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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.07 17:54:00 -
[511]
Originally by: Rip Minner
The point is real balance means making all weapon systems and ships the same.
Not really as you can give differant weapons str in areas that others are weak as this will allow differances and balance.
At the moment the problem is that there is no reason/benifit to use blaster BS over laser BS in gang combat RR or not....even at blaster optimal.
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To mare
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Posted - 2009.06.07 18:02:00 -
[512]
Originally by: Beverly Sparks A tracking buff is only one proposal to fixing the weapons imbalance. It is equally viable to nerf laser tracking and damage. Because surely through reasoning, pulse lasers are working too well versus frigates at their optimal (~90km with scorch).
i agree with you that something need to be done for balance sake
but only the apoc with tracking comp can get 90km with scorch. scorch L have a 45 km optimal
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Electric Universe
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.06.07 18:11:00 -
[513]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 07/06/2009 18:17:17
Originally by: Beverly Sparks A tracking buff is only one proposal to fixing the weapons imbalance.
It's not, because a tracking buff makes many other big problems.
Do you want those problems back in EVE?.
One of them are going against the web nerf. And because of that, you wont see a tracking boost to Blasters EVER. Just keep dreaming about it.
The only thing i can support is a 5% DPS boost max to Large Blasters ONLY if you nerf the tracking on Lasers back to how they was before the Lasers got the tracking boost some years ago.
I can't go higher than 5% DPS boost on Blasters, because if we takes it any higher it will go against the HP boost to all ships some years ago.
You know, the Blasters is meant to be the absolute highest DPS dealing weapons in EVE, not the highest tracking weapons in EVE. Large Blasters only have very high tracking because of the Mega.
Autocannons is the weapons that have the highest tracking of all other weapons in EVE before any bonuses. |
To mare
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Posted - 2009.06.07 18:35:00 -
[514]
Originally by: Electric Universe
The only thing i can support is a 5% DPS boost max to Large Blasters ONLY if you nerf the tracking on Lasers back to how they was before the Lasers got the tracking boost some years ago.
you support a boost to blaster ONLY if it come with a nerf to laser?
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Electric Universe
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.06.07 18:39:00 -
[515]
Edited by: Electric Universe on 07/06/2009 18:41:27
Originally by: To mare
Originally by: Electric Universe
The only thing i can support is a 5% DPS boost max to Large Blasters ONLY if you nerf the tracking on Lasers back to how they was before the Lasers got the tracking boost some years ago.
you support a boost to blaster ONLY if it come with a nerf to laser?
Yes because that will make Blasters have a really great DPS advantage inside web range like it's supposed to have.
And while Lasers tracking gets nerfed then, then Lasers will be poor inside web range while it still have it's status as really nice weapon in longer distances, from 30 km up to 60 km. |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.07 18:50:00 -
[516]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 07/06/2009 18:53:42
The weapons that work at the closest range need the best tracking and while AC may have the lowest optimal they tend to work more in their falloff and at longer ranges than blasters need to.
Also a mega with max skills and 3 x T2 tracking comps loaded with tracking speed scripts cannot hit a WEBBED inty under 6km and only hits it for 1 - 13dps from 6-10km.
It also made very little differance against a webbed vaga (base speed 3441ms, webbed speed 1373ms).
So anybody saying that a small tracking buff to blasters would break the game ect is obviously clueless and yet again is making totally false and utterly untested claims.
ANYWAY A TRACKING BUFF IS UNIMPORTANT AS BS ARE GANG SHIPS AND IN GANG COMBAT TRACKING IS UNIMPORTANT DUE TO MULTIPLE WEBS. |
Rip Minner
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Posted - 2009.06.07 18:55:00 -
[517]
Originally by: bubbly bird
Originally by: Rip Minner
The point is real balance means making all weapon systems and ships the same.
Not really as you can give differant weapons str in areas that others are weak as this will allow differances and balance.
At the moment the problem is that there is no reason/benifit to use blaster BS over laser BS in gang combat RR or not....even at blaster optimal.
You could have got'n me with that one. If I had not seen blaster setups riping new ars-holes in gang combat RR. Just last week as I have friends in FW that use blasters to very good effect. |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.07 19:05:00 -
[518]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 07/06/2009 19:06:20
Originally by: Rip Minner
You could have got'n me with that one.
Nobody is trying to "get you" with anything, nor is this a thread for clever word play no matter how much some ppl wish it was.
This is a thread for facts.
Originally by: Rip Minner If I had not seen blaster setups riping new ars-holes in gang combat RR. Just last week as I have friends in FW that use blasters to very good effect.
