" indicators are still rotating i type Tengu to get into my ship (assuming i just opened SMA), but when loading end not only my filter RESETS (text box cleared) but also filter STOPS WORKING (typing does not filter anything) - open inventory in stations CANT BE CTR+CLICKED - cant open multiple windows easly (i have to ctr+click in that horrible tree view) - when CTR+CLICK to get my corporate hangar opened in separate window i cant change division tabs unless i open full interface
Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
disasteur
Tellcomtec Incorporated. Preatoriani
126
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 05:38:00 -
[562] - Quote
so where is the promise to restore as much as possible?
i logged in today and its still the same crap and your responses only show your fixing instead of restoring |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
759
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 05:48:00 -
[563] - Quote
ZaBob wrote:MotherMoon wrote:I really to hope you'll watch this CCP_Optimal. I put a good amount of work into it, and I've never recorded my voice before for anything. Just something I put together for more effective feedback. I hope you find it useful. http://youtu.be/HcG5Ha5wAFY Sheer genius! Not half so much for accurately capturing what's needed, as leveraging Windows 7 to make such a powerful demonstration. The use of Windows 7 as a metaphor even makes a very strong case for WHY this is what's needed. Not just the familiarity factor (although that's real), but because Windows 7's functionality has evolved from a long history of experience with similar needs. It's also worth noting that very similar functionality is found in MacOS and various Linux file managers.
Thanks mate : D Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
311
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 05:51:00 -
[564] - Quote
Double clicking sometimg should always open a new separate window, such as a wreck, can or your ship in the hangar... this is useful for when you want to move items....
Also, last I checked, you couldn't double click your ship anymore to open cargo |
Avraham Avinu
Children of Noah
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 05:53:00 -
[565] - Quote
This is a great example of how the dev team should interact with the community on things that matter to us. Understanding the problem, iterating on the solution and being honest. |
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 05:54:00 -
[566] - Quote
Couple of ideas:
- add a "BACK" button (ala web browser) to jump back to the previously visited "folder" in the tree view. - add a bar with some standard buttons (hangar, active ship cargohold , active ship drone bay, etc.) and grey them out when not applicable. This will ease the pain of visiting the most common places over and over again. |
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
85
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 05:55:00 -
[567] - Quote
Because of work, it's taken me until now to play a bit with the new patch and, for my game, not much has changed. I noticed a slight speed increase in populating windows - but even in a station with only 15 or so ships I had to painstakingly watch each one populate from a blank thumbnail to a ship icon one. at. a. time.
I don't even know what to say anymore.
The forums are so filled with rage that if I was a dev, I wouldn't even know what to make of all that except that people are genuinely unhappy - this guy included. I see new posters saying they like the UI without any clue why that is and other new faces offering nothing but "get used to it" and "what's your problem" posts. None of which were particularly helpful or enlightening.
Switching ships still requires scrolling, equipping ships still requires scrolling - I'm so tired of squinting and scrolling. I only had time to mission and salvage - and to that end, really nothing's changed. Unless you're happy "looting all" your workflow is still increased. Keyboard shortcuts aren't usually part of my playstyle and I've never "looted all." I've always been selective about what I take and leave in wrecks. It's just not even an option anymore. Take it all or navigate the tree.
Did I mention how much I despise that tree yet today? No? Well let me state it again. Having all hangars and bays represented as file divisions on a windows-like tree in no way enhances "my" EVE experience. It turns what used to be parts of the station and unique, separate locations into file representations on an operating system. Files on a tree. That's it. And I hate that. I wish I had never seen the tree and I wish I could go without seeing it ever again.
It should be minimized by default.
Restore one-click functionality from static buttons on the neocom for the station hangar, ship hangar, and corp hangar - and have them all open in new windows.
Have wrecks and cans open in new windows.
Make these windows persistent between sessions.
And restore the lost right-click functionality for drone bays, fuel bays etc.
(Just make opening source and desination one-click operations again to re-enable the multi-windowed drag and drop playstyle so many are asking to see returned to the game.)
For a great many players, one window will not suffice. I happily agree that the new UI is technically superior to the old interface, but it is not more efficient, and it is currently incompatible with a huge swath of preexisting playstyles. It was based on a false premise. Less, in this case, is clearly not more. Players still want, need, and are using the same multi-windowed configurations they employed before, except now you've given them an interface specifically designed to make this task more difficult. Restoring neocom buttons and right click functionality would give players options.
For my part, rage is quickly being replaced by apathy. I'm still here but I'm not sure how many weeks I can wait around for patches hoping that the next one might be helpful. I love this game. It is a beautiful immersive feat of programming and it's something all of CCP should be proud of. But at the moment, like some darling tart alluded to in another thread, it's like a stick in the a**. And not only did CCP insert said stick, but instead of removing it, we're told to wait and get comfortable while the stick is adjusted, to get used to the stick, or to quit complaining about the stick being there.
None of which are really great choices.
Maybe tomorrow I'll be more enthused to play clickageddon and maybe then I'll mind the stick less, but tonight it's definately got me down.
Yonis Kador |
Ytamii Arval
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 05:55:00 -
[568] - Quote
It is difficult to give 'constructive feedback' about something so utterly painful to use that it feels like it's breaking the game. And it gets worse each day that I 'just give it a chance.' Today, I'm mining--in between spates of screaming obscenities at my monitor. And mining is a pleasure compared to looting. And looting is a pleasure compared to fitting. Worse each day.
I detailed my criticisms weeks ago on the test forum, and won't repeat what you chose to ignore. No, I can't imagine any adequate fix other than creating a carbon copy of the previous UI. Consider that my constructive feedback: what I need is precisely the functionality which was removed. BTW, the Tuesday fixes that were supposed to speed it up made it greatly slower.
You want more detailed critique to ignore? Here ya go: I cannot check the filter checkboxes, I mean the ones like Ammunition, Ore and Materials. I click on the box and nothing happens; click again, nothing happens, etc. In order to check a box, I first have to close and then re-open the entire filter panel, then check a box, and a checkmark finally shows up, the green light comes on...and nothing else happens. There's no change in what's displayed in either the tree or the current container. Honestly, I've no idea what those filters are supposed to do, but I assume they're supposed to do something.
But, ignore that because I've no desire to use filters. The old UI didn't need that, and any UI that does I will always consider more pain than it's worth. Same goes for keyboard shortcuts. Sad to hear we can't get the old, functional UI back. But no problem; I'll just stop paying for my account until we have a UI with the old functionality duplicated. |
General Freight
GIRLFRIEND SURF TEAM
37
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 05:58:00 -
[569] - Quote
Hey guys, seriously, thank you for listening about the lag to open and the looting thing. Much better. These were my issues because they are the ones that most affected me. Well, that and the POS thing, but I've read what you're planning and I like it.
If this will really get rid of botters and scripters, I will put up with a lot. |
Dennie Fleetfoot
EVE University Ivy League
188
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 06:27:00 -
[570] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:I really to hope you'll watch this CCP_Optimal. I put a good amount of work into it, and I've never recorded my voice before for anything. Just something I put together for more effective feedback. I hope you find it useful. http://youtu.be/HcG5Ha5wAFY
This guy pretty much got it bang on. Listen to him CCP. He knows what he's talking about. |
|
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
156
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 06:30:00 -
[571] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:You can fix this yourself through the system menu / shortcuts tab. Just rebind ALT+C to "Open cargo of active ship" instead of "Open Inventory". Sanya Mazepa wrote:ALT + C inside station should open your cargo, instead it opens the unified invenotry window with whatever you were looking at last... this is not how it should be. Please fix asap!
Overall a nice addition to eve once all the kinks are ironed out. +1
We donGÇÖt want to fix it ourselves, we want YOU to fix it, seeing as you broke it in the first place.
Another shortcut is not the answer. Double-clicking on your hanger screen is the answer. Just do it FFS.
|
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
760
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 06:31:00 -
[572] - Quote
Quote:Today, I'm mining--in between spates of screaming obscenities at my monitor.
jezz man it's just a video game. I don't think I've ever yelled at a video game in my life. not that your frustration is unwarrentled mind you, just, yeah dude, give it a stupid look and play something else while they fix this up. Not wroth getting so upset over you start swearing at it, it can't hear you. Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
156
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 06:35:00 -
[573] - Quote
Zac Solo wrote:Dawnmist wrote:1 account went already and when this one expires tomorrow it is -2.
See you when inventory is fixed and nice reactivation offer with apology drops from the mailbox.
(And please do not delete this message again. It is not whining or against the forum rules in any way) -1 in 6 days and -2 in 12 more good job ccp
-2 in 2 days, another -3 in 10 days.
Bye bye |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
156
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 06:49:00 -
[574] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Selas Rega wrote:why dont deal with it tomorrow and remove the UI until you did it well and it works like the old one? did you fire your quality managment? Removing the UI would be a great deal more complex and time consuming than just making it better than the old one. This isn't something that can easily be detached.
Well, itGÇÖs been a week since the patch, and another 4 since this crap hit SISI, and we have got virtually nowhere. At this rate it will take a couple of months to get it anywhere useable.
So, it will probably NOT take longer to get the original UI back.
Suck it up, accept that you have screwed up BIG time, and just revert. It will do your credibility a power of good, as at the moment you have exactly ZERO.
|
Enzaki
Phantom Squad Nulli Secunda
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 07:00:00 -
[575] - Quote
Loose End wrote:Spanking Monkeys wrote:WolfSchwarzMond wrote:CCP Optimal wrote: I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, l.
