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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.09 22:08:00 -
[1]
This is the true story of the fable raised by Merdaneth in his own thread of the same name. The Anarchist Tragedy
Prelude (the true story)
Once upon a time there was a group of political dissidents living in the oppressive political environment of the Amarr Empire. They had tried all legal means of protest available to them but many of their number had been arrested, tortured, executed and the movement had been driven underground and persecuted almost to extinction. In essence these were ordinary people who just chose to believe that that it was wrong to pay blind obedience to the culture of power-worship and institutional inequality. The Holders called them Anarchists - they wore the label with pride.
Knowing they could not hope to prevail against the shock-troops of the Amarrian power-elite they stole a Bestower-class industrial laden with agricultural goods, and pooling whatever meagre personal supplies they had each rescued from the wreckage of their previous existence, they made orbit and set course to the Frontier. They wanted a new life, a better one, where individual sovereignty was recognized, where individuals were valued and where freedom was the watchword not blind obedience to meaningless tradition.
On the trip outwards they realized quickly that many things would have to change for themselves as well. In the spartan environment of the cargo holds some elements of personal ownership became meaningless: when a member of their community became sick it was the responsibility of all to treat that sickness in case it might spread and threaten all - so all medicine was appropriated by the most qualified and used wisely. Similarly some skills were very useful to the community, teachers taught all without restraint, knowing that all skills would benefit the whole. No child was left untutored. Ex soldier's taught civilians weapons drills and field maintenance. Farmers taught academics farming and hydroponics techniques. Historians and Sociologists learned carpentry and taught plumbers the theory of enlightened self interest and individual sovereignty in return.
Everyone learned a bit of everything and when one man raised the question:
"Why am I learning to fire a gun or wire a junction box? I'm a Organist by trade and that's where my skills are, why waste my talents on generalist activity?"
The people laughed without rancour and kindly explained:
"Where we are going friend is no place for one-trick ponies and specialization is of value to insects alone my friend!"
And the man shrugged and not wanting to seem a fool resolved to learn his weapons drill and electrical theory as well as anyone else!
Paradise Found
After a long journey they arrived at a pristine world. It was well suited for human life without adaptations, rich in resources and harbouring no existing sentient life: a paradise and that's what they called it. They set down with the ship and quickly assembled shelters and way-stations around their vessel. In no time a ramshackle frontier village was their new home and in honour of their collective ambitions they called the place "Freedom". From the beautiful vistas and temperate climate, rich soil and verdant woodland it was obvious they'd chosen one of the best spots for settlement on the whole planet.
The Problem of the Commons
They soon built up farms and the good soil gave bountiful harvests. Their livestock adapted to the new planet well and multiplied, the hydroponics farms they maintained in the cargo hold and shelters of "Freedom" produced everything they could want and more and those who laboured on the production of food found it easy to trade their effort for the effort of those who built or maintained structures or electrical conduits from the reactors of the grounded starship.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.09 22:10:00 -
[2]
Close by to "Freedom" they had set aside a parcel of grazing land and fruit orchards for the common use of all. Every herder could use this land but it was understood that doing so would be for the common good and the produce would be given freely to the community for feasts and communal celebrations, or for those who might be too ill to work for themselves for a week or month or season.
Eventually a problem arose however. Some questioned the use of common land for communal farming. Some asked whether it was right that they should have to go a kilometre further from the centre of town to graze their own herds and plant their own orchards and raise their own crops. Some angrily suggested that maybe the common land should be shared more equally and that rota systems be employed, that each herder should bring his or her animals from their own farmsteads to the common land each seven-day (and a 2 kilometre round trip) simply for the convenience and prestige of grazing closest to "Freedom".
Listening to this for almost half a hour an old woman finally lost her patience and stood up to speak:
"You idiots! The common land is just that, common land, it's for the community to remind us of the first place we settled on this planet. But Freedom is not in this village. Freedom is everywhere! This planet is a paradise, you can farm wherever you choose. Go tend your own farmsteads and listen to our entertainment broadcasts on the radios. One kilometre is nothing! Back in Amarr space we walked further than that to get to enforced morning, midday and evensong prayers! Foolish idiots, there is no call to reinvent the priority of territory in this virgin soil when there is more than enough for everyone and everyone's children's children's children!"
There were some sheepish expressions then. Those with the loudest voices earlier were now equally vocal in support of the old woman's suggestion. And for the next season the colony redoubled its efforts in colonial establishment and quickly a network of farms and homesteads spread out around the settlement of "Freedom" - each man or woman or family had plenty of space, they established roads between the farms and colony, they traded their excess produce for work and borrowed labour at need, and electricians ran cables from the ship generators to the closest farms while those more remote bartered for standalone power-cells or tinkered with their own solar or wind-powered generators. It became a matter of pride to establish guest homes at the farmsteads and attract visitors and friends to dine. So matters went.
In time they all knew the truth of the old woman's words. "Freedom" wasn't a place. It was a state of mind. It was knowing one's effort and labour would be rewarded by a roof over the head, fine food and warm lodgings and the friendship and acclaim of one's peers. The planet was "Freedom" - there were no laws anymore. Just common sense.
Attack of the Wolves
As the colony expanded and the outlying farmsteads and settlements extended further into the unknown territory a terrible thing happened. Large predatory creatures were seen driven from the distant southlands and attacking the outlying herds of the furthermost settlers. These were beings of great ferocity and many clawed arms and legs and prodigious teeth that could certainly present a threat to an unarmed settler but fortunately none were so vulnerable. They were named "wolves" and everyone agreed they were a collective challenge to the free settlements and that challenge was answered promptly.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.09 22:12:00 -
[3]
The many months of weapons training on the voyage out paid off. The creatures were routed by the high tech laser weapons from the ships store and hunted mercilessly by volunteer patrols (and since their fur and claws and bones could be worked into fine winter clothing and decorative ornaments for the homesteads by artistically-inclined settlers) there was much rejoicing at the opportunity in some quarters. The young enjoyed the challenge, the old nodded sagely at the threats arising on Paradise.
But the Wolves learned to fear the settlers after the first season of raiding and the large scale threats were ended. But they were cunning creatures and kept returning in the dead of night - and stalking loners and the most isolated farms. Clearly this underlined the need for all settlers to go armed and ensure their weapons drill and training was kept current.
The more serious problem was that there were not enough laser rifles to go around each individual farmstead - so the colony asked its artisans to develop a simpler alternative worked from the scrap metal and resources of "Freedom". In the end the colonists decided to make a simple design that could be forged from scrap metal and local materials, it was a clip-loaded slug-thrower with a pistol grip and long barrel accurate to almost 30 paces in the hands of the average settler. The prototype blueprint was given to the "commons" and everyone was encouraged to take a hand at turning the barrel on the autolathes and assembling the moving parts of the clip-mechanism with common tools and great attention to detail.
These weapons were named "Wolf Guns" by the colonists and became a very popular project in the common workshops of "Freedom". By popular acceptance it became the custom for adult colonists to carry the weapons at most times in beautiful worked leather holsters at their belts. Those with artistic skill won great acclaim amongst the colonists trading their art for raw materials and the finest food as they worked designs and beautiful symbols into custom handgrips bone-decorated with the product of slain Wolves.
Of course there were accidents, some of the guns malfunctioned, some colonists were hurt in crossfire incidents. Some even questioned whether everyone should be carrying loaded firearms in public at all.
"Maybe guns should be locked away and only used by those with the formal training to use them" a querulous ex bureaucrat suggested at a public meeting.
"Nonsense," the old woman replied.
"These guns are our right and duty to create and use. Self-defence is something we must all cherish. Each child of freedom will build a gun when they come of age. Each free man and woman will wear a Wolf Gun to symbolise their personal sovereignty and duty to confront collective threats against our brothers and sisters on this world. There can be no tyranny on a world of people confident in their own defence. You cannot bully an armed free individual - only bargain, trade and convince. That's why we're here."
And the people nodded and saw the wisdom in this. And afterwards it was the custom that each child would be taught to build his or her own Wolf Gun at their coming of age - they would customise the grip and engrave the barrel with symbolism to their taste and the weapon would be reminder of their personal power and heavy responsibility for preservation of life against the unknown.
Paradise was more dangerous than the colonists had believed. But their response was the rise to the challenge and unite in the face of alien threat and promote self-reliance that also defended the community as a whole.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.09 22:15:00 -
[4]
The Problem of the Village Elders
After many years the pattern of colonisation on Paradise had been set. The more adventurous and boldest of the settlers ranged farthest from Freedom, they established homesteads in the hinterlands, shelters in the wilds and they returned most rarely to the original landfall settlement close by the ship. While some of those who remained in Freedom came to see themselves as administrators, dignitaries, wise with age and wondering if they should be laying claim to the common land and passing the perceived advantages of possession to their children.
At the summer solstice feast a proposal was made that a council of "Elders" be established who would reside at a large residence in Freedom and would put aside much of their personal labour in favour of administrating and directing the collective activities of the colonists on their world.
Maybe there should be some "laws" established? Maybe a police-force could be empowered to protect the peace of Freedom? Maybe they could build a prison and jail wrongdoers for the good of all?
Then a child breached custom and spoke aloud to the gathering with the innocence of her years:
"What's a prison?"
Embarrassed silence met her words. Those old enough to remember Amarrian lockups and torture cells, beatings and brutality, corruption and power in the service of hierarchy and religious lies felt ashamed then and silently counted themselves blessed to have escaped that horrible past.
Those too young to know the words were curious, but only in the manner of youth questing for knowledge of terrible things to chill the blood and evoke childish shrieks of outrage for the amusement of all.
The motion to empower a council was dropped.
"We don't really need this." commented one prospective councillor. "We're all elders on Paradise." laughed another. "Prisons?" Snorted another, "What rot!"
The Mine Road
Years afterwards a discovery was made in the hills above Freedom by an eccentric colonist who had taken a liking to geology and the study of the planets deeper rock formations. Understand that most mineral deposits on Paradise were shallow and the colonials had discovered all the iron ore and common elements they required years before. But this find was different: a vastly rich vein of Palladium-46, a critical raw material in the manufacture of Amarrian laser crystals in the huge industrial complexes of Domain region. Not very useful to the colonists - but a valuable trade material and perhaps a means for Paradise to supply itself with off-world luxuries if handled correctly.
Debate raged though; with those of an age to remember the Amarr empire were wary of opening links for trade. They argued that the colonists and their children had almost everything they could need - they were self-sufficient - well defended, they even had the makings of a new interplanetary shuttle that some of the more technically-attuned young people were building in the shadow of the old Bestower at the landing point.
But others were doubtful now of the oft-repeated evils of the Amarr. Like the Wolves these things must have seemed terrible at the time but to an armed and confident society of sovereign individuals what harm could come of merely ****ering rare metals for trade items?
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.09 22:17:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 09/06/2009 22:26:37
In the end the younger settlers won the argument and agreed amongst themselves to build a mine and establish a road to transport the raw materials to Freedom. They talked of the wonderful things that would be brought back to Paradise from the stars, of how they'd teach the Amarr how to change their own lives - how they'd teach the Amarrian poor (they didn't really understand the principle of slavery) how to construct their own Wolf Guns and take responsibility for their own security and choices.
And at the last a small crew test-flew the interplanetary shuttle "Anarres" from the launchpad at Freedom into orbit where they broadcasted a celebratory song of Paradise and launched a telecoms satellite into geostationary orbit to invite star-traders and wandering space captains to come to their world and exchange tools and minerals and wealth for wealth.
Murder in the Night!
After a month the message was answered and a starship descended from the skies over Freedom broadcasting the transponder codes of a Domain licensed trader. The ship was smaller than the Bestower that the first colonists had flown into exile and release, but it was modern, efficient, and landed without difficulty on the landing field by the town commons.
The Trader was a proud man. Dressed in riches of silk and ermine, he spoke with a sneer and treated the children of Freedom as virtual savages and dried to pass off meaningless baubles and poor quality merchandise as fair trade for the valuable caskets of Palladium-46. He raised his eyebrow at the Wolf Guns, mocked the furs and worked leather belts, but he smiled altogether more nastily at the young women of the settlement. Inviting some of them to his guest quarters that evening he proposed great impropriety with indecent gestures and such drunken leering so as to cause one young woman to strike him forcefully across the face. The Trader was outraged to be disrespected in such a fashion and raised his fist to chastise the wanton savage girl only to be stopped at the sight of a Wolf Gun primed and calmly levelled at his face as she backed out and left him alone.
Later that night the Trader left Freedom and raised his ship to the stars and even the most outward-looking and curious wanderers were forced to conclude that he had been a great disappointment.
But worse would meet the dawn. The girl who had struck the Trader was found dead in a common house, shot at close range in the back with a projected energy weapon, her body burned and ruined and her mother's cloak charred black with the heat.
The people were upset, angry, many wanted vengeance and to punish this murderer, but others counselled caution and reminded the youthful that they had warned against contact with the old empire. Something was lost though. Some innocence had fled. Bad times were coming back.
The Empire from Space
It was only a matter of weeks afterwards that the shuttlecraft sighted a dozen main drive blooms during an orbital flight to place more satellites. These were far larger vessels than the Trader's ship and they moved into orbit with efficient purpose, deploying many smaller shapes around their formation as they reversed engines to attain geostationary position over the town of Freedom below.
The shuttle-crew were as excited as they were wary and opened up an open communication beam to the largest ship welcoming the new guests to Paradise and requesting they return identification and intentions. They died seconds later in the mega-pulse beams of coherent light from the main batteries of an Armageddon class Battleship as the short history of the Paradise space-movement was ended in violence.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.09 22:19:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 09/06/2009 22:20:14
On the planet below the people gathered round their radio sets and listened in growing disbelief as the voices from space announced that they were now bound slaves of the Empire and their resources would be harvested and assessed by the servants of God and nothing but total unconditional surrender would be accepted.
Anger then, the people took out their Wolf Guns and swore to avenge the deaths in orbit, they knew this world, its forests, its valleys and seas. They had built their homes and tamed the wilderness and while open to trade freely they were in nowise prepared to give up their freedom to an Empire from Space.
No common voice met the invaders, but ten thousand shouts of refusal from a thousand homesteads and farms. From the population of Freedom and its commons to the farthest research holdings and wandering camps, the free population of Paradise rejected the ultimatum and affirmed only their intention to live free and defend those freedoms come what may.
The Anarchist Tragedy
The town of Freedom was incinerated from orbit in 60 seconds of furious bombardment. Over the next hour the orbiting fleet selected and destroyed over a hundred smaller settlements targeting EM frequencies and heat sources and sweeping deadly beams across the buildings and farmland, igniting common stores and communal halls, vaporizing warehouses and transports, transforming any unprotected human within a kilometre of the impact points into skeletally-clawed studies in agonised death. Sixty years settlement burned in sixty minutes.
Then the Empire from Space transmitted again. Speaking of God's mercy and the wisdom of the holy text they called on the survivors of Paradise to surrender again. They would be taken up into the ships and trained as field slaves and learn the mysteries of the divine on the estates of holders and superior Amarrian aristocrats.
The voices were fewer now. Many tens of thousands were dead. Others were wise enough to realize how the orbital murderers were targeting their bombardment. But others simply didn't care - again the challenge and refusal, the free people preferred to die free than submit to this strange fate unknown outside of weird storybook horrors.
Wolf Guns were fired at the sky as the beams descended again and again like summer lightening magnified a thousand-fold. Houses burned and the horizon was red with embers and killing glow and the dawn when it came was marred by smoke and carnage as far as the eye could see.
I'd like to say that the people fought back and won. (But they didn't)
I'd like to say they fought to the last and made the enemy pay a heavy price. (But they didn't)
What happened was what always happens.
The Invaders used their firepower to scatter and reduce organized resistance. The ground troops in power armour rooted out the remainder and assembled work parties of the demoralized survivors to put out the fires and build slave-pens and walls. Some carried on the fight of course, scattered gangs of young Wolf-Gunners who used their knowledge of the planet to evade capture as long as they could. Some invaders even died. The Wolf Guns could kill an unarmoured trooper as easily as a laser could. But quickly and surely the "rebellion" was quashed and the invaders felt confident enough to bring in offworld slaves to work the mines and extract Palladium-46 for the empire.
This then was the true anarchist tragedy on Paradise.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.09 22:22:00 -
[7]
The Letter
Last year the Star Fraction was fighting in Providence region as part of the Terminus-Est campaign against the holders of Sev3rance alliance. Our war was in effect an insurgency against a stronger sitting power. They had jump-bridges and cyno-jammers, huge fleets of standing militia and all the advantages of terrain and preparation. We had our cloaks and cunning, our guerrilla methodology and the message of hope that won support and information from the local populations capsuleer or baseline. One evening following a great battle in KBP7-G our depleted squadron of Recon cruisers needed to flee system and seek safety away from the Providence main battle-group. We split ourselves into single ships and I jumped on to DNR-7M. Once immediate pursuit was discounted I took a closer look at what we had categorized as a Imperial mining outpost at DNR-7M/III.
The world was beautiful. Temperate, breathable, two main continents. EM readings showed habitation/industrial presence in northern latitude and curiosity winning over my caution I brought my Rapier class ship down several kilometres from the mines.
It was as expected. Several thousand 3rd generation+ slaves in pens. A garrison of a few hundred troops. Small bureaucracy in place. Landing pads, warehouses, prefab accommodations for free commercial traders. The place was locked down tight and the geosats slaved into the constellation communications net. I elected to wait out the night with systems down but on visual sweeps my watch officers discovered evidence of ruins and previous habitation deeper in the forestry. I authorized a covert perimeter patrol of fraction infiltrators.
Shortly before dawn we received the recall code from allied command net - the Providence fleet had disbursed and it was time to lift. Our stealth marines had returned and amongst the findings were solid evidence of high yield bombardment in the last twenty years, signs of a insurgency (apparently failed), widespread pre-imperial settlement (mostly ruined) and a couple of artefacts recovered from a woodland bunker. Two things that have had a profound impact on my thinking since:
The first, a letter on a heavy scrap of parchment
"My name is Alexander Wren. I am the last of my blood. I will not live long. Since the night the skies burned I have seen my friends die until only I remain. I hear the screams from those captured. I see the cages where they are taken. I kill my enemy when I can and run when I must. I made my gun when I was thirteen summers and I never saw a Wolf outside of story books. I carved monsters into the grip because I hoped I might have a chance to fight them. Now I have seen the Wolves and they look like men but they are not men. I have killed some but they have killed more of the Free People. Now they have killed me. My name is Alexander Wren, I was born Free, I lived Free, I die Free. My father was an anarchist. He was a good man and taught me well."
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.09 22:23:00 -
[8]
The second, a Wolf Gun
This was a beautiful thing, handmade pistol-carbine, engraved images of fantastic beasts along the barrel with wondrous twists and swirls of arcane symbolism all round the bone-carved handgrip. I weighted it, sighted down the length. It felt very heavy, very real. This thing was made by a child taught freedom at his father's knee. It was a weapon and a symbol. It had survived and its message reached me across the years while its people hadn't. It was a Wolf Gun.
Redemption
I returned to DNR-7M/III (Paradise) several times over the coming months. As the war turned in Providence and Sev3rance were forced to the defensive, often under siege in their own systems, we had more freedom of our own to run those spacelanes and we used the opportunity to liberate many slave-colonies and internment camps from the borderland constellations. From DNR-7M/III we rescued almost 500 original settlers and direct descendents alongside several thousand 3rd generation work slaves. Many of these were mindlocked, or traumatised beyond treatment. Vitoc addiction, disease, malnutrition, exposure and exhaustion had culled the populations and killed much of the oral history of the settlement. But enough had survived with memories intact to trace the events and fate of the colony.
Some of those we liberated chose to relocate to the Republic. Others were hospitalized. Some of the younger survivors swore vengeance and joined the fledgling Tribal Liberation Force, others fell to organized crime and would fly with the Angels. And more than a few joined the crews of Star Fraction vessels and saw some kindred spirit in our ideals and philosophy.
But I have kept the Wolf Gun and the letter. I used a shipboard nanoforge to fabricate the ammunition it uses and I've test fired it and gained a measure of its balance.
One day I'll kill a man with it and perhaps one more spirit will rest in Paradise.
It's the least I can do.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Kostantin Mort
Naqam Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.06.09 23:47:00 -
[9]
Too long; didn't read. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.09 23:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kostantin Mort Too long; didn't read.
Too short attention span? Can't say I care for your opinion then. But do have a nice day anyways.
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Spyra Gryra
Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2009.06.10 00:04:00 -
[11]
This truly is a tragedy.
The Spyra Gryra says Hello :))) |
Kostantin Mort
Naqam Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.06.10 00:08:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Kostantin Mort on 10/06/2009 00:09:14 The first "parable" was bad enough but you truly conquer the heights of tedium with this particular piece.
As for your retort, it is indeed funny how times change. I've become a champion of transhumanism and hence joined what I once hated, and you have done a similar transformation: you are nothing but a demagogue that clutches at straws, replaying the wars of old in order to relive past glory. You have become what you hated, a toothless forum warrior with nothing substantial to bring forward except for your droning, pointless, boring walls of text. |
Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.10 01:06:00 -
[13]
The story tickled my thoughts as I read, then my brain bled tears of tragic discontent as I reached the end. You steal both my interest and emotions, dear Jade, please put up a contract for their return. I will pay a ransom of a week's duty should you be so benevolent to allow me to help you strike apart the fanciful imaginations of the misanthropic monsters that have been created by virulent thoughts and millennia of fermentation.
I am a slave no longer to my own self or any other for I dream my own dreams and now riddle my own solutions. I am wealthy with thirst and desperate for a stationary evolution... it is the delightful plague I wish to spread to others, idealistic contagions and terrifying reality. It's so much less frightening when you stand atop the ignorance and see the smiles below proud of what little has yet filled their skulls.
Oh! I have found an emotion you haven't taken yet! Arrogance, drive me forward, I am prepared for the parting vacuum. Warp Drive Active. --- [Don't Think Differently, Think Critically.] |
Lord Ira
Tribal Core
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Posted - 2009.06.10 01:40:00 -
[14]
Very compelling. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.10 01:58:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 10/06/2009 01:59:34
Originally by: Kostantin Mort The first "parable" was bad enough but you truly conquer the heights of tedium with this particular piece.
I thought you said it was too long for you to read? Now you think to offer "literary criticism"? What a strange man you have become Kostantine to believe that I might care what a Sansha drone thinks apt?
Quote: As for your retort, it is indeed funny how times change. I've become a champion of transhumanism and hence joined what I once hated, and you have done a similar transformation: you are nothing but a demagogue that clutches at straws, replaying the wars of old in order to relive past glory. You have become what you hated, a toothless forum warrior with nothing substantial to bring forward except for your droning, pointless, boring walls of text.
Such bitterness and rage from a creature supposedly free of the wasteful emotions of passion. It seems you haven't completely lost the narrow-minded faux-piety that led you to grovel at prayer with the other nationalists just yet.
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Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.10 02:28:00 -
[16]
Sweet and salty beads of sweat roll down this thread in fear of the truth. Lighten up, Sansha Baby, the right way isn't the only way left but you are efficiently eliminating the alternatives. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.10 11:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Aphoxakhan Sweet and salty beads of sweat roll down this thread in fear of the truth. Lighten up, Sansha Baby, the right way isn't the only way left but you are efficiently eliminating the alternatives.
I honestly think something has gone a little bit wrong with his mind-control implants. Ordinarily Sansha-drones are "freed" from the human corruptions of personal irritation and loathing the better to worship the perfect symmetry of their master's design. Perhaps its the melding of godslave nationalism and transhuman submission to hierarchy that triggers the reactions in this one. Who knows? I imagine we'll have to await the next stage of his journey into pirate cynic to find out.
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Kostantin Mort
Naqam Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.06.10 12:12:00 -
[18]
It is really telling that the only thing that you can bring against me is empty "ad hominems". Please, do continue with your infantile insults, they amuse me. I am more free and enlightened than you'll ever be, as well as much more succesful in my aims. ------ Innovation is a product of madness. |
Bad Harlequin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.10 12:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kostantin Mort It is really telling that the only thing that you can bring against me is empty "ad hominems". Please, do continue with your infantile insults, they amuse me. I am more free and enlightened than you'll ever be, as well as much more succesful in my aims.
translation engine activated:
Originally by: Kostantin Mort NA NA NA NA NA I CAN'T HEAR YOU NA NA NA
Sorry, old foe, but calling you on your inconsistencies isn't ad hominem. Neither is catching your slippage on "tl;dr" combined with "tedium."
But please, do keep trying! It's always interesting to watch someone coping with "I am free!" programming.
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Tecam Hund
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.10 12:31:00 -
[20]
Tecam Hund wipes a tear.
You are making a ruthless bastard cry, Jade. How embarrassing. |
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Simon Coal
Gallente The Grass Spiders
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Posted - 2009.06.10 13:05:00 -
[21]
If this story is accurate in it's representation of how Star Fraction views anarchism, I'll have to rethink a few positions... I hadn't expected so much concern for the well-being of others.
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Kostantin Mort
Naqam Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.06.10 13:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Bad Harlequin
Originally by: Kostantin Mort It is really telling that the only thing that you can bring against me is empty "ad hominems". Please, do continue with your infantile insults, they amuse me. I am more free and enlightened than you'll ever be, as well as much more succesful in my aims.
translation engine activated:
Originally by: Kostantin Mort NA NA NA NA NA I CAN'T HEAR YOU NA NA NA
Sorry, old foe, but calling you on your inconsistencies isn't ad hominem. Neither is catching your slippage on "tl;dr" combined with "tedium."
But please, do keep trying! It's always interesting to watch someone coping with "I am free!" programming.
I like how people that don't anything about me think that I'm some sort of BEEP BOOP I'M A ROBOT. Maybe, just maybe, I was referring to that as the ad hominems rather than Miss Constantine calling me out for "inconsistancies" that can be rationalised by even a brain-dead idiot such as yourself by means of "I skimmed the text".
But I guess you are a better man than me in the end. I guess that Jade didn't avoid my retort because she knows deep down that she has accomplished nothing at all in the past years. I should feel bad that I got called out by an ex-Ushra'Khan non-entity.
Anyway, continue doing your selective reading, it has helped you so far. |
Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 14:53:00 -
[23]
Ruthless rebellion personified, Sansha Baby. You are gnashing with bloody teeth but you know not what for you gnash at... Relax, take some time, you have eternity to find peace and well-being. --- [Don't Think Differently, Think Critically.] |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 15:59:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 10/06/2009 16:03:12
Originally by: Kostantin Mort It is really telling that the only thing that you can bring against me is empty "ad hominems". Please, do continue with your infantile insults, they amuse me. I am more free and enlightened than you'll ever be, as well as much more succesful in my aims.
Why would I not attack "the man" when the man in question has decided to voluntarily submit himself to neutral re-programming to suit somebody else's grand design? You are the very antithesis of Freedom Kostantin. You have been conjured up by this true story of a real struggle for Freedom to perform like a puppet-on-demand to illustrate a flawed path to imaginary freedom through neural-alteration and chemical happy juice.
Why would I not attack "the man" who announced in one post he had not read the story then betrayed the fact he had in the second. Why insist I treat this "man" as a neutral voice with disappassionate reserve when in actuality I despise all that he stands for and all of the path he has chosen.
I view your choices with very human loathing Kostantin. You have voluntarily given up without a fight what the anarchists of Paradise chose to die for.
A more pathetic fate I couldn't imagine.
Originally by: Kostantin Mort I guess that Jade didn't avoid my retort because she knows deep down that she has accomplished nothing at all in the past years.
Hated by my enemies. Respected by my allies. Still in full control of my own mind and faculties.
Thats three achievements over you monsieur drone.
The fight continues. (But then you wouldn't know anything that would you? Since in the Kostantin Mort playbook when the going gets tough the tough resign and turn their coats.)
|
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 16:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Simon Coal If this story is accurate in it's representation of how Star Fraction views anarchism, I'll have to rethink a few positions... I hadn't expected so much concern for the well-being of others.
The story is accurate. And more to the point, you shouldn't believe everything written about the Fraction by the Amarrian nationalists. They really aren't very good with the truth.
The Star Fraction movement is not an elitest cabal of super-powered technologically-enabled immortals careless of human life. We fight for the future of humanity and the chance for everyone to take a better future from the ashes of the decadent imperialist past.
We believe that the technologies utilized by the capsule-caste today can become agents of revolutionary change in their own right tomorrow. The burning scanner is now public domain, cloning has become commonplace. How long before the lies about capsule attunement are revealed as the falsehoods we know they are?
In the skies we see a thousand thousand stars and an infinite potential for the future prosperity of mankind. But the story of Paradise is a warning to us all.
Archbishop said it best in one of his recent sermons actually. He said he considered the Amarr desire to rule was an immutable law of human nature. If we take him at his word the truth is there will never be peace or freedom within reach of the Amarrian war machine since those beclawed and bitter old men need to dominate as surely as the free captains and their planetside kin need air to breath. Neither can exist without this critical raw material so it is no surprise that we have concluded that Amarr must die that all people be free.
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Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 16:27:00 -
[26]
Oh, Jericho Daisy, invincible to the assault of imaginary faces...
Sansha Baby is upset, but does not need to be. Jericho Daisy and Sansha Baby should try being friends, the opposites can learn so much from each other and make both better for it.