Perhaps you need to understand the differance between UNBALANCED and USELESS.
The posts in this thread are clearly showing a imbalance in the BS classes of close range weapon systems but at no point have claims been made that BS blasters are utterly useless. |
Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.06.07 22:16:00 -
[519]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Well crying for a boost on Large Blasters tracking just so you can hit frigs and cruisers much better when CCP nerfed the webs some time ago JUST to prevent Large guns from hitting the frigs and cruisers good is also trolling hard.
before making wild assumptions (again), try some numbers. even a 50% boost in tracking won't make a noteworthy dps difference on the aforementioned targets. ---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Gabi Devil
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Posted - 2009.06.08 03:53:00 -
[520]
Better move this thread to Features and Ideas.
They have renamed this section and i wasted some time to find this topic. |
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Beverly Sparks
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Posted - 2009.06.08 09:55:00 -
[521]
Originally by: bubbly bird Nobody is trying to "get you" with anything, nor is this a thread for clever word play no matter how much some ppl wish it was.
I am trying to get him.
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jullll
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Posted - 2009.06.08 10:13:00 -
[522]
Lasers EAT A LOT OF CAPACITOR and DAMAGE TYPE CAN T BE CHANGED. Try to fit any amarr ship with pulse + multifreq + repairer cap stable, good luck. Neut, or track disrupt an amarr boat and he's totaly ****ed.
Stop posting your DPS stats without tacking in consideration the whole picture.
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Yankunytjatjara
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:07:00 -
[523]
Yeah, also most damage ships have a stupid raise to RoF which adds to the capacitor expense, so the two bonus of the ship - capacitor use and rof - fight against each other. That's just stupid. If you nerf lasers dps or tracking by 5% you drop the cap use by 50% (why the difference? because all the morons in this thread keep saying that cap use is not important LOL)
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Yankunytjatjara
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:11:00 -
[524]
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara Yeah, also most damage ships have a stupid raise to RoF which adds to the capacitor expense, so the two bonus of the ship - capacitor use and rof - fight against each other. That's just stupid. If you nerf lasers dps or tracking by 5% you drop the cap use by 50% (why the difference? because all the morons in this thread keep saying that cap use is not important LOL)
...and substitute the moronic 10% to cap uses to something useful (unrelated to dps) on every ship. Oh how I'd like the omen to get a MWD cap use bonus for example. Or the armageddon an active tank bonus. Or the punisher a damage bonus ffs, its best weapons are autocannons!!!
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:17:00 -
[525]
Originally by: jullll Lasers EAT A LOT OF CAPACITOR and DAMAGE TYPE CAN T BE CHANGED.
Blasters use cap and blaster ships need to mwd a lot to get into range, blasters dmg also cannot be changed.
Originally by: jullll Try to fit any amarr ship with pulse + multifreq + repairer cap stable, good luck.
Try to fit a gallente ship with blasters + AM + repairer + mwd cap stable, good luck.
Originally by: jullll Neut, or track disrupt an amarr boat and he's totaly ****ed.
Neut, or track disrupt an BLASTER boat and he's totaly ****ed.
Originally by: jullll Stop posting your DPS stats without tacking in consideration the whole picture.
Stop posting your emo fueled ranting about things other races also suffer from.
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Yankunytjatjara
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:25:00 -
[526]
Originally by: bubbly bird Neut, or track disrupt an BLASTER boat and he's totaly ****ed.
wrong, better tracking is better, and mids for webs too
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Resalan
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:38:00 -
[527]
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara Yeah, also most damage ships have a stupid raise to RoF which adds to the capacitor expense, so the two bonus of the ship - capacitor use and rof - fight against each other. That's just stupid. If you nerf lasers dps or tracking by 5% you drop the cap use by 50% (why the difference? because all the morons in this thread keep saying that cap use is not important LOL)
...and substitute the moronic 10% to cap uses to something useful (unrelated to dps) on every ship. Oh how I'd like the omen to get a MWD cap use bonus for example. Or the armageddon an active tank bonus. Or the punisher a damage bonus ffs, its best weapons are autocannons!!!
first you complain because the rof bonus make you use more cap and then you suggest to remove the cap usage bonus may i suggest you yo change race?
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Resalan
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:46:00 -
[528]
Originally by: jullll Lasers EAT A LOT OF CAPACITOR and DAMAGE TYPE CAN T BE CHANGED. Try to fit any amarr ship with pulse + multifreq + repairer cap stable, good luck. Neut, or track disrupt an amarr boat and he's totaly ****ed.