Ok I've tried and tried to figure out a way to use this thing as well as the old one...It cannot be done. Here is why. Opening multiple cans/wrecks lags the entire game. For mission looting this makes the game almost unplayable. For Jetcan Miners like me it causes us to lose cycles which is lost isk. The loading time on the windows is just unacceptable. 0.5-2mins to load your own hold if your're in a POS. 3mins to load a Ship Maintence array. Opening all the holds on a Rorqual or an Orca now takes twice as many clicks as it did and you have to play with the little tree. Opening Corp hangers where you can read them requires a window that is so very large, you can't really do anything else. Opening Corp hanger with Security Roles and a Large Corp will almost if not totally crash Eve. The little graph that indicates cargo hold seems to generate lag. The new window header and footer makes the amount of room to see Items even smaller then the old way did making you blow the window up bigger resulting in less room to work mutiple windows. This is a major issue when working a Rorqual/Orca It does not remember window locations/size when you dock/undock If you misclick and don't press shift you have to start all over. Try picking No Back Button. The Filters tree? menu? won't stay down. When you remove Items from your cargo hold into the Item hanger using only 1 window, it auto sorts them forcing you to search for the new items. Think of having to haul in some mods for a new ship fitting, Before you could justdrop them in the Item hanger get in new ship fit the mods cause they were at the bottom of the items. Now drop them in, get in new ship and SEARCH for mods they're not at the bottom like they were they're sorted in with everything else..... The search function on the new UI RESETS every time you change Hangers/hold this makes locating a specific item a pain. Moving large amounts of items generates Lag or results in some Items not being moved. It is now stupidly easy to drop something in the wrong location.....forcing you to go look for it. Previously if you had Tab 2 in your Orca Corp hanger opened and then opened POS Corp Hanger or SAA Tab 2 would open by default. Now it just opens the 1st tab. The loot all button does NOT stack ore in the holds nor does it give you the option to take just as much ore as will fit in your hold it's all or nothing. EVERYTHING to do with dealing with items now takes LONGER and is harder to do. This system IMHO is a step BACKWARD in that it is not simple to operate. You are forcing us for some reason I cannot fathom to use a system that is inherently more difficult to operate then the old one. This is not a "get used to it issue" This system is not as intelligent as the old one. A great number of your CUSTOMERS, are upset about your product. You need to be willing to accept that while someone thought this was the way to go, your CUSTOMERS, the people you work for, the people who PAY you for your product DO NOT LIKE IT. Do us all a favor. Admit the mistake and correct it This CCP Optimal wrote: and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Is IMHO the wrong thing to say. Most people will read it as "this is what you will now use. Get used to it." Also CCP made it, CCP can UNMAKE IT so it is not technically impossible. Saying that is lying to your customers. It may be difficult and you don't want to do it, that doesn't mean you cannot do it. I'll leave you with this Quote "The greatest lesson for me is the realization that EVE belongs to you, and we at CCP are just the hosts of your experience." -Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson, CEO You are failing as hosts at this time. this needs to be said until you at CCP take it on board. you have broken your product, no amount of time or use will take away from the fact that a reduction in functionality is not acceptible. the system is broken as a concept. 'you need multiple windows so we give you one..' that the hell were you smoking when you came up with this? why didnt you wait to roll this on to tq, when all the feed back said it wasnt ready? Here Here! Bravo!
+1 that is so true |
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
28
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 07:04:00 -
[576] - Quote
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:Tried it after the patch.
Still sucks the sweat of a dead man's balls.
What is the point of shift-click? ....
Just as i said. The new UI aka. treenightmare, dont working without old function. That's why need to open new windows with shift+click. The all new UI tree concept it's a fail. A cargo container,wreck,shipbay,ship cargobay,backpack,pouch,bag not have folders. These things not files for filemanager. These thing needs separated windows, but not need filemanager with treepanel.
|
BlackTalon
BlackTalon Mining Corp
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 07:12:00 -
[577] - Quote
Well ccp seem your gone an bit deaf been watching these post for an week 90% want old system back but your still trying to fix an broken ui.jesus listen to the people who pay to play we want the old system back its more user friendly then this new ui .i cant believe you didnt listen to the feed back from test server as some post say they said there where big problems with this ui .thou the last patch helped an bit its still an bloody crappy ui i want to be able to move stuff around fast from my item,s to corp hangers to diff containers the old system was best for this i hate to see an long tree to scroll threw drop down its uness i knew where every think was before didnt need an silly tree to drop down every time.Please listen to us this new ui is no good what so ever i vote to roll back to old system any who agress spread the word and post herewe want old ui back |
Lexxxii
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 07:16:00 -
[578] - Quote
IGÇÖll post this again, and will keep posting it until you do something useful.....
A lot of the issues over the new inventory system are really quite simple to fix. You just need to get your heads out of your ass and LISTEN.
1. Bring back the clickable buttons that just open a single hanger (Ships, Items, Corp Hanger). Make these windows remember size and position, and reinstate the tabs on the Corp hanger. Make the tree view hidden by default.
2. Reinstate the important right-click shortcuts.... Open fuel bay, drone bay, ships hanger, ore hold, ship maintenance bay, Corp hanger. Again, make these windows remember size and position, and reinstate the tabs on the Corp hanger. It REALLY REALLY is not a bad thing to have important stuff in the right-click menu when it improves functionality. Like others have said, remove some of the redundant ones instead, like undock etc.
3. Double clicking in your main hanger should open your cargo ONLY. Not the whole inventory, thatGÇÖs what the button on the Neocom is for. Make this window remember size and position and make the tree view hidden by default. Same applies when clicking the cargo icon while in space.
4. Open a wreck in a new window. Make this window remember size and position. Keep the loot all button.
5. Give an option to hide the ISK value from the inventory windows, it is not something that we would use all the time, it just takes up space. It can be un-hidden when needed.
6. Reduce the size of the volume bar at the top of the window. Again, it just takes up space, revert to the previous thinner bar.
I cannot believe that this stuff would be difficult to implement, and it would go a long way to reducing the rage most people are feeling at the moment.
|
Loose End
The Big Bambu
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 07:50:00 -
[579] - Quote
Even Windows Internet Explorer has enough sense to use tabs instead of a tree. How about a Unified where you add or remove tabs like your Neocom does? Or be able to customize which set of tabs you want to see from your Neocom. One for the POS. One for hangar. One for Corp Hangar. Etc ad nauseum. Scrap your screwup. Admit you've misunderstood the needs of the players. Move on and make a name for yourself. Fix what you've broken. |
Zebs Clone
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 07:50:00 -
[580] - Quote
so 4 or is it 5 posts now, most with 30 plus pages of negative feed back and requests to get either the old UI back, or ALL of its functonality restored and where are we??
CCP say we have to get used to it. give it a try, its good, its not the UI that is wrong its you the customer.
LOL this really does make me want to give up on the best part of 7 years in this game. its not only to do with this crappy UI, its to do with your total disrespect for all the feed back your paying customers have and are giving you for months.
its pretty simple at the end of the day, most people will not be happy until your restore the functionality you have taken away.
|
|
Ytamii Arval
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 07:56:00 -
[581] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote: I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why.
Okay, here's why I can't fit ships with the new UI:
1. my monitor's screen is 41mm across; resolution is the default 1366x768.
2. when fitting, I need to have the expanded fitting window on screen, which is 27mm across.
3. I need to move modules and ammo in and out of three different containers. Each of the three needs to have a different view than the others; specifically, one is Icon, one is Detail, the third is LIst. Has to be this way. So, I'm forced to constantly click the view selection icons, as well as stopping to find and click the next container I need. Used to just have all three open all the time, but the windows cannot be made small enough to do that at a useable size anymore (see number 5 for size details).
4. with the new UI, the minimum useable screen width for each of those three windows is 25mm across.
5. there you have it: at this screen resolution, I need a screen 25mm+27mm across which totals 52mm. The physical screen is only 41mm across. It's the tree portion of the window which necessitates it being so wide. For client stability, I'm forced to run windowed, so there's not enough space to fit the tree/container window under the fitting window either.
6. the tree/container design simply doesn't fit. As I said previously, I need the UI to duplicate the functionality of the old UI. In this case, I need to have no tree in any window, and I need the windows to not have the space wasting (and bogus) estimated price line or the meaningless item count, and I need them to never forget their pinned position and size and view (the single worst thing about the new UI is that windows spawn with the most recently used view instead of the most recent for that particular window). Or to put it simply, I need it to work exactly like the old UI.
7. no point in listing all the issues in mining and looting, because the needed fixes are the same as what I just said. |
Makaganti
University of Caille Gallente Federation
48
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 08:06:00 -
[582] - Quote
Good People of eve ccp need to be punished ccp need to know this is our game we pay an therefore we own eve
Please people of eve boycott eve for 23hrs show ccp they can't ignore us, help to train ccp how to listen
I'm proposing 1st June eve time turn off eve go spend quality time with your wife/husband, your girlfriend/boyfriend family friends if you have none of this then go out side or watch tv do anything or rob the local 7/11
Its time for action ladies and gentlemen
With unity there is power With Unity there is Power |
BlackTalon
BlackTalon Mining Corp
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 08:06:00 -
[583] - Quote
eve channel ui action |
Andy DelGardo
Hedion University Amarr Empire
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 08:19:00 -
[584] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:I really to hope you'll watch this CCP_Optimal. I put a good amount of work into it, and I've never recorded my voice before for anything. Just something I put together for more effective feedback. I hope you find it useful. http://youtu.be/HcG5Ha5wAFY
+1 |
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices Silent Infinity
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 08:43:00 -
[585] - Quote
Could you please group the POS modules by something? it's still kinda chatoic to find anything at a POS, rapidly. Currently my corp feels like reverted back to the 90s, naming everything like !CHA, !SMA, !Silo, etc, to have them at the top of the list, avoiding searching through gazillions of small and medium guns, which appear all the way, as noise. Last time we had to use such a thing was the msdos times :)
Also, it'd be very nice to be able to reorder the opened cans. Pre-thisstuff we could do this with those tabs.
Next to this, the tree panel still jumps around when i'm moving items from one anything to another.
I still can't find a place to set up the default colums to display, and the default type of display (icons, list view, etc).
The upper-right filter input box resets whenever i change divisions or whatever. Previously I could check all corp hangars for the same filter text, just by clicking through the tabs, now the filter text has to be entered every single time, which is quite annoying.
The treepanel is still automaticly resizing when i resize an inventory window, which is also annoying. I'm not resizing the whole window to see more of the index panel, but to see more of the items themselves.
It would also be good to be able to have (or be able to make) the "open" icon in the "selected item" window to open always in a separate window. I don't know everyones preference, but in 90% of the cases we're using it that way.
|
Seismic Stan
112
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 08:49:00 -
[586] - Quote
Having spoken to a number of players who I consider to be representative of the silent majority, I'm concerned about the impact of this current strategy of releasing a buggy/functionally poor feature that impacts everyone, then iterating on it gradually.