It is good to see Carbonated Grass questioning the answers. You may find us more palatable than expected, Simon Simon. --- [Don't Think Differently, Think Critically.] |
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 18:38:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Simon Coal If this story is accurate in it's representation of how Star Fraction views anarchism, I'll have to rethink a few positions... I hadn't expected so much concern for the well-being of others.
As an addendum to Jade's response, I will give my own brief perspective on this. It is summed up in the observation that short-term altruism is often perfectly consonant with long-term self-interest.
For example, if a group wishes to eradicate disease among its members, it naturally will investigate the malady, develop treatments and in time possibly a vaccination or prophylactic against the disease. However, a problem arises when other groups of people, not strictly speaking the concern of the first group, are found to carry the disease. The risk arises of re-infection from these outside groups or even mutation of the disease, and more virulent strains arising in those groups, which could wreak havoc among the first group. The sensible strategy would then be one of short-term altruism: manufacture and supply the required drugs and so forth, provide the necessary medical personnel and eradicate the disease as widely as possible in every group of people. The long-term self-interest of such action need not I think be elaborated.
In a roughly analogous manner the concern of anarchists that everyone should be free, and our working towards that goal, is often altruistic in the short-term but most surely works to our own interest in the long-term. This has been so for all anarchists, libertarians and other lovers of freedom and autonomy throughout the ages. It is all the more cogent as we recognise that our generation and succeeding generations will live for a very long time indeed.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 19:03:00 -
[28]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite In a roughly analogous manner the concern of anarchists that everyone should be free, and our working towards that goal, is often altruistic in the short-term but most surely works to our own interest in the long-term. This has been so for all anarchists, libertarians and other lovers of freedom and autonomy throughout the ages. It is all the more cogent as we recognise that our generation and succeeding generations will live for a very long time indeed.
You are too right, Variety Pack Strategist. The invisible disease that is fought by The Lovely Anarchists is extremely infectious and requires surgical care to cut away the maligned brains cells of history's brand. |
Sky Grunthor
Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Balance of Judgment
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 19:05:00 -
[29]
Something that I find quite common in the underlying subtext of opposition argument is a misrepresentation of what The Star Fraction stands for.
They label the Star Fraction as Anarchists and in doing so make the implication that they believe not in the rule of law but rather in the rule of personal tyranny, the rule of the bully. SF are clearly not this. What they do believe it seems is rather the rule of individual responsibility. The responsibility to guard your own freedom. In truth you can not remove the concept of responsibility from freedom, they are fundamentally entwined. If you attempt it, you are not defining freedom, you are defining tyranny.
This parable, this tragedy, is the story of the success of tyranny.
Fight on SF |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 21:50:00 -
[30]
It is most revealing that in this story several of the problems this new society struggled with were not solved. Rather, they were solved by convincing people that they weren't real problems.
The Anarchists were convinced that they didn't need to specialize because someone yelled that specialization is a 'one-trick pony and only of value to insects'.
The Anarchists that wanted liked to have their flock graze in the vicnity were convinced that 'one kilometer is nothing', and that walking a long time is meaningless because 'freedom is everywhere' and that their tiredness would not matter because 'freedom is a state of mind'.
The anarchists were convinced that gun accidents shouldn't be prevented because they were 'their right and duty', no measures were taking to prevent harm because the guns were 'a symbol'
The anarchists were convinced not to have a council of experts discuss solutions because 'they didn't really need it', and because they 'were all experts'.
What is most surprising about these events is not that these people agreed to the ramblings of an old woman, no, the most surprising about ms. Constantine's parable was that these anarchists took her arguments *on faith*. No factual explanations were given, no logical arguments offered. They were simply told that a kilometer more or less was irrelevant and believed it. They were told the danger of everyone having guns was irrelevant because of duty and symbolism, and they believed it.
If that really what anarchists are like, then it would likely lead to this story. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
|
Kostantin Mort
Naqam Exalted.
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 22:01:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Kostantin Mort on 10/06/2009 22:54:17
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Hated by my enemies. Respected by my allies. Still in full control of my own mind and faculties.
Thats three achievements over you monsieur drone.
The fight continues. (But then you wouldn't know anything that would you? Since in the Kostantin Mort playbook when the going gets tough the tough resign and turn their coats.)
You truly know so little about me that it really perplexes me that you think you do. For a start, I have never had my brain "re-programmed", although I know where you got those crazy ideas from. I guess I should do likewise, and take advice about you from the Amarr, since you seem to give me the same courtesy. But you see, I'm not stupid, so I know that such a report would be biased. You instead, seem to take the lies that have been spouted by Aria Jenneth as gospel.
As for your pitiful list of accomplishment, well done I guess. I have managed to achieve much the same, although you do not seem to be aware of them. Unfortunately for you, I actually manage to destroy my enemies instead of creating empty rethoric about them. Even you acknowledge that you have fared little in the last few years, since otherwise you would have retorted to me on that point: it is clear that even in your mind, the dream is fading to nothingness.
You insult me yet you know so very little about me. Did I resign when I had my disease? I did not. I kept fighting. I kept fighting against PIE. I kept fighting in Skarkon. I kept fighting when your ex-fractionists in Stimulus attacked and guess what? They are now our allies. But truth and reality was never your strong point, Miss Constantine, you are far too pre-occupied with living in your fantasy dreamland populated with impossible scenarios of anarchist utopias. I have a dream of an Utopia, Miss Constantine, a transhumanist Utopia were we will not be hunted down like beasts and that Utopia is Sansha, the Nation that was illegally destroyed by the Empires thanks to their jealousy and fear of what a transhumanist nation would mean.
And I'm glad that you view me with human loathing, because you are nothing but a piddly, disgusting, weak human. I am not emotionless, but at least I am not blind to the fact that the real threat to transhumanism is, and always will be, humans.
You are, in a word, pathetic. In the end, Star Fraction is not even about the dream, or anarchism, or transhumanism, or any of the lies that you feed your pathetic, mewling little dirt bag "free-captains". In the end, Star Fraction is about you, Miss Constantine and your constant need for acknowledgement and recognition. Why else, would you chase up people that call you irrelevant? Why else would you post your long, rambling posts on IGS? Why indeed. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 22:56:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kostantin Mort You truly know so little about me that it really perplexes me that you think you do.
I know everything about you that is worth knowing Kostantine. You are a failed nationalist. A failed pirate and a failed zombie by all accounts. Even with the benefit of personality adjustment and mood enhancers you can't seem to shake the urge to jealously stalk those who have defeated you in past incarnations.
Quote: As for your pitiful list of accomplishment, well done I guess. I have managed to achieve much the same, although you do not seem to be aware of them.
I'd hazard few are aware of your accomplishments Kostantin.
Quote: Even you acknowledge that you have fared little in the last few years, since otherwise you would have retorted to me on that point...
You still use the Amarrian nationalist mode of debate! How quaint. Not everything revolves around your silly little accusations Kostantin. If I ignore some of your points its because they are ridiculous not because they have merit you silly old man
Quote: And I'm glad that you view me with human loathing, because you are nothing but a piddly, disgusting, weak human. I am not emotionless, but at least I am not blind to the fact that the real threat to transhumanism is, and always will be, humans.
I'll wager you still have some of that Amarrian nationalist drive "to rule" somewhere in that mindset Kostantin. Puling Godslaves never fall too far from the tree of myth-worshipping hierarchy.
Quote: You are, in a word, pathetic. In the end, Star Fraction is not even about the dream, or anarchism, or transhumanism, or any of the lies that you feed your pathetic, mewling little dirt bag "free-captains". In the end, Star Fraction is about you, Miss Constantine and your constant need for acknowledgement and recognition. Why else, would you chase up people that call you irrelevant? Why else would you post your long, rambling posts on IGS? Why indeed.
Such anger and bitterness. I hadn't realized I'd hurt you so badly. Still, you did have it coming.
|
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 22:59:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Merdaneth It is most revealing that in this story several of the problems this new society struggled with were not solved. Rather, they were solved by convincing people that they weren't real problems.
Thats because they weren't real problems. And this was the true story you built your lies upon. I know it must hurt you to realize this Merdaneth - but real people solve the real problems - not the hypothetical nonsense you Amarrians produce to support the crumbling edifice of your ambition "to rule".
|
Kostantin Mort
Naqam Exalted.
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 23:18:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
I know everything about you that is worth knowing Kostantine. You are a failed nationalist. A failed pirate and a failed zombie by all accounts. Even with the benefit of personality adjustment and mood enhancers you can't seem to shake the urge to jealously stalk those who have defeated you in past incarnations.
Ah yes, I have been mysteriously stalking you for the past year and a half because I secretly envy you and your accomplishments. Oh wait, no I haven't. I am proud to be a failed nationalist, I couldn't wish for me. I do not understand how I am a failed pirate (even if pirates are just labels created by unjust and unlawful empires that even you are fighting against) and I'm certainly not a zombie by any means. But keep letting those insults out, they certainly do amuse.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
I'd hazard few are aware of your accomplishments Kostantin.
People that need to know about them are aware of them. Everyone else is too unimportant for me to care about. I don't need to wave a flag and say "LOOK AT ME EVERYONE, LOOK AT ME, I'M IMPORTANT" like you do. Who gives a damn if some low-life planet dweller knows what I've done? I certainly don't.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
You still use the Amarrian nationalist mode of debate! How quaint. Not everything revolves around your silly little accusations Kostantin. If I ignore some of your points its because they are ridiculous not because they have merit you silly old man
What have you done then? Please do tell, I am all ears. This is no accusation, this is a simple question. Oh wait, you already answered that, didn't you. You have been hated by people that already hate you anyway, well done I guess. You are respected by your sycophantic associates: congratulations. You are still in control of your own mind and faculties: debatable.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Such anger and bitterness. I hadn't realized I'd hurt you so badly. Still, you did have it coming.
In some way, you helped me Jade, even in the slightest way. But there's very little you can do to hurt me and in the end I'm just having my fun. I hope you are content in your ignorance. ------ Innovation is a product of madness. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 23:43:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kostantin Mort I don't need to wave a flag and say "LOOK AT ME EVERYONE, LOOK AT ME, I'M IMPORTANT"
By the evidence of this thread it rather seems that you do...
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Kostantin Mort
Naqam Exalted.
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 23:51:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Kostantin Mort I don't need to wave a flag and say "LOOK AT ME EVERYONE, LOOK AT ME, I'M IMPORTANT"
By the evidence of this thread it rather seems that you do...
Oh yes, how silly of me. One entire year with barely any posting on IGS and I do it today for fun and all of my work is undone. You have truly bested me, Miss Constantine. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 00:07:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Kostantin Mort
Oh yes, how silly of me. One entire year with barely any posting on IGS and I do it today for fun and all of my work is undone. You have truly bested me, Miss Constantine.
One whole year with no posting and you splurge out with 24 hours worth of vitriolic nonsense against a thread you told us all was "too long" for you to read in the first place? You know I think I'll accept your surrender right now and save you further humiliation.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Rejected Enlightenment
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 00:14:00 -
[38]
As soon as he heard one of his comrades scream ōSQUAD BROKEN!", Eduardo the Space Marine knew that he was doomed. He charged forth in a panic, firing his plasma gun wildly into the air. Somehow the orks had surrounded them! EduardoĘs teammates ran shrieking into the depths of the abandoned tanker, the grunting lustful orks in swift pursuit. Soon Eduardo was alone.
The brawny Space Marine collapsed against a wall, panting raggedly. His plasma gun had nearly overheated, and his com units were malfunctioning. No use even if they worked. By now, his whole squad was surely dead.
Lost in his thoughts, Eduardo did not hear the ork creeping up on him. Stunned by a blow to the head, Eduardo was thrown violently to the floor. The ork grunted in amusement, bending down and straddling his body. Dazed, Eduardo turned his head to look up at his enemy. The ork fellow was huge, well muscled and even attractive for his species. Right now the orkĘs vibrant green skin was flushing dark in arousal. Eduardo whimpered as he realized what was about to happen.
Summoning up his powers as a Blood Angel, Eduardo bellowed in the Black Rage and began to flail about under the ork. The ork simply grunting, riding the panicked Space Marine like a rodeo bull. Already weakened, Eduardo simply did not have the strength to dislodge the much heavier ork.
All that thrashing around served to arouse the ork further. His name was Gurk, and the friction as the puny Marine flopped around between his muscular thighs was giving him quite a respectable hard-on. Gurk had meant to save the Marine for his own squad, but he couldnĘt wait any longer. Whipping out his own plasma gun, Gurk seared off the back of the MarineĘs armor, leaving his shining buttocks bare to the orkĘs lustful gaze.
Eduardo moaned in fear, his virgin asscheeks clapping firmly together to deny the ork entrance. Gurk simply laughed, ripping off his crude orkish loincloth to reveal a thick green meat pole, nearly 12 inches long. The ork stuck one calloused finger down his throat, bringing up a thick vomit slurry which spattered down into the crack of EduardoĘs ass. Smearing the foul vomit around with one brutish paw, Gurk prepared the Space MarineĘs tender anus for playtime.
Much to GurkĘs frustration, his **** was simply too large to fit inside EduardoĘs tight man ****. He grunted furiously, screaming ōWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!" in his deep orkish voice as he battered his ****meat against EduardoĘs tightly sealed pleasure ring. Suddenly the Space MarineĘs portal gave way, and the swollen head of GurkĘs **** popped through into the forbidden halls of his anus. GurkĘs pleased snort was drowned out by EduardoĘs scream of agony.
The ork began to pump away in earnest, his bulging muscular hips and thighs slamming brutally against EduardoĘs ass. His heavy, furry balls slapped against the humanĘs ass merrily, creating a calypso that pleased Gurk mightily. Blood, a thin smear of *****, and GurkĘs own oily yellow pre-****lubricated EduardoĘs ******* until it was as hot and slippery as GurkĘs own motherĘs ****.
Poor Eduardo was swiftly going into shock from the pain. His mind growing dim, he screamed ōSQUAD BROKEN! SQUAD BROKEN!" over and over as the ork thrust brutally into his bruised insides. The orkĘs massive **** had caused a large degree of internal damage, and Eduardo was close to passing out from blood loss and fear. If his squad didnĘt find him soon, Eduardo knew that he would soon die. His poor plasma gun discharged into the floor one final time, overheating from a mix of pleasure and agonizing pain.
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Rejected Enlightenment
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 00:14:00 -
[39]
The Space Marine had been a good **** for Gurk, but he needed something special to truly finish. GurkĘs heavy balls drew up close to his body, and he felt himself tensing, about to cum. As GurkĘs thick semen roiled up out of his **** and into EduardoĘs battered body, the ork slammed his powerful hands shut around the MarineĘs neck. With a vicious jerk up and back, the ork crushed the MarineĘs windpipe and vertebrae, swiftly ending his life. EduardoĘs anus clamped shut around GurkĘs ****, the painful tightness almost causing the ork to pass out.
Gurk roared out as he climaxed in the dead Marine, his beautiful green **** pumping load after load of thick ork ****um into EduardoĘs lower intestine. The ork pulled out as EduardoĘs anus slowly relaxed, releasing GurkĘs **** with a wet sucking sound. Gurk used the sleeve of the MarineĘs uniform to wipe the thick s****of blood, **** and ****from his swiftly withering ork meat. With a satisfied grunt, Gurk walked slowly away from the Marine.
EduardoĘs corpse lay cooling on the floor of the tanker, the charred remnants of his uniform stained dark with the foul fluids of both the ork and himself.
Squad broken.
FAKE EDIT: My post is till better than Jade's.
|
Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 00:22:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Aphoxakhan on 11/06/2009 00:22:45
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Kostantin Mort
Woof woof! Rawr bark bark! Woof! Whimper... WOOF WOOF BARK!
Mereoowww! HISSSS! HISSSSSSS!
You've chased the Daisy up the tree, Sansha Baby. No chance for the snack now... It tells your foe everything when you run screaming and gnashing. You've been domesticated, you lost the prowess.
Sweet Jericho Daisy, you put too much effort. You'll find yourself embarrassed if you let Sansha Baby drive you into a trap. He's tenacious but dauntless, though all he really wants is a hug.
Share some cake, you cute bubbly, egg shell toddlers. The more you rage the more I see that is comparable. --- [Don't Think Differently, Think Critically.] |
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Tecam Hund
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 00:25:00 -
[41]
You alright there, Aphox?
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Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 00:33:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Tecam Hund You alright there, Aphox?
I am incredible and spicy, take it easy with me, I may give you a gastrointestinal ailment.
I only try to clarify the real issue our friends must deal with; you only pull the hair of the one you like! --- [Don't Think Differently, Think Critically.] |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 00:39:00 -
[43]
Where did the Star Fraction go wrong? Amarrian nationalists such as Archbishop would claim that Star Fraction's chief flaw is one of ideology and that their failure is one of faith. This is flatly rejected by the success of other revolutionary/anarchist organizations such as Rote Kapelle, Exalted, Eternal Rapture, Cry Havoc, Veto Corp and The Guristas Associates, to name a few. Others would say that it was a loss of style, and this argument has some grain of truth attached to it. There was a time when Star Fraction was known for daring assaults and that enabled a few skilled combatants to disrupt and overcome much larger and theoretically better armed organizations. Perhaps taking the wrong lesson from their tournament defeat of the once-proud Band of Brothers alliance with a mere 10 Thorax-class cruisers, Star Fraction now utilizes Tech 1 cruisers at nearly every opportunity, despite their ability to provide their members with very reasonably priced Tech 2 hulls. While this may have been a result of recent battles, in which Star Fraction fleets managed to destroy only Tech 1 hostile ships for the loss of their own Tech 2 ships, this would also seem to be the wrong lesson to have been learned. While Star Fraction's new expendable-ship doctrine might improve their efficiency ratings on paper, it does so at the cost of the style and panache that was once Star Fraction's hallmark. Other thinkers would claim that Star Fraction's "NRDS" engagement policy is the cause of their woes. This is a violent galaxy and to restrict the use of force only to those whose organizations have offered violence to members of the Star Fraction is short-sighted, counter-productive and overly sensitive to the lives of immortals and the property of the fabulously rich. In the age of the capsuleer, the destruction of millions (or even billions) of interstellar kredits is only a temporary setback. To inflict minor losses of wealth on hostile entities is to accomplish nothing, when such wealth can be replenished in less time than it takes to destroy it. While it is quite possible to inflict such deep and serious financial blows on one's enemies to preclude them from replacing such losses promptly, if at all, can have a debilitating effect on an organization, the rate at which Star Fraction has destroyed hostile vessels does not speak to their success on this matter. |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 00:39:00 -
[44]
Moreover, a respect for human life, while seemingly noble, is not shared by the vast majority of combatants in Star Fraction's area of operations. If one's enemies (or even casual passers-by) are willing to sacrifice their own lives and the lives of their crew for profit or pleasure, to hold to a respect for those lives is nothing short of regressive. Even were it not so, diplomatic logistics required to establish and maintain a directory of hostiles is a monumentally soul-crushing task, only to allow the Freecaptains to launch attacks on individuals who had no intention of malice, only based on the actions of a few pilots in the distant past (and in many cases, by a lone pilot who has long-since departed the organization in question.) Still others would say that Star Fraction has fallen so far due to its leadership, and this also has some truth to it. Many members, having grown tired of Freecaptain Constantine's erratic behavior, unstable personality and unwillingness to allow the alliance to evolve led to more than one ideological and corporate split of the Freespace movement. Once-valued members such as Bacchanalian, Sakura Nihil, Scorpio Dantes, Centra Spike, Spyra Gyra, Svenjabi Xiang, Nidia Masters, Stiehl Asior, Tyzzara, Celedris, Atandros, Aeaus, Selim, Tatsue Nuko, Ituralde, Cassius Longinus, Nestor Laurentis, Jonny Damordred and yours truly, to name a few, have all been swept aside by the tide of Constantine incompetence; when the tide returned, it brought only mediocrity with it. Exceptions do exist and I would be remiss to deny that Star Fraction still counts many highly competent and clever pilots among its ranks; pilots that any first-rate organization (such as Rote Kapelle) would be proud to include in its ranks. However, even these proud captains have been unable to reverse Star Fraction's rapid descent into obscurity. |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 00:40:00 -
[45]
Which brings us to Star Fraction's greatest failure: lack of relevance. In the not-so-distant past, alliances facing the prospect of a war declaration from the Star Fraction would begin collapsing before even the first shot was fired. Star Fraction's leadership would set what seemed to be incredibly ambitious goals and then achieve those goals in the space of a week, with almost no danger of failure. The list of once-proud corporations that alliances who abandoned the nationalist agenda of their imperialist slavemasters was longer than one can conveniently list in this brief missive. On paper, the Star Fraction attempts to carry on this tradition in their year-long offensive against imperialist militias. However, to claim that the defection of a small percentage of indifferently skilled and poorly motivated militia corporations is an achievement on par with the destruction of the once-powerful and influential Kimotoro Directive is laughable. Instead, Star Fraction is engaged in a desultory series of skirmishes, using outdated hardware in a half-hearted manner. If any other alliance engaged in the same tactics, with the same results, no serious military expert would claim that their efforts were worthy of note. Militia corporations are, with some few exceptions, anemic and fickle in their support of their sponsored empire. A large percentage of them are no more than sanctioned privateers, if not outright outlaws and brigands (not that this is to be despised; piracy is a noble profession). No one militia corporation, or indeed, any collection of militia corporations against which Star Fraction has declared hostilities has been powerful enough or organized to challenge them in a meaninful way. The lasting effects of Star Fraction's campaign against the Caldari militia can best be summed up by recent reports that State loyalists have managed to defeat (albeit temporarily) their Gallente rivals in every contested system. One could argue that Star Fraction's campaign of aggression only honed the Statists' ability to project force. One can only speculate what will become of the Republic, should Star Fraction's campaign against the Amarrian bloc have the same effect in the long term. In conclusion, there are no conclusive answers for Star Fraction. In a kinder, more logical world, the failure of Star Fraction to project power and to showcase the inherent superiority of the Freespace ideology would lead its leadership to adjust its policies and to even midwife an evolution of the Freespace ideal. However, this is neither a kind nor a logical world and it appears that Star Fraction will continue to limp ever-downward into obscurity and irrelevance. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 01:46:00 -
[46]
I think it speaks for the power of the tale told in this thread that its attracted near frenzied howls of primal outrage from Sansha trueslaves and bitter ex-comrades turned roving cynical killers.
And its fairly clear there is no love lost between Devilish Ledaux and myself and there is a personal feud here. I suspect the majority of the names he conjures above do not support his sentiments and are frankly embarrassed by his continued attempts to cause rifts between Stimulus and The Star Fraction.
As for the name and reputation of the Star Fraction we've had plenty of condemnation this evening from people who should know better. Suffice to say if I had such low opinion of the combat prowess of my blood enemies I'd not stay my hand from the declaration of war to put the final knife into their heart. Speaks volumes for the truth behind the unwise words that these craven dogs prefer to bark behind their fences than seek honest battle in the spacelanes.
Unlike Devilish I'll say no more than that. For the memory of the man he once was I'll turn away from his provocations and back to the topic of the thread.
|
Kostantin Mort
Naqam Exalted.
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 03:36:00 -
[47]
BEEP BOOP I'M A ROBOT
Showing outstanding ignorance once again, another insult is piled on to me: if you call me a trueslave, then you really have no idea what they truly are. Maybe you should research?
Also, yes, you got me, I was inconsitant with the fact that I might have read (some would say "skimmed") a few tiny parts of your story, enough to get a gist of it. Oh god, how will I ever live with myself knowing that when I said "tl;dr" I was being a dirty, filthy lier.
Once again, I thank you for your overwhelming logic. You are indeed my blood-sworn enemy, an enemy that I have seethingly hated for so long that I couldn't bear any longer to ignore you completely like a usually do and instead couldn't help myself from writing furious, bile-filled words here on IGS. Either that or I was just bored today. Logic dictates that it was the former, since I've been such a long-stated enemy of yours truly.
And finally, you are completely correct on your analysis that I should show an entity that I consider completely infantile and insignificant as worthy of a war dec, simply because they called me out. Ah yes, war deccing them shall truly show them how much we think they are completely irrelevant! Genius!
By the way, feel free to swing our way any time once you are done playing pretend war with the Militia. You know where we live |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 04:10:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kostantin Mort
And finally, you are completely correct on your analysis that I should show an entity that I consider completely infantile and insignificant as worthy of a war dec, simply because they called me out. Ah yes, war deccing them shall truly show them how much we think they are completely irrelevant! Genius! By the way, feel free to swing our way any time once you are done playing pretend war with the Militia. You know where we live
Much easier for you to just talk up a storm on the Summit and avoid doing absolutely anything in space eh Kostantin? Seems you haven't exactly moved on from the nationalist ideology after all. You are even doing the "we think they are so irrelevent we'll compulsively post on their threads" thing. Pathetic Amarrian waste of skin!
|
Kostantin Mort
Naqam Exalted.
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 05:16:00 -
[49]
Someone's gotta call your crap at least once, and this verbal diarrhea of a thread was a good place as any. Also, don't bother posting anymore, it's just going to be a variation of BEEP BOOP I'M A ROBOT or YOU HAVEN'T CHANGED FROM YOUR NATIONALIST DAYS HEY KOST, HEY?
Don't worry about me posting on here anymore, it was enjoyable for a day, but all trolling must come to its due end. I won't hound you in other threads either and hopefully one day, I'll forget you even exist. Bye bye, human demagogue. |
Bad Harlequin
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 06:11:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Kostantin Mort
I like how people that don't anything about me
Quote: I was referring to that as the ad hominems
Quote: even a brain-dead idiot such as yourself
Quote: an ex-Ushra'Khan non-entity
I apologize most profusely! I can clearly see how opposed you are to "infantile ad hominems," and how in your enlightened state you would never stoop so low.
Here's a hint, dear sir: when a bit of verbal jousting over the public GalNet gets you this worked up, perhaps you should relax a bit and step away from the transmitter before you overheat something important. There are some, I hear, who might feel that being so easily needled by a non-entity is a sign of weakness or mental instability.
I look forward to your rational, objective reply.
|
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Kostantin Mort
Naqam Exalted.
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 06:55:00 -
[51]
Okay, just this one last one, because you are such a peach.
Well done! You win the special prize (and it truly is special). To put it one way, I don't give a damn about you or your opinion. To put it another way, I was fully aware that I was both lambasting personal insults and at the same time dishing them out: I can assure you it was fully intentional. To put it one last, final way, you are still an idiotic nobody.
But anyway, thank you for your witty commentary and ever so thoughtful remarks. I can assure you that no part of this exchange have managed to get my blood up in the slightest, as even the hundred of brain-dead Summit dwellers can attest to. |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 07:14:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Merdaneth on 11/06/2009 07:14:09 Ms. Constantine
1. It seems wiser to address the topic at hand rather than hurl insults at others. A lot of people revile you. Live with it. Defend your principles, not your person.
2. Your fight for the acknowledgment of your relevancy detracts from progressing your anarchist agenda. I believe I am irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, it would be better if you started to believe this as well.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Thats because they weren't real problems. And this was the true story you built your lies upon. I know it must hurt you to realize this Merdaneth - but real people solve the real problems - not the hypothetical nonsense you Amarrians produce to support the crumbling edifice of your ambition "to rule".
When a mother comes to me weeping that her child has died from accidental gunfire, I'll tell her that her problem is "not a real problem" and that "real people don't worry about it"
When a crippled man comes to me, telling me he lost his livestock, livelihood and health due to overgrazing of fields and the neccessity to range ever farther in search of food I'll tell him that his problem is "not a real problem" and that "real people don't worry about it"
You solved the problems by applying shame, fear, hope, duty and symbolism as tools. I thought the anarchists favored practical and efficient solutions? But again it seems apparent the anarchists have no practical solutions to the problems of society. They solve problems through empty promises, big words and delusions of endless resources and unlimited progress. Somehow, once you become an anarchists all life's problems magically disappear, either magic solves them or you are magically convinced that the hunger gnawing at you is "not a real problem". I know some people say believing in God is akin to magic, but faith in God is pretty down-to-earth in comparison to the anarchist fairytales.
I'm not denying your talent for writing, I'm denying your ability to come up with real solutions. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
ChipMo
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 11:38:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Merdaneth
2. Your fight for the acknowledgment of your relevancy detracts from progressing your anarchist agenda. I believe I am irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, it would be better if you started to believe this as well.
Nonsense. No man is irrelevant. Every action has an impact on something. If you truly believed you were irrelevant, you wouldn't bother getting out of bed in the morning; there would be no posts on the IGS, no fights in-space, no reason to live. From your perspective no reason for your God to love you.
|
Tsual
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 12:04:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Tsual on 11/06/2009 12:04:27
Originally by: Aphoxakhan Edited by: Aphoxakhan on 11/06/2009 00:22:45
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Kostantin Mort
Woof woof! Rawr bark bark! Woof! Whimper... WOOF WOOF BARK!
Mereoowww! HISSSS! HISSSSSSS!
You've chased the Daisy up the tree, Sansha Baby. No chance for the snack now... It tells your foe everything when you run screaming and gnashing. You've been domesticated, you lost the prowess.
Sweet Jericho Daisy, you put too much effort. You'll find yourself embarrassed if you let Sansha Baby drive you into a trap. He's tenacious but dauntless, though all he really wants is a hug.