Stop posting your DPS stats without tacking in consideration the whole picture.
a megapulse laser with skills require 15 unit of cap to shoot a neutron blaster cannon require 13,65 unit of cap to shoot. every turret is screwed when under tracking disruptor effect amarr have the advantage of great base range so even if they hitted by 1 TD they still can hit, ac and blaster dont have this luxury. if you want to pvp cap stable ship isnt important and you go with a injector or sorry but you have no clue and you better stay docked
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Harotak
THE FINAL STAND Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.08 11:50:00 -
[529]
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara
Originally by: bubbly bird Neut, or track disrupt an BLASTER boat and he's totaly ****ed.
wrong, better tracking is better, and mids for webs too
TDs don't just disrupt tracking. Put a couple range disruption scripts in on a ship with TD bonuses and a neutron mega won't hit anything past 4-5km, not even with null. Megapulse can still hit out to 9-10km with double range disruption.
As for webs, the Abaddon has four med slots and since it doesn't need propulsion to get into range you can easily fit TWO webs on it. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.06.08 13:46:00 -
[530]
Originally by: Electric Universe
Well crying for a boost on Large Blasters tracking just so you can hit frigs and cruisers much better when CCP nerfed the webs some time ago JUST to prevent Large guns from hitting the frigs and cruisers good is also trolling hard.
Maybe your not trolling all of us players (well your trolling me though), but your absolutely trolling and insulting CCP by that.
Just to let you know.
Please point to when I asked for large blasters, to be able to hit frigs and cruisers. Don't lie about what I request for.
Also please point to where CCP said the web nerf, was to stop large guns hitting frigs and cruisers. You'll find it was due to everything, yes everything, being screwed once they got webbed at 90%. I believe the whole frig and cruiser idea, you seem stuck on atm, is due to you losing the argument. It's yet another poor attempt, at derailing this thread.
Even your figures in this thread, point to the 1% damage that blasters have over lasers, plus Deva Blackfire has stated in this thread, that blasters and lasers in RR.....
Originally by: Deva Blackfire are pretty comparable damage wise.
Being as I was not even replying to you, can you explain how I was trolling you? How the hell was I trolling CCP? I'm not even sure what to make of that statement tbh.
I want balance within the weapon system, which includes a boost to blasters, amongst other things, it's just a case of finding the correct figures.
Just to let you know.
Regards Mag's |
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.08 13:47:00 -
[531]
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara
Originally by: bubbly bird Neut, or track disrupt an BLASTER boat and he's totaly ****ed.
wrong, better tracking is better
Wrong better tracking is only better if it is better by a large enough margin
And their is not a large enough margin to make any differance.
As well as the fact that a mega being hit with a optimal scripted TD has its turret range reduced to 4.2km optimal +5.8km falloff while the abaddon with scorch still has a 17km optimal and 3.7km falloff.
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara and mids for webs too
Mega slot layout 8, 4, 7. Abad slot layout 8, 4, 7.
Not only that but BS are gang ships so multiple webs will make up for any ship that does not fit one.
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Beverly Sparks
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Posted - 2009.06.08 14:14:00 -
[532]
Originally by: jullll Lasers EAT A LOT OF CAPACITOR and DAMAGE TYPE CAN T BE CHANGED. Try to fit any amarr ship with pulse + multifreq + repairer cap stable, good luck. Neut, or track disrupt an amarr boat and he's totaly ****ed.
Stop posting your DPS stats without tacking in consideration the whole picture.
Are you talking about PvE?
I have Minmatar ships that aren't cap stable... so what? |
Electric Universe
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.06.08 14:38:00 -
[533]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Electric Universe Well crying for a boost on Large Blasters tracking just so you can hit frigs and cruisers much better when CCP nerfed the webs some time ago JUST to prevent Large guns from hitting the frigs and cruisers good is also trolling hard.
Maybe your not trolling all of us players (well your trolling me though), but your absolutely trolling and insulting CCP by that.
Just to let you know.
Please point to when I asked for large blasters, to be able to hit frigs and cruisers. Don't lie about what I request for.
Also please point to where CCP said the web nerf, was to stop large guns hitting frigs and cruisers. You'll find it was due to everything, yes everything, being screwed once they got webbed at 90%. I believe the whole frig and cruiser idea, you seem stuck on atm, is due to you losing the argument. It's yet another poor attempt, at derailing this thread.
Even your figures in this thread, point to the 1% damage that blasters have over lasers, plus Deva has stated in this thread, that blasters and lasers in RR.....