These silent players are the ones who don't visit the forums, they have no interest in reading devblogs, they don't read the website or fansites and they ignore in-game banners and news. I am often stunned by their ignorance of all matters EVE, but each to their own. They just want to log in and play their game. I suspect these uninformed masses far outnumber any of us who are taking the time to post/comment/rant in view of CCP employees.
The feedback I got from them was one of accepting apathy. They weren't particularly impressed with the Unified Inventory and they found it to be a chore, but they were working around it. No fuss, no complaining - they were just trying to carry on with their chosen game experience despite this new barrier.
This worries me - by making rolling iterations to a flawed release, CCP are taking the gamble of relying on this type of "herd" player to keep playing and keep paying. Any subtle improvements introduced gradually will likely pass them by because they are not particularly well-informed. They will either quietly adapt to the new system as initially released or they will just as quietly disappear and find a new gaming environment.
I suppose the only way to watch out for an exodus of these grazing players is to watch the PCU numbers, but this seems like a dangerous gamble. Freebooted - Tech4 News - Incarna: The Text Adventure - Guild Launch EVE Correspondent |
Daedra Blue
Atomic Biohazard
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 08:56:00 -
[587] - Quote
Hello CCP, i would like to make people aware of a coding problem in the Unified Inventory.
The TreeView and the Content parts of the window can be activated by clicking on them, so if you click on the TreeView it gets activated and you can manipulate it but after you click the content window the TreeView gets deactivated and you can no longer manipulated it until you reclick on it.
The problem with this behaviour is when you try to drag stuff from the content window to a container that is outside the TreeView and requires scroling, since you can't click while dragging as that would drop the contents you drag its renders you impossible to move the objects.
Please change the mechanic so that the parts of the window activate on hover and not on clicking. This would let us activate the TreeView to Enable Scrolling without the need to drop the items we are dragging.
Thank You! |
Disdaine
352
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 09:20:00 -
[588] - Quote
Radar sites.
Attempt to open a guarded can, displays can is being guarded message then open your inventory window with ships cargo.
Open a can, resize window, minimize tree, perfect (well nearly, would love to hide the useless isk value, and filter bars). This is now the window settings for your ships cargo.
I hate this unified inventory so much, couldn't even get the resizing tree / items section right. Resizing by dragging the right border to the right should adjust the items section so you can see more items, then you have to go back and resize your now larger tree panel. Basic stuff guys. |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
162
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 10:04:00 -
[589] - Quote
Cruachan Argylle wrote:
Hilmar, with every passing day, this is making you look like a liar. We read your last missive, maybe your staff didn't.
This
Everyone ask him about this on Twitter: @HilmarVeigar
|
disasteur
Tellcomtec Incorporated. Preatoriani
127
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 10:21:00 -
[590] - Quote
Quote: We have been listening carefully to the feedback we have been hearing from the community and as a result, the team is working towards another deployment this Friday the 1st of June.
you are doing a lot but clearly listening isnt part of it, im sorry |
|
Ponder Yonder
Fleet of the Damned Ace of Spades.
19
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 10:39:00 -
[591] - Quote
disasteur wrote:Quote: We have been listening carefully to the feedback we have been hearing from the community and as a result, the team is working towards another deployment this Friday the 1st of June.
you are doing a lot but clearly listening isnt part of it, im sorry
I disagree. A lot of posts on this thread and others have asked for persistent windows. CCP is delivering this on Friday. A lot of posts have asked for a mouse-only way of creating new windows, instead of shift-click. CCP is delivering this on Friday. Ditto for shortcuts, POS trees, etc.
Yes, we are not getting the moon on a stick, but they are listening and they are moving in the right direction.
There are many vocal bitchers and whiners who seem to think that CCP will somehow 'roll it all back' if they just ***** enough. They will be disappointed. This is EVE - adapt or GTFO.
- Ponder |
disasteur
Tellcomtec Incorporated. Preatoriani
127
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 11:04:00 -
[592] - Quote
Ponder Yonder wrote:disasteur wrote:Quote: We have been listening carefully to the feedback we have been hearing from the community and as a result, the team is working towards another deployment this Friday the 1st of June.
you are doing a lot but clearly listening isnt part of it, im sorry I disagree. A lot of posts on this thread and others have asked for persistent windows. CCP is delivering this on Friday. A lot of posts have asked for a mouse-only way of creating new windows, instead of shift-click. CCP is delivering this on Friday. Ditto for shortcuts, POS trees, etc. Yes, we are not getting the moon on a stick, but they are listening and they are moving in the right direction. There are many vocal bitchers and whiners who seem to think that CCP will somehow 'roll it all back' if they just ***** enough. They will be disappointed. This is EVE - adapt or GTFO. - Ponder
its your right to disagree, same as it is my right to complain and being a whiner as you put so delicately, i tell you why.... they willingly put all the complaints in the test-forums aside, kept the positive reactions and mixed it up with there own view.
i know i wont get a roll-back, anyone believing that can just stop complaining, but i for one hope that all these posts finally makes it clear to CCP that they have to start listening
i am also aware of the EULA etc, game play may chance during blah blah blah etc etc, but as a player who uses the UI in every known way this is a hell! that should not have been released. |
Ponder Yonder
Fleet of the Damned Ace of Spades.
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 12:07:00 -
[593] - Quote
disasteur wrote:Ponder Yonder wrote:disasteur wrote:Quote: We have been listening carefully to the feedback we have been hearing from the community and as a result, the team is working towards another deployment this Friday the 1st of June.
you are doing a lot but clearly listening isnt part of it, im sorry I disagree. A lot of posts on this thread and others have asked for persistent windows. CCP is delivering this on Friday. A lot of posts have asked for a mouse-only way of creating new windows, instead of shift-click. CCP is delivering this on Friday. Ditto for shortcuts, POS trees, etc. Yes, we are not getting the moon on a stick, but they are listening and they are moving in the right direction. There are many vocal bitchers and whiners who seem to think that CCP will somehow 'roll it all back' if they just ***** enough. They will be disappointed. This is EVE - adapt or GTFO. - Ponder its your right to disagree, same as it is my right to complain and being a whiner as you put so delicately, i tell you why.... they willingly put all the complaints in the test-forums aside, kept the positive reactions and mixed it up with there own view. i know i wont get a roll-back, anyone believing that can just stop complaining, but i for one hope that all these posts finally makes it clear to CCP that they have to start listening i am also aware of the EULA etc, game play may chance during blah blah blah etc etc, but as a player who uses the UI in every known way this is a hell! that should not have been released.
I'm sorry, I did not mean to imply that you are a whiner.
You are correct that they ignored a lot of what was written on the test forums and released something buggy and incomplete. My point is that that is in the past. What is important is what is happenning now: they do seem to be listening and fixing. |
Mangone
Domination. En Garde
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 12:10:00 -
[594] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:I've not been able to be very active on the forums for the last couple of days simple because my time is better spent fixing defects as it is.
First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers. We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly.
Revamping a fundamental system, used by every single player, such as the inventory system so that it will fit every player's needs and expectations from day one is a tall order to say the least. There is probably no other system within EVE that is as multidimensional as the inventory and the use cases seem to be endless. The old system had not changed much at all and most of you veterans could probably operate it at lightning speeds blindfolded. Having to waste time re-learning basic things is annoying as hell and I get it. I've been there myself. I would be pretty furious if someone forced me to use a different Python editor, and it would probably slow me down tremendously for the first couple of days or even weeks. A fitting punishment for my crimes maybe?
THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. We identified the inventory as being one of the biggest violator and that's why we went on this journey (not because we like to spend Sunday afternoons on the EVE forums, lovely as they are, mind you!). A lot of things have changed in the world of user interfaces during the last 10 years, and I think it's safe to say that a game shipping with the old EVE inventory system EVE today would receive mixed reviews.
The old system had been brewing out in the wild for 9 years, but the new one for less than a week, so obviously it has not received the same amount of updates and fixes. We are, and will be working hard to make sure that no matter your profession in EVE, you will have an equally or faster way of doing what you need to do.
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Making it optional is also not optional (confusingly enough) as it would require us to maintain two systems side by side which would cause an exponential increase in code and interface complexity if we were to make a habit of it. It's not as simple or as good of an idea as it might seem at first.
One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it. When we do, people without exceptions ask for the old one back. Doing both is obviously impossible. There is still work to be done and work we shall.
I think someone has lead u guys in the wrong way of thinking. This game cannot be played with one window to rule them all. We need multiple windows to arrange stuff in stations!!!
Heck i even use 2 separated explorer windows in Win 7 to move stuff between them...
|
Olan Chang
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 12:29:00 -
[595] - Quote
Thanks for the last patch.
Opening a CHA or SMA used to take forever (and not just with the new inventory system). It was worse with the new system, since the lag came back if you had changed grid since you opened a CHA or SMA last . It's now so fast. All the time. WOW.
Not being able to rename some POS module was a pain before, mainly when having those modules on overview, but with the new system it was a major issue. Being able now is a major fix too.
Once the POS guns are put in their own folder and the client remember which hangar has open last, the new inventory will a major improvement over the old one for POS living.
In station I already thought it was great. people complain that the client doesn't remember the position of windows, but it's not important now... Before it was the only to deal with the dozen of windows you had to keep open.
Thanks for the quick fixes :) |
Mangone
Domination. En Garde
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 12:46:00 -
[596] - Quote
Olan Chang wrote:Thanks for the last patch.
In station I already thought it was great. people complain that the client doesn't remember the position of windows, but it's not important now... Before it was the only to deal with the dozen of windows you had to keep open.
Thanks for the quick fixes :)
Stop lying. That is very important thing what ruins being in station. And it must be fixed asap. If its not problem for u fine. U still cant lie about it not being important to other players. How much can 22 day old char know about station sorting anyways? Try again when u have 100 ships 100 cans and 10k items in 1 station.
And only way to sort stuff in stations for me is to keep multiple windows open. So we need multiple windows!!! |
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
80
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 13:57:00 -
[597] - Quote
Ponder Yonder wrote: I disagree. A lot of posts on this thread and others have asked for persistent windows. CCP is delivering this on Friday. A lot of posts have asked for a mouse-only way of creating new windows, instead of shift-click. CCP is delivering this on Friday. Ditto for shortcuts, POS trees, etc.