Share some cake, you cute bubbly, egg shell toddlers. The more you rage the more I see that is comparable.
I ... must ... confess ... now I also want some of those colourfull pills you had.
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Ral K'Daro
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 12:11:00 -
[55]
While I must admit the trolling of these threads is always entertaining, sometimes I wonder if the end result of them is to help augment jade's already impressive Messiah complex.
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Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 12:50:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Tsual I ... must ... confess ... now I also want some of those colourfull pills you had.
No drug shares my breath, the complexities of my thoughts are a lovely result of one plus one equals Aphoxakhan. I am jubilant forever, though I have only mud to graze upon. |
Bad Harlequin
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 13:34:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 11/06/2009 13:34:58
Originally by: Kostantin Mort Okay, just this one last one
Quote: I don't give a damn about you or your opinion
You have lost, sir. You made your grand statement about bowing out, because you don't really care, oh no of course you are above it all. And with one silly post I bring you charging back in, spewing bile and nonsense, so prove how much you don't care.
Really, you ought to upgrade your insults to tech II at least. Repeating "brain-dead" and "idiotic" a few dozen times is good for amateur hour, but you really should mix in some more variety, perhaps a little subtlety, to project that air of casual superiority you seem to think you have .
As for myself, I am wondering how many charges my Wand of Kon Summoning has left. Let's see...
|
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 15:03:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 11/06/2009 15:02:54
Originally by: Merdaneth
1. It seems wiser to address the topic at hand rather than hurl insults at others. A lot of people revile you.
If by "a lot" you are refering to yourself, a woefully incapable sashan drone and a bitter old pirate incapable of moving past his own severed associations then I will handle such nonsense as I choose to.
Quote: 2. Your fight for the acknowledgment of your relevancy detracts from progressing your anarchist agenda. I believe I am irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, it would be better if you started to believe this as well.
I am not in the habit of taking advise from enemies -particular not enemies with a penchant for lying, deceit and general evasion of all pertinent debate. You know about as much of the "anarchist agenda" as a slaver hound knows of orbital physics and atomic theory.
Quote: You solved the problems by applying shame, fear, hope, duty and symbolism as tools.
I didn't solve the problems at all. The colonists of Paradise solved the problems as they saw fit. You told a fable built on lies and propaganda - I told the truth of what really happened there.
Quote: Somehow, once you become an anarchists all life's problems magically disappear, either magic solves them or you are magically convinced that the hunger gnawing at you is "not a real problem".
No magic in the accounts of colonisation on Paradise. It was a perfect world settled by an adaptive and capable people. The outcome was how I'd generally expect such things to proceed.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 15:12:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kostantin Mort Don't worry about me posting on here anymore, it was enjoyable for a day, but all trolling must come to its due end and hopefully one day, I'll forget you even exist. Bye bye, human demagogue.
I'm sure when you conceived the notion of assaulting this thread with your superior transhuman intellect it seemed like a pretty good idea.
High altitude approach from hypersonic orbital insertion, your attack ship banking at high-g manouvers and powering through the atmosphere like a cybernetic aerial war-shark of doom!
How you must have felt then! Proud, invulnerable, coldly sneering at the technology of the IGS residents below you on the world mapped out in lines and thermal signatures on your targetting display as you mused a moment on the approapriate weapons systems and selected high yield airburst cluster munitions and nanotech bomblets to render the primary target unhabitable for generations to come.
Your heart would have been beating fast if you still had one, but the machine of quantum pumps and silicon-neutral heat exchange never wavered from optimal as you pressed into the dive and lit the blast zone with invisible sensors back-projected on the mindseye.
Two-seconds to weapon release. Your lips drawn back in a transhuman parody of a smile as your thoughts armed the destructive systems and all scopes remained clear of any conceivable threat.
You drift for just a moment as your senses savour the whirling blur of the deep verdant forestry and sullen grey hills whipping by the canopy just a hundred meters below the cold scramjet exhaust plumes of the Naqam bird of prey.
Now! All senses full of the climax of violent anticaption as you key the release sequence ...
Then it all goes wrong.
From nowhere the ship is hit with a shuddering, sickening, collision of heat and kinetic energy and is knocked from the sky end over end and tumbling to earth with a shocking violation of all the immortal invulnerability you held as an article of faith till micro-moments before.
Eject! Eject!
The canopy explodes outwards with your capsule ripped free of its cybernetic attunements and hurled away from the doomed craft parallel to the dizzying vista of dirtside terrain. Your thoughts are full of sickness and loss as you dive into the sanctuary of ship-time and obsessively replay the last second before the event seeking context for the inexplicable.
There.
-1.212 Heat bloom on the landscape. -0.813 Projectile (category missile/chemical) -0.413 Guidence unknown?? (reclassify visual?) -0.234 Backtrack path - overlay (launch site, one biological trace) -0.121 Classify hostile human female - adolescent (primitive launch tube/ray painter) -0.043 Zoom, remap, zoom, facial recognition failed - (she is smiling fiercely) -0.012 Indiginous, technology primitive, slowtime, (she salutes the sky with a fist)
***
The ground rushes up and greets the escape capsule with a grinding crash, smashing the remaining autonomous systems and splitting the fragile shell to spill amniotic fluids across the vegetation of an unknown forest floor.
How long you are out is difficult to judge now. You aren't thinking straight any more. Shiptime is gone. Sensor augmentations non-functional. You are coughing and struggling to breath - air? Crawling like some kind of wounded creature in the painful grip of a gravity well you make perhaps a few tens of meters from the ruined pod before exhaustion claims you and vision mercifully dims as the raw visible radiation of this world burns your eyes and forces involuntary activation of tear glands.
Then she's there. The girl with the rocket-launcher. Looking down at you. She's young, alive, skin-weathered and tanned with exposure to this systems primary. She has a strange expression that takes a moment to register. (Disgust) ((how dare she?)). You try to speak but your throat is too dry. She brings a gun from a holster and points it down at your face. You close your eyes.
Goodbye. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 15:20:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Ral K'Daro While I must admit the trolling of these threads is always entertaining, sometimes I wonder if the end result of them is to help augment jade's already impressive Messiah complex.
The end result is the important account in the op remains at the top of the forum. I'm largely impervious to any kind of trolling and simply turn the energies of detractors to the useful service of promoting the message I want promoted. Kostantin, Devilish, Rejected Enlightenment eta al, might be idiots but they are useful idiots. Long may they retain their utility.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
|
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 16:45:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Jade Constantine I'm largely impervious to any kind of trolling and simply turn the energies of detractors to the useful service of promoting the message I want promoted.
You're not a very good liar. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 16:51:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux You're not a very good liar.
Thats okay you weren't a very good Free Captain
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 16:55:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Devilish Ledoux on 11/06/2009 16:55:57
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux You're not a very good liar.
Thats okay you weren't a very good Free Captain
See what I mean?
And for reference, I AM a better Freecaptain than you. For one, I'm FREE. _
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 17:08:00 -
[64]
You are a clown Devilish. You were seduced by the wilful psychosis of our enemies and have thrown yourself into the mess of random murder and violence for its own sake. I pity you really. If you think yourself better than me then prove it. Change the universe. Make me take notice in your accomplishments and vision and make me listen to your words rather than scorn them. Find something you believe in and convince me its right.
Until then you'll keep on feeling empty inside because you have replaced something with nothing and have only the loneliness of pointless conflict to look forward to hereafter while you circle like a flame-drawn moth to the passion you have lost.
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Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 17:10:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Jade Constantine If you think yourself better than me then prove it. Change the universe.
You first.
PS: Tell me more about how you're impervious to trolling. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 17:20:00 -
[66]
I noticed you evaded the point about the hurt and loss you feel inside Devilish. Must be something you find difficult to deal with. But on the throwaway line of the trolling you must know that to "troll" a person you need to anger them and force an unwise response? You are incapable of angering me so how would you be able to "troll" me? If anything I think you are "trolling" yourself here since you've dug a rather embarrassing pit that you are trying to dig your way out of.
But by all means continue with a silly responses. I'll reply to the next when the thread needs a convenient bump.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 17:28:00 -
[67]
Hurt and loss? I think you're projecting, doll. I have inflicted quite a bit of both in my time. Would that be what you're referencing? Or perhaps you're continuing to indulge in your rich fantasy life?
Also, every single response you make is unwise. Every single response. If you had any sense (you don't), you'd clear everything you want to say with Cosmo beforehand. Of course, you wouldn't say very much then, and what fun would that be? |
Bad Harlequin
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 17:46:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux what fun would that be?
Psst... read this again a few times. Maybe none of us are immune as we'd like to think
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Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 17:56:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Bad Harlequin
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux what fun would that be?
Psst... read this again a few times. Maybe none of us are immune as we'd like to think
Yes, but you see how I don't get angry, while she does? That's how I know I've won. _
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Tatsue Nuko
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 18:10:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Jade Constantine I suspect the majority of the names he conjures above do not support his sentiments and are frankly embarrassed by his continued attempts to cause rifts between Stimulus and The Star Fraction.
I contest this claim. You would be better off to discuss issues where you have factual basis and talent. Correctly judging and evaluating the motivations of former comrades is not one of those talents.
Originally by: Jade Constantine If you think yourself better than me then prove it. Change the universe.
Ah, but here we have the clincher. This is where the actual interest and value lies.
You see, yourself and your organization is jailed to the concept of being in servitude to the greater cause of humanity as a collective. You have managed the admirable step of discarding the collectivism of the nationalist structures prevalent in baseline society, but through your ideology you are still considering yourselves subservient to a greater good that diminishes and insults your own potential.
You are sovereign. You are a nation unto yourself. Yet you do not realize this and would rather jail yourself to the service of others - even those that do not ask for your assistance and tutelage. This is your failing, your counscious intent of making yourself a slave to others; and not through the coercion of others, but through your own design.
Those who are enslaved to others are deplorable victims that should justly be freed and enabled to realize their own potential. Those who are slaves to their own ideals, placing themselves below those of lesser capability and of lesser intellect and potential can only be deplored for their misguided choices.
You are a slave. And unlike those who are enslaved due to the overbearing powers and resources of others and deserve aid, emancipation and camaraderie, you are a slave to your own misguided ideals, lost cause, and self-inflicted servitude to a collective.
You have failed to realize, desire, and take for yourself the one thing that the transhuman revolution has given you. Yet still you preach as if your ideal and moral of servitude was an ideal worthy of any capable posthuman society. This is sad.
|
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Bad Harlequin
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 19:49:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux
Originally by: Bad Harlequin
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux what fun would that be?
Psst... read this again a few times. Maybe none of us are immune as we'd like to think
Yes, but you see how I don't get angry, while she does? That's how I know I've won.
You get to the heart of the matter. Fact is, none of us "see" how the others are really reacting. I see a lot of people projecting emotions onto others, though. Sometimes unconsciously, sometimes deliberately to provoke a reaction. Galnet broadcasts don't have an emotive carrier signal...
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Tecam Hund
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 19:58:00 -
[72]
So you are saying that Free Captains of Star Fraction should replace their ideals with self interest. No thanks.
Sorry, but organizations like Stimulus are dime a dozen. I share Jade's opinion regarding the fact that some Stimulus pilots who I was privileged to fly with earlier, now turned bitter and angry because they lost something. Your souls are empty. You exist simply to exist. The battles you win bear no consequence except destruction. You are not even pirates, just exterminators.
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 20:10:00 -
[73]
I find the contretemps raised by certain former members of the Fraction rather synthetic but, as my name was conjured with, I will certainly disavow and reject any suggestion that anyone needs to, or should, run responses by me on matters of personal philosophy and political outlook. Far less do they need to consult me when it is a matter of dismissing faintly bizarre insults and flacid goads.
As for the suggestion that we are in any way concerned with some mythical 'greater good' or are binding ourselves to the service of some amorphous 'collective': nonsense.
I suppose the error, while fairly gross, can be comprehended but it is, at this time, a fairly novel one to be laid against us and, I think, it depends on your perspective. If you are, perhaps, an ultra-egoist who, perhaps, believes in the total and solipsistic supremacy of the individual where, we may presume, the individual has shucked off all vestiges of humanity, or transhumanity, and abandoned any meaningful status as a social being, well then it might be that the views and actions of those who still consider themselves social beings, for all that they also see themselves as sovereign beings, might seem rather less than satisfactory. If you are an ultra-egoist, that is.
But what is this? 'Those who are enslaved to others are deplorable victims that should justly be freed and enabled to realize their own potential.' Indeed? But pray, where has the ultra-egoist gone? And see here again: people 'who are enslaved due to the overbearing powers and resources of others [...] deserve aid, emancipation and camaraderie'. Ah? Why is that then? If providing aid, freeing such and entering into camaraderie with those in need of it is acceptable, why is it? What is in it for the one who is 'sovereign'? What is in it for the one who is 'a nation unto [himself]'? Isn't this making yourself a slave to these people who need freeing and enabling? Is this not servitude in the name of the great collective mass of the enslaved and oppressed?
Of course it is not and you would not consider it such I am sure. So why then are you not a slave of your own ideals while we in the Star Fraction, apparently, are? Why is your short-term altruism in pursuit, so I suppose, of long-term interest fine but our's not?
Disagree with our analysis of the surest method of securing our personal freedom and self-interest, which is to say enabling this for all, by all means (though I am not sure how much you do disagree given you apparently approve of freeing those who suffer the myriad forms of slavery in this cluster), but I would ask you not to make the error of equating the method with the motivation.
Your instincts are surer and have more force, I think, than your polemic. You would free the enslaved. Yet you believe in your self-interest. How can these two things be reconciled? Quite easily, and I really think I have no need to teach you who knows it best of all.
The Cosmopolite
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Tsual
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 20:16:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Aphoxakhan
Originally by: Tsual I ... must ... confess ... now I also want some of those colourfull pills you had.
No drug shares my breath, the complexities of my thoughts are a lovely result of one plus one equals Aphoxakhan. I am jubilant forever, though I have only mud to graze upon.
You're logical conclusion might be a brilliant delusion of grandeur on the other hand you're not so wrong if you go with the possible numerical interpretation of two being a female number. |
Tatsue Nuko
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 20:49:00 -
[75]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite But what is this? 'Those who are enslaved to others are deplorable victims that should justly be freed and enabled to realize their own potential.' Indeed? But pray, where has the ultra-egoist gone?
She has gone to where the greatest benefit to herself lies - namely, to those who she considers her peers in both intellectual and practical capability. Because it is here that she can thrive, it is here that she can prosper not only as an economic entity but also as an intellectual entity.
Aiding individuals because their specific emancipation will be a gain to you is a very obvious good. A capable individual has nothing to fear from enlarging their associations, as long as it is enlagerd by other enlightened, capable individuals.
Aiding individuals due to a code of ethics that relies on your duty to a, in perception, enslaved collective of an obsolete humanity, is self-sacrifice and antithesis to progress. Restricting yourself due to similar perceived obligations is even worse, since it not only places yourself in a servitude to others, it is directly violating your own capability as a sovereign indivudual.
What you fail to realize is that just as giving aid is contingent upon the purpose served for yourself as a capable individual and a nation unto yourself, just like the potential you see in the individual receiver, and the refusal to aid yourself is a negation of yourself and an abdication of your potential, restricting yourself for any such collectivistic concerns is equally an abdication of your own value and a total destruction of all that you aspire to be as an individual.
Whoever makes herself, or her conduct, subservient to a collective that is not completely made of her peers, is only asking to make herself a product of someone else's scheme. Also, this infatuation with social interaction beyond what is beneficial seems strange to me from anyone that has taken the first steps of rejecting the collectivist memes of baseline humanity's social constructs.
You are not dependant on others. You are not dependant on the approval of others. You are not dependant on the product of others. You are not dependant on the capabilities of others.
The only thing you are dependant upon is yourself.
And this is exactly what allows you to be fully free in your interactions with other individuals; that they are completely free of obligation, need, or the contamination of collectivist memes such as the requirement to be restrained against others even when this goes detrimental to your own purposes.
Originally by: The Cosmopolite though I am not sure how much you do disagree given you apparently approve of freeing those who suffer the myriad forms of slavery in this cluster
For your benefit, since I do appreciate your contribution to the development of transhumanist philosophy, I shall make it as clear as is possible:
I have everything to gain from aiding competent individuals in whom I can see unrealized potential. I am practically immortal, I have a huge amount of time in which to recoup expenses through interaction with other individuals whom I have helped.
However, I have no obligation to do any specific action, or restrain any specific action, against, for, or towards, any individual who cannot be made of relevance to my own personal life. This is the thing that Star Fraction has not yet realized - what has happened is not only that you have been given the chance of being immortal, you have been given the chance of being truly independent. Not only economically independent, but psychologically, ideologically, socially and methodologically.
The worst kind of shackles that can bind a person is those that are self-imposed. Relieve yourself of those. |
Bacchanalian
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 20:50:00 -
[76]
Cosmo, as ever, your comments are a tribute to your own character as well as one of the last remaining shimmers of hope for The Star Fraction. You are a tragic character stuck in a dying revolution by your own admirable sense of loyalty to the cause and fierce determination to pursue it to whatever end it may come to. |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 21:12:00 -
[77]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
As for the suggestion that we are in any way concerned with some mythical 'greater good' or are binding ourselves to the service of some amorphous 'collective': nonsense.
I suppose the error, while fairly gross, can be comprehended.
Cosmopolite, if even prominent ex-SF members make 'faily gross errors' when interpreting the SF anarchist philosophy, don't you think its about time you admit the SF philosophy is extremely vague at best and contradictory at worst?
Unless you mean to say you disagree, rather than say your former allies are making errors?
Or do you perhaps want to accuse your former allies of intentionally misunderstanding the SF dogma? ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 21:13:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Bacchanalian Cosmo, as ever, your comments are a tribute to your own character as well as one of the last remaining shimmers of hope for The Star Fraction. You are a tragic character stuck in a dying revolution by your own admirable sense of loyalty to the cause and fierce determination to pursue it to whatever end it may come to.
I suppose that to the many of the ex-SF members, this is the true Anarchist Tragedy? ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Tatsue Nuko
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 21:21:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 11/06/2009 21:21:49
Originally by: Merdaneth Or do you perhaps want to accuse your former allies of intentionally misunderstanding the SF dogma?
I see what scheme you have in play there. The disagreement between myself and Cosmo is a philosophical one. I consider myself to have proceeded beyond where I was when I was a Star Fraction director. Cosmo considers me mistaken.
You should not attempt to construe my post to be a characterization of "SF dogma". It is very contradictory to SF dogma. This is part of the reason why I am not part of the Star Fraction, but rather a Stimulus political officer in the Rote Kapelle.
Do not presume to weasel yourself into interpreting such things for us. You are not worthy. |
Zverofaust
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 21:22:00 -
[80]
The revolution is no more dead than the circumstances which necessitate it. |
|
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 21:26:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Merdaneth if even prominent ex-SF members make 'faily gross errors' when interpreting the SF anarchist philosophy, don't you think its about time you admit the SF philosophy is extremely vague at best and contradictory at worst?
There is a reason why these ex-SF members are ex-SF members and its usually because they have disagreed with the philosophy of the Star Fraction on some level. Typically they have taken part in the democratic selection of war-aims and objectives and disagreed with the outcome and decided to seek their own path outside the Fraction.
There is nothing vague or contradictory about the SF philosophy and only an Amarrian nationalist could believe or state it so.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Tatsue Nuko
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 21:28:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Zverofaust The revolution is no more dead than the circumstances which necessitate it.
The revolution is whenever we reincarnate. Whenever we cheat death. Whenever we create through our own capability. Whenever we perform an act of our own, individual will. The Revolution is whenever we kill those who say "you shall". The Revolution is whenever we make love only for our own pleasure and happiness. It lies in any and all acts that the establishment would not have us do, but that we through our capability do anyway.
It is not dependent on any other "circumstance" than an individual taking full responsibility for herself, but also taking responsiblity only for herself.
|
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 21:39:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Bacchanalian Cosmo, as ever, your comments are a tribute to your own character as well as one of the last remaining shimmers of hope for The Star Fraction. You are a tragic character stuck in a dying revolution by your own admirable sense of loyalty to the cause and fierce determination to pursue it to whatever end it may come to.
It does seem to be quite the evening for Stimulus officers to speak against the Star Fraction and condemn as "failed" a revolution they themselves abandoned some years ago. You made your choice Bacchanalian. You chose to depart the Fraction and seek your own name and noteriety in the Star Cluster. You swore to build your own fame and measure yourself against your own achievements.
Yet here we are years on from your departure and you are still seeking to criticise and condemn the cause and ideals of the Star Fraction. One might ask what is so wrong with Stimulus at the moment that you feel obliged to condemn an organization that you left a long time ago? Surely the very best form of criticism would be to have achieved great things in your own name and put us to your shadow rather than feeling obliged to bring us to the earth so your shadow might even be seen?
I understand you disagree with us on many respects. You believe we are wrong to practise an NRDS ideology. You believe we are wrong to engage the 24th Crusade. You believe we are wrong to befriend the Matari insurgents. Doubtless you believe we are wrong to fly tech1 Cruisers and wrong to engage in a war of attrition in the Bleaklands also. But none of this is news. These are old disagreements that took you from our number a long time ago.
Why only now come to speak of what you perceive to be a "dying revolution"? Why speak at this precise time? Why in this thread are the Amarrian Nationalists, Sanshan Zombies and Stimulus raiders united in condemnation of the Star Fraction?
I knew the tale in the op was a powerful one. But what threat does it present to your way of life Bacchanalian?
What do you gain from seeking continued argument with the Fraction?
Why are you so fearful for the status of Stimulus that you belittle the Fraction rather than lauding your own accomplishments and striving to become first amongst equals?
|
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 21:48:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Merdaneth on 11/06/2009 21:53:55
Originally by: Tatsue Nuko The disagreement between myself and Cosmo is a philosophical one.
As is mine. We are all talking about philosophical disagreements here, right?
Originally by: Tatsue Nuko I consider myself to have proceeded beyond where I was when I was a Star Fraction director. Cosmo considers me mistaken.
You should not attempt to construe my post to be a characterization of "SF dogma". It is very contradictory to SF dogma.
I didn't construe it so, the Cosmopolite did. He didn't (just) disagree with you, he also thought you had made a 'gross error'. A crucial difference.
Originally by: Tatsue Nuko Do not presume to weasel yourself into interpreting such things for us. You are not worthy.
You mean that when I think the Cosmopolite says error he doesn't meant error and I am 'interpreting things' by assuming it is an error?
I don't believe you really object to my interpretation, but just to the fact that I interfering with your discussion. You really should have thought of that before you began to interject comments that had no direct bearing on the topic of this thread. Your petty squabble is interfering with *my* philosophical discussion with SF luminaries, not the other way around miss Nuko.
I will point out errors in the Cosmopolite's reasoning as I see fit. I believe The Cosmopolite might indeed have intended to say 'disagree' but said 'error' in his response. However, I believe this was a deliberate attempt to make himself sound more factual and more convincing. A useful ploy but prone to backfire as it has in this case.
I am indeed not worthy, but I don't need to to discuss philosophy, right? Perhaps your particular breed of anarchism believes in some threshold of worthiness before someone can add a response to a public discussion? Perhaps you should call the worthiness police to arrest me for giving my opinion, for only 'the worthy Elders of Rote Kapelle and Star Fraction' are allowed to join the discussion, right?
Edit: just had to add this little gem
Originally by: Tatsue Nuko The revolution is whenever we reincarnate. Whenever we cheat death. Whenever we create through our own capability. Whenever we perform an act of our own, individual will. The Revolution is whenever we kill those who say "you shall".
I believe, ms. Nuko, that you just told me 'you shall not interfere or interpret my discussion with the Cosmopolite'. Perhaps you might consider studying hypocrisy 101 again? Or will you kill yourself now to continue the revolution? |
Tatsue Nuko
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 21:49:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Yet here we are years on from your departure and you are still seeking to criticise and condemn the cause and ideals of the Star Fraction.
I fail to see how leaving means we cannot express our disagreements when they arise. You seek to apply our separation as a gag against us, which is folly and you know it. You should know better than to think that such a simple ploy would not be seen through.
Originally by: Jade Constantine Why in this thread are the Amarrian Nationalists, Sanshan Zombies and Stimulus raiders united in condemnation of the Star Fraction?
We are not. This is easy to read. Certain elements that are sorely lacking in their own intellectual capability have tried to piggyback on our arguments, but you know quite well that that does not equal a sanction in the other direction. Again, a very simple ploy that you should know is easy to see through. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 22:03:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 11/06/2009 22:05:25
Originally by: Tatsue Nuko
I fail to see how leaving means we cannot express our disagreements when they arise. You seek to apply our separation as a gag against us, which is folly and you know it. You should know better than to think that such a simple ploy would not be seen through.
What are you disagreeing with? Are you trying to tell us how the Star Fraction should be organized? How we should vote on our campaigns and focus now? What makes you think you have a stake in the movement any more? Why would we care what you think?
And you will refrain from telling me what "I seek". That is the tactic of the Amarrian nationalist and demeaning to you.
What I am asking here is why you left in the first place when intellectually it appears you have never really made the break. Earlier you spouted a mix of nonsense cod-philosophical rambling that a child could see through. In the Fraction you'd quite rightfully have been laughed at. What makes you believe you should be judged more kindly years after you quit the cause for random NBSI violence and pointless aggression against neutrals?
I'm asking quite honestly now. Are you so ashamed of your own accomplishments these last two years that the only way you can feel good about yourself is to attempt to criticise ours?
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Bacchanalian
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 00:33:00 -
[87]
Jade, this may have never happened to you before, but bear with me a moment.
You're walking down the street on the way to run an errand, in a small town where everyone knows you. On your way to the grocery, amidst friendly waves and greetings from your neighbors and peers, you notice someone up the street making a scene. Overturning a fruit cart, yelling loudly, generally making a scene, and then turning and staggering in your direction, recognition showing through the inebriated face slathered in drool and sweat as it makes eye contact with you.
You can't help but feel a twinge of pain, pity, remorse. Maybe you could have done something once to help them. Maybe you could have offered them a place to stay, more support when they first started struggling with alcohol, maybe...but no, you had your own life to pursue, your own things to take care of, and after all, you can't take responsibility for every person who decides to ruin their own lives, no matter how much it hurts to watch them do it.
You don't notice your friends' faces as he greets you with his slovenly, drunken greeting, spittle and perhaps a hint of vomit streaming from the corner of his mouth as his lopsided smile spreads--you're too caught up in a mixture of pity, remorse, regret, and anger at them for making you feel all of that.
If I could sum up my personal feelings for Star Fraction since I chose to leave it, the above about sums it up to me. |
Jonny Damordred
Freecaptains' Union Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 00:39:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Jade Constantine And its fairly clear there is no love lost between Devilish Ledaux and myself and there is a personal feud here. I suspect the majority of the names he conjures above do not support his sentiments and are frankly embarrassed by his continued attempts to cause rifts between Stimulus and The Star Fraction.
Never speak for me, ever.
------------------------- CEO and Professor of Gunboat Diplomacy |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 01:03:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Jonny Damordred
Originally by: Jade Constantine And its fairly clear there is no love lost between Devilish Ledaux and myself and there is a personal feud here. I suspect the majority of the names he conjures above do not support his sentiments and are frankly embarrassed by his continued attempts to cause rifts between Stimulus and The Star Fraction.
Never speak for me, ever.
What makes you think I was speaking for you? I had you categorized in the minority of puling idiots who Devilish Ledaux was speaking for but were too gutless to speak for themselves.
And don't deign to speak to me in that tone you mockery of a man. Its not like you have the courage to follow through on any threat.
|
ChipMo
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 01:10:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Tatsue Nuko Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 11/06/2009 21:09:08 She has gone to where the greatest benefit to herself lies - namely, to those who she considers her peers in both intellectual and practical capability. Because it is here that she can thrive, it is here that she can prosper not only as an economic entity but also as an intellectual entity.
cont...
Interesting post, the first time I've seen the NBSI for Freedom idea put into words. In my own mind I look at the two as mutually exclusive ways of life, as I believe for freedom to mean anything it has to apply to all people. Killing those who have not imposed on your freedom is a violation of theirs; thereby defeating the whole purpose.
I see how one could walk the path you've chosen though, it appears on the outset to be an attractive one, however do you spend much time considering where it will lead? You, and those you declare worthy of being your peers appear to be traveling down the road towards self styled Gods. Every civilization has fables of these all-powerful beings, none of which I really believed but given our trans human existence it is possible that a collective could become all powerful.
I can't deny the road to God-hood must be an exciting journey, but it will ultimatly end in a tragic failure, or yourselves becoming omnipotent. Is there another outcome of your en devours that I have overlooked? What do you believe will be the end result of your self-interest?
--------------------------
|
|
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 01:10:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Bacchanalian If I could sum up my personal feelings for Star Fraction since I chose to leave it, the above about sums it up to me.
Well though you decided not to answer the questions with anything other than second rate smacktalk it is nice to see some honesty at last.
I'll be a little less florid but for my part I'll sum up my feelings towards stimulus: a bitter group of under-achieving attention-seeking nobodies who have achieved nothing in the two years since you quit the revolution except backslide into regressive NBSI dogma and continually snipe from the sidelines against an organization you rather hoped would die without you but actually done rather well in your absence.