Originally by: Deva Blackfire are pretty comparable damage wise.
Being as I was not even replying to you, can you explain how I was trolling you? How the hell was I trolling CCP? I'm not even sure what to make of that statement tbh.
I want balance within the weapon system, which includes a boost to blasters, amongst other things, it's just a case of finding the correct figures.
Just to let you know.
I wasn't pointing what i said longer up just to you.
Just so you know.
Anyways. CCP have said many times in posts about webbers that the web nerf was to prevent Large guns to hit frigs and cruisers so easily. They made that change so Large guns is a main weapon to use against other ships with Large guns fitted.
If you want to hit smaller ships, then you have to use other smaller ships or friends with smaller ships that can take care of those smaller ships.
Yes, it was because frigs and cruisers was an instadeath once they was in web range to a BS with a webber fitted. So CCP nerfed the webs to let them have a chance to fight BS'es.
So after that, CCP said it was to prevent BS'es for example to instakill frigs and cruisers.
I don't suck at this frig and cruiser idea. I'm good enough to kill they easily even in a Blaster Mega. It's very easy if you just have a higher IQ than a monkey. And if you know what your doing and know what PVP is.
But sadly, there are many in this topic that don't have the experience to handle frigs and cruisers in a BS.
So i think it's others in this topic that is losing the argument, because they sucks at PVP.
LOL, and your telling me that i'm doing yet another poor attempt, at derailing this thread. LOL, what are you doing now Mr. Smartypants?.
Yes i have told that a Pulse Geddon and a Blaster Mega is both pretty good in RR gangs. If you haven't seen what i have been talking about, then it's the Abaddon. Abaddon isn't a ship i would use in RR gangs. I would use a Geddon any days before an Abaddon in RR gangs when it's about Amarr ships. But mainly a Blaster Mega over all other ships.
Again, i was not pointing my reply before this directly to you.
Your most likely trolling / insulting CCP when you cry for a boost on a thing that CCP took away from the game. Yes CCP took the thing that you can instakill frigs and cruisers in a BS away from EVE.
CCP don't nerf a thing and then boost something again because some noobs can't handle the new changes and are crying to get that thing back again.
Yes i want balance to with the weapons, not an instakill machine that will be FOTY / OP.
So that's the reason i said boost the DPS on Blasters by 5% ONLY if you nerf the tracking on Lasers to how they was before they got the tracking boost some years ago.
By that, the Blasters will get a huge DPS advantage inside web range while Lasers will still be nice at longer distances from 30 to 60 km where they are meant to be good.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.06.08 14:48:00 -
[534]
Originally by: Electric Universe Mr. Smartypants.....
I have absolutely no idea what you are ranting on about in that reply, you're becoming less understandable with each post.
Originally by: Electric Universe I wasn't pointing what i said longer up just to you.
What?
Regards Mag's |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:03:00 -
[535]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 08/06/2009 15:06:32
Originally by: Electric Universe
I don't suck at this frig and cruiser idea. I'm good enough to kill they easily even in a Blaster Mega. It's very easy if you just have a higher IQ than a monkey. And if you know what your doing and know what PVP is.
But sadly, there are many in this topic that don't have the experience to handle frigs and cruisers in a BS.
Please post a link to a killboard with you in a mega soloing frigs and cruisers.
Originally by: Electric Universe
So that's the reason i said boost the DPS on Blasters by 5% ONLY.
By that, the Blasters will get a huge DPS advantage inside web range.
Blaster mega = 935 turret dps with caldari navy AM and 3 x mag stabs so a 5% dps boost = 46.75 dps boost.......hardly huge imho especially when you consider that most mega fits do not use 3 x mag stabs.
Originally by: Electric Universe If you nerf the tracking on Lasers to how they was before they got the tracking boost some years ago while Lasers will still be nice at longer distances from 30 to 60 km where they are meant to be good.
A tracking nerf is a waste of time as multiple webs in gang combat let alone the fact that in RR gangs you cannot orbit hostile ships makes tracking unimportant. |
Electric Universe
The Choir
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:23:00 -
[536]
Originally by: bubbly bird Edited by: bubbly bird on 08/06/2009 15:06:32
Originally by: Electric Universe
I don't suck at this frig and cruiser idea. I'm good enough to kill they easily even in a Blaster Mega. It's very easy if you just have a higher IQ than a monkey. And if you know what your doing and know what PVP is.
But sadly, there are many in this topic that don't have the experience to handle frigs and cruisers in a BS.
Please post a link to a killboard with you in a mega soloing frigs and cruisers.