Yes, we are not getting the moon on a stick, but they are listening and they are moving in the right direction.
There are many vocal bitchers and whiners who seem to think that CCP will somehow 'roll it all back' if they just ***** enough. They will be disappointed. This is EVE - adapt or GTFO.
- Ponder
Except they didn't listen to the hordes of ppl asking for those very things for nearly 4 weeks on SiSi....what were you saying?
More iterated Feedback:
Please for the love of all that is sacred...can i be allowed to close the 'space' inventory w/o it effecting the state of the 'station'...
ie...i undock, i shift-click-wthisthisfor my ships cargo to a much much (did i say much) smaller and useable window and put it to the side...since i don't need the main window that shows the exact same thing as my cargo window does...i click 'close'...i do my things...i redock....where did my 'station' inventory go? Oh, wait, i closed the 'space' one so now i have to close every singe window i had previously shift-clicked open, then i can click the 'inventory' button and again have my regular 'station' window...
Please fix this.
Again, this was asked for while it was still on SiSi, in the Pre-Alpha state before you gave us the Alpha version to test on TQ...(why did you ignore?) http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
Jack Mancetti
Rennfeuer Curatores Veritatis Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 15:05:00 -
[598] - Quote
Oncemore . . get us back old Inventory,this new is crap:
- take ages to load - take ages to get the right inventory - looting in space is a pain - i want to play internet spaceship not a click . .scroll ..click ...scroll orgy
Soory guys but this s not the right way in my opinion . |
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC Vanguard.
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 15:46:00 -
[599] - Quote
Olan Chang wrote:Thanks for the last patch.
Opening a CHA or SMA used to take forever (and not just with the new inventory system). It was worse with the new system, since the lag came back if you had changed grid since you opened a CHA or SMA last . It's now so fast. All the time. WOW.
Not being able to rename some POS module was a pain before, mainly when having those modules on overview, but with the new system it was a major issue. Being able now is a major fix too.
Once the POS guns are put in their own folder and the client remember which hangar has open last, the new inventory will a major improvement over the old one for POS living.
In station I already thought it was great. people complain that the client doesn't remember the position of windows, but it's not important now... Before it was the only to deal with the dozen of windows you had to keep open.
Thanks for the quick fixes :)
WOW the sock puppet speaks again!
Can we not have DEVs propping up their failures by these fakes PLEASE!!! |
disasteur
Tellcomtec Incorporated. Preatoriani
129
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 16:56:00 -
[600] - Quote
Krystyn wrote:Olan Chang wrote:Thanks for the last patch.
Opening a CHA or SMA used to take forever (and not just with the new inventory system). It was worse with the new system, since the lag came back if you had changed grid since you opened a CHA or SMA last . It's now so fast. All the time. WOW.
Not being able to rename some POS module was a pain before, mainly when having those modules on overview, but with the new system it was a major issue. Being able now is a major fix too.
Once the POS guns are put in their own folder and the client remember which hangar has open last, the new inventory will a major improvement over the old one for POS living.
In station I already thought it was great. people complain that the client doesn't remember the position of windows, but it's not important now... Before it was the only to deal with the dozen of windows you had to keep open.
Thanks for the quick fixes :) WOW the sock puppet speaks again! Can we not have DEVs propping up their failures by these fakes PLEASE!!!
did he get payed to say this? or else he really missing some connections upstairs |
|
Osiris Wanabe
The Executives Executive Outcomes
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 17:38:00 -
[601] - Quote
disasteur wrote:Krystyn wrote:Olan Chang wrote:Thanks for the last patch.
Opening a CHA or SMA used to take forever (and not just with the new inventory system). It was worse with the new system, since the lag came back if you had changed grid since you opened a CHA or SMA last . It's now so fast. All the time. WOW.
Not being able to rename some POS module was a pain before, mainly when having those modules on overview, but with the new system it was a major issue. Being able now is a major fix too.
Once the POS guns are put in their own folder and the client remember which hangar has open last, the new inventory will a major improvement over the old one for POS living.
In station I already thought it was great. people complain that the client doesn't remember the position of windows, but it's not important now... Before it was the only to deal with the dozen of windows you had to keep open.
Thanks for the quick fixes :) WOW the sock puppet speaks again! Can we not have DEVs propping up their failures by these fakes PLEASE!!! did he get payed to say this? or else he really missing some connections upstairs
CCP alt...
|
Makaganti
University of Caille Gallente Federation
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 20:01:00 -
[602] - Quote
Osiris Wanabe wrote:disasteur wrote:Krystyn wrote:Olan Chang wrote:Thanks for the last patch.
Opening a CHA or SMA used to take forever (and not just with the new inventory system). It was worse with the new system, since the lag came back if you had changed grid since you opened a CHA or SMA last . It's now so fast. All the time. WOW.
Not being able to rename some POS module was a pain before, mainly when having those modules on overview, but with the new system it was a major issue. Being able now is a major fix too.
Once the POS guns are put in their own folder and the client remember which hangar has open last, the new inventory will a major improvement over the old one for POS living.
In station I already thought it was great. people complain that the client doesn't remember the position of windows, but it's not important now... Before it was the only to deal with the dozen of windows you had to keep open.
Thanks for the quick fixes :) WOW the sock puppet speaks again! Can we not have DEVs propping up their failures by these fakes PLEASE!!! did he get payed to say this? or else he really missing some connections upstairs CCP alt...
lol
With Unity there is Power |
Geksz
Pangalactic Punks n' Playboys HUN Reloaded
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 20:58:00 -
[603] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:I've not been able to be very active on the forums for the last couple of days simple because my time is better spent fixing defects as it is.
First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers. We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly.
Revamping a fundamental system, used by every single player, such as the inventory system so that it will fit every player's needs and expectations from day one is a tall order to say the least. There is probably no other system within EVE that is as multidimensional as the inventory and the use cases seem to be endless. The old system had not changed much at all and most of you veterans could probably operate it at lightning speeds blindfolded. Having to waste time re-learning basic things is annoying as hell and I get it. I've been there myself. I would be pretty furious if someone forced me to use a different Python editor, and it would probably slow me down tremendously for the first couple of days or even weeks. A fitting punishment for my crimes maybe?
THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. We identified the inventory as being one of the biggest violator and that's why we went on this journey (not because we like to spend Sunday afternoons on the EVE forums, lovely as they are, mind you!). A lot of things have changed in the world of user interfaces during the last 10 years, and I think it's safe to say that a game shipping with the old EVE inventory system EVE today would receive mixed reviews.
The old system had been brewing out in the wild for 9 years, but the new one for less than a week, so obviously it has not received the same amount of updates and fixes. We are, and will be working hard to make sure that no matter your profession in EVE, you will have an equally or faster way of doing what you need to do.
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Making it optional is also not optional (confusingly enough) as it would require us to maintain two systems side by side which would cause an exponential increase in code and interface complexity if we were to make a habit of it. It's not as simple or as good of an idea as it might seem at first.
One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it. When we do, people without exceptions ask for the old one back. Doing both is obviously impossible. There is still work to be done and work we shall.
So u are saying that over the last 9 years u(CCP/devs/testers/whatever) weren't able to get enough use cases for testing stuff, and released something this fundamental to the game with this many major flaws?!
Also, u say that the old inventory was violating the too much windows open principle, and then u develop a tree view version of it, wich is an integral part of an operating system called windows, wich happens to use multiple windows to do things. WTF?!?!?!?!?
Why couldn't this part of the inferno expansion be delayed, and polished more on SiSi before released? How long was it on SiSi before release? Did all the major issues were dealt with before release to TQ? Weren't all the issues u face now been told to u on the SiSi feedback forums?
Next time, if u try to revamp something this fundamental PLS PLS PLS for the love of god GIVE IT TIME on SiSi and only release it on TQ if u are absolutely sure, that it won't mess up the gameplay this much! (this was intended for CCP management)
I don't want to give lectures to devs or anything like that, but it seems to me that SiSi is still not ur best friend for testing and player feedback. This have to change radically, especially when dealing with this magnitude of changes IMHO. Otherwise this will be the first in many coming player hated expansions, and dwindling playerbase... :( And i would hate to see things go in that direction!
Sorry for the tone of this post, but this is not the first time a patch/expansion/CCP intentions go the wrong way with EVE and the players, and i'm a "bit" emotional about EVE since Incarna...
Otherwise i wish all the best for the dev teams, and great job with the new inventory, just give it more time next time pls!!! Noone would be mad at u now if u had delayed the deployment of the new Inventory till more polishing, testing, and ironing out! |
jarlgeir
Brother Theo's Monastery The Ancients.
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 21:36:00 -
[604] - Quote
Well CCP,
I notice your "don't fix it if it ain't broke" department has been busy again, making me do insanity checks each time I need to open a cargohold, transfer stuff or loot a wreck. Gimme my old cargohold functionality back again (I don't care how, just do it), and remember you are NOT the Microsoft Monopoly. We don't need your devs running around renaming stuff just to confuse us, or to redesign and hide features just to annoy us.
And please find something else for these guys to do. Here are some suggestions on how they can spend their time:
Play with POS improvements without messing with the old stuff which worked fine until you f...ed with it
Fix some of the many bugs within the game
Go read the docs from the CSM, there are a few things they (yea, that means us, your paying customers) want you to do.
Transfer those lun....eeh, honoured gentlemen to the Dust 514 project!
Give these guys the CEO credit card and tell em to drink everything stocked in the nearest bar, yeah I now that won't result in much new code, but so what? The resulting reduction of customer aggro should bring CCP a net profit :p |
Cyprus Amaro
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 22:16:00 -
[605] - Quote
I don't know how you Dev's are able to separate the wheat from the chaff in this thread but....
- Using Ctrl-A to "select all" and then dragging to another window doesn't always drag everything. At times it will leave items that are out of view in the current window. This happens with Ore as well as other items and when moving from cargohold to a can or from cargohold to hangar.
- When coming back into a station, my carghold window now reopens in the same location and same size as when I undocked. Thank you . However, I'm constantly having to compress the "filters" tree. Please! If I compress it, I want it to stay that way. If I've expanded it, I want it to stay that way. ie, windows that are open when you leave station would reopen exactly as they were when you left.