Its a chronic case of the wayward child feeling it can never measure up against the parent. Rather than going your own way and achieving your own fame you believe you are hindered by the greater name of the organization you left behind. I feel a little sad for you rather than any real anger. And I still believe you would be much happier if you simply left the past alone rather than compulsively picking at scabs which should have healed long ago.
Still these little dramas usually don't end until one or other organization is destroyed. One day you'll find the courage to try it.
Until then Bacchanalian.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 01:22:00 -
[92]
Oh, dear, I am getting dizzy. This chatter hums by too viscous to can catch in my thin hands. Slow down, darling egg shell toddlers, let me play along.
The argument is polarity of cascading thought. You can never understand each other because the matter would be destroyed in the moment it collided. Instead of going against, it is time to turn together at a right angle, then swim together to make a helix of marvellous power.
Open the parachute and land gently, lovely captains. --- [Don't Think Differently, Think Critically.] |
ChipMo
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 01:31:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Bacchanalian Jade, this may have never happened to you before, but bear with me a moment.
You're walking down the street on the way to run an errand, in a small town where everyone knows you. On your way to the grocery, amidst friendly waves and greetings from your neighbors and peers, you notice someone up the street making a scene. Overturning a fruit cart, yelling loudly, generally making a scene, and then turning and staggering in your direction, recognition showing through the inebriated face slathered in drool and sweat as it makes eye contact with you.
You can't help but feel a twinge of pain, pity, remorse. Maybe you could have done something once to help them. Maybe you could have offered them a place to stay, more support when they first started struggling with alcohol, maybe...but no, you had your own life to pursue, your own things to take care of, and after all, you can't take responsibility for every person who decides to ruin their own lives, no matter how much it hurts to watch them do it.
You don't notice your friends' faces as he greets you with his slovenly, drunken greeting, spittle and perhaps a hint of vomit streaming from the corner of his mouth as his lopsided smile spreads--you're too caught up in a mixture of pity, remorse, regret, and anger at them for making you feel all of that.
If I could sum up my personal feelings for Star Fraction since I chose to leave it, the above about sums it up to me.
Seriously...? I'm almost at a loss for words... But one thing is for sure, you can shove your pity where the sun don't shine. --------------------------
|
Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 01:40:00 -
[94]
Originally by: ChipMo Seriously...? I'm almost at a loss for words... But one thing is for sure, you can shove your pity where the sun don't shine.
How unbecoming! You disappoint me, Furry Antifascist, you must allow me to stretch your canvas into a flat plane that can be painted upon.
Seriously... no, serious will not do. Loss of words?! Always have words, even if they are the right ones! And we most certainly do not reject the emotions of our enemies; we tear them apart and rebuild them. I'll rephrase for you more appropriately:
"Ridiculously...? I lose my words willingly into the void, for the void embraces me like oily fire... But one thing is for sure, your innocence is undebated for there is no question to the unruly nature of your emotion. Melt away and reforge yourself in a more compassionate self, traitorous sponge." |
ChipMo
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 01:48:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Aphoxakhan
Originally by: ChipMo Seriously...? I'm almost at a loss for words... But one thing is for sure, you can shove your pity where the sun don't shine.
How unbecoming! You disappoint me, Furry Antifascist, you must allow me to stretch your canvas into a flat plane that can be painted upon.
Seriously... no, serious will not do. Loss of words?! Always have words, even if they are the right ones! And we most certainly do not reject the emotions of our enemies; we tear them apart and rebuild them. I'll rephrase for you more appropriately:
"Ridiculously...? I lose my words willingly into the void, for the void embraces me like oily fire... But one thing is for sure, your innocence is undebated for there is no question to the unruly nature of your emotion. Melt away and reforge yourself in a more compassionate self, traitorous sponge."
Righteous words comrade, if this is how the world views me I shall indeed tear it down and re-build its perception to reflect reality. I spoke in haste, when there was no need to speak at all. Lets go paint that beautiful picture :) |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 01:52:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Jade Constantine I'll be a little less florid but for my part I'll sum up my feelings towards stimulus: a bitter group of under-achieving attention-seeking nobodies who have achieved nothing in the two years since you quit the revolution except backslide into regressive NBSI dogma and continually snipe from the sidelines against an organization you rather hoped would die without you but actually done rather well in your absence.
Remind me again how roaming Amarr space in low-end vessels and destroying poorly-equipped vessels piloted by poorly trained and disorganized, yet imminently fungible, militia members equates to doing "rather well", rather than a necessary downgrading of your combat effort after a string of expensive losses against those same militiamen and their flying space junk.
Quote: Its a chronic case of the wayward child feeling it can never measure up against the parent. Rather than going your own way and achieving your own fame you believe you are hindered by the greater name of the organization you left behind. I feel a little sad for you rather than any real anger. And I still believe you would be much happier if you simply left the past alone rather than compulsively picking at scabs which should have healed long ago.
My metaphor is quite the opposite of yours: After leaving the family homestead to make his own way in the world, a young man sees that the world was not quite as his family seemed to believe during his infancy. He seeks out his distant relatives to share what he has learned. He discovers that the family has fallen on hard times, that the family matriarch has slid toward insanity and that this insanity has begun to poison the family's ability to prosper. None of the other family members see a way to depose their mad queen, and indeed, many refuse to see her descent into madness for what it is. When the prodigal son attempts to reason with the matriarch, he is promptly disowned and cursed as a traitor to the family. Seeing no solution that does not involve violence against his own family, the prodigal son departs to continue his own ascendance. He continues to send missives of varying degree to his misguided kin, but the mad matriarch intercepts nearly all communications and continues to rule the clan with an iron fist.
Quote: Still these little dramas usually don't end until one or other organization is destroyed. One day you'll find the courage to try it.
And the mad matriarch chews over old glories in her crumbling manse, hissing over the percieved threat of her long-lost son. "One day, he will come to supplant me!" she shrieks. "He'll come to take away everything, but I shall be ready!" as she continues to poison the family, doing more damage than the prodigal son ever could ... never realizing that the prodigal son has moved on and has no desire for lordship over such a ragged and diseased house. |
Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 01:53:00 -
[97]
Originally by: ChipMo Righteous words comrade, if this is how the world views me I shall indeed tear it down and re-build its perception to reflect reality. I spoke in haste, when there was no need to speak at all. Lets go paint that beautiful picture :)
Sparkle, glimmer, light the darkness. Get the pastels, there is much work to be done. |
Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 01:59:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux The lead flows molten through my tendrils, shaking the vacuum dry! Dainty, I am, though unsworn and I know my own way. Percussive force of rage, I am quiet, I am held safe by myself.
I see the sight you view with, I understand. You do not have to spite, we still have time to share, to smile together. Please, Shock Angel, relent and gasp for the air you desperately crave. It is not to be forgiven, it is to be learned from. Take my hand, diplomatics ensue. |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 02:01:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Aphoxakhan
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux The lead flows molten through my tendrils, shaking the vacuum dry! Dainty, I am, though unsworn and I know my own way. Percussive force of rage, I am quiet, I am held safe by myself.
I see the sight you view with, I understand. You do not have to spite, we still have time to share, to smile together. Please, Shock Angel, relent and gasp for the air you desperately crave. It is not to be forgiven, it is to be learned from. Take my hand, diplomatics ensue.
So what you're saying is that Star Fraction has degenerated to the point that even hopeless Drop addicts are allowed entry. I suspected as much, but thank you for confirmation. |
Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 02:06:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux So what you're saying is that Star Fraction has degenerated to the point that even hopeless Drop addicts are allowed entry. I suspected as much, but thank you for confirmation.
Drop drop falling away, I smile and I wave to say that I have grown into an epiphany of surreal impression.
You do not understand, it is not with drugs I form my expletives. I am chorus with my emotions, we sing together to explain to you the poetry of reality. Come on, work with me here, Shock Angel. |
|
ChipMo
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 02:08:00 -
[101]
Edited by: ChipMo on 12/06/2009 02:08:56
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux
So what you're saying is that Star Fraction has degenerated to the point that even hopeless Drop addicts are allowed entry. I suspected as much, but thank you for confirmation.
Tatsue Nuko spoke earlier of flying with peers of her intellect and skill. She seems to be a highly intelligent pilot. How can you who misinterpret Aphoxakhan's wise words as Drop induced ramblings be a peer to her? |
Jonny Damordred
Freecaptains' Union Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 02:09:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Jade Constantine And don't deign to speak to me in that tone you mockery of a man.
You don't like my tone?
Actually win a war without me leading your fleets and then maybe, just maybe, I'll show you a modi****of respect.
Until that day comes, you are just another Nikolai Nuvolari.
Jonny D. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 02:11:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux So what you're saying is that Star Fraction has degenerated to the point that even hopeless Drop addicts are allowed entry. I suspected as much, but thank you for confirmation.
At yet you are still too much a gutless coward to bring a wardec and end this matter in bloodshed and clashing of hulls you wish in your heart to see. How does it feel to know nothing but powerless terror and impotence in the face of those that consider you a pathetic joke? Stimulus? You couldn't stimulate a convict with a visit to a brothel you epic failure of a man.
|
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 02:14:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 12/06/2009 02:14:45
Originally by: Jonny Damordred
Actually win a war without me leading your fleets and then maybe, just maybe, I'll show you a modi****of respect.
Jonny wake up. You were a half-rate fleet commander at best. We really didn't lose anything other than your ego when you quit the cause. Two years have passed but you don't seem to have gone anywhere. Must be disorientating. Still, Devilish claims to have access to the Stimulus war-panel. Click the button and show me your talents. Because telling just won't cut it.
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Samuel Cole
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 02:26:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux So what you're saying is that Star Fraction has degenerated to the point that even hopeless Drop addicts are allowed entry. I suspected as much, but thank you for confirmation.
Aphox is beset with the madness that often accompanies deep insight and extraordinary experience - there is much wisdom in her words if you can get past the angular metaphors and frequent facial twitching. Then again, you have already demonstrated your inability to appreciate depth, so I shouldn't expect you to understand. |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 02:26:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Jade Constantine At yet you are still too much a gutless coward to bring a wardec and end this matter in bloodshed and clashing of hulls you wish in your heart to see. How does it feel to know nothing but powerless terror and impotence in the face of those that consider you a pathetic joke? Stimulus? You couldn't stimulate a convict with a visit to a brothel you epic failure of a man.
"YES!" she howls, heedless of the drops of spittle landing on her datascreen. "They FEAR to attack me! They live in TERROR of my divine POWER! There is no other possible answer!!" |
Jonny Damordred
Freecaptains' Union Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 02:28:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Jonny wake up. You were a half-rate fleet commander at best.
So, can't point to a war won after my leaving? Nikolai indeed.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.12 02:29:00 -
[108]
So no wardec then Devilish? How like the Amarrians you have become.
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Clementina
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 02:35:00 -
[109]
Hello Everybody;
I liked Jade Constantine's take on "The Anarchist Tragedy" Truly it was a work of art, and an Improvement on Merdaneth's take on the story (Although I will admit that his was good, just not good enough). I have no endowments for the fine art of literature but I nevertheless wish to encourage people like Jade and Merdaneth to continue to persue this craft. |
ChipMo
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 02:36:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Jonny Damordred
So, can't point to a war won after my leaving? Nikolai indeed.
I have only been involved in 1 war with the Star Fraction, Operation Castro, a far more complex conflict than any I have witnessed an alliance undertake. This one, will end in victory. Regardless, we will fight on, this spirit can never be broken.
If you think it can, I echo our CEO's comments, bring it. |
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Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.06.12 02:37:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Clementina Hello Everybody;
I liked Jade Constantine's take on "The Anarchist Tragedy" Truly it was a work of art, and an Improvement on Merdaneth's take on the story (Although I will admit that his was good, just not good enough). I have no endowments for the fine art of literature but I nevertheless wish to encourage people like Jade and Merdaneth to continue to persue this craft.
Wait ... you actually READ it? Wowie. |
Clementina
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 02:44:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux
Originally by: Clementina Hello Everybody;
I liked Jade Constantine's take on "The Anarchist Tragedy" Truly it was a work of art, and an Improvement on Merdaneth's take on the story (Although I will admit that his was good, just not good enough). I have no endowments for the fine art of literature but I nevertheless wish to encourage people like Jade and Merdaneth to continue to persue this craft.
Wait ... you actually READ it? Wowie.
Of course I read it... You mean you did not? |
Nemesor
Gallente Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 02:59:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Nemesor on 12/06/2009 02:59:50 I speak for Stimulus and Rote Kapelle. I push the big red button. It is mine. I told you Jade, I had neither the time nor inclination to wage war between The Star Fraction and us. Somehow, you have ignored that, and let these pilots bait you into a frenzy.
While they are pilots of Rote Kapelle, I am under no obligation to censor their opinions. They are freecaptains afterall.
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Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 03:08:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Nemesor Edited by: Nemesor on 12/06/2009 02:59:50 I speak for Stimulus and Rote Kapelle. I push the big red button. It is mine. I told you Jade, I had neither the time nor inclination to wage war between The Star Fraction and us. Somehow, you have ignored that, and let these pilots bait you into a frenzy.
While they are pilots of Rote Kapelle, I am under no obligation to censor their opinions. They are freecaptains afterall.
I am webified with your authority, pod me quick before I am satisfied. --- [Don't Think Differently, Think Critically.] |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 03:15:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Nemesor
I speak for Stimulus and Rote Kapelle. I push the big red button. It is mine. I told you Jade, I had neither the time nor inclination to wage war between The Star Fraction and us. Somehow, you have ignored that, and let these pilots bait you into a frenzy.
I ignored you because you have proved to be impotent. Other voices are pulling the strings in your alliance and since you are too weak to counsel a respectful tone in your underlings in these matters we have had to chide them in your place.
Quote: While they are pilots of Rote Kapelle, I am under no obligation to censor their opinions. They are freecaptains afterall.
And I am under no obligation to speak other than my true and forthright opinion of your lack of leadership, lack of respect for your betters, and lack of any backbone for backing up your alliance's smacktalk in space. You are reduced in stature since the time you were a Free Captain. Now you are an empty suit mouthing meaningless platitudes and I pity you.
War is close to inevitable at this point. You should probably resign and allow Devilish to take command of Rote Kapelle in name as well as actuality since its offensive to the sensibilities of genuine Free Captains to see the organ-grinder driven by the monkey.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.06.12 03:35:00 -
[116]
Projection: Projection is a primitive form of paranoia. Projection also reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the undesirable impulses or desires without becoming consciously aware of them; attributing one's own unacknowledged unacceptable/unwanted thoughts and emotions to another; includes severe prejudice, severe jealousy, hypervigilance to external danger, and "injustice collecting". It is shifting one's unacceptable thoughts, feelings and impulses within oneself onto someone else, such that those same thoughts, feelings, beliefs and motivations are perceived as being possessed by the other. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.12 03:50:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 12/06/2009 03:50:29
I don't care about your "feelings" Devilish. Keep them to yourself. You want this war, time to man up and do something about it. Impotently posting on the forum like your impotent CEO isn't going to do anything other than portray you as the laughing stock you clearly are. Its time for the wardec and prove your smack or be revealed as exactly the kind of empty vessels that are currently losing horribly in the Great Wildlands. I'm laughing at your reputation. Walk away in shame or come and take the smile from my face. Your choice.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 04:00:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Jade Constantine You want this war, time to man up and do something about it.
If we wanted to pick on poorly trained pilots in T1 cruisers, we'd wardec ... well, any third-rate nobody alliance.
Quote: ... or be revealed as exactly the kind of empty vessels that are currently losing horribly in the Great Wildlands.
Yes, our current campaign's 80% efficiency is simply disgraceful. How did your T1 cruiserfest go? Is it over already? Also, I'm sure all those people who recently Star Fraction were just pleased as punch about how things went. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.12 04:21:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Yes, our current campaign's 80% efficiency is simply disgraceful.
K/D ratio doesn't always tell the story - anyone can bnc on other people's kills. But hey you sound a little bit defensive there. I guess things really aren't going too well after all?
Still I have to keep bringing you back to this. The pure amount of time you've spent huffing and puffing on this thread is impressive! If it ends up without a wardec you know we'll never let you forget it.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Jonny Damordred
Freecaptains' Union Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.06.12 04:27:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Still I have to keep bringing you back to this. The pure amount of time you've spent huffing and puffing on this thread is impressive! If it ends up without a wardec you know we'll never let you forget it.
Nem's already said no. Luckly though, he's not the only one with the button...
Jonny D. |
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 04:50:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Jonny Damordred Nem's already said no. Luckly though, he's not the only one with the button...
What Nemesor says is clearly immaterial since he's obviously not being listened too in any respect whatsoever. Still, hopefully you get bold enough to press it.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Ronaldo Carrare
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Posted - 2009.06.12 05:06:00 -
[122]
Why don't you press your button, Jade? What's your excuse? Why should they get bold and not you? After all...your say you are truly free. Show Eve how free you are.
Also, you've been advertising yourself as being a well educated person, how come you've been misspelling his name all this time? Is it a way to try to insult him? |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 05:07:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Jade Constantine What Nemesor says is clearly immaterial since he's obviously not being listened too in any respect whatsoever.
Unlike your own little alliance, Stimulus is not a corporation (nor is Rote Kapelle an alliance) that is ruled by fiat. Our CEOs and Executors are not dictators for life. They are facilitators of the revolution. It is a thankless job and it is not made any easier by the independent nature of our pilots. Nevertheless, I think I speak for all of us when I say that Nemesor is an imminently competent and efficient executive. You could learn a lot from him ... if you were actually willing or capable of learning. |
Ral K'Daro
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 05:14:00 -
[124]
also, since jade is all abandoned by all these mean-spirited people overwhelmed and consumed with bitter anger over the glorious and triumphant deeds of the past, i submit to you jade's muse-song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCmqzrFL26M |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 05:16:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Nevertheless, I think I speak for all of us when I say that Nemesor is an imminently competent and efficient executive.
How imminent? Is it going to happen in this lifetime?
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Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 05:21:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Devilish Ledoux on 12/06/2009 05:22:51 Ah yes, if you can't debate them with facts (and you can't), attack their spelling and grammar. Good show. Truly, Star Fraction's golden age is far from over. _
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ChipMo
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 05:28:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Ronaldo Carrare Why don't you press your button, Jade? What's your excuse? Why should they get bold and not you? After all...your say you are truly free. Show Eve how free you are.
Also, you've been advertising yourself as being a well educated person, how come you've been misspelling his name all this time? Is it a way to try to insult him?
We make no excuses, we are NRDS. Despite all this talk, snide remarks and slander, they have not attacked us in space and so are not red... I get the impression its just a matter of time now until they lash out though & when they do they die. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.12 05:28:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Ah yes, if you can't debate them with facts (and you can't), attack their spelling and grammar. Good show. Truly, Star Fraction's golden age is far from over.
Wait you were interested in "debate"? You've done nothing but bring poor-quality offtopic smacktalk to this thread for the last three pages and now you want a "debate?"
Debate what? Your essentially gutless craven nature or your inability to form a cogent argument? Debate! You make me laugh.
You aren't worthy of debate only scorn. Get away you pointless waste-of-skin.
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Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.06.12 05:47:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Devilish Ledoux on 12/06/2009 05:48:03
Originally by: Jade Constantine I'm largely impervious to any kind of trolling and simply turn the energies of detractors to the useful service of promoting the message I want promoted.
I'd like to take the opportunity to quote this again, to point out the utter absurdity of it, based on your recent responses. _
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ChipMo
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 06:04:00 -
[130]
Edited by: ChipMo on 12/06/2009 06:04:28
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux
I'd like to take the opportunity to quote this again, to point out the utter absurdity of it, based on your recent responses.
Dragging Stimulus & Rote Kapelle's name through the dirt making yourself look like an utter imbecile to 'troll' the ever so irrelevant Jade Constantine? No, I don't think so. I think you are trying to shy away from your earlier boasts of superiority in some attempt to dig your way out of this hole you've put yourself in.
Whatever, if you have the stones bring it. If not by all means carry on talking trash & and I'll continue to laugh in your face. |
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Nemesor
Gallente Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 06:17:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Nemesor on 12/06/2009 06:21:10 You call me impotent. I say I am indifferent.
I see no need to wardec someone that poses little to no threat to my organization. Feel free to push YOUR button if it helps you sleep. I find myself caring less and less as time goes by.
Still, I suppose I owe you thanks for reminding me why I do not browse these forums anymore. I take my leave now.
Nemesor Adarmard
|
Ronaldo Carrare
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 07:49:00 -
[132]
Originally by: ChipMo Edited by: ChipMo on 12/06/2009 06:04:28
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux
I'd like to take the opportunity to quote this again, to point out the utter absurdity of it, based on your recent responses.
Dragging Stimulus & Rote Kapelle's name through the dirt making yourself look like an utter imbecile to 'troll' the ever so irrelevant Jade Constantine? No, I don't think so. I think you are trying to shy away from your earlier boasts of superiority in some attempt to dig your way out of this hole you've put yourself in.
Whatever, if you have the stones bring it. If not by all means carry on talking trash & and I'll continue to laugh in your face.
Jade is still very relevant. Quite relevant if you ask me. So is SF. Would you like to conduct a poll to see how relevant you have become during the last...let's say last year? You're becoming more and more relevant by the day.
Also, I like the excuse you use for not pressing the buttons. Being it the red one or the f1-f8. Jade, Chip...you could really teach them a lesson you know. |
Tara Armitage
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 08:32:00 -
[133]
Well well.
It is a bit sad to see really how some old friends seem to be pulling the wrong strings. You do realize, Dev and the posse, that the strings you should be pulling are Nemesor's? He has the by now quite famous button you have any business being interested in.
It is quite clear and it has been for a while that some of you want a war. To that end the five? of you have been machinating for months now. What I don't understand - and feel free to enlighten me in private - is why all the bother, hot air, huffing puffing and relay trolling? You have a button, Nemesor has it, and him being an extremely capable individual I am certain that if your reasons are good enough he'll press it. Apparently your reasons among other things such as your manners fail. And therefore you are trying to get us to press ours.
Now as far as any of this crap you are spewing, Dev, what is it to you? What business do you think it is of yours to come and tell us how to operate - just what sort of fantasies do you have about who you are? You are in a completely different organisation now, and you have been so for a good while. There is a deep and quite ****ing honestly very valuable history between those organisations and even more especially between individuals in those organisations. You and the handful of others and you chaps know who you are, are being childish selfish and generally asses. Did I say selfish? Stop it.
There is simply no reason for us to interact on the political level at this time. Only reasons for this ongoing drama of fail that has been going on for months are personal - on your side.
Snap out of it, chaps. Like - now.
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Weirda
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.06.12 08:49:00 -
[134]
Much <3 to all of you!
Weirda not understand most this though.
__ weirda
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Azure Skyclad
Amarr Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.12 08:59:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Weirda Much <3 to all of you!
Weirda not understand most this though.
You and me both m'luv.
http://ultravixen.co.uk/ |
Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 10:08:00 -
[136]
And here we are. Two entities existing in the vastness of New Eden. Two organisations who rarely catch but a glimpse of the other. They went their way; we were ours. They believe they are right; we believe we are. Old egos, old arguments rear once again to clash with each other in the only place we can regularly see one another. Galnet. Oh how FTL communication is a two edged sword.
That the organisations of Rote Kapelle and The Star Fraction disagree on a number of issues such ROE, target choice and tactics amongst others is of little surprise. It was for these reasons, amongst others, that Stimulus was created after all. That separation has bred a distance between us is again of no surprise even with the best of intentions the closeness of the individual members will diminish without proximity and interaction.
Yet there is a bond. Behind the bile filled words. Behind the accusations and inflammatory words. Behind the egos there are the pilots. The membership of the Star Fraction look to Rote Kapelle and see old comrades and brothers in arms who may be operational under different guides now but still feel the same as they always did and are loved. Rote Kapelle pilots who look back on where they once were with fondness. That they are no longer with us is a sadness that will not diminish but we wish them well in what they have chosen. That we believe in one mode of operation and they believe in another is the irrelevance. We embrace our friends of old and all the bluster, talk and saber rattling diminishes not our bond.
The pilots of the The Star Fraction stand firm in our beliefs, our ideals and our goals. We fight how we want to fight, how we best assess our need and how we best assess our potential success. The pilots of Rote Kapelle stand firm in their beliefs, their goals and their ideals. They fight how they want to fight, how they best assess their need and how they best assess their potential success. That these are different is inevitable. That these are hols up as examples of failure on the others part is laughable.
We were one. Now we are two. Now we hold to the future promise in different ways.
As always fly free pilots of Rote Kapelle. Fly how you chose. We shall.
---
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Tainted OrPHeN
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 11:15:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Weirda Much <3 to all of you!
Weirda not understand most this though.
I'm with you. |
Sykes
Queens of the Stone Age Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 11:59:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Weirda Much <3 to all of you!
Weirda not understand most this though.
Quite so ...
I'm very proud to have been part of Star Fraction just as I'm very proud to be part of Queens and Rote Kapelle now.
Good hunting comrades ...
|
Te Kahu
Freecaptains' Union Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 13:17:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Heartstone
As always fly free pilots of Rote Kapelle. Fly how you chose. We shall.
Perhaps, some time, you'll tell me the stories of what it's like to fly as you do. I've heard from those who've chosen to leave the Fraction, but little from those who choose to stay.
If we met to talk, I might begin by proposing that we both have clarity of purpose. We focus on the clarity: on directness of action and choosing not to limit ourselves as we explore what we can become. You focus on the purpose, accepting limits on your freedoms as you strive to make your actions part of a greater story.
We both, in our different ways, seek to be free. We both desire to fly in the company of those we respect and value.
We can both put out an awful lot of verbage...
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Tatsue Nuko
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 14:09:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Tara Armitage You do realize, Dev and the posse, that the strings you should be pulling are Nemesor's?
I pull his string every time I get the chance. Just not the war declaration string. There are far more interesting parts to pull at.
Originally by: Tara Armitage Apparently your reasons among other things such as your manners fail.
This is a common occurance when people decide an other party is not worthy of respect. Your alliance has certain amounts of experience with this phenomenon.
Originally by: Heartstone [Several paragraphs of worthy text]
I do not have anything to correct, add or critique in your post, rather I want to express my general agreement with it.
Other posts directed at, or referencing, or quoting, myself I shall let rest for now, since there are better things to do and from what I saw not all that much worth responding to. There are a few things that do need some brief comments, but this will have to wait until a time when there are less important things to do.
Oh, but the person that tried to score points through flattering my intelligence in order to use me as a rhethorical weapon against the good freecaptain Ledoux: do not presume to understand or overrule my judgements - especially judgements of people that I know a lot more intimately than you do.
But if you are actually interested in the philosophy I have abbreviated in this thread, a more personable circumstance could probably be arranged for a discussion. After all, the one prevailing value of social interaction that cannot in any way be replaced by our current technologies is that of testing your ideas against those of fellow thinkers in order to expose flaws in one's thinking.
|
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Kimochi Rendar
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2009.06.12 14:40:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Aphoxakhan Oh, dear, I am getting dizzy. This chatter hums by too viscous to can catch in my thin hands. Slow down, darling egg shell toddlers, let me play along.
The argument is polarity of cascading thought. You can never understand each other because the matter would be destroyed in the moment it collided. Instead of going against, it is time to turn together at a right angle, then swim together to make a helix of marvellous power.
Open the parachute and land gently, lovely captains.
Kimochi tilts her head to one side slightly.
What a delightfully bizarre creature you are... What I wouldn't give to see the world through your eyes, it must be quite spectacular.
Director of Diplomacy | IC Blog |
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 14:45:00 -
[142]
For the avoidance of doubt, I certainly did mean to say that Tatsue made an error when she described us as 'jailed to the concept of being in servitude to the greater cause of humanity as a collective' and, further, went on to say of us: 'through your ideology you are still considering yourselves subservient to a greater good that diminishes and insults your own potential.'
I still consider that an error in her analysis of our ideology and actions. So much for that though, for I see no great benefit in discussing that and other philosophical matters in the context of the most recent contributions to this discussion. To continue in this vein would have even less merit than refuting true enemies after ten different variations of the same argument have been gone through. After all, with respect to former comrades of mine, the truth is that there is no principled enmity here that makes any sense.
Ultimately, I have better things to do and I actually think virtually all involved do too. No doubt I will return to the principles of anarchism at other times. As far as this thread goes, I am done.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 15:34:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Nemesor You call me impotent. I say I am indifferent.
And thats the anarchist tragedy of Stimulus really Nemesor. Indifference is a disease that leads to alienation, isolation and the dangerous delusions of elitist fancy and eccentric irrelevance.
Devilish Ledaux may be a raving lunatic but at least he's a passionate raving lunatic. He cares about something regardless of how wrong he is on every level of his argument and ill-mannered ranting. In many ways he has served as a kind of reverse prophetic voice of contrary revelation on this thread, with almost everything he's said meaning the opposite.
By rounding on the use of cheap and effective tech1 ships he demonstrates how little he ever learned of the Star Fraction message of revolution - that new technology can be used by the underdog to replicate weapons of resistance to take back their freedom from the dominant tyrannies of the universe.
By condemning the NRDS policy as a flawed principle in favour of solipsist NBSI self-worship you isolate yourselves from the revolution you claim to continue. A revolution without public appeal is a revolution that will die out as flames without oxygen. Each neutral pilot you murder is another potential loss for the cause. You rage against 0.0 spaceholders while committing yourselves to wanton random violence and gate-camping tyranny as regressive as anything your enemies can conceive. You have become the monsters you fight.