Originally by: Electric Universe
So that's the reason i said boost the DPS on Blasters by 5% ONLY.
By that, the Blasters will get a huge DPS advantage inside web range.
Blaster mega = 935 turret dps with caldari navy AM and 3 x mag stabs so a 5% dps boost = 46.75 dps boost.......hardly huge imho especially when you consider that most mega fits do not use 3 x mag stabs.
Originally by: Electric Universe If you nerf the tracking on Lasers to how they was before they got the tracking boost some years ago while Lasers will still be nice at longer distances from 30 to 60 km where they are meant to be good.
A tracking nerf is a waste of time as multiple webs in gang combat let alone the fact that in RR gangs you cannot orbit hostile ships makes tracking unimportant.
Stop thinking that RR gangs is the only thing in PVP in EVE today.
EVE is a game where you can do many many different PVP styles. So a change like i told longer up would help those who doesn't do RR gangs alot. |
bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:32:00 -
[537]
Edited by: bubbly bird on 08/06/2009 15:32:22
Originally by: Electric Universe EVE is a game where you can do many many different PVP styles. So a change like i told longer up would help those who doesn't do RR gangs alot.
RR or not any gang with 2 webs will make a tracking nerf pointless.
Originally by: Electric Universe
I don't suck at this frig and cruiser idea. I'm good enough to kill they easily even in a Blaster Mega. It's very easy if you just have a higher IQ than a monkey. And if you know what your doing and know what PVP is.
But sadly, there are many in this topic that don't have the experience to handle frigs and cruisers in a BS.
Please post a link to a killboard with you in a mega soloing frigs and cruisers. |
Yankunytjatjara
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:34:00 -
[538]
Originally by: bubbly bird Wrong better tracking is only better if it is better by a large enough margin
LOL, no, better is better; you're the troll with the highest QI in the thread so here's the explanation: we're talking about fine-tuning so large enough margin means 5% rather than 50%.
Originally by: bubbly bird As well as the fact that a mega being hit with a optimal scripted TD has its turret range reduced to 4.2km optimal +5.8km falloff (NULL) while the abaddon still has a 17km optimal and 3.7km falloff (scorch).
<<better tracking is still better tracking dude, trac x range = K
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara and mids for webs too
Mega slot layout 8, 4, 7. Abad slot layout 8, 4, 7.
Not only that but BS are gang ships so multiple webs will make up for any ship like maybe a geddon that chooses not to fit one.
Lol this is the best one. "chooses not to fit one". dude it has no mid. the gallente can choose, webs, track comps, cap boosters, you name it ffs! All the "problems" you've been whining about all have easy solutions with that degree of choice, and useful ship bonuses.
The amarr are shafted in so many ways that comparing the weapons only is just trolling.
Trolls, I sincerely hope that your trolling has made this toilet of a thread unreadable by the devs. |
Yankunytjatjara
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:39:00 -
[539]
Originally by: Harotak As for webs, the Abaddon has four med slots and since it doesn't need propulsion to get into range you can easily fit TWO webs on it.
LOLmail!
Originally by: Resalan first you complain because the rof bonus make you use more cap and then you suggest to remove the cap usage bonus may i suggest you yo change race?
1/10 troll, I'm not an english mother language and I have better comprehension than yours
Originally by: Resalan a megapulse laser with skills require 15 unit of cap to shoot a neutron blaster cannon require 13,65 unit of cap to shoot. every turret is screwed when under tracking disruptor effect amarr have the advantage of great base range so even if they hitted by 1 TD they still can hit, ac and blaster dont have this luxury. if you want to pvp cap stable ship isnt important and you go with a injector or sorry but you have no clue and you better stay docked
dude it's called neut. And read above about the rest.
So trolls, do you want to trade the gallente typical tracking bonus for the amarr typical cap use one? Since you all say that tracking and cap are not relevant, that should be no problem right. Trolls.
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bubbly bird
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Posted - 2009.06.08 15:42:00 -
[540]
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara LOL, no, better is better; you're the troll with the highest QI in the thread so here's the explanation: we're talking about fine-tuning so large enough margin means 5% rather than 50%.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara <<better tracking is still better tracking dude, tracks x range = K
I suggest you learn the basics as scorch at 17+3.7km tracks better than null at 4.2+5.8km.
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara
Lol this is the best one. "chooses not to fit one". dude it has no mid.
It has 3 mids so depending on the gang setup its can have mwd/injector and a point or web.
1 less web or 1 less point in a gang is not the end of the world so stop acting like it is you fool.
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