- Using Shift to open a can (in space) when you have your cargo hold open doesn't always open it in a new window. At times (maybe 1/2 the time) it overwrites the cargo hold. This happens to corpmates as well. We have to then close the window, open the cargo hold again and once again shift open the can to get it to open in its own window as it is supposed to.
- There is way too much wasted real estate with the bottom in an item window. Please make that a toggle. It is a nice feature I suppose for some or at times, but most of the time it just takes up valuable screen space. I don't really need to know the presumed value of what I have in my cargo hold at all times. |
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
135
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 23:35:00 -
[606] - Quote
You know what we need to fix the issues: we need Clippy in that UI... "You either need less science fiction or more medication."
"Or less medication and more ammo!" |
Vonce forthelulz
The Ankou Northern Coalition.
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 23:44:00 -
[607] - Quote
Improvements are getting deployed daily but there are still some usability issues-
Problem 1: When flying caps people usually keep the fuel bay window open. Currently, if the bay (or any bay'/hanger) is open as a separate window and the inventory is closed; clicking the inventory button from the taskbar just brings the fuel bay into focus. Currently you need to close the fuel bay then re-open the whole inventory to access your cargo then repeat the open-as-new-window for the fuel bay. This is silly.
Problem 2: The Icon / Details / List options need to be per-tab and not globally change the display of items. Ex: When you have 2000 items in your item hanger (list) then switch to a corp hanger and want to quickly designate between two similar items like bpo and bpc (detail) then switch to ship hanger (icon)GǪ basically itGÇÖs a pain to have to keep changing that option every time you change tabs. |
Kayrl Bheskagor
Hedion University Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 01:10:00 -
[608] - Quote
CCP Optimal wrote:. . .
First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers. We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly.
. . .
THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. We identified the inventory as being one of the biggest violator and that's why we went on this journey (not because we like to spend Sunday afternoons on the EVE forums, lovely as they are, mind you!). A lot of things have changed in the world of user interfaces during the last 10 years, and I think it's safe to say that a game shipping with the old EVE inventory system EVE today would receive mixed reviews.
. . .
I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). Making it optional is also not optional (confusingly enough) as it would require us to maintain two systems side by side which would cause an exponential increase in code and interface complexity if we were to make a habit of it. It's not as simple or as good of an idea as it might seem at first.
One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it. When we do, people without exceptions ask for the old one back. Doing both is obviously impossible. There is still work to be done and work we shall.
Seriously??
Ok, about the "biggest complaint" surveys. WHEN were these, and WHERE were these? Buried somewhere in this mess of a forum (same team "organized" the forum as "fixed" the inventory?), or some other obscure place? Here's something that's pretty simple, I would have thought. If you want to do a survey about a game, SEND EVERYONE IN THE GAME an IN-GAME EMAIL about it, with a LINK. There are a lot of problems that players talk/complain about, and I've NEVER heard any of them complain that they have too many windows open. If/when they allegedly complain, did you explain to them that they can NEST the windows, with CUSTOM NAMED TABS, that STAY nested?? It'll display ONE window at a time, even if you have TEN open.
How often is the UI ACTUALLY "constantly" being requested to be changed?
About the inventory though. So, a tree style layout, with way more lag, involving more mouse clicks to do just about everything, and aside from the stupid treed hierarchy, what is it doing that the old inventory DIDN'T? The filters could have been put in the old inventory. The lag inducing inventory tree does the same thing the nested tabs did, without wasting so much screen space. The old inventory could have the display listed the three ways the new one does. The lag inducing tree adds nothing, except lag, and the normal MAJOR GUI problems that accompany EVERY UI update you do.
Lots of players, still a minority unfortunately, ARE, DO and DID say what they didn't like, EXPLICITLY, but most points were ignored. -So you're fixing the lag - haven't seen evidence of it after today's patch. Still laggy. Fail. -Maybe you'll allow multiple windows to stay open. Gee, thanks. So the fact that the ship and inventory AREN'T being left open, is intentional?? Fail. -Window positions and sizes still aren't being remembered (and yes, I've already done the MANDATORY settings resets that are needed after EVERY UI PATCH). Fail -On every dock/undock, the index is showed, even though the little arrows say it's collapsed. Need to click twice to actually collapse it. Fail -On every dock/undock, my filters are expanded, even though it says it's collapsed. Need to click twice to actually collapse it. Fail. -Open a corp hangar in an orca, fly away, and the window stays open. Fail. Same with any external inventory that goes out of range. -Shift click to open a separate window works about half the time. Likely due to your useless lag-tree. -Select all might select all, but at least half the time the only items that drag are the ones visible while the rest are left behind. Fail. Likely due to your useless lag-tree. -Price estimates aren't required on every window. Fail. Right click menu - enable/disable, k? -The new windows frames waste more space than the original WORKING one. Fail. Put the display format, cargo and filter window on the SAME LINE. -New inventory can't be disabled. Fail. -Window behaviour can't be toggled on/off to open in new window as default, instead of nested in the useless, lag inducing tree. Fail. This behaviour needs to be translated to the hot keys for the ships and the station inventory too. -Right click menu options to access storage areas were removed. Fail.
I guess the easiest way to force players to use the useless tree structure, is to remove any other way to do it.
Some actual USEFUL things, "problems" that players actually MENTION. Auto sort - with enable/disable Auto stack - with enable disable Sell from ANY inventory window if you want, as well as trade and contract.
Lots of other areas and styles of plays with their own problems associated with the inventory, but that, like possibly many/most of these points, has been covered. if some are new, they're new. If they are repeats, then this is ANOTHER player with the SAME problems with the SAME useless inventory. After nearly 200 forum webpages of mainly negative inventory coverage, what does it take for CCP to get the point?? Impossible number vs CCP ego on the inventory? |
Kayrl Bheskagor
Hedion University Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 01:13:00 -
[609] - Quote
. . . oh, and PLEASE tell me you don't have plans to screw up the assets format in the same way. ?? |
Pidgeon Saissore
Dark Neutron Star
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 01:29:00 -
[610] - Quote
The problem I see most of is that the new invintory loads more data then is necessary for an immediate situation. The problem with it is that something load when you dont want it to which significantly effects computer performance without any practical use. Most notably when looting wrecks in missions and the like it loads your ships cargo every time you open something even if it is already open which causes a delay that hinders the ability to salvage quickly which hurts quite a bit when attempting to on the move. Also it loads my several hundred item invintory when I am only trying to change ships which potentially crashes the client.
The solution that I sugest for it is that there be a way to open seperate windows of it which do not have the whole tree linked at all. This will eliminate the lag caused by the extra stuff you werent intending to look at anyway.
To do this each invintory window will need to be able to be added to the neocom seperately along with the full tree being available. When first assembling your neocom inventory sections simply drag a tab from the tree to the neocom. Windows split like this will have no link and therefore no associated lag caused by the client trying to open all of your assets. The full inventory will still be available regardless of what has been isolated.
In the case of tabs that arent in the location that you are currently in for instantance ship maint bays and corp hangars from capitals and pos structures there should be a tab in the invintory tree that has a generic form of them. Corp hangar tabs will still all be in the same window unless specifically split once they are open.
My final neocom setting regarding invintory will look something like this: anything i would set as a tab here would also be available as a seperate icon on neocom
1 Ship hangar (if at a pos or near multiple carriers it will have seperate tabs for each of them in the window) 2 Item hangar (tabs for each container in it to move a whole container to a cargo simply drag the whole tab) 3 Active Ship cargo 4 Inactive ship cargos (seperate tab for each) 5 Corperate hangar (tabs available as normal) 6 Unified inventory tree
On a related note the inventory tree should not display all items only give a way to open all the windows in it. |
|
Hoshino Rika
Caldari State Library Task Force
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 22:54:00 -
[611] - Quote
Dear CCP.
Please let us choose if we want to use old or new system. As you wanted feedback, ill write something constructive. To make eve perfect game, allow us to put eve windows outside main game window, GIMP-style. That would make this game perfect.
With regards.
Eve-fan
|
Selieania
Star Frontiers Ignore This.
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 23:59:00 -
[612] - Quote
The new unified inventory is terrible. Laggy. Glitchy. Complete waste of time. Search criteria clear every time you click on another window which you HAVE to do. Change it back PLEASE |
Teclador
Stardust Heavy Industries Persona Non Gratis
28
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 02:00:00 -
[613] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:The reception of the Unified Inventory seems to be somewhat less than perfect as some of the functionality is not in the state as it should be. We are listening carefully to your good and welcome feedback and treat it serious. Without further ado, let me present a Sunday devblog by Lead Game Designer CCP Soundwave about the first round of Unified Inventory improvements, read all about these changes here. Please use this thread for feedback, thank you.
Hey CCP, don't you get it?
WE WONT HAVE ANY IMPROVEMENTS OF THE NEW UNIFIED INVENTORY, WE WANT THE OLD INVENTORY BACK. |
Leocadminone
Gem Concordance
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 02:18:00 -
[614] - Quote
I don't understand why CCP can't understand that the WHOLE CONCEPT of forcing folks to do all inventory management in one window is BROKEN BY CONCEPT.
If you can't see where you are moving stuff TOO, it becomes a significant waste of time and a MUCH bugger pain to do any sort of inventory management.
ROLL BACK the whole "unified inventory" stupidity, the CONCEPT is where it is broken, no amount of "fiddling with the broken implimentation" is going to rescue THIS turkey.
|
Cold Ethyl
Eskimo Pie Corp
19
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 04:05:00 -
[615] - Quote
. |
Senarian Tyme
Serenity Rising LLC Vanguard.
46
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 04:27:00 -
[616] - Quote
Has Hilmar appologized yet? |
Race Drones
13th Squadron Cascade Imminent
30
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 12:53:00 -
[617] - Quote
Pidgeon Saissore wrote: The problem I see most of is that the new invintory loads more data then is necessary for an immediate situation ... The problem with it is that something load when you dont want it to which significantly effects computer performance without any practical use ...
Keep it simple, Stupid! - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle
|
Race Drones
13th Squadron Cascade Imminent
30
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 12:56:00 -
[618] - Quote
Hoshino Rika wrote:Dear CCP. ... allow us to put eve windows outside main game window, GIMP-style. That would make this game perfect. With regards. Eve-fan
+1 ... but, why do you think CCP know what is GIMP?.