By reviling the Star Fraction campaign against capsuleer militias in favour of meaningless jousts against nullsec warlords he prefers he loses sight of the struggle overwhelmed by the bloodshed of the moment. One delusion SF has never practised is the fiction of the "roadtrip" where one band of interstellar warlords will rattle their sabres in the faces of another for a few weeks then move on having accomplished nothing but ship kills and loses and no lasting change. Yet when called to account for his own achievements the K/D ratio is all - even when said ratio is tempered and tampered and adjusted weekly to avoid negative traits.
I will tell you now K/D ratio is meaningless. The revolutionary fight that true anarchist movements need to engage with is the memetic taint spreading from the core empires to the frontier and smashing your hulls against entrenched powers achieves nothing but staving aside the ennui of your foes while young minds are twisted by imperialism and turned into territorial drones behind your back in the engines of factional warfare.
You may find my words spoken here to be equally harsh Nemesor. But I rail against indifference as the doom of passion and defeat of revolutionary stimulus. You have settled into a banal and mundane routine without story and fame, without grandeur and dramatic excess. You have allowed the elitist pilots in your order to convince you with their mediocre rhetotic that elitism is the same as accomplishment and merely saying a thing makes it so. I have to tell you it does not.
Now though with the intervention of more moderate and reasonable voices its become apparent that Devilish doesn't speak for many at all. Jonny, Tatsue perhaps. Bacchanalian drummed into the cause as an unwilling participant to strengthen the rhetoric. But thats it. Fair enough then. His list of names was mere theatrical device disconnected entirely from reality. And that is a good thing.
I will allow myself to believe that Rote Kapelle has the capacity to change and evolve and for the memory of the comrades I have in that organization who still honour the shared history we have I'll hope for the best and dare to dream that these estranged anarchists can one day resdiscover the cause and bright revolutionary fervour.
***
For now we'll return to discussion of the op and in the absence of any clear suggestion of incoming hostility from Rote Kapelle resolve to ignore Devilish and coterie henceforth as irrelevant to diplomatic implication.
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Weirda
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 16:10:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Weirda on 12/06/2009 16:11:06 Weirda believe that Nemesor mean he indifferent to personal attack made against him. This make Weirda proud as that is own philosophy too. He larger then "Himself" (something that we should all aspire to be).
That said - Weirda also believe that you know little of our current campaign and therefore have little room to talk. While on other hand, SF Campaign (by their nature) are very public. There are certainly many level of "work" going on (with regard to Assymetric Warfare) that do not (and will not by their nature) reflect itself in K/D ratio or any other "externally visible" mean. However this thing are measure internally and there little doubt (as evidence by their increasing frustration) that being measure by enemy as well.
"You say you want a revolution Well you know We'd all want to change the world You tell me that it's evolution Well you know We'd all want to change the world"
(Weirda aware of next line - and purposely omit)
To look back to ancient earth history, one might say that what we do is simply different perspective on ideology that you profess (think our MalcolmX to you Martin Luther King). This comparison is not to place either of our ideology into those camp, but to reflect that similar goal can have different approach. You, of anyone, should be well aware of this.
Perhaps we just enjoy killing those that we know are already guilty. Weirda happy to cast stone in knowing that target have bag of his own stone (though many seem to lack certain stones altogether)...
You own Sabre-Rattle as well as personal attack on those not involve in this discussion and implication of such judgment toward other member of Rote Kapelle sadden Weirda greatly. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.12 16:27:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Weirda
To look back to ancient earth history, one might say that what we do is simply different perspective on ideology that you profess (think our MalcolmX to you Martin Luther King). This comparison is not to place either of our ideology into those camp, but to reflect that similar goal can have different approach. You, of anyone, should be well aware of this.
If you were doing the public relations for Rote Kapelle I don't think this argument would have happened in the first wierda. But now it has and tempers have been vented and much truth has been spoken. As I said in my previous post I will allow myself to hope that Rote Kapelle can evolve into something I can take pride in seeing ex-comrades involved with again.
Regardless of other sentiments I wish you well on a personal level Wierda. Fly safe.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Tatsue Nuko
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 17:29:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Jade Constantine By condemning the NRDS policy as a flawed principle in favour of solipsist NBSI self-worship you isolate yourselves from the revolution you claim to continue. A revolution without public appeal is a revolution that will die out as flames without oxygen.
This here is at the heart of the matter insofar as philosophy and ideology goes.
You consider that you need the masses to grant oxygen to the flames of the revolution. We realize that we ourselves are the oxygen for those flames.
This is exactly what I mean when I say that you are jailing yourselves into dependance and servitude to those who are not your peers. Those who deem that they need the support of the masses will find themselves forced to appeal to the masses and thereby dilute themselves. This is the tragedy. You need the masses, therefore you have to appeal to them, therefore you have to make concessions to them, therefore you neuter yourself, your capability, and your entire cause.
We realize that we do not need the masses. The whole point of what is happening is the fact that we need only ourselves - that is what sets us apart from the entirety of human history, and that is the fundamental beauty offered - a society where no interaction is borne on necessity but only on mutual benefit, camaraderie, and all association is entirely voluntary, devoid of social and economic pressures.
---
I do have some points of disagreement with Cosmo, but out of respect for his great contributions to transhuman theory and his desire to not continue this jigsaw here, I shall refrain.
Doctor, if a more suitable thread appears, I would love to take you to task in this to see where I may have to refine my position.
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Bad Harlequin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.12 18:53:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Aphoxakhan The argument is polarity of cascading thought. You can never understand each other because the matter would be destroyed in the moment it collided. Instead of going against, it is time to turn together at a right angle, then swim together to make a helix of marvelous power.
I understood this. It made sense to me. I believe it to be correct. Should I be worried?
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Weirda
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.06.12 21:46:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Bad Harlequin
Originally by: Aphoxakhan The argument is polarity of cascading thought. You can never understand each other because the matter would be destroyed in the moment it collided. Instead of going against, it is time to turn together at a right angle, then swim together to make a helix of marvelous power.
I understood this. It made sense to me. I believe it to be correct. Should I be worried?
guilty __ weirda http://pewpew.me (Home of Manlove)
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Khanid Voltar
Zarathustra's Dionysian Modernists
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Posted - 2009.06.13 10:14:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Khanid Voltar on 13/06/2009 10:16:45 Edited by: Khanid Voltar on 13/06/2009 10:14:43
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Quote: Still these little dramas usually don't end until one or other organization is destroyed. One day you'll find the courage to try it.
And the mad matriarch chews over old glories in her crumbling manse, hissing over the percieved threat of her long-lost son. "One day, he will come to supplant me!" she shrieks. "He'll come to take away everything, but I shall be ready!" as she continues to poison the family, doing more damage than the prodigal son ever could ... never realizing that the prodigal son has moved on and has no desire for lordship over such a ragged and diseased house.
This sums up Jade to a T. Respect to the rest of the Fraction, but this days when I think of Jade I think of a gibbering madwoman, growling and gnashing her teeth in the darkness saying we ARE still relevant...
It is quite shocking how many of your supposed ex-comrades end up in the ideological scrapheap.
I think the reason that so many people who leave your corp feel so disappointed when they leave it, is that it truly is a GREAT idea (the corp ideology I mean) completely screwed up by their insane CEO.
Well said to most of the Stim members, and good to see so many old faces in this thread.
Kuna
PS. Before you start Jade yes I am a bit emo. Please refrain from using your usual ad hominems to dispute mine and everyone else points, it really does show your limitations in verbal debate.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.13 14:39:00 -
[150]
What's interesting to note in the condemnations of former revolutionaries like yourself Khanid Voltar (or rather Captain Kuna, if you believe yourself able to speak on his behalf) is the degree to which the ad hominem term is used so flexibility to pre-emptively rebuff criticism of the individuals actions while never applying to condemnation and florid assaults against the name Jade Constantine. It's almost as if in the minds that conceive these arguments Jade Constantine is no longer a person that can be attacked in the terms of the ad hominem argument.
Rather she is the argument, the metaphysical ground-zero, the target zone. On one level its curiously dehumanizing to be treated more like a philosophical ideal than a person but I imagine it bespeaks more than anything the frustration on the part of those grappling for a way to attack the figure of a woman who has remained consistent in ideology and focus for a very long time.
Typically one could assault any long-standing idealist leader with the charge of hypocrisy, or moral cowardice, or lassitude or backsliding or any one of a dozen human failings and hope to find purchase in the factual representation of such indicators. But here in this thread we have nothing of that. Merely accusations on the ad hominem level of "madness" "gnashing of teeth" "growling" and whatever febrile adjectives can be conjured without recourse to solid argument.
All ending of course in the accusation of ad hominem after a post full of ad hominem. Truly this is why I have very little respect for the term. I believe it is used most commonly by those incapable of engaging in honest debate desiring mainly to hurl in an invective grenade and escape into the forum night without return fire. "Ad hominem" like the charge"hypocrisy!" have been devalued in the coinage of debate on these forums.
Still, that point aside, lets address the reason why many ex-revolutionaries feel disappointed or as you say "on the ideological scrapheap". You allege it's because I am a "gibbering madwoman" "insane" "gnashing my teeth" so we'll take that as the argument.
I would counter that it's because they are unhappy with their failure to make a mark in the Fraction and in their return to mundane corporations and typical organizational hierarchies elsewhere they are often beset by frustration, sense of ennui and general unease at the status quo. Now you may dismiss this as an ad hominem attack of course - but in Kuna's case let's examine the reality of his departure from the Fraction:
In Star Fraction Kuna had a voice. He was a Free Captain. He had a forum for his opinions and beliefs. He was listened too. He was trusted to take part in fleets. We even encouraged him to lead them on occasion. He took part in strategy meetings - he had a vote on critical campaign discussions. He was part of an organization fighting ideological wars against regressive foes and his role and identity was important. He was valued as an individual. Sure sometimes he was a lone voice - sometimes votes went against him. Sometimes he was disagreed with. Sometimes he was frustrated and angered, sometimes he was argued against passionately.
But through it all he was seen as that sovereign individual Free Captain we speak of. And that's the ultimate draw of the Fraction for many. That's the GREAT IDEA you speak of that you consider the "insane CEO" has destroyed.
In any other organization in known space Kuna would have been fired and ejected as a troublemaker and contrary voice almost immediately. Or he would have been ordered to shut up and be silent and knuckle down, certainly wouldn't have been trusted with fleet command.
In your heart you know this to be true. So this was why Kuna loved the Star Fraction. But it was also why he came to hate the Star Fraction. Because the kicker is that while he had the voice and respect and individual sovereignty I speak of, so does everyone else.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.13 14:41:00 -
[151]
And the Fraction can be a very harsh environment for those wishing to promote change and reform and new ideas - not because its naturally conservative or respectful of any status quo, but simply because new ideas must be sold to the assembly of Free Captains and debated and defended. The Star Fraction cannot be dictated too - it can only be persuaded. And that was ultimately what Kuna failed to do.
We have many Free Captains who come from troubled backgrounds, who have seen the universe and grown unsettled with the status quo. We are a home to troublemakers and rogue personalities, to heretics and freedom fighters, to contrary libertarians and anti establishment bravos, anarchists, anarcho-capitalists, mad-scientists and eccentric innovators of every race and culture.
Do you really think it would be possible to persuade such a community of individuals to do anything without time and effort and good arguments?
It isn't of course. And even I (the mad matriarch, the insane CEO, the tyrant and dictator who rules by fiat and evil magnetism) need to present my plans to the Fraction, defend them in public debate, take questions, make changes, compromise, restate points and then ultimately put them to the floor for voting by the membership.
Is this inefficient and frustrating? Sometimes yes it is.
Do we make mistakes? Of course we do, nothing in life has any business being perfect.
Do we lose our tempers, snarl and sulk and gnash our teeth in rage? Of course speaking truthfully who doesn't? We are all human-beings, we all have individual ego and personal frustrations.
But the questions you (or Kuna rather) needs to consider are these:
Does any campaign decision get made in the Fraction that is not ultimately presented, debated, and voted on by the membership of the alliance?
Was Kuna driven to quit the Fraction by the lone enmity of an evil mad tyrant CEO clashing her teeth and persecuting him with vindictive rage?
Or was Kuna ultimately unable to convince the majority of the membership round to the validity of his arguments on their logic and appropriate utility to the interests of the Fraction itself?
Is Kuna's condemnation of Jade Constantine as an evil madwoman a truthful picture of the Fraction leadership or is it simply an expression of his frustration at being unable to convince the Free Captains and inability to persuade Jade Constantine to join his side in open and free debate?
Only you (or Kuna) can answer these points honestly for yourself.
But as for why so many ex-revolutionaries are bitter ideological outcasts on the "scrapheap" as you describe. I'd say the reason is not so very difficult to puzzle out. Going from the enlightened environment of individual sovereignty and voting rights, of the personal influence of the Free Captain and free association and innovation of the Fraction to almost any other entity in known space will be a shocking and almost degrading experience, that I can only imagine. One moment you are valued as an individual and listened too, debated with, persuaded and negotiated with. The next you are just a number in the great machine of somebody else's ambition.
Kuna went from Star Fraction to Triumvirate initially. One day he was a proud independent Free Captain with dreams and vision and hopes to persuade his peers. The next he was just a number in a large gang with no voice, no say, no political engagement, just another bandit in somebody else's bandit-army. Nobody asked Kuna what he thought. Nobody needed his vote. Nobody debated anything with him. It must have been a terrible experience for a man once believed in the revolution to be plunged to intellectual darkness and know the company of naught but killers and sullen stony-faced emotionally-dead authority-worshipers.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.13 14:45:00 -
[152]
But to summarise and bring this element of the discussion to a conclusion:
I do find this notion of Jade Constantine the mad-tyrant to be indicative of certain modes of thought recurring in some of the ex-revolutionaries of the Star Fraction, that is true. But it really doesn't hold up to factual consideration of what generally occurred to trigger their absence.
In almost every case those making this accusation have played a part in Star Fraction internal decision-making, have made their arguments internally, have sought to change things to their preferences, have debated and persuaded and cajoled and harangued at turns. Certainly I have had my say internally in counterpoint - we all have. But it all comes down to the vote amongst the member base. And that's both the foundation of Star Fraction political continuity and my pride in the organization.
And its why we hear plenty of "Jade is a mad tyrant" "Jade is an insane dictator" as throwaway hominem attacks to muddy the waters. But we hear nothing of any substantive accusation of actual tyranny or madness.
Where are the tales of "Jade ignored the popular vote!" or "Jade executed the dissidents"" "Jade fired me for speaking my mind!" "Jade stole the corp wallet!" "Jade silenced me and instituted a CAOD ban!" "Jade warp scrambled my CNR and podded me when I left!"
Such anger and rage as is displayed in the words of Devilish Ledaux and Khanid Voltar, Jonny Damordred or Bacchanalian - such accusations of mad-insane-dictatordom. So many slurs and such invective but so few actual tales of wrongdoing and impropriety.
The reality Khanid Voltar is that I Jade Constantine am guilty in the eyes and heart of ex-revolutionaries of generally only one crime. (And can seem a terrible one I'll grant you at the personal level.)
That crime is not being persuaded by those individuals on issues of alliance direction in popular membership votes. I have always (rightly or wrongly) been perceived as having more influence than is "fair" in the Fraction by virtue of long membership and passionate oratory - but when matters come down to the vote I have just one vote like everyone else. If I am not persuaded by somebody I am not persuaded. It doesn't mean I hate them, just I'm not persuaded. In the anarchist community we have built there must be room for disagreement. Sometimes the disagreements are minor and association can remain. Sometimes they are more significant and individuals will seek their personal fortunes elsewhere.
In a hundred cases these partings are amicable and sovereign individuals continue to interact from afar with friendship and mutual respect. But (as with this thread) in every hundred there are a handful who are unhappy with their new circumstances, resentful of the manner of their leaving the Fraction - and sometimes wish to continue the arguments and discussions they lost in the popular vote of Free Captains many years after the tally was counted. Their discontent makes them vocal.
This is life. We are immortals after all. And Immortal troublemakers all, ex-anarchist revolutionaries are likely to be single most fractious and outspoken flammable firebrands in the Star Cluster. In really is no surprise that Star Fraction has more than its share of vocal detractors and absolutely no mystery why I have a continuing support-group of ex-members who consider me an "evil tyrant queen" to blame for whatever personal circumstances they are currently unsatisfied with.
After all, I did commit the cardinal sin of not agreeing with them. I am guilty. That is why their voices are raised in protest. I am to blame for that.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.13 21:39:00 -
[153]
I am bombarded with shrapnel of obliterated diplomacy, the stakes grow fat and I am the cavalier. Green Constantine is rigid with life and death rolled like cake. Explosions resound around my, I am aghast and unable to cope.
War or without, I fire the cannons, launching corpses. --- [Don't Think Differently, Think Critically.] |
Khanid Voltar
Zarathustra's Dionysian Modernists
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Posted - 2009.06.14 07:15:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Stuff
TL;DR.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.14 14:45:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 14/06/2009 14:45:10
Ah dear Khanid Voltar, you came to the thread and asked for a response without ad hominem attacks and I gave you just that. A full and detailed response and analysis of the situation you'd detected. Now it appears that you didn't really want debate or discussion at all and just wanted to stick your own knife in quietly and escape without rebuttal. I guess that says it all really.
And for the record you are second man to type "TL:DR" in this thread whilst quite definitely reading the posts above. If you really didn't read them I suspect you wouldn't have felt the need to make a throwaway comment indicating your lack of interest. Still, thank you for the bump. If you ever feel the need to discuss the conclusions I've reached in relation to Kuna's situation (as described in the posts above) feel free to contact me by eve-mail or private chat and we can certainly address these points outside of public scrutiny.
Until then have a nice life, and I'll hope you find what you are looking for in Eve wherever you finally end up.
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Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.14 15:17:00 -
[156]
Venomous bite's the day in tailspin. Jade has struck and the emotion will elevate, I wait wide eye and close fisted.
What laser beam annihilation the mouth will raze is the lottery I gamble, Ten to one odds.
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Centra Spike
Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.06.14 23:16:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
And its why we hear plenty of "Jade is a mad tyrant" "Jade is an insane dictator" as throwaway hominem attacks to muddy the waters. But we hear nothing of any substantive accusation of actual tyranny or madness.
Where are the tales of "Jade ignored the popular vote!" or "Jade executed the dissidents" "Jade fired me for speaking my mind!"
The Gulag.
Emphasis mine. ------
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.15 00:08:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Jade Constantine
And its why we hear plenty of "Jade is a mad tyrant" "Jade is an insane dictator" as throwaway hominem attacks to muddy the waters. But we hear nothing of any substantive accusation of actual tyranny or madness.
Where are the tales of "Jade ignored the popular vote!" or "Jade executed the dissidents" "Jade fired me for speaking my mind!"
The Gulag.
Emphasis mine.
Er what?
Who was fired for speaking their mind? Who was executed for disagreeing with the majority?
Heartsonte - confused as all hell ---
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Khanid Voltar
Zarathustra's Dionysian Modernists
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Posted - 2009.06.15 07:33:00 -
[159]
Edited by: Khanid Voltar on 15/06/2009 07:35:41 reserved
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Tecam Hund
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.15 11:39:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Khanid Voltar Edited by: Khanid Voltar on 15/06/2009 07:42:55 Edited by: Khanid Voltar on 15/06/2009 07:41:12 Edited by: Khanid Voltar on 15/06/2009 07:39:18 [EDIT] Forum malfunction; Jade do not fear I will respond and refute your points thoroughly later, more important things to do you see than talk to a mad woman.
I do know how you crave the front page, so consider this a mocking bump.
PS. H; Jade asked me to leave for speaking my mind, why do you think I reacted so badly when 2 days later SF decided to attack the militia I was forced out into. Over it now though :).
Kuna left once, came back, and left again three months later. Definitely on good terms the first time with everyone wishing him well, and on what seems to be good terms the second time as well. I think I have a good idea about what caused the second leave. At any rate there was no drama or animosity.
Yet, now, a year later Kuna sends you to pick a bone with Jade in public over how he was "forced" out of SF into a militia.
I've only one thing to say. If people were forced out of Star Fraction for disagreeing with Jade, I would be nowhere near this alliance. |
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.15 12:02:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 15/06/2009 12:04:19 Well Khanid Voltar, while you formulate your rebuttal to the posts earlier lets deal with the inaccuracies in the current assertion shall we?
Skipping over the ad hominem attack (shocking that you would continue to use these after all the song and dance you made about the tactic earlier isn't it?)
(This is specific to the second exit of Kuna from SF by the way. Since I imagine we both know the first exit when he left for TRI was accompanied by a detailed leaving post explaining his reasons and respect for all of us and the alliance there.)
So this is about the Second Exit some months later -
Captain Kuna was not asked to leave Star Fraction for speaking his mind. He was asked to leave Star Fraction and drop roles because he had made up his mind to leave already (for the second time) and was using the alliance as a convenient "waiting-room" while applying to other corps and alliances and not aiding Star Fraction in any material way.
After seeing Kuna talking in Alliance chat of his resolution to depart as soon as he got a successful acceptance from Reikoku or Outbreak I opened a private conversation with him and suggested that if he was absolutely resolved to depart the alliance it would be polite to drop roles and actually leave rather than using us as temporary holding identity pending successful applications elsewhere.
The result of Kuna's applications to these illustrious external corporations are his own business. But by the same measure the Star Fraction's campaign decisions and objectives are ours. Not sure where Kuna ended up, but you Khanid Voltar were a 24th Crusader and our ideological foe by your own choice.
Star Fraction moved into a formal war of suppression against the State Protectorate some days later which we'd been planning for several weeks (including logistical moves, base relocation, planning and intel work) and regardless of Kuna's personal suspicions to the contrary this target selection had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with his second exit from the Star Fraction.
I find it somewhat incredible that you (or Kuna) can appear to believe that an organization of a hundred Free Captains could spend several weeks preparation and billions of ISK in intel and combat expense to make war on a Militia entity purely to persecute a single wanderlust-prone ex member who had decided that regressive imperialist dogma was more to his taste than idealistic radical free-space idealism.
While I do remember Kuna's angry pro-state ranting on our alliance public forums - I would reiterate that the reasons for him being asked to leave the alliance was purely that he had already decided to leave and had posted publicly and privately about this intention and was doing nothing in alliance chat but talk about his prospective career-choices while we were attempting to run combat ops and continue our own operations.
I would think that most people reading this will understand why he was asked to leave. He was certainly not "forced" into any Militia. That was purely his own choice and required him to fly to the appropriate office and click "apply".
***
In conclusion I would ask you to ensure you speak a little more truthfully on these issues when you do get round to publishing your formal rebuttal to my earlier posts.
Ordinarily I don't like commenting on the circumstances of previous members departures - but I have at my disposal the posts, chatlogs, and physical records of what was said, when and why. I will not put this material into the public domain pre-emptively - but I will use this material to correct obvious lies and distortions of the truth on your part where appropriate.
Do consider just how much public exposure of these discussions you are prepared to withstand before making further false accusations against my actions. On review I am quite convinced that Kuna was treated fairly and with great patience on the part of SF alliance leadership and the leaving posts from the time bear this out.
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Khanid Voltar
Zarathustra's Dionysian Modernists
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Posted - 2009.06.15 17:32:00 -
[162]
I do regret making that post earlier, it has allowed Jade to do her usual and make a thread about something entirely different to what it was.
I left 3 times actually but who's counting. After the penultimate time a director gave me a exit interview where I explained my reasons for leaving and they suggested I tried to stay and help JF change. When I came back the third and final time it was to try and do what that Director had told me, to help JF evolve for the better.
Anyway, as I said this morning, I reacted badly on what happened after the last time, and for what its worth I do apologise; my behaviour was that of a petulant child and was nothing to be proud about.
However Jade, my opinions of you over the entire period have never changed one jot. Much as you scribble away inaccuracies desperate to turn the conversation away from my original point that you were insane, you simply prove that you are incapable of having a reasoned debate.
For what its worth I still haven't read your original rebuttal, although I have skimmed... you seem to lecture me at first on what an ad hominem is, and then spend the next few post denouncing my ability to have any sort of judgement on the matter (maybe you should check out what being ad hominem actually is?). I cannot say for certain what else was there as I know it infuriates you all the more that I cannot be bothered to read it properly and react to the various jibes put there to make me react to your advantage.
See that's you all over Jade. A dried up journo hack desperate for the front page again, willing to say or do anything that will arouse a negative reaction in your opponent. Very sad that you cannot reason without being inciteful. Seriously can you honestly say that you have done anything else in this thread?
Before you answer it is a rhetorical question. Your word is worth very little to me, especially when I can judge the answer by your previous responses in this thread.
Still, back to the point of me being here. I was content to mark JF's 6th birthday with a wave in the other channel, but when I saw Dev's post in here I simply had to express my support, not that it was asked for nor even wanted no doubt.
I saw an opportunity to stick the knife in (to Jade, not SF), and would happily take another opportunity to do so in the future.
I would offer you a chance to settle this in 1 to 1 combat, but as we both know you declined my last offer, and anyway, even if you lost you wouldnt change so whats the point.
What Dev said needed to be said, and he needed to be supported in that. What you should have done is taken it onboard and not react like you did.
One final thing... I thought you never got trolled?
I beg to differ. |
Centra Spike
Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
|
Posted - 2009.06.15 17:40:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Heartstone Who was fired for speaking their mind?
If you can't remember, look through your director records.
Originally by: Heartstone Who was executed for disagreeing with the majority?
No one was executed for disagreeing with the majority, as no majority decided on the Gulag campaign. When one 'dissident' presented an alternative plan he was blasted by certain members of the directorate. He was essentially told to put up and shut up or leave.
He left.
Seeing my fellow 'Free-Captain' have his idea shut down by my fellow directors shattered any illusion I had that Star Fraction was a democracy.
So I left.
I enjoyed my time with Star Fraction, enjoyed being a director and enjoyed flying with many of the pilots in this thread, including Jade. But to say that the ex-Star Fraction pilots are making baseless claims is untrue. |
Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.15 17:55:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Heartstone on 15/06/2009 18:04:48 Edited by: Heartstone on 15/06/2009 17:55:48
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Heartstone Who was fired for speaking their mind?
If you can't remember, look through your director records.
After you mentioned this I did look through the directors records for the time I have been with SF and I found only 1 person who has been fired and that was for something else entirely. I honestly don't know what you are referring to. Of course I won't post names and events here from our internal forums as it would be unfair to the person in question.
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Heartstone Who was executed for disagreeing with the majority?
No one was executed for disagreeing with the majority, as no majority decided on the Gulag campaign. When one 'dissident' presented an alternative plan he was blasted by certain members of the directorate. He was essentially told to put up and shut up or leave.
He left.
Well if this is your recollection of the events then fair enough but I must say I disagree with them. Whilst I agree the campaign in question wasn't exactly the most popular idea we have had the majority went along with it and those that didn't want to were free to do other things as comments on the thread in question on the SF internal forums shows. For instance as the aim was to increase the Concord rated security level of our pilots a number of pilots tried ratting and others tried missioning instead.
Obviously much of this is a matter of perspective but I don't see it as you have. I still don't think that anyone has been mistreated in particular by the directors of Star Fraction. Sure some people have been treated harshly but I can't think of an instance where it was undeserved.
Anyway as you say it was fun flying with you and I still remember some of the engagements we flew together with as some of the best fun I've had. Especally that Freighter in KBP just after you bought your first Crow.
Fly well Centra. ---
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.15 17:57:00 -
[165]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 15/06/2009 18:01:58
Originally by: Centra Spike
Originally by: Heartstone Who was fired for speaking their mind?
If you can't remember, look through your director records.
Have to say you are going to have to do better than that Centra. I cannot recall ever firing a Jericho Fraction member in the whole of our history for "speaking their mind". Sorry but you are simply being untruthful here. I have fired Jericho Fraction members in the past - this is true. But I assure you that nobody has ever been kicked from this corporation for having outspoken views and no other fault.
The campaign in question was discussed and agreed by a majority of the alliance at a public meeting. It was discussed, critiqued and ultimately okayed by popular consent albeit with a vocal minority of members disagreeing - some of whom decided on making their protest clear in leaving the alliance. You are incorrect to allege that no majority supported this plan. I'm not going to comment on your "one member disssident" save that I know the case you are speaking of and I still believe matters could have been amicably resolved if people had drawn back from the emotions of the moment and spoken about the situation with the light of dawn the following day. This however was a reasonable outcome and didn't suit the designs of some unreasonable people with their own agendas at that time.
What you describe as a "shut down" was simply forum debate. Star Fraction has a rich and vigourous history of internal discussion and debate on our member forums and frankly one needs to a good sense of perspective and thick skin when things get heated.
Quote: I enjoyed my time with Star Fraction, enjoyed being a director and enjoyed flying with many of the pilots in this thread, including Jade. But to say that the ex-Star Fraction pilots are making baseless claims is untrue.
Sadly Centra you are now making baseless claims on this thread.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.15 18:26:00 -
[166]
Okay Khanid Voltar, reading your latest post lets summarise your position. Kuna joined and left JF 3 times? I think you must admit that means Kuna was never a terribly reliable pilot or a very good fit. Ultimately as I've said to you earlier in this thread Kuna - what tends to happen to some leavers is that they get a bee in their bonnet about the way the alliance is handling campaign decisions, try to persuade people, fail to get a majority behind their position then grow frustrated. In Kuna's case this kept happening.
I honestly lost count of the number of late night conversations I had with Kuna with him trying to convince me to back his plans and ideas for the alliance and use my own oratorical skills to drive them through and champion his cause in debate. Sure I refused, I wasn't convinced. I didn't think Kuna was right and I wasn't prepared to argue on his behalf. But that didn't mean debate was stifled - far from it. I actively encouraged Kuna to place his points on the member forum and support his argument. I actively encouraged Kuna to speak his peace and make his pitch at open meetings and he did. That he was unable to convince a majority of free captains is not evidence of my "mad-tyranny" so much as his failure to make and argue his case. No other conclusion is possible.
You admit your own behaviour was that of a petulant child. Good. Yet you continue to make ad hominem attacks by the by. Without a jot of evidence to support your charges you accuse me of insanity and claim it's impossible to have a reasoned debate. I think this very public debate we are having now would indicate otherwise.
You claim you haven't read my original posts I addressed to you? Then you try to critique those posts? It doesn't work Khanid Voltar. That position has already failed in this thread for Kostantin Mort. Either you have read the posts or you haven't. Either you have read them in which case you haven't "skimmed" anything. Or you haven't and you don't get to critique the content.
You describe me as infuriated? Hardly. I find you a slightly pitiable sight its true and having nailed your colours to the mast of Devilish Ledeux the "great dissident free-captain" you might profitably spend two minutes on your neocom terminal and discover exactly what he's doing right now. I assure you it has nothing to do with furthering the interests of freespace.
You saw an opportunity to put the knife in? You have been misled by a liar and a fraud and have slipped on your own blood and stabbed yourself in the foot. What Devilish said was utter nonsense. Unsupported by anyone with a mind and decried and foresworn by those with honour in his own late alliance.
The fact he has now quit that cause like so many others before and is currently crawling on his knees begging the approval of the cluster's most regressive pigdog imperialists even as we speak - well, what does that say of your good assessment of character I wonder? Devilish is a puling half-man waste-of-skin unworthy of breath. I spit on him.
If you wish single combat I accept. Terms are battleships of choice, no fitting restrictions. We'll can-flag in Kamela, join the same fleet, then fight at a safe spot. Last one to explode or remain on the field is the victor.
Contact me by neocom to signal the days and times you are available.
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Saul Dhampir
Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.15 19:06:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Saul Dhampir on 15/06/2009 19:07:49
Originally by: Tatsue Nuko I consider myself to have proceeded beyond where I was when I was a Star Fraction director.
IĘm really didnĘt want to get involved with all this chest beating and self ************ but I really find this comment interesting.
You say you have proceeded beyond where you were, but I wonder where that is exactly? At first one might assume it was some great new undiscovered country. A new clear vision of Freespace. Yet, if I understand correctly, you abandoned NRDS in favour of NBSI. In simple terms, NRDS is the fundamental foundation and guiding principal on Freespace. Everything else is window dressing. Giving yourself the free reign to shoot at any one at anytime might seem like the ultimate freedom. But what has that got to do with Freespace?
IĘm left thinking that what you have proceeded onto is in fact base piracy.
ItĘs nothing new. And it was discovered a good few millennia ago. Of course IĘm exaggerating. I dare say your not after money at all. You just want to blow things up and have found the NRDS rules get in your way. Coming from some of the former Fraction members who went with you that would be no surprise. But you and some others, like Atan, Bach and Sac I respect tremendously. Why then donĘt you just state the facts:
These days you like to blow stuff up.
Why bother to claim you have anything to do with Freespace anymore?
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slugdo masada
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Posted - 2009.06.15 19:20:00 -
[168]
One small ray of joy for me, amongst all the bitterness and angst from pilots I have flown with and greatly respected over the years, is that the Revolution still has such momentum, and is fought by pilots of such drive, that passions are so clearly enflamed over who is fighting it the hardest. Arguing over who is following the true path to freedom. Reviling former comrades and friends in the name of that which we all fight for.
Like the parents of a child arguing over who loves that child the most, one thing is certain ; that child is loved, and so this revolution will continue. Tremble pigdogs. We'll get to you all eventually.
If you are thinking then you are winning!
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Khanid Voltar
Zarathustra's Dionysian Modernists
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Posted - 2009.06.15 19:44:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 15/06/2009 18:37:21 If you wish single combat I accept.
Terms are battleships of choice, no fitting restrictions. We'll can-flag in Kamela, join the same fleet, then fight at a safe spot. Last one to explode or remain on the field is the victor.
LOL. I thought you might accept if the gauntlet was laid down in public, pity your actions did not speak for your brovado last year when I gave you the chance to silence me.
Yet you declined a year ago and think I would jump at the chance now. You think way way too much of yourself my dear lassie.
I will get a Jade Constantine killmail and a matching corpse to abuse. I have little need to do so at your terms. Personally I rather hope it will be on the same day your titan goes down.... that killmail will be a keeper for certain.
Is it me or has noone besides jericho posted here arguing in your favor?
Pretty weak...
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.15 20:11:00 -
[170]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 15/06/2009 20:13:12
Originally by: Khanid Voltar LOL. I thought you might accept if the gauntlet was laid down in public, pity your actions did not speak for your brovado last year when I gave you the chance to silence me. Yet you declined a year ago and think I would jump at the chance now. You think way way too much of yourself my dear lassie.
You offered a duel with frigates. I told you to come back when you could fly a Battleship. Seems you haven't learned yet.
Quote: Is it me or has noone besides jericho posted here arguing in your favor?
Since you've been posting on matters of internal Jericho Fraction member relations its hardly surprising is it? Bitter ex-members with axes to grind have been tempted out from under their stones like the human slugs they are. Still they weren't good enough for the Fraction back then and they still aren't good enough for the Fraction now. Some things never change.
For our part the revolution goes on. Our wars are fresh and vital and the cause is just and passionate.
Perhaps that memory haunts you as you sit alone in your monastic cell blaming others for your misadventures and isolation?
I'll remember you slightly as I continue taking the shot at the divine and laughing in the face of tyranny. Its more than you deserve.
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Khanid Voltar
Zarathustra's Dionysian Modernists
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Posted - 2009.06.15 20:31:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Khanid Voltar on 15/06/2009 20:36:24 Edited by: Khanid Voltar on 15/06/2009 20:34:48
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 15/06/2009 20:13:12
Originally by: Khanid Voltar LOL. I thought you might accept if the gauntlet was laid down in public, pity your actions did not speak for your brovado last year when I gave you the chance to silence me. Yet you declined a year ago and think I would jump at the chance now. You think way way too much of yourself my dear lassie.
You offered a duel with frigates. I told you to come back when you could fly a Battleship. Seems you haven't learned yet.
Again your lies are so transparent they could only be the result of selective memory. Search your memory my dear girl. What ship did Kuna fly above all else?
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 15/06/2009 20:13:12Since you've been posting on matters of internal Jericho Fraction member relations its hardly surprising is it? Bitter ex-members with axes to grind have been tempted out from under their stones like the human slugs they are. Still they weren't good enough for the Fraction back then and they still aren't good enough for the Fraction now. Some things never change.
For our part the revolution goes on. Our wars are fresh and vital and the cause is just and passionate.
Perhaps that memory haunts you as you sit alone in your monastic cell blaming others for your misadventures and isolation?
I'll remember you slightly as I continue taking the shot at the divine and laughing in the face of tyranny. Its more than you deserve.
Funny how all the best pilots end up as 'not good enough'. How many of these pilots still sit in your killboard top 20? More than half?
Any current Fraction pilot remember these words should you finally see Jade for the braggart she is.
In your own words... it's only once you have lost everything, that you are free to do anything.
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Khanid Voltar
Zarathustra's Dionysian Modernists
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Posted - 2009.06.15 20:44:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 15/06/2009 20:13:12Our wars are fresh and vital
Just caught that... dont you listen to a WORD anyone says?
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.15 22:32:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Khanid Voltar Funny how all the best pilots end up as 'not good enough'. How many of these pilots still sit in your killboard top 20? More than half?
Surprise surprise. We're not an alliance where the killboard is the god. We have lots of absolutely terrible ex-pilots who are high on the killboard but didn't understand the alliance, didn't partake in the campaigns and didn't understand the political ideals for which we fight. By the same count we have truly excellent pilots who are not highly placed on the kill rankings - but are imaginative, innovative, creative thinkers with the staying power to remain committed to a cause rather than getting bored like hyperactive mayflies the moment the obvious targets dry up.
We aren't a regressive NBSI adrenalyn junky corp that needs kills to stave off our ennui. Any pilots that feel that drive end up leaving and joining the ranks of psychotic nobody outfits that will go unremarked into the long night of eve.
Originally by: Khanid Voltar
Originally by: Jade Constantine Our wars are fresh and vital
Just caught that... dont you listen to a WORD anyone says?
I don't listen to a WORD that dogs say. Their opinions mean nothing. If they had the courage of their convictions they'd doubtless do something about it - but like you are too cowardly to back up their animosity in space. Seriously let me make this plain. I don't care what failed revolutionaries think. Not even a little bit.
I have enough committed and capable comrades-at-arms to actually care about. People who have my back when the fighting is hardest and are prepared to sacrifice and strive for the cause.
Why would I give a moment's thought to failures, turncoats and burnouts?
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Khanid Voltar
Zarathustra's Dionysian Modernists
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Posted - 2009.06.15 22:54:00 -
[174]
What a bunch of rhetorical doggerel. Sums you up that statement eh?
Mind you if I were you that's how I would respond as well. The alternative would be quite alarming :).
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.15 22:59:00 -
[175]
Well since you have no answer. No purpose. No guts to fight nor further arguments to make I guess thats it for you. Kuna is mindwiped, you're pointless, good night
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Khanid Voltar
Zarathustra's Dionysian Modernists
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Posted - 2009.06.15 23:04:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Well since you have no answer. No purpose. No guts to fight nor further arguments to make I guess thats it for you. Kuna is mindwiped, you're pointless, good night
More rhetorical doggerel. Someone should change your job title, all you are capable of is ranting on the forums these days, and at that, poorly.
Until we meet in space.
Kuna |
u2 bono
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Posted - 2009.06.15 23:38:00 -
[177]
Edited by: u2 bono on 15/06/2009 23:41:56
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Sadly Centra you are now making baseless claims on this thread.
Happily pointing out the error in grammar.
Originally by: Khanid Voltar Personally I rather hope it will be on the same day your titan goes down.... that killmail will be a keeper for certain.
You'll have to provide the titan.
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Vardemis
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.16 08:00:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Khanid Voltar Edited by: Khanid Voltar on 15/06/2009 20:38:39 [...] Originally by: Jade Constantine [...]Bitter ex-members with axes to grind have been tempted out from under their stones like the human slugs they are. Still they weren't good enough for the Fraction back then and they still aren't good enough for the Fraction now.[...]
[...]Any current Fraction pilot remember the bolded words should you finally see Jade for the braggart she is.[...]
Well you should bold the sentence before as well, since only bitter ex-members might come to that conclusion.
Originally by: Khanid Voltar
[...]Funny how all the best pilots end up as 'not good enough'. How many of these pilots still sit in your killboard top 20? More than half?[...]
There are many ways to fight for the ideals of The Star Fraction, shooting down hostile ships is just one of them, the others are just not as easily noticed.
Just as there are multiple reasons for people to actually try to get on top of the killboard, and not a whole lot fit well with our ideology.
Originally by: Khanid Voltar
[...]Thank You Jade, this is meant from the bottom of my heart, for freeing me of the tyranny that is Star Fraction.
Well, that is certainly an interesting closing statement. If you are glad about leaving, why bother with all the posting in this thread if you can just sum it up in a single sentence? |
Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.16 15:31:00 -
[179]
I am hysterical with heretical glee, Green Rocky Well-Wishings is inspiring with doubt and I jump on the hull of superiority.
I stretch my arms across the cluster to give all of The Lovely Anarchists a hug.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.16 15:40:00 -
[180]
Well having disposed of the last elements of the off-topic derail perhaps its time to turn back to the subject of the thread? It certainly seems that the Amarrian side of the debate has gone very quiet of late - perhaps they have admitted that their rhetorical talents have failed when confronted by the truth of the matters on the world of Paradise?
In any event it would be good to return to matters of philosophical and ideological - and I trust that even through the last four pages of rigourous anarchist schismogenesis with side-helpings of post-idealist fanatical mewling from some quarters have been entertaining and enlightening in its own right, time has come to return to topic.
So. Any Questions?
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
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Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.16 15:57:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Jade Constantine So. Any Questions?
You remind me of uplifting moments of life that have risen me to flourish my blades and feel mighty without fools following me. Explain to me why this is.
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.16 18:03:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
In any event it would be good to return to matters of philosophical and ideological - and I trust that even through the last four pages of rigourous anarchist schismogenesis with side-helpings of post-idealist fanatical mewling from some quarters have been entertaining and enlightening in its own right, time has come to return to topic.
So. Any Questions?
I believe that seeing how anarchist pod pilots handle their disagreements has proven more informative about the anarchist nature and method than your story (or mine) could ever be ms. Constantine.
This thread has proven to be an 'Anarchist Tragedy' in more ways than I could have imagined. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Aphoxakhan
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.16 18:33:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Merdaneth I believe that seeing how anarchist pod pilots handle their disagreements has proven more informative about the anarchist nature and method than your story (or mine) could ever be ms. Constantine.
This thread has proven to be an 'Anarchist Tragedy' in more ways than I could have imagined.
You have shot me, I am dead. I surrender to the logic of mountains, embrace me with swords and shackles. You are far too clever. --------------------------------------------------------------
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Gorion Wassenar
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.06.17 18:43:00 -
[184]
On the lake, the loon is calling long distance. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.18 02:07:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Merdaneth
I believe that seeing how anarchist pod pilots handle their disagreements has proven more informative about the anarchist nature and method than your story (or mine) could ever be ms. Constantine.
Well you've seen the difference between freespace radical anarchists and blood-drinking NBSI anarchists anyways (with a few raving loons to provide amusement value to the thread on the side). But however fervant our opposition to each others choices the one thing we can all agree on is that you are a dog and Amarr deserves to burn.
My account of the settlement and destruction of the colony on Paradise remains and it seems you have no answer. I take it you are convinced now that your earlier fable is entirely void then?
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.23 21:16:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Merdaneth
I believe that seeing how anarchist pod pilots handle their disagreements has proven more informative about the anarchist nature and method than your story (or mine) could ever be ms. Constantine.
This thread has proven to be an 'Anarchist Tragedy' in more ways than I could have imagined.
Indeed it is a tragedy. Still it is hardly a "new" event to witness. Old anarchists realize the truth of the fraction lifestyle and "evolve" to true "freedom" from the cult of ego.
Then a new batch of anarchist meatshields take their place. The brainwashing begins and they rush to defend their existence... but wait awhile and they will come to realize the truth just as all their predecessors have. Maybe they will even join those they criticize today. After all its happened before.
Anarchist tragedy? Yes but perhaps "Fractionist Reality" is more appropriate.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.23 23:37:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Archbishop Indeed it is a tragedy. Still it is hardly a "new" event to witness. Old anarchists realize the truth of the fraction lifestyle and "evolve" to true "freedom" from the cult of ego.
Ah so the bashing bishop growing upset with the relative obscurity of his own latest screed (unpraised by any except puling sychophantic dogs) comes finally to my thread to preach his regressive dogma to those few craven worms shrieking their angst here.
But it is somewhat true. The Anarchist cause like most radical political movements has had its share of failures, dropouts, counter revolutionaries and ideological bankrupts who have chosen to abandon their principles and crawl on their bellies to gain acceptance in regressive organizations they once reviled. The human condition is not perfect, and even revolutionaries can become puling dogs unworthy of life given the right stimulus of mediocrity and banal adherence to the concerns of the common herd.
And it is right for you the arch-regressive and representative of holy hypocrisy in all its colours to preach against individualism and individual ego for such things are anathema to your belief system and hierarchy of pleasing lies. We free individuals do not need your god. We laugh at you when you kneel and we know your true motivation is not to sacrifice but to seek that most fleeting of ambitions; rulership and desire to command.
Quote: ... but wait awhile and they will come to realize the truth just as all their predecessors have. Maybe they will even join those they criticize today. After all its happened before.
Original thought replaces staid and stale thought it is true. The young replace the old. The imaginative replace the thoughtless. The passionate take honours from those bound in ennui and the cycle does continue as it always will. Yet there is no "truth" in failure. There is only failure. Those ex-anarchists who have fallen from individual liberty and exist now as nothing more than callow half-men bound in hierarchy and flattering tyrants for their supper? Do I regret their fall? Yes of course I do for as a living human being with the empathy to see the humiliation in the eyes of once-comrades I could do no less.
Yet do I take lesson or example from anarchists turned tyrants? From individuals turned collectivists? From Freespacers turned roadblockers? From heroes turned villains and from revolutionaries turned oppressors?
No no a thousand times no. I despise these choices and I laugh in the faces of those who have fallen from the cause of freedom to scratch a bare living from the stink and detritus of imperial delusion and all that excremental godslave self-delusion.
None of these fallen anarchists are worthy of my respect or my kind words. There is no kindness to address a drug-addled shell of a previous comrade in glowing terms while seeing the dead-emotion in an eye now incapable of seeing the wonder of the boundless frontier and the hope for humanity in the heavens.
Quote: Anarchist tragedy? Yes but perhaps "Fractionist Reality" is more appropriate.
The Anarchist tragedy of the thread is the story I have told of the fate of Paradise. Those without the wit to read those words and learn why it is impossible for freedom to flourish without cutting away the cancer of the old empires are due only pity.
The Fractionist Reality? Well, we have seen what happens to men and women who have given up their dreams in this very thread. Wasted half-creatures incapable of attaining the wonders they once aspired to and reduced to crawling on their knees like slaver-hounds snuffling for hand-outs from the 0.0 tyrants.
I tell you something. Those proud anarchists who once carried the names we have seen in this thread would not allow me to speak of them so without recourse. But those men and women are dead. I mourn their memory even as I despise the shabbling half-creatures that wear a mockery of their names today.
That is tragedy.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.24 01:16:00 -
[188]
Quote: Ah so the bashing bishop growing upset with the relative obscurity of his own latest screed (unpraised by any except puling sychophantic dogs) comes finally to my thread to preach his regressive dogma to those few craven worms shrieking their angst here.
To be called a "worm" in the opening sentence of a Queen Anarchist reply indicates I have indeed struck a nerve. Normally you have to wait three to four posts for the cries of "insect", "dog" or "worm" to emerge. I readily admit my name is less known among the cluster then yours but I can attribute that only to the fact your comments are usually three to four times as long as mine. I do not dare believe I match the propoganda machine of the Queen Anarchist although I likewise admit I am very happy to not be you as I'm sure 99% of the cluster is.
Then again when I post it is for the enlightenment of the masses. I have a hope the light of faith and inspiration will shine into the hearts of my fellow man. The glory of God and Empire are shining beacons I desire to share with all.
You on the other hand post for... we'll... I'll let your reputation speak for itself.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 04:34:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Archbishop To be called a "worm" in the opening sentence of a Queen Anarchist reply indicates I have indeed struck a nerve.
No, it merely indicates that you are a worm.
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.24 13:40:00 -
[190]
In a way yours must be a horribly lonely life. People join your group only to realize in the end it's all about you and not the cause of anarchy. Then they leave and find true freedom from the cult of ego forcing you once again to lure in a new batch of pilots you can brainwash for temporary companionship. Until in the end they realize the anarchist they fight for is really a dictatorship and leave.
Then the new replace the old just as you said. It's a regular cycle and is as predictable as the seasons.
I know if I were a young fractionist I would be contacting some of the former fractionist pilots who have posted here. I wouldn't be wasting months being a part-time anarchist and full-time meatshield. After all having free access to knowledge is a key part of freedom is it not? I would be asking why so many prominent anarchists are all saying the same thing.
You have my sympathy... I know not how you wake up each morning not knowing how many of your new pilots will realize the truth and abandon you today. It must be very stressful.
Perhaps prayer would help? Allow me to offer this simple prayer as you yet again live your own Anarchist Tragedy.
Dear God hear our prayer. Help the misguided anarchist see the error of her ways. Help her to recover from her life of lonliness and help heal the dislike so many have of her. Lord you are strong, wise and just. In your name we pray this... Amen.
While you would never be able to truly achieve salvation you can face your sins and repent for them. Embrace God and finally find peace.
Archbishop
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 13:55:00 -
[191]
It is funny Archie. You talk as if nobody has ever left PIE for an organisation that is opposed to your own beliefs which is, as we both know, certainly not the case. Do you see them differently from how Jade sees those fallen from our path?
---
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 14:37:00 -
[192]
Actually it's a rather wonderful life. The cause of freedom is entirely a personal journey. People come to the anarchist cause for many reasons - some have realized a capacity for evil in themselves and seek a positive direction for their vast powers and capability. Others have simply realized that as immortals we need different systems of interaction. We have the greenest recruits alongside the veterans of many wars and conflicts and in the Fraction all have an equal voice and right to speak their desires and dreams and make policy for the movement.
It is very uplifting seeing those who were once oppressed coming to understand their power and freedom and choosing to utilize their influence as they impact the wider struggles of the Star Cluster. We've taught thousands to resist and guard their own freedoms - we've taught many more to look to our example and wonder at what the Star Fraction can mean to them and their people.
All this talk of cult of ego and brainwashing is just projection from the bashing bishop. He is incapable of understanding a universe beyond the dominance/submission paradigms of the theological state and grasps for terminology he believes makes sense while representing nothing but nonsense phraseology and idiot mewling to those who have experienced freedom in their own right. Any Fractionist knows this.
The mistake this perverse prelate makes as ever is to believe that the key to attacking the anarchist movement is to attack the name Jade Constantine. And it's a mistake he has made continuously for past years and previous incarnations untold mind. I wonder if he believes if he tries long enough one day something will finally work? Its my pleasure as ever to disappoint him. I am a relentless foe to the wicked and the purile alike.
But since he is incapable of understanding the nature of anarchy he believes there is a "trick" a "mind-control cult" a "confidence scam" behind these free individuals choosing to align themselves against his own power and desire for hierarchy in the name of gods divine grandeur (or some such rot).
So it is easy for him to portray the sad ranks of failed anarchists shambling through this thread as some kind of criticism for an individual leader figure - thinking to make inroads and traction against a movement as baffling to him as the are orbits of moons to a spellbound gape-jawed slaver hound gazing up at the night sky no doubt!
To imagine this epic mock of a would-be religious conqueror as a "young anarchist" is the epitome of farce really.
But referring to the failures and wash-outs and traitors to the cause of freedom here as "prominent anarchists" is simply deluded.
Only an idiot could see the likes of Devilish Ledaux, Bacchanalian, Centra Spike and Ituralde of Pandemic Legion (and Goonswarm) as any kind of anarchist whatsoever. In joining such an organization of top-down restrictive hierarchy bound in memetic tyrant from its lowliest vapours to its murderous tendrils is proof-positive of the very opposite in heart and soul. One cannot be an anarchist in Goonswarm Archbishop - just as it appears one cannot have a mind in PIE.
Yet I do feel a little sorry for you here. You've seen the public meltdown of several weak personalities and have mistaken the ennui and pitiful froth as some kind of public (revolution?) against the revolution and taken hope from their withered imprecations and weak rhetoric. It's quite pitiful in a way as you desperately thrash about for arguments you are incapable of making.
Still, the attribute of mercy compels me to reveal that these voices are not dissidents or rebels or revered opposition or any other kind of honourable counterpoint to the radical freespace movement whatsoever.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 14:38:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 24/06/2009 14:45:54
No Archbishop, they are just wasted shells of men, mind-wrecked and tired, incapable of pursuing their dreams and reduced to shambling thoughtless in the path of tyrants, counting all their hopes of making individual name lost and turning inward to bitter understanding that their only glory will be reflected at best, and those reflections increasingly dim as they are assimilated by the swarm. As I've said, I might pity these creatures but they will have no kind words from me for I am not in the habit of lying.
We are immortals and we can strive for eternity if we have the will and energy to keep striving. A failed anarchist is nothing special. No more important than the hundreds of failed nationalists and Amarrian loyalists turned pirates or thieves or mindless road blockers in Providence. Perhaps these skeletal remnants of the men they once were are unique in their self-mockery? Perhaps. But I prefer to remember them as they were in life - not as they are in the voluntarily living death of servitude to 0.0 tyrants and vacuous memetic impulse.
So I Jade Constantine, the individual, the egotist, the revolutionary, the murderer, the saboteur, the firebrand speaker and nemesis to all your stand for remains. Doubtless as Lucifer to submissive divine-mewling. And I remain unbowed and unrepentant, laughing at your words, mocking your capability in space. Your sermons are weak broth to the intellectually-destitute! Your manipulations are cringe-worthy as you attempt to flatter fallen dogs in the hope that they will bark at the appropriate time in your own chorus!
You may well consider your cause to be so weak as to admit any crawling mudcrab into the ranks of your friends Archbishop. I however have my eyes set upon the stars above and one must strive to earn my respect. No weaklings and halfwits have a place at the table of free-captains, still perhaps a kindness that they have a place in PIE when the goons have no more use for them.
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.24 15:19:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Heartstone It is funny Archie. You talk as if nobody has ever left PIE for an organisation that is opposed to your own beliefs which is, as we both know, certainly not the case. Do you see them differently from how Jade sees those fallen from our path?
While individuals have left PIE I can never recall one returning later to level such a personal condemnation of one individual as has happend here with the former fractionists. This is what I think is the real Anarchist Tragedy. Not people leaving but leaving with such venom and anger toward one particular person.
Many have left PIE, others will leave, some will join other loyalist groups and some will abandon God and join the heatens. In all these occurances though I certainly can't recall an exchange like we've seen here between current and former fractionists. That "personal" tone of bitterness and resentment. It does tell a lot about how people leave your organization.
I guess the question I ask then Heartstone is are you acknowledging the belief of many (based on years of reports by former fractionists) that your group is basically a dictatorship focused on stroking to gigantic ego of one individual? After all leaving over philosophy is one thing... Leaving the way your former associates have repeatedly descibed over the years is quite another.
When so many former fractionists say the same thing over so many years it does make you wonder. As I said it is both Anarchist Tragedy and Fractionist Reality.
I suggest prayer and repentence. If you face your sins you will feel better.
Archbishop
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.24 15:43:00 -
[195]
Firstly I appreciate you taking the time to come up with a nickname for me. The Bashing Bishop is certainly an amusing one. I admit it is my desire to "bash" sin and deviance so I view your nickname as a sign I am succeeding. As for discussions about the fractionist leader I will simply let your reputation speak for itself. Given the years and years you've endured this life I understand the walls of denial you have built around yourself. It is a protection measure to call others weak while ignoring the reality everyone is shouting at you.
I believe God only wants His children to serve Him and find their place in the universe. That requires being willing to face your sin and repent. Until you do this you are doomed to stand behind your walls of text and denials of reality. Doomed to more years of your former anarchist friends turning on you as they have here. It truly is the Anarchist Tragedy.
I must depart this thread for now as I have some new sermons to prepare in the new series on Minmatar Tribal Culture. I happily encorage all to read the words of the former fractionists who have posted here and search back through the years to read the same things again and again. Ask yourself one question... "If something is repeated by many people over many years is it possible it is true?". My answer is the obvious "yes". After all there was a time when Baach and Devilish defended the fraction here as well as Heartstone has today. It does make you wonder.
I will say a prayer for all anarchists tonight that they find the truth of God and repent.
Archbishop
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 16:04:00 -
[196]
It seems that you have been lead to believe the wrong thing from these voices of the past Archie. The few who have spoken out against Jade Constantine are in the vast minority of pilots who have decided for whatever reason to leave our organisation. The majority of former members of The Star Fraction have not expressed the "venom and anger" you describe.
It is certainly true that no former members of PIE have been so publicly critical of a member of your organisation in recent memory whilst a number of former members of The Star Fraction have been. Let us examine this though. What sort of people do the two organisations appeal to? In our case the people we attract tend to be the outspoken, individualistic kind from the outset. These traits are encouraged by The Star Fraction and as a result when a member leaves it is certainly likely he or she will express themselves outspokenly. These are also the sort of people who will, on reflection, tend to have more personality clashes with each other as their beliefs are challenged by the free exchange of ideas and ideals that can lead to... shall we say... rather heated discussions. The danger of an organisation such as ours poses to itself lies in the few who are unable to accept the difference of opinion of the others members. Those than cannot do not flourish in an environment such as ours where everything is open for discussion and interpretation. If these people feel ignored, overlooked or otherwise hard done by they tend to make a fuss about it as we have well seen here. That they express themselves in such strident terms is, in many ways, gratifying to see for me at least as I still can see the spark of hope in them.