Keep it simple, Stupid! - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle
|
Miner Mule
20 Mules Mining The Luminae Foothold
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 13:14:00 -
[619] - Quote
Ahhh I'm close to quitting this game. Logged off at 0600 EST in the states, came back on at 0800 EST to find half of my containers in my corp office empty. Missing, gone poofies, no longer there. I suspect it has to do with the recent downdate this morning. No one got my PW. I don't visit sites away from EVE. Hell I don't have a life except for Eve. My isk still in my wallet, several bil isk worth of ships are still in my ship hangar bay. What I'm missing, is several hundred million of criminal tags, and sundry salvage most of it as useless as teats on a bull anyway, Then there are all the pieces to my rorqual that I have been slowly assembling, several million in new T-1 and T-2 mining crystals. God knows what all is actually missing. It was there when I signed off, now it seems to be missing. Also missing are the Capital construction BPO's that were in those containers. Yet several bil isk worth of minerals all there, My 2 POS's and all the station crap all missing. Thanks CCP, you completely screwed the pooch this time. You took something that didn't need changing and changed it. It was fine just the way it was. Want to change POS storage fine, leave the corp hangar, item hangar and ship cargo bay's alone. Kiss my 6 accounts goodbye, I am not going to try and replace everything. 3 years wasted on this game, Because instead of fixing things like invention that needed to be fixed, you broke something that didn't need to be fixed,
Ahhh screw it, I'm gone, ciao |
blaine thepain
Die GALLIER Cloud 7 Nebulosa
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 13:19:00 -
[620] - Quote
Kayrl Bheskagor wrote:CCP Optimal wrote:. . .
First, on the SISI thing; it's true that we let a few issues slip us and that's regrettable, but it is simply a fact that not all issues surface on test servers. We certainly did fix a LOT of issues that we discovered through your feedback from SISI. But, not all of them sadly. . . . THE biggest complaint about the EVE UI, according to our surveys, is the number of windows needed to accomplish tasks. We identified the inventory as being one of the biggest violator and that's why we went on this journey (not because we like to spend Sunday afternoons on the EVE forums, lovely as they are, mind you!). A lot of things have changed in the world of user interfaces during the last 10 years, and I think it's safe to say that a game shipping with the old EVE inventory system EVE today would receive mixed reviews. . . . I beg you to honestly give the new system a try. If you still don't like it and you aren't able to find an equally good or better work flow for your tasks, tell us why. Many of you have already done so, and we will are already acting on that feedback, but keep it coming. Telling us that it sucks won't help anyone, and I must stretch what has already been stated that reverting the entire thing is not an option (It's also as good as technically impossible). . . .
One of the hardest part of EVE is dealing with the UI and we are constantly being asked to change it. When we do, people without exceptions ask for the old one back. Doing both is obviously impossible. There is still work to be done and work we shall. Seriously?? Ok, about the "biggest complaint" surveys. WHEN were these, and WHERE were these? Buried somewhere in this mess of a forum (same team "organized" the forum as "fixed" the inventory?), or some other obscure place? Here's something that's pretty simple, I would have thought. If you want to do a survey about a game, SEND EVERYONE IN THE GAME an IN-GAME EMAIL about it, with a LINK. There are a lot of problems that players talk/complain about, and I've NEVER heard any of them complain that they have too many windows open. If/when they allegedly complain, did you explain to them that they can NEST the windows, with CUSTOM NAMED TABS, that STAY nested?? It'll display ONE window at a time, even if you have TEN open. How often is the UI ACTUALLY "constantly" being requested to be changed? About the inventory though. So, a tree style layout, with way more lag, involving more mouse clicks to do just about everything, and aside from the stupid treed hierarchy, what is it doing that the old inventory DIDN'T? The filters could have been put in the old inventory. The lag inducing inventory tree does the same thing the nested tabs did, without wasting so much screen space. The old inventory could have the display listed the three ways the new one does. The lag inducing tree adds nothing, except lag, and the normal MAJOR GUI problems that accompany EVERY UI update you do. Lots of players, still a minority unfortunately, ARE, DO and DID say what they didn't like, EXPLICITLY, but most points were ignored. -So you're fixing the lag - haven't seen evidence of it after today's patch. Still laggy. Fail. -Maybe you'll allow multiple windows to stay open. Gee, thanks. So the fact that the ship and inventory AREN'T being left open, is intentional?? Fail. -Window positions and sizes still aren't being remembered (and yes, I've already done the MANDATORY settings resets that are needed after EVERY UI PATCH). Fail -On every dock/undock, the index is showed, even though the little arrows say it's collapsed. Need to click twice to actually collapse it. Fail -On every dock/undock, my filters are expanded, even though it says it's collapsed. Need to click twice to actually collapse it. Fail. -Open a corp hangar in an orca, fly away, and the window stays open. Fail. Same with any external inventory that goes out of range. -Shift click to open a separate window works about half the time. Likely due to your useless lag-tree. -Select all might select all, but at least half the time the only items that drag are the ones visible while the rest are left behind. Fail. Likely due to your useless lag-tree. -Price estimates aren't required on every window. Fail. Right click menu - enable/disable, k? -The new windows frames waste more space than the original WORKING one. Fail. Put the display format, cargo and filter window on the SAME LINE. -New inventory can't be disabled. Fail. -Window behaviour can't be toggled on/off to open in new window as default, instead of nested in the useless, lag inducing tree. Fail. This behaviour needs to be translated to the hot keys for the ships and the station inventory too. -Right click menu options to access storage areas were removed. Fail. -Cargohold doesn't default to active ship. Fail -Doubleclick a ship now makes it active instead of open the cargo hold, like it always used to. Arbitrary change. Fail. I guess the easiest way to force players to use the useless tree structure, is to remove any other way to do it. Some actual USEFUL things, "problems" that players actually MENTION. Auto sort - with enable/disable Auto stack - with enable disable Sell from ANY inventory window if you want, as well as trade and contract.
100% aggree :(
How many time has been spend to that new inventory? Since it was releases i stopped activ playing Eve. Just waiting for the fix i can use my windows the old way. Some good ideas comes with the new UI but it seems that the Programmers never played Eve. |
|
Sanya Mazepa
Visions of the Goddess
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 14:47:00 -
[621] - Quote
Embrace change Adapt to change Profit from change
New inventory ui stays, just needs some modifications.
I dont look forward to going back to the classic inventory system. I love the new inventory ui elements. Some things are a bit annoying but, just like anything new, it'll have bugs that needs to be squashed and optimizations that need to be made.
Has CCP lost all of it's creative control over eve? Seems that way if they listen to all the whiners and cry babies on the forums. |
EarthZone
HomeZone
12
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 16:05:00 -
[622] - Quote
Can't and won't play with this. Still want classic inventory windows back. |
T's little helper
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 19:21:00 -
[623] - Quote
I'll now let my accounts expire, one by one. This UI makes the game impossible to use. If CCP restore the previous UI before the last account expire, i will most likely activate the accounts again and continue eve, but i don't have much hope about it. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
126
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 19:21:00 -
[624] - Quote
I have given the new inventory a chance. I though that once got used to it, it would be fine. Major changes like this take time to get used to. However after several weeks I still hate it. I have had numerous items go missing including several capital BPO's that had several months of research gone into them. With so many things in this game that actually warranted attention why screw with something that worked so well thew way it was. This is driving me mad having to reorganize All my inventory windows every time I open something new. And It doesn't remember any of the changes I make reverting back to the useless new unified window. This may have worked as a replacement for the assets window with improved search. But as far as inventory management goes loading every item I own on grid every time I open a can or cargo is really annoying, not to mention the complete lack of personalization we had with the old system. This was a bad idea and e3en worse implementation. I really do not see how any amount of tweaking can gewt this any where near as useful as the old system. reducing system resources needed to run things like the inventory is always a good idea, but the optimization does not help when the new system has to deal with way more info. the end result is more lag not less. |
blaine thepain
Die GALLIER Cloud 7 Nebulosa
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 20:12:00 -
[625] - Quote
After the patch today im sure its going in the right direction. After an hour i have all windows organized like before Inferno. It's terrible slow, fps drops, useless marked prices, useless inventory tree (except when u start doing some stuff in the inventory u always need it too shift click). Not everything works as intended and so on.
As CCP says: everything was done from scratch because of the old code was not healthy. I would say the old code was perfectly optimized during the years by good employes who understand what they do. The new guys who say "the code is broken, we cant fix it -> means realy : how the f*** this could work i can't understand it.
So we have a great "charakter generator", great shiny and blinky "Captain Quarters" and a new superior inventory. All of them captured a lot of workhorses to find the way to TQ. All of them are useless.
Captain Quarters would be interressting in 5 Years or so what (maybe) Also the great "Charakter Generator". A new one "Heads Only" more then enough (Saving all the time for creating the clothes) Inventory "If you done with it to get all the feeling, speed and handling like before Inferno the code looks also terrible im sure"
Other MMORPG's would be killed by a newer and better MMORPG (if it possible it's the same MMORPG with a shiny "II" after the name.
EVE would be killed by EVE and there is nothing behind it.
Good Job CCP. Hopefuly all the other changes "features" are great. And youre right -> the Universe is on fire
Edit: all of this makes me really sad. Everything could be fine if only broken things would be fixed. Eve don't need new blinky and shiny stuff. There is enough for years for CCP to optimize and us to play with it. |
Fukushuu Shinaide
The Big Bambu
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 21:40:00 -
[626] - Quote
Miner Mule wrote:Ahhh I'm close to quitting this game. Logged off at 0600 EST in the states, came back on at 0800 EST to find half of my containers in my corp office empty. Missing, gone poofies, no longer there. I suspect it has to do with the recent downdate this morning. No one got my PW. I don't visit sites away from EVE. Hell I don't have a life except for Eve. My isk still in my wallet, several bil isk worth of ships are still in my ship hangar bay. What I'm missing, is several hundred million of criminal tags, and sundry salvage most of it as useless as teats on a bull anyway, Then there are all the pieces to my rorqual that I have been slowly assembling, several million in new T-1 and T-2 mining crystals. God knows what all is actually missing. It was there when I signed off, now it seems to be missing. Also missing are the Capital construction BPO's that were in those containers. Yet several bil isk worth of minerals all there, My 2 POS's and all the station crap all missing. Thanks CCP, you completely screwed the pooch this time. You took something that didn't need changing and changed it. It was fine just the way it was. Want to change POS storage fine, leave the corp hangar, item hangar and ship cargo bay's alone. Kiss my 6 accounts goodbye, I am not going to try and replace everything. 3 years wasted on this game, Because instead of fixing things like invention that needed to be fixed, you broke something that didn't need to be fixed,
Ahhh screw it, I'm gone, ciao bumped for effect |
Fukushuu Shinaide
The Big Bambu
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 21:44:00 -
[627] - Quote
Sanya Mazepa wrote:Embrace change Adapt to change Profit from change
New inventory ui stays, just needs some modifications.
I dont look forward to going back to the classic inventory system. I love the new inventory ui elements. Some things are a bit annoying but, just like anything new, it'll have bugs that needs to be squashed and optimizations that need to be made.
Has CCP lost all of it's creative control over eve? Seems that way if they listen to all the whiners and cry babies on the forums. The day I let a two month old wet behind the ears pigeon eater sway my opinion into pretending I'm blind is the day I go play WoW. Wait until you have a few THOUSAND items and a dozen or more ships to deal with. Then proclaim how great it is you brownnoseing bootlicker. |
Myrkala
Missions Mining and Mayhem Northern Coalition.
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 22:35:00 -
[628] - Quote
I found a small issue with the layouting design, currently its taking up a bit too much space to display data that could be displayed in a smaller footprint, mainly on the bottom part of the window but improvements could also be made to the top part as well, however that may be a bit trickier to fix without it becoming too cluttered.
See the image to see how it currently is and a proposal to hopefully improve:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Myrkala/InventoryTweak.png
I know the top part would probably get very cramped when you resize the window down to its smallest possible size, but my main gripe is with the two line text output at the bottom, the border it creates is just too thick
Some other thoughts:
Double clicking "Index" while it is open should minimize it again, I don't like having to move my mouse to do it, sometimes you just want to take a "peek" and you could do that really fast if you wouldnt have to move your mouse. Clicking the "Index" label right now has no function. In contrast double clicking on a ship name in the tree opens/closes that "branch".
MERGE Character sheet and Training Queue Its obvious how redundant the Training Queue window is when you click that button in the character sheet and window that looks almost the same opens up... just make the button add/slide out a queue list to the character sheet when it is selected.
The queue info is already displayed in the normal skill overview too (blue and light blue boxes), seems like a half finished job at the moment. |
walmartsux
Shallow White Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 05:25:00 -
[629] - Quote
I haven't commented yet on the inventory tree cause i wanted to keep an open mind and give it a try before judging.. The trial time has elapsed and I am thoroughly annoyed used to my cans would open in a stack and my cargo always separate. It is in no way helpful to have the new can i am opening to come up over my cargo that i am trying to fill. why is it when i select all ores to drop in a can and it gets dropped over a ore that doesn't match that ore type it gets kicked back to my cargo?? It used to just create a new stack of that type at the end now i have to make sure to drop between items or i get to do it for every type of ore in my cargo. Thoroughly disgusted with the new system and await its removal.. |
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
52
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 12:54:00 -
[630] - Quote
Copied directly from a similar thread as the GM in question gave me two threads to choose from and as there is know way of knowing which one you Devs will look at I posted in both for good measure.
BTW! Sorry! Comments submitted under an alt to avoid passing on strategic/and tactical info to our adversaries
Never mind all the flaming click clicking and multi windows, as of the 4th June 2012 it is still not possible for any audit/secure container to be opened on our Station Corp Hanger decks, this is despite the alleged patch to fix this on Friday the 1st of June 2012. So now in effect all corp assets in audit logged / secured containers cannot be accessed by anyone now despite there being visible on the respective hanger deck either in stations or at POS Corp Hanger arrays. In my oppinion this is having a notable effect on game play in other words a GÇ£Game play issueGÇ¥. For all relevant EVE players.
Strange how that appears not the view of a certain GM when the petition was sent in.(Please note the petition was submiited after the Friday patch was applied as you know you cannot play EVE till you have patched, something else the GM didnt seem to realise when replying to my petition) Instead he directed me to these forums in the hope a solution was in here. Or post a comment in the hope they will pick up the problem AGAIN! as it isn't fixed.
By experimenting we find some Directors can open a container but cannot see the items even though the container volume shows they are all at varying levels of fullness other Directors cannot even open the cans. Any one else without even Director Level access has not a hope in hell of seeing them let alone access them.
Yesterday 2nd June 2012 we had to give temporary director level access to a trusted corp mate so that he could access our members hanger, at one of the Corps, POS Corp Hanger arrays, ffs that is a hanger even our relative noob players would have access to before the damn unified Inventory using the normal permissions tables that have been available for years.
For now as a safety measure in case the access permissions get further screwed we have temporarily taken away access to all except very trusted and director level members until this is resolved, even for them itGÇÖs a royal pain in the ass.
On a lighter Note:
CCP are you sure you don't have a mole in your team lurking from another MMOG sabotaging your stuff? Cos it sure begins to look that way. Your stuff was never, ever, ever as bad as this, hmmm execpt perhaps for the auto deleting Win ini file incident some time back, but there again it might have been the same mole.
Take a look, EVEonline has more layers of skullduggery/espionage/conspiracies and wrong dooers that you may realise, lol maybe Goons got at your code and set it alight, or check, with the "Broker" see if he has been dabbling. |
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Pidgeon Saissore
Dark Neutron Star
25
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 01:06:00 -
[631] - Quote
It seems like most of the performance issues that I have been concerned about with lag regarding the new inventory have been fixed except one. It still takes substantially longer to open a wreck or floating container then it used to. This makes a flyby loot impossible and salvaging while moving more difficult as it often takes longer to open the window then a salvage cycle or you can fly past before it opens. I reccomend that there be ways to loot wrecks without looking inside first. Both in the form of a hotkey to be used directly from the overview and a script for tractor beams and salvagers to do it automatically. |
electrostatus
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
42
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 05:49:00 -
[632] - Quote
Did the inventory system move things? I'm finding some of my items have gotten out of their cans and moved 8 jumps. PI Profit Calculator: calculates your profits and taxes of any PI product depending on how you built them! |
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries B.S.I.
94
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 04:40:00 -
[633] - Quote
Part 1 of 2:
I have been patiently and continually filing bug reports and posting usablely outlined "Issues" and "Feedback" for 3 weeks, and I have now compiled a list of THANK YOUs ... and ... REMAINING/NEW ISSUES (as of Inferno 1.0.10):
THANK YOU FIRST TO ADDRESSING/FIXING THE FOLLOWING:
- MOVING "ALL-SELECTED" ITEMS: ** FIXED! Thank you! - TOO LONG "TAB" NAMES: ** FIXED! Thank you! - LAG: Trading/Job Delivering/Moving Massive Amounts/Stacking All/Selling Items: ** FIXED! Thank you! ...Though you do have several other new lag issues (see below) - "MY FILTERS" ALWAYS OPEN: ** FIXED! Thank you! - MORE TIME-CONSUMING: ** Well.... not quite there, but it's much better. ESPECIALLY "ISK Estimation" not causing noticable lag. Thank you. Please don't stop... (read onward)
...AND NOW THE NEW (AND STILL EXISTING) ISSUES (and UNADDRESSED FEEDBACK/FIXES):
- "Nothing Found" REMAINS IN ALL UI WINDOWS' CONTENT BACKGROUNDS AND TRADE WINDOW BACKGROUNDS (when any opened hangar, container, deliveries window, cargohold, etc): If an EMPTY Unified Inventory window of any kind is opened, anything you place into the window(s) remains with the "Nothing Found" words in the background of each window. I'm sensing a theme of this error as I write this...
(see screenshot)
- CHANGING CORP WALLET DIVISIONS: ...STILL takes 10+ seconds each time it is changed.
- INITIAL LOGGING IN TO GAME HAS MASSIVE "SPINNING WHEELS" LAG: It appears if there are several windows open (i.e., Station Inventory, Ship Cargohold, Corporate Hangar(s), Ship Inventory, Deliveries, for example) then it takes 15-45+ seconds for the game to load up all inventory (or lack of) in each remembered-window opened from previous logge din session... thus the appearance of the "spinning wheel of waiting"... Sometimes sufferably.
- "SPINNING WHEELS" ALSO OCCURS WHEN DOCKING INTO A NEW STATION (as above bug): This is especially noticable when docking with a new station that has another corporate office of own corp. THIS HAS BEEN MENTIONED BY MY OWN MINERS AS: A "HINDERENCE" to (what used to be) a quick "mine-dock-dump ore-undock" procedure. (This obviously has reduced mining by up to 75% if a corp member is continually docking with a corp-office-station. To "lessen" this lag, miners have reported that mining and docking-dumping-undocking at NON-CORP OCCUPIED stations help "lessen" this lag, but is ultimately cumbersome to massively haul final mined ore to a corporate-office station in the end.
- "SHIFT-CLICK" STILL DOES NOT OPEN ANY CONTAINERS IN ANY UNIFIED INVENTORY WINDOW: It's ridiculous for me to not use a shortcut that, though worked last week, doesn't now. NOW, I have to "expand" an existing window to see the "TREE"... and then adjust its width so that I can read all the "too far inset to the right" containers in hangars... then right click and select "Open in new window"... then compress the pointlessly narrow "tree exposure". Too many steps for something that could easily be solved simply by DOUBLE-CLICKING the container and have it open in a new window... or a new tab. **Unaddressed since my notation on June 3.
- LACK OF VISIBLE "ROW" DIVIDING LINES IN ALL "UNIFIED INVENTORY WINDOWS": Take a look at the market listings, or the listings of the Science & Industry wndows... ALL ITEMS HAVE VISIBLE ROW LINES. The Unified Inventory windows all lack those lines. Oh, sure, they're there... AT 10% OPACITY. ** Unaddressed since my notation May 24. HIGHLY needed!