I cannot in all honesty say what sort of people PIE attracts in the same depth as what I can of my own organisation. I would assume however that the values and norms that you look for in a recruit would be along the lines of obedience and supplication to the will of the Empire. That the sort of person who is willing to join an organistation such as your is less outspoken on their departure is of little surprise in truth then as the personality type attracted to this is less verbose than that attracted to ours shall we say. Given the traits that are encouraged in the membership of your organisation I personally would have thought the members who joins forces to fight against the Empire is more of a rejection of ideals than one who speaks out against a single person in the organisation. Of course this is just a personal assumption as I could never understand the mindset of one who would join an organisation such as your own as it isn't who I am.
The cult of personality argument surrounding The Star Fraction is, of course, an old one. All I can say is from my personal experience from nearly two years in The Star Fraction I have never seen it. From a new member to a Director of this organisation I belong to it has never been the case that what Jade or anyone else says is valued above what anyone else says. Indeed on a number of occasions in the last few months alone I can think of several times when her advice has been dismissed and we have gone a different route to the one she proposed. As a result of these actions taken Jade never once complained about being ignored or sidetracked. Indeed she was, in a couple of cases, their strongest proponent once the choice was made. Frankly the cult of personality is a myth designed to attempt to cause internal division within the ranks of the Star Fraction which will never work as those within it see for themselves the truth of the situation.
On a final note I would just like to add that I am personally not an Anarchist. I never have been. My choice to join the Star Fraction was based on the ideals of Transhumanism and Freedom that we promote.
For me though the Anarchist Tragedy is that the is made of it's own basic function. Anarchist seem to rebel against everyone including other anarchists from time to time.
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.24 16:55:00 -
[197]
One of my slaves commented I might want to read your posting Heartstone. I am most interested in the fact you do not believe yourself an anarchist supporter. I am not totally familiar with "transhumanist" beliefs although I have seen the term used. I believe it was always used in a large wall of text thus it was overlooked.
Still I did enjoy taking a short break from writing my new sermon to read your comments. While I clearly don't agree with all of them I do especially appreciate your description of what kind of people join your group. Perhaps testing children at a young age for these "traits" would be a positive step toward rooting out the anarchist dysfunction.
Archbishop
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 17:53:00 -
[198]
Oh I wouldn't go as far as to say I'm not a supporter of Anarchists as, after all, I work alongside many of them and I will always support those who I work alongside despite any philosophical differences we may have. What I said was that I am not one myself which is to say I don't believe that Anarchism is the ideal for a society. I was bought up amongst the Great Caravans of the Thukker who roamed freely around Syndicate where my parents came from. Their communal meritocracy is, to my mind, a more beautiful construct but it is one that thrives in harsh circumstances and tends to brake as soon a degree of comfort is achieved as greed and personal ambition come into play. A shame really and it is my hope that the recent joining of the Thukker Tribe to the Minmatar Tribal Republic doesn't cause this sort of cascade of issues for them whom I still consider in some way my own people.
In regards to your idea of screening I hardly think it is something that is not already done in the Empire to a degree already. After all the label of Heretic or Unbeliever is one we hear often from the Empire in regards to those in it's own society it cannot bare. Additionally in childhood these traits are not as well developed as they are in later life where one would be more capable of avoiding making them obvious if the situation warranted it. Really the best way to root out the Anarchistic tendencies of your own people if to offer them more freedom without recrimination. Whilst it seemed during the time of Sansha the Empire was willing to allow it's people a degree of freedom in self determinsation as demonstrated by their forbearance of the Sansha dissidents that tolerance seems to have evaporated over time. Maybe as a direct result of this event? I am not sure.
In regards to your comments on Transhumanism that is a subject for a much longer and more detailed discussion than can be done here.
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.24 19:32:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Heartstone For me though the Anarchist Tragedy is that the is made of it's own basic function. Anarchist seem to rebel against everyone including other anarchists from time to time
That was the point of my tale mr. Hearstone. To rebel is one of the core concepts of the anarchist philosophy. That is why I called it a counter-philosophy. It needs something to rebel against.
Even if you give a group of anarchists a pristine world and don't interfere with them at all, they still end up fighting each other. That is the anarchist tragedy I tried to convey in my story. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 19:55:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Heartstone For me though the Anarchist Tragedy is that the is made of it's own basic function. Anarchist seem to rebel against everyone including other anarchists from time to time
That was the point of my tale mr. Hearstone. To rebel is one of the core concepts of the anarchist philosophy. That is why I called it a counter-philosophy. It needs something to rebel against.
Making terms up doesn't help though mr. Merdaneth. The Anarchist philosophy is what is known broadly as a Conflict Philosophy that is to say things are, things being in this case society, inevitably in a state conflict and not stable as other philosophies would have you believe. Anarchist Philosophy is of course just one example of Conflict Philosophy calling them "counter-philosophy" as you so cutely did is a base and thinly veiled attempt at anti-Anarchist propaganda.
Quote: Even if you give a group of anarchists a pristine world and don't interfere with them at all, they still end up fighting each other. That is the anarchist tragedy I tried to convey in my story.
As stated above the eternal conflict between one group in a society and another is something that is assumed to the norm in Anarchists Philosophy and therefore conflict between members of the perfect society is inevitable as a mechanism for change in that society. Conflict Philosophy in a way denies the very concept of a "perfect" society as to be perfect would require no change and the stagnation of the society that occurs as a result of it would deem it imperfect by itself as it would never succeed in pleasing all of it's people.
This issue in Anarchist Philosophy as I understand it is, of course, only relevant to a theoretical discussion as the Anarchist grounded in reality is dealing with something that is far from perfect and as a result the Real Life anarchist is more concerned with the reality of the situation eh finds himself in and less about the perceived theoretical implications of their eventual success.
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.24 20:39:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Heartstone The Anarchist philosophy is what is known broadly as a Conflict Philosophy that is to say things are, things being in this case society, inevitably in a state conflict and not stable as other philosophies would have you believe. Anarchist Philosophy is of course just one example of Conflict Philosophy.
I have no problem with people sketching anarchist philosophy as a conflict philosophy. I do have problems with people sketching it as an inherently peaceful philosophy. I do have problems with people sketching it as a philosophy preferring peaceful negotiation over violent coercion.
The Cosmopolite has continually denied the need for conflict. He claims that conflict is not necessary in this age. Not necessary because once we become capsuleers we suddenly have infinite space, infinite resources and infinite independence. With infinity in our hand, why fight?
I believe that claim is false. I believe capsuleers are in still in conflict, not because they are used to fighting (infected by an inferior meme-complex in SF-speak), but because they fight over finite resources and dependent positions.
I believe laws and restrictions are an efficient manner to overcome conflicts of interest between individuals, especially where it concerns dilemma's that rational actors cannot solve by themselves.
Amarr society has a lot of mechanisms to regulate conflict in such a way that it benefits all. It tries to suppress inefficient conflicts and encourage efficient ones. SF anarchists seems to want to abandon all forms of suppression of conflict.
The perfect society is indeed stagnant, for it has reached the perfection of God. One can strive for this, but it is unlikely that society will reach this point in the near future. Is such perfection not something to strive for? |
Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 21:05:00 -
[202]
You misunderstand the term "conflict" in this case Merdaneth, The conflict is between two or more groups in a society. The conflict does not have to be a bloody one. Conflict can be utterly peaceful negotiation as much as it can be planet shattering conflict. Really though I am not going to explain these simple parts of sociological philosophy to you Merdaneth you should know this sort of thing.
As for SF wanting to abandon all forms of suppression of conflict that is utterly ridiculous. As a strict NRDS organisation we restrict ourselves in our use of violence to the extent in every major fight we do take part in we are regularly attacked by people who, up to that point, were free from the chance of aggression from us. After all it is for this reason that some of the past members of Star Fraction left us. Those who felt the need to attack everyone they saw as if all were a threat to them in some sort of paranoid fantasy.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.24 22:31:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Archbishop
As for discussions about the fractionist leader I will simply let your reputation speak for itself.
It does of course. I have a reputation for steadfast commitment to a cause I support. I doubtless have a reputation as stern critic of broken idealism and failed dreams. By the same measure you have a reputation for meandering screeds of babbling sub-schoolroom sermonizing that impress only the fragile-minded. (that and avoiding all conflict from your cloaked bestower mind).
But we could fill pages explaining what our reputations are. Your words will always be lies. Your supporters will always be dogs. That is simply the way it is.
Quote: It is a protection measure to call others weak while ignoring the reality everyone is shouting at you.
The notion of "everyone" is an idiotic one. By calling on this chorus of chattering nithlings you simply weaken your grasp on the argument. I could as easily say that "everyone" despises your weakness and cowardly yellow-streak that has seen you hide from every war PIE has ever been involved in. But its meaningless - you cannot prove external opinion, I would not wish too. The opinions of the peanut gallery are generally worthless. Unlike you I am completely honest in stating that I only care about the opinions of a relatively small group of people who have earned my respect from their actions, wisdom and courage in times before. And none of those people have ever supported your condemations and sermons.
Quote: Until you do this you are doomed to stand behind your walls of text and denials of reality. Doomed to more years of your former anarchist friends turning on you as they have here.
I have no former anarchist friends. That is what you fail to understand. A failure is just that - a failure. I have no time for the weak of will and lacking in backbone. I spare no thought to the destitute of spirit and false in ideals. That perhaps is what drives these creatures to their empty-eyed condemnations and pitiful public mewling. I make no apology. The revolution is one of two loves in my life - there is no room in my heart for those who have betrayed the cause of freedom.
Quote: Ask yourself one question... "If something is repeated by many people over many years is it possible it is true?". My answer is the obvious "yes".
Obvious but incorrect. The weak will always slander the strong. The evil will always grow jealous of the just. Those with ideals will be hated by those without. This is the dark side of human nature.
Quote: After all there was a time when Baach and Devilish defended the fraction here as well as Heartstone has today. It does make you wonder.
Devilish has always been a weak man. He sought a harbour having failed as a pirate and we gave him a place of comfort. But he has never been a good speaker or even a particularly effective revolutionary. Bacchanalian was once a great pilot in the Fraction granted, but he grew too hungry for the thrill of combat and it drowned out the reason for fighting. In the end he became a creature of sensation alone. Murder was all that mattered, the revolution was nothing. This is a danger to the immortals of our cause. Some lose themselves in the near divinity of our powers. Bacchanalian is one of those. Anarchists are betrayed and destroyed by the lust for kill-rankings and meaningless slaughter. The Star Fraction is and always has been much more than that and the true heroes of the Fraction cause understand the secrets that men like Devilish and Bacchanalian lost or never knew.
But worship their power as you wish Archbishop. You need allies and faded captains fallen to kneeling before the 0.0 hierarchies suit you well as brazen idols to the godslave ethos. For my part I spit in their faces. If they were half the men they once aspired to be they would vow to make me regret this gesture. But they are less than half, close to nothing and nothing is what they will do.
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.25 00:55:00 -
[204]
Quote: Even if you give a group of anarchists a pristine world and don't interfere with them at all, they still end up fighting each other. That is the anarchist tragedy I tried to convey in my story.
I guess despite all my observations and revelations this is the simplest truth of all... that even a member of the fractionist ranks acknowledges it has some truth is all that really needs to be said.
In some ways anarchists are like perfectionists. A perfectionist will always be looking for something else better than what he has. But what happens when the perfectionist finds that perfect thing? They rejoice and acknowledge it as such. The anarchist on the other hand even in a pristine world of anarchy will never be satisfied. Be it their penchant for violence or the constant need for conflict the end result is always the same. The anarchist is never happy thus calling forth ongoing violence. It is like an addiction for these poor souls and even amongst themselves they will take a perfect situation and find some reason to fight about it.
I will say it again it must be a sad life. A life spent in search of perfection and improvement can be a wonderful thing... to find that perfection and walk right by it is a tragedy. To do so one's entire life is the anarchist tragedy.
Archbishop
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.25 01:14:00 -
[205]
Quote: I have no former anarchist friends. That is what you fail to understand. A failure is just that - a failure. I have no time for the weak of will and lacking in backbone. I spare no thought to the destitute of spirit and false in ideals. That perhaps is what drives these creatures to their empty-eyed condemnations and pitiful public mewling. I make no apology. The revolution is one of two loves in my life - there is no room in my heart for those who have betrayed the cause of freedom.
Perhaps this tells the entire story. Heartstone very honestly explained even among the anarchist ranks people can take different directions. He viewed those people as individuals set on a different path... but he still obviously respected their choices. He didn't need to call them names in an attempt to bring them down to elevate some insecurity complex.
Likewise I don't recall Cosmopolite ever referring to former anarchists in this manner. He seems to be a calm reasoned individual even if he's a disgrace to his race associating with anarchists. He seems very respectful of the concepts of "free-choice" and while often not agreeing with him I have not seen such name-calling from him either.
You on the other hand are quick to call people "failures" and "pitiful". You apparently don't respect the free choices your former anarchist associates have made. From reading several years of comments like the ones in the last few pages this seems to be a common thread in the tapestry of your life. Anyone who disagrees with you is a "failure", a "dog", a "worm" or an "insect". Anyone who leaves your ranks is a "failure".
Perhaps Cosmopolite or Heartstone would be a more appropriate CEO for your corporation? They certainly are better versed in the language of diplomacy and humanity.
Given the tone of your speech about these former members it isn't a stretch to assume you treat even current corpmates in such a manner if they disagree with you. While Heartstone indicated several times your ideas were passed on I have to believe given the years of posts like these in this thread and by your angry defensive response you are not the cuddly fun-loving freedom-worshiping anarchist you claim to be. But that is OK... After all your reputation speaks for itself.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.25 01:53:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Archbishop
Quote: Even if you give a group of anarchists a pristine world and don't interfere with them at all, they still end up fighting each other. That is the anarchist tragedy I tried to convey in my story.
I guess despite all my observations and revelations this is the simplest truth of all... that even a member of the fractionist ranks acknowledges it has some truth is all that really needs to be said.
You are quoting Merdenath there. You are not quoting a Free Captain and its deceitful for you to claim you are. Merdenath's story was a fiction and clusmy caricature of the way he wishes to describe anarchist principles. It is not what happened. The truth is in the op of this thread. That is what you need to address if your visit here is to have even the pretense of open debate.
Quote: The anarchist on the other hand even in a pristine world of anarchy will never be satisfied.
That is merdaneth's fiction. That is not the tale of this thread.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.25 02:05:00 -
[207]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 25/06/2009 02:08:19
Originally by: Archbishop Given the tone of your speech about these former members and the fact this isn't the first time your former "friends" have spoken like this about you it isn't a stretch to assume you treat even current corpmates in such a manner if they disagree with you.
It is quite a "stretch" given your complete failure to read the words of current comrades and fellow revolutaries in this thread. I believe we have been united in our condemnation of the lunacy expressed by some gnashing non-entities you laud as prophets. And I'll thank you to avoid putting quotes round the word "friends" as if that was my term. It is not. I have told you I consider none of these people you refer to as friends in any way shape or form.
I'm not sure why you are belabouring this point though. I have been more than blunt. Perhaps it is the constant Amarrian obsessive compulsion at having the last word winning over your earlier promise to quit the thread and move onto other matters? Who knows. But be assured I will not shift my stated position one atom on the matter of these regressive dogs and fallen worshippers of the great god NBSI and all the mewling stink that entails.
I will move mountains and shatter fleets to defend and protect my comrades-at-arms and fellow revolutionaries. They know this. I know they will sacrifice as much in return. My love and passion is given freely to those idealists with the strength to fight for their ideals and embrace freedom's burning eyes and siren song and strike at tyranny in all things.
I will give nothing to nithing dogs save a swift kick in their posterior when the volume of their yapping proves a distraction to the debate at hand.
If you wish to remain in this thread and discussion you are welcome to of course - but unless you address the subject of the op I'll restrict myself merely to mocking your intellectual capabilities hereafter, since without the smallest attempt to address the points raised here you are simply playing the stereotypical blind prelate role in a beggers game of mock the monk.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.25 07:57:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Heartstone You misunderstand the term "conflict" in this case Merdaneth, The conflict is between two or more groups in a society. The conflict does not have to be a bloody one. Conflict can be utterly peaceful negotiation as much as it can be planet shattering conflict.
Mr. Hearstone, *I* am perfectly aware of this. However, your CEO isn't. Just one post below your own she talks about his eminence the Archbishop:
Originally by: Jade Constantine By the same measure you have a reputation for meandering screeds of babbling sub-schoolroom sermonizing that impress only the fragile-minded. (that and avoiding all conflict from your cloaked bestower mind).
It seems clear that ms. Constantine uses a different definition of conflict. Also, going by the words of the Cosmopolite, who claims that Star Fraction prefers 'convincing through diplomacy' above 'coercion through violence', his eminence should really be a lighting example for the anarchist. For Archbishop tries to convince others through non-violent means, broadcasting from an unarmed Bestower while your CEO uses every opportunity to grab her guns.
Ms. Constantine's general demeanor seems to express that she thinks those that try to solve conflict through negotiation are nothing more than insects, that flying a cloaked Bestower is shameful and that they should 'wardec or stfu'.
In practice, the term "conflict" as used by the Star Fraction seems clear enough. it means wanton destruction against designated (not random) targets. Star Fraction thrives on violent conflict. Star Fraction's continued existence is dependent on violent conflict. You know this as well as I do mr. Hearstone, I just want you to admit it. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.25 08:01:00 -
[209]
Edited by: Merdaneth on 25/06/2009 08:03:14
Originally by: Jade Constantine I have no former anarchist friends. That is what you fail to understand. A failure is just that - a failure. I have no time for the weak of will and lacking in backbone. I spare no thought to the destitute of spirit and false in ideals. That perhaps is what drives these creatures to their empty-eyed condemnations and pitiful public mewling. I make no apology. The revolution is one of two loves in my life - there is no room in my heart for those who have betrayed the cause of freedom.
I seem to remember you and the Cosmopolite saying that everyone was always free to return to the SF cause? Has that changed? Or is this merely another example of SF hypocrisy.
Or perhaps, SF has a policy of taking in failures, people lacking backbones, those destitute in spirit and of course traitors?
Originally by: Jade Constantine The weak will always slander the strong.
You either have a peculiar sense of humor, or are completely blind to miss the irony in this statement of yours. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.25 09:33:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Jade Constantine I have no former anarchist friends. That is what you fail to understand. A failure is just that - a failure. I have no time for the weak of will and lacking in backbone. I spare no thought to the destitute of spirit and false in ideals. That perhaps is what drives these creatures to their empty-eyed condemnations and pitiful public mewling. I make no apology. The revolution is one of two loves in my life - there is no room in my heart for those who have betrayed the cause of freedom.
I seem to remember you and the Cosmopolite saying that everyone was always free to return to the SF cause? Has that changed? Or is this merely another example of SF hypocrisy.
No, it is merely another example of your inability, probably wilful, to grasp the point that is being made.
The Cosmopolite
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.25 13:16:00 -
[211]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 25/06/2009 13:17:11
Originally by: Merdaneth I seem to remember you and the Cosmopolite saying that everyone was always free to return to the SF cause? Has that changed? Or is this merely another example of SF hypocrisy. Or perhaps, SF has a policy of taking in failures, people lacking backbones, those destitute in spirit and of course traitors?
Your memory is as flawed as your debating skill. Still, much easier to simply make things up as they are needed than address the facts right? If anybody thinks that the Star Fraction would ever be an open door to false-friends, moral-cowards, snivelling nere-do-wells and general lowgrade tyrant-trash then they have another thing coming.
There are those pilots who leave the revolutionary movement who would be welcomed back, but that is a very long way from offering a blanket reinvite for every failed trialist, vacilating imperialist, lickspittal authority-worshiper and brain-fried burnout who has quit our cause over six years of consistant struggle against the vilest foes imaginable.
People disappoint us sometimes. That is all that needs to be said. Other people are great surprises and constant friends and allies and true companions. It is right to marginalize the former and praise the latter. This is life, this is our free right and pleasure to differentiate between failure and success.
Originally by: Jade Constantine The weak will always slander the strong.
Originally by: Merdaneth You either have a peculiar sense of humor, or are completely blind to miss the irony in this statement of yours.
I hope you are not claiming to be "strong" in some fashion? Or that the cringing empire you represent is anything other than a weak crutch for the spiritually-wounded to carry their body weight while hiding from the reality of personal responsibility in an age of fantastic opportunity and liberating technological change?
Seriously. The Amarrian empire is a refuge for the weakest of the weak. Those men and women who lack the strength to take responsibility for their own actions and hide instead behind the laughable illusionary construct of a "wise patriach" who sees all and rewards you in your slavery.
You are a dog in a nation of dogs Merdaneth. You are not fit to even speak the word "strength" let alone debate the words of individuals commited to the cause of personal freedom through direct action and radical political change.
Don't make me laugh!
24th Crusade Wardec SF! |
Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.25 14:10:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Heartstone You misunderstand the term "conflict" in this case Merdaneth, The conflict is between two or more groups in a society. The conflict does not have to be a bloody one. Conflict can be utterly peaceful negotiation as much as it can be planet shattering conflict.
Mr. Hearstone, *I* am perfectly aware of this. However, your CEO isn't. Just one post below your own she talks about his eminence the Archbishop:
Originally by: Jade Constantine By the same measure you have a reputation for meandering screeds of babbling sub-schoolroom sermonizing that impress only the fragile-minded. (that and avoiding all conflict from your cloaked bestower mind).
It seems clear that ms. Constantine uses a different definition of conflict.
Certainly Jade is using the term in the common usage. In our discussion we were using the term in the Sociological and Philosophical usage. Two different things.
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Aphoxakhan
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.25 16:38:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Jade Constantine There are those pilots who leave the revolutionary movement who would be welcomed back, but that is a very long way from offering a blanket reinvite for every failed trialist, vacilating imperialist, lickspittal authority-worshiper and brain-fried burnout who has quit our cause over six years of consistant struggle against the vilest foes imaginable.
People disappoint us sometimes. That is all that needs to be said. Other people are great surprises and constant friends and allies and true companions. It is right to marginalize the former and praise the latter. This is life, this is our free right and pleasure to differentiate between failure and success.
One of Us melted away from The Lovely Anarchists, I ran from a foe to be greeted by slavers. I stole away two of The Lovely Anarchists and turned them into Unhappy Imperialists, we regret the decisions of haste and immaturity.
I became We and We returned, crawling on our knees to beg for mercy and forgiveness. Jade was not merciful, Jade did not forgive, Jade deleted the errors and accepted Us as new; Not as the corrupt former ally turned slaver.
Before I was in Star Fraction to play along, now We are in Star Fraction to remain until death or deviance.
Not all are welcome to join The Lovely Anarchists, but all are welcome to Anarchy. |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.27 08:14:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
You are a dog in a nation of dogs Merdaneth.
How are you feeling today Ms. Constantine?
Originally by: Jade Constantine The weak will always slander the strong.
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.27 08:21:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Heartstone
Certainly Jade is using the term in the common usage. In our discussion we were using the term in the Sociological and Philosophical usage. Two different things.
In that case, my apologies. To my perception context often changes rapidly among SF members, and definitions and interpretations appear 'flexible'. Hence my previous accusations of hypocrisy. Such accusations might be based on mere misunderstandings, but you must consider that to those not well-versed in the many subtleties of SF dogma this is not uncommon.
As my post above shows, I do not understand Ms. Constantine's statement of slander being a sign of weakness, while she employs slander a lot herself. Is she admitting weakness? Does she make statements in isolation, unaware of their connection? Does each of her statements posses a complete separate context, and can one therefore never relate on statement from Ms. Constantine to another of hers. This is all highly confusing. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.27 12:57:00 -
[216]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 27/06/2009 13:03:23
Originally by: Merdaneth As my post above shows, I do not understand Ms. Constantine's statement of slander being a sign of weakness, while she employs slander a lot herself. Is she admitting weakness?
You do not understand the statement because you are incapable of seeing yourself as the dog that others view you. You also falsely accuse me of slander since you are incapable of admitting the truth of your existence. When I say you are a dog Merdaneth I mean it. You are a dog. Hence the statement is not a slander it is simply a fact. Just as it is another fact that you do come from a nation of dogs. You are the son of a dog in a corporation of dogs - you aspire for nothing beyond canine dreams of a mystic pat on the head from your imaginary master. This is also truth.
If you want to challenge this statement perhaps you should prove to us that you are not a dog? If you feel strongly that you are more than a lapdog for a make-believe spirit in the sky then it shouldn't be difficult for you to prove your individuality. I'll await with amusement your attempt.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Nathaniel Derooy
Lyonesse.
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Posted - 2009.06.27 15:46:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 27/06/2009 13:03:23
You do not understand the statement because you are incapable of seeing yourself as the dog that others view you. You also falsely accuse me of slander since you are incapable of admitting the truth of your existence. When I say you are a dog Merdaneth I mean it. You are a dog. Hence the statement is not a slander it is simply a fact. Just as it is another fact that you do come from a nation of dogs. You are the son of a dog in a corporation of dogs - you aspire for nothing beyond canine dreams of a mystic pat on the head from your imaginary master. This is also truth.
If you want to challenge this statement perhaps you should prove to us that you are not a dog? If you feel strongly that you are more than a lapdog for a make-believe spirit in the sky then it shouldn't be difficult for you to prove your individuality. I'll await with amusement your attempt.
Barking Dogs don't bite, be a good girl and continue to bark please...yeah.. good girl...
*Nathaniel Derooy grins* |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.27 16:02:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Nathaniel Derooy *Nathaniel Derooy grins*
You do a lot of grinning. Not much fighting. But lots of grinning. Still, takes all sorts - but thanks for the bump while we are waiting for Merdaneth to prove he's not a dog.
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Nathaniel Derooy
Lyonesse.
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Posted - 2009.06.28 14:49:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Nathaniel Derooy *Nathaniel Derooy grins*
You do a lot of grinning. Not much fighting. But lots of grinning. Still, takes all sorts - but thanks for the bump while we are waiting for Merdaneth to prove he's not a dog.
Well not a big surprise for me to be grinning, while watching the most hilarious involuntary attempt at comedy to hit galnet over the past two years.
Are you sure I am not fighting?
*Nathaniel Derooy smiles extensivly*
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Dex Nederland
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2009.06.28 15:06:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Jade Constantine while we are waiting for Merdaneth to prove he's not a dog.
You will be waiting a while I suspect; I don't think he has any intention of proving to you he is not a "dog". I don't think he actually cares what you think of him or his politics but rather wants to ensure that the other side of the argument is heard. You will always consider him a "dog".
Some of us (those you would call dogs) may take it as a compliment. |
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.28 15:34:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Nathaniel Derooy
Are you sure I am not fighting?
Based on publicly accessible databases I think the answer to that is self evidently yes we're sure thank you.
Jade you do get the funniest Galnet stalkers. Can we keep this one?
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Nathaniel Derooy
Lyonesse.
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Posted - 2009.06.29 14:33:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Heartstone
Originally by: Nathaniel Derooy
Are you sure I am not fighting?
Based on publicly accessible databases I think the answer to that is self evidently yes we're sure thank you.
Jade you do get the funniest Galnet stalkers. Can we keep this one?
A very ignorant way of approach, if I may say so.
Please do revisit your next military academy for a refreshment in modern warfare and its principles.
And for the record, I am not stalking, I just simply oppose a selfdeclared leader of THE anarchist movement.
You are free now to go to your basket, thank you.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.29 17:11:00 -
[223]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 29/06/2009 17:11:08
Originally by: Nathaniel Derooy A very ignorant way of approach, if I may say so. Please do revisit your next military academy for a refreshment in modern warfare and its principles.
So you are saying that you are too much a coward to post with the identity that you use for combat then? That in and of itself should indicate the quality of personality behind your front identity really. Hence I feel quite justified in naming you a puling worm without the backbone to stand up for your beliefs and opinions in open space.
Originally by: Nathaniel Derooy And for the record, I am not stalking, I just simply oppose a selfdeclared leader of THE anarchist movement.
Not sure what the worm means with this assessment. Not sure if its even worth addressing. But hey-ho, gives an opportunity to clarify for the non-worm audience out there.
I've never claimed to be the leader of anything - let alone the anarchist movements in new eden. I am the CEO of Jericho Fraction corporation and the Executor of Star Fraction alliance, which means I maintain an administrative role in the technicalities of these political entities - but ultimately I am a Free Captain amongst Free Captains. My voice has a vote. My word is made good with actions in space.
The worm must not confuse my condemnation of worms and regressive NBSI pigdogs with any kind of "official" sanction. I say what I believe to be right and I will keep on saying it as a Free individual in a free association of armed and politically-radical free captains.
If my comrades wish to stand with my words they may. If they wish to have their own say they are welcome to do that to. Where official policy of the Star Fraction is involved it'll be accompanied by formal declarations and action in space and you will know that when you see the standings-adjustments and wardecs rolling in.
If you see me as a "leader" or "tyrant" it simple projects the worm's-eye view you have restricted yourself to viewing the universe behind.
Take offense with my words and you are within your right to challenge them in your own name, in space, with rhetoric or violence at your choice. You might even win some respect by doing so.
But keep sniping toothlessly behind the worm-identity you have chosen to employ to cloak your master from rebuke or action in space and you will win nothing beyond chiding condemnation and continued humiliation on this and other threads.
I enjoy mocking cowards who are too weak to stand up in their own name. For an immortal to be so tremulous as to avoid the glare of debate's attention in such slithering methodology is disgusting to me and I will keep stepping on your worm-body everytime I see it manifest simply because it gives me pleasure to obliterate the gutless in the sphere of public discussion.