(see screenshot)
...AND because your rows lack lines (when not using any icon-type listing), a person may need to use the mouse pointer to "highlight" and item and its contents... SADLY, when this happens, a window pops up and obstructs what I'm trying to see. This has been noted since May 24 verbatim as:
- "POP UP" INFORMATION IS UNNECESSARY AND BLOCKING MY VIEW: ** This is VERY annoying and unchanged since May 24. When hovering my mouse over an item in hangar, it sometimes is because I'm comparing the quantities of it to another item a few lines above it (especially since there are no visible dividing row lines in LIST mode). SADLY I CANNOT "SEE" anything in those spots (whether name or quantity, etc) being covered by by "estimated prices for both unit price and stack price... in the "compact line-by-line listing mode" (which I use because, well, as you may have seen, my screen has a lot of stuff to look at all at once), this is literally making my tasks more of a pain.
(see screenshot)
- EXISTING WINDOWS IN SPACE DO NOT CLOSE WHEN NOT PRESENT: Currently, secure/loot containers in space, POS containers/hangars/modules, Planetary Customs Office windows stay open, even when warping away from them. IN SOME INSTANCES, the existing open windows get "compressed"/"shoved" into the area of where one's own ship's cargohold UI window is.
- CORPORATE TAXATION IS NOT FUNCTIONING: Several members (for example) of my own corporation have noticed that JUST BEFORE AND AFTER Inferno was "released", certain members' mission rewards, bounties, etc (that appear as taxable ISK which is taken from corp member wallets and deposited into the corp's Master wallet) IS NO LONGER FUNCTIONING. [This has been reported with no response.]
- BRACKETS AND LOWERCASE "TAILED" LETTERS ARE TOO LOW - INTERFERING WITH CHAT WINDOW's TOP LINE VS. EXISTING BAS: The brackets and the tail lowercase letters "q,y,p,g,j" and brackets (i.e. "Local [36]"), all extend BELOW the line of the tabs and the current/"foremost" open chat window borderlines... [Bug Report #135869]
(see screenshot)
CLIENT: Windows XP Pro SP3
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Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries B.S.I.
94
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 04:40:00 -
[634] - Quote
Part 2 of 2:
HIGHLY IMPORTANT SUGGESTIONS:
- PLEASE MAKE "ISK-CALCULATING/EST" VALUES "OPTIONAL": ** Still not publicly addressed: It's really frustrating. Personally, with price estimation and such, that's one of my corporate jobs. THOUGH NOW ITS LAG IS NOT AN ISSUE - ITS TAKING UP SCREEN SPACE... and by the way, "honestly, your price estimations are 50% terribly wrong". I work (play?) in EVE mainly with items of value. I WILL AGREE, THOUGH: For some people, especially non-industrialists and new players, this may be helpful for those players, BUT PLEASE MAKE IT AN OPTION: IT'S NOT FOR EVERYONE.
- PLEASE ALLOW "ROLLOVER NAMES" FOR ITEMS PARTIALLY VISIBLE IN EXPOSED TREE SECTION OF ANY UNIFIED UI WINDOW: This is something that is quite opposite of ALL other "mouseover" behaviors in the game. I can rollover anything, and its full name (or too much information, like costs of items, etc) will always appear... UNTIL I hover over ANYTHING partially exposed in the "narrow TREE view". This is LESS PRODUCTIVE since I have to not only expand to view the "TREE", but I have to then grab the axpansion divider atop and DRAG IT to the right to be able to read ALL my containers inside hangars inside "CORPORATION". EXAMPLE: In my corp, all containers are named ">> INSERT NAME HERE" to help with alphabetization/organization/ease of discernation. However if we have 10 containers in a Corporate hangar, the "opened TREE view" lists it like this:
>> [line] >> [line] >> [line]
So instead of having to drag open the "TREE exposure" column more, if I could see a "pop up/mouse-over" name of the container I can PARTIALLY see, then I can open up the container much more quickly without additional movement and dragging.
- IF YOU DOUBLE-CLICK a place you would like to open, PLEASE MAKE IT AUTOMATICALLY FORCE OPEN in a NEW window. OR GIVE US THE OPTION TO MAKE "DOUBLE-CLICKING" A CONTAINER PERFORM THIS TASK... Because, as we are ALL so used to double-clicking to open a new tab. But NOW, if we do double-click anything, we're stuck with a new window in the same window were in that we can't GO BACK from. This is ridiculously time-consuming. ** This issue/feedback has been noted since May 24.
...AND YES: I have cleared my Cache and reset my Settings more times in the past 3 weeks than I regularly have since January 2012.
So please, when I file a bug report, can someone mention to the Bug Report Responders to include MORE "possible" information than simply "Please try clearing you cache and resetting your settings. If the issue persists, please reopen your report. Thank you."
CLIENT: Windows XP Pro SP3 |
Dasola
Rookies Empire Rookie Empire
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 12:18:00 -
[635] - Quote
As usual CCP has completely ignored most valuadble feedback from test server users, before goin ahead like steamroller... When do you people learn in CCP codeing department. Testserver is there precicely to test things and get valuable feedback before going live with the new stuff... You have most dedicated player base and may i say most ruthless as well, as in we do give feedback when asked... heck we give it even without asking... So PLEASE use us. We are willing to test new features in test server and give you feedback about things that suck bigtime and things that are great. All you need to do is actually be willing to receive that feedback.
Most if not ALL of this controversy about new inventory system could have been avoided if you had actually listened the feedback and fix it before release. Or was this new inventory system just marketing gimmick to get extra headline on list of "improvements" done?
[Insert something funny or smart here] |
Captian Meths
Jabba Industries INC. Punkz 'n Monkeys
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 19:11:00 -
[636] - Quote
I said this before; the dev's are not the cause of these issues, management is clearly not engaged and don't know what asset protection and management is. This is common amongst companies where management have no interest in the companyGÇÖs products or have been in their positions for way too long! What amazes me is that top management is completely unaware (or just don't give a ****) of the complete incompetence amongst middle management and never address this!!!
With every "upgrade/patch" etc. they run around like headless chickens pointing fingers at each other trying to place the blame, yet the truth is all over the forums and if you look back far enough you can actually see a trend which say it loud and clear; your management is too old and ineffective to ensure the future of your asset.
Sad to see corp mates and friends rage quit because some bold headed gits cannot get their act together
|
Needa3
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
27
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 23:21:00 -
[637] - Quote
Can the one or the whole team that came up with this inventory stuff stand up please.
You all deserve to get shot and hang at least twice.
hardly seen this much incompetence lately. thought you would have learned by now. Guess not.
I'll keep my alts in stasis for another year at least.
gg CCP you are really doing everything to get you numbers up are you? |
Katy Ling
Crimnson Concept Flame Flaming Nebula
32
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 02:18:00 -
[638] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote: 2012.05.27 12:41:46
Looting: Cargo containers and wrecks will function the same. Having multiple wrecks or containers open should be easy to loot as you can just click GÇ£loot allGÇ¥ and it will automatically go to the next item on the list instead of your ships cargohold. There is an added performance increase as well.
i disagree ! when i have a small frigat with 125 m3 and there's 3 items with 50 m3, i cannot have the old 2 windows, select item 1 and 3 , from container A to container B
if i choose "Loot All" it attempts to loot some stuff, but not what i want to discriminate. it actually becomes worst, when i click on the open, as it opens over my ship cargo bay and i cannot drag it over what i cannot see !
HOW CAN I LOOT ALL IF I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH CARGO BAY FOR ALL, AND CAN'T CHOOSE WHAT I WANT TO DRAG FROM CONTAINER TO CARGO BAY!?
and by the way, why the heck is there so many metal scraps ? those are often among the items i discriminate and don't want to pick up, but they sure abound too much.
so what sounded simpler, ends up being more complicated.
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Kokaku Kogun
PHEONIX ARMS
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 02:44:00 -
[639] - Quote
I have just one thing to say for the unified inventory... Get rid of it! |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
129
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 02:48:00 -
[640] - Quote
why would you ever not pick up metal scraps? they weigh 0.01 m/3 and refine into 500 trit Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Ships to goo calc - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107898 |
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Katy Ling
Crimnson Concept Flame Flaming Nebula
32
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 02:59:00 -
[641] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:why would you ever not pick up metal scraps? they weigh 0.01 m/3 and refine into 500 trit
it's an example of useless items that have a small vallue compared with more valluable items and you have to choose and manage the limited cargo capacity.
the numbers vary according to many different situations - used to be horrible with cap boosters that don't drop any more, but there's still the same situation there ...
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Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
129
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 03:10:00 -
[642] - Quote
Katy Ling wrote:Kusum Fawn wrote:why would you ever not pick up metal scraps? they weigh 0.01 m/3 and refine into 500 trit it's an example of useless items that have a small vallue compared with more valluable items and you have to choose and manage the limited cargo capacity. the numbers vary according to many different situations - used to be horrible with cap boosters that don't drop any more, but there's still the same situation there ...
i agree taht that used to be the issue when they weighed 5 m/3, but since they got their size reduced, it takes more then a hundred to make any real difference in your cargo, and will refine to a higher price then nearly any standard loot module you replace it with (by weight).
edit - PS the UI still makes me angry Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Ships to goo calc - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107898 |
Katy Ling
Crimnson Concept Flame Flaming Nebula
32
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 06:48:00 -
[643] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Katy Ling wrote:Kusum Fawn wrote:why would you ever not pick up metal scraps? they weigh 0.01 m/3 and refine into 500 trit it's an example of useless items that have a small vallue compared with more valluable items and you have to choose and manage the limited cargo capacity. the numbers vary according to many different situations - used to be horrible with cap boosters that don't drop any more, but there's still the same situation there ... i agree taht that used to be the issue when they weighed 5 m/3, but since they got their size reduced, it takes more then a hundred to make any real difference in your cargo, and will refine to a higher price then nearly any standard loot module you replace it with (by weight). edit - PS the UI still makes me angry
The new UI still makes a lot of people Angry . |
koolmech24
JJ Express
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 08:27:00 -
[644] - Quote
Any idea when the meta level colum will be back ? Sorting thru piles of loot was made easy prior to the new inventory system . Now its back to knowing your stuff |
Chin Hakonen
United Evian Peace Corp
15
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 02:52:00 -
[645] - Quote
Shitload of disappointment ha as usual. Peace is the way of my war. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
210
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 05:16:00 -
[646] - Quote
Just reminding everyone about lack of focus. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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