By all means "laugh" again. But know your master serves my purpose by keeping the important lesson of this thread well-bumped and clear in the public view. I consider the spotlight important - I believe the revolution needs the oxygen of wide debate and notice to burn as brightly as it can.
You worm, are just a little kindling for the fire. But continue by all means. It amuses me to use ideological foes for advantage while thrashing their ego to within an inch of psychological meltdown.
Until your next "laughter" ...
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Nathaniel Derooy
Lyonesse.
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Posted - 2009.06.30 09:41:00 -
[224]
I suggest you should do your research more thoroughly, Mrs Constatine.
If you really think I am hiding myself, then you simply missunderstand the Past.
And finally you made it clear to the public that you are simply a CEO gone nutcrackers, Thank you, that is all I wanted.
PS: a CEO needs more manners!
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.30 12:11:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Nathaniel Derooy I suggest you should do your research more thoroughly, Mrs Constatine. If you really think I am hiding myself, then you simply missunderstand the Past.
Hardly, you admitted you were hiding your identity. Nine times out of ten that means you are a coward incapable of standing in the light of day. Hence you sulk in the shadows like a worm.
Quote: And finally you made it clear to the public that you are simply a CEO gone nutcrackers, Thank you, that is all I wanted.
I think you'll find you've made nothing clear beyond my utter distain for cowardly skulking creatures without the backbone or pride to stand up and be known for their name and actions.
Quote: PS: a CEO needs more manners!
Only a fool treats a worm with respect.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Nathaniel Derooy
Lyonesse.
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Posted - 2009.06.30 12:30:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Nathaniel Derooy I suggest you should do your research more thoroughly, Mrs Constatine. If you really think I am hiding myself, then you simply missunderstand the Past.
Hardly, you admitted you were hiding your identity. Nine times out of ten that means you are a coward incapable of standing in the light of day. Hence you sulk in the shadows like a worm.
Quote: And finally you made it clear to the public that you are simply a CEO gone nutcrackers, Thank you, that is all I wanted.
I think you'll find you've made nothing clear beyond my utter distain for cowardly skulking creatures without the backbone or pride to stand up and be known for their name and actions.
Quote: PS: a CEO needs more manners!
Only a fool treats a worm with respect.
1. Where did I state that I hide my Identity? A simple Search would save you alot embarrasement
2. Read then write, my dear. I stated you made it clear not that I did that.
3. Yet the worm eats you, when you enter your grave.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.30 12:36:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Nathaniel Derooy 1. Where did I state that I hide my Identity? A simple Search would save you alot embarrasement 2. Read then write, my dear. I stated you made it clear not that I did that.
Take your own advise and read up. Still, can't expect such a skinless creature to have all its facts in order. And try to pace yourself a little better for the next response, the last one didn't really make much sense.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Nathaniel Derooy
Lyonesse.
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Posted - 2009.06.30 13:01:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Nathaniel Derooy 1. Where did I state that I hide my Identity? A simple Search would save you alot embarrasement 2. Read then write, my dear. I stated you made it clear not that I did that.
Take your own advise and read up. Still, can't expect such a skinless creature to have all its facts in order. And try to pace yourself a little better for the next response, the last one didn't really make much sense.
*Nathaniel Derooy sighs*
Oh, I am pretty much up to date, Mrs Constantine.
I just find it sad to see the clear decline in intelligence in your persona in recent years, additional to your disturbing sandbox bully attitude.
And in order to understand the sense, you actually need to have somesort of cerebral functionality
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ChipMo
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.30 15:51:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Nathaniel Derooy
...blah blah blah...
You talk a lot, but say nothing.
.... free bumps I suppose
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Lucian Alucard
Caldari Black Vice Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.02 10:20:00 -
[230]
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.03 14:50:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Lucian Alucard The more things change the more they stay the same.
As it ever was. Often the meek and the cowardly find it impossible to do more than bark at their betters on the IGS. Shame in many ways, I would certainly enjoy shattering the hulls of these regressive fools - but one doesn't always get what one desires.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Lucian Alucard
Caldari Black Vice Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.10 09:38:00 -
[232]
Like I used to say "Killing the spiders to save the flies works in theory until one day you realize your a spider". Just remember there's a thin line between defending your beliefs and sinking to their level.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.10 18:12:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Lucian Alucard Like I used to say "Killing the spiders to save the flies works in theory until one day you realize your a spider". Just remember there's a thin line between defending your beliefs and sinking to their level.
Spiders and flies are one in the same. We must rise to become more than insects is the truth of it.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.07.10 20:11:00 -
[234]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 10/07/2009 20:16:54 Edited by: Karlemgne on 10/07/2009 20:12:41
Originally by: Jade Constantine story
Unfortunately anarcho capitalism is the stupidest political philosophy ever devised. You want to replace the regulated capitalist order, which is responsible for your oppression, with an unregulated one thereby replacing your current master--corporate capitalism and its bought and paid for government--with just corporate capitalism.
Brilliant.
I can't wait until Concord no longer serves the megacorporations of New Eden by proxy and we get Concord that shamelessly announces they represent only the corporation that pays the most isk.
And lest you thought that I forgot I still remember how Jade Constantine advocated for the continuance of patriarchy and the oppression of women in New Eden.
May the true revolutionaries of New Eden see through your smoke and mirrors. My sig don't fracking work. |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.10 21:57:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Spiders and flies are one in the same. We must rise to become more than insects is the truth of it.
I find it tragic and even disturbing that the debate here has shifted to tales of dogs, worms, flies and spiders.
You asked to return to the topic at hand previously ms. Constantine, but debating the merits of defining others as some species of animal is not something I am willing to do. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.11 00:09:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Merdaneth You asked to return to the topic at hand previously ms. Constantin ...
Then perhaps you should.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Tatsue Nuko
Freecaptains' Union
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Posted - 2009.07.12 14:22:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Karlemgne Unfortunately anarcho capitalism is the stupidest political philosophy ever devised. You want to replace the regulated capitalist order, which is responsible for your oppression, with an unregulated one thereby replacing your current master--corporate capitalism and its bought and paid for government--with just corporate capitalism.
Seriously now sir. You fail to take into account the nature of what has happened to humanity through the development and evolution of capsuleer technology and other related matters. Indeed, you have even failed to realize the most basic concepts in the matter.
First of all, corporate capitalism can only excert force if it is capable of causing actual punishment on the would-be subjects. It is not. Against those still jailed to a baseline existence your argument might have been capable of holding some validity, but there is no corporation, nor state, nor empire, nor alliance that can do anything beyond inconvenience me.
Extrapolate this to a large population and the whole shambling edifice of your construction falls apart.
Instead, what you call corporate capitalism will become exactly what it was until the collectivist notion of regulation took effect - it will be capable individuals dealing with each other as peers, and forced to act thus since even the drastic threat of assassination would be reduced to a mere material damage that would be quick to recoup.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.13 23:57:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Karlemgne
And lest you thought that I forgot I still remember how Jade Constantine advocated for the continuance of patriarchy and the oppression of women in New Eden.
I think you are going to need to cite some evidence of that one ...
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Caldari Infection Vector
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Posted - 2009.07.15 00:09:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Tatsue Nuko Seriously now sir. You fail to take into account the nature of what has happened to humanity through the development and evolution of capsuleer technology and other related matters. Indeed, you have even failed to realize the most basic concepts in the matter.
I would say that you take into account all of these things and focus on that which effects you individually, as does the object of your argument.
Quote: First of all, corporate capitalism can only excert force if it is capable of causing actual punishment on the would-be subjects. It is not. Against those still jailed to a baseline existence your argument might have been capable of holding some validity, but there is no corporation, nor state, nor empire, nor alliance that can do anything beyond inconvenience me.
The problem is that Capsuleers are a very small percentage of the population. We are not the end-all and be-all of existance. For every one of us there are perhaps billions "still jailed to a baseline existence".
Cloning technology is expensive. People live their lives, people die, people learn and unlearn. More importantly, people abuse and misuse the technology you and your fellows see as salvation. GalNet for instance. Even here the amount of actual debate and learning taking place is minimal.
Quote: Extrapolate this to a large population and the whole shambling edifice of your construction falls apart.
The problem is that it cannot be applied to a large population.
Quote: Instead, what you call corporate capitalism will become exactly what it was until the collectivist notion of regulation took effect - it will be capable individuals dealing with each other as peers, and forced to act thus since even the drastic threat of assassination would be reduced to a mere material damage that would be quick to recoup.
The problem is that your viewpoint is skewed towards the viewpoint that we, as a whole, seek a balance with those around us. If this were true, then "corporate capitalism" by it's very nature would achieve homeostasis. If what you suggest were to be the truth, then corporate capitalism would be something that you would not need to fight against.
The crux of the matter is this. The propagation of technology and information simply gives those with power - any kind of power - more venue for control if used properly. Yes, it also gives those who oppose it a venue to voice grievance, but this can also be seen as more of a "release valve" of the pressures necessary to create a critical mass that would allow for the toppling of said system.
I could go into the sociological and psychological reasoning behind this, perhaps even the neurobiology of the matter. In the end, though, I realize that your view is needed in the grand scheme of things. As ineffectual as it is, it is a beautiful starting point.
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Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Cruoris Seraphim Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.07.18 03:47:00 -
[240]
Edited by: Mebrithiel Ju''wien on 18/07/2009 03:55:47
Originally by: Jade Constantine You have been misled by a liar and a fraud and have slipped on your own blood and stabbed yourself in the foot.
I know blood pretty well.
I'm pretty sure he'd have to stab himself to produce the blood that he then, would have slipped on to stab himself in the foot.
You freespacers are cute, but dirty gallente hippies. Fly safe till you come before my guns.
Oh and yes, yes I have read all of Jade's posts and those arrayed against her. Crazy she may be, but I love her idealism and prose, even if it's misguided.
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Anneka Tong
B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
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Posted - 2009.07.18 08:43:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Spiders and flies are one in the same. We must rise to become more than insects is the truth of it.
Flies are insects. Spiders are arachnids. Different classes, though same phylum, i.e. Arthropods.
Not the same.
I like genetic engineering Past projects: The Radioactive Sheep Current project: Cybercow |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.22 13:33:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara Cloning technology is expensive. People live their lives, people die, people learn and unlearn. More importantly, people abuse and misuse the technology you and your fellows see as salvation. GalNet for instance. Even here the amount of actual debate and learning taking place is minimal.
Cloning technology is expensive because the powers-that-be want it to be expensive. Break their monopoly (as we have in the Star Fraction) and you'll find it can be given as a gift and friendly service to comrades-at-arms and fellow revolutionaries. There are no baseline mortals in our strike teams Nikilaiki Ruutarhara. Our special forces risk no more than a few hours of memory when they attack the infrastructure of the enemy. Whereas the anarchist tragedy of this thread is indicated in the near total loss of cultural memory amongst the Paradise colonists - I assure you there are now immortal descendants of this culture who will not be so easily expunged.
Quote: The problem is that it cannot be applied to a large population.
This is a nonsense. Where education and technical prowess is available there is no reason that anarchist principles cannot be usefully employed throughout a sizeable population.
Quote: The crux of the matter is this. The propagation of technology and information simply gives those with power - any kind of power - more venue for control if used properly. Yes, it also gives those who oppose it a venue to voice grievance, but this can also be seen as more of a "release valve" of the pressures necessary to create a critical mass that would allow for the toppling of said system. I could go into the sociological and psychological reasoning behind this, perhaps even the neurobiology of the matter. In the end, though, I realize that your view is needed in the grand scheme of things. As ineffectual as it is, it is a beautiful starting point.
Where Tatsue is deeply wrong is in her belief that she is her own revolution and solipsist NBSI self-delusion is anything other than a bitter trap. Where you are wrong is in viewing technology and information as neccessary elements of state control - we are on the verge of a technological singularity in new eden at the conflux of replication/cloning/transport science that will render the baseline notion of "the state" precisely irrelevent to the future of mankind. Our nature of humanity will change too, but we will be freed from regressive political dogma and the detritus of nation-state imperialism even as we reach for the stars with our new immortality.
I am an individual with the power and technological influence you speak of. I choose to give freely to the baseline populace of this star cluster because I want a race of peers and fellow travellers not serfs or slaves to be my companions through eternity. I consider this not regressive charity but neccessary education as an adult must provide to children if those children are to renew the culture.
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Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Caldari Infection Vector
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Posted - 2009.07.23 13:31:00 -
[243]
My dear Jade Constantin. Finally I stir you from your recursion. Let us see if we can get a new cycle started, shall we?
We have two divergent views. The differences come into play in our understanding of a very basic concept; emergent behavior. I agree that your theory holds validity, but only if certain criteria are met. Your "Anarchist Tragedy" fulfills some criteria, but it seems the lesson is perhaps lost on you.
Quote: One day I'll kill a man with it and perhaps one more spirit will rest in Paradise.
The phrasing of that is very telling. Strip away the story, strip away the name, strip away the spirituality, the doubt...
"One day I'll kill a man with it."
This is the true tragedy. You've kept the gun, you keep it, and for a very personal reason. It is not efficient. It is not for protection, there are other tools that would suffice.
You speak of education, how you are a "person of influence", you speak of technology... yet deep down you are the vengeful beast, the caged hound. You have the tools about you to make wondrous progress, you have the know how to employ them, but you are still "baseline" in every other respect.
So, stripping away all that keeps your beast in check, the social norms and acceptable behavior, what are we?
Emergent behavior, my dear. Understand your reactions and learn to control them. Demonstrate this. Show that you are capable of self improvement. Then perhaps we can discuss how you see your actions, and those of your "anarchists", will assist in bringing about a singularity.
Quote:
Our nature of humanity will change too, but we will be freed from regressive political dogma and the detritus of nation-state imperialism even as we reach for the stars with our new immortality.
Recursion, my dear. Live, learn and adapt. These are old ideas; show us something new. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.23 15:06:00 -
[244]
You consider human passions a failing. I do not.
And you must not mistake the language when I speak of transcending the baseline. I am speaking literally, my words practical and exact. Cloning and mind-state transference are tools for avoiding death. Just as antibiotics, microsurgery and even primitive anaesthesia in their time were such tools. There is nothing innately spiritual in the transformation from mortal to immortal. We are not holy creatures to be shriven of our sins and reborn into a universe without hate or fear or revenge. And truthfully, much of the human condition is a paradox of opposites, without such dark emotions to cast the shadow how can we see the light?
Would I be capable of the extremes of love and yearning my deathless heart knows if I was not able to experience despair and feel the urgings of vengeance and retribution? I believe it is a dangerous and self destructive course when the personality unravels and this very IGS has seen many examples of wasted-wind-blown once-individuals proclaiming their transcendence beyond human thoughts and simply becoming machine-manufactured memes of clichT and ultimate predictability. This very thread has several examples in the early pages.
So no Nikilaiki Ruutarhara, I am not ashamed of the oath of vengeance I swore to a dead man. We are all immortals in human form. We are gods with the minds of men, we are part of this universe not above it and it is our destiny only to touch the future and pass what gifts we may to our culture. We are not perfect and pure and neither are our dreams. We are human, we make mistakes we act from passion and pride and all the sins of the flesh. We laugh, we cry, we drink too much and toast the infinite in celebrations and hurl our glasses to the floor. In this we are not so different to our brethren on the planets bellow.
The Star Fraction movement is not the stainless steel conformity of the mind-purged Sansha drone hives. Nor is it the mortal transcendence of self-denying spiritual cults preached by Aria Jenneth and her followers. We are not futurists in any classical sense, we don't have a grand design or programmed solution to humanity's ills. We don't have all the answers, we don't know where the road will lead.
When we talk of uplifting the baseline we mean providing access to technology that renders state control meaningless. It means providing medicine to treat the plague of mortality. It means teaching our brothers and sisters to look outward to the endless tapestry of stars and encompass ambitions in generations not heartbeats.
When we talk of liberation we mean deliverance from all constraints of physicality: circumstance and time, restriction and scope. Our project is not grand and unified it is scattered, uneven, sporadic and messy. It's the scattershot wildfire of illicit nanofactories airdropped from high atmosphere burns. its pirate code for biotech on the state holowebs. Its political theory classes spliced into transcortical control implants for internment camps. The Fraction ethos is the space movement; it's the jury-rigged transport ship heading out for the frontier with hydroponics, black cloning tech and sensor probes, one-hundred families determined to strike out on their own and do what they will.
We create chaos as much as we create freedom but even this inspires the individual as it weakens the hierarchy. We make the attempt and even as our human hands often miss the mark our immortality ensures we will keep trying until we succeed - after all, we have eternity.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.23 15:07:00 -
[245]
You speak in closing from the suggestion that we anarchists will create the singularity. I do not see it this way. The singularity is coming be it next year or in a hundred. Its influence is there to be harnessed and utilised. Rather I view it as cosmic winds to fill the sails of freedom and carry those with the courage to embark to new places and fresh realities far out in the universe. Along the way the Star Fraction will shoot up the border guards and sabotage the state machinery denying escape to a captive population. We will win wars and lose them, but ultimately as I said: Time is on our side.
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Invelious
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.07.23 16:12:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
You speak in closing from the suggestion that we anarchists will create the singularity. I do not see it this way. The singularity is coming be it next year or in a hundred. Its influence is there to be harnessed and utilised. Rather I view it as cosmic winds to fill the sails of freedom and carry those with the courage to embark to new places and fresh realities far out in the universe. Along the way the Star Fraction will shoot up the border guards and sabotage the state machinery denying escape to a captive population. We will win wars and lose them, but ultimately as I said: Time is on our side.
You need to lay off the blue pills Jader. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.23 17:54:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Invelious You need to lay off the blue pills Jader.
You need to stick to spamming the standings thread. This one clearly goes right over your little 24th Crusader head.
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Tatsue Nuko
Freecaptains' Union
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Posted - 2009.07.23 18:45:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara The problem is that Capsuleers are a very small percentage of the population. We are not the end-all and be-all of existance. For every one of us there are perhaps billions "still jailed to a baseline existence".
All the more reason to tear down the reactionary structures and ideologies that hold said people in that existance. All the more reason to continue developing both the technologies and evolving the social structures that are the natural offspring of those technologies.
One day there will be no true mortality among humanity. Why waylay the prospects of that future because we are not quite there yet?
Originally by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara Cloning technology is expensive. People live their lives, people die, people learn and unlearn. More importantly, people abuse and misuse the technology you and your fellows see as salvation
Your problem would appear to be that your thinking is locked to the present tense. Reality left you behind a Planck Time ago.
Originally by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara The problem is that it cannot be applied to a large population.
It is already applied to a large population.
Originally by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara The problem is that your viewpoint is skewed towards the viewpoint that we, as a whole, seek a balance with those around us.
No. You should read what I actually say. My whole viewpoint is based on the fact that whatever I do, I cannot do anything beyond material damage to other transhumans. The worst I can do to an opponent is to cause inconvenience. Maybe an economic setback.
For this reason, I can only rule by fear to the extent that said transhumans remain conditioned to accept that emotion as a cause for action - or cause for absence of action. That is: the only thing that allows rule over another is that said other person is either stupid, uneducated, or just too indoctrinated with outdated dogma from their previous baseline existance to think that my "threat" actually means something.
If you have practical immortality, there is no reason to place your momentary life above your principles. For this reason, threats and force become worthless.
So, in fact, my viewpoint is not based on any assumption that we seek balance with our society. It is based on the simple fact that the only people my own sadistic self is able to force my will upon is those that have not yet understood that I can do them no harm that is worth mentioning.
This is the fundamental problem with any measure of propagating the revolution through military means. It is impossible to cause anything beyond temporary fiscal harm against one's ideological, philosophical and political opponents.
Originally by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara The propagation of technology and information simply gives those with power - any kind of power - more venue for control if used properly.
Only against those that do not share said technology and information. Which is the entire point. |
Tatsue Nuko
Freecaptains' Union
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Posted - 2009.07.23 18:47:00 -
[249]
Originally by: "Jade Constantine" Break their monopoly (as we have in the Star Fraction) and you'll find it can be given as a gift and friendly service to comrades-at-arms and fellow revolutionaries. There are no baseline mortals in our strike teams Nikilaiki Ruutarhara.
Fellow comrades-at-arms and revolutionaries first have to be able to take the step towards being able to use said technology. If you have managed to refine the technology to the point to it being universally applicable to all baseline humans, I would expect the proliferation to be immediately obvious. As for no baselines in your strike teams: have you achieved sufficient automation to ensure no crew necessities beyond the capsuleers? Would be another thing worth proliferating as a service to the cause.
Originally by: "Jade Constantine" Where Tatsue is deeply wrong is in her belief that she is her own revolution and solipsist NBSI self-delusion is anything other than a bitter trap.
Where you are wrong is your assumption that you can effectuate any change against other transhumans when the best you can cause them is momentary financial discomfort.
As for revolution... I am my own revolution. This is an easily observable fact: I can only be caused financial harm. There does remain an extremely remote possibility of causing simultaneous damage to all my bodies, all my sleeping clones and all such facilities storing myself as to cause a permanent stop to my continuation, but that is the finer point of "practical" immortality. Of course, I invite everyone that wishes to try - it would be a fine challenge if the individual or organization are of some resources, and one that I would probably gain immensely from through the experience.
Simply through living in that reality that I have won for myself, I have performed a successful revolution - as have you, and everyone else here.
Yet some of us seem to still delude ourselves that we can inflict sufficient harm against our peers that we can change their principles, which is folly. |
Tomahawk Bliss
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.23 19:29:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Tatsue Nuko
Yet some of us seem to still delude ourselves that we can inflict sufficient harm against our peers that we can change their principles, which is folly.
in my opinion...
With actions and deeds one can sway the mind and opinions of peers. If one can change the mind of a capsuleer, one has caused a revolution.
Isk damage is irrelevant unless the one being damaged is so weak as to let such a temporal matter effect their course of action.
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Tatsue Nuko
Freecaptains' Union
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Posted - 2009.07.23 19:43:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss With actions and deeds one can sway the mind and opinions of peers. If one can change the mind of a capsuleer, one has caused a revolution.
You'll note that I have not contradicted this.
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss Isk damage is irrelevant unless the one being damaged is so weak as to let such a temporal matter effect their course of action.
The Kimotoro Directive was completely and utterly destroyed by the Star Fraction, as you may recall witnessing.
How many of those militarily destroyed in that conflict are now part of an equivalent organization to the Star Fraction? Several are part of Stimulus and the Rote Kapelle, but it would seem that those do not count. So... What track record does the method of fiscal damage have in the quest to persuade? I remember, from my own then directorship in the alliance, the amount of recruits gained from that campaign of force. A campaign and method that from all appearances has persisted from then on - and yet the membership strength of the organization remains stagnant.
These actions and deeds are themselves perfect examples of the foundation for my argument. |
Tomahawk Bliss
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.23 19:48:00 -
[252]
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, just adding my 2 cents.
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Tatsue Nuko
Freecaptains' Union
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Posted - 2009.07.23 20:06:00 -
[253]
If you start with X, and after Y amount of time still have ~X, your argument is made moot.
However, that particular point has been made and I am not particularly interested in pursuing it longer than necessary unless forced. I do however want to highlight the fact that you are painting it in a very disingenous manner and that you most likely do have full access to the facts of the matter and should be finding better arguments. |
Tomahawk Bliss
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.23 20:21:00 -
[254]
DonĘt look for insults where none were intended |
Tatsue Nuko
Freecaptains' Union
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Posted - 2009.07.23 20:38:00 -
[255]
Tomahawk, I do not perceive myself insulted by you and have not indicated anything even remotely like that. |
Tomahawk Bliss
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.23 20:47:00 -
[256]
Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 23/07/2009 20:48:37 my mistake, I read your comments as overly *****ly. sorry.
Edit: stupid filter...that was NOT a foul word. |
Ilissa Ruutarhara
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Posted - 2009.07.24 03:07:00 -
[257]
Let as agree that we disagree on the use of emotion. You misunderstand my view, but you bring up a more important point that I would like to focus on.
Originally by: Jade Constantine You speak in closing from the suggestion that we anarchists will create the singularity. I do not see it this way.
Oh, you do not understand my words. But let us continue;
Quote: The singularity is coming be it next year or in a hundred. Its influence is there to be harnessed and utilised. Rather I view it as cosmic winds to fill the sails of freedom and carry those with the courage to embark to new places and fresh realities far out in the universe.
I believe we have different understandings of what a singularity is.
Quote: Along the way the Star Fraction will shoot up the border guards and sabotage the state machinery denying escape to a captive population.
As I have said before, I see your viewpoint. I believe it is needed. The only problem is that you seem to be blind to the "big picture".
Quote: We will win wars and lose them, but ultimately as I said: Time is on our side.
Understand what a singularity is, my dear. Then look upon this statement, and ask yourself where things stand.
Do you see what I am doing? |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.24 13:03:00 -
[258]
Ilissa Ruutarhara. You will find your engagement with the discussion will go more smoothly if you dial down the sneering air of faux-superiority on your conversational emulation software.
As for the rest, we do have different understandings of what the coming technological singularity will mean to New Eden. I can see you are focused on the hypothesis of emergent super intelligence/machine-sentient evolution - that is your preference but not mine. It is possible your singularity will bring a threat to our personal freedom and individuality. But let's not declare the next war before we've fought the current one.
As for the broader points of discussion elsewhere.
It's an incorrect assumption that the Star Fraction is all about convincing people to change their minds and converting from their nationalist causes to become aspirant freespacers. Some people will not change, some are broken in mind, some are fuelled by the desire "to rule", "to dominate" to establish hierarchies and maintain the status quo above all.
We would waste our time and energy trying to persuade 24th Crusaders of the regressive nature of their cause. In these cases we influence the environment by reducing their starships to rapidly expanding wreckage clouds and suppressing and driving their corporations to exile and extinction while supporting ideological allies in their those aims calculated to further the Star Fraction agenda and the broader freespace movement.
We can persuade a farmstead to flourish by shooting the wolves. Better yet we can teach the farmers to shoot their own wolves. Only a great fool thinks to civilize the wolves through civilized debate while they are trying to eat you!
And why engage a prison camp guard in ideological debate when it is simpler and more efficient to shoot him in the face with a high velocity railgun slug in order to release a group of political prisoners far more inclined to discuss the progressive future of mankind with open hearts and questing minds? Life is full of imperfect choices - we do the best we can.
This is the mistake many Amarrian nationalists make in their various screeds and holo-pamphlets here. Why would we feel obliged to debate with them when the more direct and useful course is to annihilate them in space and open the discussion to a broader range of minds more suited to the freespace message?
Revolution is about practicality as well as idealism. It is all very well to say "I am my own revolution" - but to what end? It is not solely about inflicting sufficient harm to "peers" (enemies) to change their principles - but to remove their ability to suppress the freedoms and principles of others.
Yes of course, there are exceptions to this. Star Fraction has traditionally done very well in the persuasion of ideological foes and many of our greatest comrades and allies have come across from regressive foundations to shine as free captains. But this is not (and never should be) the whole of the ambition. New Eden is a universe of enslaved ideas and sentience beaten down by imperialist dogma. We need bullets and bombs as well as good arguments because even the villains are immortal in the sphere of posthumanity and the persistence of bad-ideas a plague of memetic proportions.
As for the question of membership strength. Star Fraction today is stronger than it has ever been in its history. Better equipped, better focused and operating in close association with ideological allies in the most vital cause for free-space radicalism in the cluster. Whereas in the past we suffered bouts of malaise and dissolution when some of our number felt the throws of NBSI-psychosis pressing on their conscience, these days we are finally free of that taint and by far the better for it.
Any power-worshipping sect of crypto-fascist hierarchs with any doubt of the Star Fraction's significant and growing capability is very welcome to test us. The Black Plan awaits!
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.24 13:40:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Ilissa Ruutarhara. You will find your engagement with the discussion will go more smoothly if you dial down the sneering air of faux-superiority on your conversational emulation software.
Perhaps you should try taking your own advice.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Caldari Infection Vector
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Posted - 2009.07.24 14:08:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Ilissa Ruutarhara. You will find your engagement with the discussion will go more smoothly if you dial down the sneering air of faux-superiority on your conversational emulation software.
Excellent, adaptive and inquisitive. Sadly, "faux-superiority" is the only way I can feel superior.
I am joking of course. Your point however is accepted, and as you have shown me courtesy it shall be shown in kind.
Quote: As for the rest, we do have different understandings of what the coming technological singularity will mean to New Eden. I can see you are focused on the hypothesis of emergent super intelligence/machine-sentient evolution - that is your preference but not mine. It is possible your singularity will bring a threat to our personal freedom and individuality. But let's not declare the next war before we've fought the current one.
Ah, actually it seems we have similar ideas. Still, it seems that our short term goals do have significant variance. I do however feel that your ideals and your goals are needed. That does not mean I do not feel it should be challenged, honed. Your arguments are becoming more informative and perhaps more persuasive.
That is where you shine, where Star Fraction inspires. Not in the arguments with those whom you know will not change. I have further points, but I am satisfied for now.
Thank you.
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.24 14:10:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Jade Constantine Ilissa Ruutarhara. You will find your engagement with the discussion will go more smoothly if you dial down the sneering air of faux-superiority on your conversational emulation software.
Perhaps you should try taking your own advice.
Rodj Blake telling someone to stop acting superior?
Oh the Irony.
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